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Thursday, February 16, 2012

Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2



For Mr. Rahman:
1. I meant subsequent suras became more progressive. Karen Armstrong as example mentioned one. Initially suras were being addressed to men. Some important pointed that out to Muhammed. From that point on suras were addressed to both men and women. I hope Armstrong has read the Koran well.
2. There is a quote from a sura (quoted in one of the earlier messages) which teaches to kill an infidel. But Muhammed's instruction on how to deal with Christians is great. See it somewhere below. I find these two conflicting. 
3. That Islam has been hijaked is not my invention. 
4. Examples of insanity in the name of Islam: burning churches, bombing mosques to kill musollis, killing Kadianis, stoning a woman to death for alleged adultery, and see more examples in previous Talibani Afghanistan. These are being done by people indoctrinate into a version of Islam which, according to you, is not probably the true Islam. I think that is what has been termed "hijacked Islam" by Karen Armstrong. 
      
For Dr. Roy:
By mistake I wrote "holy" for "unholy". I wanted to say, "The Geeta is not only unholy to you, to you it is also not worth reading." Sorry for the typo. 

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 5:18 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2
 
Thanks for opinions shared here. I'll try to offer some clarifications to mentioned "Concerns" about religion (Here we are talking about Islam!).

This problem arises out of conflicting teachings

>>>>>>>>>> If there is anything seems "Conflicting" to you, simply bring it up and we can discuss it. over time the Koranic teachings became more and more liberal and progressive. >>>>>>>>>> Actually not even one word from the holy Qur'an was "Changed" over 1400+ years. I think you are talking about how Qur'an is being interpreted became more "Liberal". I agree with it. One good example of it would be about taking pictures. Many Muslim scholars used to think taking pictures was strictly prohibited because it would lead to worshiping that person (As we see in communist countries, Christians etc). However for last few decades, they understood pictures are mostly used to "IDENTIFY" a person (In passports, national ID cards etc) in most cases and fatwas were given allowing taking pictures.  Another positive sign I see that Muslims became more tolerant of themselves. In Bangladesh I used to see people judging others harshly over smallest differences of offering prayers (Namaj/salaat). Now a days you can offer salat/namaj without a cap in any masjid. Which was unthinkable even twenty years ago. Why do we see all the insanity despite all the great teachings out there? >>>>>>>> As per my observation two mains reason would be 1) Lack of education about Islam. 2) Politicians abusing Islam to attain their political goals. Of course there are more reasons but these are two main reasons. Has it now been hijacked by the fanatics?
>>>>>>>>>> Isn't it obvious? I think fanatics (Blind followers) hijacked "Souls of religions" in most parts of the world. You look at India and some statements coming out of it, you look at the USA (How conservatives are taking over the media!), you look at Afghanistan, Pakistan or Israel.

This hijacking is not limited to one religion rather modern media and communication tools make it easy to act of it. Not complaining just explaining. :-)

are there any loopholes in the entire system that make abuses or commitment of crimes in the name of Islam easy?
>>>>>>>>>>> Well not only Islam. This goes for all religions and even in communist countries.
The main ingredients of "Abuse/loopholes" is our greed for power and money. NO where in communism it says, you HAVE to hand down powers to your son ONLY. But communist leader of North Korea did just that. In this respect, they are NO different than Saudi Arabia!!

No where in Islam it says, you have to give power to a nation to ONE family only. Same goes for our own political parties. No matter you support BNP, BAL, Shammobadi party (Leftist), you will see sons and daughters of party leaders are holding posts of power. Where in our constitution it gave that power to our party leaders?

It is our own human shortcomings that "Corrupts" religion like Islam and make it look bad. That is why  I stay away from supporting any political platforms and try to stick to authentic teachings of Islam as much as possible. For the same reason, I try my best to supply references for the readers.

they are not holy; are they?

>>>>>>>>>> Actually most books are holy if one does not molest the verses. A very liberal verse of the Qur'an (Surah Tauba 9:5) were abused by Islamophobes and they certainly twisted the meaning of the verse by taking one verse out of context.

Now if one "CHOSE" to ignore the book and want to run with one verse to validate their rage against religion, it is NOT the fault of the book. It is a problem of that person!!


I believe all scriptures have the same problem,
>>>>>>>>> Everyone has the right to have an opinion. As long it is based on solid scholarship, it is credible.


so you have to use your human judgments to pick which ones to follow.

>>>>>>>>> I like this idea a lot. If anyone want to analyze any dispassionate analysis of any religion, it is a good place to start. Our own Bengali philosophers of talked about our "Bibek" (Conscious) in judging right from wrong.

Islam simply puts these in a structured form. For me that, "Structure" makes me a better person. I am selfish, so as long it helps me, I like it.

Take it easy.
:-)

Shalom!

