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Saturday, November 14, 2015

Re: [mukto-mona] Greater equanimity required in understanding tolerance - bdnews24.com opinion



Thank you, Mr. Chakrabarty, for your intervention. I agree with all your three points here; but some elaboration of your points would have been better.

Let me address three of the points by Mr. Deeldar.

The Chappel Hill killing in the USA is quite different from the murder of Mohammad Akhlaq and the atrocities on his family in India. The former involved just a lone criminal, the latter involved a mob of 100 criminals. The former was condemned by virtually all shades of politicians and intellectuals of the USA, the latter had soft support by most of India through beef-eating ban laws. The criminal in the US case is likely to get the death penalty in the court, who knows what the 100 criminals in the Indian case are going to get from the legal system of India?

Profiling people named Mohammad may look unfair and be inconvenient for people of that name, it certainly is not uncivilized. It is actually only a right thing to do when so much of terrorist and atrocious activities are being done all over the world by people that are loyal to Mohammad.

Let me reiterate that if all of Europe insisted on refusing entry of Muslim refugees to their land, it might look cruel, but it would be pragmatic for the future of Europe. It certainly would not be uncivilized.

Now, let me clarify that I think that the Western civilization should stop their so-called freedom of religion, they and the other civilized people of the world need to insist rejecting religious edicts that trample the dignity of any section of humanity. In other words, the world needs to care about freedom of humanity over the freedom of the nonsense and hatred of religions.

Sukhamaya Bain

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On Saturday, November 14, 2015 10:28 AM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Let me intervene and make a few general comments:  
1. If an organization declares war against the state, the state does not sit idle. 
2.  If some members of the public in the form of an unruly mob take law in their own hands, then this act would be called terrorism. 
3.  It is the responsibility of the state to protect the interests of the citizens. A state must have sound and pragmatic short term and long term policies. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 13, 2015, at 8:43 AM, Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Such an intellectual with sense that he was not aware of Chapel Hill killings? Such a news junkie that he did not know that basically all Muhammeds are being profiled in the US by his own government? People are being barred from boarding planes. Civilized?
Norwegian, Danish, German and Swedish governments might be superficially showing the civility but their citizens are not as civilized as I can see from these firebombings. Hungary is perfectly OK to refuse to take any single Muslim refugee? And, you think that is kosher? How that is a civil gesture? On what ground? I find you a man with too much contradictions. Killing a man for beef eating is not justifiable and the same goes with  chopping people' heads and hands for criticizing a religion. I am sure Indian law and enforcement can deal with these crimes as they do in 'civilized' countries.
The point that you missed is that these local and global incidents are not happening in a vacuum.
People who have been committing these crimes do not have your level of intellectual and judgmental capacities.  
Well, I will stop here. You are fully entitled with your opinion. Lets agree to disagree.





On Thursday, November 12, 2015 9:23 PM, "Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Well, Mr. Deeldar, let me address your last two messages.

You advised me to start walking the walk as opposed to talking the talk. Unfortunately, I do not have the power to do much better than talking. For I am neither a law-maker nor a law-enforcer; I am only an intellectual. In fact, the high-profile murdered bloggers and writers really belonged to my category.

As for what Norway and quite a few European countries have done, as per the news that you have posted here, they have remained civilized. I would advise them to more aggressively apprehend the the jihadists that are their citizens, and to try to keep any potential foreign jihadist out of their countries; and that would not be uncivilized behavior. However, I would condemn anyone who bans eating any food that is eaten by civilized people.

You talked about Hungary not taking in a single Muslim refugee. I do not see anything wrong in it; it is not uncivilized behavior by any means. The Hungarians are trying to protect themselves from people like Mullah Krekar, who went to Norway as a refugee.

What is the "very similar incidents" in the USA that you are talking about? The fact that humans were uncivilized everywhere in the world in history is no justification to be that now. Moreover, forcibly converting someone from one kind of stupidity (religion) to another kind of stupidity (religion) is not in the same category of crimes as murdering someone for eating beef.

I think I have wasted enough time on this subject here. If you come back with some better sense, I might respond; otherwise this would be my last response to you on this thread.

Sukhamaya Bain

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On Thursday, November 12, 2015 6:08 PM, "Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
"What the civilized countries need to do is to stay civilized, and push for the barbarians to get civilized." -SB
Start walking the walk, dear! Talk is cheap.

Another test case? Norway should stay civilized and accommodate this imbecile? He is only practicing his democratic rights in a secular society?






