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Monday, June 10, 2013

Re: [mukto-mona] ’আর-সব ভাগ হয়ে গেলেও নজরুলকে ভ াগ করা যায় নি’



Writers should have total freedom to choose the characters they want for their fictions. They are writers, not social engineers. A good writer needs to know his/her character very well to create his/her best creation. If I do not know Rahim, why should I be forced to create that character?

We can blame Americans for the same bias against the blacks. Rather than whining, people should learn how to write and create their own fictions. Do not expect other people to write about your heroes. Ask Arab writers how many times they have portrayed Jews as their heroes?

QR should stop bitching and start writing about his fictional heroes!
-SD

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] 'আর-সব ভাগ হয়ে গেলেও নজরুলকে ভ াগ করা যায় নি'

 
I will come back. For now I must say that your reading of Kabuliwala is extremely shallow. Even in Pakistan time the education policy makers could not think the way you have thought. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 9, 2013, at 10:38 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

 
Many prominent Hindu writers including Rabindranath and Sarat Chandra have portrayed Muslim charcters in their fictions.

>>>>>>>> I am not as well read as yourself. Kindly share some of these "Muslim characters". Did they write anything more than a house servant or maid type of character? Sharot wrote a lot. How many leading characters?

I can think of "Kabuliwala" by Rabindranath who murdered another person for money. Do you know of any positive leading characters?

Rabindranath took inspiration from many bauls in Bangladesh, how many did he mention?

Hindu intellectuals towards the Muslim writers have been changing over time in a positive direction. One should be able to see it if he can shun his pre-independence Pakistani mindset.

>>>>>>> Talking about me? If that is the case, you are very wrong.

But he wrote many more "Hindu" songs than Islamic songs as the former were in greater demand at that time. It does not mean that "Hindu" songs were his artificial creations; no doubt, they came out of his poetic imagination.

>>>>>>>>>> That is what I said. Why are you so angry?

The statement that "Sheikh Mujibur Rahman rescued him from West Bengal" probably testifies to a certain kind of pre-independence Pakistani attitude on the part of Mr. Rahman. He may however enlighten us a little bit more on what he means by that.   

>>>>>>>>> It would be much more helpful, if YOU spend some time talking to Muslims or Hindus from West Bengal and find out what condition he was in. He did not even receive proper treatment. I do not have any desire to get more into this. As I said, I know much more about Nazrul than what is available to mainstream population.

If you do not agree, that is fine.

Some of you are VERY offended with a survey about India, others are angry that, I said India ignored Nazrul.

I have shared my observation and since it is not Veda or Qurán, you don't have to lose sleep over it or resort to personal attacks. West Bengal and India has serious issues with many communities. Not only about Muslims. Maybe you are not aware of them but it is futile to spend all of our time about it unless you can go beyond your opinion on it.

If I respond to your verbal abuse, you would not be able to take it. And I have NO intention to insult anyone here.

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Jun 8, 2013 3:29 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] 'আর-সব ভাগ হয়ে গেলেও নজরুলকে ভ াগ করা যায় নি'

 
The bottom line is that Nazrul was not a Muslim poet; he was much more than that which the Muslim nationalists will never comprehend.
 
Examples of Muslim poet please.
 
Rabindranath proudly called himself Rabi Baul. Many prominent Hindu writers including Rabindranath and Sarat Chandra have portrayed Muslim charcters in their fictions. Rabindranath had cordial relationship with Nazrul. Communication gap between the two societies has been closing and hence attitudes of the Hindu intellectuals towards the Muslim writers have been changing over time in a positive direction. One should be able to see it if he can shun his pre-independence Pakistani mindset. 
 
Nazrul did not sell his soul to the publishers. That is true. But he wrote many more "Hindu" songs than Islamic songs as the former were in greater demand at that time. It does not mean that "Hindu" songs were his artificial creations; no doubt, they came out of his poetic imagination.
 
The statement that "Sheikh Mujibur Rahman rescued him from West Bengal" probably testifies to a certain kind of pre-independence Pakistani attitude on the part of Mr. Rahman. He may however enlighten us a little bit more on what he means by that.      
 
 

From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 8, 2013 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] 'আর-সব ভাগ হয়ে গেলেও নজরুলকে ভ াগ করা যায় নি'
 
I agree with your understanding of Nazrul. Just wanted to add my thoughts here. I do not feel that, there is anything wrong with being a Muslim poet. However Nazrul had this rare ability to offer a lot for almost all people. Despite faith background no one was neglected by him. Which was the case for most other intellectuals of his time. Hindu intellectuals did not mention Muslims in their poem, prose etc. Sometime portrayed them badly. Some Muslim intellectuals ONLY focused on Muslims and Islam. Nazrul on the other hand cared for everyone and his identity as a POET, WRITER and a patriot was most prominent. He did not sell his soul to publishers and kept giving to common people as long he was capable. I am glad Sheikh Mujibur Rahman rescued him from West Bengal and tried his level best to honor him. I feel it is OK to follow our religions of choice but it should not stop us from caring for each other or speaking truth when it helps our people. Shalom!


-----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:11 pm Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] 'আর-সব ভাগ হয়ে গেলেও নজরুলকে ভ াগ করা যায় নি'
 
Kazi Nazrul Islam was born in a Muslim family; that was his only tie with the religion. He was neither a Muslim nor a Hindu by heart; he was a religious libertarian.  His Shyama Sangit, Kirtan, Kawali, Gazzal, etc. bear hallmarks of religious libertarianism. He was a model secular person, and a sociopolitical revolutionary.
 
There is no doubt that - Indian cultural/literary society purged him for unexplained reasons. His model secular personality could have been so helpful in India in promoting secularism. I hope that, Bangladesh will not make the same mistake by promoting him as a Muslim-Poet, which he was not. It will be a blatant mischaracterization of such a revered secular personality. Also, it will be a gross betrayal with his departed soul, which can no longer revolt against such injustices, as he did in all his life.
 
Jiten Roy
 
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] 'আর-সব ভাগ হয়ে গেলেও নজরুলকে ভ াগ করা যায় নি'
 
The main problem fo




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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] Re: [BDPANA] Re: ‘তত্ত্বাবধায়ক সরকার লই চুদুর-বুদুর চইলত ন’।



A tragic manifestation of menopausal syndrome! Uncivil and unworthy of Bangladeshi parliament!
-SD

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: Mahbubur Rahman <apurba01@gmail.com>
To: "BDPANA@yahoogroups.com" <BDPANA@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: Shahadat Shahadat <shahadathussaini@hotmail.com>; Bangladesh Progressives <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>; bangladeshi googlesgroups <bangladeshiamericans@googlegroups.com>; khabor <khabor@yahoogroups.com>; alochona <alochona@yahoogroups.com>; chottala yahoogroups <chottala@yahoogroups.com>; mokto mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 7:32 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Re: [BDPANA] Re: 'তত্ত্বাবধায়ক সরকার লই চুদুর-বুদুর চইলত ন'।

 
Heni coleger tiya loi cudur bhutur choilto no
 


2013/6/9 Rezaul Karim <rezaulkarim617@gmail.com>
 


2013/6/9 Shahadat Hussaini <shahadathussaini@hotmail.com>

'তত্ত্বাবধায়ক সরকার লই চুদুর-বুদুর চইলত ন'

