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Monday, February 10, 2014

[mukto-mona] [মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ] 'এক ডজন বিজ্ঞান '

মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ has posted a new item,
'এক ডজন বিজ্ঞান '

অতঃপর দেখা গেল, সাকুল্যে এ
যাবত ১২খানি বই লিখিয়াছি -
সকলই বিজ্ঞানের। যৌথ বা একক
প্রয়াসে এই ডজনখানেক বিজ্ঞান
বিরচিত হইল। দ্বাদশতম
গ্রন্থখানির নাম দিয়াছি 'থাকে
শুধু অন্ধকার'; কেন লিখিলাম এই
বই? কীভাবে লিখিলাম? শুন দিয়া
মন-

প্রথমার অফিসে
বিকেল-সন্ধ্যায় কোনো একদিন -
জানুয়ারি ২০১৩ হবে।
শ্রদ্ধেয় রাজিব নূর কথা
প্রসঙ্গে জিজ্ঞেস করলেন,
"মানুষের [...]

You may view the latest post at
http://mukto-mona.com/bangla_blog/?p=39712

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Best regards,
মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ ।



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[mukto-mona] নতুন কমিটি এক মাসে, সালামকে বেগম জিয়ার ধমক



নতুন কমিটি এক মাসে, সালামকে বেগম জিয়ার ধমক

.........

খালেদা জিয়া সালামকে ধমক দিয়ে বলেন, 'কমিটি কিভাবে হবে তা তুমি বলার কে? কমিটি করার জন্যই আমি এখানে বসেছি।  দুই বছরেও নগরের ওয়ার্ড কমিটি করতে পারনি। তোমরা আন্দোলনে পুরোপুরি ব্যর্থ হয়েছো।' 







images












নিজস্ব প্রতিবেদক
আরটিএনএন
ঢাকা: রাজপথের আন্দোলনে ব্যর্থতার দায়ে ঢাকা মহানগর বিএনপি কমিটি অবশেষে ভেঙে দেয়া হচ্ছে। কাউন্সিলের মাধ্যমে আগামী এক মাসের মধ্যে নতুন কমিটি গঠন করা হবে।

মহানগর নেতাদের সঙ্গে বৈঠকে এ সিদ্ধান্তের কথা জানিয়েছেন বিএনপি চেয়ারপারসন বেগম খালেদা জিয়া।

গুলশানের নিজ কার্যালয়ে সোমবার রাত ৯টার দিকে শুরু হওয়া মহানগর নেতাদের সঙ্গে বেগম জিয়ার বৈঠক প্রায় দুই ঘণ্টা ধরে চলে। সেখানেই নতুন কমিটি গঠন করার ব্যাপারে নিজের সিদ্ধান্তের কথা জানান বেগম জিয়া।

বৈঠক শেষে মহানগর কমিটির সদস্য সচিব আবদুস সালাম সাংবাদিকদের বলেন, 'বৈঠকে আন্দোলনে ব্যর্থতার বিষয়ে চেয়ারপারসন কথা বলেছেন। পাশাপাশি আগামী দিনের আন্দোলন চাঙ্গা করতে কাউন্সিলের মাধ্যমে মহানগরের কমিটি করার কথা বলেছেন।'

তিনি বলেন, 'দু-একদিনের মধ্যে দলের শীর্ষ পর্যায়ের কয়েকজন নেতাকে এক মাসের মধ্যে মহানগর কমিটি করার দায়িত্ব দিবেন ম্যাডাম। তারা প্রথমে কাউন্সিলের মাধ্যমে সকল থানা ও ইউনিট কমিটি করবেন। পরে একইভাবে তারা মহানগরের পূর্ণাঙ্গ কমিটি করবেন।'

বৈঠক সূত্রে জানা গেছে, বৈঠকে নতুনভাবে মহানগর কমিটি গঠনের সিদ্ধান্ত বেগম জিয়া জানানোর পরপরই বর্তমান কমিটির আলোচিত সদস্য সচিব আবদুস সালাম পুরোনো যারা আছেন তাদের নিয়েই নতুন উদ্যোমে কাজ করার বিষয়ে মতামত ব্যক্ত করেন।

এ সময় খালেদা জিয়া সালামকে ধমক দিয়ে বলেন, 'কমিটি কিভাবে হবে তা তুমি বলার কে? কমিটি করার জন্যই আমি এখানে বসেছি। দুই বছরেও নগরের ওয়ার্ড কমিটি করতে পারনি। তোমরা আন্দোলনে পুরোপুরি ব্যর্থ হয়েছো।'

