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Saturday, May 12, 2012

[ALOCHONA] To US Aid Recipients

TOP  US  AID  RECIPIENTS:
.
1. Afghanistan:  $ 11.5 billion a year or 72% of 2010 GDP
2. Pakistan      : $ 2.85 billion a year or 1.6% of 2010 GDP
3. Israel:             $ 2.8 billion a year or 1.3% of GDP
4. Iraq:               $  2 billion a year or 2.6% of GDP
5. Egypt:            $ 1.4 billion a year or 0.8% of GDP

* 4 out of 5 top US Aid Recipients are Moslim Countries. 
* Besides 7 out of 44 Moslim Countries all live off Charity of US Aid and Loans but USA is the most hated country of crazy Moslims according to Surveys and Polls taken in Moslim Countries. .
* 8 out of 25 top US Aid Recipients are Moslim Countries and the 9th is Palestine Government.
* 44 out of 193 Countries are Moslim. 







[ALOCHONA] Gallup poll:Hasina trusted by 77 percent



Hasina trusted by 77 percent

Gallup poll survey of 2011 ranks her 7th among Asian leaders



Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina has 77 percent approval rating, according to a Gallup poll. Washington-based Gallup, renowned for predicting US election results and conducting the US presidents' approval ratings, ranked Sheikh Hasina seventh in its survey conducted in 21 countries of Asia and the Pacific Rim in 2011.

Indian premier Manmohan Singh ranked 11th with 59 percent support while only 20 percent Pakistani people approved of their president making him dead last in the region.Hasina received higher approval than her counterparts in Australia, New Zealand and Japan.

The survey report, released on Friday, found that just about a fifth of the people (19 percent) disapproved of Hasina and four percent declined to answer.The report, however, did not elaborate on the Bangladesh situation and why it is among the top 10 in Asia despite political volatility, soaring food and fuel prices, and chronic utility crises, including severe electricity and gas shortages.

About India, it said recent government corruption scandals and economic troubles most probably tarnished the image of Manmohan Singh, who has seen a slight dip in his approval rating.

"Pakistanis have never placed much confidence in President Asif Ali Zardari's leadership; throughout his tenure, the country has grappled with terrorism, challenging relations with the US and a struggling economy," said the report.

It said, "Economic stability and peace dividends may help explain some of the relatively high approval that leaders of Laos, Cambodia and Sri Lanka get from their constituents."

In contrast, political discord, internal strife, and geo-political complexities likely affected approval ratings for leaders in Hong Kong, Nepal and Pakistan.The report said Laotians, Cambodians and Sri Lankans were most likely to express support for their leaders.

Majorities in more than half of the countries surveyed in the Gallup poll approved of their chief executives, with leaders in Southeast and South Asia earning some of the highest marks in the region.However, the survey found that more leaders in Asia lost support between 2011 and 2010.It showed New Zealand Prime Minister John Key ranked ninth with an approval rating of 72 percent while Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard came 14th with 45 percent and Japan's Yoshihiko Noda ranked 15th with 44 percent.

The Gallup surveys were based on face-to-face and telephone interviews with approximately 1,000 adults, aged 15 and older, between April 5 and December 4, 2011, according to the firm.

Gallup polls are best known for their accuracy in predicting the outcome of United States presidential elections. The company has four divisions: Gallup Poll, Gallup Consulting, Gallup University and Gallup Press.

http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=233931

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[Disclaimer: ALOCHONA Management is not liable for information contained in this message. The author takes full responsibility.]
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Re: [mukto-mona] Re: `Killing Kafir' by Syed Kamran Mirza



1. Answers to the questions asked by Q. Rahman are straightforward and a civilized answer to each of the questions would be an absolute NO.
 
2. Kamran Mirza's questions are "tricky" and "flawed". The questions are tricky because a staunch believer would find them difficult as well as troublesome. The questions are flawed as they are based on the scientifically untenable assumption of an omnipotent, omniscient, and compassionate God. God is a mythological, religious, metaphysical, or philosophical construct. Depending on the basis or premise of the construction, the nature of God varies. The construct also varies depending on time and place of construction. Time and place is all encompassing covering many things including socio-economic conidions prevailing at the particular time-space coordinates. The merit of a religion depends on to what extent the preacher has understood the past and the process of it's historical development up to his own time. The merit of the religion also depends greatly on how far into the future the preacher can see. Having said that, for an analytical free thinking man the questions asked by Mirza become irrelevant.
 
3. I am happy that Mirza has also, among other belief systems, mentioned the Kurukshetra battle where Krishna advises Arjuna to kill his enemies who happen to be his cousins and other close relatives. There are two extreme views about Yudhisthira--- Dharmaputra vs. a villain. Seen as a historical piece, Krishna's advice was political and sectarian. In the civilized modern world this teaching of the epic Mahabharata can be "salvaged" only by giving it a nice "twist" viz., it teaches us to fight against evils. This means that advice to kill is symbolic. A deeper meaning that is offered refers to the concept of illusion vs. the supreme God who is the ultimate reality. Therefore, Arjuna, shake off all the illusion and strike. You will achieve me. 
 
4. I have read the responses of Rahman who to me is a "open-minded believer." He does not believe in various sects among the Muslims. The logical conclusion can then be drawn that he does not support the Saudi action of shutting down the Shiite mosques in the Kingdom. I am sure he also does not support the Saudi policy of not allowing a person to carry a non-Islamic religious scripture to Mecca. I am sure he seeks much more freedom for women than is currently being allowed in the Kingdom.   