রেহানা আক্তার রানু- MP

সংসদ রিপোর্টার
সংসদে সম্পূরক বাজেটের ওপর আলোচনায় অংশ নিয়ে বিরোধী দলের সংসদ সদস্যরা বলেছেন, গত সাড়ে চার বছরে যে দুর্নীতি হয়েছে, তাতে শেখ হাসিনার সরকার দুর্নীতিতে নোবেল পুরস্কার পেতে পারে। সরকারের মন্ত্রীদের দুর্নীতি দেখে অর্থমন্ত্রী বলেছেন, আমি পালিয়ে যেতে চাই। কানাডিয়ান টেলিভিশনের রিপোর্ট অনুযায়ী পদ্মা সেতু দুর্নীতির ২ পার্সেন্ট ঘুষের টাকা প্রধানমন্ত্রীর পরিবারের কোন সদস্য নিয়েছেন জানতে চাই। জানতে চাই, একসময়ের সরকারি কর্মকর্তা স্বরাষ্ট্রমন্ত্রী মহীউদ্দীন খান আলমগীর কীভাবে ৪০০ কোটি টাকার ব্যাংকের মালিক হয়েছেন? বিরোধীদলীয় সংসদ সদস্যরা সরকারকে স্পষ্টভাবে জানিয়ে দেন যে, আমরা শেখ হাসিনাকে বিশ্বাস করি না। দেশের ১০ ভাগ মানুষেরও তার প্রতি বিশ্বাস নেই। কাজেই প্রধানমন্ত্রী শেখ হাসিনা বা দলীয় সরকারের অধীনে এদেশে কোনো নির্বাচন অনুষ্ঠিত হবে না। নির্দলীয় নিরপেক্ষ সরকারের দাবি জনগণের দাবিতে পরিণত হয়েছে। সরকারকে এ দাবি মানতে হবে এবং নিরপেক্ষ সরকারের বিল সরকারকেই সংসদে আনতে হবে। জবাবে সরকারি দলের সদস্যরা বলেছেন, আওয়ামী লীগ মাগুরা মার্কা নির্বাচনে বিশ্বাস করে না। এ সরকারের সময় অনুষ্ঠিত সব নির্বাচনই অবাধ, নিরপেক্ষ ও সুষ্ঠু হয়েছে। কাজেই আগামী নির্বাচন অন্তর্বর্তীকালীন সরকারের অধীনেই অনুষ্ঠিত হবে। ওই নির্বাচনে মহাজোট আবার ক্ষমতায় আসবে।
স্পিকার ড. শিরীন শারমীন চৌধুরীর সভাপতিত্বে গতকাল সম্পূরক বাজেটের ওপর আলোচনা করতে গিয়ে দু'দলের সদস্যরা এই পাল্টাপাল্টি বক্তব্য দেন।
শুরুতে আলোচনায় অংশ নেন সরকারি দলের সুরঞ্জিত সেনগুপ্ত, স্বরাষ্ট্রমন্ত্রী ড. মহীউদ্দিন খান আলমগীর, সৈয়দ আবুল হোসেন, গোলাম কিবরিয়া টিপু, মমতাজ বেগম, অধ্যক্ষ আলী আশরাফ, বিএনপির এএম মাহাবুব উদ্দিন খোকন, জেআইএম মোস্তফা আলী ও রেহানা আক্তার রানু।
রেহানা আক্তার রানু বলেন, আগামী সংসদ নির্বাচন যেন সুষ্ঠু হয়, সে নির্বাচনে যাতে সব দল অংশ নিতে পারে, কেউ যেন গায়ের জোরে একদলীয় নির্বাচন না করতে পারে—সেজন্য কার্যকর ভূমিকা প্রত্যাশা করি। প্রধানমন্ত্রীকে উদ্দেশ করে রানু বলেন, যখন নির্দলীয় তত্ত্বাবধায়ক প্রধান নিয়ে কথা বলছেন, তখন শোনা যাচ্ছে আপনার অধীনে নির্বাচন করার একটি ষড়যন্ত্র চলছে। আমাদের স্পষ্ট বক্তব্য হলো—নির্দলীয় তত্ত্বাবধায়কের অধীনেই নির্বাচন হতে হবে। আমার এলাকা ফেনীর ভাষায় বলতে চাই—'তত্ত্বাবধায়ক সরকার লই চুদুর-বুদুর চইলত ন'।
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Mahbubur Rahman




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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] A "Tiny Minority of Extremists"?



You missed the point. The question was whether you believe in polls? If you believe in one poll where Indians are portrayed as evil racists but not in others where Muslims are portrayed poorly? I just wanted give you exactly the same medicine that you would like give it to Indians, Jordanians and  Bangladeshis (yes, Bangladesh is totally red in your favorite map unless you are a color blind).

The polls that I have provided are done by the bests in their field. They are not conducted for Islamofobic sites! I can see  that you do not like the results. Do you see your problems?

"You have not supplied ONE survey about racism."

Check your favorite map again for Bangladesh! You are self incriminating without knowing about your unconscious acts 
-SD
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] A "Tiny Minority of Extremists"?

 
I went over many of your links but among (probably near 100) so many links, NOT one is about racism. We were talking about race relation and tolerance.

There is one about Iraqis attacking westeners. Generally I am against attacking civilians but westerners went to Iraqis based on false information and even no one supports the Iraqis, they will try to defend it anyway. Same way when Pak army attacked mostly unarmed civilians, people tried to defend their homes, families and country.

The website you took this information from is a well known Islamophobe site and some well known hate mongers are included in the long list you provided.

I was talking about a simple report about racism and I guess your passion for India is more than what I expected. I humbly submit that my perception of you was wrong.


Whether you would agree with these polls? Whether we, Bangladeshis are equally racists like Indians (from your favorite survey map)?

>>>>>>>>> You have not supplied ONE survey about racism. The survey I shared was done by scholars. Looks like you are good at dishing it out but very intolerant when anything disagree with your (Often faulty) perceptions.

This is how it looks bro. Not very cool....

Shalom!

-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Jun 8, 2013 3:23 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] A "Tiny Minority of Extremists"?

 
Whether you would agree with these polls? Whether we, Bangladeshis are equally racists like Indians (from your favorite survey map)?
-SD

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 8, 2013 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] A "Tiny Minority of Extremists"?

 
And your question was?


-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:00 pm
Subject: [mukto-mona] A "Tiny Minority of Extremists"?

 
OK, let me take the opposite stand and say all polls and surveys are the true reflections of total reality and truth. Would QR be able to take his own medicine and be happy? Here I got a link for polls amongst the Muslims! Yes. Muslims about Muslims. Judge yourself!
-SD

Muslim Opinion Polls
A "Tiny Minority of Extremists"?
"Strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be
unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is their destination."
 
Quran 9:73
Have you heard that Islam is a peaceful religion because most Muslims live peacefully and that only a "tiny minority of extremists" practice violence?  That's like saying that White supremacy must be perfectly fine since only a tiny minority of racists ever hurt anyone.  Neither does it explain why religious violence is largely endemic to Islam, despite the tremendous persecution of religious minorities in Muslim countries.
In truth, even a tiny minority of "1%" of Muslims worldwide translates to 15 million believers - which is hardly an insignificant number.  However, the "minority" of Muslims who approve of terrorists, their goals, or their means of achieving them is much greater than this.  In fact, it isn't even a true minority in some cases, depending on how goals and targets are defined.
The following polls convey what Muslims say are their attitudes toward terrorism, al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden, the 9/11 attacks, violence in defense of Islam, Sharia, honor killings, and matters concerning assimilation in Western society.  The results are all the more astonishing because most of the polls were conducted by organizations with an obvious interest in "discovering" agreeable statistics that downplay any cause for concern.
(These have been compiled over the years, so not all links remain active.  We will continue adding  to this).
 
