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Saturday, August 15, 2015

Re: [mukto-mona] The savages!



I can guess you have read the entire Koran word for word and between lines. I am nowhere near you in this respect. My perception about Islam has been shaped by the writings of authors like Ibrahim Khan, Yakub Ali Chowdhury, Nazrul Islam, Dr. Shahidullah, Gholam Mistafa, Barkatullah, Mir Mosharraf Hossain, and so on. Many bards like Lalon and Sufi poets also have important role in shaping my perception. During my school years I had to read a memoir by Dr. Suniti Chatterjee in which there is a dialog between the author and a very ordinary Muslim co-passenger of the ship. I have grown up with Muslims along with my fellow Hindus. I still have many Muslim friends. Many of them are very religious. Are they not true Muslims? They will claim they are. 

My wife is proud of being a Hindu although he does not follow many things that an orthodox Hindu follows. Is she not a true Hindu? By Manu's standard she is not. If a fundamentalist view of a religion is the true religion, then should we trash the other views and thereby brand them as false Hindus? Why would they tolerate it? We have to see how she interprets her religious teachings and how much she accepts and how much she remains silent about. 

The problem with religion is that it is embedded in our psyche so deeply that it would be almost an impossible proposition to separate it from our lives. The lifelong confirmed atheist Dr. Ahmed Sharif understood this reality quite well. That's why attempts to bury religions by the communists or the proponents of Lokayata (Carvak) philosophy turned out to be boomerang. The best way would be to enlighten people through modern education, not by demeaning his religion but allowing them complete freedom in practicing his own religion in a more and more universally appealing way. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 15, 2015, at 8:01 PM, Abul Kasem abul88@hotmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Please tell us why these jihadists are not true Muslims.

 

From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 16:37:05 -0500
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] The savages!

 
Looks like only Mr. Abul Kasem and Abu-Bakr-Al-Baghdadi have fully understood the Islam preached by Muhammed. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 15, 2015, at 2:04 PM, Abul Kasem abul88@hotmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 


He is not savage; he is a true Muslim.

He practices Islam as preached and practiced by Muhammad.




From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 20:39:55 -0400
Subject: [mukto-mona] The savages!

 




__._,_.___

Posted by: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>


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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





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RE: [mukto-mona] The savages!



Please tell us why these jihadists are not true Muslims.

 

From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 16:37:05 -0500
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] The savages!

 
Looks like only Mr. Abul Kasem and Abu-Bakr-Al-Baghdadi have fully understood the Islam preached by Muhammed. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 15, 2015, at 2:04 PM, Abul Kasem abul88@hotmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 


He is not savage; he is a true Muslim.

He practices Islam as preached and practiced by Muhammad.




From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 20:39:55 -0400
Subject: [mukto-mona] The savages!

 




__._,_.___

Posted by: Abul Kasem <abul88@hotmail.com>


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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





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[mukto-mona] খালেদার জন্মদিন পাঁচটি



