Banner Advertiser

Wednesday, June 26, 2013

[mukto-mona] Example of national integrity among common people




Hi,

If you have time please visit the site:

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/the-buck-stops-here/selfless-soldiers-shameless-netas/280800?sp

Saurav
--
Saurav Shome
Research Scholar
Homi Bhabha Centre for Science Education
Tata Institute of Fundamental Research
V. N. Purav Marg
Mankhurd, Mumbai, India, 400 088
shomesaurav@gmail.com, saurav@hbcse.tifr.res.in
www.sauravpeace.wordpress.com
www.continuinglearning2teach.wordpress.com
www.pblteachers.wordpress.com
Phone: (O) 022 - 25072220 (M) + 91 - 9969872306

__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] [Mukto-Mona Writers' Corner] TITLE

Mukto-Mona Writers' Corner has posted a new item, 'IDENTITY CRISIS: THE MAIN
CAUSE OF "UNHEALTHY BANGLADESH"'

There is a book originally written in Urdu by Maulana Abdus Sattar and later
translated in Bangla by Mustafa Haroon. The Bangla version was published by
Islamic Foundation Bangladesh during 1980. This Bangla book is entitled "Aliya
Madrasar Itihat". Abdus Sattar, in all probability, was an Urdu speaking East
Pakistani. The original Urdu book [...]

You may view the latest post at
http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=2334

You received this e-mail because you asked to be notified when new updates are
posted.
Best regards,
Mukto-Mona Writers' Corner
charbak_bd@yahoo.com



------------------------------------

****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration:
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
-Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mukto-mona-digest@yahoogroups.com
mukto-mona-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
mukto-mona-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [mukto-mona] Power of Indoctrination!



It took more than three and half centuries - call it thousand years instead.



On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com> wrote:
 

It took more than three and half centuries to get ride of geocentric ideas. We are "similarly" struggling to accept evolution as a scientific fact though every aspect of our life is dependent in the ocean of scientific discoveries. Isn't it amazing! 

How long it takes for us to get ride of "anthropocentric views"? 

------------




__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth



Hitting head so many times against the ground usually creates blocks in the neural channel.  Hence one finds more idiots among believing Muslims than in any other creed.


On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 6:12 AM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

"Mainly because we (Bangladesh) is not an ideal Islamic country, so no reason to migrate to another country which is not Islamic."

Just another crap! So where is your ideal Muslim country? What would make Bangladesh a more Islamic so that milk and honey will flow on the streets? Get your head checked Mr. Rahman!
-SD

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 11:04 AM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
He does not notice that Islam does not tolerate the existence of non-Muslims.  Once Islam captured the state power, it declared the non-Muslims dhimmis(second class citizens). 

>>>>>>>>>> This cannot be factual. Since Muslims ruled India for almost 1000 years and non-Muslims were doing pretty good during that time. No one tried to impose such ideas on citizens. In Europe (Spain and southern Europe) Muslims ruled for 800 years but today scholars note than period as "Golden age of Jewish civilization". Muslims have been majority and ruling Egypt for over 1000 years but still have millions of Coptic Christians in the country with huge structures.

Also Dhimmi does NOT mean second class citizen (Such absurd ideas are only spread by people with half a brain). Literally Dhimmi means "protected". During early days of Islam it introduced the concept of protection of non-Muslims in Medina.


In India, the dhimmitude was impossible in spite of the theocracy being in favor of it.

>>>>>>>>>Hindus and Buddhists

By the 10th century, the Turks of Central Asia had brought Islam to the mountains north of the Indic plains.[67] It was not long before they swept south across the Punjab. The Indus basin held a substantial Buddhist population in addition to the ruling Hindu castes, and most converted to Islam over the next two centuries.[citation needed] At the end of the 12th century, the Muslims advanced quickly into the Ganges plain.[68] In one decade, a Muslim army led by Turkic slaves consolidated resistance around Lahore and brought northern India, as far as west Bengal, under Muslim rule.[69] From these Turkic slaves would come sultans, including the founder of the sultanate of Delhi. Muslims and dhimmis alike participated in urbanization and urban prosperity.[70]
By the 15th century, Islamic and Hindu civilization had evolved in a complementary manner, with the Muslims taking the role of a ruling caste in Hindu society. Nevertheless, the Muslims retained their Islamic identities, and were in some ways regarded by Hindus in much the same light as their own lowest castes.[71]
In the 16th century AD, India came under the influence of the Mughals (Mongols). Babar, a ruler of the Mongol Timuri empire, established a foothold in the North which paved the way for further expansion by his successors.[72] Until it was eclipsed by European hegemony in the 18th century, the Timuri Moghul emperors oversaw a period of coexistence and tolerance between Hindus and Muslims. The emperor Akbar has been described as a universalist. He sought to establish tolerance and equality between all communities and religions, and instituted far reaching social and religious reforms.[73] Not all the Mughal emperors endorsed the ideals espoused by Akbar, indeed Aurangzeb was inclined towards a more fundamentalist approach.[74]
The entire subcontinent fell under European colonial rule during the 18th century.[75] Independence from their former European colonial rulers, and the subsequent struggles for political power, have brought ethnic and religious strife to this area of the world in modern times.[76]