Terrorism
People-Press: 31% of Turks support suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq.
http://people-press.org/report/206/a-year-after-iraq-war
YNet: One third of Palestinians (32%) supported the slaughter of a Jewish family, including the children:
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/04/06/32-of-palestinians-support-infanticide/
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4053251,00.html
World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)
A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans:
(Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%; Pakistan 33%)
About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda's attitude toward the U.S.
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf
Pew Research (2010): 55% of Jordanians have a positive view of Hezbollah
30% of Egyptians have a positive view of Hezbollah
45% of Nigerian Muslims have a positive view of Hezbollah (26% negative)
43% of Indonesians have a positive view of Hezbollah (30% negative)
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/
Pew Research (2010): 60% of Jordanians have a positive view of Hamas (34% negative).
49% of Egyptians have a positive view of Hamas (48% negative)
49% of Nigerian Muslims have a positive view of Hamas (25% negative)
39% of Indonesians have a positive view of Hamas (33% negative)
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/
Pew Research (2010): 15% of Indonesians believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.
34% of Nigerian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/
Populus Poll (2006): 12% of young Muslims in Britain (and 12% overall) believe that suicide attacks against civilians in Britain can be justified.  1 in 4 support suicide attacks against British troops.
http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2006_02_07_times.pdf
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist
Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60
Pew Research (2011): 8% of Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (81% never).
28% of Egyptian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (38% never).
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/muslim-americans-no-signs-of-growth-in-alienation-or-support-for-extremism/
Pew Research (2007): Muslim-Americans who identify more strongly with their religion are three times more likely to feel that suicide bombings are justified
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60
ICM: 5% of Muslims in Britain tell pollsters they would not report a planned Islamic terror attack to authorities.
27% do not support the deportation of Islamic extremists preaching violence and hate.
http://www.scotsman.com/?id=1956912005
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist.html
Federation of Student Islamic Societies: About 1 in 5 Muslim students in Britain (18%) would not report a fellow Muslim planning a terror attack.
http://www.fosis.org.uk/sac/FullReport.pdf
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist
Populus Poll (2006): 16% of British Muslims believe suicide attacks against Israelis are justified.
37% believe Jews in Britain are a "legitimate target".
http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2006_02_07_times.pdf
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist
Pew Research (2013): At least 1 in 4 Muslims do not reject violence against civilians (study did not distinguish between those who believe it is partially justified and never justified).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/Muslim/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
Pew Research (2013): 15% of Muslims in Turkey support suicide bombings (also 11% in Kosovo, 26% in Malaysia and 26% in Bangladesh).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/Muslim/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
See also: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_(Terrorism) for further statistics on Islamic terror.
 
al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden
Pew Research (2007): 5% of American Muslims have a favorable view of al-Qaeda (27% can't make up their minds).  Only 58% reject al-Qaeda outright.
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60
Pew Research (2011): 5% of American Muslims have a favorable view of al-Qaeda (14% can't make up their minds).
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/muslim-americans-no-signs-of-growth-in-alienation-or-support-for-extremism/
Pew Research (2011): 1 in 10 native-born Muslim-Americans have a favorable view of al-Qaeda.
http://people-press.org/2011/08/30/muslim-americans-no-signs-of-growth-in-alienation-or-support-for-extremism/
al-Jazeera (2006): 49.9% of Muslims polled support Osama bin Laden
http://terrorism.about.com/b/2006/09/11/al-jazeeras-readers-on-911-499-support-bin-laden.htm
Pew Research: 59% of Indonesians support Osama bin Laden in 2003
41% of Indonesians support Osama bin Laden in 2007
56% of Jordanians support Osama bin Laden in 2003
http://www.forbes.com/2010/02/15/iran-terrorism-al-qaida-islam-opinions-columnists-ilan-berman.html
Pew Global: 51% of Palestinians support Osama bin Laden
54% of Muslim Nigerians Support Osama bin Laden
http://frontpagemag.com/2010/02/10/blinded-by-hate/
http://pewglobal.org/files/pdf/268.pdf
World Public Opinion: Muslim majorities agree with the al-Qaeda goal of Islamic law.
Muslim majorities agree with al-Qaeda goal of keeping Western values out of Islamic countries;
(Egypt: 88%; Indonesia 76%; Pakistan 60%; Morocco 64%)
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf
World Public Opinion: Attitude toward Osama bin Laden:
Egypt: 44% positive, 17% negative, and 25% mixed feelings
Indonesia: 14% positive, 26% negative, 21% mixed feelings (39% did not answer)
Pakistan: 25% positive, 15% negative, 26% mixed feelings (34% did not answer)
Morocco: 27% positive, 21% negative, 26% mixed feelings
Jordanians, Palestinians, Turks and Azerbaijanis. Jordanians combined for: 27% positive, 20 percent negative, and 27 percent mixed feelings.  (Palestinians 56% positive, 20% negative, 22 percent mixed feelings).
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf
Pew Research (2010): 49% of Nigerian Muslims have favorable view of al-Qaeda (34% unfavorable)
23% of Indonesians have favorable view of al-Qaeda (56% unfavorable)
34% of Jordanians have favorable view of al-Qaeda
25% of Indonesians have "confidence" in Osama bin Laden (59% had confidence in 2003)
1 in 5 Egyptians have "confidence" in Osama bin Laden
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/
Pew Research (2011): 22% of Indonesians have a favorable view of al-Qaeda (21% unfavorable)
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/muslim-americans-no-signs-of-growth-in-alienation-or-support-for-extremism/
Gallup: 51% of Pakistanis grieve Osama bin Laden (only 11% happy over death)
44% of Pakistanis viewed Osama bin Laden as a martyr (only 28% as an oulaw)
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/05/majority_of_our_pakistani_alli.html
Populus Survey: 18% of British Muslims would be proud or indifferent if a family member joined al-Qaeda.
http://www.populuslimited.com/poll_summaries/2006_07_04_Times_ITV.htm
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist
 
9/11 Attacks
al-Arabiya: 36% of Arabs polled said the 9/11 attacks were morally justified; 38% disagreed; 26% Unsure
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/09/10/166274.html
Gallup: 38.6% of Muslims believe 9/11 attacks were justified (7% "fully", 6.5% "mostly", 23.1% "partially")
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2008/05/that-tiny-percentage-of-radical-muslims.html
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/templateC06.php?CID=1154
Pew Research (2011): Large majorities of Muslims believe in 9/11 conspiracy
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/2066/muslims-westerners-christians-jews-islamic-extremism-september-11
 
Violence in Defense of Islam
40% of Indonesians approve of violence in defense of Islam.
http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailweekly.asp?fileid=20060728.@03
Pew Global: 68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
13% of Indonesian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
12% of Jordanian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
7% of Muslim Israelis say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
http://cnsnews.com/node/53865 (Pew Global Attitudes Project September, 2009)
Policy Exchange: One third of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf
NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY
NOP Research: Hardcore Islamists comprise 9% of Britain's Muslim population;
Another 29% would "aggressively defend" Islam;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY
Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/
Terrorism Research Institute Study: 51% of mosques in the U.S. have texts on site rated as severely advocating violence; 30% have texts rated as moderately advocating violence; and 19% have no violent texts at all.
http://www.terrorismanalysts.com/pt/index.php/pot/article/view/sharia-adherence-mosque-survey/html
Pew Research (2013): 76% of South Asian Muslims and 56% of Egyptians advocate killing anyone who leaves the Islamic religion.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/Muslim/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
Pew Research (2013): 19% of Muslim Americans believe suicide bombings in defense of Islam are at least partially justified (global average is 28% in countries surveyed).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/Muslim/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
 
