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Thursday, November 13, 2014

[mukto-mona] Just vanished [BNP-Sthalworth Harris today]



Just vanished

M Abul Kalam Azad

Poof and he vanished. The man who enjoyed so much power and amassed so much illegal wealth during the BNP-Jamaat rule between 2001 and 2006.
And for eight years there has been no trace of Harris Chowdhury, political secretary to then prime minister Khaleda Zia and joint secretary general of the BNP.
Neither law enforcers nor his party men have any clue where the convict is. Some speculate he is hiding in India while others believe he has left India for a third country, probably a European one.
According to multiple sources in the police and intelligence agencies, Harris fled to Karimganj of Indian Assam state soon after the military-backed government took over on January 11, 2007, after months of violence centring parliamentary elections.
"Harris has some relatives in Karimganj and hid there until Awami League returned to power in 2009," said an intelligence agency official wishing anonymity.

"But Harris did not feel safe there and might have travelled to a European country," said the official, who recently went to Karimganj, Shilchar and Shillong of India for intelligence gathering.
It is said that he went to England, where he had smuggled some of his illegally earned money.
A former Jatiyatabadi Chhatra Dal leader, who had close links with Harris between 2001 and 2006, claimed that Harris had no contact with the party for a long time but he maintained communication with his family members.
"We came to know that Harris was sick and his relatives, including his brother, visited him when he was in India," said the leader.
There was even a rumour that Harris had died, but it could not be confirmed.
Joint Secretary General of BNP Rizvi Ahmed said, "We have no information about him but we have heard he is abroad."
Superintendent of Police (SP) Joydev Kumar Bhadra of Habiganj said they knew nothing about Harris. Courts had issued arrest warrants for him and asked the police to produce him before it.
Harris is among nine others who were accused in a supplementary charge sheet in the Awami League leader and former finance minister AMS Kibria murder case yesterday. Kibria was killed in a grenade attack during a rally at Baidyer Bazar in Habiganj on January 27, 2005.
The BNP leader, who bought fancy flats, cars and stashed away a large amount of money, was sentenced to different jail terms for corruption, money-laundering and keeping wildlife at home.
In a corruption case filed by the anti-corruption commission, he was jailed for 69 years.
Also an accused in the August 21 grenade attack case, Harris was just an ordinary car dealer but became a multi-millionaire in just five years through corruption and abuse of power. He made huge wealth illegally at home and abroad by helping dodgy contractors win government and private businesses.
Harris is also an accused in the Zia Charitable Trust graft case.
He started his political career in BNP by joining the party's youth front Jubo Dal during late president Ziaur Rahman's regime. He was the joint secretary general of BNP until 2009.
When Hawa Bhaban, the alternative power house of then BNP-Jamaat government, was set up in 2000, Harris was deputed there for "raising funds" for prospective election candidates of 2001.
With election money bloating his personal account, Harris moved out of his humble Shanti Nagar home into a house in posh DOHS area of the capital.
Before making his disappearing act, he stayed at a Gulshan house.
By the time the BNP-Jamaat coalition won the election in 2001, Harris became very close to BNP chief Khaleda Zia. He was appointed the political secretary to the prime minister with the rank and status of a state minister.
Investigators in 2008 found that Harris had 25 accounts with different banks. Most of those were in the names of his wife, brother, sister-in-law, sister and her son, and his former assistant.
With the exception of the bank account with the PMO branch of Sonali Bank, all other accounts were used for stashing money gained from illegal sources.
They detected that cash and properties of Harris, under other people's name in the country, was worth Tk 22.5 crore. Besides those, Harris had a house and a shopping arcade in London under different people's names.

