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Friday, January 9, 2015

[mukto-mona] Fwd: Religious speech: freedom of expression or insult?



 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: mahfuzur <mahfuzur@aol.com>
To: msa40 <msa40@aol.com>; poplu <poplu@hotmail.com>; skmirza.mirza <skmirza.mirza@gmail.com>; abul88 <abul88@hotmail.com>; makhan00 <makhan00@gmail.com>; anis90242 <anis90242@gmail.com>; anisur.rahman1 <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 9, 2015 2:20 pm
Subject: Re: Religious speech: freedom of expression or insult?

You are right to ask, Asghar sahib. Indeed, the mettle of the new "Titan" will be tested in thee forthcoming trial of Fatma Naout. If he is such a Titan, he should be able to defend a woman whose only offence is that she spoke against animal sacrifice at the Eid-ul-Azha. That sacrifice is not even required in the Koran. If he cannot prevent punishment for speaking against a practice that is not even sanctioned in the Koran  -- it is required only as a hajj ritual, itself a pagan tradition -- he is not much of a titan. Let us wait and see. But we should not be holding our breath.
 
Mahfuzur Rahman
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Msa40 <msa40@aol.com>
To: poplu <poplu@hotmail.com>; skmirza.mirza <skmirza.mirza@gmail.com>; abul88 <abul88@hotmail.com>; makhan00 <makhan00@gmail.com>; mahfuzur <mahfuzur@aol.com>; anis90242 <anis90242@gmail.com>; anisur.rahman1 <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 9, 2015 1:37 pm
Subject: Re: Religious speech: freedom of expression or insult?

 
How does the prosecution of a person, who opposes massacre of animals on a world-wide
scale, square off with what Pres. Sisis had said a few days ago about a change in the Muslims'
thoughts and beliefs?
 
 
 
Regards,
 
Mohammad Asghar
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Jamal Hasan < poplu@hotmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 9, 2015 4:56 am
Subject: Religious speech: freedom of expression or insult?

 

Religious speech: freedom of expression or insult?