Sharia (Islamic Law)
83% of Pakistanis support stoning adulterers
78% of Pakistanis support killing apostates
http://www.realcourage.org/2009/08/pakistan-78-percent-call-for-apostate-deaths/
GfK NOP: 28% of British Muslims want Britain to be an Islamic state
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf
NOP Research: 68% of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY
World Public Opinion: 81% of Egyptians want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
76% of Pakistanis want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
49% (plurality) of Indonesians want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
76% of Moroccans want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf
World Public Opinion: 64% of Egyptians said it was "very important for the government" to "apply traditional punishments for crimes such as stoning adulterers."
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf
Pew Research (2010): 77% of Egyptian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
58% of Jordanian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
36% of Indonesian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
82% of Pakistanis favor floggings and amputation
65% of Nigerian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/
Pew Research (2010): 82% of Egyptian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
70% of Jordanian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
42% of Indonesian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
82% of Pakistanis favor stoning adulterers
56% of Nigerian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/
Pew Research (2013): 72% of Indonesians want Sharia to be law of the land
http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/seventy-two-percent-of-indonesians-favor-shariah-law-pew-forum/
Pew Research (2013): 81% of South Asian Muslims and 57% of Egyptians suport amputating limbs for theft.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/Muslim/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
 
Honor Killings
Civitas: 1 in 3 Muslims in the UK strongly agree that a wife should be forced to obey her husband's bidding
http://www.imaginate.uk.com/MCC01_SURVEY/Site%20Download.pdf
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf
BBC Poll: 1 in 10 British Muslims support killing a family member over "dishonor".
http://www.expressandstar.com/blogs/peter-rhodes/2011/12/28/honour-killing-%E2%80%93-a-stain-on-our-nation/
Middle East Quarterly: 91 percent of honor killings are committed by Muslims worldwide.
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/43207
95% of honor killings in the West are perpetrated by Muslim fathers and brothers or their proxies.
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/09/21/barbara-kay-continue-calling-honour-killings-by-its-rightful-name/
A survey of Muslim women in Paris suburbs found that three-quarters of them wear their masks out of fear - including fear of violence.
http://www.nugget.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3402230
Pew Research (2013): Large majorities of Muslims favor Sharia.  Among those who do, stoning women for adultery is favored by 89% in Pakistanis, 85% in Afghanistan, 81% in Egypt, 67% in Jordan, ~50% in 'moderate' Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand, 58% in Iraq, 44% in Tunisia, 29% in Turkey, and 26% in Russia.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/Muslim/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
Pew Research (2013): Honor killing the woman for sex outside of marriage is favored over honor killing the man in almost every Islamic country.  Over half of Muslims surveyed believed that honor killings over sex were at least partially justified.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/Muslim/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
 
Assimilation
2011: 16% of UK prisoners in 2010 are Muslim (Muslims comprise about 3% of the total population)
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5j9EvY-ZaN9jm1TF2wT-EK28RTRDQ?docId=N0256451319500798601A
Pakistani Muslims in the UK are three times more likely to be unemployed than Hindus. Indian Muslims are twice as likely to be unemployed as Indian Hindus.
http://frontpagemag.com/2012/daniel-greenfield/islams-universal-economic-failure/2/
Policy Exchange: 1 in 4 Muslims in the UK have never heard of the Holocaust;
Only 34% of British Muslims believe the Holocaust ever happened.
http://www.imaginate.uk.com/MCC01_SURVEY/Site%20Download.pdf
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf
Policy Exchange: 51% of British Muslims believe a woman cannot marry a non-Muslim
Only 51% believe a Muslim woman may marry without a guardian's consent
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf
Policy Exchange: Up to 52% of British Muslims believe a Muslim man is entitled to up to four wives
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf
Policy Exchange: 61% of British Muslims want homosexuality punished
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf
NOP Research: 62% of British Muslims do not believe in the protection of free speech;
Only 3% adopt a "consistently pro-freedom of speech line"
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY
Pew Global (2006): Only 7% of British Muslims think of themselves as British first (81% say 'Muslim' rather than 'Briton')
http://pewglobal.org/reports/pdf/254.pdf
Policy Exchange (2006): 31% Muslims in Britain identify more with Muslims in other countries than with non-Muslim Brits.
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images/libimages/246.pdf
Die Welt (2012): 46% of Muslims in Germany hope there will eventually be more Muslims than Christians in Germany.
http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article108659406/Tuerkische-Migranten-hoffen-auf-muslimische-Mehrheit.html
Ipsos MORI: Muslims are 3 times as likely as Christians to believe that their religion is the only way.
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/religion.still.matters.global.survey.finds/28257.htm
Pew Research (2011): Muslim-Americans four times more likely to say that women should not work outside the home.
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/section-5-political-opinions-and-social-values/
Pew Research (2007): 26% of Muslim-Americans want to be distinct (43% support assimilation)
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60
Pew Research (2011): 20% of Muslim-Americans want to be distinct (56% support assimilation)
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/muslim-americans-no-signs-of-growth-in-alienation-or-support-for-extremism/
Pew Research (2011): 49% of Muslim-Americans say they are "Muslim first" (26% American first)
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/muslim-americans-no-signs-of-growth-in-alienation-or-support-for-extremism/
Pew Research (2011): 21% of Muslim-Americans say there is a fair to great amount of support for Islamic extremism in their community.
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/section-6-terrorism-concerns-about-extremism-foreign-policy/
Wenzel Strategies (2012): 58% of Muslim-Americans believe criticism of Islam or Muhammad is not protected free speech under the First Amendment.
45% believe mockers of Islam should face criminal charges (38% said they should not).
12% of Muslim-Americans believe blaspheming Islam should be punishable by death.
43% of Muslim-Americans believe people of other faiths have no right to evangelize Muslims.
32% of Muslims in America believe that Sharia should be the supreme law of the land.
http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2012/10/31/sixty-percent-of-us-muslims-reject-freedom-of-expression/
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2012/10/poll-nearly-half-of-us-muslims-believe.html
Pew Research (2013): "At least half' of Muslims surveyed believed polygamy is morally acceptable.
"Muslims in most countries surveyed say that a wife should always obey her husband." (including 93% in Indonesia and 65% in Turkey).
Only 32% of Muslims in Indonesia say a woman should have the right to divorce her husband (22% in Egypt, 26% in Pakistan and 60% in Russia).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/Muslim/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
 
©2002-2014 Site developed by TheRe

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2013 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: সর্বশক্তিমান আল্লাহ তায়ালায় বিশ্বাসবিহীন রাষ্ট্র গড়াই কি জাতীয় কবির স্বপ্ন ছিল?/ "Bangladesh is the second most racist country in the world"

 

Member @ss, I am not an Indian and you are not a Pakistani as far as I can guess from your arguments. So, please stop that BS.

>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said you are an India. I simply said, I did not remember if you were or NOT. Now the way you are reacting, I am certain you are from Bangladesh. Most Indians have better manners than you.



That survey is bogus with plenty of errors. You are finally figuring out that

>>>>>>>> Sorry that you are offended for India.

The report I shared ( It is not my report, I only shared it) was AFTER correction was made. A scholar audited it and corrected the mistake.

You did not even check that before you posted the link.

>>>>>>>>> It is in the first report that I shared.

The map shows we are equally cruel racists like our damn Indian brothers and sisters (see ref in The Daily Star).

>>>>>>>> There are some level of racism in all over the world. India happened to be the Champion of all racists. That is all. One can reason behind it is that, Hinduism has structural racism in it. Other religions do not support racism but sometime some followers are influenced by local culture. Hinduism sees the world between Hindus and non-Hindus. Even among Hindus you have lower caste Hindus who are persecuted in the worst possible way by people from higher castes.

History tells us Hindus have been intolerant with Buddhists before. That is why despite being the birth place of Buddhism, you will not see many Buddhists in India compare to other eastern countries (Where it was introduced by Buddhist monks from India).

A wrong data is wrong and you need to start questioning it because it does not make sense

>>>>>>>>> It will never make sense as long you start reacting without reading the whole article. The very first article, I shared has the explanation about data and it was audited by a scholar before it was published. The version you seen was double checked BEFORE it was published.

There are plenty of intelligent Indians in this forum who can take you on with no problem.