[ Source: Wiki ]

More Muslims live in India than elsewhere and they are showing no tendency to migrate

>>>>>>>>> Mainly because we (Bangladesh) is not an ideal Islamic country, so no reason to migrate to another country which is not Islamic. Still since 40's many (hundred of thousands) migrated to escape from persecution in India.

Secondly, those who left India did not do very well in Pakistan, so rest of them decided to stay put.

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 25, 2013 9:01 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
Mr. Q. Rahman has one agenda and that is to promote Islam and derogate Indian culture.  He does not notice that Islam does not tolerate the existence of non-Muslims.  Once Islam captured the state power, it declared the non-Muslims dhimmis(second class citizens).  In India, the dhimmitude was impossible in spite of the theocracy being in favor of it.  Buddhism was not a religion in the lifetime of Buddha, and the majority in India never accepted Buddhism.  Emperor Ashoke sponsored Buddhism, but his grandson stopped state funding on being annoyed at the interference by the Buddhist clergy.  Indian society is more tolerant than the Arabian, where Islam was born and flourished.  More Muslims live in India than elsewhere and they are showing no tendency to migrate to Mr. Rahman's heavens named Bangladesh, Pakistan or the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.


On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
There was a time when Indian Hindus let Buddhism to flourish in India. But the philosophical debate continued to show that these two religions are not qualitatively that different from each other. And that is why a Hindu would not have any problem accepting a Buddhist in his/her family and a Buddhist family would not mind to do the same. I am afraid, this can't be said about Muslims.

So, Buddhists being vanished is rather a myth that has been created by a vested group to cover up their own atrocities on many indigenous Indian people. Reference of Sikh massacre is readily available if Mr. Rahman wants to review that. Just ask me, I can add more. There was no doubt that there was a Hindu revival to fight back the foreign invaders when Buddhists were totally reluctant to fight due to their non violence principle. With more people becoming Buddhists and their total non-violence attitude towards invaders and plunderers would have made India virtually an inviting country to invade and enslave. Not that it did not happen later. Buddhists just did not want to fight the invaders from the west and they sought safe haven in the east. Who can blame them? But eventually, they figured out that they could not just chant, they had to fight back to survive. Thank God, they saw the fighting light of Buddha!


The two bottom paragraphs by Jain tell it all. However, the Buddhist passivity is not discussed at all. A critical factor why Buddhists got reabsorbed in Hinduism again.
-SD

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/pankaj-jain-phd/buddhism-origin-spread-decline_b_939679.html

Buddhism: Origin, Spread and Decline

Pankaj Jain, Ph.D.
  • "Inclusivist nature of Hinduism
    In the course of 1700 years of co-existence the Hindus had taken over a great deal from the Buddhists and vice versa, e.g., Buddhists started building temples of the Buddha and Bodhisattva. They started worshipping the Buddha as the ultimate creator and preserver of the universe. Carl Jung mentions in "The Tibetan Book of the Great Liberation" that in Buddhism, the different gods are symbolic representations. This may be an influence of Hinduism on Buddhism. In consequence, the division between Buddhism and Hinduism had increasingly diminished and it was no surprise for a Buddhist to be absorbed into the largely Buddhified Hindu fold. The philosophy of Nagarjuna had been absorbed into the Vedanta by Gaudapada, Sankara's teacher; just as the Vaishnavas of later times were greatly indebted to the Buddhists (Bhagavat Purana incorporated the Buddha as the ninth Avatar of Vishnu). The Buddhists Tantras had provoked their Hindu counterparts, which abound with references to Mahayana deities. Eventually, separate existence of Buddhism did not serve any useful purpose. Its disappearance thus was no loss to anyone.
  • Islamic invasions
    By the time of the Muslim conquest, the separate identity of Buddhism resided primarily in its great monasteries and universities. The distinctively dressed monks, all concentrated at these places were an easily identifiable target for Muslim zealotry. Hinduism, by contrast, had no identifiable heart at which to strike. It had succeeded in pervading Indian society while Buddhism had become increasingly isolated in monasteries and universities. Buddhist monks offered no resistance to the invasions, partly in obedience to their vows, and partly because they believed that astrological calculations have shown that Muslims would in any case conquer Hindustan. The destruction of Nalanda in 1197 AD and of Vikramashila in 1203 AD by Muhammad Ghori marks the end of Buddhism in India."