-----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Feb 16, 2012 7:37 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2
 

People consider something so noble and holy, yet we cannot accept or practice everything in there. Isn't that a problem? If we have to pick and choose certain instructions from these books, they are not holy; are they?
I believe all scriptures have the same problem, so you have to use your human judgments to pick which ones to follow. It's nice to see that our good old human judgment rules the day; I am not complaining.
Jiten Roy --- On Wed, 2/15/12, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 15, 2012, 7:25 PM

 
I must thank Mr. Das as well as Mr. Rahman for enlightening us with the Koranic knowledge. Mr. Das now seems to see the same problem as I do when it comes to judging the teachings of a religion. This problem arises out of conflicting teachings which is not easy to demystify. As far as I know the Suras in the Koran have not been compiled chronologically. But as I understand (I am indebted to K. Armstrong in this reagard), over time the Koranic teachings became more and more liberal and progressive. I see the Muhammad's speech during his last pilgrimage as a very progressive one. Even the one quoted below and the one quoted in a different meassage on reatment with Christians (four years before his death) are very commendable. I hope nobody will accuse me of being apologetic of Islam. I will prefer counter-arguments to an accusation. I am a half-literate man and still a sincere learner.
I have a question. Why do we see all the insanity despite all the great teachings out there? Is K. Armstrong right? Were the Koranic teachings abused throughout these 1500 years? Has it now been hijacked by the fanatics? Or are there any loopholes in the entire system that make abuses or commitment of crimes in the name of Islam easy?
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2
 
Apparently, the wise qar is wiser than A. J. Arberry, and may be wiser than the messenger Gibreel!
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 1:17 AM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
Again coping from orientalist "Crap".

The Surah Taubah verse (Chapter 9:5) has NOTHING to do with killing everyone. Again READ the chapter and gain some knowledge before you want to critic it.


I am offering a link to the whole chapter. FEEL FREE to read it and judge it for yourself. We have NOTHING to hide and it is consistent with peaceful teaching of Islam.


And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not. How can there be a treaty with Allah and with His messenger for the idolaters save those with whom ye made a treaty at the Inviolable Place of Worship? So long as they are true to you, be true to them. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty. How (can there be any treaty for the others) when, if they have the upper hand of you, they regard not pact nor honour in respect of you? They satisfy you with their mouths the while their hearts refuse. And most of them are wrongdoers. [ Source: Al Qur'an chapter 9:6-8]
Once again this was all about some idol worshipers of Mecca BREAKING a peace treaty with Muslims. The Qur'an specifically said to give protection to all those who honored their pledges. Hope it helps..... Shalom!!!
-----Original Message----- From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:47 pm Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2
  
108. Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. Thus have We made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end will they return to their Lord, and We shall then tell them the truth of all that they did. This is a Meccan Verse, where Allah/Muhammad is hopeful of convincing the non-believers that 'we are on the right path'. This however is amply contradicted in the verses revealed in Medina, e.g., "Slay wherever you find them"; "Fight those who believe not in Allah and the last day and do not forbid what God and his messenger have forbidden....fight the unbelievers totally..." elsewhere in the same verse(Surah al-Tawba). Such examples are numerous, I just cited two of them. On 2/14/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote: > I will check the Sura, if Mr. Chakravarty wants me to do it. The problem > is that the 'Holy Quran' and 'Holy Hadith' are full of contradictions, or > contra-indications as Mr. Zakir Naik loves to call them. It is good, if > the religious persons abide by the appeasing Surahs rather than the > inciting ones. As evidenced by history, Jihad might bring about their own > destruction sooner than the doom's day. The almighty Allah may not always > serve the cause of Islam. > > On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:39 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty > <subimal@yahoo.com>wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Probably Kamal Das can verify if the Sura quoted below by Mr. Hannan is >> right. If it is really there, I have broadness of mind to praise it. >> Assuming it is there, does Mr. Hannan really believe in it? I am >> suspicious >> as their role was quite different in 1971. Also their attitude towards >> Ahmediyas is not consistent with what he is proudly quoting. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 13, 2012, at 8:34 AM, Robin Khundkar <rkhundkar@earthlink.net> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> *Calling off the attack dogs after the deed is done Eh Mr Ex >> Secretary.... with the mile long CV ! * >> >> *Oh how generous of you!! I recommend you be awarded the HUMANITARIAN of >> the year!!! * >> >> *You are the very essense of Human Kindness!!! * >> >> *Very Touching!!!!! * >> >> *NOT........* >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: S A Hannan ** >> Sent: Feb 12, 2012 7:59 PM >> To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com, 'Mohiuddin Anwar' **, >> ovimot@yahoogroups.com, faithcomilla@gmail.com, chottola@yahoogroups.com, >> dahuk@yahoogroups.com, nazrulic@gmail.com >> Cc: chottala@yahoogroups.com, chetona71@yahoogroups.com, >> jnrsr53@yahoo.com, >> guhasb@gmail.com, joybanglanews@gmail.com, captchowdhury@yahoo.ca, >> srbanunz@gmail.com, manik195709@yahoo.com, deshpremik197159@yahoo.com, >> rkhundkar@earthlink.net, farida_majid@hotmail.com >> Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2 >> >> ********** **************** ** ******************************** >> >> If any injustice is done any where on Hindus, this is Haram.Destroying >> their temples or deities is Haram.( See verse 108 of Sura Anam, one of >> the >> verses from which these rules have been derived by Muslim jurists).Any >> Hindu Bashing is prohibited in Islam.**** >> >> All criminals should be punished.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> No bashing of any religious community is acceptable.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Shah Abdul Hannan**** >> >> ** ** >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* **mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com** [mailto:** >> mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**] *On Behalf Of *Anis Ahmed >> *Sent:* Monday, February 13, 2012 12:02 AM >> *To:* Mohiuddin Anwar; ovimot@yahoogroups.com; faithcomilla@gmail.com; ** >> mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**; chottola@yahoogroups.com; >> dahuk@yahoogroups.com; **nazrul**ic@gmail.com >> *Cc:* chottala@yahoogroups.com; chetona71@yahoogroups.com; >> jnrsr53@yahoo.com; guhasb@gmail.com; joybanglanews@gmail.com; >> captchowdhury@yahoo.ca; srbanunz@gmail.com; manik195709@yahoo.com; >> deshpremik197159@yahoo.com; rkhundkar@earthlink.net; >> farida_majid@hotmail.com >> *Subject:* [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2**** >> >> ** ** >> >> **** >> **** >> >> Mr Anwar you have not been able to refute my arguments that a crime is a >> crime and it should not be identified by one's religious beliefs. I >> suspect >> , you haven't understood my point. If Sheikh Hasina or her party is doing >> anything mischievous , people will vote them out as did Khaleda Zia in >> 2008 following a chain of terorrist attacks and major killings. **** >> >> ** ** >> >> Moreover, if Hasina does not punish Pijush it may be for a number reasons >> , (a) Pijush perhaps did not kill the Shibir Cadres, (b) Hasina probably >> will protect Pijush from partisan point of view which is really bad >> although not new in the history of ****Bangladesh**** politics . We may >> not forget how Mrs Zia protected Bangla Bhai and their associates in her >> party calling it merely as media propaganda. So both of them have been >> subject to identical criticism . **** >> >> ** ** >> >> However , why do you have to bring in ****India**** here even if Hasina >> wrongfully protects Pijush. Pijush is a Bangladeshi citizen . He has got >> absolutely nothing to do with ****India**** . So you're still playing the >> role of a propagandist rather than being objectively critical of the >> mistakes which the government may have been making . Your deliberate >> attempt to bring in unconnected points for the sake of propaganda is >> subject to criticism . I have made my points absolutely clear but I wont >> support your fishing in the troubled water:).**** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Mohiuddin Anwar <mohiuddin@netzero.net> >> *To:* aanis06@yahoo.com; ovimot@yahoogroups.com; faithcomilla@gmail.com; >> * >> *mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**; chottola@yahoogroups.com; >> dahuk@yahoogroups.com; **nazrul**ic@gmail.com >> *Cc:* ovimot@yahoogroups.com; chottala@yahoogroups.com; >> chetona71@yahoogroups.com; chottola@yahoogroups.com; jnrsr53@yahoo.com; >> guhasb@gmail.com; **mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**; >> joybanglanews@gmail.com; >> captchowdhury@yahoo.ca; srbanunz@gmail.com; manik195709@yahoo.com; >> deshpremik197159@yahoo.com; rkhundkar@earthlink.net; >> farida_majid@hotmail.com >> *Sent:* Sunday, February 12, 2012 12:24 PM >> *Subject:* Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2 **** >> >> ** ** >> >> Mr. Anis,**** >> >> **** >> >> I can challenge to you that, current ****India**** friendly Hasina regime >> won't arrest or disturb or prosecute Criminal killer Chatro League's >> armed >> cadre Pijush.**** >> >> Do you accept my challenge pleaere say yes or no.**** >> >> Don't bring other killings of the past to compare recent killing of two >> Chatro League opponents in Chottogram by golden boy of Hasina Sri >> Pijush. >> **** >> >> When we see a ruling party cadre attacking their opponents in and >> photographed by news reporters and Piolice taking no action to arrest the >> killers,**** >> >> we can imagine that jungles rule is prevailing under India-friendly >> Hasina regime.**** >> >> Jungles rule must end in Bangladeshn sooner than later.**** >> >> Those who protectinmg the killers will pay heavy price in coming days, >> make no doubt about it. Nobody can protectr the killers forever..**** >> >> All Pijush's will be prosecuted Inshallah.**** >> >> Thanks for your time to read my comment.**** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> >> ---------- Original Message ---------- >> From: Anis Ahmed <aanis06@yahoo.com> >> To: Mohiuddin Anwar <mohiuddin@netzero.net>, "ovimot@yahoogroups.com" < >> ovimot@yahoogroups.com>, "chottala@yahoogroups.com" < >> chottala@yahoogroups.com>, "chetona71@yahoogroups.com" < >> chetona71@yahoogroups.com>, "chottola@yahoogroups.com" < >> chottola@yahoogroups.com> >> Cc: "jnrsr53@yahoo.com" <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>, "guhasb@gmail.com" < >> guhasb@gmail.com>, "**mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**" <** >> mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**>, "joybanglanews@gmail.com" < >> joybanglanews@gmail.com>, "captchowdhury@yahoo.ca" < >> captchowdhury@yahoo.ca>, "srbanunz@gmail.com" <srbanunz@gmail.com>, " >> manik195709@yahoo.com" <manik195709@yahoo.com>, " >> deshpremik197159@yahoo.com" <deshpremik197159@yahoo.com>, " >> rkhundkar@earthlink.net" <rkhundkar@earthlink.net>, " >> farida_majid@hotmail.com" <farida_majid@hotmail.com
> >> Subject: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2 >> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 23:24:23 -0800 (PST)**** >> >> ** ** >> >> **** >> ******** >> >> >> > ------------------------------------ **************************************************** Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: Call For Articles:
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Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2



