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Tuesday, September 25, 2012

Re: [mukto-mona] ‘A Man among men...’ -- Swami Vivekananda



"Lopsided judgments" are to consider the qualities alone, and to forget the drawbacks.

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 8:03 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 


Some people love antithesis; they are contrarians. To them Rabindra Nath, Bankim, Vivekananda, etc. are overblown figures and needed to be reevaluated. There is something wrong with this thought pattern.  These people are giving much more weight to the negatives than positives in the lives of those iconic figures. Such lopsided judgments should not be taken seriously.

Jiten Roy   
--- On Tue, 9/25/12, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] 'A Man among men...' -- Swami Vivekananda
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com" <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 9:08 PM


 
So, who would you consider as not a overblown icon according to your criteria? Any name?
-SD

 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] 'A Man among men...' -- Swami Vivekananda

 
Rishi Bankim, however, irrelevant here, was not much more than another overblown icon.

On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> wrote:
 
           Thanks for the mention of this important book.  I have not read the book, but I have heard Narasingha Shil present a pre-publication paper at the Bengal Studies Conference (held that year at SUNY) on Vivekananda which convincingly exploded all the myths surrounding this con-man god-man.  Narasingha is a great iconoclast, intelligent and funny, and a terrific 'adda-baj'. We became friends, and at another BS Conference he presented another hit at another Bengali icon -- Rishi Bankim.  I later told him that, unlike Vivekananda, Bankim did not consciously or dishonestly create his own Rishi image. His Rishi-ization and even the hinduization of Bande Mataram were done by communal politics long after his death. Narasingha accepted my explanations, and later, when he read my own completed article criticizing Gauri Vishwanathan book with evidences cited from Bankim, he praised it profusely in an e-mail,  and stopped criticizing Bankim.

               Farida Majid
        


To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: kamalctgu@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 07:45:37 +0600
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] 'A Man among men...' -- Swami Vivekananda


 
One should read "Vivekananda Reassessed" - Narasingha P. Shil [Susquehenna University Press] to have a better understanding of him.


On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 5:42 AM, Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

'A Man among men...' -- Swami Vivekananda

120 years on, Swami Vivekananda's fiery speech at the Parliament of Religions is still fresh in
memory.This month marks the 120th anniversary of Swami Vivekananda's participation in the Parliament of Religions at Chicago.

It is appropriate to celebrate this great event through the month for a simple reason. While it is generally well-known that young Vivekananda had to sleep on a sidewalk in Chicago before being discovered and given a place to stay, what is less known is that his first lecture there on September 11, 1893, catapulted him to such a great stature that the organisers had to invite him to address the gathering every day during that fortnight!

A participant of that conference said, "When the audience was bored with the tedious eloquence of some other speakers and became restive, the president of the conference found that the best means to get them into order was to announce that Vivekananda would be the next speaker again!"

Among those present at that conference, Dr. Annie Besant later commented, "Off the platform, his figure was instinct with pride of country, pride of race – the representative of the oldest of living religions… India was not to be shamed before the hurrying arrogant West by this her envoy and her son. He brought her message, he spoke in her name, and the herald remembered the dignity of the royal land whence he came. Purposeful, virile, strong, he stood out, a man among men, able to hold his own. On the platform, another side came out. The dignity and the inborn sense of worth and power still were there, but all was subdued to the exquisite beauty of the spiritual message which he had brought, to the sublimity of that matchless truth of the East which is the heart and life of India…The huge multitude hung upon his words, not a syllable must be lost, not a cadence missed!"

Profound impact

An agnostic-turned-monk, Swami Vivekananda accomplished in a life span of 39 years what is probably not possible for anyone living even for a couple of centuries. His contribution was not obscurantist revival but rejuvenating renaissance of Hinduism and the Indian ethos. His deep sense of nationalism had a profound impact on the Freedom Struggle. His worldview and success in the Western world revived India's self esteem in the context of the depressed mood of enslavement. Suddenly, here was a new Indian spiritual leader known to the entire literate world.

His admirers included the likes of Leo Tolstoy and Max Mueller. Swamiji's personality combined the qualities of the Buddha, Mahavir, Adi Sankara, Ramanuja, and Chaitanya in a manner of syncretism. He was a great musician even as a teenager, attracting hundreds of people to his singing, a tradition which he continued all his life.