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 7:39 AM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
you had no idea how data was compiled.

>>>>>>>>> I have shared the sources of that survey with the whole forum. Even that data was audited and problems were fixed BEFORE it was published by people who are experts in preparing such data. I do not know why do you keep asking the SAME question over and over?

You brought it for the forum, it is your burden to prove your position. I only question the validity of your point.

>>>>>>>>> No you got mad at me for sharing a survey about India. guess you are very protective of India!!

Anyway, I'll share some information about Hindu persecution of Buddhist population in India. All of us know that, Buddhism was introduced in India but it vanished from India later on. However we can see even today Buddhism bloomed very well outside of India. Here are some info...


.....Historian S. R. Goyal has attributed the decline and disappearance of Buddhism from India to the hostility of the Brahmanas. An incident oft cited is the destruction of the Bo Tree and Buddhist images by Saivite King, Shashanka, persecution by Pusyamitra Sunga (185 BC to 151 BC) who detested the Law of the Buddha had set fire to the Sutras, destroyed Stupas, razed Samgharamas and massacred Bhikkus and even killed the deity of the Bodhi tree. There is also mention of the Huna onslaught on Taxila (in Pakistan), the persecution of Buddhist monks by Mihirkula.
Incidentally, though Moghuls are accused of destroying Hindu temples, most of these temples were actually built on Buddhist shrine sites. Results of Moghul invasions were many too - Somapura Mahavihara (now in Bangladesh) was set ablaze. Odantapuri Mahavihara close to Nalanda was razed to the ground in 1199 CE after killing all the monks and Bodhgaya was attacked as well. Though there is evidence that even a century beyond the Muslim conquest Buddhism remained in places like Gaya till the end of the 14th century which disproves the notion that Muslim conquest was not singularly responsible for the decline of Buddhism in India.

[ Source:  Why Buddhism prospered in Asia but died in India ]


How the Buddhists and Jains were Persecuted in Ancient India.



CONTRIBUTING FACTORS FOR THE DISAPPEARANCE OF BUDDHISM FROM INDIA




If you need more information about this topic, just ask. I'll add tons more on it.



Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2013 1:09 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
The way you discuss and present facts, anybody can guess the quality of such discussions that you had have in the past. You bring the same issue again from no where and yet, you can't produce a single historical reference. You brought it for the forum, it is your burden to prove your position. I only question the validity of your point. Last time, you talked about the most racist people in the world and you had no idea how data was compiled. You have no clue about their methodology and yet you take that as truth. Do you understand what I mean??  If you feel inadequate about these issues, do not get involved! Chant few verses and be happy!
-SD

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
Member SD,

As I said, we have discussed this subject in detail, just search and find it within Mukto-mona forum.

However if you are firm in denying that, Buddhists were not persecuted by Hindu? Let me know.

I am saying they were severely persecuted by Hindus (Sanatana Dharma). 


Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 7:42 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
It was an error that I corrected almost immediately with an additional post. You have finally proven yourself as a certified idiot!
So, where is reference? Produce it for the forum or confess that you do not have it!
-SD
 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
I do not think I need to answer this one

>>>>>>>> of course. That is the reason you wrote they were west bound!

Makes perfect sense.

They were persecuted by Hindus of India and were force to leave the country they used to rule. That is history. No argument needed.

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jun 19, 2013 12:02 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
I do not think I need to answer this one. It was obvious which direction they moved. And, that does not ring any bell to you?
It is you who started the Budhist persecution with the full knowledge that real culprits are well documented in my reference. Why can't you use frontal part of your brain? Bring your reference to make yourself credible! Can you? would you?
-SD
 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: QR <qrahman@aim.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 

Why not produce some intelligent references how Budhists were persecuted in India and how come they did migrate towards the West for sanctuary?

>>>>>>>>> BTW, the Buddhists went east. Not west. They went all over the orient.

This topic has been discussed with a load of references. Please move your rear end and find out from previous mukto-mona discussions. You will find a lot of interesting discussions as well.


Shalom!