খালেদার জন্মদিন পাঁচটি
সংবাদ ডেস্ক

বিএনপি চেয়ারপারসন বেগম খালেদা জিয়ার পাসপোর্টের দুইটি ছবি সম্প্রতি ফেসবুকে ছড়িয়ে পড়েছে। এতে দেখা যায়, প্রথম পাসপোর্টে বেগম জিয়ার জন্মদিন উল্লেখ করা হয়েছে ৫ আগস্ট ১৯৪৬ সাল। এই পাসপোর্টটির মেয়াদ ২০১৪ সালের মে মাসে শেষ হয়েছে। আর দ্বিতীয়টি একটি মেশিন রিডেবল পাসপোর্ট। এতে জন্মদিন উল্লেখ করা হয়েছে ৫ আগস্ট ১৯৪৪ সাল। যদি ছবিগুলো জাল না হয় তবে খালেদার জন্মদিনের মোট সংখ্যা দাঁড়ায় পাঁচটি। আগস্ট ৫, ১৯৪৪; আগস্ট ৫, ১৯৪৬; আগস্ট ১৯, ১৯৪৭; সেপ্টেম্বর ৫, ১৯৪৬ এবং ১৫ আগস্টের, ১৯.. (বছর উল্লেখ নেই)।খালেদা জিয়া নব্বইয়ের মাঝামাঝি থেকে ১৫ আগস্টকে তার জন্মদিন হিসেবে উদযাপন করছেন। যা বঙ্গবন্ধু শেখ মুজিবুর রহমানের মৃত্যুবার্ষিকীর সঙ্গে মিল রেখে করা হয়েছে বলে ধারণা। এর আগে বিভিন্ন মিডিয়ার রিপোর্টে তার বিভিন্ন জন্ম তারিখ উল্লেখ করা হয়। এক রিপোর্টে বলা হয়, তার ম্যাট্রিকের ফরমে জন্ম তারিখ সেপ্টেম্বর ৫, ১৯৪৬ উল্লেখ রয়েছে। এছাড়া বিয়ের সার্টিফিকেট এবং প্রধানমন্ত্রী হিসেবে শপথ রেকর্ডে খালেদা তার জন্মদিন হিসাবে আগস্ট ৫, ১৯৪৪ এবং আগস্ট ১৯, ১৯৪৭ ব্যবহার করেছিলেন বলে জানা যায়।যখন শেখ হাসিনা ১৯৯৬ সালে ক্ষমতায় আসেন তখন তিনি ১৫ আগস্টকে জাতীয় শোক দিবস এবং জাতীয় ছুটির দিন হিসেবে ঘোষণা করেন। এরপর খালেদা ২০০১ সালে ক্ষমতায় আসলে সে জাতীয় শোক দিবস এবং জাতীয় ছুটি বাতিল করা হয়। হাসিনা আবার ২০০৯ সালে ক্ষমতায় আসার পর পুনরুদ্ধার করে।এই সপ্তাহে খালেদা জিয়া স্বাস্থ্য পরীক্ষার জন্য প্রায় এক সপ্তাহের জন্য লন্ডন যাচ্ছেন। এটি তার এতগুলো বছরের বিতর্ক এড়ানোর চেষ্টা হতে পারে বলে অনেকে মনে করছেন।



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Posted by: Nurul Bachchu <bachchuhaq13@yahoo.com>


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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





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Re: [mukto-mona] How Nazism Explains ‘Moderate’ and ‘Radical’ Islam



Not only Islam, every religion has many versions. Every religion has many sacred books. There are many interpretations of what has been written in these sacred books. Interpretations vary from person to person, from school to school, and also even from state to state. That is why we see so many different forms of practices. Sense of humanity, political and cultural orientations, and even the level of one's appreciation of art and literature and music greatly influence his religious practice. 

As a religion or an ideology if you will Islam is great like any other religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, or Christianity. Hinduism cannot be reduced to a rubbish just by looking at the the casteism it supports or the way it subjugates it's women. Similarly this argument applies to Islam or any other great religion. 

Nazism as an ideology survived for say fifty years while all the great religions have survived through ages although they had to go through ups and downs. For the sake of survival and for making themselves universally more and more appealing they have been continually adapting themselves to the new circumstances. There have been always setbacks and infightings. This is such a time. The Muslims are now facing a great challenge. We are now passing through a critical juncture of human history. Obviously militant Islam has added to this situation. 

Nazism was not only an extreme ideology in terms of its chauvinism and it was not only a hardcore anti-Jewish political party, it was extreme in many other ways. It's wish was to uproot every race except his own one. Particularly it hated Slavs, Russians, and Asians. It's plan was to subjugate women and confine them within the four walls. It's plan was to exterminate homosexuals and the physically disabled. 