Even his religious ideas were radical. He once declared, "I do not know the 30 crore deities of our pantheon. But I know the millions of my suffering fellowmen who are my gods to be served." He epitomised this sentiment on the lines "Nara Seva is Narayana Seva" (Service to Man is Service to God). He did not believe in salvation by constantly running away from the world to meditate in caves; he believed that such enlightenment was only a means to serve his fellowmen. So he created an Order of Monks at the Ramakrishna Math and Mission, who are dedicated to the uplift of the downtrodden through education, health care and such other activities. He laid the foundation for communal and religious harmony, expanding on the principle his Guru had demonstrated.

The Tamil connection
How can anyone belonging to Tamil Nadu forget the unique relationship this part of the country had with a young Bengali saint who became the world-renowned Swami Vivekananda? It is well known that as a parivrajakacharya (wandering monk), Vivekananda reached Kanyakumari, swam across the sea, reached a rock and sat there in meditation for a few days. Although he had heard that a World Parliament of Religions was to take place in Chicago and a few people in Western India had suggested that he should participate, he could not make up his mind for long.

It was during his visit to Tamil Nadu that he decided to accept the challenge and proceed to America. Even then, he was debating with himself on whether he was genuinely interested in representing an ancient tradition of spirituality or was perhaps giving room to his ego to project himself. The enthusiasm of his disciples in Tamil Nadu led by Alasingar of Tiruvallikeni in Chennai helped him make up his mind.

The decision was clinched when a letter of blessings came from Sri Sarada Mata in Kolkata urging him to proceed to Chicago. The funds collected for his trip by his Tamil devotees became the nucleus which was strengthened by the generosity of the Maharaja of Ketri.

Half a century after the Chicago lecture, Rajaji said in simple words, "Swami Vivekananda saved Hinduism and saved India. But for him we would have lost our religion and would not have gained our freedom. We therefore owe everything to Swami Vivekananda. May his faith, his courage and his wisdom ever inspire us so that we may keep safe the treasure we have received from him!"

(Dr. S. Krishnaswamy is a documentary and television film maker and founder of the recently launched Tamil/English Heritage Channel, KRISHNA-TV.)

http://www.thehindu.com/arts/history-and-culture/article3917843.ece?homepage=true#.UFskBIOkrlI.email


Thanks & Regards,


Sudhir Srinivasan
B.Arch, MSc.CPM, Dip.ID, Dip.CAD, Dip.PM, Dip.LD
| Architect |












__._,_.___


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****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] ‘A Man among men...’ -- Swami Vivekananda



Read any standard biography on Vivekananda, and stop posting internet materials like a Muslim fundamentalist does in this forum.  Such writings are worth no more than toilet papers.  No saint sues his mother for a share in paternal property, as Vivekananda did.  But many follow his example of getting laid with female devotee.

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 6:38 AM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

It sounds pretty odd to me that an newly graduated young man from an aristocratic family faced starvation because he could not find a suitable employment? Who has been feeding you with such information?
-SD


 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 1:33 AM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] 'A Man among men...' -- Swami Vivekananda

 
"All doors were open to him when he graduated from Calcutta University."

 - Not really, he tried to find an employment, and didn't find any.  Starvation and other deprivation was a common experience to him.  He visited Dakshineswar to have a free meal.  Ultimately, he found out, no business is as good as the one with religion.  He wasn't much of a saint.  His relation with Sister Nivedita had been questioned during his lifetime by the monks of his own congregation.  Besides, he used to brag about relishing non-traditional food forbidden among his coreligionists.  Though there is no scope of avatar, according to the Veda, he declared Ramakrishna as the best of them.

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
Rishi Bankim, however, irrelevant here, was not much more than another overblown icon.


On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> wrote:
 
           Thanks for the mention of this important book.  I have not read the book, but I have heard Narasingha Shil present a pre-publication paper at the Bengal Studies Conference (held that year at SUNY) on Vivekananda which convincingly exploded all the myths surrounding this con-man god-man.  Narasingha is a great iconoclast, intelligent and funny, and a terrific 'adda-baj'. We became friends, and at another BS Conference he presented another hit at another Bengali icon -- Rishi Bankim.  I later told him that, unlike Vivekananda, Bankim did not consciously or dishonestly create his own Rishi image. His Rishi-ization and even the hinduization of Bande Mataram were done by communal politics long after his death. Narasingha accepted my explanations, and later, when he read my own completed article criticizing Gauri Vishwanathan book with evidences cited from Bankim, he praised it profusely in an e-mail,  and stopped criticizing Bankim.