বৈঠকে উপস্থিত একাধিক নেতা আরটিএনএন-কে জানান, বেগম জিয়া আবদুস সালামের উপর ক্ষোভ প্রকাশ করে আরো বলেন, 'মার্চ ফর ডেমোক্রেসি কর্মসূচি সফল করার দায়িত্ব ছিল ঢাকা মহানগর বিএনপির। অনেকে অনেক বড় বড় কথা বলে, কিন্তু কেউই কর্মসূচি সফল করতে পারেননি। সারা দেশে আন্দোলন জোরদার হয়েছে। অথচ ঢাকায় কিছুই হয়নি।'

এ সময় সালামসহ বেশ কয়েকজন নেতা বলেন, 'আমরা আমাদের মত চেষ্টা করেছি। কিন্তু সরকারের মারমুখি অবস্থান এবং রাস্তায় নামলেই গুলি করার কারণে আমরা পারিনি।'

তখন উপস্থিত নেতাদের উদ্দেশ্যে খালেদা জিয়া বলেন, 'মামলা ও গ্রেপ্তারের ভয়ে পালিয়ে থাকলে হবে না। আপনারা ঘরে থাকলেও সরকার মামলা দেবে। বিএনপি ছেড়ে দিলেও মামলা দেবে। আপনারা রাজনীতি করতে এসেছেন, তাই রাজপথে থাকতে হবে।'

তিনি মহানগর নেতাদের তিরস্কার করে বলেন, 'তোমরা ব্যর্থ হলেও আমি সফল। জনগণ সফল হয়েছে। তাই তোমাদের দিয়ে হবে না। আমি নতুন কমিটি করব।'

বেগম জিয়া বলেন, 'অনেক বড় বড় কথা বললেও মহানগরে যে কমিটি গঠন করা হয়েছে, তা পকেট কমিটি। এই কমিটিতে অনেক ত্যাগী, পরীক্ষিত, সৎ নেতারা স্থান পাননি। দলের দুর্দিনে যারা কাজ করেছে, তারা নতুন কমিটিতে স্থান পাবে।'

বিএনপি চেয়ারপারসন বলেন, 'যারা ব্যর্থ হয়েছে তাদের বাদ দেয়া হবে। আর যারা সফল হয়েছে এবং নতুন ত্যাগী ও যোগ্যদের সমন্বয়ে নতুন কমিটি গঠন করা হবে।'

বৈঠকে নেতাদের কাছে আন্দোলনে ব্যর্থতার কারণ জানতে চান খালেদা জিয়া। তখন  উপস্থিত নেতারা এক বাক্যে আন্দোলনে নিজেদের ব্যর্থতার দায় স্বীকার করে নেন।

বৈঠক সূত্রে জানা যায়, মহানগরকে দুই ভাগ করে কমিটি করার বিষয়ে খালেদা জিয়া বলেন, 'এখন ঢাকা শহরে প্রায় আড়াই কোটি মানুষ। দুই ভাগে ভাগ করার বিষয়টি বিবেচনাধীন। স্থায়ী কমিটির বৈঠকে এ বিষয়ে সিদ্ধান্ত হবে।'

কমিটি পুনর্গঠনের বিষয়ে স্থায়ী কমিটির সদস্যদের সঙ্গে আলোচনা করে চূড়ান্ত সিদ্ধান্ত নেওয়া হবে বলেও তিনি জানান।

বৈঠকে মহানগরের নেতাদের মধ্যে উপস্থিত ছিলেন- সদস্য সচিব আবদুস সালাম, যুগ্ম-আহ্বায়ক এসএ খালেক, সাহাব উদ্দিন, আবু সাঈদ খান খোকন, সামসুল হুদা, সাজ্জাদ জহির, কাজী আবুল বাশার, আবদুল কাইয়ুম, আবদুল আলিম নকি, মুন্সি বজলুল বাতিত আঞ্জু, আবদুল লতিফ, এম মজিদ, আলী আজগর মাতব্বর, আজীজুল্লাহসহ ৪৯ থানার সভাপতি/আহ্বায়ক, সাধারণ সম্পাদক/সদস্য সচিব।

কারাগারে থাকায় বৈঠকে অংশ নিতে পারেননি মহানগর বিএনপির আহ্বায়ক সাদেক হোসেন খোকা, যুগ্ম-আহ্বায়ক নাসির উদ্দিন পিন্টু ও আনোয়ারুজ্জামান আনোয়ার। এছাড়া আরেক নেতা মো. মোহন অসুস্থ হয়ে হাসপাতালে আছেন।