Published: 12:01 am Friday, November 14, 2014  Last modified: 11:12 am Friday, November 14, 2014
Related:

Harris among 9 new accused

Harris Chowdhury, former premier Khaleda Zia's political secretary, and Sylhet Mayor Ariful Haque Chowdhury have been charged with the 2005 murder of f ........

http://thedailystar.net/harris-among-9-new-accused-50286



Also read:

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http://dailyalochona.blogspot.com/2012/10/mukto-mona-bnp-stalwart-harris-chodhury.html




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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions



"American mathematician A. Seindenberg has demonstrated that the Sulbasutras, the ancient Vedic mathematics, have inspired all the mathematic sciences of the antique world from Babylonia to Egypt and Greece. "Arithmetic equations from the Sulbatras were used in the observation of the triangle by the Babylonians and the theory of contraries and of inexactitude in arithmetic methods, discovered by Hindus, inspired Pythagorean mathematics", writes Seindenberg. In astronomy too, Indus were precursors: XVIIth century French astronomer Jean-Claude Bailly had already noticed that "the Hindu astronomic systems were much more ancient than those of the Greeks or even the Egyptians and the movement of stars which was calculated by the Hindus 4500 years ago, does not differ from those used today by even one minute". American Vedic specialist David Frawley has also demonstrated that the methods utilized in the building of Egyptian pyramids were also borrowed from the Hindus. "The funeral altars, for instance, he writes, which are also in the shape of pyramids, were known in the Vedic world under the name of smasana-cit"."

After this, there should be no controversy in the mind of ignorant Brahmin about the role of Vedic mathematics.
Sent from my iPad

On Nov 13, 2014, at 11:12 AM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Pythagoras was born more than 2500 years ago. I have never claimed the superiority of the Bedouin "unculture"? Why has Das so much hatred for Arab culture? Iraq is an Arab country. Iraq's contribution to civilization is well known. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 12, 2014, at 8:23 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

I don't know what Das is talking about. Have I mentioned Algebra or Bedouin in any of my recent posts? He is just showing off as usual. Pythagoras was a student of Indian math and philosophy! I have to check. Any reference please. Pythagoras was born about 4000 years ago. Right? 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2014, at 8:42 PM, Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

The guy who 'invented' algebra called the system Indian Math. Even Pythagoras had been a student of Indian Math and Philosophy. S. Chakrabarty has his mindset on the superiority of the Bedouin un culture of the Arabs. We can always pardon an ill informed Brahmin for his lack of knowledge. Can't we, Dr. Roy?

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 11, 2014, at 7:42 PM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

"I am not inclined to take pride in some thing called Vedic math."
Look, Pal, Modi's message was for the people, like you, who are ashamed to take pride of their own heritages. When I tried to remind that point, some of you started to attack me without understanding my message. Someone even accused me of 'falsification,' which turned out to be meant for 'exaggeration.'
As I said before, Indus Valley civilization is one of the oldest civilizations in the world (5000 years old). When I tried to remind that heritage, you try to find excuses to demean them. Vedic era is ~3500 years old, it has brought so much enlightenment to people in that region, which people are still making use of. But, instead of being proud of them, you are bringing Chinese, Greek, and English literatures. This was the point Modi was making.
I know, if the same talk was given by President Kalam or Mukharjee, we would not be talking about it. So, it was not the message, but the messenger, that was wrong.
Look, when someone counter comments against mine, I look forward to learn something from it; this is just waste of time talking about something that should be obvious to all of you.
Jiten Roy

 

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

 
Ancient Indian scholars or (sages if you like the word) did real research on astronomy. That is what we need to talk about. I am not inclined to take pride in some thing called Vedic math. 
Sent from my iPhone



On Nov 10, 2014, at 6:12 AM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Well, Dr. Roy, I can accept that the imaginations of the Vedic stories were richer than their time. But when you suggest, for example, that "in-depth knowledge of astronomy ...... are all in the scriptural books", I find it more than exaggeration; it is falsification. BTW: Did Ganesh's body try to reject the elephant's head, as we see in modern transplant cases; or there was no such problem due to his mother's blessings? Now, don't get me wrong; I have been weak enough to think that the blessings of my parents did/could bring good things in my life; but I am not weak enough to think that such blessings by themselves could change established science.

Talking about some people being ahead of their time, I am willing to accept that Mohammad also was one such human. The problem that I see with the Muslims now is that too many of them proclaim his messages to be adequate for today's world.

Sukhamaya Bain

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 11/9/14, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, November 9, 2014, 10:02 PM

Dr. Bain, the problem with your
comments, most of the time,
is that you think out of context. Here, you
are judging Vedic stories against
modern science fiction stories. Vedic stories were at least
a few thousand
years old. How much
scientific sophistication do you expect from the people in
that era?  Did you
give a thought where rest of the world was when Vedic
stories were written?