               Farida Majid
        


To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: kamalctgu@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 07:45:37 +0600
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] 'A Man among men...' -- Swami Vivekananda


 
One should read "Vivekananda Reassessed" - Narasingha P. Shil [Susquehenna University Press] to have a better understanding of him.


On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 5:42 AM, Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

'A Man among men...' -- Swami Vivekananda

120 years on, Swami Vivekananda's fiery speech at the Parliament of Religions is still fresh in
memory.This month marks the 120th anniversary of Swami Vivekananda's participation in the Parliament of Religions at Chicago.

It is appropriate to celebrate this great event through the month for a simple reason. While it is generally well-known that young Vivekananda had to sleep on a sidewalk in Chicago before being discovered and given a place to stay, what is less known is that his first lecture there on September 11, 1893, catapulted him to such a great stature that the organisers had to invite him to address the gathering every day during that fortnight!

A participant of that conference said, "When the audience was bored with the tedious eloquence of some other speakers and became restive, the president of the conference found that the best means to get them into order was to announce that Vivekananda would be the next speaker again!"

Among those present at that conference, Dr. Annie Besant later commented, "Off the platform, his figure was instinct with pride of country, pride of race – the representative of the oldest of living religions… India was not to be shamed before the hurrying arrogant West by this her envoy and her son. He brought her message, he spoke in her name, and the herald remembered the dignity of the royal land whence he came. Purposeful, virile, strong, he stood out, a man among men, able to hold his own. On the platform, another side came out. The dignity and the inborn sense of worth and power still were there, but all was subdued to the exquisite beauty of the spiritual message which he had brought, to the sublimity of that matchless truth of the East which is the heart and life of India…The huge multitude hung upon his words, not a syllable must be lost, not a cadence missed!"

Profound impact

An agnostic-turned-monk, Swami Vivekananda accomplished in a life span of 39 years what is probably not possible for anyone living even for a couple of centuries. His contribution was not obscurantist revival but rejuvenating renaissance of Hinduism and the Indian ethos. His deep sense of nationalism had a profound impact on the Freedom Struggle. His worldview and success in the Western world revived India's self esteem in the context of the depressed mood of enslavement. Suddenly, here was a new Indian spiritual leader known to the entire literate world.

His admirers included the likes of Leo Tolstoy and Max Mueller. Swamiji's personality combined the qualities of the Buddha, Mahavir, Adi Sankara, Ramanuja, and Chaitanya in a manner of syncretism. He was a great musician even as a teenager, attracting hundreds of people to his singing, a tradition which he continued all his life.

Even his religious ideas were radical. He once declared, "I do not know the 30 crore deities of our pantheon. But I know the millions of my suffering fellowmen who are my gods to be served." He epitomised this sentiment on the lines "Nara Seva is Narayana Seva" (Service to Man is Service to God). He did not believe in salvation by constantly running away from the world to meditate in caves; he believed that such enlightenment was only a means to serve his fellowmen. So he created an Order of Monks at the Ramakrishna Math and Mission, who are dedicated to the uplift of the downtrodden through education, health care and such other activities. He laid the foundation for communal and religious harmony, expanding on the principle his Guru had demonstrated.

The Tamil connection
How can anyone belonging to Tamil Nadu forget the unique relationship this part of the country had with a young Bengali saint who became the world-renowned Swami Vivekananda? It is well known that as a parivrajakacharya (wandering monk), Vivekananda reached Kanyakumari, swam across the sea, reached a rock and sat there in meditation for a few days. Although he had heard that a World Parliament of Religions was to take place in Chicago and a few people in Western India had suggested that he should participate, he could not make up his mind for long.

It was during his visit to Tamil Nadu that he decided to accept the challenge and proceed to America. Even then, he was debating with himself on whether he was genuinely interested in representing an ancient tradition of spirituality or was perhaps giving room to his ego to project himself. The enthusiasm of his disciples in Tamil Nadu led by Alasingar of Tiruvallikeni in Chennai helped him make up his mind.