>>>>>>>>> One of the bright spots of India is that it still has good number of true scholars. They are not afraid to embrace the truth and I have NO intention to fight with anyone about a report. Some time truth is hard to accept but only brave among us can accept the truth and admit their mistakes. Thankfully there are still a good number of Indians left who are carrying this tradition. Maybe they are the one who are keeping India moving forward despite culture of racism.

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jun 5, 2013 8:57 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: সর্বশক্তিমান আল্লাহ তায়ালায় বিশ্বাসবিহীন রাষ্ট্র গড়াই কি জাতীয় কবির স্বপ্ন ছিল?/ "Bangladesh is the second most racist country in the world"

 
Member @ss, I am not an Indian and you are not a Pakistani as far as I can guess from your arguments. So, please stop that BS.

That survey is bogus with plenty of errors. You are finally figuring out that. Good for you! You did not even check that before you posted the link. We do not even know how this was compiled (methodology)? If that is disclosed, the whole thing might not even last two minutes' public scrutiny.
There is nothing to gloat about that Indians are bad, we are better and Americans are worse. The map shows we are equally cruel racists like our damn Indian brothers and sisters (see ref in The Daily Star).
A wrong data is wrong and you need to start questioning it because it does not make sense. Now, if you have more data against Indians, bring it on for discussion. There are plenty of intelligent Indians in this forum who can take you on with no problem.
-SD  

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2013 6:14 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: সর্বশক্তিমান আল্লাহ তায়ালায় বিশ্বাসবিহীন রাষ্ট্র গড়াই কি জাতীয় কবির স্বপ্ন ছিল?/ "Bangladesh is the second most racist country in the world"

 

He does not even have the rigor to verify the truthfulness of those printed materials. The man does not even know how surveys are made. He thinks all surveys are correct unless Muslims are portrayed poorly.

-SD

The same report has been published in The Bangladesh  Daily Star and many of our Bangladeshi brothers and sisters are questioning the validity of that survey. Can anybody wake up our troll?


>>>>>>>>> Member Saha, if you read the article, you will discover that, mistake (Typo error) was mentioned in the report and it was corrected. A scholar did go over the numbers and corrected that mistake.

Therefore, such audit gives the report MORE authenticity, if you think about it. That audit by a third person corrected one typo. Where a data number was put in the wrong box.

We have other data about India and it supports those information.

Maybe you are taking it personally ( I do not know if you are an Indian or not). This is not personal but only sharing a report. Jordan was shown as racist as India, so I do not see any religious bias here.


Shalom!



-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 10:27 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: সর্বশক্তিমান আল্লাহ তায়ালায় বিশ্বাসবিহীন রাষ্ট্র গড়াই কি জাতীয় কবির স্বপ্ন ছিল?/ "Bangladesh is the second most racist country in the world"

 
I hate to continue any argument with that imbecile named QR.  Doesn't he know that in his holiest land Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, a non-Muslim is not allowed to  do religious activity even within the four walls of his residence?  Across history Muslims have defiled millions of prayer houses made for other religions.  He cites the destruction of one Babri Mosque, but conveniently forgets tens of thousands of temples destroyed afterwards.  Such an idiot should not participate in any argument.


2013/6/5 Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
 

The problem with Mr. Rahman is that whatever he sees in the print, they become true facts for him. He does not even have the rigor to verify the truthfulness of those printed materials. The man does not even know how surveys are made. He thinks all surveys are correct unless Muslims are portrayed poorly.

-SD

The same report has been published in The Bangladesh  Daily Star and many of our Bangladeshi brothers and sisters are questioning the validity of that survey. Can anybody wake up our troll?

Friday, May 31, 2013

Perceptions

Painting the Country Red

Adnan R Amin

"Bangladesh is the second most racist country in the world", screamed the map of global racism. So to the list of 'disaster-prone', 'poor', 'corrupt' and 'fundamentalist' – the world will now add 'racist' when describing Bangladesh. The map was colour-coded and Bangladesh appeared in deep Crimson. Plus, it came with the powerful masthead of the Washington Post – stamped with majestic-blue moral and intellectual superiority of the proverbial West.
Max Fisher, Foreign Affairs Blogger and Worldviews page host at the Washington Post (WaPo) had picked up the scent from two Swedish economists examining if economic freedom made people more or less racist. After some manipulation and extrapolation – Fisher produced the compelling write-up and what he called the 'fascinating' map on 15 May, 2013. Fisher's phrasing and caveats made it difficult to decipher or question results beyond the blue and red. Basically: blue was good (not racist) – red, bad (racist).

http://www.thedailystar.net/beta2/news/painting-the-country-red/
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!category-topic/BangladeshiAmericans/uLDoK-lBz3Q

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: QR <qrahman@aim.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: সর্বশক্তিমান আল্লাহ তায়ালায় বিশ্বাসবিহীন রাষ্ট্র গড়াই কি জাতীয় কবির স্বপ্ন ছিল?

 
He wants to portray that Muslims are blatantly discriminated in India


>>>>>>>> Member Roy, it is has been shown in a report (NOT my report) that, India is one of the most racist place on earth. I know you have high opinion of India (And in some areas they deserve it) but when it comes to race relations and tolerance, they are not the best example.

I am NOT trying to portray anything, it is there!!

I am simply sharing it. The reports are done by specialists in these fields. One member Dev Shaha ( I think) asked for data. It was not my report. If there are any doubts, please consult the scholar who wrote that report.

yet hardly any one from India wants to leave that hell, called India, for the neighboring Muslim majority heavens. In fact, Muslims from the neighboring Muslim majority heavens (Bangladesh and Pakistan) are entering illegally into the hell, called India, everyday.


>>>>>>>>>> There are a lot of people who want to leave India and leaving India. However it is a big country and it does not show up so easily. The data from west Bengal have been acknowledged by it's government. If you have 26% population and get around 2% of the jobs, how the hell that is fair?

You can mock and dance around it as much as you want. You cannot and should not defend such abusive system.

Bangladesh we are still evolving into democratic system. Without empowering local government and bold leadership from national level leaders, it will be difficult to make progress. Having said that, I would say majority of our population do not support any kind of religious discrimination. Over last twenty years majority of our people kept voting for strong leadership but have been disappointed most of the time.

Every time there was any injustice majority population protested vigorously.

Sadly the "Unity council" for minority rights have reduced themselves to supporter of one political party. They keep quiet when Rana plaza or Biswajit type incident take place. ONLY speak up when their voice can favor their political party.

Even recently the lawlessness in Bangladesh have been promoted as some kind of " Islamist" attack on Hindus. While we know it has been unstable politics and careless police who should be blamed for it. WHY would supporters of BNP, Jammat and BAL parties are fighting each other around election time? Surely it is not motivated by religion. Any fool can see it is a political issue but my brothers do not hesitate to malign a religion for their own little political gain. In the process they sacrifice a lot of helpless minority Bangladeshis. This is the sad truth.

Indian Muslims do face many problems but they are patriotic. I have seen many Muslims argue on India's behalf while their fellow Muslims are being persecuted in Kashmir, Gujurat, Aasam and other places. I admire their LOVE for India.

Again do understand despite the race problem, India made progress in economy and it has mature democratic system. Which often works as a safeguard for all Indians.

So it is OK to point out where India fails to deliver but that should not stop us from giving their credit where it is due.


Shalom!






-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jun 3, 2013 9:34 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: সর্বশক্তিমান আল্লাহ তায়ালায় বিশ্বাসবিহীন রাষ্ট্র গড়াই কি জাতীয় কবির স্বপ্ন ছিল?

