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Thursday, August 30, 2012

Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam



I have high regards for the indian constitution. The state, those who run the state, and the people are different things. All people are not equally enlightened. Similarly all rulers are not fair. It is a well known fact that the Congress govt. did not stop the demolition of the historic structure. It is comparable to the destruction of the Bamiyan mosque by the Taliban. Saying this does not mean that I have undermined the Indian constitution. In Meerat riot, state police (I think called consabulary) took the sides of the Hindu goons. You can come with more examples. Even in the beating case, the police was not fair. 

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam
 
Mr. Q. Rahman is blaming the secular constitution of India for not protecting the girl, who was punished ('beaten') by her relatives for converting to Islam. Mr. Chakraborty, on the other hand, first supported the Indian secular constitution, and then undermined it.  None of these comments make any sense to me. I am not sure why they are trying to connect secularism and constitution with this story, except to undermine them. As I see - this is a family issue, and the family, obviously, could not approve girl's action, and they were angry, which resulted into such a punishment. I see nothing unusual here. Do you?

Let me remind Mr. Rahman and others that - this is not the so called 'honor-killing' issue of the Hindu society. If it were, I could join hands with Mr. Rahman and others. 
 
There are thousands of incidents like this in Bangladesh. I am sure, Mr. Chakraborty and Mr. Rahman are aware of many of them. Often I hear stories like – adolescent schoolgirls abducted and converted to Islam. Most cases - these girls are lost forever from their families and friends. So,  their anger is quite justifiable in this case. There is no happy ending in any of these families.
 
I could care less if someone made a conscious decision about his/her religion. Unfortunately, that's not the case; most of these girls are very young, and unable to make conscious judgment at that age. Many of them admitted, in the later part of their lives, that it was a wrong decision in the first place. But, what good that could bring in their lives - nothing? The only way this process can be fair - if it is open-ended, and uniformly supported by all religious communities. Can this happen with the honor-killing system in the society? I doubt.
 
Jiten Roy


--- On Tue, 8/28/12, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 28, 2012, 9:04 PM

 
People are not the state. Indian state has a secular constitution that does not endorse such killings, but a state with strict Shariah law will probably will commit such killings officially. Ambedkar, a great scholar and one of the chief architects of the Indian constitution, led a mass conversion of 50,000 dalits to Buddhism. It might not have been possible in any other country. It does not mean that leaders of the secular parties are all free from evils. The then secular leaders showed total passivity during (or maybe even indirectly supported) the demolition of the Babri mosque. Many a time (I still remember Meerat riot) state police have participated in communal riots to kill Muslims.
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam
 
Maybe, you should check out what Muslims do to their own brothers and sisters when they abandon their religion? They get killed or stoned! Get off your high horse, bro! -SD

 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 3:22 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam
 
Thanks God for Indian press. The real situation of "Secular India" where people are NOT free to pick a religion of their choice.


Shalom!

 
 

 
 

India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam

 
Vinita Shaw and her sister both say they were beaten by neighbors for converting from Hinduism to Islam, and here I was thinking that it was only Muslims who had issues with those of their (former) co-religionists who leave the faith!
Vinita Shaw and her sister both say they were beaten by neighbors for converting from Hinduism to Islam, and here I was thinking that it was only Muslims who had issues with those of their (former) co-religionists who leave the faith!
What if they were Muslim?:

Sisters beaten up for converting to Islam

by Arshad Ali (Indian Express)
A south Kolkata girl, who has converted from Hinduism to Islam, and her sister who is also keen to convert, were beaten up allegedly by the associates of the local councillor. The girls have also alleged police inaction.
Vinita Shaw, 25, a resident of 57/2B Bondel Road, adopted Islam in December last year. Her new name, vide an affidavit by a first class magistrate is, Taiba Khatoon (The Indian Express possesses a copy of the affidavit). Her sister, 18-year-old Pooja Shaw, too, expressed her wish to follow suit last week.
The conversion apparently did not go down too well with their neighbours, who, on June 8, beat up the two sisters and their family, including her mother and brother, with bricks and rods.
"We are a very poor family. My father is paralytic and bed-ridden. These people started a fight on the pretext that we dirty the place too much. But when they started beating us, they said unmentionable things as I have converted," said Vinita. She also alleged that both sisters were abused and molested.
Vinita also claimed harassment at the hands of the police."I went to the police station with a written complaint against Asim Bera, Tapas Bera, Abhishek Malakar, Krishna Ray, Akash Ray, Manoj Singh, Bikas Singh and Birju Paswan but investigating officer D D Roy Chowdhury tore it up and wrote it himself. He even refused to give me a copy of the complaint and when I insisted, he asked the other officer there to give it to me, referring to me with unmentionable names," she said.
 
  
     
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


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               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: Former India state minister faces death for role in massacre



Is Maya Kodnani going to be an escape goat? Narendra Modi is the main villain. Even his boss Vajpayee got very angry with Modi over the Gujarat riot.

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: Former India state minister faces death for role in massacre
 
If India can stick to it's ideals, it will do a lot of good for the country and bring confidence back to the institutions. Lets hope criminals gets punished this time. Shalom!