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: `Killing Kafir' by Syed Kamran Mirza

 
Are you saying those who killed our brothers and raped our sisters during 1971 should be entertained with dinner invitations? Are you saying over 17 people who were put to death in the US for murder and related crimes (This year until now) should go free? Are we talking about giving warm meals to Nazis who killed over 20 million people during world war ll?

Maybe this is news to "Rainbow coalition" or "Tree hugging community" but in REAL WORLD even very peaceful communities have to establish fairness and justice (Which may include killing criminals).

Maybe Syedjada ( Kamran Mirza) was trying to convince his "Bubblegum troopers" to by this very immature comments and it would be ONLY accepted by those who live in "Rainbow communities" in comic books.

God NEVER asked anyone to kill an innocent soul. In Islam it says if someone saved an innocent soul as if he/she saved humankind. [ Source: Al Qur'an 5:32 ].

And throughout the Qur'an the message has been CONSISTENT. Killing is ONLY allowed to punish criminals or in self defense.

As simple as that. I have all the respect and compassion for those who do not support killing of another human but in real world throughout history says this sort of  wish lists do not work in our world.

Neither do I support killing of innocent people. Killing can ONLY be justified if it saves innocent lives. Even when a wild tiger kills human being, governments of the world allows to kill that tiger.  

God is FREE of all needs for the world. He does not depend on our actions!!

As per Islam IF anyone kills or tortures another innocent human being, he/she only tortured his/her own souls. Without "Due process" NO type of killings are approved by Islam either. If someone claims otherwise, he/she does not know what he/she is talking about.


Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, May 10, 2012 5:09 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: `Killing Kafir' by Syed Kamran Mirza

 
Allah or any other deity is nothing more than a tribal god.  Being tribal, no god is almighty.  Killing is and was necessary for the survival of the one who kills.  If you are a carnivore, you kill animals; if you are a herbivore, you kill the plants.  You may or may not need to invoke the name of god to justify your deed, depending on your faith or lack of it.  With faith, however, you are destined to fool's heaven.

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Masthan <masthangm@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
learn quran and hadees properly, as you mentioned out of context, your thinking is limited to the circle.

may almighty Allah show you the right path.

