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Tuesday, October 11, 2011

Re: [mukto-mona] Heart breaking news from KSA.



The Saudi ambassador should know that as Hazrat Ali and Fatima refused  allegiance to Abu Bakr, the first Caliph of Islam, Ali was forcibly removed from his house and his house was burned down.  As a result, Fatima, daugter of the prophet of Islam, was burned.  She died a day later.  Such a cruel event might have been sanctioned by Allah.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 6:33 AM, Jamal Hasan <poplu@hotmail.com> wrote:
 


 

Daily Star news:

http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=206005

 

Saudi Ambassador in Dhaka proudly and boldly defended beheading eight Bangladeshi young men. Ambassador responded to the question of Bangladeshi reporters by saying:

"The Saudi government acts to implement the law of Allah. We had nothing to do but to uphold the sanctions of Allah. The sharia law has been implemented through the execution," the ambassador said.

 





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Re: [mukto-mona] Would India be better off without British rule?



The basic point is whether Muslims named India as Hindustan or not.  Your comment was that they did so.  My observation is that the name was given by the ancient Persians who were not Muslims.  Persian language was spoken by most of the known world since the time of Sargon II, the script they used was Sanskrit.  This was later replaced by Kufic as the Assyrians rose to power and swept the world.  Aramaic, Arabic and other languages developed on the base of the Assyrian language.  Bangla in the present form was developed by the missionaries at Serampore, Vidyasagar etc.  Before that it was indeed a tribal language and treated as the language of low class uneducated people for good reasons.  Remember,"Bhasayang Manaba Shruta Rourabang Narakang Brajet"  For the level of interaction between India and abroad, I suggest the interested persons to read India and the World Civilization - Singhal.  Had the Persian language come from Persia by the Muslims, the Shiite would have ruled India, and not the Sunnis.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 5:40 PM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 

That is another rubbish, Mr. Rahman.  India and Persia had been interacting since the ancient times.  Veda and Avesta are alike.  Sind had been the most resourceful Persian colony.  Even the Persian language is old Sanskrit.

lol

Not really. I am aware of the common root of Sanskrit and Farsi. Both were spoken by the same Eurasian group that eventually settled in Iran and northern India (Thousands of years ago).

HOWEVER after Muslims united Indian sub-continent under one leader, they also introduced a "Common language" for state affairs ( Darbari language) . That was Farsi.

Before than time, both Sankrit and Farsi were language of scholars ONLY. As you know even Bangla was looked at as a language of the peasants. Sanskrit was the language of scholars. You must know only Brahmins were "allowed" to touch Veda or even listen to Veda. If a non-Brahmin person even listen to the "Slokas" of Veda, strong punishments were prescribed for those people ( In Manu).

For example many Kashmiri Hindus have Farsi names. I knew a man who's name is "Kaposh-e-Khuda". He is not only a Hindu, his father was in Indian military.


Farsi was very popular language not only in India but also in central Asian countries for along time. That is why we see Farsi names in many countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Ujbekistan, Tajkistan, Hindustan etc.

I am not saying what you said is wrong but without giving "Proper" context may mislead average people to a very different conclusion.

Peace!


-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Oct 11, 2011 7:33 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Would India be better off without British rule?

 
That is another rubbish, Mr. Rahman.  India and Persia had been interacting since the ancient times.  Veda and Avesta are alike.  Sind had been the most resourceful Persian colony.  Even the Persian language is old Sanskrit.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 1:28 AM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
Most of the Persian "Influence" came with Muslims. Now you know. :-)


-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Oct 9, 2011 9:19 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Would India be better off without British rule?

 
"Specifically if you understand that, the name "Hindustan" was given by Muslims. "  Were the ancient Persians Muslims too?  I did not know that! 

On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 1:23 AM, qar <qrahman@aim.com> wrote:
 
India had been already under foreign rulers for more than 500 years when British came in. I would feel ashamed to defend British rule had they occupied an independent India. Unfortunately, that was not the situation. I am trying to arrive at a logical conclusion, not emotional one.

>>>>>>>> help me understand your point here. So what India showcases today to the world the Taj mahal, Agra Fort, Jantar mantar, palaces are all "foreign"? Specifically if you understand that, the name "Hindustan" was given by Muslims. Also the modern India ( Which is the battle cry of fanatic Hindutva movement----Akhanda Bharat) is a creation of Mughal empire. Before them, India consistrd of small nation states often fighting with each other.