-----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:50 am Subject: [mukto-mona] Fw: Former India state minister faces death for role in massacre
 
FYI

--- On Wed, 8/29/12, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
Subject:
To: "Jiten Roy" <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 29, 2012, 3:54 PM

 

Former India state minister faces death for role in massacre

Reuters –  3 hrs ago
NEW DELHI (Reuters) - A former Indian state minister was found guilty on Wednesday of murder in one of the country's worst religious riots, the highest-profile conviction in a case that casts a shadow over the country 10 years on.
Human rights groups say about 2,500 people, mostly Muslims, were hacked, beaten or burned to death in Gujarat state after a suspected Muslim mob burned alive 59 Hindu activists and pilgrims inside a train in February 2002.
Prosecutors have demanded the death penalty for lawmaker Maya Kodnani, who was among a group charged with "beating, cutting down, burning alive and causing the deaths of women, men and children", according to the charge sheet, in an episode of the Gujarat bloodletting known as the Naroda Patiya massacre.
Kodnani's conviction comes as her Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) prepares for elections in the western state of Gujarat. Narendra Modi, leader of the economic powerhouse state, is often touted as a future prime minister.
One witness alleged Kodnani, who became a minister in the state government five years after the riots, identified Muslim targets to be attacked and at one point fired a pistol.
The Congress party, in power nationally, signaled the case would likely feature in its Gujarat election campaign, saying Kodnani's conviction was proof of the BJP's involvement in the riots.
The BJP said the court ruling was proof that the state's criminal justice system was free from bias.
The savagery of the killings still haunts a country that has witnessed many bouts of religious and ethnic violence since independence from Britain in 1947.
Modi, who was chief minister at the time of the riots, has been accused by critics of turning a blind eye to the violence.
In an interview with the Wall Street Journal published on Wednesday, Modi responded to the criticism, saying he saw no reason to apologize. "One only has to ask for forgiveness if one is guilty of a crime," he said.
Some senior members of the right-wing BJP worry, however, that the enduring legacy of the riots could hurt their chances of unseating the Congress party in national elections due in 2014.
The anti-Modi camp among the BJP's allies believes he is too tainted by the Gujarat riots to be a viable candidate for prime minister despite his success in attracting foreign companies like Ford Motor Co to his state and managing a booming economy there that has averaged double-digit growth annually.
Modi's government was quick to distance itself from the court ruling on Wednesday, noting that Kodnani had not been a Gujarat state minister at the time of the riots.
She resigned from the government when she was arrested in 2009, but remained a member of the state's legislative assembly.
Kodnani and 31 others were convicted by the court in Ahmedabad, Gujarat's main city, for their role in the episode in which 97 people were killed.
"For all the 32 accused, I have argued for death penalty," prosecutor Akhil Desai told a news conference in Ahmedabad.
The court will hand down sentences on Friday.
(Reporting by Shashank Chouhan; Writing by Tony Tharakan and Ross Colvin; Editing by Alison Williams)


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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

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****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam



The likes of Mr. Rahman probably consider killing better than beating.  Women, according to their religious decree, are like a land that can be tilled at will, and killed for the 'crime' they might commit which glorify men.

On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 6:07 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

This case is simple, just like any other issue where elders rebuke or punish youngsters for wrongdoings. Not a constitutional or secular issue.  However,  honor-killing issue could be under the jurisdiction of the constitution. That was my point.

Jiten Roy



--- On Thu, 8/30/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, August 30, 2012, 10:56 AM


 


Mr. Q. Rahman is blaming the secular constitution of India for not protecting the girl, who was punished ('beaten') by her relatives for converting to Islam.


>>>>>>>>> it seems member Roy missed the point made in my last post. I am not interested to insult anyone in this forum or "Indian constitution".

For many months in this forum I was "Told" by many members religion/Islam is the cause for many social ills. I have consistently said, religion does not approve mistreating women in any share or form. I do not think the founding fathers of India even "Approved" of making lives of Indian women miserable either. However good laws needs strong institutions of apply those laws on people who violate those laws.

Here (IN Muktomona) people tend to focus on people who violate religious laws and attempt to make a case against religion. However the SAME sets of members will bring who different argument when I make the same case against a secular country like India. Then it becomes a "Family problem" not religion or secularism.

Which shows most of our "Mukto-monas" are NOT able to get away from their per-conceived notions about issues we discuss. 


There are thousands of incidents like this in Bangladesh


>>>>>>>>> I am sure there is. When we discuss those issues, many members will not shy away from blaming "Islam" or "Jihadi" Muslims for it.

The irony is we get furious when we see double standards. Most of us don't realize that, when we make comments based on emotion (Instead of facts on ground!) we do the same!!

Just to "Counter" my comment on "India", we see comments on "Honor killing" (Which has NO relations to Islam, rather a part of many cultures across the globe), Bangladesh and to top it off' " I see nothing unusual here" and "their anger is quite justifiable in this case".


It does not matter if the injustice taking place in India, Bangladesh, Myanmar or Palestine. Those of us who have some level of education should have the backbone to call it what it is. If it is a wrong thing, we need to unitedly say, it is WRONG!!