বৈঠকে বিএনপির স্থায়ী কমিটির সদস্য ড. আরএ গণি এবং ড. আবদুল মঈন খানও উপস্থিত ছিলেন।

http://www.rtnn.net//newsdetail/detail/1/1/77899#.Uvm8R2JdU-0

ঢাকা মহানগর বিএনপির কমিটিকে ব্যর্থ বললেন খালেদা:

http://www.banglanews24.com/new/%E0%A6%B0%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%9C%E0%A6%A8%E0%A7%80%E0%A6%A4%E0%A6%BF/267017-%E0%A6%A2%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%95%E0%A6%BE-%E0%A6%AE%E0%A6%B9%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%A8%E0%A6%97%E0%A6%B0-%E0%A6%AC%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%8F%E0%A6%A8%E0%A6%AA%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%B0-%E0%A6%95%E0%A6%AE%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%9F%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%95%E0%A7%87-%E0%A6%AC%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%AF%E0%A6%B0%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%A5-%E0%A6%AC%E0%A6%B2%E0%A6%B2%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%A8-%E0%A6%96%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%B2%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%A6%E0%A6%BE.html


  • কর্মীদের তোপের মুখে সালাম, দালাল বলে স্লোগান
  • নিজস্ব প্রতিবেদক
    আরটিএনএন
    ঢাকা: দলের চেয়ারপারসনের সঙ্গে বৈঠক করতে এসে নেতাকর্মীদের তোপের মুখে পড়েছেন বহুল আলোচিত ঢাকা মহানগর বিএনপির সদস্য সচিব ও কেন্দ্রীয় অর্থনৈতিক বিষয়ক সম্পাদক আবদুস সালাম।

    সরকারবিরোধী আন্দোলনে রহস্যজনক অবস্থানের কারণে নেতাকর্মীরা জাতীয় পার্টির সাবেক এই নেতাকে কার্যালয়ের সামনে 'দালাল' বলে স্লোগান দেন

  • http://www.rtnn.net//newsdetail/detail/1/1/77891


__._,_.___


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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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[mukto-mona] Re: [KHABOR] ক্যাশ চাই, নির্বাচন করতে গেলে অনেক লাগে: চিফ হুইপ (ভিডিও): Fundraising is legitimate ....!!!!



I do not see anything wrong in soliciting cash contribution from the public in an 

open forum ...... The 
Election Campaign financing with contribution from the public is open and legal in western democracies including USA. 

"The escalating cost of campaigning for Congress, especially the cost of political advertisements on television, has turned many senators and representatives into part-time legislators and full-time fundraisers. The "money chase" continues even in nonelection years, as members build up large campaign chests. 

Although the quest for campaign financing places a wearisome burden on members of Congress, they still have great advantage over rival candidates who try to unseat them. Organized interest groups traditionally donated more money to those already holding office, in recognition of the power of their office and the likelihood of their reelection.  ........ 

The largest share of money for congressional campaigns comes from political action committees (PACs) representing various special interest groups......."

Sources

  • David B. Magleby and Candice J. Nelson, The Money Chase: Congressional Campaign Finance Reform (Washington, D.C.: Brookings Institution, 1990)



2014-02-10 1:03 GMT-05:00 Mohammad Zakaria <goufbd@gmail.com>:
 

নির্বাচনে খরচের খাত কি কি? ভোটারের স্বার্থে যদি প্রার্থী নির্বাচন করে
তাহলে ভোটাররাইত প্রয়োজনীয় খরচ করবে। তাই নয় কি?
রাজনীতি এমন হীন ব্যবসায় অধপতিত হল কেন? এই দুর্যোগ থেকে বেরিয়ে আসার উপায় কি?


On 2/8/14, Delwar Mazumder <delwar98@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ক্যাশ চাই, নির্বাচন করতে গেলে অনেক লাগে: চিফ হুইপ (ভিডিও)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMeVvMOaons&feature=player_embedded 

On 2/8/14, Delwar Mazumder <delwar98@hotmail.com> wrote:  ক্যাশ চাই, নির্বাচন করতে গেলে অনেক লাগে: চিফ হুইপ (ভিডিও) 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMeVvMOaons&feature=player_embedded 

০৮ ফেব্রুয়ারি,২০১৪
নিজস্ব প্রতিনিধি 
 নিজস্ব প্রতিনিধি 
পটুয়াখালী: রাজনৈতিক সংবর্ধনায় প্রকাশ্যে ক্যাশ (নগদ) টাকা চাইলেন জাতীয় সংসদের চিফ হুইপ আ স ম ফিরোজ। 

  শুক্রবার নির্বাচনী এলাকা পটুয়াখালীর বাউফলে সংবর্ধনা অনুষ্ঠানে তিনি এমন ঘোষণা  দেন। 
 ক্রেস্ট গ্রহণের একপর্যায়ে ফিরোজ প্রকাশ্যে মাইকে ঘোষণা দিয়ে বলেন, 'আগামীকাল (শনিবার) দলীয় কার্যালয়ে সকাল ৯টা থেকে বেলা ৩টা পর্যন্ত বসবো। যদি কারো উপটৌকন দেয়ার ইচ্ছা থাকে, তবে আর এই ক্রেস্ট না। ক্যাশ (নগদ টাকা) চাই,  ক্যাশ চাই।' 