Religious speech: freedom of expression or insult?
Columnist Fatma Naout - YOUM7 (Archive)
CAIRO: Columnist Fatma Naoot, accused of insulting Islam, will stand trial on Jan. 28 on allegations she criticized Islamic animal sacrifices, even though some clerics and conservatives say the charge is "broad" and contradicts freedom of expression.
Naoot wrote a Facebook post in October in which she expressed her disagreement with the traditional practice of slaughtering animals during the Islamic Eid al-Adha (Feast of Sacrifice) and described it as the "biggest massacre."
She wrote that she would not take part in this "massacre that is committed by humans for 10 and half centuries and which they continue to repeat with a smile." She added that the practice started because of a "nightmare by a good man regarding his son," referring to the willingness of biblical figure Abraham to sacrifice his son when ordered by God in a vision to do so.
Facing scrutiny over her opinion, Naoot posted a clarification on her Facebook page saying her statements were meant to be taken wrong by members of the   Muslim Brotherhood. "I respect all divine religions, non-divine ones and everyone who searches for the divine, but I do not respect those who trade in the name of religion," Naoot told The Cairo Post Sunday.
Furthermore, she said she believed those who filed the lawsuit against her are "Brotherhood [members] who took an interest in me beginning in 2005 after I started tracking their flaws."
She also said Facebook posts are private and sometimes include jokes, so "it is strange to be tried for Facebook posts; it is not even an article in a newspaper." However, she added, "I stress that I respect the Egyptian judiciary and the prosecution that referred my case… and whatever the result will be, it is going to be a simple price for [me] so as not to be fake."
Insulting religion: does charge need adjustment or removal?
Naoot is not the only Egyptian currently facing charges of insulting religion this year, "as some Shiites, Copts, writers and others are now standing trials or being investigated on the same charge," Isaac Ibrahim, human rights researcher at the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights (EIPR), told The Cairo Post Sunday.
A misdemeanor court upheld in March a five-year prison sentence against author   Karam Saber  for insulting God in his stories.
Following Saber's verdict, Human Rights Watch called on Egyptian authorities to stop pursuing writers and abolish laws violating freedom of expression, including those banning "contempt of religion."
Ibrahim said that it was his opinion insulting religion is "a charge pursued against bloggers and thinkers for expressing their opinions in issues related to religion or in some cases for liking [religion-related] posts on Facebook; however, the Constitution guarantees freedom of both expression and beliefs."
Article 98F in the Egyptian Penal Code stipulates that those who use religion in talking, writing or by any method to "instigate sedition and division or disdain and contempt of any of the heavenly religions or the sects belonging thereto" will be sentenced to not less than six months and up to five years in prison.
"What does disdain mean? The article is very elastic. There should be clarification when talking about religion as to when it is an act of freedom of expression and when it is an insult," said Ibrahim. He added that article 98 "violates the right to freedom of expression in the Egyptian Constitution and international conventions."
Ibrahim said he has attended a number of trials in which people were facing charges of insulting religion, and said "the trials are mostly built on the person's affiliations and inclinations and not the crime itself, and sometimes the defendants are asked about their religious commitment."
He added he has observed an increase in such filed cases since the   January 25 Revolution of 2011.
EIPR released a report titled "Thinking Siege" in August 2013 citing 36 religious disdain legal cases filed between 2011 and 2012. The report said "it is a big number indicating the size of the challenge facing the freedom of expression in general and the freedom of religion and belief in particular."
When he was asked to comment on Naoot's case, Ahmed Kreema, a professor of comparative jurisprudence at the Faculty of Islamic and Arabic Studies at   Al-Azhar University, told The Cairo Post Sunday that as an Islamic scholar, he did not see the need to bring such religious disdain cases to court.
"I am against ambushing people. In Naoot's case and in others like hers, the scholar's role is to teach and correct mistaken thoughts by argument and proof—not by trials—if the thought is proven mistaken," Kreema said.  "This is Islam's approach and this is how the Prophet Mohamed wisely dealt with similar cases."
"The scales are deranged in Egypt, where pulling [people] to courts is considered an act of heroism," he continued. He argued that the definition of the charge "disdain of religion" needs more adjustments by Al-Azhar Institute, as he believes that such legal loopholes pass very "trivial and baseless" cases to the courts.


__._,_.___

Posted by: "mahfuzur@aol.com" <mahfuzur@aol.com>


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[mukto-mona] Re: Egypt’s President Sisi: A Titan For Freedom in the Islamic World Calls for Reformation of Islam.



Gentlemen:

Thank you all for your valuable comments. Although I am somewhat in full agreement with all of your's appropriate comments about the speech of Pres. Sisi of Egypt, I must say: President Sisi is very courageous to my judgement. Unfortunately, Sisi's great comment did not get appropriate medias attention, I don't know why! May be Medias did not understand his unusual speech at all. Let's hope that the recent Jihadis actions in France may jolt the appeasing mindsets of western enmedias and do act positively to save the western civilization. I think, these four al-qaeda jihadists in France made  some good job of killing most of the Taqqiya practices of western useful idiots. West must rise up from their PC nonsensical dream and taste the real coffee offered by those four Islamic jihadists in France.


SKM 











On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 7:02 PM, Shah DeEldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com> wrote:
The situation is totally hopeless. President is a politician and he has to follow the script. This is not a world before the second world war. Every word is uttered, is scrutinized by our liberal pundits. They would find fault with the infidel societies. The societies are unjust and particularly xenophobic to only one religion? And, the show will go on until Kalasnikovs start ruling the towns and pundits would be on their knees.
-SD

On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Msa40 <msa40@aol.com> wrote:
 
Just a while ago, the French President told his nation that what has happened in his country just
two days ago was not an Islamic act. Islam is as pure as the milk in the cow's udder!!
 