If some of us silently or vocally support wrongdoing to other people, it is hard to stand up against oppression. That is why it is so hard for us to remove oppression in our own country. We should not tolerate intolerance.

Lastly, according to the report, it was the neighbors who did not approve of the conversion.

My two cents.....


Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:45 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam

 
Mr. Q. Rahman is blaming the secular constitution of India for not protecting the girl, who was punished ('beaten') by her relatives for converting to Islam. Mr. Chakraborty, on the other hand, first supported the Indian secular constitution, and then undermined it.  None of these comments make any sense to me. I am not sure why they are trying to connect secularism and constitution with this story, except to undermine them. As I see - this is a family issue, and the family, obviously, could not approve girl's action, and they were angry, which resulted into such a punishment. I see nothing unusual here. Do you?

Let me remind Mr. Rahman and others that - this is not the so called 'honor-killing' issue of the Hindu society. If it were, I could join hands with Mr. Rahman and others. 
 
There are thousands of incidents like this in Bangladesh. I am sure, Mr. Chakraborty and Mr. Rahman are aware of many of them. Often I hear stories like – adolescent schoolgirls abducted and converted to Islam. Most cases - these girls are lost forever from their families and friends. So,  their anger is quite justifiable in this case. There is no happy ending in any of these families.
 
I could care less if someone made a conscious decision about his/her religion. Unfortunately, that's not the case; most of these girls are very young, and unable to make conscious judgment at that age. Many of them admitted, in the later part of their lives, that it was a wrong decision in the first place. But, what good that could bring in their lives - nothing? The only way this process can be fair - if it is open-ended, and uniformly supported by all religious communities. Can this happen with the honor-killing system in the society? I doubt.
 
Jiten Roy


--- On Tue, 8/28/12, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 28, 2012, 9:04 PM

 
People are not the state. Indian state has a secular constitution that does not endorse such killings, but a state with strict Shariah law will probably will commit such killings officially. Ambedkar, a great scholar and one of the chief architects of the Indian constitution, led a mass conversion of 50,000 dalits to Buddhism. It might not have been possible in any other country. It does not mean that leaders of the secular parties are all free from evils. The then secular leaders showed total passivity during (or maybe even indirectly supported) the demolition of the Babri mosque. Many a time (I still remember Meerat riot) state police have participated in communal riots to kill Muslims.

From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam

 
Maybe, you should check out what Muslims do to their own brothers and sisters when they abandon their religion? They get killed or stoned! Get off your high horse, bro!
-SD

 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 3:22 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam

 
Thanks God for Indian press. The real situation of "Secular India" where people are NOT free to pick a religion of their choice.


Shalom!



 
 

 
 

India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam

 
Vinita Shaw and her sister both say they were beaten by neighbors for converting from Hinduism to Islam, and here I was thinking that it was only Muslims who had issues with those of their (former) co-religionists who leave the faith!
Vinita Shaw and her sister both say they were beaten by neighbors for converting from Hinduism to Islam, and here I was thinking that it was only Muslims who had issues with those of their (former) co-religionists who leave the faith!
What if they were Muslim?:

Sisters beaten up for converting to Islam

by Arshad Ali (Indian Express)
A south Kolkata girl, who has converted from Hinduism to Islam, and her sister who is also keen to convert, were beaten up allegedly by the associates of the local councillor. The girls have also alleged police inaction.
Vinita Shaw, 25, a resident of 57/2B Bondel Road, adopted Islam in December last year. Her new name, vide an affidavit by a first class magistrate is, Taiba Khatoon (The Indian Express possesses a copy of the affidavit). Her sister, 18-year-old Pooja Shaw, too, expressed her wish to follow suit last week.
The conversion apparently did not go down too well with their neighbours, who, on June 8, beat up the two sisters and their family, including her mother and brother, with bricks and rods.
"We are a very poor family. My father is paralytic and bed-ridden. These people started a fight on the pretext that we dirty the place too much. But when they started beating us, they said unmentionable things as I have converted," said Vinita. She also alleged that both sisters were abused and molested.
Vinita also claimed harassment at the hands of the police."I went to the police station with a written complaint against Asim Bera, Tapas Bera, Abhishek Malakar, Krishna Ray, Akash Ray, Manoj Singh, Bikas Singh and Birju Paswan but investigating officer D D Roy Chowdhury tore it up and wrote it himself. He even refused to give me a copy of the complaint and when I insisted, he asked the other officer there to give it to me, referring to me with unmentionable names," she said.
 
  

     
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 







__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
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Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam



This case is simple, just like any other issue where elders rebuke or punish youngsters for wrongdoings. Not a constitutional or secular issue.  However,  honor-killing issue could be under the jurisdiction of the constitution. That was my point.

Jiten Roy



--- On Thu, 8/30/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, August 30, 2012, 10:56 AM

 


Mr. Q. Rahman is blaming the secular constitution of India for not protecting the girl, who was punished ('beaten') by her relatives for converting to Islam.


>>>>>>>>> it seems member Roy missed the point made in my last post. I am not interested to insult anyone in this forum or "Indian constitution".