Something written by men cannot be holy. Such status was given, in those days, to these books to sustain monopoly of the religious business. Ordinary people could not even touch those books; only some holy men had access to them. Now, everything is on the net, so - it does not require holiness anymore to access those books. But, most people are still using the older version of the software in their brains. They did not get the message. I would like them to update their brains to the latest version of the software. May be - that will fix the misunderstanding.

Some people think those books are codes of life; fine - follow them, but, please don't start worshipping them.Jiten Roy

--- On Thu, 2/16/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, February 16, 2012, 9:16 PM

 
As the psychiatrists say, there is nothing called 'superiority complex', it grows out of 'inferiority complex'.  It applies to those who consider themselves as the 'best avatar/prophet' etc.

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 11:18 AM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Personally nothing is holy to me. The Geeta is not only holy to you, it is also some thing that's not worth reading. I see this as overreaction on your part. That's O.K. That's your personal opinion. But what can you do? So many people treat the Geeta as holy. Probably every Hindu family has at least one copy of this book. I know people who read the Geeta and commentaries on it regularly. I cannot claim that as human beings all of them are inferior to me. 
You cannot follow every thing in a "holy" book. So what you follow is subject to constraints.   

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:36 PM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2
 

People consider something so noble and holy, yet we cannot accept or practice everything in there. Isn't that a problem? If we have to pick and choose certain instructions from these books, they are not holy; are they?
I believe all scriptures have the same problem, so you have to use your human judgments to pick which ones to follow. It's nice to see that our good old human judgment rules the day; I am not complaining.
Jiten Roy
--- On Wed, 2/15/12, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 15, 2012, 7:25 PM

 
I must thank Mr. Das as well as Mr. Rahman for enlightening us with the Koranic knowledge. Mr. Das now seems to see the same problem as I do when it comes to judging the teachings of a religion. This problem arises out of conflicting teachings which is not easy to demystify. As far as I know the Suras in the Koran have not been compiled chronologically. But as I understand (I am indebted to K. Armstrong in this reagard), over time the Koranic teachings became more and more liberal and progressive. I see the Muhammad's speech during his last pilgrimage as a very progressive one. Even the one quoted below and the one quoted in a different meassage on reatment with Christians (four years before his death) are very commendable. I hope nobody will accuse me of being apologetic of Islam. I will prefer counter-arguments to an accusation. I am a half-literate man and still a sincere learner.
I have a question. Why do we see all the insanity despite all the great teachings out there? Is K. Armstrong right? Were the Koranic teachings abused throughout these 1500 years? Has it now been hijacked by the fanatics? Or are there any loopholes in the entire system that make abuses or commitment of crimes in the name of Islam easy?
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2
 
Apparently, the wise qar is wiser than A. J. Arberry, and may be wiser than the messenger Gibreel!
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 1:17 AM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
Again coping from orientalist "Crap".

The Surah Taubah verse (Chapter 9:5) has NOTHING to do with killing everyone. Again READ the chapter and gain some knowledge before you want to critic it.


I am offering a link to the whole chapter. FEEL FREE to read it and judge it for yourself. We have NOTHING to hide and it is consistent with peaceful teaching of Islam.