regards
Masthan

--- In mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com, "Alternatif2000" wrote:
>
> `Killing Kafir' by Syed Kamran Mirza - www.ezboard.com
>
> Killing Kafir
>
> Syed Kamran Mirza
>
> In the theological dogmas of Islam there are plenty of unanswered questions
> to which most apologists play same old game of sidetracking and putting lame
> excuse to the ?out of context?, or ?faulty Quranic translations?. Among
> them, I like to discuss one question about which I have been
> asking/searching the truth for long time, but till today nobody could give
> me satisfactory answer. This is the question of ?killing/slaying? human
> being by another human being by the order of Almighty God! Several years
> back when I read Holy Quran from beginning to end, I was totally dismayed
> when I found Allah telling/advocating to ?kill? another human being by
> numerous Ayats. I could not conceive this idea of insisting by Allah to kill
> somebody. How come? Question which bothered me most is why an
> omnipotent/almighty God will ask for killing human being? Who knows, may be
> this advice by Allah to ?kill Kaffirs? is working as the main
> fuel/ingredients behind the very spirit of Islamic Jihad?helping create more
> and more Osama Bin laden and other potential terrorists?
>
> My father used to read Quran twice a day (after Fazr and before Magreb) with
> so much devotion until his death. One day I asked him if he (my father)
> understand what he was reciting with such a melody and devotions. My father?
> s answer was negative. My father did not understand a single word of what he
> was reciting daily. Now I can count how many thousands of times he uttered
> the word ?killing?, of course, with sweet melody. We can even count how many
> trillion trillion times this word of ?killing? is being uttered by devout
> Muslims throughout the whole world.
>
> Let me cite an example to illustrate this better: Say I am the owner of a
> flock of 100 Cattle. These hundred Cattle are mine, I am the sole owner, and
> by virtue/authority of my ownership, I have every right to do, what ever I
> want to do with these 100 Cattle. Now, if in the course of time, I find that
> some Cattle have become very destructive and wicked up to a degree that
> these Cattle are out of control. Then, I have two choices in front of me to
> handle these wicked Cattle: (a) tell other good and docile Cattle to kill
> those wicked and unruly Cattle by their sharp horns, or (b) because of my
> authority, I sell them or killed (Zabai kare khaeyya felba) those cattle and
> invite friends to a feast. Quite obviously, I will choose (b), and never
> will advocate poor Cattle to kill those wicked Cattle, right? But here in
> the God business of correcting wicked people, I really do not find any logic
> why Omnipotent God should ask human (who are less than Cattle to God) to
> kill other wicked humans. This problem of disobedient by some humans is so
> little problem for an Omnipotent/almighty Allah that, it should take only a
> wishful thinking for Him to correct all Kaffirs. Does any reader see any
> logic to it? So far, I could not get any logical/convincing answer from any
> apologists to this very dynamic question.
>
> I cannot believe that, God can really ask human being to kill/slay another
> human being! The center of my question is not the word ?killing,? but WHO
> actually is asking for ?Killing.? This ?WHO? is nobody but
> OMNIPOTENT/ALMIGHTY GOD. Is Allah telling/advocating to ?kill? another human
> being by numerous Qur?anic Ayats? I could not conceive this idea that Allah
> is insisting his creation to kill somebody who is also his creation.
> Question that bothered me the most is why an Omnipotent/Almighty and
> Merciful God will ask for killing human being. Why then He is called a
> Merciful? Omnipotent God is not like human being of flesh and blood that He
> will take revenge through others. Even the mother of a serial killer will
> not ask others to kill her son, rather she will ask for forgiveness. Is
> Almighty God crueler or weaker than the mother of a serial killer?
>
> Of course, if these killing orders (i.e., Ayats like: 9:5, 2.191, 5.33.or
> 2.193) have had come from Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself then, I would not
> ask this question. Because, Prophet Muhammad was also a human being of flesh
> and blood, and in need, he also can ask for necessary killings. Apologist?s
> example/comparisons with history of mankind --killing by American Civil War,
> battle of Kurukhetra or Hitler, Yahya Khan, Tikka Khan, Winston Churchill,
> etc., would fit here very well. Because, these are simply earthly (parthive)
> happenings and humans are not omnipotent/almighty by any standard. Human
> cannot achieve something simply by wishful thinking like an Omnipotent God.
> But God of course can achieve something simply by His wish. As we are told
> in Quran that, ?Of course if Allah (swt) wills He can create anything just
> by saying ?Qun? (Be) and it exists. Likewise Allah (swt) can destroy at
> will.? If we are to believe the text of preceding quotation by Maoulanas
> then we cannot find any validity of asking by God to kill anybody. God
> Himself can kill them by His killer Angel AZRAEL. Or, Omnipotent God simply
> can correct every anomaly by His wishes, period. He should not need anybody?
> s help.
>
> Another new question has generated by the Qur?anic Ayat quoted by most
> Apologists. That is, ?Let there be no compulsion in religion? (Quran-2:
> 256). This Ayat is used repeatedly by all apologists like a broken record to
> claim Islam?s tolerance to others, although, there are hundreds of Qur?anic
> Ayats and Sahih hadiths (which apologists hardly disclose) which prove
> otherwise. My humble questions here to all apologists are: What is the
> punishment of an apostate as per Islamic Sharia? Isn?t the punishment of an
> apostate is death by stoning? Why in Saudi Arabia all other religious
> activities except Islam are completely prohibited? Why very recently Saudi
> Government has closed Shiite Mosque in Saudi Arabia? Why then early
> propagators of Islam had to fight so many bloody battles both defensively
> and offensively?
>
> What is the difference between the code of King Hammurabi of Mesopotamia
> (2900 B.C): Killing for revenge, i. e., ?life for life, hand for hand, eye
> for eye, ears for ears, tooth for tooth and wounds equal for equal?, and the
> Allah?s Guidance of Qur?anic Ayat: 5:45, i.e. ?life for life, hand for hand,
> eye for eye, ear for ear, tooth for tooth and wounds equal for equal.? Do we
> see any similarities between the judgment of King Hammurabi (a human), and
> Omnipotent Allah? Here in this decree of judgement, who probably copied from
> whom?
>
> Most important and mysterious questions for us to ponder are: Why Muhammad
> (pbuh), the prophet of God, needed to insist/ask people to fight/kill fellow
> people violently? And why did he lure Islamic believers that they will get
> Jannat el-Ferdous if they kill kaffirs? Why on the other hand, another
> Prophet of the same God Jesus Christ said, ?He who live by the sword will
> die by the sword? or ?If you get slapped on your right cheek then give your
> left cheek for the another slap.? Why Jesus asked people to conquer the
> hearts of enemies by their love? Why did Mahatma Gandhi asked people not to
> attack/kill the enemies but to tolerate all tortures? Was Gandhi or Jesus a
> better person than the omnipotent who goes by the name Rahman-ur-Rahim (Kind
> and forgiving)?
>
> As a child, we were told by the clerics back home that Almighty Allah has
> 100 names. The two names show up side-by-side in the book Niam-ul-Qur?an (By
> Moulvi Mohammad Shamsul Huda) page 20. One of the names is Ya-Gaffaru (Oh,
> forgiver!). The other name mentioned next to it is Ya-Kah-haru (Oh, big
> punisher). The Mullahs of the world should know better that the Almighty
> couldn?t be both all at the same time. Whether we like it or not, Jesus
> seems to have opted for the forgiving part of Allah, whereas, our
> Payare-Nabi Mustafa Karim (pbuh) had shown his proclivity to mete out
> punishment and thus opting for the title Kah-haru. No wonder so many
> bystanders Arab had to be murdered in the broad daylight because they had
> their nagging doubts about the divinity of Muhammad (pbuh).
>
> The bottom line in this ongoing debate is the following: It would be quite
> unjust for the CREATOR to approve killing of his creations by his own
> creation. If He thinks that some creations are becoming unruly, and are
> deviating from the Seerut-al-Mustaquim, then, why can?t He come down from
> his Arash to this lowly place call Arda (Earth) and do the killing Himself?
> He most certainly has ever-ready Azrael under His arm. But could it be that
> poor Azrael is too tired doing his job from the time immemorial! In that
> case, Allah is very wise to tell us that we men should kill another fellow
> human being because in His infinite wisdom He thought we are the right
> persons for this job. What a cruel joke this Almighty is playing on us!
>






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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [KHABOR] RE: [mukto-mona] Fw: [Alapon] Wall Street Journal article--my comment-- a religion as state ideology does not harm development.



Does this 'wise man' Mr. Hannan know that Buddhism is a religion without God?  I am sure his mind has blanked out by continuous hitting of the forehead on ground.  A black crescent of faith might have caused blockade in blood circulation in the brain.

On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 11:44 PM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

My question to Mr. Hannan is this - show me a single country in the world that has implemented the (Islamic) system you are talking about, and has been able to attain unabated human development to ascend to the top of the economic ladder?

I have no clue as to what your system is as you have used some strange words in some language that I do not understand. You did not show me an example. I am assuming the answer to my question to you is NO.  