For many months in this forum I was "Told" by many members religion/Islam is the cause for many social ills. I have consistently said, religion does not approve mistreating women in any share or form. I do not think the founding fathers of India even "Approved" of making lives of Indian women miserable either. However good laws needs strong institutions of apply those laws on people who violate those laws.

Here (IN Muktomona) people tend to focus on people who violate religious laws and attempt to make a case against religion. However the SAME sets of members will bring who different argument when I make the same case against a secular country like India. Then it becomes a "Family problem" not religion or secularism.

Which shows most of our "Mukto-monas" are NOT able to get away from their per-conceived notions about issues we discuss. 


There are thousands of incidents like this in Bangladesh


>>>>>>>>> I am sure there is. When we discuss those issues, many members will not shy away from blaming "Islam" or "Jihadi" Muslims for it.

The irony is we get furious when we see double standards. Most of us don't realize that, when we make comments based on emotion (Instead of facts on ground!) we do the same!!

Just to "Counter" my comment on "India", we see comments on "Honor killing" (Which has NO relations to Islam, rather a part of many cultures across the globe), Bangladesh and to top it off' " I see nothing unusual here" and "their anger is quite justifiable in this case".


It does not matter if the injustice taking place in India, Bangladesh, Myanmar or Palestine. Those of us who have some level of education should have the backbone to call it what it is. If it is a wrong thing, we need to unitedly say, it is WRONG!!

If some of us silently or vocally support wrongdoing to other people, it is hard to stand up against oppression. That is why it is so hard for us to remove oppression in our own country. We should not tolerate intolerance.

Lastly, according to the report, it was the neighbors who did not approve of the conversion.

My two cents.....


Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:45 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam

 
Mr. Q. Rahman is blaming the secular constitution of India for not protecting the girl, who was punished ('beaten') by her relatives for converting to Islam. Mr. Chakraborty, on the other hand, first supported the Indian secular constitution, and then undermined it.  None of these comments make any sense to me. I am not sure why they are trying to connect secularism and constitution with this story, except to undermine them. As I see - this is a family issue, and the family, obviously, could not approve girl's action, and they were angry, which resulted into such a punishment. I see nothing unusual here. Do you?

Let me remind Mr. Rahman and others that - this is not the so called 'honor-killing' issue of the Hindu society. If it were, I could join hands with Mr. Rahman and others. 
 
There are thousands of incidents like this in Bangladesh. I am sure, Mr. Chakraborty and Mr. Rahman are aware of many of them. Often I hear stories like – adolescent schoolgirls abducted and converted to Islam. Most cases - these girls are lost forever from their families and friends. So,  their anger is quite justifiable in this case. There is no happy ending in any of these families.
 
I could care less if someone made a conscious decision about his/her religion. Unfortunately, that's not the case; most of these girls are very young, and unable to make conscious judgment at that age. Many of them admitted, in the later part of their lives, that it was a wrong decision in the first place. But, what good that could bring in their lives - nothing? The only way this process can be fair - if it is open-ended, and uniformly supported by all religious communities. Can this happen with the honor-killing system in the society? I doubt.
 
Jiten Roy


--- On Tue, 8/28/12, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 28, 2012, 9:04 PM

 
People are not the state. Indian state has a secular constitution that does not endorse such killings, but a state with strict Shariah law will probably will commit such killings officially. Ambedkar, a great scholar and one of the chief architects of the Indian constitution, led a mass conversion of 50,000 dalits to Buddhism. It might not have been possible in any other country. It does not mean that leaders of the secular parties are all free from evils. The then secular leaders showed total passivity during (or maybe even indirectly supported) the demolition of the Babri mosque. Many a time (I still remember Meerat riot) state police have participated in communal riots to kill Muslims.

From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam

 
Maybe, you should check out what Muslims do to their own brothers and sisters when they abandon their religion? They get killed or stoned! Get off your high horse, bro!
-SD

 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 3:22 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] - India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam

 
Thanks God for Indian press. The real situation of "Secular India" where people are NOT free to pick a religion of their choice.


Shalom!



 
 

 
 

India: Sisters Beaten for Converting to Islam

 
Vinita Shaw and her sister both say they were beaten by neighbors for converting from Hinduism to Islam, and here I was thinking that it was only Muslims who had issues with those of their (former) co-religionists who leave the faith!
Vinita Shaw and her sister both say they were beaten by neighbors for converting from Hinduism to Islam, and here I was thinking that it was only Muslims who had issues with those of their (former) co-religionists who leave the faith!
What if they were Muslim?:

Sisters beaten up for converting to Islam

by Arshad Ali (Indian Express)
A south Kolkata girl, who has converted from Hinduism to Islam, and her sister who is also keen to convert, were beaten up allegedly by the associates of the local councillor. The girls have also alleged police inaction.
Vinita Shaw, 25, a resident of 57/2B Bondel Road, adopted Islam in December last year. Her new name, vide an affidavit by a first class magistrate is, Taiba Khatoon (The Indian Express possesses a copy of the affidavit). Her sister, 18-year-old Pooja Shaw, too, expressed her wish to follow suit last week.
The conversion apparently did not go down too well with their neighbours, who, on June 8, beat up the two sisters and their family, including her mother and brother, with bricks and rods.
"We are a very poor family. My father is paralytic and bed-ridden. These people started a fight on the pretext that we dirty the place too much. But when they started beating us, they said unmentionable things as I have converted," said Vinita. She also alleged that both sisters were abused and molested.
Vinita also claimed harassment at the hands of the police."I went to the police station with a written complaint against Asim Bera, Tapas Bera, Abhishek Malakar, Krishna Ray, Akash Ray, Manoj Singh, Bikas Singh and Birju Paswan but investigating officer D D Roy Chowdhury tore it up and wrote it himself. He even refused to give me a copy of the complaint and when I insisted, he asked the other officer there to give it to me, referring to me with unmentionable names," she said.
 
  

     
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 






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Re: [mukto-mona] FW: "Bringing Bangladeshi Angle to Assamese Ethnic Conflict is Disservice to the Nation"



It is pointless to argue with persons devoid of common sense.  These men have raised the status of a loan shark to that of a living divine.  That loan shark collected subscription from abroad in the name of poor women of the land and enriched himself, evaded taxes, wanted to dictate the country for at least ten years obviously to grab all the resources, and yet an investigation on his activities should be forbidden?  Holy cow!

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

"Most Indians working in BD are not legal."

This is your first sentence and then you say they do not pay taxes?
So, you want to say these Indians just crossed the Bangladeshi border and running some of the Bangladeshi companies? So, why they are not being shot at the border or deported for not paying taxes? That makes no sense to me.

I do not think you got my point of "pot calling kettle black." The point is that very few Bangladeshis really pay taxes. When Indians are working along side with our Bangladeshi brothers and sisters, they learn fast how to avoid paying taxes. Now, when we do not bother to pay taxes, why would we force Indian guest workers to pay the tax?

In regards to Yonus, only thing I can say is that he got a peace prize for his Grameen bank idea. If he were from another country, he would not have gotten that prize. Sadly, the Grameen idea has not worked for Bangladeshi poor people. Poor people can't even afford to pay 20% interest on their borrowed money. Even 5% interest would be too much for these poor souls. That 20% interest is very similar to credit card interest of VISA and Master Cards. So, there goes the great Grameen idea. It is only an idea with the same old wine in a new bottle, I suppose.

Now, for the enemy property law of Indian subcontinent, only suggestive trend that I see is that while Hindu population has dwindled over the years from 37-40% to merely 7-10% in Bangladesh, Muslim population in WB has gone up to more than 25%. What does that suggest to you? Tell me who is being ethically cleansed more? This is not rocket science, bro.  The way this is being done is to force people to leave their property and then declare their property as being enemy property. This epidemy started big way since 1965 Indo -Pak war and the flow has only one direction.

My friend, there is a problem with our "peace of religion" slogan. It has rather become a broken record slogan with virtually no real meaning!
Good day to you!
-SD

 

 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:36 PM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: "Bringing Bangladeshi Angle to Assamese Ethnic Conflict is Disservice to the Nation"

 
Even Silicon valley Indians are not paying enough taxes for US government. Time to deport these creeps? Bangladesh should do the same, I suppose.
By the way, how many Bangladeshis really pay taxes? I am just curious. It seems like a pot calling kettles black.

>>>>>>>>>> Pot is not saying anything. Don't think you UNDERSTOOD my post. Or too eager to reply . It is a reality that most Indians don't pay taxes for the salaries they earn in Bangladesh but I did say, it is NOT a major concern for me. We may have a nice conversation here IF you take the time to READ my post.


PS. Indian constitution does not have an intimidating word Bismillah in its preamble and does not have law like enemy vested property. Wake up bro from your deep ignorance and idiocy!



>>>>>>>>> Actually most of Indian or Bangladeshi constitution are wonderful concepts. Both countries fails in applying these "Great ideals". They become partisan or communal. I mean just look at how Dr. Muhammad Yunus has been attacked and treated!!

If he belonged to any other country of this world, he would have been given a bank like Grameen to apply his ideas. In Bangladesh, we did not give him any additional support from our government but took away his institution from him. He made all Asians proud. He made us beaming all over the world but we never fail to make an idiot out of ourselves. I honestly don't know why some people got so angry with him but even he made some mistakes, he should be supported for brightening our image in the world.

We say lovely words in our constitution but how much of it do we apply? Same goes to India. Even Indian leaders cannot keep the promises they made to Bangladesh!!

How sad is that???

For your information, India do have similar laws (Enemy property) and in the process of taking over properties left by Muslim Indians during 40's and 50's. This news came out last year in many newspapers. There are areas India does well and there are ares Bangladesh does well. However when it comes to having a tolerant society, India is far behind Bangladesh.

Again, I don't mind criticism but desire for "Educated and knowledgeable" comments instead of blind rage I see (Again religion and against some members).

Shalom! 