 এ সময় উপস্থিত নেতাকর্মীদের উদ্দেশ্য করে তিনি বলেন, 'বোঝেন নাই? নির্বাচন করতে গেলে অনেক লাগে। কাজেই ক্যাশ দিয়েন, খুব ভালো হবে। কাল (শনিবার) দেখা হবে সবার সঙ্গে। আজ আর কোনো ক্রেস্ট নেব না, সমস্ত 
ক্রেস্ট আমি পরে নেব।' 
বাউফল উপজেলা সদরের সরকারি পাবলিক মাঠে উপজেলা আওয়ামী লীগ ও সহযোগী সংগঠনের উদ্যোগে চিফ হুইপকে গণসংবর্ধনা দেয়া হয়। এতে নেতাকর্মীরা তাকে ক্রেস্ট, ফুলের তোড়া উপহার দেন। 
পরে  গণসংবর্ধনা অনুষ্ঠানটি স্থানীয় কেবল অপারেটরের মাধ্যমে শহরে সম্প্রচার করা হয়। আর উপটৌকন হিসেবে প্রকাশ্যে মাইকে ঘোষণা দিয়ে নগদ টাকা দাবি করার এই ভিডিওটি সামাজিক যোগাযোগ সাইটে ছড়িয়ে পড়লে সমালোচনার ঝড় উঠে। 
এ ব্যাপারে মোবাইল ফোনে যোগাযোগ করা হলে চিফ হুইপ বলেন, 'ক্যাশের কথা বলেছি। 
তবে সেটা দলের জন্য। 


__._,_.___


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Re: [mukto-mona] Do Hindus respect their women? Any Mukto monas beating their wives and having multiple mistresses?



I will touch only one point. I don't know what you mean by your statement that I see every thing through religious glass. Did you mean that an atheist should  be indifferent to whatever is going on in the name of religion? I don't think so. Even a sensible believer should not be indifferent. As a responsible member of the society everybody should give his opinion. 

Regarding showing respect to a religion by the state, you are fundamentally wrong. By making polygamy legal only to show respect to a religion, the state is discriminating against our women. According to you, by making Hindu caste system illegal, the Indian government is showing disrespect to Hindu religion. 

You are really confused. Allowing Hindus to celebrate their religious festivals and allowing them to have multiple wives are not the same thing. I don't think America will let Hindus sacrifice goat openly as is done in Bangladesh. Does this make America disrespectful to Hindu religion? No, in not showing cruelty to animals for satisfying one's spiritual needs, this country has proved itself to be more civilized. 

On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:56 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

 

1. From your statement it appears that Indian law is discriminatory. It allows only Muslims to have multiple wives. 

>>>>>>>>>>> Actually Muslims are exempt on religious ground. Albeit very few Muslim men practice polygamy (Less than 2%). 

2. Proportionately more Hindus have more multiple wives than Muslims have. I will not challenge you as it is possible in a country where feudalism is still very powerful. Obviously Hindus are breaking laws. That is what you expect in a country full of corruption. But what is important to note is that Hindu India is clearly defying many noble characters in their holy books who had multiple wives. King Dasarath, father of Ramchandra and Laxman, had four wives. This is called dynamism.


>>>>>>>>> I am not blaming anyone here. just sharing reality of India. As far as law is concern, it is not proper for me to talk too much about how Indian Hindus should craft their family laws. If majority of Hindu men or women feel they should be allowed more wives, they can change that law. India is a democracy and if most citizens feels strongly about this, they can alter it.

3. I simply endorsed your opinion that religion should be kept aside. Now you are saying, "not really"!

>>>>>>> Simple misunderstanding. I did not say religion should be kept aside but I said for that post I was putting religious view on the side ( Leaving my religious prism on the side for that discussion).  While I am comfortable with religion, I do not see EVERYTHING with a religious point of view. I felt as a non-Hindu, I should be courteous on a hard core religious issues (Leave it for Hindus to decide).

4. I know what you mean. India allows Muslims to have multiple wives. That's what Bangladesh does too. And both the countries are simply abiding by the Islamic junctions.


>>>>>>>> You claim to be an atheist but sadly see EVERYTHING via religious glass.

India or Bangladesh are not "Abiding by Islamic junction" but showing respect for religions. Bangladesh have government holidays on Durga puja, Janmostomi, Christmas etc. It does not mean our government endorse these religion. But accommodating minority populations to practice their faiths. India does the same with Muslims (With Family laws).