The bottom line is that any sort of comparison between Nazism and Islam would be very wrong. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 15, 2015, at 3:50 PM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I agree with the writer that - Nazism and Islam have many similarities; they are both supremacist ideologies. One striking difference between them is - Nazis were not smart enough to invent the term – 'moderate Nazis.' As a result, the world came to know and hate all Nazis, including the nonchalant supporters of Nazism also.
Now, the question is – whether many who supported Nazis only out of national/racial pride, but did not support the genocidal acts by Nazis, should be called Nazis or not. As far as  know, the nonchalant supporters do not even want them to be recognized as Nazis, meaning they don't want to have anything to do with the Nazi-savagery. That's where the followers of Islam differ; here, both the radical and the nonchalant/moderate followers claim to be the 'true' followers of Islam, as the truth lies in the eye of the beholder.

 

From: "Dristy Pat dristypat5@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2015 2:22 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] How Nazism Explains 'Moderate' and 'Radical' Islam

 

How Nazism Explains 'Moderate' and 'Radical' Islam

Were non-violent Nazis the "real" Nazis?
August 14, 2015 - 10:33 am
If Islamic doctrines are inherently violent, why isn't every single Muslim in the world — that is, approximately 1.5 billion people — violent?
This question represents one of Islam's most popular apologetics: because not all Muslims are violent, intolerant, or sponsor terrorism — a true statement — Islam itself must be innocent.
Let's consider this logic.
There are many people who identify themselves as Muslims but who do not necessarily adhere to or support Islam's more supremacist and intolerant doctrines. If you have lived in a Muslim majority nation, you would know this to be true. The all-important question then becomes: "What do such Muslims represent?" Are they following a legitimate, "moderate" version of Islam, one more authentic than the terrorist variety?
That's what the media, politicians, and academics would have us believe. The best way to answer this question is by analogy.
German Nazism is a widely condemned ideology due to its ("Aryan"/"white") supremacist element. But many Germans who were members or supporters of the Nazi party were "good" people. They did not believe in persecuting Jews and other "non-Aryans," and some even helped such "undesirables" escape at no small risk to themselves. Consider Oskar Schindler: An ethnic German and formal member of the Nazi party, he went to great lengths to save Jews from slaughter.
How do we reconcile his good deed with his bad creed? Was Schindler practicing a legitimate, "moderate" form of Nazism? Or is it more reasonable to say that he subscribed to some tenets of National Socialism, but when it came to killing fellow humans in the name of racial supremacy, his humanity rose above his allegiance to Nazism?
Indeed, many Germans joined or supported the National Socialist Party more because it was the "winning" party, one that offered hope, and less because of its racial theories. That said, other Germans joined the Nazi party precisely because of its racial supremacist theories and were only too happy to see "sub-humans" incinerated.
Now consider how this analogy applies to Islam and Muslims: first, unlike most Germans who chose to join or support the Nazi party, the overwhelming majority of Muslims around the world were simply born into Islam. They had no choice. Many of these Muslims know the bare minimum about Islam — the Five Pillars — and are ignorant of Islam's supremacist theories.
Add Islam's apostasy law to the mix — leaving Islam can earn the death penalty — and it becomes clear that there are many nominal "Muslims" who seek not to rock the boat.
That said, there are also a great many Muslims who know exactly what Islam teaches — including violence, plunder, and enslavement of the kafir, or infidel — and who happily follow it precisely because of its supremacism.
In both Nazism and Islam, we have a supremacist ideology on the one hand, and people who find themselves associated with this ideology for a number of reasons on the other hand. We have those born into it, those who join it for its temporal boons, and those who are sincere and ardent believers.
The all-important difference is this: when it comes to Nazism, the world is agreed that it is a supremacist ideology.
Those who followed it to the core were "bad guys" — such as Adolf Hitler. As for the "good Nazis" who helped shelter persecuted Jews and performed other altruistic deeds, the world acknowledges that they were not following a "moderate" form of Nazism, but that their commitment to Nazism was nonchalant at best.




__._,_.___

Posted by: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] How Nazism Explains ‘Moderate’ and ‘Radical’ Islam



There is actually another big difference between Islam and Nazism. Nazism was a nationalistic and socialistic movement with a good deal of religious diversity, even though most Nazis were protestant Christians, and even tough they were brutal to the Jews. It was not fanatic about what is known as God.