And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not. How can there be a treaty with Allah and with His messenger for the idolaters save those with whom ye made a treaty at the Inviolable Place of Worship? So long as they are true to you, be true to them. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty. How (can there be any treaty for the others) when, if they have the upper hand of you, they regard not pact nor honour in respect of you? They satisfy you with their mouths the while their hearts refuse. And most of them are wrongdoers.[ Source: Al Qur'an chapter 9:6-8]
Once again this was all about some idol worshipers of Mecca BREAKING a peace treaty with Muslims. The Qur'an specifically said to give protection to all those who honored their pledges. Hope it helps.....Shalom!!!
-----Original Message-----From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:47 pmSubject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2
108. Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. Thus have We made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end will they return to their Lord, and We shall then tell them the truth of all that they did. This is a Meccan Verse, where Allah/Muhammad is hopeful of convincing the non-believers that 'we are on the right path'. This however is amply contradicted in the verses revealed in Medina, e.g., "Slay wherever you find them"; "Fight those who believe not in Allah and the last day and do not forbid what God and his messenger have forbidden....fight the unbelievers totally..." elsewhere in the same verse(Surah al-Tawba). Such examples are numerous, I just cited two of them. On 2/14/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote: > I will check the Sura, if Mr. Chakravarty wants me to do it. The problem > is that the 'Holy Quran' and 'Holy Hadith' are full of contradictions, or > contra-indications as Mr. Zakir Naik loves to call them. It is good, if > the religious persons abide by the appeasing Surahs rather than the > inciting ones. As evidenced by history, Jihad might bring about their own > destruction sooner than the doom's day. The almighty Allah may not always > serve the cause of Islam. > > On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:39 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty > <subimal@yahoo.com>wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Probably Kamal Das can verify if the Sura quoted below by Mr. Hannan is >> right. If it is really there, I have broadness of mind to praise it. >> Assuming it is there, does Mr. Hannan really believe in it? I am >> suspicious >> as their role was quite different in 1971. Also their attitude towards >> Ahmediyas is not consistent with what he is proudly quoting. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 13, 2012, at 8:34 AM, Robin Khundkar <rkhundkar@earthlink.net> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> *Calling off the attack dogs after the deed is done Eh Mr Ex >> Secretary.... with the mile long CV ! * >> >> *Oh how generous of you!! I recommend you be awarded the HUMANITARIAN of >> the year!!! * >> >> *You are the very essense of Human Kindness!!! * >> >> *Very Touching!!!!! * >> >> *NOT........* >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: S A Hannan ** >> Sent: Feb 12, 2012 7:59 PM >> To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com, 'Mohiuddin Anwar' **, >> ovimot@yahoogroups.com, faithcomilla@gmail.com, chottola@yahoogroups.com, >> dahuk@yahoogroups.com, nazrulic@gmail.com >> Cc: chottala@yahoogroups.com, chetona71@yahoogroups.com, >> jnrsr53@yahoo.com, >> guhasb@gmail.com, joybanglanews@gmail.com, captchowdhury@yahoo.ca, >> srbanunz@gmail.com, manik195709@yahoo.com, deshpremik197159@yahoo.com, >> rkhundkar@earthlink.net, farida_majid@hotmail.com >> Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2 >> >> ********** **************** ** ******************************** >> >> If any injustice is done any where on Hindus, this is Haram.Destroying >> their temples or deities is Haram.( See verse 108 of Sura Anam, one of >> the >> verses from which these rules have been derived by Muslim jurists).Any >> Hindu Bashing is prohibited in Islam.**** >> >> All criminals should be punished.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> No bashing of any religious community is acceptable.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Shah Abdul Hannan**** >> >> ** ** >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* **mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com** [mailto:** >> mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**] *On Behalf Of *Anis Ahmed >> *Sent:* Monday, February 13, 2012 12:02 AM >> *To:* Mohiuddin Anwar; ovimot@yahoogroups.com; faithcomilla@gmail.com; ** >> mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**; chottola@yahoogroups.com; >> dahuk@yahoogroups.com; **nazrul**ic@gmail.com >> *Cc:* chottala@yahoogroups.com; chetona71@yahoogroups.com; >> jnrsr53@yahoo.com; guhasb@gmail.com; joybanglanews@gmail.com; >> captchowdhury@yahoo.ca; srbanunz@gmail.com; manik195709@yahoo.com; >> deshpremik197159@yahoo.com; rkhundkar@earthlink.net; >> farida_majid@hotmail.com >> *Subject:* [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2**** >> >> ** ** >> >> **** >> **** >> >> Mr Anwar you have not been able to refute my arguments that a crime is a >> crime and it should not be identified by one's religious beliefs. I >> suspect >> , you haven't understood my point. If Sheikh Hasina or her party is doing >> anything mischievous , people will vote them out as did Khaleda Zia in >> 2008 following a chain of terorrist attacks and major killings. **** >> >> ** ** >> >> Moreover, if Hasina does not punish Pijush it may be for a number reasons >> , (a) Pijush perhaps did not kill the Shibir Cadres, (b) Hasina probably >> will protect Pijush from partisan point of view which is really bad >> although not new in the history of ****Bangladesh**** politics . We may >> not forget how Mrs Zia protected Bangla Bhai and their associates in her >> party calling it merely as media propaganda. So both of them have been >> subject to identical criticism . **** >> >> ** ** >> >> However , why do you have to bring in ****India**** here even if Hasina >> wrongfully protects Pijush. Pijush is a Bangladeshi citizen . He has got >> absolutely nothing to do with ****India**** . So you're still playing the >> role of a propagandist rather than being objectively critical of the >> mistakes which the government may have been making . Your deliberate >> attempt to bring in unconnected points for the sake of propaganda is >> subject to criticism . I have made my points absolutely clear but I wont >> support your fishing in the troubled water:).**** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Mohiuddin Anwar <mohiuddin@netzero.net> >> *To:* aanis06@yahoo.com; ovimot@yahoogroups.com; faithcomilla@gmail.com; >> * >> *mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**; chottola@yahoogroups.com; >> dahuk@yahoogroups.com; **nazrul**ic@gmail.com >> *Cc:* ovimot@yahoogroups.com; chottala@yahoogroups.com; >> chetona71@yahoogroups.com; chottola@yahoogroups.com; jnrsr53@yahoo.com; >> guhasb@gmail.com; **mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**; >> joybanglanews@gmail.com; >> captchowdhury@yahoo.ca; srbanunz@gmail.com; manik195709@yahoo.com; >> deshpremik197159@yahoo.com; rkhundkar@earthlink.net; >> farida_majid@hotmail.com >> *Sent:* Sunday, February 12, 2012 12:24 PM >> *Subject:* Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2 **** >> >> ** ** >> >> Mr. Anis,**** >> >> **** >> >> I can challenge to you that, current ****India**** friendly Hasina regime >> won't arrest or disturb or prosecute Criminal killer Chatro League's >> armed >> cadre Pijush.**** >> >> Do you accept my challenge pleaere say yes or no.**** >> >> Don't bring other killings of the past to compare recent killing of two >> Chatro League opponents in Chottogram by golden boy of Hasina Sri >> Pijush. >> **** >> >> When we see a ruling party cadre attacking their opponents in and >> photographed by news reporters and Piolice taking no action to arrest the >> killers,**** >> >> we can imagine that jungles rule is prevailing under India-friendly >> Hasina regime.**** >> >> Jungles rule must end in Bangladeshn sooner than later.**** >> >> Those who protectinmg the killers will pay heavy price in coming days, >> make no doubt about it. Nobody can protectr the killers forever..**** >> >> All Pijush's will be prosecuted Inshallah.**** >> >> Thanks for your time to read my comment.**** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> >> ---------- Original Message ---------- >> From: Anis Ahmed <aanis06@yahoo.com> >> To: Mohiuddin Anwar <mohiuddin@netzero.net>, "ovimot@yahoogroups.com" < >> ovimot@yahoogroups.com>, "chottala@yahoogroups.com" < >> chottala@yahoogroups.com>, "chetona71@yahoogroups.com" < >> chetona71@yahoogroups.com>, "chottola@yahoogroups.com" < >> chottola@yahoogroups.com> >> Cc: "jnrsr53@yahoo.com" <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>, "guhasb@gmail.com" < >> guhasb@gmail.com>, "**mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**" <** >> mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**>, "joybanglanews@gmail.com" < >> joybanglanews@gmail.com>, "captchowdhury@yahoo.ca" < >> captchowdhury@yahoo.ca>, "srbanunz@gmail.com" <srbanunz@gmail.com>, " >> manik195709@yahoo.com" <manik195709@yahoo.com>, " >> deshpremik197159@yahoo.com" <deshpremik197159@yahoo.com>, " >> rkhundkar@earthlink.net" <rkhundkar@earthlink.net>, " >> farida_majid@hotmail.com" <farida_majid@hotmail.com
> >> Subject: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2 >> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 23:24:23 -0800 (PST)**** >> >> ** ** >> >> **** >> ******** >> >> >> > ------------------------------------ **************************************************** Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: Call For Articles:
http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68 http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585 **************************************************** VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/ ******************************
********************** "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mukto-mona-digest@yahoogroups.com mukto-mona-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: mukto-mona-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