-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 18, 2013 8:40 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
Why not produce some intelligent references how Budhists were persecuted in India and how come they did migrate towards the West for sanctuary? My fundamental problem is with your not providing references and facts that we need for an objective discussion. Do you understand?
-SD

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
Pot calling kettle black? The more BS from from QR with no historical reference or logic. It is rather the Muslim conquest of Indian subcontinent that put a death nail to the existence of  indigenous Hindus and Budhists. The choice was either to convert or die from the dagger.  No wonder why Dalailama feels safer in India than in Mecca. No wonder why these indigenous Indian people people did not  migrate towards the Mecca.

>>>>>>>> Why Mecca?

Maybe you were not here. We have discussed this episode in great detail here.

Dalailama is from Tibet and he took shelter in India because of his problem with Chinese communists. India still have many issues with China and gave refuge to the Dalai Lama. Not sure why the Lama will need to go to Mecca?  :-)

The problem with these organized religions is that they would love to invade other countries, concur them and establish their religious hegemony with virtually no respect to  the culture and religions of indigenous people

>>>>>>>> The fundamental problem is you do not what you are talking about. India was NEVER a single country UNTIL the Muslims reached India. The greater India concept was introduced by Muslim rulers and even the name "Hindustan" was given by Muslims!!

Hindus and Budhists were lucky that English came at the right time and put a stop of that organized religious crime.

>>>>>>>> You are propagating myth that is popular among ignorant Muslims and Hindus.

Fact is even 100 years after the Palashi war, leaders of all religious communities came to Bahadur Shah Zafar to lead them to freedom against the colonial masters. Unfortunately Bahadur Shah was a moghul but did not have leadership skills necessary (he was a good poet but not a great leader) to do that. He unsuccessfully tried and defeated by the Brits.

With no English intervention, India would have become a totally different country.

>>>>>> Agree.

Muslim majority countries and minorities living in them peacefully have become the butt of the jokes. Just ask any random person!  Even Muslims fleeing from those countries, let alone non-Muslim minorities

>>>>>>>> Again I agree with you. Most Muslim majority countries have an issue with good governance. So both Muslims and non-Muslims suffer for lack of it.

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:36 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
Pot calling kettle black? The more BS from from QR with no historical reference or logic. It is rather the Muslim conquest of Indian subcontinent that put a death nail to the existence of  indigenous Hindus and Budhists. The choice was either to convert or die from the dagger.  No wonder why Dalailama feels safer in India than in Mecca. No wonder why these indigenous Indian people people did not  migrate towards the Mecca.
The problem with these organized religions is that they would love to invade other countries, concur them and establish their religious hegemony with virtually no respect to  the culture and religions of indigenous people. Hindus and Budhists were lucky that English came at the right time and put a stop of that organized religious crime. With no English intervention, India would have become a totally different country.

Muslim majority countries and minorities living in them peacefully have become the butt of the jokes. Just ask any random person!  Even Muslims fleeing from those countries, let alone non-Muslim minorities

I bet this man lives in a hole without any light and air. 

Here is the helpful impartial link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Buddhism_in_India

-SD
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
As I said, ancient India's hatred for non-Hindus is also goes back to ancient times. It has gotten a bit better from the time Buddhists were driven away from the very birthplace of Buddhism (India) but still anti-Muslim (Recently anti-Christian) feeling is pretty strong among middle and upper class Indians.

The Sangh has been steadily doing it since as far back as 1947, when the ICS officer Madhav Godbole seized a trunk full of RSS maps and plans for ethnic cleansing of Muslims.

>>>>>>>>>> because of that environment Bangabandhu chose to work for Muslim League and worked hard to create Pakistan. He was progressive and mostly took positions to reflect aspiration of people. Which lead him to take a different position during 71 and rightfully so.

We hope India will lead the region as a beacon of democracy and motivate other countries to empower democracy in their system and focus on protecting common people from religious Bigots.

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Totonji Al Hajj <ahmadtotonji@yahoo.com>
To: undisclosed recipients: ;
Sent: Sun, Jun 16, 2013 11:07 am
Subject: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
---------- Forwarded message ----------
 
News Analysis
Moment of Truth
Dr. Mohammad Manzoor Alam asks countrymen and women to give a moment's thought to where the country is headed for as corporate media tomtoms Modi as next Prime Minister.

Narendra Modi of Gujarat 2002 infamy is on a roll. India's corporate media is acting as if the silent majority spread over villages, talukas, mofassils, district towns, state capitals and NCR does not exist, as if it is not the "Little Citizen" who will decide the future of India with his precious vote, but the corporate boss sitting in his air-conditioned cabin and the moneybag manipulating things from behind the screen. People are still important, and urban middle class Modi fans are not the only people India has: Modiwadis are just a small fraction of the sea of humanity called Bharat.