I need result, Mr. Hannan, not hypothesis. As far as I know - no Islamic system (or any other religious system for that matter) has achieved anything that good on this earth so that others should follow them. I do not know who in their right mindset will want to implement reins of ancient Islamic Caliphate in this day and age. These are just wishes of some adamant religious radicals without valid grounds. Everything to them is faith-based. They do not need any proof or validity for their claims. I am puzzled by the fact that so many intelligent educated people attain such a state of mind and cannot get out of it. Or, may be – they are just puppets playing along what their masters are asking them to do or say. It's a tragedy of humankind. You have to excuse me for saying these. I am saying these harsh words out of my true compassion for my fellow human-beings.

Jiten Roy

 
--- On Fri, 5/11/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [KHABOR] RE: [mukto-mona] Fw: [Alapon] Wall Street Journal article--my comment-- a religion as state ideology does not harm development.
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, May 11, 2012, 10:16 PM


 
Hannan is totally ignorant of history.  The Abbasid dynasty came to power by assassinating the Umayyads en mass on a dinner table, perpetrated it's rule by the support of the Mutazillas who did not believe that the holy Quran was the uncreated word of God etc.  If this is the example of a theocratic regime, all atheists would support such administrations.  Talking about the Ashoke and the Mughals; Ashoke was himself converted to Buddhism though the creed did not crystallize as a religion till then and the Mughals were such devout believers that none of them circumcised and the most famous of them even tried to found a new religion.  Aurangzeb tried to show his adherence to Islam bringing about the collapse of  the dynasty.

On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 6:34 AM, S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com> wrote:
 

Munawar sahib and others,

Please read again. I said "A proper Islamic state is expected to do  well in development because it produces moral persons, not secular materialists."

Islam also highlights development in the verse Rabbana Atina Fiddunia Hasanatan ------------"Islam has encouraged work and decried giving up the world or begging.

 

Shah Abdul Hannan

 


From: khabor@yahoogroups.com [mailto:khabor@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ali Manwar
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 6:22 PM
To: khabor@yahoogroups.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [KHABOR] RE: [mukto-mona] Fw: [Alapon] Wall Street Journal article--my comment-- a religion as state ideology does not harm development.

 

 

Dear Mr. Hannan: You did not prove that it was the religion that was the cause of development. So, what is the point?

 

Ali Manwar, PhD

Maryland

 

From: S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 7:31 AM
Subject: [KHABOR] RE: [mukto-mona] Fw: [Alapon] Wall Street Journal article--my comment-- a religion as state ideology does not harm development.

 

Dear Sirs,

Please see my short response to the letter below. If the state takes a religion as its ideology, it does not harm development. Abbasid Khilafat had Islam as the basis of the state. So is the case of Mughals in India . Ashoke's rule in India had Buddhism, Israel has Judaism. All these states reached high stage of development and religious ideology did not harm development.

Development is the function of good leaders, good laws and good governance, state ideology help this only. A proper Islamic state is expected to do  well in development because it produces moral persons, not secular materialists.

Shah Abdul Hannan

 

 

From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jiten Roy
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 5:20 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: [Alapon] Wall Street Journal article

 

 

Encouraging news indeed!

Advanced and prosperous countries do not mix religion and politics. This is not just a statement; the truth is right in front of our eyes. That's the key to the success of the advanced countries. Government has no business to deal with any religion. Let religion take its course.

Whatever progress Bangladesh has made under the present government is due to whatever secular policies they have implemented, and we see the results right away. This should be the encouragement for the government to adopt more secular policies. Country's progress comes from the progress of the individual citizen, irrespective of religious affiliation. When government starts to promote a particular religion over the others, it breaks the cycle of progress in other religious groups, which is bound to degrade the overall progress of the country. Let's learn from history, and work together towards the progress and prosperity of all citizens by transforming Bangladesh into a true secular country, as opposed to making it a model Islamic country. There is no future for any Islamic or Hindu or Christian country in the world. These are vacuous aspirations only - nothing to do with reality.

Jiten Roy

 



--- On Wed, 5/9/12, Muhammad Ali <man1k195709@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Muhammad Ali <man1k195709@yahoo.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Fw: [Alapon] Wall Street Journal article
To:
Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2012, 5:36 PM

 

 

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: modasser khosseine <bolonhome@hotmail.com>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 9:32 PM
Subject: [Alapon] Wall Street Journal article

 

 


 

 
 

Wall Street Journal article

Bangladesh Is South Asia 's Standard-Bearer

The former 'basket case' is more moderate on religion and more pragmatic on development than its peers.

 

Despite its 160-million strong population, Bangladesh can find it hard to elbow its way onto the global stage. It's in an area where India is cast in the lead as the dominant economy, Pakistan plays the intermittent villain, and Sri Lanka and Nepal feature in cameos as countries with uncertain futures. Yet when U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton touches down in Dhaka Saturday—the highest ranking American official to visit in nearly a decade—she'll encounter a country that can teach a lesson or two to all other regional actors.

The world's third-most populous Muslim-majority country stands out as a model of moderation. Unlike in virtually every other country in the Muslim world, Islamists in Bangladesh are on the defensive. Seven people, including high profile leaders of the Jamaat-e-Islami, South Asia's most powerful Islamist group, face war crimes charges for their role in slaughtering Bangladeshi patriots, Muslim and Hindu alike, during the country's 1971 war of independence against Pakistan .

Current Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina Wazed's father, Sheikh Mujibur Rahman (1920-75) led that struggle, which claimed 3 million lives according to the Bangladesh government. The trial reveals the government's willingness to deal with one of the most painful episodes in the young nation's history. It also shows its refusal to allow Islamists to label the regime as "anti-Islam" for pursuing them, a form of blackmail that often obstructs justice in other places.