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Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2



As the psychiatrists say, there is nothing called 'superiority complex', it grows out of 'inferiority complex'.  It applies to those who consider themselves as the 'best avatar/prophet' etc.

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 11:18 AM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Personally nothing is holy to me. The Geeta is not only holy to you, it is also some thing that's not worth reading. I see this as overreaction on your part. That's O.K. That's your personal opinion. But what can you do? So many people treat the Geeta as holy. Probably every Hindu family has at least one copy of this book. I know people who read the Geeta and commentaries on it regularly. I cannot claim that as human beings all of them are inferior to me. 
You cannot follow every thing in a "holy" book. So what you follow is subject to constraints.   

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:36 PM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2
 

People consider something so noble and holy, yet we cannot accept or practice everything in there. Isn't that a problem? If we have to pick and choose certain instructions from these books, they are not holy; are they?
I believe all scriptures have the same problem, so you have to use your human judgments to pick which ones to follow. It's nice to see that our good old human judgment rules the day; I am not complaining.
Jiten Roy
--- On Wed, 2/15/12, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 15, 2012, 7:25 PM

 
I must thank Mr. Das as well as Mr. Rahman for enlightening us with the Koranic knowledge. Mr. Das now seems to see the same problem as I do when it comes to judging the teachings of a religion. This problem arises out of conflicting teachings which is not easy to demystify. As far as I know the Suras in the Koran have not been compiled chronologically. But as I understand (I am indebted to K. Armstrong in this reagard), over time the Koranic teachings became more and more liberal and progressive. I see the Muhammad's speech during his last pilgrimage as a very progressive one. Even the one quoted below and the one quoted in a different meassage on reatment with Christians (four years before his death) are very commendable. I hope nobody will accuse me of being apologetic of Islam. I will prefer counter-arguments to an accusation. I am a half-literate man and still a sincere learner.
I have a question. Why do we see all the insanity despite all the great teachings out there? Is K. Armstrong right? Were the Koranic teachings abused throughout these 1500 years? Has it now been hijacked by the fanatics? Or are there any loopholes in the entire system that make abuses or commitment of crimes in the name of Islam easy?
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2
 
Apparently, the wise qar is wiser than A. J. Arberry, and may be wiser than the messenger Gibreel!
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 1:17 AM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
Again coping from orientalist "Crap".