What is bothersome is the inspiration behind Moditva, and the methodologies and modalities it employs. The inspiration, as the RSS stalwart Guru Golwalker clearly explained in his We, or Our Nationhood Defined decades back, is Hitler and his Nazi party. Golwalker approvingly talks about Hitler's genocide of Jews to be replicated in India by a similar mass murder of Muslims. Since then the Sangh and its fronts like BJP, VHP, Bajrang Dal and others have been busy creating new opportunities for mass murder of Muslims through smaller "riots" (like 37 episodes under Akhilesh rule in UP) or bigger pogroms like Ayodhya 92 and Gujarat 2002.

The Sangh has been steadily doing it since as far back as 1947, when the ICS officer Madhav Godbole seized a trunk full of RSS maps and plans for ethnic cleansing of Muslims
. They have not always succeeded in polarising and dividing people because of the primarily secular and plural nature of India. For reaching 102 seats in Parliament from a mere two they staged the mass killing of Muslims in 1992-93. Mr Modi took up the Sangh torch of hatred from LK Advani, who had emerged as a "hero" in their voters' eyes just because of the anti-Muslim hysteria he had created.

Modi was protected from being sacked in 2002 by then Deputy Prime Minister and Home Minister Advani. His sacking would have been justified because of his dereliction of duty (to some, collusion with rioters) in the anti-Muslim pogrom. The Sangh has consistently been undermining the Constitution's secular values. During NDA rule it even tried to change it.

What is happening today is ominously similar to what happened in the Germany of 1933 and the rise of Hitler with the help of German industry. Today, some of India's major industrialists and their corporate media are openly backing Mr Modi as the future prime minster who will increase their profits by demolishing all the democratic and secular institutions of the state of India and by ensuring maximum profit on investments. What happens to people who are not industrialists, the preponderant majority of this country?

Mahabharata, the account of the greatest fratricidal war ever, fascinates both Mr Modi and Mr Advani. A Mahabharata against Muslims of India is the dream of the Sangh stalwarts. The choice between Mr Modi and Mr Advani is that between a rock and a hard place.

By and large, the choice today is between constitutional rule and fascist thuggery; between the common good of the masses, the farmers, the working classes in villages, towns and cities, the peace-loving people of goodwill everywhere on one side and corporate money and Hitler's chelas on the other.

The choice is very clear, very unambiguous. It is a choice between the idea of India and chaos.
 
 


















__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth



The non-fighting attitude still continues with the Tibetians. Within fifty years time, Buddhist's Tibet is going to be just another history.
-SD

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 1:43 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
There is no religion as such known as Hinduism.  The Persians called the brown skins Hindus. Buddhism was made important by the Saint Upagupta and his disciple Emperor Asoka the Great.  King Bimbisara was a disciple of Buddha.  He was dethroned by his son Ajathasathru.  Ajathasathru was less successful in eliminating Buddhism than Pushyamithra Sunga, a General in the army of Maurya Dynasty.  However, from the time of Buddha to the end of Maura Dynasty, the chief deity among the Hindus was Lord Shiva.  Even Buddha had been portrayed as Budo-Shiva.  I had been to the place where Kalinga war happened and Ashoka was anointed to Buddhism.  The Japanese Govt. had constructed a temple there to commemorate the conversion.  The temple has Shiva Lingam and a Bull among the icons which are clearly belong to Shiva.  The conversion of the Buddhists occurred mostly about a thousand years afterwards.  Some violence might have occurred during the rule of Ajathasathru or Pushyamithra Sunga, nothing compared to the Mohammedan atrocities.  I hope that Stupid Rahman would be able to appreciate the difference.  The Buddhists in India not only did not fight against the Muslim invaders, in many instances they acted as fifth columnists.


On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
There was a time when Indian Hindus let Buddhism to flourish in India. But the philosophical debate continued to show that these two religions are not qualitatively that different from each other. And that is why a Hindu would not have any problem accepting a Buddhist in his/her family and a Buddhist family would not mind to do the same. I am afraid, this can't be said about Muslims.

So, Buddhists being vanished is rather a myth that has been created by a vested group to cover up their own atrocities on many indigenous Indian people. Reference of Sikh massacre is readily available if Mr. Rahman wants to review that. Just ask me, I can add more. There was no doubt that there was a Hindu revival to fight back the foreign invaders when Buddhists were totally reluctant to fight due to their non violence principle. With more people becoming Buddhists and their total non-violence attitude towards invaders and plunderers would have made India virtually an inviting country to invade and enslave. Not that it did not happen later. Buddhists just did not want to fight the invaders from the west and they sought safe haven in the east. Who can blame them? But eventually, they figured out that they could not just chant, they had to fight back to survive. Thank God, they saw the fighting light of Buddha!