In a similar vein, Bangladesh can boast one of Asia 's best records of fighting Islamist terrorism. The South Asia Terrorism Portal estimates that only nine people have lost their lives since Ms. Hasina swept to power at the end of 2008. In the four years before that, terrorists claimed 56 lives at home, while the Bangladeshi terrorist group Harkat-ul-Jihad al-Islami (or HuJi-B) carried out high-profile terrorist strikes in India .

Much of Bangladesh 's success in confronting the most intolerant elements within its own society comes from crafting an inclusive national narrative. Unlike Pakistan , Bangladesh does not define itself by faith alone. Most Bangladeshis see no contradiction between being proud Muslims and proud Bengalis. This self-confidence gives the country the ability, which some other Muslim societies lack, to push back against extremism.

Enlarge Image

 

 

EPA

Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina Wazed.

Then there's the down-to-earth pragmatism present in Dhaka 's approach to development. Over the past five years, the economy has expanded on an average of 6% per year. Unlike India , which is hobbled by socialist-era labor laws that interfere with hiring and firing, Bangladesh has built a world-class apparel industry that employs more than 3.5 million people and supplies global brands like H&M, Walmart and Tommy Hilfiger. Thanks to this, the country is already the world's second largest exporter of readymade garments after China . If it plays its cards right, Bangladesh , more than any other South Asian nation, could attract a fresh wave of labor-intensive manufacturing looking for cheaper alternatives to China . Goldman Sachs lists Bangladesh among its "Next 11," countries that have the potential to become major economies.

And after years of tensions with its bigger neighbor, Bangladesh is now being practical and seeking to normalize ties with India . The two countries have already settled long festering territorial disputes and opened up trade. A landmark transit agreement would place Bangladesh at the heart of a potentially dynamic growth corridor encompassing northeastern India and a newly democratizing Burma . This is currently being stymied by Indian politician Mamata Banerjee, who as chief minister of the West Bengal state that borders Bangladesh opposes an allied water-sharing agreement with Dhaka .

Still, Dhaka and New Delhi are pushing for this agreement and it could succeed, possibly ushering in a new peace dividend in the region. At any rate, Dhaka's pragmatism in its foreign relations stands in contrast to India, which can't always suppress its preachy rhetoric of nonalignment (toward the West), as well as Pakistan, which often sputters in a sea of Islamic fundamentalism and knee-jerk opposition to India.

That said, Bangladesh is hardly free of problems. Ms. Hasina and her chief opponent, the Bangladesh Nationalist Party's Khaleda Zia, have created a poisonous zero-sum politics, which has come to the fore again in recent days. The BNP is up in arms at the disappearance of one of its leaders last month and they blame Ms. Hasina's ruling party. They have shut down the country with crippling national strikes four times in the past month.

No one knows how the BNP official in question disappeared, though, and a string of similar disappearances reflect a deteriorating law and order situation. Either law enforcement is engaged in extra-judicial actions, or vigilantes can roam free with impunity. Neither is encouraging.

Meanwhile, the Islamist threat has been reduced but not eliminated. The BNP remains at best ambivalent and at worst actively sympathetic toward Islamist forces similar to those that have helped drag Pakistan in a downward spiral. And though Bangladesh 's army deserves some credit for keeping its distance from politics since late 2008, it's by no means certain that the country's latest experiment with democracy, barely three and a half years old, will last. The military first seized power in 1975, and has done so repeatedly since.

But for now, these worries can take a back seat. This weekend, a country once dismissed by former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger as a basket case, gets to show one of his successors how wrong it has proven him.

Mr. Dhume is a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington, and a columnist for WSJ.com. Follow him on Twitter @dhume01

 

 





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Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: [KHABOR] 'Fire of Hell' -Madrasa teacher held for torture



Overnight closing of madrasahs will create a chaotic situation. But they should be phased out. Yes in the short run the system has to be modernized as much as possible. Your belief that  only madrasahs can prepare one both for this world and the next as well does not seem to be realistic. The Dweeniyat course taught in mainstream schools can equally serve the purpose. Moreover schools also offer Arabic and Urdu. I had to take Sanskrit. I think colleges also offer these courses. Universities have such departments too. Along with Islamic Studies universities may offer Comparative Religious Studies also. The bottom line is that the mainstream education system is good enough to prepare a graduate both for this world and the after world. 
The achievement of the goal of phasing out the madrasah education system will need money, political determination, and courage. The quicker, the better for the country. The fund that we are getting from outside sources can better be used for establishing more job oriented technical schools, not for producing illiterate, poor, and unproductive mollahs. Fanaticism thrives on illiteracy and poverty. Also an idle brain is a devil's workshop. We need people who are employable. 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2012, at 12:02 PM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

 

it is a good thing that, she is repentant. However I feel she should receive some punishment and "Punishment" should include some training about being a teacher. It is obvious this lady does not have ANY training at all. If you dig deep you will find similar stories all over Bangladesh and covering people of all faiths.

As I stated earlier, instead of banning madrassas, we need to invest more into the system, so people who come out of it will be a complete human being with skills for this world and "Hereafter" (Talking about religious education here). In this day of information, it is quite easy for us to access scriptures of Islam and share them to student. We need not to be caged in teaching techniques of last century.

If our government take up such a project, it will be a true win-win initiative. We are going to have better skilled work force, tolerant Muslim scholars and better teachers.

No matter what is proposed by anyone, religion plays a big part in people of our sub-continent. So instead of debating about stuff we cannot apply in our country (If you want to force people not to teach religion!!), we ought to improve our existing system and benefit from it.

My two cents...


Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, May 10, 2012 4:27 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: [KHABOR] 'Fire of Hell' -Madrasa teacher held for torture

 
She is repentant. No doubt she still deserves punishment for what she has done to the innocent kids. But don't you pity her? Is she herself not a victim of our socio-economic condition? More specifically, is she not a victim of religious fanaticism? A victim herself has victimized fourteen innocent kids! Along with punishment she also needs therapy and correction. 
Think about those social miscreants who make money by smuggling needy girls or helpless girls of needy families out of the country. I am curious to know  kind of punishment they get. 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 8, 2012, at 3:20 PM, Muhammad Ali <man1k195709@yahoo.com> wrote:


----- Forwarded Message -----
From: SyedAslam <Syed.Aslam3@gmail.com>
To: Khobor <khabor@yahoogroups.com>; notun Bangladesh <notun_bangladesh@yahoogroups.com>; chottala@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 4:15 PM
Subject: [KHABOR] 'Fire of Hell' -Madrasa teacher held for torture

 

'Fire of Hell'

Madrasa teacher held for torture


মাদ্রাসার ১৪ শিক্ষার্থীকে গরম খুন্তির ছেঁকা দেন শিক্ষিকা জেসমিন আক্তার

খুন্তির ছেঁকা দেওয়া শিক্ষিকা গ্রেপ্তার নিজস্ব প্রতিবেদক১৪ শিক্ষার্থীকে খুন্তির ছেঁকা দেওয়ার ঘটনায় অভিযুক্ত মাদ্রাসাশিক্ষিকা জেসমিন আক্তারকে (৩৮) অবশেষে গ্রেপ্তার করতে পেরেছে পুলিশ। ধরা পড়ার পর জেসমিন আক্তার অনুশোচনার স্বরে পুলিশকে বলেছেন, এই কাজ করা তাঁর ঠিক হয়নি। রাগের মাথায় তিনি এ ঘটনা ঘটিয়েছেন।
জেসমিন আক্তারকে ব্যাপক জিজ্ঞাসাবাদের জন্য সাত দিনের রিমান্ড চেয়ে গতকাল মঙ্গলবার দুপুরে আদালতে পাঠায় পুলিশ। তবে আদালত রিমান্ড মঞ্জুর না করে কারাগারে পাঠিয়ে দেন বলে জানিয়েছেন মামলার তদন্ত কর্মকর্তা কদমতলী থানার সাব-ইন্সপেক্টর শাকের মোহাম্মদ জুবায়ের।
পুলিশ ও পারিবারিক সূত্র জানায়, পূর্ব নামা শ্যামপুরের 'তালিমুল কোরআন মাদ্রাসা' ১০ দিন বন্ধ থাকার পর খোলা হলে গত ১ মে ১৪ জন শিশু ছাত্রী মাদ্রাসায় হাজির হয়। এ সময় মাদ্রাসার শিক্ষিকা জেসমিন আক্তার উপস্থিত ছাত্রীদের জিজ্ঞাসা করেন, ছুটি থাকা অবস্থায় ছাত্রীরা সবাই নামাজ আদায় করেছে কি না? উত্তরে ছাত্রীরা বলে, তাদের দুই-এক ওয়াক্ত নামাজ কাজা হয়েছে। জেসমিন আক্তার উত্তেজিত হয়ে ছাত্রীদের বলেন, 'আজ তোমাদের এমন শিক্ষা দেব যে আর জীবনে নামাজ কাজা করবে না।' তিনি গৃহকর্মী জান্নাতকে (১০) রান্নাঘরে খুন্তি গরম করতে বলেন। এরপর উপস�


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Re: [KHABOR] RE: [mukto-mona] Fw: [Alapon] Wall Street Journal article--my comment-- a religion as state ideology does not harm development.



They do not need any proof or validity for their claims. I am puzzled by the fact that so many intelligent educated people attain such a state of mind and cannot get out of it. Or, may be – they are just puppets playing along what their masters are asking them to do or say


>>>>>>>>> As far as 'Proof" is concern, I have given MANY such proofs with sources here in this forum about Islam. But those who do not want to change their mind set do not see those as such.

However, you have a point here. As most "Islamic" nations were colonies not too long ago, it is hard to find a "Perfect" example of the Islamic state we talk about. When some of us (Those who have faith in Islam) talk about good exemplary Islamic state we have to go back few hundred years.

I would submit to you, there are NO perfect states in the whole world!!

NONE!

I would ask you to name ONE country which you feel is "Perfect", I'll discuss it for you
. About one hundred years ago our forefathers thought socialist/communist system was the answer to all of our problems. At the end of his life famous Aroj Ali Matubbar argued the same for communist system. Little he knew, the whole system was going to fall in it's own face within decades. Today capitalist system is being tested in every way and requires FUNDAMENTAL changes for it to survive as an acceptable system. So there is NO perfect model.

In all fairness it will take few more years for Islamic countries to "Come back". The process has started and some of the wrong interpretations are being screened out for more acceptable and genuine version of Islam. if you analyze the power shift in many middle eastern countries, you will see a more tolerant, accepting and open platform of Islam being promoted. Countries like Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia, UAE made huge progress in a short span of time.

As a Muslim, I feel God's law is perfect. But we human beings are VERY imperfect. So the deficit we see in rhetoric and implementation is not a flaw of the law rather shows short comings of human beings and nasty politics. For example, if you offer a BMW car to a Rickshaw puller, he will crash it. Without proper knowledge to operate it, the best car in the world will NOT work.

Those who saw Sheikh Mujibor Rahman closely never doubted his love for our country but history says there are areas where he came short in translating that love for the country as a leader. Despite false propaganda against him, he was a true patriot and devoted to people of our country.