I think being respectful to different faiths is a good practice. Such laws shows that state belongs to everyone.

Shalom!
 


-----Original Message-----
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Feb 9, 2014 8:04 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Do Hindus respect their women? Any Mukto monas beating their wives and having multiple mistresses?

 
1. From your statement it appears that Indian law is discriminatory. It allows only Muslims to have multiple wives. 

2. Proportionately more Hindus have more multiple wives than Muslims have. I will not challenge you as it is possible in a country where feudalism is still very powerful. Obviously Hindus are breaking laws. That is what you expect in a country full of corruption. But what is important to note is that Hindu India is clearly defying many noble characters in their holy books who had multiple wives. King Dasarath, father of Ramchandra and Laxman, had four wives. This is called dynamism

3. I simply endorsed your opinion that religion should be kept aside. Now you are saying, "not really"! 

4. I know what you mean. India allows Muslims to have multiple wives. That's what Bangladesh does too. And both the countries are simply abiding by the Islamic junctions. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 9, 2014, at 12:10 PM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

 
I don't think Indian law permits polygamy.

>>>>>>>>>>> Muslims are allowed in India but non-Muslims are not. However according to a report (Few year old) still percentage of Hindu men with multiple wives is higher than percentage of Muslim men (In India) with multiple wives. Indian authorities generally looks the other way when this is discussed. Laws stays in the book and men have more than one legal wives.

Yes, Mr. QR, religion has to be kept aside.

>>>>>>>>> Not necessarily. Since I am not Hindu, I did not want to say too much about the religion but wanted to share my personal observation. A simple token of respect to followers of Hindu religion. I think ultimately it is Hindus they have to decide what needs to be changed.

It is not "Proper" to impose secularism or any other theories on Hindu population. We may discuss it but ultimately it is a Hindu community issue.


I don't know if polygamy is forbidden in Muslim Law in Bangladesh.

>>>>>>> It is not forbidden in your "Perfect India", why should it be forbidden in BD?

Also there are many tough PER-CONDITIONS if any man wishes to have more than one wife. Most people do not know about them.


sh. It will face opposition from our leaders like Allama Shafi who will refer to the edicts in Islam that allows a man to have up to four wives under certain strict condition

 >>>>>>>>>> There are areas and views where I defer from Allama Shafi but as a citizen of this country he can form an opinion like any of you can. As long he is peaceful, he is entitled to have an opinion.


. As far as I know Muslim Law in Bangladesh does not allow equal rights for women to the parental property. It was a big issue India.

>>>>>>>>>>> However in some areas women have some advantages as well. So you are halfway right about it. IF someone does not like current law, they can propose a better one. Unless they have a better solution, it is useless to talk about current law.


Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Feb 8, 2014 2:07 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Do Hindus respect their women? Any Mukto monas beating their wives and having multiple mistresses?

 
For most of the educated Hindus and even for Hindus in general, religion is kept aside when it comes to religious persecution of Hindu women. Many rituals are still there but they have been made very mild in most of the families. Nobody cares any more about what the sacred books like Mahabharata, Ramayana, Manusanhita, Purans, and subsequent edicts by Hindu orthodox pundits say how the Hindu women should behave from social and religious points of view. They however are used as sources of good moral values. Indian law absolutely ignores religious injunctions if they are inhuman. I don't think Indian law permits polygamy. I hope Bangladesh will follow India soon in guaranteeing legitimate rights to Hindu women. 

Yes, Mr. QR, religion has to be kept aside. But will our religious fundamentalists let us do that in all cases? I don't know if polygamy is forbidden in Muslim Law in Bangladesh. It will face opposition from our leaders like Allama Shafi who will refer to the edicts in Islam that allows a man to have up to four wives under certain strict conditions. As far as I know Muslim Law in Bangladesh does not allow equal rights for women to the parental property. It was a big issue India. 


Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 8, 2014, at 9:56 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

 
If we keep religion aside, Hindu women will benefit with some rights to her parents property. I agree with members that, there are many Hindu families who do not have such issues. However many do have these issues.


As I said before many Hindu leaders have "One track mind" and it ends up into domestic politics. Right to property, right to security, right to inheritance (For women), right to divorce are need of the hour. I remember when our government wanted to have laws to protect right for Hindu women, many Hindus leaders spoke out against it.

This kind of self-centered attitude erodes credibility. 


Property rights issue for Hindu women in Bangladesh is complicated. There is no easy solution. Hindu women will not be liberated with this right. It could bring more trouble into their lives.

>>>>>> Help me understand this part member Roy. How will this bring Hindu women more trouble.



Shalom!
-----Original Message-----
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Feb 7, 2014 5:09 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Do Hindus respect their women? Any Mukto monas beating their wives and having multiple mistresses?