-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Aug 29, 2012 5:47 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: "Bringing Bangladeshi Angle to Assamese Ethnic Conflict is Disservice to the Nation"

 
Even Silicon valley Indians are not paying enough taxes for US government. Time to deport these creeps? Bangladesh should do the same, I suppose.
By the way, how many Bangladeshis really pay taxes? I am just curious. It seems like a pot calling kettles black.

-SD

PS. Indian constitution does not have an intimidating word Bismillah in its preamble and does not have law like enemy vested property. Wake up bro from your deep ignorance and idiocy!

 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 6:36 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: "Bringing Bangladeshi Angle to Assamese Ethnic Conflict is Disservice to the Nation"

 
That is very true, they are brought in legally.

>>>>>>>> Most Indians working in BD are not legal. They don't pay taxes either. There were some articles published in few newspapers on this topic. I would be happier if these Indians pay taxes on the money they earn in BD but it is not a major concern for me.

This aspect is not hurting ether countries in any significant ways but Indian communal politicians are targeting "Bangladeshis" for one reason only. They happen to be Muslims!!

Which shows India has a lots of "Area of opportunities" to improve religious tolerance and establish human rights for all people.


Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Aug 28, 2012 8:35 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: "Bringing Bangladeshi Angle to Assamese Ethnic Conflict is Disservice to the Nation"

 
"There are significant numbers of Indians do make a living here. Specially in textile mills and other technical jobs in our industrial complexes."  That is very true, they are brought in legally.  It indeed takes low lives to ignite communal riot. But then, low lives carry their religious identity, and believe that solving all problems is possible by prescription given hundreds of years ago, i.e., kill the opposition.

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 12:53 AM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 

Look, Mr. Chakrabarty; I had been listening to the language of the indigenous people of Assam for last forty seven years, it is quite distinct from that of those of Noakhali.

>>>>>>>>>>> I hear a lot of "West Bengal" accent in Dhaka all the time. Still I don't worry about loads of Indians working in our cities. There are significant numbers of Indians do make a living here. Specially in textile mills and other technical jobs in our industrial complexes.

It takes a low life to make political issues out of it.

Shalom!



-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 27, 2012 7:48 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: "Bringing Bangladeshi Angle to Assamese Ethnic Conflict is Disservice to the Nation"

 
Look, Mr. Chakrabarty; I had been listening to the language of the indigenous people of Assam for last forty seven years, it is quite distinct from that of those of Noakhali.

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 6:35 AM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
So far we have seen several articles on Assam crisis in this very forum. All of them point to the same general observation that Muslim issue in Assam is a cooked one. One may however may not believe this as he may think that all these articles have been written by the pseudo-seculars and Muslim appeasers. I was in a Guawa hotel in mid-eighties. One hotel attendant asked me, "Chaaa dimu?" To me it sounded like a Bangladeshi accent, but it was not. During 1971 occupation time we used to listen to Guawahati radio station for news. We used to be amused by a line from the newscaster: Sri Tajuddiney koy or koichhey. My point is that for historical reasons, Assamese accent in some areas are pretty to Bengali accent in some of the areas in Bangladesh.
 

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 5:10 PM

Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] FW: "Bringing Bangladeshi Angle to Assamese Ethnic Conflict is Disservice to the Nation"
 
Farida Majid: "Whether you like it or not, and you and the mukto-mona smart alecs may not have noticed it, the world has moved on from the early 19th century English  Protestant priest's fear -- The Malthus catastrophe. Any one who talks about the Malthusian principle is laughed at."

What is she talking about? Utter ignorance.

Malthusian Theory is always valid. Production can never grow at a geometric progression forever, but population can. Yes, population burden can be lessened through economic development and growth in the country up to a point, but - that cannot compete with the ever growing population forever. When the economic growth in the country cannot handle the population burden, demographic invasion/migration to neighboring countries starts to occur. Such demographic invasion/migration from Bangladesh is occurring in India now, and creating havoc there.  Recent carnages in Assam, West Bengal, Mumbai, etc. bear the hallmark of such demographic invasion/migration from Bangladesh, as indicated by Kamal Das.  Yet, some people are still supporting such population growth merely for the sake of the growth of Ummah, and trying to put lipstick on the pig, as Farida Majid just did.

Jiten Roy


--- On Sun, 8/26/12, Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] FW: "Bringing Bangladeshi Angle to Assamese Ethnic Conflict is Disservice to the Nation"
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "Deeldar Shah" <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
Date: Sunday, August 26, 2012, 4:38 PM