Similarly to "Transform" a concept to reality needs dynamic and pragmatic leaders like Mahathir. Unfortunately neither Sheikh Mujib nor Ziaur Rahman were given enough time to transform our country. Only "Bishwa Behaya" Ershad got sometime in the administration.

Those who speak passionately about women's right issues often overlook the fact, a Muslim majority country like Bangladesh "Elected" women in power for last two decades. Today the world thinks NGOs and private industries did more to empower women than any government initiatives!!

Just take a "Dispassionate" look around our politics today. How much of our parties reflect "Ideals" of these parties. Sarbahara party today not known for promoting socialist model but for looting, killing, abduction etc.

As I said many times, we have to set our priorities first. Which should be our country. In order to protect our people, we have to have transparent justice system, law enforcers, good communication, modern education system etc. These institutions will ensure better protection for our citizens. If we rely on people, we are bound to be disappointed again and again.

Lastly, I think demanding perfection from ALL Muslims ALL the time is not realistic or even fair proposition. Here we discuss the fundamental values of Islam most of the time. How to impliment it in our land is a total different subject. Maybe we can get into such discussion later sometime (If couple verses from the holy Qur'an does not make anyone dizzy, you are welcome to join the discussion!).

Are we mature enough to "Tolerate" such a discussion? :-)


Shalom!



-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, May 12, 2012 11:44 pm
Subject: Re: [KHABOR] RE: [mukto-mona] Fw: [Alapon] Wall Street Journal article--my comment-- a religion as state ideology does not harm development.

 
My question to Mr. Hannan is this - show me a single country in the world that has implemented the (Islamic) system you are talking about, and has been able to attain unabated human development to ascend to the top of the economic ladder?
I have no clue as to what your system is as you have used some strange words in some language that I do not understand. You did not show me an example. I am assuming the answer to my question to you is NO.  
I need result, Mr. Hannan, not hypothesis. As far as I know - no Islamic system (or any other religious system for that matter) has achieved anything that good on this earth so that others should follow them. I do not know who in their right mindset will want to implement reins of ancient Islamic Caliphate in this day and age. These are just wishes of some adamant religious radicals without valid grounds. Everything to them is faith-based. They do not need any proof or validity for their claims. I am puzzled by the fact that so many intelligent educated people attain such a state of mind and cannot get out of it. Or, may be – they are just puppets playing along what their masters are asking them to do or say. It's a tragedy of humankind. You have to excuse me for saying these. I am saying these harsh words out of my true compassion for my fellow human-beings.
Jiten Roy
 
--- On Fri, 5/11/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [KHABOR] RE: [mukto-mona] Fw: [Alapon] Wall Street Journal article--my comment-- a religion as state ideology does not harm development.
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, May 11, 2012, 10:16 PM

 
Hannan is totally ignorant of history.  The Abbasid dynasty came to power by assassinating the Umayyads en mass on a dinner table, perpetrated it's rule by the support of the Mutazillas who did not believe that the holy Quran was the uncreated word of God etc.  If this is the example of a theocratic regime, all atheists would support such administrations.  Talking about the Ashoke and the Mughals; Ashoke was himself converted to Buddhism though the creed did not crystallize as a religion till then and the Mughals were such devout believers that none of them circumcised and the most famous of them even tried to found a new religion.  Aurangzeb tried to show his adherence to Islam bringing about the collapse of  the dynasty.

On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 6:34 AM, S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com> wrote:
 
Munawar sahib and others,
Please read again. I said "A proper Islamic state is expected to do  well in development because it produces moral persons, not secular materialists."
Islam also highlights development in the verse Rabbana Atina Fiddunia Hasanatan ------------"Islam has encouraged work and decried giving up the world or begging.
 
Shah Abdul Hannan
 

From: khabor@yahoogroups.com [mailto:khabor@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ali Manwar
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 6:22 PM
To: khabor@yahoogroups.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [KHABOR] RE: [mukto-mona] Fw: [Alapon] Wall Street Journal article--my comment-- a religion as state ideology does not harm development.
 
 
Dear Mr. Hannan: You did not prove that it was the religion that was the cause of development. So, what is the point?
 
Ali Manwar, PhD
Maryland
 
From: S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 7:31 AM
Subject: [KHABOR] RE: [mukto-mona] Fw: [Alapon] Wall Street Journal article--my comment-- a religion as state ideology does not harm development.
 
Dear Sirs,
Please see my short response to the letter below. If the state takes a religion as its ideology, it does not harm development. Abbasid Khilafat had Islam as the basis of the state. So is the case of Mughals in India . Ashoke's rule in India had Buddhism, Israel has Judaism. All these states reached high stage of development and religious ideology did not harm development.
Development is the function of good leaders, good laws and good governance, state ideology help this only. A proper Islamic state is expected to do  well in development because it produces moral persons, not secular materialists.
Shah Abdul Hannan
 
 
From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jiten Roy
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 5:20 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: [Alapon] Wall Street Journal article
 
 
Encouraging news indeed!
Advanced and prosperous countries do not mix religion and politics. This is not just a statement; the truth is right in front of our eyes. That's the key to the success of the advanced countries. Government has no business to deal with any religion. Let religion take its course.
Whatever progress Bangladesh has made under the present government is due to whatever secular policies they have implemented, and we see the results right away. This should be the encouragement for the government to adopt more secular policies. Country's progress comes from the progress of the individual citizen, irrespective of religious affiliation. When government starts to promote a particular religion over the others, it breaks the cycle of progress in other religious groups, which is bound to degrade the overall progress of the country. Let's learn from history, and work together towards the progress and prosperity of all citizens by transforming Bangladesh into a true secular country, as opposed to making it a model Islamic country. There is no future for any Islamic or Hindu or Christian country in the world. These are vacuous aspirations only - nothing to do with reality.
Jiten Roy
 


--- On Wed, 5/9/12, Muhammad Ali <man1k195709@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Muhammad Ali <man1k195709@yahoo.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Fw: [Alapon] Wall Street Journal article
To:
Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2012, 5:36 PM
 
 
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: modasser khosseine <bolonhome@hotmail.com>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 9:32 PM
Subject: [Alapon] Wall Street Journal article
 
 

 
 
 
Wall Street Journal article

Bangladesh Is South Asia 's Standard-Bearer

The former 'basket case' is more moderate on religion and more pragmatic on development than its peers.