 
Mohammad Asghar
 
 
 
 
 
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Sent: Fri, Jan 9, 2015 11:57 am
Subject: RE: Egypt's President Sisi: A Titan For Freedom in the Islamic World Calls for Reformation of Islam.

I think Sisi is a great pretender---an Islamic Taqiyya tactician per excellence.
 
The slight black spot on his forehead could be a done-up job just to please the 'moderates'. I do not recall seeing this black spot in other pictures that show him in military garb.
 
It is  easier to fight the islamist terrorists who are honest and cool--I mean cool murderes, because they enforce Quran in toto.
 
It is much difficult to fight a taqiyya tactician like Sisi. I think his pretensions are to be in the nek najar of the Western aid donors--now that there is a clear sign that the West, especially in Germany, Holland and France a grass root movement is slowly taking shape. This movement, though embryonic at this moment,  will soon spread to the other parts of Europe. Fed up with the 'moderate' Muslims, a large segment of these population will demand the deportation, those who are deportable,  of these 'moderates' and to impose complete ban on further Islamic immigration.
 
There is a large population of Egyptian in many European countries. Sisi is aware of the contribution of remittances from these Egyptians.
 
I think the next grass root movement against Islam will start in the US; the Americans are fed up with the ghan-ghan of another takiyya tactician per excellence--Hussein Barack Obama.
 
AK
 
 

 

To: poplu@hotmail.com; skmirza.mirza@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Egypt's President Sisi: A Titan For Freedom in the Islamic World Calls for Reformation of Islam.
From: msa40@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2015 13:45:23 -0500

 
I can see a slightly black mark on the forehead of Gen. Sisi. It is gracing his forehead due to the
daily five Salat he offers to Allah. On the Day of Judgment, if it occurs at all, this mark would
help Allah recognize him as a good and true Muslim and then send him to heaven so that he can
screw an unlimited number of ever-virgin Hurs and perpetually fresh and young boys!
 
Yes, Gen. Sisi is a Titan for those Muslims, who would want to enter heaven with him in their
next life!
 
 
 
Mohammad Asghar
 
 
 
 
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Sent: Fri, Jan 9, 2015 4:13 am
Subject: RE: Egypt's President Sisi: A Titan For Freedom in the Islamic World Calls for Reformation of Islam.

Egypt's Al-Sisi Wants An Islamic 'Revolution' – The Good Kind

OPINION
Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi delivers a statement following a meeting with French President Francois Hollande at the Elysee Palace in Paris, November 26, 2014. REUTERS/Philippe Wojazer   