 
       Whether you like it or not, and you and the mukto-mona smart alecs may not have noticed it, the world has moved on from the early 19th century English  Protestant priest's fear -- The Malthus catastrophe. Any one who talks about the Malthusian principle is laughed at.  Why are you babbling about Muslims in the same manner as Mohish Mohiuddin and, on the flip side, the Hindu communalists of Sangh Parivar and Bangladesh?             It has been hard to rock the secular foundation of Bengal (Bangladesh) and we all know what painful, terrifying, murderous attempts there have been made to do so in the past 75 years or so. I lose heart sometimes. The Jamaat-shibir-razakar gang and their Baap-chacha -- KSA & Uncle Sam-- keep putting on the crunches.  Bangladesh is increasingly an important South Asian country.  Our human resources are our greatest strength.  Again-- times don't stand still, and values, even in economic calculations, undergo changes.                   Farida Majid
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2012 13:00:47 -0700From: shahdeeldar@yahoo.comSubject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: "Bringing Bangladeshi Angle to Assamese Ethnic Conflict is Disservice to the Nation"To: farida_majid@hotmail.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.comCC: kamalctgu@gmail.com
Well, well, you might not like his straight talk but he is not totally wrong. We are now more 160 millions and still breeding with a very fast rate with the hope that Allah will take care of us.  Obviously, the almighty does not care about our population growth or whether we should be forced to head for other countries in the future? The space is very limited in Bangladesh and there is already a spill over effect on surrounding countries whether you believe or not. No country would like to be overwhelmed by another fast growing population group with no intention to integrate but fight for a greater Ummah. These are legitimate fears whether you like or not. Muslims have failed to take care of its own problems. It is the quality that is needed not the quantity!-SD

 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 2:34 PM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] FW: "Bringing Bangladeshi Angle to Assamese Ethnic Conflict is Disservice to the Nation"
  Does this man Kamal Das have no other hobby than bashing Islam, bad-mouthing Muslims of Bangladesh and dispensing unsolicited,incoherent wisdom like disjointed dark-colored globules of shit (otherwise known as chhagoler naadi)?
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.comFrom: kamalctgu@gmail.comDate: Sun, 26 Aug 2012 16:40:03 +0600Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: "Bringing Bangladeshi Angle to Assamese Ethnic Conflict is Disservice to the Nation"  
A blind man is not expected to see anything.  The B. B. C. & CNN coverage on the episode had plenty of people speaking with Bangladeshi accent.
On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 11:28 PM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
I saw no trace of Bagladeshi offensive in the conflict, so systematically and vigorously orchestrated by BJP and VHP, led by L.K. Advani, Tarun Vijay and Praveen Togadia. They are playing with the lives of people and poisoning atmosphere for future. Bangladeshi is more of an abuse to humiliate Muslims who are native Indians. There may be a few percent Bangladeshis (as a Rajvanshi ex-serviceman in rural Kokrajhar put it at 10%), but even these, in all likelihood are labourers and labourers are no exploiters but an exploited lot.  They need to be treated with dignity. All countries have legal and illegal migrants.

>>>>>>>>>>> Exactly. At last some common sense!!

I have been to India but did not see large "Bangladeshi" population roaming around. I hear a lot about Bangladeshi shoppers who buys a lot of Indian goods and going for better treatment in India but don't think there are significant amount of Bangladeshi people that can cause social unrest.

Once of the problem is Muslims from West Bengal are treated like "Bangladeshi foreigners" in their own country. This is an Indian issue and Indian leadership need to address it properly.


Even if there are some insignificant number of "Illegals" in India, I don't think they are running out with a load of money in their pockets. We are talking India not Sweden!!
So treating every person with minimum dignity will bring India closer to her neighbors. Right now "Center" is hated by many Indians themselves and Indian policies are disliked by her neighbors. This is not how future super powers works. Maybe India can learn from China about foreign policies.
t 6 AM on August 5 I left for Kashipara and from there to Kokrajhar. I visted the Commerce College Bodo camp. People treated me with warmth and showed appreciation for peace efforts. At 12 noon I took Kamrup express to Guwahati.
>>>>>>>>> I am glad people are coming back their senses. Wish only peace and prosperity for these people. Hope politicians will not mislead these people any more. A peaceful, prosperous and stable India should be part of collective Bangladeshi wishes as well.

Shalom!

-----Original Message----- From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> Sent: Fri, Aug 10, 2012 5:27 am Subject: [mukto-mona] FW: "Bringing Bangladeshi Angle to Assamese Ethnic Conflict is Disservice to the Nation"
 