When you read something from a thousand
year old
books, you need to think with reference to that era. Just
trashing them without careful consideration, you will
do injustice to those books.  

Do you know how Ganesh got his elephant
head? If
you do, you can compare that to the modern day
face-transplant. Many Vedic stories
deal with space-travel and space-warfare. If I remember
correctly, Megnad used to fight from behind the cloud. Have
you thought about how did those
fictional ideas came to them in those days? Now, compare the
standard of the Vedic people
with that of the people in the rest of the world in those
days. Only then, you will
realize how sophisticated they were. You found some falsifications in my
comments.  What are those false statements? If you tell
them, may be I can correct myself.

Jiten Roy

From: "Sukhamaya
Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]"
<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To:
mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November
9, 2014 7:04 PM
Subject: Re:
[mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

Here are
my comments on the quoted comments (below) by Dr. Jiten
Roy.

I see too much of conjecture, exaggeration, imagination and
falsification in Dr. Roy's comments. With the same kinds
of practice, religious people of other shades have been
making the claims that all kinds of knowledge can be found
in their religious books. The way I see them, the stories in
the Hindu scriptures are like poor quality science fictions,
based upon imagination. Compared to those, many of the
modern science fictions are based upon a good deal of
methodical thoughts, and upon technologies that actually
have been proven to work. That is why a lot of real science
and technology have their roots in science fictions.

BTW: As for Modi/BJP being a threat to secularism, people
need to realize that Modi/BJP is not like the fools/fanatics
that throw stones at the devil after praying to their God.
Even with their oxymoron of Hindutwa, they are a lot more
rational people than those who believe in the dogmatic
religions.

Sukhamaya Bain

==============================================================

From:

"Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]"

<


__._,_.___

Posted by: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions



Let me change my mind here and make a couple of more comments, due to the misunderstanding of Dr. Roy.
 
I have not actually trashed the mythical and fictional stories of any religious book. I not only see their literary values, I do recognize that many of them were ahead of their time and place in terms of thoughts/imaginations/wisdom. My problem is with today's people claiming them to have in-depth or complete knowledge/understanding of science/technology, to be complete/perfect code of life, to be worth emulating, etc.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
================================================


On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 7:33 PM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Dr. Bain, there is a difference between giving due credit to some mythic/fictional literatures and believing in them as facts. Religious people tend to believe those fictional stories as facts, and educated people have the responsibility to help them be aware of their misunderstanding. Just bad mouthing them as stupid people will not do the job.
Also, educated people should know that mythic/fictional stories have literary value and usefulness in our lives. Trashing those literature as rubbish, as you do, will not make you any superior to those religious bigots. This is not the way you can remove prejudice from religious peoples' minds. As an educated people, your responsibility is to give them proper knowledge, not hatred. 
Dr. Bain, how can I or you trash something that we have not much knowledge of? With my limited exposures, I have learned that - those mythic literatures are Indian treasures, containing ocean of knowledge. Trashing them as rubbish will rather make us stupid.   
Jiten Roy

 
From: "Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

 
Let me make my final comments on this thread. The claim that the Hindu religious books have in-depth knowledge of astronomy is worse than exaggeration. It is false. Those books have no in-depth or systematic knowledge. They have wild imaginations.
 
It is wrong for educated people like us to give too much credit to myths and wild imaginations from religious books, even when we agree that imaginations are needed for real innovations. People like us need to work on removing the brainwash from religious people who falsely and exaggeratedly give too much credit to what I call "primitive wisdom" in their respective religious books, and in the process stay in their narrow cocoons of stupidity and hatred, making the world a miserable place to live in.
 