On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 2:32 PM, "Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
The intolerance thing did not start yesterday. It is a global phenomenon and you can see mosques being firebombed in many civilized countries like Germany, Sweden, Denmark and many other European countries. Country Hungary does not want a single Muslim refugee in their towns? Where are they getting such repugnant ideas? Not sure whom should I call truly civilized? Muslims are not the only the victims of this menace. The political Islam is not a benign entity as you might think. It is equally guilty of creating the monster.... by not advocating people to integrate in any society wherever Muslims are settling down.  Ask any 'civil' European or 'uncivil' Indian and you will get your answer.  You must be thinking the whole world has gone bad and mad with only you being sane?

My point was not about Aqlaque or how many Hindu girls are being kidnapped and forcefully converted to religion of peace in Pakistan. Do you think Indians are so civilized that they can differentiate between these two incidents? The very similar incidents have already happened in the US too.

Relevancy is in the eyes of the beholder!










On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 5:48 PM, "Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
I think most of the questions by Mr. Deeldar here are either irrelevant or corrupted with statements that are wrong.

'Are Muslims totally innocent ....?' As far as the murder of Mr. Akhlaq and the atrocities against his family are concerned, the talk should be about the Hindu barbarians, not about Muslims.

'Are Muslims totally secular as Muslim think ....?' First, what community is totally secular? Second, do most Muslims really think that they are secular?

Does it justify any civilized country be be religious fanatic because Muslim-majority countries are? My answer is, NO. What the civilized countries need to do is to stay civilized, and push for the barbarians to get civilized.

'Eventually a cow would be slaughtered right in front of a Hindu house to test the Indian secularism.' Really, Mr. Deeldar? Is any civilized country in the world allowing slaughtering of any animal on city streets or in neighborhoods in front of any kind of people's home? The answer is, NO. Surely India's secularism test should not involve cow slaughtering in front of Hindu houses. In fact, Bangladesh needs to make the progress of slaughtering cows and other animals only in designated slaughterhouses and away from public views.

I believe I have addressed most of Dr. Roy's points as well.

Sukhamaya Bain

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On Sunday, November 8, 2015 9:07 PM, "Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
The question is why the trouble has started in India now? Are Muslims totally innocents as Muslims say? Are Muslims totally secular as Muslims think or feel? I do see a problem there with duplicity in the light of what has been happening locally and globally. Most Muslim majority countries have no respect or regard for minority rights while Muslims want West and other infidel countries to be perfect in secularism and treat Muslims fairly? Even Muslims can't stand Muslims and Muslims fleeing from Muslim countries for better life in infidel countries. I am troubled with such dichotomy.
Eventually a cow would be slaughtered right in front of a Hindu house to test the Indian secularism. Why that should be a problem for the Hindus? The problem is not a black and white as people think.  
 






On Sunday, November 8, 2015 1:05 PM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
"How would you muzzle their nonviolent act of feeling sad and outrage over the state of affairs vis-a-vis beef eating in India?"
Politicians will not go against a popular demand; it's a suicidal act for them.
It will be naïve to say that ban on cow-slaughter is just against banning beef-eating. It could be supported if it was done just for the right to eat beef alone, but the issue has religious sentiment to it also. Indian liberal intellectuals are lining up to return their awards over it is a publicity stunt.
Remember the proverb – "বসতে দিলে খেতে চায়; খেত দিলে শুতে ছায়, ইত্যাদি, ইত্যাদি,"
Let's say you legalize cow slaughter. What will happen when Muslims start slaughtering thousands of cows for the EID celebration, while Hindus, in the next door, start worshiping cows for Jonmastomi celebration?
It's not as simple as many liberals may make it to be.
Jiten Roy

 

From: "Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2015 9:51 AM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Greater equanimity required in understanding tolerance - bdnews24.com opinion

 
My following comments on the subject article in bdnews24.com are 'awaiting moderation' since the morning of November 6, 2015 (Bangladesh Time):

"Another mumbo jumbo write-up. What a gibberish, "Writers, poets, artists and scientists are expressing their dissent like never before by returning their awards. But had there been intolerance their views and acts would have certainly been muzzled/ tried to be muzzled."! How would you not tolerate someone giving up his/her award, Mr. Kapoor? How would you muzzle their nonviolent act of feeling sad and outrage over the state of affairs vis-a-vis beef eating in India? Lynch them like what was done to Mohammad Akhlaq in Uttar Pradesh? The reality of the matter is that India, even under the secularism-flashing political parties, has been intolerant of beef eating. The reality is that in almost 90% of the land area of India, slaughtering cow and eating beef are prohibited by law. You can read more on the subject by clicking the link below.


India surely needs to improve a lot on not imposing illogical majority and mob wishes on its citizens."


















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Posted by: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>


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