From: sukla.sen@gmail.com Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 16:11:01 +0530 Subject: [india-unity] "Bringing Bangladeshi Angle to Assamese Ethnic Conflict is Disservice to the Nation"  
Bringing Bangladeshi Angle to Assamese Ethnic Conflict is
Disservice to the Nation
V.K. Tripathi, IIT Delhi
           The ethnic violence between Bodos and Muslims in Bodo territorial region of Assam is a national calamity. It has taken a toll of 65 innocent lives (besides the scores of people missing) and rendered 4 lakh homeless. The first priority of sane polity and responsible government is to restore the trust between the warring groups, Bodos and Muslims, without the slightest of ill will against any of the communities and isolate miscreants from the masses. Muslims are poorer, have lost more lives and fled in larger numbers (up to 80%) but Bodos are no economic elite. The creation of Bodo Territorial Council (covering 4 districts – Kokrajhar, Chirang, Baxa and Udalguri) by the Center in 2003, has given a section of them an upper hand but masses of both the communities are in hardships. 
            I spent three days (August 3 to 5) in the area, visited relief camps – 2 Bodo camps in Kokrajhar (with 560 and 1500 people) , 1 Muslim camp in Kashipara (960 people), 1 Muslim camp in Dhubri (360 people) and 3 Muslim camps in Bilasipara (2000, 2500 and 3500 people), visited a Muslim village Bhadyagudi, a mixed Bodo-Muslim village Bhatipara and met a cross-section of people. I also met Deputy Commissioner (DC) of Kokrajhar Mr.  Jayant Narlikar, DC of Dhubri Mr. Kumud Kalita and Principal, Vice Principal and Librarian of Bhola Nath College, Dhubri.
            I saw no trace of Bagladeshi offensive in the conflict, so systematically and vigorously orchestrated by BJP and VHP, led by L.K. Advani, Tarun Vijay and Praveen Togadia. They are playing with the lives of people and poisoning atmosphere for future. Bangladeshi is more of an abuse to humiliate Muslims who are native Indians. There may be a few percent Bangladeshis (as a Rajvanshi ex-serviceman in rural Kokrajhar put it at 10%), but even these, in all likelihood are labourers and labourers are no exploiters but an exploited lot.  They need to be treated with dignity. All countries have legal and illegal migrants. USA has a very significant percentage of illegal Mexicans. But who engages them and benefits from their hard work?"- the business class, for cheap labour. USA is immensely more powerful than us but it could not force the Mexicans out. India has limited resources and can't afford to sustain work force from neighbouring countries, hence legal ways, commensurate with workers' dignity, must be employed to identify and deport them and to stop their migration (if at all there is any loop hole). As far as the language of Muslims in the area is concerned, there is strong historical reason for it.  Kokrajhar district borders with West Bengal and Dhubri with Bangladesh. 100-150 years ago British tea planters brought labourers from Bengal where Muslims were a predominant landless work force. Thus they speak Bengali. One more observation. In 1971 India welcomed lakhs of Hindu-Muslim refugees as a part of strategy on Bangladesh. Many of them overstayed.
            The current conflict developed as a chain event. Miscreants killed two Muslims on July 6. On July 19, a prominent Muslim suffered bullet injuries and a mob killed 4 Bodos, Subsequently sporadic killings of Muslims and display of fire power by Bodo elements, created a frightening atmosphere, forcing people to flee their homes. In Muslim dominated areas Bodos were made to flee. Once people fled, many of their homes were looted and put on fire.  Most camps, having over 2.5 lakh Muslim refugees, are located in Dhubri district.  This district with 80% Muslim population suffered no loss of life  Bodos from six villages had to flee to Kokrajhar.
            Bodo insurgents have carried a long drawn violent struggle for separate Bodoland. In 2003 Center created BTAD (Bodoland Territorial Autonomous Districts) giving substantial authority to Bodos (about 35 seats in the 40 member BTC Council). This created a wedge between them and other communities (Muslims, Santhals and Rajvanshis) who have a much larger share in population. Many insurgent groups surrendered their arms but some still have them.  Disarming them is a major responsibility of the state.
            All relief camps are facing severe hardships. The Muslim camps look even more dejected and worried, besides being poorer.  On August 5 as I was sitting with people in a camp in Bilasipara when Roja Aftar time arrived, I noted that they had only one bucket of dates and biscuit packets for aftaar for 2000 people. On behalf of Sadbhav Mission I offered them 1000 rupees to purchase additional dates. Same was the scene in another camp. At night often there is load shedding for several hours and these camps plunge into darkness besides exposing them to mosquito bite. People cook their own food from the ration (rice, pulses and oil) provided by the government and vegetables provided by local support or NGOs. In most places people of all the communities are coming forward to extend support. Despite heavy odds people are at peace. I wish they had a creative engagement. They could be given some training or exposure in relevant trades. Students can be given tutorial sessions, game sessions or could go for jogging.
            Mine was a short visit that began with my arrival in Guwahati at 7 AM. From the airport I took bus to train station. At 9:45 I took North East Express and got down at Kokrajhar at 1:20 PM. I walked through the city and then took a tempo to Kashipara (8 km away). I visited a Muslim camp and walked 3 km to visit two villages. At 8 PM I met the DC. By that time curfew had started hence I stayed in the circuit house in a awesome room for Rs. 130. Next morning (August 4) at 7 AM, I walked to Bodo camp Swrang M.E. High School. People were nice. Some got annoyed when I mentioned Nellie massacre. From there I took tempo, minibus and bus to reach Dhubri by 12 noon. I walked to a relief camp and talked to people for one hour. This interaction was heartening. From there I went to Bholanath college. At 3:15 PM I met the DC and then left for Bilasipara. During 5 to 8:15 PM I visited 3 camps. Then took shelter in ABI hotel (for Rs. 250). It gave me the feeling of hardships faced by camp people as there was no light and mosquitoes were in abundance.   
            At 6 AM on August 5 I left for Kashipara and from there to Kokrajhar. I visted the Commerce College Bodo camp. People treated me with warmth and showed appreciation for peace efforts. At 12 noon I took Kamrup express to Guwahati. After reaching there I called some friends and left for the airport en route to Delhi.                       
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: vipin tripathi <tripathivipin@yahoo.co.in> Date: Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 1:17 AM
-- Peace Is Doable









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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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