SuBain
 
========================================================================


On Tuesday, November 11, 2014 8:42 AM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
"I am not inclined to take pride in some thing called Vedic math."
Look, Pal, Modi's message was for the people, like you, who are ashamed to take pride of their own heritages. When I tried to remind that point, some of you started to attack me without understanding my message. Someone even accused me of 'falsification,' which turned out to be meant for 'exaggeration.'
As I said before, Indus Valley civilization is one of the oldest civilizations in the world (5000 years old). When I tried to remind that heritage, you try to find excuses to demean them. Vedic era is ~3500 years old, it has brought so much enlightenment to people in that region, which people are still making use of. But, instead of being proud of them, you are bringing Chinese, Greek, and English literatures. This was the point Modi was making.
I know, if the same talk was given by President Kalam or Mukharjee, we would not be talking about it. So, it was not the message, but the messenger, that was wrong.
Look, when someone counter comments against mine, I look forward to learn something from it; this is just waste of time talking about something that should be obvious to all of you.
Jiten Roy

 
From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

 
Ancient Indian scholars or (sages if you like the word) did real research on astronomy. That is what we need to talk about. I am not inclined to take pride in some thing called Vedic math. 
Sent from my iPhone



On Nov 10, 2014, at 6:12 AM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Well, Dr. Roy, I can accept that the imaginations of the Vedic stories were richer than their time. But when you suggest, for example, that "in-depth knowledge of astronomy ...... are all in the scriptural books", I find it more than exaggeration; it is falsification. BTW: Did Ganesh's body try to reject the elephant's head, as we see in modern transplant cases; or there was no such problem due to his mother's blessings? Now, don't get me wrong; I have been weak enough to think that the blessings of my parents did/could bring good things in my life; but I am not weak enough to think that such blessings by themselves could change established science.

Talking about some people being ahead of their time, I am willing to accept that Mohammad also was one such human. The problem that I see with the Muslims now is that too many of them proclaim his messages to be adequate for today's world.

Sukhamaya Bain

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 11/9/14, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, November 9, 2014, 10:02 PM

Dr. Bain, the problem with your
comments, most of the time,
is that you think out of context. Here, you
are judging Vedic stories against
modern science fiction stories. Vedic stories were at least
a few thousand
years old. How much
scientific sophistication do you expect from the people in
that era?  Did you
give a thought where rest of the world was when Vedic
stories were written?

When you read something from a thousand
year old
books, you need to think with reference to that era. Just
trashing them without careful consideration, you will
do injustice to those books.  

Do you know how Ganesh got his elephant
head? If
you do, you can compare that to the modern day
face-transplant. Many Vedic stories
deal with space-travel and space-warfare. If I remember
correctly, Megnad used to fight from behind the cloud. Have
you thought about how did those
fictional ideas came to them in those days? Now, compare the
standard of the Vedic people
with that of the people in the rest of the world in those
days. Only then, you will
realize how sophisticated they were. You found some falsifications in my
comments.  What are those false statements? If you tell
them, may be I can correct myself.

Jiten Roy

From: "Sukhamaya
Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]"
<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To:
mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November
9, 2014 7:04 PM
Subject: Re:
[mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

Here are
my comments on the quoted comments (below) by Dr. Jiten
Roy.

I see too much of conjecture, exaggeration, imagination and
falsification in Dr. Roy's comments. With the same kinds
of practice, religious people of other shades have been
making the claims that all kinds of knowledge can be found
in their religious books. The way I see them, the stories in
the Hindu scriptures are like poor quality science fictions,
based upon imagination. Compared to those, many of the
modern science fictions are based upon a good deal of
methodical thoughts, and upon technologies that actually
have been proven to work. That is why a lot of real science
and technology have their roots in science fictions.

BTW: As for Modi/BJP being a threat to secularism, people
need to realize that Modi/BJP is not like the fools/fanatics
that throw stones at the devil after praying to their God.
Even with their oxymoron of Hindutwa, they are a lot more
rational people than those who believe in the dogmatic
religions.

Sukhamaya Bain

==============================================================

From:

"Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]"

<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>

To:

"mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com"

<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>

Sent:

Saturday, 8 November 2014, 22:37

..........................."Indian civilization, in the
Vedic era, was much advanced than any other in the world.
Descriptions of inter-galactic movement through space-ship,
warfare with the most advanced weapons (airplanes, rockets,
missiles, etc.), in-depth knowledge of astronomy, and
astrology are all in the scriptural books, which depicted
the advancements of knowledge in those
days."...............................................











__._,_.___

Posted by: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions



As usual, Chakrabarty flaunts his ignorance. Iraq is predominantly Arab today. It was Assyrian before Arab conquest, and in its glorious days of Sumerian civilization, it was Phoenician. In the Abbasid regime, the culture was essentially Persian.