Egypt's Al-Sisi Wants An Islamic 'Revolution' – The Good Kind

12:06 PM 01/08/2015
 
All the condolences and hand-wringing of world leaders about yesterday's attack on the French satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo will not put a dent in the problem of radical Islam.
A voice of moderation from a major Islamic leader, though, might make a difference. Yet the West almost entirely ignored one of the most remarkable speeches coming out of the Middle East in memory. On New Year's Day, Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi gave an address at Al-Azhar, the oldest and most prestigious religious school of the Sunni world. He said:
"It's inconceivable that the thinking that we hold most sacred should cause the entire umma (multinational community of Muslim believers) to be a source of anxiety, danger, killing and destruction for the rest of the world. Impossible! That thinking – I am not saying 'religion' but 'thinking' – that corpus of texts and ideas that we have sacralized over the years, to the point that departing from them has become almost impossible, is antagonizing the entire world. It's antagonizing the entire world!
"Is it possible that 1.6 billion [Muslims] should want to kill the rest of the world's inhabitants – that is 7 billion—so that they themselves may live? Impossible! … I say and repeat again that we are in need of a religious revolution. You, imams, are responsible before Allah. The entire world, I say it again, the entire world is waiting for your next move… because this umma is being torn, it is being destroyed, it is being lost – and it is being lost by our own hands."
Sisi realizes that the specter of Islamism will not be diminished by political action or suppression – including by Egypt's own forces. Ideology must be matched by ideology; a different Islam needs to be preached and taught in tens of thousands of mosques and madrassas – including the small ones, not just the large ones that welcome camera crews.
Sisi's speech was a rare inversion of truth-to-power. Sisi used his political power to coerce the imams (whose funding comes from the state) to change their rhetoric. More importantly, he appealed to their sense of truth about their own religious convictions. Have they not made a mockery of their faith? When billions of people around the globe think of Islam, do they think "the religion of peace," or do they think of attacks on chocolate shops in Sydney; beheaded Christian children in Iraq; and schoolgirls sold as sex slaves in Nigeria? Only a global chorus of Muslim voices saying, "Not in our names, and not in the Name of Allah!" will counter the gruesome images non-Muslims see.
Why did the West completely ignore what should have been a welcome call for a religious revolution? No doubt many have reservations – as they should – about someone whose rise to power was hardly an exercise in Jeffersonian democracy.
But they miss the point. More significant than the speaker's identity was what he understood about the receptivity of his audience. Sisi believed that the imams would "get it." He felt that enough citizens in the oldest and most populous state in the Muslim Middle East care about what the rest of the world thinks, and are unhappy that their faith is generally reviled and detested. Islam could change its image, but only after a reconstruction – a revolution, as Sisi called it – that would have to come from the clergy.

 http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/08/egypts-al-sisi-wants-an-islamic-revolution-the-good-kind/

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 20:53:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Egypt's President Sisi: A Titan For Freedom in the Islamic World Calls for Reformation of Islam.
From: skmirza.mirza@gmail.com
To: msa40@aol.com

Mr. Asghar,

Thanks for your highly correct and appropriate interpretation of President Sisi's speech about Tyrannical Islamic scriptures in the so called holy Koran. Most unfortunate things are: not even 5% muslims read koran to understand the scriptures; rather they read it only to get sawab to enter lustrous heaven. Muslims read Koran as tontor Montor, or abra ka dabra and say each other "how sweet and how holy Koran is...". Truly, Koran is full of hatreds and the word 'love' does not exists at all. That is why President Sisi asked muslim world to dump it for ever to bring real peace in the whole world. By the way, today's jihadi action in France has more justified for the fear and skepticism of President Sisi, and the world must identify Islam as the most dangerous ideology and must deal accordingly.


SKM


 
On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Msa40 <msa40@aol.com> wrote:
 
Interpretation of what Sisi has said:
 
What the Quran says is not applicable today and as such, it should be dumped forever!
 
 
 
Mohammad Asghar
 
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Syed Mirza <skmirza.mirza@gmail.com>
farukhchowdhury <farukhchowdhury@gmail.com>; naushad49 <naushad49@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Jan 6, 2015 5:25 pm
Subject: Egypt's President Sisi: A Titan For Freedom in the Islamic World Calls for Reformation of Islam.




Egypt's President Sisi: Islamic "Thinking' Is 'Antagonizing the Entire World"


At last, at least one brave and honest Muslim leader spoken the real truth about Islam which we have never heard before from any Muslim leader from the entire world. So far, we only heard some Islamic Taqqiyya and utter lies about Islamic deceptions.
President Sisi said: "Is it possible that 1.6 billion people [Muslims] should want to kill the rest of the world's inhabitants—that is 7 billion—so that they themselves may live? Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi gave an extraordinary, groundbreaking speech on Islam on New Year's day. Sisi said that the "corpus of [Islamic] texts and ideas that we have sacralized over the years" are  "antagonizing the entire world"; that it is not "possible that 1.6 billion people [reference to the world's Muslims] should want to kill the rest of the world's inhabitants…."
 


Thanks.


Syed K. Mirza


 

 
 





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Posted by: Syed Mirza <Skmirza.mirza@gmail.com>


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