The British only built upon the central Delhi concept ( In fact they went back from Kolkata to Delhi) of the Muslims and modern Indians kept that system.

Most importantly when Hindus and Muslims were (Our forefathers) fighting the British Raj to kick them out of India in favor of Bahadur Shah Jafar, were those Hindus did not have the enough common sense in working for another foreign power? Why leaders of Hindu and Muslim communities found an unifying leader in Bahadur Shah Jafar IF Mughals were seen as foreigners?

Probably my knowledge is not as rich as yours, please share your wisdom with us. ;-)


-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Oct 8, 2011 8:05 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Would India be better off without British rule?

 
SB Said :
"I think this topic should be more about our own soul-searching. Shouldn't we feel ashamed to think that we are better today because of a foreign rule? Shouldn't we feel embarrassed to think that our loving forefathers were of too poor quality to advance us as much as what a sucking foreign ruling class did?"
 
Response:
 
We can be ashamed as much as we want, but that will not change the fact, and the fact is - India is better off today because of British rule, instead of Mughal rule. I have no shame to admit this fact. We have to judge the situation with proper context, and that is - India had been already under foreign rulers for more than 500 years when British came in. I would feel ashamed to defend British rule had they occupied an independent India. Unfortunately, that was not the situation. I am trying to arrive at a logical conclusion, not emotional one.
 
Thanks.
 
Jiten Roy
 


--- On Fri, 10/7/11, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Would India be better off without British rule?
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, October 7, 2011, 6:55 PM

 
All indications point to India staying more backward without the British rule.
 
The Mughals probably would have made India what the Muslim-ruled countries of the world look like today - deduct the oil-wealth. The little Hindu kings probably would have either gotten extinct, or kept licking the boots of the Mughal kings while feeling superior to their desperately poor low-caste co-religionists. The mass population of all religions would probably be quite miserable today. There is no reason to believe that without the British the Hindus would be as good today in terms of their caste-system and treatment of the women.
 
Having said all this, I would not jump into the praise-squad for the British. The British certainly did not do anything out of their love for the Indians.
 
I think this topic should be more about our own soul-searching. Shouldn't we feel ashamed to think that we are better today because of a foreign rule? Shouldn't we feel embarrassed to think that our loving forefathers were of too poor quality to advance us as much as what a sucking foreign ruling class did?
 
More later,
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2011 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Would India be better off without British rule?
 
Pre-British history of India is not well-known. That is a blind-spot in the Indian history. We know intricate details about British era, but not much about Mughal era. It could be due to lack of documentation or resources at the time. British ruled many other parts of the world, including part of North America, which fought a full-fledged battle against British. How come they do not have such strong resentment against British? How come other parts of the world, ruled by British, also do not possess such sentiment against them as Indians do? Indians tend to blame everything on British rule. We blame British for our thinking, we blame British for our administrative bureaucracy, we blame British for our education system, judicial system, communication system, etc. etc.
I know what happened in 1919 during the Jallianwallabag massacre, in which British troops opened fire on unarmed civilians in a mass gathering, protesting British rule. This was the time when Gandhi started his anti-British movement, and that's the price we paid to force British out of India. How much price Indians paid during Mughal rule, especially during Babar and Awrangzeb? Anybody has a clue? That is not my point of discussion. My point is - would India be better off without British rule? Let's extrapolate continued Moghal rule for another 200 years and contrast it with the India left behind by British rulers, and analyze the situation. I will appreciate your inputs on this point.
Jiten Roy --- On Wed, 10/5/11, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Tagore wrote Jana Gana Mana For Lord Krishna - Logically Proved.
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 5, 2011, 7:37 PM

JitenDa
 
When you believe that "I am thankful to British for their help in rebuilding India with their modern amenities, education systems, and judiciaries. Yes, they took some wealth back to England. Why not? You do not expect everything for free. Do you? After all, they came to India for business and occupied India for 200 years. They could have taken everything without investing a penny in India", I must say that Singh is right when he/she says that "our (please read 'your') thoughts are still controlled by British."
 
They did not do any thing out of love for the Indians. Every thing good we got was spillovers. Colonial exploitation was endless. Please reflect on what you have read from a typical history book. Think about indigo and poppy cultivation. Think how they put Tajmahal on auction to sell expensive stones after robbing all the gold and other precious metals and stones. Think about Jalianwalabag massacre, the way they retalitaed the sepoy mutiny, and countless other mischiefs. They did only that much as was necessay to carry out their business. Think about in what conditions they left India before running away.   
 