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 13, 2014, at 11:12 AM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Pythagoras was born more than 2500 years ago. I have never claimed the superiority of the Bedouin "unculture"? Why has Das so much hatred for Arab culture? Iraq is an Arab country. Iraq's contribution to civilization is well known. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 12, 2014, at 8:23 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

I don't know what Das is talking about. Have I mentioned Algebra or Bedouin in any of my recent posts? He is just showing off as usual. Pythagoras was a student of Indian math and philosophy! I have to check. Any reference please. Pythagoras was born about 4000 years ago. Right? 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2014, at 8:42 PM, Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

The guy who 'invented' algebra called the system Indian Math. Even Pythagoras had been a student of Indian Math and Philosophy. S. Chakrabarty has his mindset on the superiority of the Bedouin un culture of the Arabs. We can always pardon an ill informed Brahmin for his lack of knowledge. Can't we, Dr. Roy?

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 11, 2014, at 7:42 PM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

"I am not inclined to take pride in some thing called Vedic math."
Look, Pal, Modi's message was for the people, like you, who are ashamed to take pride of their own heritages. When I tried to remind that point, some of you started to attack me without understanding my message. Someone even accused me of 'falsification,' which turned out to be meant for 'exaggeration.'
As I said before, Indus Valley civilization is one of the oldest civilizations in the world (5000 years old). When I tried to remind that heritage, you try to find excuses to demean them. Vedic era is ~3500 years old, it has brought so much enlightenment to people in that region, which people are still making use of. But, instead of being proud of them, you are bringing Chinese, Greek, and English literatures. This was the point Modi was making.
I know, if the same talk was given by President Kalam or Mukharjee, we would not be talking about it. So, it was not the message, but the messenger, that was wrong.
Look, when someone counter comments against mine, I look forward to learn something from it; this is just waste of time talking about something that should be obvious to all of you.
Jiten Roy

 

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

 
Ancient Indian scholars or (sages if you like the word) did real research on astronomy. That is what we need to talk about. I am not inclined to take pride in some thing called Vedic math. 
Sent from my iPhone



On Nov 10, 2014, at 6:12 AM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Well, Dr. Roy, I can accept that the imaginations of the Vedic stories were richer than their time. But when you suggest, for example, that "in-depth knowledge of astronomy ...... are all in the scriptural books", I find it more than exaggeration; it is falsification. BTW: Did Ganesh's body try to reject the elephant's head, as we see in modern transplant cases; or there was no such problem due to his mother's blessings? Now, don't get me wrong; I have been weak enough to think that the blessings of my parents did/could bring good things in my life; but I am not weak enough to think that such blessings by themselves could change established science.

Talking about some people being ahead of their time, I am willing to accept that Mohammad also was one such human. The problem that I see with the Muslims now is that too many of them proclaim his messages to be adequate for today's world.

Sukhamaya Bain

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 11/9/14, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, November 9, 2014, 10:02 PM

Dr. Bain, the problem with your
comments, most of the time,
is that you think out of context. Here, you
are judging Vedic stories against
modern science fiction stories. Vedic stories were at least
a few thousand
years old. How much
scientific sophistication do you expect from the people in
that era?  Did you
give a thought where rest of the world was when Vedic
stories were written?

When you read something from a thousand
year old
books, you need to think with reference to that era. Just
trashing them without careful consideration, you will
do injustice to those books.  

Do you know how Ganesh got his elephant
head? If
you do, you can compare that to the modern day
face-transplant. Many Vedic stories
deal with space-travel and space-warfare. If I remember
correctly, Megnad used to fight from behind the cloud. Have
you thought about how did those
fictional ideas came to them in those days? Now, compare the
standard of the Vedic people
with that of the people in the rest of the world in those
days. Only then, you will
realize how sophisticated they were. You found some falsifications in my
comments.  What are those false statements? If you tell
them, may be I can correct myself.

Jiten Roy

From: "Sukhamaya
Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]"
<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To:
mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November
9, 2014 7:04 PM
Subject: Re:
[mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

Here are
my comments on the quoted comments (below) by Dr. Jiten
Roy.