The Surah Taubah verse (Chapter 9:5) has NOTHING to do with killing everyone. Again READ the chapter and gain some knowledge before you want to critic it.


I am offering a link to the whole chapter. FEEL FREE to read it and judge it for yourself. We have NOTHING to hide and it is consistent with peaceful teaching of Islam.


And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not. How can there be a treaty with Allah and with His messenger for the idolaters save those with whom ye made a treaty at the Inviolable Place of Worship? So long as they are true to you, be true to them. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty. How (can there be any treaty for the others) when, if they have the upper hand of you, they regard not pact nor honour in respect of you? They satisfy you with their mouths the while their hearts refuse. And most of them are wrongdoers.[ Source: Al Qur'an chapter 9:6-8]
Once again this was all about some idol worshipers of Mecca BREAKING a peace treaty with Muslims. The Qur'an specifically said to give protection to all those who honored their pledges. Hope it helps.....Shalom!!!
-----Original Message-----From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:47 pmSubject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2
108. Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. Thus have We made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end will they return to their Lord, and We shall then tell them the truth of all that they did. This is a Meccan Verse, where Allah/Muhammad is hopeful of convincing the non-believers that 'we are on the right path'. This however is amply contradicted in the verses revealed in Medina, e.g., "Slay wherever you find them"; "Fight those who believe not in Allah and the last day and do not forbid what God and his messenger have forbidden....fight the unbelievers totally..." elsewhere in the same verse(Surah al-Tawba). Such examples are numerous, I just cited two of them. On 2/14/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote: > I will check the Sura, if Mr. Chakravarty wants me to do it. The problem > is that the 'Holy Quran' and 'Holy Hadith' are full of contradictions, or > contra-indications as Mr. Zakir Naik loves to call them. It is good, if > the religious persons abide by the appeasing Surahs rather than the > inciting ones. As evidenced by history, Jihad might bring about their own > destruction sooner than the doom's day. The almighty Allah may not always > serve the cause of Islam. > > On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:39 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty > <subimal@yahoo.com>wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Probably Kamal Das can verify if the Sura quoted below by Mr. Hannan is >> right. If it is really there, I have broadness of mind to praise it. >> Assuming it is there, does Mr. Hannan really believe in it? I am >> suspicious >> as their role was quite different in 1971. Also their attitude towards >> Ahmediyas is not consistent with what he is proudly quoting. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 13, 2012, at 8:34 AM, Robin Khundkar <rkhundkar@earthlink.net> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> *Calling off the attack dogs after the deed is done Eh Mr Ex >> Secretary.... with the mile long CV ! * >> >> *Oh how generous of you!! I recommend you be awarded the HUMANITARIAN of >> the year!!! * >> >> *You are the very essense of Human Kindness!!! * >> >> *Very Touching!!!!! * >> >> *NOT........* >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: S A Hannan ** >> Sent: Feb 12, 2012 7:59 PM >> To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com, 'Mohiuddin Anwar' **, >> ovimot@yahoogroups.com, faithcomilla@gmail.com, chottola@yahoogroups.com, >> dahuk@yahoogroups.com, nazrulic@gmail.com >> Cc: chottala@yahoogroups.com, chetona71@yahoogroups.com, >> jnrsr53@yahoo.com, >> guhasb@gmail.com, joybanglanews@gmail.com, captchowdhury@yahoo.ca, >> srbanunz@gmail.com, manik195709@yahoo.com, deshpremik197159@yahoo.com, >> rkhundkar@earthlink.net, farida_majid@hotmail.com >> Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2 >> >> ********** **************** ** ******************************** >> >> If any injustice is done any where on Hindus, this is Haram.Destroying >> their temples or deities is Haram.( See verse 108 of Sura Anam, one of >> the >> verses from which these rules have been derived by Muslim jurists).Any >> Hindu Bashing is prohibited in Islam.**** >> >> All criminals should be punished.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> No bashing of any religious community is acceptable.