 
I agree with Dr. Jiten Roy that the lady generalized too much based upon the misery of her personal life, that she could have taken more serious actions against the criminal husband, and that she failed miserably to educate her family.
 
I also feel that polygamy and extra-marital relationships are not a


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Re: [mukto-mona] atrocities in PoK



Border fence and even arm procurement often serve no better purpose than transaction of commissions.  Through such fence tens of millions of holy cows are smuggled to feed people with Paki mindset.  Thousands of poor women and other items are also smuggled through it.  Historically wall and fence had served no purpose.  Chinese wall did not prevent Mongolian invasion, Berlin wall had fallen apart, and I am sure barbed fence erected here would rust away soon.  Radcliffe and others created a land which ultimately became Bangladesh.  Average per capita income here is about half the subcontinental average while commodity price is about twice as high.

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 11, 2014, at 5:31 AM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

So, Indians have been building the barbed wire fences only for decorative purposes while BNP/Jamatis hate any wall that separates them from nemesis India?  Something does not add up with this flawed logic. The question is how many Indians have migrated to Bangladesh for better jobs and future? 
-SD   
 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



On Monday, February 10, 2014 1:23 PM, Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> wrote:
I want to respond to Shah Deeldar's comments on Bangladeshis leaving for India in droves in search of better life: "Many Bangladeshis are already crossing Indian border for a better life ".  Here's what I wrote in 2012 in ALOCHONA discussion group:

I know this for a fact that the BJP and the Sang Parivar keep using these outrageously inflated no. of Bangladeshis in India as a part of their anti-Muslim propaganda. No one takes them seriously though. In fact, from time to time, progressive Indian journalists go out of their way to prove the Sanghis flat out wrong. This is also an anti-Bangladesh Sanghi propaganda in the sense that BD is supposed to be poor, and India is supposed to be a more developed country, hence the influx of starving Bengalis in rich India!

Funnily, most of the Hukka Hua gang of BD 'yahoogroups' communalist anti-India BNP/Jamaat bahini are parroting the same BJP/RSS Sang Parivar line! They repeat it ad nauseum. Sometimes they sound and act like the hired 'dharna' attendants and placard -bearers of the Sanghis. Oh! Poor little Bangladesh is being swallowed by big, evil, RICH India! The soppy-soppy self-pitying hides from view how un-little Bangladesh is. The world's seventh most populous country would be very hard to swallow by India, a country that is shamelessly unable to feed its own people due to sheer neglect and inefficiency!

The REALITY is that all international Human Development indicators are showing that Bangladesh is better off than India in many sectors, including food production, primary education for girl children, women in the work force, maternity healthcare and mortality rate, etc. Poverty and starvation in India has reached such a staggering proportion that last year's HD Indicators show India dropping below Sub-Saharan Africa's level. Just imagine!

                                     Farida Majid


CC: bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com
From: shahdeeldar@yahoo.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 16:03:05 -0800
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] atrocities in PoK

 

There might be some truth in Dr. Das's prognosis. If we look at both Pakistan and Bangladesh's political culture and slow progress in wealth building since 1947, we can easily conclude that these two countries are still far away from the democracy and materializing their true potential. There will be a day when Islam itself would not be able provide any comfort to its blind subscribers and they might be totally envious of Indian progress and dynamism? With that they might take an about turn and may get on an Indian train or left behind in the darkness. Many Bangladeshis are already crossing Indian border for a better life. The question would be whether Indians would be ready for that challenge. If religious djinni is put back to the bottle, things may start looking different in the subcontinent? Who knows?
-SD
   

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



On Sunday, February 9, 2014 1:22 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Read how thirteen colonies grew into the mammoth called U. S. A., and you would have a clue to what I mean.  Given that Hindu fanatics are no less dangerous than Muslim fanatics, a nation is not built of religious fanatics.  All it needs is a contiguous land and common business interest, with the growth of China as a world power, India is bound to regain its former shape even if it takes a few decades.  Probably you are not aware of the possibility of SARC nations being mould into a Federal state.  In such a state, Z. A. Bhutto wanted to be foreign minister about four decades ago, while Bhasani opposed it due to his pro-Chinese politics.

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 9, 2014, at 7:53 PM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

 
I find most of Dr. Das's points quite flawed.
 
Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan was a sensible man, and he wanted NWFP to be a part of the secular India, as opposed to the Islamic fanatic Pakistan. If his wish came to fruition in 1947, his people most likely would have been more civilized now, than what they are in reality now. However, looking at the reality on the ground, there is no reason to believe that the population of that land wants to be a part of India now.
 