 
As I said before, views of Mr. QR are inconsistent, without sound logic. He wants to portray that Muslims are blatantly discriminated in India, yet hardly any one from India wants to leave that hell, called India, for the neighboring Muslim majority heavens. In fact, Muslims from the neighboring Muslim majority heavens (Bangladesh and Pakistan) are entering illegally into the hell, called India, everyday.  Muslim population in India is increasing at an alarming rate, while religious minorities in the neighboring Muslim majority heavens, called Bangladesh and Pakistan, are dwindling at an alarming rate. In my view, most of Mr. QR's arguments are silly, but - I find him as an accommodative personality, but confused due to his religious dogma.
 
Jiten Roy    


From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: সর্বশক্তিমান আল্লাহ তায়ালায় বিশ্বাসবিহীন রাষ্ট্র গড়াই কি জাতীয় কবির স্বপ্ন ছিল?

 
This low life idiot QR  is making up stories.  He is, however, not good at it. Syed Mujtaba Ali left East Pakistan after a warrant of arrest was issued against him.  He served a few high Govt. Jobs in Delhi he did not like, came back to Calcutta and devoted to literary activities.  He used to be on the pay roll of the Ananda Bazar Group.  He was also a great cuisine, and served as consultant of international Hotels.  He himself never complained of his life in India.

If the Hindus were so bad to Muslims, as QR likes to portray, Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan would not have left Lahore for Calcutta.  Salim Ali and other members of aristocratic Muslim clans would have left for Pakistan.  Even the Nawab of Bhopal, whose eldest son was murdered in the riots before independence opted to remain in India. 

When Nawaz Sharif was overthrown, his son approached Prime Minister Bajpayee to save the life of his father.  Rich and poor, there are about two hundred million Muslims in India.  Not all of them are happy, but they are happier than their Muslim friends in erstwhile Pakistan. Likes of Mr. Rafiq Zakaria, father of Fareed Zakaria, even advocated India to conquer Pakistan militarily, but Nehru would have no carbuncle on his butts.

Nothing better than QR mind set is expected from the illegitimate children of the defunct Two Nation Theory.


2013/6/3 QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
 
Kazi Nazrul came to Bangladesh after having been supported by the Indian Government for over two and half decades.

>>>>>>>> Yeah, he was born in India. Indian government did not honor him properly thus the hellish condition. At the end of the day, he was a Muslim in India!!

Many other Muslims who devoted their lives to promote Bengali culture received similar "Neglet" from Hindus. Syed Mujtoba Ali is another person. Dr. Ali was educated in Shantiniketon and was a student of Rabindranath. He protested Pakistani regime and left his family to east Pakistan and went to India. Received awful treatment from Hindus and came back his senses (And returned to Bangladesh).

Bangladesh government did not best for Nazrul. Sheikh Mujibor Rahman himself had Dr. Nurul Islam treating the poet but it was too late. I can also tell all of you that, it was during Ershad when family of Nazrul Islam received a house from our government. It is NOT in Dhanmondi but in Banani. I know the details of it because the person who motivated Ershad is related to me. Nazrul's family still live in that house.

However Sri kamal Das Gupta was asked to give Examination by some BAL flavored idiot at Radio Bangladesh. Which is disgusting. Kamal Das Gupta is probably one of the most gifted musicians Bengal ever produced. It is a shame our politicized bureaucratic idiots dare to insult him at his old age.

Reminds me of the story when Ustad Faiyaz Khan was asked to sit for an exam for Radio India by similar low life idiot "Amla".

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Jun 1, 2013 10:37 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: সর্বশক্তিমান আল্লাহ তায়ালায় বিশ্বাসবিহীন রাষ্ট্র গড়াই কি জাতীয় কবির স্বপ্ন ছিল?

 
Syed Ali and the forty cohorts who led the anti-Tagore campaign were called "Alibaba and forty thieves" by Abdul Gani Hazari, the managing Editor of  the Pakistan Observer Group.  The Syed got a third class in M. A.(English) before Pakistan, went to Calcutta looking for a job and became a tutor of a daughter of a Hindu Barrister.  Soon he developed infatuation on her and got dismissed.  Thus he developed a life long communal approach.  In Radio Pakistan, he served as a translator.  He translated the autobiography of his master President Ayub entitled, "Friends not Masters" and was rewarded with the Chairmanship of Bengali Dept. in Karachi University.  Then he came to Chittagong to serve in the same post. However, he ran for life after Paki Army crack down along with A. R. Mullick and others to the other side of the border. He had no crystal ball to predict the winner, and his heart was indeed with Pakistan.  While in Chittagong, he had the reputation of being a regular defaulter in paying the rent while living in private houses.  As a teacher, he had considerable reputation though not as a man of integrity.

Kazi Nazrul came to Bangladesh after having been supported by the Indian Government for over two and half decades.  In the British period, considerable support was provided by his non-Muslim fans.  While here, a round white cap was put on his head making him look like an old Mullah.  TV broadcasts were made with Feroza Begum singing religious Nazrul Geeti she learned from her Hindu teacher cum husband, Mr. Kamal Dasgupta.  She also spent many of her years in India during the Paki days and returned to Independent Bangladesh. However, Bangladesh did not have to provide support to Nazrul for long.  He did not live long in this land, and was hurriedly buried after his death.  His children were informed afterwards.


2013/5/31 Mahbub Kamal <mahbubk2002@yahoo.com>
 
Mr. Rahman, you are correct in both cases.
 
Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman brought the poet to Bangladesh and alloted a house to his family in Road # 26 (probably), Dhanmondi. However I never heard that he was living in hellish condition in West Bengal.
 
Syed Ali Ahsan was associated with Swadhin Bangla Betar Kendro, also Bangabandhu made him the Vice Chancellor of Jahangirnagar University. It is also true that he was the presiding editor of the 're-packaging' of Ayub Khan's 'Friends not Masters' and he made lot of derogatory remarks about Tagore in the 50s. BTW, I noticed that he used  the exact same simili/metaphor in 'Amar Purbo Bangla' that was used by Michael Madhusudan Dutta in 'Kopotakkho nod' - I am not sure if it amounts to plagiarism, but he was well-versed on Michael's work - he wrote books on him.
 
As a cunning person, he understood that Pakistan is going to lose in 1971, so he sided with the winning side (there were other people like him - 'by chance patriots'). He was always a 'cholti hawar ponthi', however at later age he miscalculated and became the 'Raj-kobi' during Ershad's regime. (I knew one of his nephews very well, he told me that his 'fufa' was frustrated and thought there is no way to remove Ershad).
 
Anyway I admire Syed Ali Ahsan as a poet.

From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 8:10:17 AM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: সর্বশক্তিমান আল্লাহ তায়ালায় বিশ্বাসবিহীন রাষ্ট্র গড়াই কি জাতীয় কবির স্বপ্ন ছিল?
 
CORRECT me if I am wrong. I thought it was Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman who brought Nazrul Islam to Bangladesh. He was living in hellish condition in west Bengal and SMR decided to honor him properly. Also did Syed Ali Ahsan work at the Shadhin Bangla Betar kendro?

I read about these a long time ago, so if I am wrong, feel free to correct me.

During prime period a lot of people said a lot of things to Nazrul Islam. Not all of them were positive. The fact is Nazrul was not known for his disciplined life. There are times when he broke Islamic pracrtices and there are times when he wrote great things about Islam.

He was a human being and full of flaws. His label as a "Poet" was the brightest labels of all. His label as Muslim was little less prominent.

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thu, May 30, 2013 6:52 amSubject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: সর্বশক্তিমান আল্লাহ তায়ালায় বিশ্বাসবিহীন রাষ্ট্র গড়াই কি জাতীয় কবির স্বপ্ন ছিল?
 