Your comment or love for British rule is not surprising as many among us cherish the same view. That's why it is really thought provoking and as such can be a good topic for debate.
 
Think about a scenario: British did not colonize India. Where would India stand today? Did India really need a colonial master to be what she is today? Could she be better?
 
Please, everybody, put ypour inputs.
 
Regards.
 
-Subimal 





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[ALOCHONA] Fwd:In reply to your questions about execution of 8 Bangladeshis



------ Forwarded message ----------

From: S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
Date: Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 10:27 PM
Subject: [KHABOR] In reply to your questions about execution of eight Bangladeshi persons
 

Dear all,


Assalamu Alaikum.


I feel there was miscarriage of justice in this case of murder of an Egyptian by Bangladeshis in Saudi Arabia. There was no eye –witness. It was done on the basis of their confessions apparently taken under pressure of some sort. This pressure was wrong as Prophet (sm) has discouraged such extraction of confession. A woman came to confess of her adultery, Prophet (sm) repeatedly refused to take confession.

Moreover beheading by sword publicly in Qisas cases has not been prescribed by Quran.This is not obligatory. Iran and Pakistan who follow Hadud law do not practice such public beheading. The death penalty if well-established can be carried out in jail in other better ways.

 

I must also mention that Saudi judicial system is still undeveloped in terms of procedure which is necessary for justice and protect accused.

 

Shah Abdul Hannan




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[mukto-mona] Protest in front of Saudi Embassy condemning the killing



সৌদি আরবে ৮ বাঙালির শিরোচ্ছেদের প্রতিবাদে কাল ১২ তারিখ বেলা ১১টায় বাংলাদেশের সৌদি দূতাবাসের সামনে বিক্ষোভ সমাবেশের আয়োজন করেছে ছাত্র-শিক্ষক-পেশাজীবি সাধারণ জনতা।

ঢাকাস্থ সৌদি দূতাবাসের ঠিকানা রোড: ২, গুলশান: ২, সৌদি দূতাবাস ঢাকা ।
(Road No. 92, Gulshan 02, Saudi Embassy).

এই বিক্ষোভে সর্বস্তরের জনগণের অংশগ্রহণ কামনা করা হচ্ছে । ঢাকা এবং পার্শ্ববর্তী এলাকায় অবস্থিত মুক্তমনা সদস্যদের এই বিক্ষোভে অংশ নেয়ার আহবান জানানো হচ্ছে।

এই আহবানটি আপনার বন্ধুবান্ধব এবং শুভান্যুধায়ীদের মাঝে ছড়িয়ে দিন।


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[mukto-mona] Petition against the executions in Saudi Arabia



October 11, 2011

***

Please take a quick moment to sign this petition against the barbaric practice of beheadings in Saudi Arabia.

***

Sign this Petition Instantly

Greetings,

I just signed the following petition addressed to: United Nations.

My signature indicates that I want the Saudi government to release the names and crimes of ALL persons awaiting the death penalty in their country, and place a moratorium on all executions IMMEDIATELY.

Make Saudi Arabia list the names of those who are on Death Row

Saudi Arabia is a country that is notorious for its deviation from judicial norms. Amongst the government's most egregious practices is the use of public beheading as punishment for a variety of crimes, including: murder, drug trafficking, rape, armed robbery repeated drug use, apostasy, adultery, witchcraft and sorcery.

We believe, in solidarity with the UN General Assembly, that the use of the death penalty, in any form, undermines human dignity, and are convinced that the halt of this practice contributes to the enhancement and progressive development of Human Rights. There is no conclusive evidence that the death penalty has any deterrent value, and any miscarriage or failure of justice in the death penalty's implementation is irreversible and irreparable.

Furthermore, capital punishment as practiced in Saudi Arabia is uniquely grotesque. A large percentage of those condemned to execution in the Kingdom are foreign nationals. The accused typically lack proper legal representation, and are frequently unaware of the nature of the charges against them.

Recently 10 persons, including 8 Bangladeshi migrant workers were beheaded in Riyadh. Although the charges of murder and robbery were levied against them in 2007, no news of the situation was made public until after the execution was completed. This unacceptable level of secrecy is part and parcel with the larger miscarriage that is the Saudi judicial system. There are at least 100 persons currently on Death Row in Saudi Arabia, as well as 5 Bangladeshi nationals. There identities are not publicly known.