On the other hand, Islam is fanatic about God; even moderate Muslims are too fanatic about Allah (Arabic word for God) and Mohammad. Distinguish between fanaticism and barbarism/terrorism; most Muslims are not barbarians/terrorists, but they are too superstitious/fanatic. Without the superstition and fanaticism in the broader Muslim societies, the barbarians/terrorists of Islam could not be as active as they have been in many parts of the world.

SuBain
==============================



On Saturday, August 15, 2015 3:32 PM, "Dristy Pat dristypat5@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 

How Nazism Explains 'Moderate' and 'Radical' Islam

Were non-violent Nazis the "real" Nazis?
August 14, 2015 - 10:33 am
If Islamic doctrines are inherently violent, why isn't every single Muslim in the world — that is, approximately 1.5 billion people — violent?
This question represents one of Islam's most popular apologetics: because not all Muslims are violent, intolerant, or sponsor terrorism — a true statement — Islam itself must be innocent.
Let's consider this logic.
There are many people who identify themselves as Muslims but who do not necessarily adhere to or support Islam's more supremacist and intolerant doctrines. If you have lived in a Muslim majority nation, you would know this to be true. The all-important question then becomes: "What do such Muslims represent?" Are they following a legitimate, "moderate" version of Islam, one more authentic than the terrorist variety?
That's what the media, politicians, and academics would have us believe. The best way to answer this question is by analogy.
German Nazism is a widely condemned ideology due to its ("Aryan"/"white") supremacist element. But many Germans who were members or supporters of the Nazi party were "good" people. They did not believe in persecuting Jews and other "non-Aryans," and some even helped such "undesirables" escape at no small risk to themselves. Consider Oskar Schindler: An ethnic German and formal member of the Nazi party, he went to great lengths to save Jews from slaughter.
How do we reconcile his good deed with his bad creed? Was Schindler practicing a legitimate, "moderate" form of Nazism? Or is it more reasonable to say that he subscribed to some tenets of National Socialism, but when it came to killing fellow humans in the name of racial supremacy, his humanity rose above his allegiance to Nazism?
Indeed, many Germans joined or supported the National Socialist Party more because it was the "winning" party, one that offered hope, and less because of its racial theories. That said, other Germans joined the Nazi party precisely because of its racial supremacist theories and were only too happy to see "sub-humans" incinerated.
Now consider how this analogy applies to Islam and Muslims: first, unlike most Germans who chose to join or support the Nazi party, the overwhelming majority of Muslims around the world were simply born into Islam. They had no choice. Many of these Muslims know the bare minimum about Islam — the Five Pillars — and are ignorant of Islam's supremacist theories.
Add Islam's apostasy law to the mix — leaving Islam can earn the death penalty — and it becomes clear that there are many nominal "Muslims" who seek not to rock the boat.
That said, there are also a great many Muslims who know exactly what Islam teaches — including violence, plunder, and enslavement of the kafir, or infidel — and who happily follow it precisely because of its supremacism.
In both Nazism and Islam, we have a supremacist ideology on the one hand, and people who find themselves associated with this ideology for a number of reasons on the other hand. We have those born into it, those who join it for its temporal boons, and those who are sincere and ardent believers.
The all-important difference is this: when it comes to Nazism, the world is agreed that it is a supremacist ideology.
Those who followed it to the core were "bad guys" — such as Adolf Hitler. As for the "good Nazis" who helped shelter persecuted Jews and performed other altruistic deeds, the world acknowledges that they were not following a "moderate" form of Nazism, but that their commitment to Nazism was nonchalant at best.




__._,_.___

Posted by: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] The savages!



Looks like only Mr. Abul Kasem and Abu-Bakr-Al-Baghdadi have fully understood the Islam preached by Muhammed. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 15, 2015, at 2:04 PM, Abul Kasem abul88@hotmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

He is not savage; he is a true Muslim.

He practices Islam as preached and practiced by Muhammad.




From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 20:39:55 -0400
Subject: [mukto-mona] The savages!