 
Despite its 160-million strong population, Bangladesh can find it hard to elbow its way onto the global stage. It's in an area where India is cast in the lead as the dominant economy, Pakistan plays the intermittent villain, and Sri Lanka and Nepal feature in cameos as countries with uncertain futures. Yet when U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton touches down in Dhaka Saturday—the highest ranking American official to visit in nearly a decade—she'll encounter a country that can teach a lesson or two to all other regional actors.
The world's third-most populous Muslim-majority country stands out as a model of moderation. Unlike in virtually every other country in the Muslim world, Islamists in Bangladesh are on the defensive. Seven people, including high profile leaders of the Jamaat-e-Islami, South Asia's most powerful Islamist group, face war crimes charges for their role in slaughtering Bangladeshi patriots, Muslim and Hindu alike, during the country's 1971 war of independence against Pakistan .
Current Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina Wazed's father, Sheikh Mujibur Rahman (1920-75) led that struggle, which claimed 3 million lives according to the Bangladesh government. The trial reveals the government's willingness to deal with one of the most painful episodes in the young nation's history. It also shows its refusal to allow Islamists to label the regime as "anti-Islam" for pursuing them, a form of blackmail that often obstructs justice in other places.
In a similar vein, Bangladesh can boast one of Asia 's best records of fighting Islamist terrorism. The South Asia Terrorism Portal estimates that only nine people have lost their lives since Ms. Hasina swept to power at the end of 2008. In the four years before that, terrorists claimed 56 lives at home, while the Bangladeshi terrorist group Harkat-ul-Jihad al-Islami (or HuJi-B) carried out high-profile terrorist strikes in India .
Much of Bangladesh 's success in confronting the most intolerant elements within its own society comes from crafting an inclusive national narrative. Unlike Pakistan , Bangladesh does not define itself by faith alone. Most Bangladeshis see no contradiction between being proud Muslims and proud Bengalis. This self-confidence gives the country the ability, which some other Muslim societies lack, to push back against extremism.
Enlarge Image
 
 
EPA
Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina Wazed.
Then there's the down-to-earth pragmatism present in Dhaka 's approach to development. Over the past five years, the economy has expanded on an average of 6% per year. Unlike India , which is hobbled by socialist-era labor laws that interfere with hiring and firing, Bangladesh has built a world-class apparel industry that employs more than 3.5 million people and supplies global brands like H&M, Walmart and Tommy Hilfiger. Thanks to this, the country is already the world's second largest exporter of readymade garments after China . If it plays its cards right, Bangladesh , more than any other South Asian nation, could attract a fresh wave of labor-intensive manufacturing looking for cheaper alternatives to China . Goldman Sachs lists Bangladesh among its "Next 11," countries that have the potential to become major economies.
And after years of tensions with its bigger neighbor, Bangladesh is now being practical and seeking to normalize ties with India . The two countries have already settled long festering territorial disputes and opened up trade. A landmark transit agreement would place Bangladesh at the heart of a potentially dynamic growth corridor encompassing northeastern India and a newly democratizing Burma . This is currently being stymied by Indian politician Mamata Banerjee, who as chief minister of the West Bengal state that borders Bangladesh opposes an allied water-sharing agreement with Dhaka .
Still, Dhaka and New Delhi are pushing for this agreement and it could succeed, possibly ushering in a new peace dividend in the region. At any rate, Dhaka's pragmatism in its foreign relations stands in contrast to India, which can't always suppress its preachy rhetoric of nonalignment (toward the West), as well as Pakistan, which often sputters in a sea of Islamic fundamentalism and knee-jerk opposition to India.
That said, Bangladesh is hardly free of problems. Ms. Hasina and her chief opponent, the Bangladesh Nationalist Party's Khaleda Zia, have created a poisonous zero-sum politics, which has come to the fore again in recent days. The BNP is up in arms at the disappearance of one of its leaders last month and they blame Ms. Hasina's ruling party. They have shut down the country with crippling national strikes four times in the past month.
No one knows how the BNP official in question disappeared, though, and a string of similar disappearances reflect a deteriorating law and order situation. Either law enforcement is engaged in extra-judicial actions, or vigilantes can roam free with impunity. Neither is encouraging.
Meanwhile, the Islamist threat has been reduced but not eliminated. The BNP remains at best ambivalent and at worst actively sympathetic toward Islamist forces similar to those that have helped drag Pakistan in a downward spiral. And though Bangladesh 's army deserves some credit for keeping its distance from politics since late 2008, it's by no means certain that the country's latest experiment with democracy, barely three and a half years old, will last. The military first seized power in 1975, and has done so repeatedly since.
But for now, these worries can take a back seat. This weekend, a country once dismissed by former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger as a basket case, gets to show one of his successors how wrong it has proven him.
Mr. Dhume is a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington, and a columnist for WSJ.com. Follow him on Twitter @dhume01
 
 



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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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