I believe Islam would keep the Pakistani provinces together for a long time. Even as I agree that Pakistan is destined to fragment, I believe that it would take a very very long time; just guess how long it would take to wash off the religious fanaticism from the heads of the people there. There is no shortage of Islamic fanatics in any part of Pakistan now. I am convinced that if East Bengal were a contiguous state to what is Pakistan now, there would be no Bangladesh today. East Bengal had enough collaborators in 1971 to keep the province with Pakistan, if the Pakistani military had convenient arms supply for them and for themselves.
 
I do not believe India's leadership would be stupid enough to 'swallow fragmented parts' of what is Pakistan today. There is no vacant land to swallow; they would have to take in a lot of religious fanatics. No smart leadership would do that. And India has enough human right activists to stop anything like a mass expulsion of any kind of people from their homes, even if a crazy leadership (which is unlikely anyway) ever wanted to do that.
 
SuBain
 
=================================================
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2014 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] atrocities in PoK
 
All the rivers in Pakistan originate in Kashmir. Besides, Peswar led by Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan wanted to join India and Baluchistan wanted to remain Independent.  Islam can not glue together the provinces of Pakistan, even Jiy


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http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] atrocities in PoK



My point was that when a country fails to deliver to its people and people see neighbors becoming richer and prosperous, they might jump on to neighbor's train. The trend is already there if you want to see it. For last fifty years, Muslims refugees are on the move and settling in the west despite the oil wealth and the other cool-aide called Islam. Nothing has really worked for the Muslims except a decent secular Turkey. Whereas countries with less resources but equipped with knowledge and science have done far better. As I said, if religion is totally sidelined, India could become a country with loosely associated states and prosper from its culturally related diverse population. Now, if people would still indulge in building more mosques and temples in their own territories, no damn God would be able help these hapless people.

What happens in fifty years from now is not easy to predict in the light of what has happened in last fifty years. I would not poo poo any reasonable idea.
-SD        

"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



On Monday, February 10, 2014 6:57 PM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Well, we are not really talking about truth or fact, we are giving our opinions. Mr. Deeldar finds validity in Dr. Das's opinion, and I do not. Here are some of my reasons.
 
The 13 colonies that grew into the USA did not have much similarity with the present Indian sub-continent in terms of demographics or socio-political-economic environments.
 
What Zulfikar Ali Bhutto wanted for the subcontinent does not impress me at all.
 
Have you heard much about SAARC activities lately?
 
Erecting a mosque in every sub-district by the government and thousands of madrasas in the country do not look like the religious djinni is going back into the bottle any time soon.
 
India regaining its former shape in a few decades! I think we need to ask Dr. Avijit Roy to book a place for mukto-mona in the cyberspace of hell, so that I could rub Dr. Kamal Das's nose there in a few decades!!
 
SuBain
 
===========================================
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com" <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 9, 2014 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] atrocities in PoK
 
There might be some truth in Dr. Das's prognosis. If we look at both Pakistan and Bangladesh's political culture and slow progress in wealth building since 1947, we can easily conclude that these two countries are still far away from the democracy and materializing their true potential. There will be a day when Islam itself would not be able provide any comfort to its blind subscribers and they might be totally envious of Indian progress and dynamism? With that they might take an about turn and may get on an Indian train or left behind in the darkness. Many Bangladeshis are already crossing Indian border for a better life. The question would be whether Indians would be ready for that challenge. If religious djinni is put back to the bottle, things may start looking different in the subcontinent? Who knows? -SD    

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss

On Sunday, February 9, 2014 1:22 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Read how thirteen colonies grew into the mammoth called U. S. A., and you would have a clue to what I mean.  Given that Hindu fanatics are no less dangerous than Muslim fanatics, a nation is not built of religious fanatics.  All it needs is a contiguous land and common business interest, with the growth of China as a world power, India is bound to regain its former shape even if it takes a few decades.  Probably you are not aware of the possibility of SARC nations being mould into a Federal state.  In such a state, Z. A. Bhutto wanted to be foreign minister about four decades ago, while Bhasani opposed it due to his pro-Chinese politics.
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 9, 2014, at 7:53 PM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
I find most of Dr. Das's points quite flawed.
 
Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan was a sensible man, and he wanted NWFP to be a part of the secular India, as opposed to the Islamic fanatic Pakistan. If his wish came to fruition in 1947, his people most likely would have been more civilized now, than what they are in reality now. However, looking at the reality on the ground, there is no reason to believe that the population of that land wants to be a part of India now.
 
I believe Islam would keep the Pakistani provinces together for a long time. Even as I agree that Pakistan is destined to fragment, I believe that it would take a very very long time; just guess how long it would take to wash off the religious fanaticism from the heads of the people there. There is no shortage of Islamic fanatics in any part of Pakistan now. I am convinced that if East Bengal were a contiguous state to what is Pakistan now, there would be no Bangladesh today. East Bengal had enough collaborators in 1971 to keep the province with Pakistan, if the Pakistani military had convenient arms supply for them and for themselves.
 