Jatio kabi was born in West Bengal, called a murtad in his prime period by the likes of those who gave him a communal color and made him the national poet.  Mr. Syed Ali Ahsan and Hussaini belong to the same group, though their is probably a difference in the level of education.
2013/5/30 Shahadat Hussaini <shahadathussaini@hotmail.com>
 
Looks like my posting taking some strangeful rest on the way to be posted. Nakib any difficulties in the smooth system? 
From: shahadathussaini@hotmail.comTo: bangladeshiamericans@googlegroups.com; khabor@yahoogroups.com; alochona@yahoogroups.com; chottala@yahoogroups.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.comSubject: সর্বশক্তিমান আল্লাহ তায়ালায় বিশ্বাসবিহীন রাষ্ট্র গড়াই কি জাতীয় কবির স্বপ্ন ছিল?Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 15:23:36 -0400
সর্বশক্তিমান আল্লাহ তায়ালায় বিশ্বাসবিহীন রাষ্ট্র গড়াই কি জাতীয় কবির স্বপ্ন ছিল?
মোহাম্মদ আবদুল গফুর : আমাদের দেশের এক শ্রেণীর রাজনীতিবিদ ও বুদ্ধিজীবী সাম্প্রদায়িকতা, ধর্মনিরপেক্ষতা এবং ধর্ম, বিশেষ করে ইসলাম সম্পর্কে কি ধারণা পোষণ করেন তা যেমন স্পষ্ট নয়, তেমনি তাদের কথা ও বাস্তব আচরণে এত বেশি স্ববিরোধিতা লক্ষ্য করা যায় যে, তাদের সম্বন্ধে জনমনে বিভ্রান্তি সৃষ্টি না হয়ে পারে না। গত ২৫ মে  সারা দেশে জাতীয় কবি কাজী নজরুল ইসলামের ১১৪তম জন্মবার্ষিকী উদযাপিত হয়ে গেল। জাতীয় কবির জন্মবাষির্কী উপলক্ষে ওসমানী স্মৃতি মিলনায়তনে রাষ্ট্রীয় উদ্যোগে আয়োজিত অনুষ্ঠানে প্রধানমন্ত্রী কবির স্বপ্ন পূরণে অসাম্প্রদায়িক বাংলাদেশ গড়ে তোলার আহ্বান জানালেন। তিনি তার ভাষণে অসাম্প্রদায়িক, আধুনিক, গণতান্ত্রিক এবং সবার সমঅধিকার নিশ্চিত করার মাধ্যমে শোষণ-বঞ্চনাহীন বাংলাদেশ গড়ে তুলতে সবার প্রতি আহ্বান জানান। প্রথমেই প্রশ্ন জাগে তিনি যে অসাম্প্রদায়িক বাংলাদেশ গড়ে তোলার আহ্বান জানালেন, তবে কি তাঁর মতে বাংলাদেশ এখন একটা 'সাম্প্রদায়িক' দেশে পরিণত রয়েছে, তাই তাকে অসাম্প্রদায়িক বাংলাদেশরূপে গড়ে তোলা জরুরি হয়ে পড়েছে? এবং সেই লক্ষ্যই কি তিনি বাংলাদেশের সংবিধান হতে সর্ব শক্তিমান আল্লাহর প্রতি গভীর আস্থা ও বিশ্বাস' বাদ দিয়েছেন?তিনি যেহেতু জাতীয় কবি কাজী নজরুল ইসলামের জন্মবার্ষিকী উপলক্ষে আয়োজিত অনুষ্ঠানে কবির স্বপ্ন পূরণে অসাম্প্রদায়িক বাংলাদেশ গড়ে তুলতে সবার প্রতি একযোগে কাজে এগিয়ে যেতে আহ্বান জানিয়েছেন, তাই এ ক্ষেত্রে কবির স্বপ্ন কি ছিল সে প্রসঙ্গও চলে আসে, স্বাভাবিকভাবেই। তবে সে প্রসঙ্গে যাওয়ার আগে এ সত্য জানিয়ে দেয়া প্রয়োজন যে, বাংলাদেশ অতীতেও কখনও সাম্প্রদায়িক দেশ ছিল না, এখনও নেই। বাংলাদেশ অতীতেও ছিল উপমহাদেশে সাম্প্রদায়িক সম্প্রতির দৃষ্টান্তস্থল, ভবিষ্যতেও তা তেমনি থাকবে। কারণ বাংলাদেশের জনগণ শান্তি ও সাম্যভ্রাতৃত্বের আদর্শ ইসলামে গভীরভাবে বিশ্বাসী। বাংলাদেশের জনগণ ইসলামের শান্তি ও সাম্যভ্রাতৃত্বের আদর্শ ইসলামে বিশ্বাসী বলেই এদেশে কখনো সাম্প্রদায়িক বৈষম্য স্থান পায় না।  এি সেদিন প্রতিবেশী তথাকথিত সেক্যুলার রাষ্ট্র ভারতের গুজরাটে যখন নৃশংস মুসলিম গণহত্যা চলে তখনও মুসলিমপ্রধান বাংলাদেশে সম্পূর্ণ সাম্প্রদায়িক সম্প্রীতি বিরাজ করে। সংবাদপত্র পাঠকদের স্মরণ থাকার কথা, গুজরাটে নির্মম মুসলিম গণহত্যা চলাকালে মুসলিমপ্রধান বাংলাদেশে তার প্রতিক্রিয়ায় হিন্দুবিরোধী সহিংসতার আশঙ্কা করে ভারতের ত্রিপুরা রাজ্য থেকে একটি প্রতিনিধি দল সরেজমিনে দেখতে বাংলাদেশে আসেন এবং এদেশে বিরাজমান সাম্প্রদায়িক সম্প্রীতি দেখে অবাক হয়ে যান। সুতরাং সাম্প্রদায়িক সম্প্রতির আদর্শ বাংলাদেশের জনগণের প্রতি সাম্প্রদায়িক বাংলাদেশ গড়ার আহ্বান যে একেবারেই অবান্তর, তা বলাই বাহুল্য। তবে ইসলামী আদর্শ এবং সর্বশক্তিমান আল্লাহ তায়ালায় বিশ্বাসকে যদি কেউ সাম্প্রদায়িকতার নিদর্শন বলে ধারণা করে থাকেন, তবে মাননীয় প্রধানমন্ত্রীকে নিরাশ করে বলতেই হয় তথাকথিত অসাম্প্রদায়িকতার নামে এদেশের জনগণ কখনোই ইসলামী আদর্শ এবং সর্বশক্তিমান আল্লাহ তায়ালায় বিশ্বাস এক মুহূর্তের জন্যও ত্যাগ করতে রাজি নয়। কারণ বাংলাদেশের জনগণ গভীরভাবে ইসলামী আদর্শ ও সর্বশক্তিমান আল্লাহ তায়ালায় তাদের গভীর বিশ্বাস আছে বলেই তারা বিশ্বাস করে, ধর্ম-বর্ণ-গোত্র নির্বিশেষে সব মানুষেরই ¯্রষ্টা ও পালনকর্তা আল্লাহ।