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Shah Abdul Hannan**** >> >> ** ** >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* **mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com** [mailto:** >> mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**] *On Behalf Of *Anis Ahmed >> *Sent:* Monday, February 13, 2012 12:02 AM >> *To:* Mohiuddin Anwar; ovimot@yahoogroups.com; faithcomilla@gmail.com; ** >> mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**; chottola@yahoogroups.com; >> dahuk@yahoogroups.com; **nazrul**ic@gmail.com >> *Cc:* chottala@yahoogroups.com; chetona71@yahoogroups.com; >> jnrsr53@yahoo.com; guhasb@gmail.com; joybanglanews@gmail.com; >> captchowdhury@yahoo.ca; srbanunz@gmail.com; manik195709@yahoo.com; >> deshpremik197159@yahoo.com; rkhundkar@earthlink.net; >> farida_majid@hotmail.com >> *Subject:* [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2**** >> >> ** ** >> >> **** >> **** >> >> Mr Anwar you have not been able to refute my arguments that a crime is a >> crime and it should not be identified by one's religious beliefs. I >> suspect >> , you haven't understood my point. If Sheikh Hasina or her party is doing >> anything mischievous , people will vote them out as did Khaleda Zia in >> 2008 following a chain of terorrist attacks and major killings. **** >> >> ** ** >> >> Moreover, if Hasina does not punish Pijush it may be for a number reasons >> , (a) Pijush perhaps did not kill the Shibir Cadres, (b) Hasina probably >> will protect Pijush from partisan point of view which is really bad >> although not new in the history of ****Bangladesh**** politics . We may >> not forget how Mrs Zia protected Bangla Bhai and their associates in her >> party calling it merely as media propaganda. So both of them have been >> subject to identical criticism . **** >> >> ** ** >> >> However , why do you have to bring in ****India**** here even if Hasina >> wrongfully protects Pijush. Pijush is a Bangladeshi citizen . He has got >> absolutely nothing to do with ****India**** . So you're still playing the >> role of a propagandist rather than being objectively critical of the >> mistakes which the government may have been making . Your deliberate >> attempt to bring in unconnected points for the sake of propaganda is >> subject to criticism . I have made my points absolutely clear but I wont >> support your fishing in the troubled water:).**** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Mohiuddin Anwar <mohiuddin@netzero.net> >> *To:* aanis06@yahoo.com; ovimot@yahoogroups.com; faithcomilla@gmail.com; >> * >> *mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**; chottola@yahoogroups.com; >> dahuk@yahoogroups.com; **nazrul**ic@gmail.com >> *Cc:* ovimot@yahoogroups.com; chottala@yahoogroups.com; >> chetona71@yahoogroups.com; chottola@yahoogroups.com; jnrsr53@yahoo.com; >> guhasb@gmail.com; **mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**; >> joybanglanews@gmail.com; >> captchowdhury@yahoo.ca; srbanunz@gmail.com; manik195709@yahoo.com; >> deshpremik197159@yahoo.com; rkhundkar@earthlink.net; >> farida_majid@hotmail.com >> *Sent:* Sunday, February 12, 2012 12:24 PM >> *Subject:* Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2 **** >> >> ** ** >> >> Mr. Anis,**** >> >> **** >> >> I can challenge to you that, current ****India**** friendly Hasina regime >> won't arrest or disturb or prosecute Criminal killer Chatro League's >> armed >> cadre Pijush.**** >> >> Do you accept my challenge pleaere say yes or no.**** >> >> Don't bring other killings of the past to compare recent killing of two >> Chatro League opponents in Chottogram by golden boy of Hasina Sri >> Pijush. >> **** >> >> When we see a ruling party cadre attacking their opponents in and >> photographed by news reporters and Piolice taking no action to arrest the >> killers,**** >> >> we can imagine that jungles rule is prevailing under India-friendly >> Hasina regime.**** >> >> Jungles rule must end in Bangladeshn sooner than later.**** >> >> Those who protectinmg the killers will pay heavy price in coming days, >> make no doubt about it. Nobody can protectr the killers forever..**** >> >> All Pijush's will be prosecuted Inshallah.**** >> >> Thanks for your time to read my comment.**** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> >> ---------- Original Message ---------- >> From: Anis Ahmed <aanis06@yahoo.com> >> To: Mohiuddin Anwar <mohiuddin@netzero.net>, "ovimot@yahoogroups.com" < >> ovimot@yahoogroups.com>, "chottala@yahoogroups.com" < >> chottala@yahoogroups.com>, "chetona71@yahoogroups.com" < >> chetona71@yahoogroups.com>, "chottola@yahoogroups.com" < >> chottola@yahoogroups.com> >> Cc: "jnrsr53@yahoo.com" <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>, "guhasb@gmail.com" < >> guhasb@gmail.com>, "**mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**" <** >> mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**>, "joybanglanews@gmail.com" < >> joybanglanews@gmail.com>, "captchowdhury@yahoo.ca" < >> captchowdhury@yahoo.ca>, "srbanunz@gmail.com" <srbanunz@gmail.com>, " >> manik195709@yahoo.com" <manik195709@yahoo.com>, " >> deshpremik197159@yahoo.com" <deshpremik197159@yahoo.com>, " >> rkhundkar@earthlink.net" <rkhundkar@earthlink.net>, " >> farida_majid@hotmail.com" <farida_majid@hotmail.com
> >> Subject: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2 >> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 23:24:23 -0800 (PST)**** >> >> ** ** >> >> **** >> ******** >> >> >> > ------------------------------------ **************************************************** Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: Call For Articles:
http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68 http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585 **************************************************** VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/ ******************************
********************** "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mukto-mona-digest@yahoogroups.com mukto-mona-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: mukto-mona-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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