I see too much of conjecture, exaggeration, imagination and
falsification in Dr. Roy's comments. With the same kinds
of practice, religious people of other shades have been
making the claims that all kinds of knowledge can be found
in their religious books. The way I see them, the stories in
the Hindu scriptures are like poor quality science fictions,
based upon imagination. Compared to those, many of the
modern science fictions are based upon a good deal of
methodical thoughts, and upon technologies that actually
have been proven to work. That is why a lot of real science
and technology have their roots in science fictions.

BTW: As for Modi/BJP being a threat to secularism, people
need to realize that Modi/BJP is not like the fools/fanatics
that throw stones at the devil after praying to their God.
Even with their oxymoron of Hindutwa, they are a lot more
rational people than those who believe in the dogmatic
religions.

Sukhamaya Bain

==============================================================

From:

"Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]"

<


__._,_.___

Posted by: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>


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Call For Articles:

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





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Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions



I have not said a single word against Modi. Rather I have praised him. It is not Jiten Roy, it is Subimal Chakrabarty who first praised Modi for his comment on building toilets. I have praised his pragmatism. Only thing I have said is that he has the RSS roots. RSS leaders will not sit idle. They have their own Hindutvabadi agenda. That's why I have said that Indians have to watch how he plays the balancing game. I wish his democratic, pragmatic, and pluralistic approach would not be failed by the right wing parties that supported him in winning election. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 13, 2014, at 6:47 PM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

People who talk about radical religious views of Prime Minister Modi either do not know much about him or try to feed us the international propaganda talking-points against him. Mr. Chakraborty is just feeding us that propaganda again.
On the contrary, Modi is displaying his sage-like images. He a life-long bachelor; has no family. If I  remember correctly, he used to sell tea from a tea-stall on the footpath. His life-experience is all from the street, not from within a mansion. As a result, he could not inherit political career from his family-inheritance, like many other politicians in the subcontinent. That may be the reason why he is so pragmatic in his political views. I remember his election stump-speeches, where he used to tell Indians to build more toilets, not temples, which tells me - he cannot be a religious bigot. But, that's not enough for some people. I think Modi will disappoint Mr. Chakraborty also.
Jiten Roy

 

From: "Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

 
How do you measure what is wrong and what is right? What Indian idea did he kill since he became PM? What would be your ideal state? India is not a totalitarian state that it should have one mantra and one standard of nationalism? Are you not falling into in your own trap? Modi got a mandate to rule his country in a democratic election. Let him carry out his tenure, please. As long as he performs for his people, nobody would care whether he is/was an extreme or moderate Hindu. If he were an extreme Hindu, would that make Pakistanis and Bangladeshis any better secular liberals? Human social progress does not occur in the vacuum.  The man is a product of subcontinent and he had seen everything during his six decades of life.
 





On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 6:15 PM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
I have no problem in being proud of Vedic literature because of its literary beauty. I have no problem in being proud of India's contribution to the field of math, astronomy, and chemistry. It has been said that india invented zero and contributed to trigonometry and arithmetic. Aryabhatta, Shustuta, Kanada, etc. are some of the names that we all should be proud of. I am saying all this from the top of my head. 
But I have problem in being proud of some thing nonsense like Vedic math. Why math has to be mixed with Vedas to infuse false pride! Vedas are great by themselves and so is Indian contribution to math. 

Changing constitution to make it worse is obviously wrong. But it is not less wrong to distort the meaning of nationalism. Modi is a tactful leader. I will say he is dynamic too. But we must not forget his RSS roots and that RSS is divisive. There will always be backward pull. Indians have to watch how Modi plays the balancing game. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2014, at 8:26 AM, Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
I do not see any problem people taking pride of their past. Some people thrive on it and some would abuse that pride. That is a human nature. Are we not proud of our own ancestry?
Modi is not a fool, he is a politician. He knows how to play the cards. As long as he finds glory in Vedic scripture, why this should be a problem? If he can materialize some of Vedic fantasies, why that would be a problem? Has he changed Indian constitution? Has he stopped Indian science explorations? Has anybody being persecuted for blasphemy? If not, the guy should be given a chance to serve his country..
-SD
 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