This petition is important because no effort can be made to stay the executions of those on death row in Saudi Arabia until their names and the nature of the crimes are made publicly available. If the UN resolution mandating a moratorium of state executions has any meaning, then the Saudi government must release the names of those whom it has condemned to die.


Sincerely,

[Your name]

Sign this Petition Instantly

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[mukto-mona] Breakling News: What's PM's faith? Asks Khaleda

What's PM's faith? Asks Khaleda
Tue, Oct 11th, 2011 10:28 pm BdST Dial 2000 from your GP mobile for latest news




Sylhet, Oct 11 (bdnews24.com)—BNP chairperson Khaleda Zia has questioned about the religion of prime minister Sheikh Hasina.

"Prime minister Sheikh Hasina told a Durga Puja function that our Maa Durga has arrived by elephant…we want to know which religion she actually believes in," the opposition chief told a public meeting at the city's Alia Madrasa ground on Tuesday.

She also slated Hasina for the dropping the words 'Absolute Faith and Trust in Allah' from the constitution.

"Our prime minister has abolished absolute faith and trust in Allah from the constitution," the opposition leader said.

Islam was retained as the state religion through the 15th Amendment to the constitution. The amendment also restored secularism as one of the four main pillars of the constitution ensuring equal rights and dignity for the people of other religions.

bdnews24.com/sm/ost/bd/2119h


My comment: Interestingly Prime Minister Hasina did not withdraw her comment about Ma Durga yet , nor declared Tauba for Shirk(parting someone with Allah Rabbul Alamin).
If her comment is true, she should explain her position to the nation. If she is secular or anything else t she must declare that for the greater interest of the republic and its people.

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[mukto-mona] [Advocate Shahanur Islam (Saikot)] STATEMENT: Saudi Arabia executes eight Bangladeshi nationals:Executions have resumed in Saudi Arabia at an alarming rate since Ramadan.



[http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/saudi-arabia-executes-eight-bangladeshi-nationals-2011-10-07]

Eight Bangladeshi men have been executed in the Saudi Arabian capital Riyadh on Friday.

The migrant workers, who were beheaded in public, were sentenced to death for the alleged murder of an Egyptian man in April 2007.

Since the end of the Holy month of Ramadan, executions have resumed in Saudi Arabia at an alarming rate.

"Court proceedings in Saudi Arabia fall far short of international standards for fair trial and news of these recent multiple executions is deeply disturbing," said Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui, Amnesty International's Deputy Director for Middle East and North Africa.

"The Saudi authorities appear to have increased the number of executions in recent months, a move that puts the country at odds with the worldwide trend against the death penalty."

"The government must establish an immediate moratorium on executions in the Kingdom and commute all death sentences, with a view to abolishing the death penalty completely," she added.

The beheadings bring the number of executions in Saudi Arabia this year to at least 58, more than double than the 2010 figures. Twenty of those executed in 2011 were foreign nationals.

The Bangladeshi men who were executed are Ma'mun Abdul Mannan, Faruq Jamal, Sumon Miah, Mohammed Sumon, Shafiq al-Islam, Mas'ud Shamsul Haque, Abu al-Hussain Ahmed, Mutir al-Rahman.

According to reports, the Egyptian man was killed during a clash between the Bangladeshi workers and a group of men who allegedly were stealing electric cable from a building complex where the Bangladeshis worked.

Three other Bangladeshis were sentenced to prison terms and flogging.

Two other Saudi nationals were executed in the northern city of Tabuk, bringing the total number of executions on Friday to ten.

Many of those executed in Saudi Arabia in recent years have been foreign nationals, mostly migrant workers from poor and developing countries.
Defendants often have no defence lawyer and are unable to follow court proceedings in Arabic. They are also rarely allowed formal representation by a lawyer, and in many cases are not informed of the progress of legal proceedings against them.

They, and many of the Saudi Arabians who are executed, also have no access to influential figures such as government authorities or heads of tribes, nor to money, both crucial factors in paying blood money or securing a pardon in murder cases.

Saudi Arabia applies the death penalty for a wide range of offences.

They may be convicted solely on the basis of confessions obtained under duress or deception.

At least 158 people, including 76 foreign nationals, were executed by the Saudi Arabian authorities in 2007. In 2008 some 102 people, including almost 40 foreign nationals, were executed.

In 2009, at least 69 people are known to have been executed, including 19 foreign nationals and in 2010, at least 27 people were executed including six foreign nationals.