এবার আশা যাক জাতীয় কবি নজরুল ইসলামের নিজের বিশ্বাস তাঁর স্বপ্ন ও আশা-আকাক্সক্ষা সম্পর্কে। আমরা তাকে স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশের জাতীয় কবি বলে জানি। কিন্তু স্বাধীন রাষ্ট্র হিসেবে বাংলাদেশের অভ্যুদয়ের বহু বহু বছর আগে সেই ১৯২৯ সালেই একবার কলকাতার এলবার্ট হলে তাকে সেখানের আচার্য প্রফুল্ল চন্দ্র সেন, সুভাষচন্দ্র বসু, এম ওয়াজেদ আলী প্রমুখ তদানীন্তন হিন্দু-মুসলিম নেতৃস্থানীয় মনীষীবৃন্দের মিলিত উদ্যোগে জাতীয় সংবর্ধনা দিয়ে তাকে জাতীয় কবি আখ্যায় ভূষিত করা হয়। যে বছর কলকাতায় তাঁকে এই জাতীয় সংবর্ধনা দেয়া হয় সেই ১৯২৯ সালেই তিনি ছুটে গিয়েছিলেন চট্টগ্রামের মুসলিম এডুকেশন সোসাইটির প্রতিষ্ঠা অনুষ্ঠানে যোগ দিতে। সে অনুষ্ঠানে ভাষণ দান প্রসঙ্গে নজরুল তাঁর জীবনের বহুদিনের একটি স্বপ্নের কথা প্রকাশ করেন এভাবে: আপনাদের শিক্ষা  সমিতিতে এসেছি আমি আর একটি উদ্দেশ্য নিয়ে সে হচ্ছে আপনাদের সমিতির মারফৎ বাঙলার সমগ্র মুসলিম সমাজের বিশেষ করে ধনী ও শিক্ষিত সম্প্রদায়ের কাছে আমি যে মহান স্বপ্ন দিবা-রাত্রি ধরে দেখেছি তাই বলে যাওয়া...'আমি বলি রবীন্দ্রনাথের মতো আমাদেরও কালচারের সভ্যতার জ্ঞানের সেন্টার বা কেন্দ্রভূমির ভিত্তি স্থাপনের মহৎ ভার আপনারা গ্রহণ করুন, আমাদের মতো শত শত তরুণ খাদেম তাদের সকল শক্তি আশা-আকাক্সক্ষা, জীবন অঞ্জলির  মতো করে আপনাদের সে উদ্যোগের পায়ে অর্ঘ্য দেবে।'প্রশ্ন আসে নজরুলের এ স্বপ্ন কাদের জাগিয়ে তোলার স্বপ্ন?কবি যখন গেয়ে ওঠেন-দিকে দিকে পুন জ্বলিয়া উঠেছে দীন-ই ইসলামী লাল মশাল ওরে বে-খবর তুইও ওঠ জেগে তুইও তোর প্রাণ প্রদীপ জ্বাল॥তখন কি কারও বুঝতে বাকি থাকে যে, বিশ্বের দিকে দিকে আবার ইসলামের মশাল জ্বলে উঠুক, এটাই কবির অন্তরের কামনা। যখন কবি বলেন : বাজিছে দামামা বাঁধরে আমামাশির উঁচু করি মুসলমান। দাওয়াত এসেছে নয়া জামানার ভাঙা কিল্লায় ওড়ে নিশান॥ মুখেতে কলমা হাতে তলোয়ারেবুকে ইসলামী জোশ দুর্বারহৃদয়ে লইয়া এশক্ আল্লার। চল আগে চল বাজে বিষান। ভয় নাই তোর গলায় তাবিজবাঁধা যে রে তোর পাক কোরান॥ তখন বুঝতে বাকি থাকে না কবি কাদের অতীত গৌরবগাথা তুলে তাদের জাগিয়ে তুলতে কলমযুদ্ধে ব্রতী হয়েছেন। আজ দুনিয়ার মুসলমানরা প্রিয় নবীর দেখানো পথ  থেকে বিচ্যুত হওয়ায়ই যে তাদের জীবনে জিল্লতি নেমে এসেছে,  এ সম্বন্ধে কবি সজাগ। তাই কবি বলেন: তোমার বাণীরে করিনি গ্রহণ ক্ষমা করো হজরত। ভুলিয়া গিয়াছি আদর্শ তোমার দেখানো পথ।                          ক্ষমা করো হজরত॥ বিলাস বিভব দলিয়াছ পায়ে ধূলি-সম তুমি প্রভু। আমরা হইব বাদশাহ-নওয়াব তুমি চাহ নাই কভু। এই ধরণীর ধন সম্ভার সকলের এতে সম-অধিকারতুমি বলেছিলে ধরণীতে সবে সমান পুত্রবৎ॥প্রিয় নবীর দেখানো ইসলামী আদর্শে ফিরে যাওয়ার মাধ্যমে মুসলমানদের নবজাগরণই যে ছিল কবির সারা জীবনের স্বপ্ন, তার প্রমাণ রয়েছে কবির লেখা অসংখ্য কবিতা ও গানে। এ সত্য এড়িয়ে যাওয়ার কোনো উপায়ই নেই। অথচ আমাদের দেশের এক শ্রেণীর নেতা ও বুদ্ধিজীবী তথাকথিত অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা ও ধর্মনিরপেক্ষতার নামে বাংলাদেশকে ইসলামহীন রাষ্ট্রে পরিণত করার চেষ্টা চালিয়ে যাচ্ছেন, যার প্রমাণ তারা ইতোমধ্যেই রেখেছেন সংবিধান থেকে 'সর্বশক্তিমান আল্লাহতায়ালায় গভীর আস্থা ও বিশ্বাস' ধারা তুলে দিয়ে। তাদের এ অপচেষ্টা যে জনগণ কখনো মেনে নেবে না, তা তারা নিজেরাও বোঝেন। তাই সংবিধান থেকে 'সর্বশক্তিমান আল্লাহ তায়ালায় গভীর আস্থা ও বিশ্বাস' তুলে দিলেও জনগণের কাছে যাওয়ার প্রয়োজনে তাদের ব্যবহৃত বিভিন্ন গোষ্ঠীর ও প্রচারপত্রের একেবারে উপরিভাগে 'আল্লাহ সর্বশক্তিমান' শব্দ দুটি মুদ্রিত করতে কখনো ভোলেন না। প্রশ্ন হচ্ছে তাদের এই স্ববিরোধিতা 'আমাদের দেখতে হবে? কো বহিঃশক্তির মন যোগাতে দেশের কোটি কোটি ধর্মপ্রাণ মানুষের সাথে তারা চাতুর্থপুর্ণ পথ বেছে নিয়েছেন?একটি স্বতন্ত্র স্বাধীন রাষ্ট্র হিসেবে বাংলাদেশের অভ্যুদয়ের পেছনে সাতচল্লিশের পার্টিশনের এবং উনিশশ' চল্লিশের দ্বিজাতি তত্ত্বভিত্তিক লাহোর প্রস্তাবের যে ঐতিহাসিক ঋণ রয়েছে তা কি কোনোভাবে অস্বীকার করা যাবে? ঐ সত্য যেমন অস্বীকার করা যাবে না তেমনি অস্বীকার করা যাবে না এদেশের স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রামের বৈশিষ্ট্যপূর্ণ গতিধারা সম্পর্কে জাতীয় কবি কাজী নজরুল ইসলামের অসাধারণ সচেতনতার সত্যটি। উনিশশ' চল্লিশের লাহোর প্রস্তাবের মধ্যেই যে আজকের বাংলাদেশ নামে স্বাধীন মুসলিম প্রধান রাষ্ট্রটির বীজ নিহিত ছিল তা বুঝতে পেরে কবি ঐ প্রস্তাব পাসের পর পরই ছুটে গিয়েছিলেন সেদিনের মুসলিম জাগরণের অঘোষিত মুখপত্র দৈনিক আজাদ অফিসে, অনাগত ওই রাষ্ট্রের নাগরিকদের সঠিকভাবে গড়ে তোলার লক্ষ্যে 'মুকুলের মাহফিল' নামের কিশোর পাতা খোলার প্রস্তাব নিয়ে। সুতরাং কবি যে কখনো তথাকথিত অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা, ধর্মনিরপেক্ষতা প্রভৃতি বিভ্রান্তিকর কোনো ধারণায় নয়, বরং সারা জীবন ইসলামের সাম্য-ভ্রাতৃত্বের মহান আদর্শে বিশ্বাসী ছিলেন এ সত্য ধামাচাপা দেয়ার অপচেষ্টা যত দ্রুত বন্ধ হয় ততই দেশ ও জাতির জন্য মঙ্গল।




















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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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