The two bottom paragraphs by Jain tell it all. However, the Buddhist passivity is not discussed at all. A critical factor why Buddhists got reabsorbed in Hinduism again.
-SD

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/pankaj-jain-phd/buddhism-origin-spread-decline_b_939679.html

Buddhism: Origin, Spread and Decline

Pankaj Jain, Ph.D.
  • "Inclusivist nature of Hinduism
    In the course of 1700 years of co-existence the Hindus had taken over a great deal from the Buddhists and vice versa, e.g., Buddhists started building temples of the Buddha and Bodhisattva. They started worshipping the Buddha as the ultimate creator and preserver of the universe. Carl Jung mentions in "The Tibetan Book of the Great Liberation" that in Buddhism, the different gods are symbolic representations. This may be an influence of Hinduism on Buddhism. In consequence, the division between Buddhism and Hinduism had increasingly diminished and it was no surprise for a Buddhist to be absorbed into the largely Buddhified Hindu fold. The philosophy of Nagarjuna had been absorbed into the Vedanta by Gaudapada, Sankara's teacher; just as the Vaishnavas of later times were greatly indebted to the Buddhists (Bhagavat Purana incorporated the Buddha as the ninth Avatar of Vishnu). The Buddhists Tantras had provoked their Hindu counterparts, which abound with references to Mahayana deities. Eventually, separate existence of Buddhism did not serve any useful purpose. Its disappearance thus was no loss to anyone.
  • Islamic invasions
    By the time of the Muslim conquest, the separate identity of Buddhism resided primarily in its great monasteries and universities. The distinctively dressed monks, all concentrated at these places were an easily identifiable target for Muslim zealotry. Hinduism, by contrast, had no identifiable heart at which to strike. It had succeeded in pervading Indian society while Buddhism had become increasingly isolated in monasteries and universities. Buddhist monks offered no resistance to the invasions, partly in obedience to their vows, and partly because they believed that astrological calculations have shown that Muslims would in any case conquer Hindustan. The destruction of Nalanda in 1197 AD and of Vikramashila in 1203 AD by Muhammad Ghori marks the end of Buddhism in India."

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 7:39 AM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
you had no idea how data was compiled.

>>>>>>>>> I have shared the sources of that survey with the whole forum. Even that data was audited and problems were fixed BEFORE it was published by people who are experts in preparing such data. I do not know why do you keep asking the SAME question over and over?

You brought it for the forum, it is your burden to prove your position. I only question the validity of your point.

>>>>>>>>> No you got mad at me for sharing a survey about India. guess you are very protective of India!!

Anyway, I'll share some information about Hindu persecution of Buddhist population in India. All of us know that, Buddhism was introduced in India but it vanished from India later on. However we can see even today Buddhism bloomed very well outside of India. Here are some info...


.....Historian S. R. Goyal has attributed the decline and disappearance of Buddhism from India to the hostility of the Brahmanas. An incident oft cited is the destruction of the Bo Tree and Buddhist images by Saivite King, Shashanka, persecution by Pusyamitra Sunga (185 BC to 151 BC) who detested the Law of the Buddha had set fire to the Sutras, destroyed Stupas, razed Samgharamas and massacred Bhikkus and even killed the deity of the Bodhi tree. There is also mention of the Huna onslaught on Taxila (in Pakistan), the persecution of Buddhist monks by Mihirkula.
Incidentally, though Moghuls are accused of destroying Hindu temples, most of these temples were actually built on Buddhist shrine sites. Results of Moghul invasions were many too - Somapura Mahavihara (now in Bangladesh) was set ablaze. Odantapuri Mahavihara close to Nalanda was razed to the ground in 1199 CE after killing all the monks and Bodhgaya was attacked as well. Though there is evidence that even a century beyond the Muslim conquest Buddhism remained in places like Gaya till the end of the 14th century which disproves the notion that Muslim conquest was not singularly responsible for the decline of Buddhism in India.

[ Source:  Why Buddhism prospered in Asia but died in India ]


How the Buddhists and Jains were Persecuted in Ancient India.



CONTRIBUTING FACTORS FOR THE DISAPPEARANCE OF BUDDHISM FROM INDIA




If you need more information about this topic, just ask. I'll add tons more on it.



Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2013 1:09 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
The way you discuss and present facts, anybody can guess the quality of such discussions that you had have in the past. You bring the same issue again from no where and yet, you can't produce a single historical reference. You brought it for the forum, it is your burden to prove your position. I only question the validity of your point. Last time, you talked about the most racist people in the world and you had no idea how data was compiled. You have no clue about their methodology and yet you take that as truth. Do you understand what I mean??  If you feel inadequate about these issues, do not get involved! Chant few verses and be happy!
-SD

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
Member SD,

As I said, we have discussed this subject in detail, just search and find it within Mukto-mona forum.

However if you are firm in denying that, Buddhists were not persecuted by Hindu? Let me know.

I am saying they were severely persecuted by Hindus (Sanatana Dharma). 


Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 7:42 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
It was an error that I corrected almost immediately with an additional post. You have finally proven yourself as a certified idiot!
So, where is reference? Produce it for the forum or confess that you do not have it!
-SD
 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
I do not think I need to answer this one

>>>>>>>> of course. That is the reason you wrote they were west bound!

Makes perfect sense.

They were persecuted by Hindus of India and were force to leave the country they used to rule. That is history. No argument needed.

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jun 19, 2013 12:02 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
I do not think I need to answer this one. It was obvious which direction they moved. And, that does not ring any bell to you?
It is you who started the Budhist persecution with the full knowledge that real culprits are well documented in my reference. Why can't you use frontal part of your brain? Bring your reference to make yourself credible! Can you? would you?
-SD
 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: QR <qrahman@aim.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 

Why not produce some intelligent references how Budhists were persecuted in India and how come they did migrate towards the West for sanctuary?

>>>>>>>>> BTW, the Buddhists went east. Not west. They went all over the orient.

This topic has been discussed with a load of references. Please move your rear end and find out from previous mukto-mona discussions. You will find a lot of interesting discussions as well.


Shalom!



-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 18, 2013 8:40 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
Why not produce some intelligent references how Budhists were persecuted in India and how come they did migrate towards the West for sanctuary? My fundamental problem is with your not providing references and facts that we need for an objective discussion. Do you understand?
-SD

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
Pot calling kettle black? The more BS from from QR with no historical reference or logic. It is rather the Muslim conquest of Indian subcontinent that put a death nail to the existence of  indigenous Hindus and Budhists. The choice was either to convert or die from the dagger.  No wonder why Dalailama feels safer in India than in Mecca. No wonder why these indigenous Indian people people did not  migrate towards the Mecca.

>>>>>>>> Why Mecca?

Maybe you were not here. We have discussed this episode in great detail here.

Dalailama is from Tibet and he took shelter in India because of his problem with Chinese communists. India still have many issues with China and gave refuge to the Dalai Lama. Not sure why the Lama will need to go to Mecca?  :-)

The problem with these organized religions is that they would love to invade other countries, concur them and establish their religious hegemony with virtually no respect to  the culture and religions of indigenous people

>>>>>>>> The fundamental problem is you do not what you are talking about. India was NEVER a single country UNTIL the Muslims reached India. The greater India concept was introduced by Muslim rulers and even the name "Hindustan" was given by Muslims!!

Hindus and Budhists were lucky that English came at the right time and put a stop of that organized religious crime.

>>>>>>>> You are propagating myth that is popular among ignorant Muslims and Hindus.

Fact is even 100 years after the Palashi war, leaders of all religious communities came to Bahadur Shah Zafar to lead them to freedom against the colonial masters. Unfortunately Bahadur Shah was a moghul but did not have leadership skills necessary (he was a good poet but not a great leader) to do that. He unsuccessfully tried and defeated by the Brits.

With no English intervention, India would have become a totally different country.

>>>>>> Agree.

Muslim majority countries and minorities living in them peacefully have become the butt of the jokes. Just ask any random person!  Even Muslims fleeing from those countries, let alone non-Muslim minorities

>>>>>>>> Again I agree with you. Most Muslim majority countries have an issue with good governance. So both Muslims and non-Muslims suffer for lack of it.

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:36 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
Pot calling kettle black? The more BS from from QR with no historical reference or logic. It is rather the Muslim conquest of Indian subcontinent that put a death nail to the existence of  indigenous Hindus and Budhists. The choice was either to convert or die from the dagger.  No wonder why Dalailama feels safer in India than in Mecca. No wonder why these indigenous Indian people people did not  migrate towards the Mecca.
The problem with these organized religions is that they would love to invade other countries, concur them and establish their religious hegemony with virtually no respect to  the culture and religions of indigenous people. Hindus and Budhists were lucky that English came at the right time and put a stop of that organized religious crime. With no English intervention, India would have become a totally different country.