© Amnesty International


--
Posted By JusticeMakers Bangladesh to Advocate Shahanur Islam (Saikot) at 10/11/2011 11:49:00 PM

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Re: [mukto-mona] FW: THE PARTITION AND TODAY'S PAKISTAN









From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>
To:
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 3:51 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] FW: THE PARTITION AND TODAY'S PAKISTAN




 

Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 22:26:20 +0100
Subject: THE PARTITION AND TODAY'S PAKISTAN



I would like to share this review of a book that my friend, Prof Ishtiaq Ahmed, had been working on for many years. I have not read it yet, but I know it is an important book that attempts at uncluttering the understanding of the pain and disaster of Partition. Away from Punjab, on the Eastern front, it may even help us understand the 'conspiracy' of the War Criminals of 1971 that we are finding so onerous to prosecute in Bangladesh. Thank you Ishtiaq, and congratulations!
 
<< There is yet another book added to the long list dealing with the Partition of the subcontinent. But this book is different. Entitled Punjab Bloodied, Partitioned and Cleansed, it is written by Mr. Ishtiaq Ahmed, a Pakistani based in Sweden. Mr. Ahmed is a professor of political science at the Stockholm University. He spent 15 years of research to write this book. The long endeavor is visible in the book. The result is rewarding. >>
 
The Partition and Today's Pakistan
By Rajinder Puri


Please click here or copy & paste the link given below to view it.
http://www.boloji.com/index.cfm?md=Content&sd=Articles&ArticleID=11524

Regards
Farida Majid






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Re: [mukto-mona] Masked jihadis enter Pakistani girls school and beat up students not wearing hijab

As far as I know this is against the teaching of Islam. Forcing religion brings unsavory results. Religion has to be accepted voluntarily.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jamal Hasan <poplu@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Oct 11, 2011 7:33 am
Subject: [mukto-mona] Masked jihadis enter Pakistani girls school and beat up students not wearing hijab

 

From: tarek.fatah
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 19:43:48 -0400
Subject: Masked jihadis enter Pakistani girls school and beat up students not wearing hijab

Friends,

These are the ugly men who will migrate to Canada one day, and join the various leftwing movements as stars. And the beaten up girls? Well they will remain there to suffer a miserable life of subjugation as Canada's feminists will march with the jihadis.

It is a sad day that we cannot stop these bastards from entering Canada because we care more for the image and reputation of Pakistan than the country of our citizenship, Canada.

Tarek
------------

Dress modestly: 

Masked men enter girls' school, thrash students

Published: October 9, 2011
Fear grips Satellite Town schools as 60 men beat up students for dressing 'inappropriately'.
RAWALPINDI: 
In a first for the garrison city, sixty masked men carrying iron rods barged into a girls' school in Rawalpindi and thrashed students and female teachers on Friday.
The gang of miscreants also warned the inmates at the MC Model Girls High School in Satellite Town to "dress modestly and wear hijabs" or face the music, eyewitnesses said.
Fear gripped the area following the attack and only 25 of the 400 students studying in the college were present on Saturday. The school employs 30 female teachers.
Attendance in other educational institutions also remained low. After hearing about the attack, all schools in the city shut down, an official of the Rawalpindi District Administration (RDA) told The Express Tribune.
A student of the girls' school managed to inform the administration of the nearby boys' high school of the attack. "[However,] the armed gang was so powerful that we could not rescue our teachers and colleagues over there," Noail Javed, a grade 10 student, said.
In-charge of MC High Schools in Rawalpindi issued a notification to the heads of all girls' schools to take pre-emptive measures to avoid such incidents in future. According to the notification, a gang comprising 60 to 70 miscreants entered into the school from a gate that was "strangely open".
All the MC school heads were assigned the responsibility of protecting the students by the notification. A school headmistress wishing not to be named said, "How is it possible for us to protect the students from such elements. The city administration should review its security plan."
The notification also suggested that the heads should not inform the students about the situation, so that they are not alarmed into skipping school. "Police is investigating the matter," the notification said. Following the notification, the heads of the schools also shared the numbers of relevant police stations with the teachers in case of any untoward situation in future.
Asjad Ali, a student of class 9 at the nearby boys' high school, said that his younger brother Awais, a student of grade 5, was also among those who were brutally beaten by the miscreants with iron rods. "The police did not come," he said.
A police official of the New Town Police Station, asking for anonymity, told The Express Tribune, "We were under strict instructions to do nothing."
District Education Officer Qazi Zahoor and Rawalpindi Commissioner Zahid Saeed were not immediately available for comments.
Published in The Express Tribune, October 9th, 2011.