 



__._,_.___

Posted by: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] How Nazism Explains ‘Moderate’ and ‘Radical’ Islam



I agree with the writer that - Nazism and Islam have many similarities; they are both supremacist ideologies. One striking difference between them is - Nazis were not smart enough to invent the term – 'moderate Nazis.' As a result, the world came to know and hate all Nazis, including the nonchalant supporters of Nazism also.
Now, the question is – whether many who supported Nazis only out of national/racial pride, but did not support the genocidal acts by Nazis, should be called Nazis or not. As far as  know, the nonchalant supporters do not even want them to be recognized as Nazis, meaning they don't want to have anything to do with the Nazi-savagery. That's where the followers of Islam differ; here, both the radical and the nonchalant/moderate followers claim to be the 'true' followers of Islam, as the truth lies in the eye of the beholder.

 

From: "Dristy Pat dristypat5@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2015 2:22 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] How Nazism Explains 'Moderate' and 'Radical' Islam

 

How Nazism Explains 'Moderate' and 'Radical' Islam

Were non-violent Nazis the "real" Nazis?
August 14, 2015 - 10:33 am
If Islamic doctrines are inherently violent, why isn't every single Muslim in the world — that is, approximately 1.5 billion people — violent?
This question represents one of Islam's most popular apologetics: because not all Muslims are violent, intolerant, or sponsor terrorism — a true statement — Islam itself must be innocent.
Let's consider this logic.
There are many people who identify themselves as Muslims but who do not necessarily adhere to or support Islam's more supremacist and intolerant doctrines. If you have lived in a Muslim majority nation, you would know this to be true. The all-important question then becomes: "What do such Muslims represent?" Are they following a legitimate, "moderate" version of Islam, one more authentic than the terrorist variety?
That's what the media, politicians, and academics would have us believe. The best way to answer this question is by analogy.
German Nazism is a widely condemned ideology due to its ("Aryan"/"white") supremacist element. But many Germans who were members or supporters of the Nazi party were "good" people. They did not believe in persecuting Jews and other "non-Aryans," and some even helped such "undesirables" escape at no small risk to themselves. Consider Oskar Schindler: An ethnic German and formal member of the Nazi party, he went to great lengths to save Jews from slaughter.
How do we reconcile his good deed with his bad creed? Was Schindler practicing a legitimate, "moderate" form of Nazism? Or is it more reasonable to say that he subscribed to some tenets of National Socialism, but when it came to killing fellow humans in the name of racial supremacy, his humanity rose above his allegiance to Nazism?
Indeed, many Germans joined or supported the National Socialist Party more because it was the "winning" party, one that offered hope, and less because of its racial theories. That said, other Germans joined the Nazi party precisely because of its racial supremacist theories and were only too happy to see "sub-humans" incinerated.
Now consider how this analogy applies to Islam and Muslims: first, unlike most Germans who chose to join or support the Nazi party, the overwhelming majority of Muslims around the world were simply born into Islam. They had no choice. Many of these Muslims know the bare minimum about Islam — the Five Pillars — and are ignorant of Islam's supremacist theories.
Add Islam's apostasy law to the mix — leaving Islam can earn the death penalty — and it becomes clear that there are many nominal "Muslims" who seek not to rock the boat.
That said, there are also a great many Muslims who know exactly what Islam teaches — including violence, plunder, and enslavement of the kafir, or infidel — and who happily follow it precisely because of its supremacism.
In both Nazism and Islam, we have a supremacist ideology on the one hand, and people who find themselves associated with this ideology for a number of reasons on the other hand. We have those born into it, those who join it for its temporal boons, and those who are sincere and ardent believers.
The all-important difference is this: when it comes to Nazism, the world is agreed that it is a supremacist ideology.
Those who followed it to the core were "bad guys" — such as Adolf Hitler. As for the "good Nazis" who helped shelter persecuted Jews and performed other altruistic deeds, the world acknowledges that they were not following a "moderate" form of Nazism, but that their commitment to Nazism was nonchalant at best.




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Posted by: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>


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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





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