Muslim majority countries and minorities living in them peacefully have become the butt of the jokes. Just ask any random person!  Even Muslims fleeing from those countries, let alone non-Muslim minorities

I bet this man lives in a hole without any light and air. 

Here is the helpful impartial link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Buddhism_in_India

-SD
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
As I said, ancient India's hatred for non-Hindus is also goes back to ancient times. It has gotten a bit better from the time Buddhists were driven away from the very birthplace of Buddhism (India) but still anti-Muslim (Recently anti-Christian) feeling is pretty strong among middle and upper class Indians.

The Sangh has been steadily doing it since as far back as 1947, when the ICS officer Madhav Godbole seized a trunk full of RSS maps and plans for ethnic cleansing of Muslims.

>>>>>>>>>> because of that environment Bangabandhu chose to work for Muslim League and worked hard to create Pakistan. He was progressive and mostly took positions to reflect aspiration of people. Which lead him to take a different position during 71 and rightfully so.

We hope India will lead the region as a beacon of democracy and motivate other countries to empower democracy in their system and focus on protecting common people from religious Bigots.

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Totonji Al Hajj <ahmadtotonji@yahoo.com>
To: undisclosed recipients: ;
Sent: Sun, Jun 16, 2013 11:07 am
Subject: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
---------- Forwarded message ----------
 
News Analysis
Moment of Truth
Dr. Mohammad Manzoor Alam asks countrymen and women to give a moment's thought to where the country is headed for as corporate media tomtoms Modi as next Prime Minister.

Narendra Modi of Gujarat 2002 infamy is on a roll. India's corporate media is acting as if the silent majority spread over villages, talukas, mofassils, district towns, state capitals and NCR does not exist, as if it is not the "Little Citizen" who will decide the future of India with his precious vote, but the corporate boss sitting in his air-conditioned cabin and the moneybag manipulating things from behind the screen. People are still important, and urban middle class Modi fans are not the only people India has: Modiwadis are just a small fraction of the sea of humanity called Bharat.

What is bothersome is the inspiration behind Moditva, and the methodologies and modalities it employs. The inspiration, as the RSS stalwart Guru Golwalker clearly explained in his We, or Our Nationhood Defined decades back, is Hitler and his Nazi party. Golwalker approvingly talks about Hitler's genocide of Jews to be replicated in India by a similar mass murder of Muslims. Since then the Sangh and its fronts like BJP, VHP, Bajrang Dal and others have been busy creating new opportunities for mass murder of Muslims through smaller "riots" (like 37 episodes under Akhilesh rule in UP) or bigger pogroms like Ayodhya 92 and Gujarat 2002.

The Sangh has been steadily doing it since as far back as 1947, when the ICS officer Madhav Godbole seized a trunk full of RSS maps and plans for ethnic cleansing of Muslims
. They have not always succeeded in polarising and dividing people because of the primarily secular and plural nature of India. For reaching 102 seats in Parliament from a mere two they staged the mass killing of Muslims in 1992-93. Mr Modi took up the Sangh torch of hatred from LK Advani, who had emerged as a "hero" in their voters' eyes just because of the anti-Muslim hysteria he had created.

Modi was protected from being sacked in 2002 by then Deputy Prime Minister and Home Minister Advani. His sacking would have been justified because of his dereliction of duty (to some, collusion with rioters) in the anti-Muslim pogrom. The Sangh has consistently been undermining the Constitution's secular values. During NDA rule it even tried to change it.

What is happening today is ominously similar to what happened in the Germany of 1933 and the rise of Hitler with the help of German industry. Today, some of India's major industrialists and their corporate media are openly backing Mr Modi as the future prime minster who will increase their profits by demolishing all the democratic and secular institutions of the state of India and by ensuring maximum profit on investments. What happens to people who are not industrialists, the preponderant majority of this country?

Mahabharata, the account of the greatest fratricidal war ever, fascinates both Mr Modi and Mr Advani. A Mahabharata against Muslims of India is the dream of the Sangh stalwarts. The choice between Mr Modi and Mr Advani is that between a rock and a hard place.

By and large, the choice today is between constitutional rule and fascist thuggery; between the common good of the masses, the farmers, the working classes in villages, towns and cities, the peace-loving people of goodwill everywhere on one side and corporate money and Hitler's chelas on the other.

The choice is very clear, very unambiguous. It is a choice between the idea of India and chaos.
 
 

















__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___