I do not believe India's leadership would be stupid enough to 'swallow fragmented parts' of what is Pakistan today. There is no vacant land to swallow; they would have to take in a lot of religious fanatics. No smart leadership would do that. And India has enough human right activists to stop anything like a mass expulsion of any kind of people from their homes, even if a crazy leadership (which is unlikely anyway) ever wanted to do that.
 
SuBain
 
=================================================
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2014 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] atrocities in PoK
 
All the rivers in Pakistan originate in Kashmir. Besides, Peswar led by Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan wanted to join India and Baluchistan wanted to remain Independent.  Islam can not glue together the provinces of Pakistan, even Jiye Sind movement is not dead yet.  Pakistan is destined to be fragmented, India has high hope to swallow fragmented parts of the strange land created by the British rulers in 1947.  
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 8, 2014, at 8:55 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
"the least important of which is religion" - I am also ignorant.
 
Could you educate us with some details, Dr. Das? Thank you in anticipation.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
==============================
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 7, 2014 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] atrocities in PoK
 
Apparently, Mr. Chakrabarty is ignorant of the reasons of dispute on Kashmir between India and Pakistan, the least important of which is religion.
Sent from my iPad
 
==========================================
On Feb 7, 2014, at 9:40 AM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Dear moderators
The following message has not yet been published. Is there any reason for not publishing it? Please make me aware of your policy. 
I really want to share my views with the most active members of the group. It can be an interesting debate. 
Thanks. 
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 5, 2014, at 7:55 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have an "impossible" proposition. It is impossible in the sense that neither India nor Pakistan will agree to it one of the reasons being that the the trust level between these two neighbors is minimal. Any way, my proposition is that India and Pakistan agree to a time frame to create an independent Kashmir. 
The other reasons that make the proposition are
1. Pakistan will not want to lose Azad Kashmir although India is kind of tired of spending money and other resources to keep J&K with her. 
2. Kashmir part of J&K may want to be free but Jammu may not. 
3. India may want to have Kashmir and Jammu as two separate independent states as an alternative political solution. 
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 3, 2014, at 8:52 PM, "Sankar Kumar Ray" <sankarray62@rediffmail.com> wrote:
 
Civil rights activists are legitimately opposed to unbridled atrocities by the Indian military and para-militarily forces in Kashmir ( India-occupied Kashmir, according to the Pakistanis) but mysteriously silent about atrocities in Azad Kashmir (we call it Pakistan-occupied  Kashmir). But the Friday Times of Lahore had the conscience unlike organisations such as APDR, PUCL and  PUDR, not to speak of Dodhichi 

For Ikram – Life in Pakistan occupied Kashmir – Azad Kashmir

From The Friday Times, Pakistan's First Independent Weekly Newspaper  -  17 Jan 13 (http://my.telegraph.co.uk/markulyseas/markulyseas/4145/for-ikram-life-in-pakistan-occupied-kashmir-azad-kashmir/)
The "Azad" in AJK smacks of oxymoronic rhetoric. Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK) is neither a free territory, nor a province of Pakistan. Muzaffarabad has always been under the control of Islamabad and the curtailment of the freedom of expression is constitutionally protected. Without meaning to refer to the new name just bestowed on an old province, let me ask, what's in a name?
Here is what.
There are a number of reports that describe the human rights violations in Indian Occupied Kashmir but it is hard to come by reports of violations on Pakistan's side. The Pakistani government often pretends that the only problems faced by Kashmiris are in India. The official position that there are no human rights violations in AJK is a naïve and disingenuous position that needs to be challenged. According to the Freedom House World Freedom Reports, in 2008 Pakistan-administered Kashmir was given the status "Not Free". This index awards a score of 1 to a "free country" based on ratings of political rights and civil liberties. These ratings are averaged, ranging from 1 to 7, i.e. countries or disputed territories with scores from 1 to 2.5 are considered Free, 3 to 5 are Partly Free, and 5.5 to 7 are Not Free. In 2008, this index gave AJK a Political Rights Score of 7 and a Civil Liberties score of 5. The scores for AJK have improved to a 6 and a 5 respectively in 2010. In comparison, Indian Occupied Kashmir has better scores of 5 for political rights and a 4 for civil liberties, and a status of 'partly free', which ironically is exactly equivalent to Pakistan's national score and status!
According to Brad Adams, Asia Director at Human Rights Watch , the "Pakistani authorities govern Azad Kashmir with strict controls on basic freedoms… The military shows no tolerance




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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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