On Tuesday, November 11, 2014 8:42 AM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
"I am not inclined to take pride in some thing called Vedic math."
Look, Pal, Modi's message was for the people, like you, who are ashamed to take pride of their own heritages. When I tried to remind that point, some of you started to attack me without understanding my message. Someone even accused me of 'falsification,' which turned out to be meant for 'exaggeration.'
As I said before, Indus Valley civilization is one of the oldest civilizations in the world (5000 years old). When I tried to remind that heritage, you try to find excuses to demean them. Vedic era is ~3500 years old, it has brought so much enlightenment to people in that region, which people are still making use of. But, instead of being proud of them, you are bringing Chinese, Greek, and English literatures. This was the point Modi was making.
I know, if the same talk was given by President Kalam or Mukharjee, we would not be talking about it. So, it was not the message, but the messenger, that was wrong.
Look, when someone counter comments against mine, I look forward to learn something from it; this is just waste of time talking about something that should be obvious to all of you.
Jiten Roy

 

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

 
Ancient Indian scholars or (sages if you like the word) did real research on astronomy. That is what we need to talk about. I am not inclined to take pride in some thing called Vedic math. 
Sent from my iPhone



On Nov 10, 2014, at 6:12 AM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Well, Dr. Roy, I can accept that the imaginations of the Vedic stories were richer than their time. But when you suggest, for example, that "in-depth knowledge of astronomy ...... are all in the scriptural books", I find it more than exaggeration; it is falsification. BTW: Did Ganesh's body try to reject the elephant's head, as we see in modern transplant cases; or there was no such problem due to his mother's blessings? Now, don't get me wrong; I have been weak enough to think that the blessings of my parents did/could bring good things in my life; but I am not weak enough to think that such blessings by themselves could change established science.

Talking about some people being ahead of their time, I am willing to accept that Mohammad also was one such human. The problem that I see with the Muslims now is that too many of them proclaim his messages to be adequate for today's world.

Sukhamaya Bain

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 11/9/14, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, November 9, 2014, 10:02 PM

Dr. Bain, the problem with your
comments, most of the time,
is that you think out of context. Here, you
are judging Vedic stories against
modern science fiction stories. Vedic stories were at least
a few thousand
years old. How much
scientific sophistication do you expect from the people in
that era?  Did you
give a thought where rest of the world was when Vedic
stories were written?

When you read something from a thousand
year old
books, you need to think with reference to that era. Just
trashing them without careful consideration, you will
do injustice to those books.  

Do you know how Ganesh got his elephant
head? If
you do, you can compare that to the modern day
face-transplant. Many Vedic stories
deal with space-travel and space-warfare. If I remember
correctly, Megnad used to fight from behind the cloud. Have
you thought about how did those
fictional ideas came to them in those days? Now, compare the
standard of the Vedic people
with that of the people in the rest of the world in those
days. Only then, you will
realize how sophisticated they were. You found some falsifications in my
comments.  What are those false statements? If you tell
them, may be I can correct myself.

Jiten Roy

From: "Sukhamaya
Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]"
<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To:
mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November
9, 2014 7:04 PM
Subject: Re:
[mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

Here are
my comments on the quoted comments (below) by Dr. Jiten
Roy.

I see too much of conjecture, exaggeration, imagination and
falsification in Dr. Roy's comments. With the same kinds
of practice, religious people of other shades have been
making the claims that all kinds of knowledge can be found
in their religious books. The way I see them, the stories in
the Hindu scriptures are like poor quality science fictions,
based upon imagination. Compared to those, many of the
modern science fictions are based upon a good deal of
methodical thoughts, and upon technologies that actually
have been proven to work. That is why a lot of real science
and technology have their roots in science fictions.

BTW: As for Modi/BJP being a threat to secularism, people
need to realize that Modi/BJP is not like the fools/fanatics
that throw stones at the devil after praying to their God.
Even with their oxymoron of Hindutwa, they are a lot more
rational people than those who believe in the dogmatic
religions.

Sukhamaya Bain

==============================================================

From:

"Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]"

<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>

To:

"mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com"

<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>

Sent:

Saturday, 8 November 2014, 22:37

..........................."Indian civilization, in the
Vedic era, was much advanced than any other in the world.
Descriptions of inter-galactic movement through space-ship,
warfare with the most advanced weapons (airplanes, rockets,
missiles, etc.), in-depth knowledge of astronomy, and
astrology are all in the scriptural books, which depicted
the advancements of knowledge in those
days."...............................................











__._,_.___

Posted by: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





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