The decision was clinched when a letter of blessings came from Sri Sarada Mata in Kolkata urging him to proceed to Chicago. The funds collected for his trip by his Tamil devotees became the nucleus which was strengthened by the generosity of the Maharaja of Ketri.

Half a century after the Chicago lecture, Rajaji said in simple words, "Swami Vivekananda saved Hinduism and saved India. But for him we would have lost our religion and would not have gained our freedom. We therefore owe everything to Swami Vivekananda. May his faith, his courage and his wisdom ever inspire us so that we may keep safe the treasure we have received from him!"

(Dr. S. Krishnaswamy is a documentary and television film maker and founder of the recently launched Tamil/English Heritage Channel, KRISHNA-TV.)

http://www.thehindu.com/arts/history-and-culture/article3917843.ece?homepage=true#.UFskBIOkrlI.email


Thanks & Regards,


Sudhir Srinivasan
B.Arch, MSc.CPM, Dip.ID, Dip.CAD, Dip.PM, Dip.LD
| Architect |













__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] ‘A Man among men...’ -- Swami Vivekananda




Some people love antithesis; they are contrarians. To them Rabindra Nath, Bankim, Vivekananda, etc. are overblown figures and needed to be reevaluated. There is something wrong with this thought pattern.  These people are giving much more weight to the negatives than positives in the lives of those iconic figures. Such lopsided judgments should not be taken seriously.

Jiten Roy   
--- On Tue, 9/25/12, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] 'A Man among men...' -- Swami Vivekananda
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com" <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 9:08 PM

 
So, who would you consider as not a overblown icon according to your criteria? Any name?
-SD

 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] 'A Man among men...' -- Swami Vivekananda

 
Rishi Bankim, however, irrelevant here, was not much more than another overblown icon.

On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> wrote:
 
           Thanks for the mention of this important book.  I have not read the book, but I have heard Narasingha Shil present a pre-publication paper at the Bengal Studies Conference (held that year at SUNY) on Vivekananda which convincingly exploded all the myths surrounding this con-man god-man.  Narasingha is a great iconoclast, intelligent and funny, and a terrific 'adda-baj'. We became friends, and at another BS Conference he presented another hit at another Bengali icon -- Rishi Bankim.  I later told him that, unlike Vivekananda, Bankim did not consciously or dishonestly create his own Rishi image. His Rishi-ization and even the hinduization of Bande Mataram were done by communal politics long after his death. Narasingha accepted my explanations, and later, when he read my own completed article criticizing Gauri Vishwanathan book with evidences cited from Bankim, he praised it profusely in an e-mail,  and stopped criticizing Bankim.

               Farida Majid
        


To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: kamalctgu@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 07:45:37 +0600
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] 'A Man among men...' -- Swami Vivekananda


 
One should read "Vivekananda Reassessed" - Narasingha P. Shil [Susquehenna University Press] to have a better understanding of him.


On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 5:42 AM, Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

'A Man among men...' -- Swami Vivekananda

120 years on, Swami Vivekananda's fiery speech at the Parliament of Religions is still fresh in
memory.This month marks the 120th anniversary of Swami Vivekananda's participation in the Parliament of Religions at Chicago.

It is appropriate to celebrate this great event through the month for a simple reason. While it is generally well-known that young Vivekananda had to sleep on a sidewalk in Chicago before being discovered and given a place to stay, what is less known is that his first lecture there on September 11, 1893, catapulted him to such a great stature that the organisers had to invite him to address the gathering every day during that fortnight!

A participant of that conference said, "When the audience was bored with the tedious eloquence of some other speakers and became restive, the president of the conference found that the best means to get them into order was to announce that Vivekananda would be the next speaker again!"

Among those present at that conference, Dr. Annie Besant later commented, "Off the platform, his figure was instinct with pride of country, pride of race – the representative of the oldest of living religions… India was not to be shamed before the hurrying arrogant West by this her envoy and her son. He brought her message, he spoke in her name, and the herald remembered the dignity of the royal land whence he came. Purposeful, virile, strong, he stood out, a man among men, able to hold his own. On the platform, another side came out. The dignity and the inborn sense of worth and power still were there, but all was subdued to the exquisite beauty of the spiritual message which he had brought, to the sublimity of that matchless truth of the East which is the heart and life of India…The huge multitude hung upon his words, not a syllable must be lost, not a cadence missed!"

Profound impact

An agnostic-turned-monk, Swami Vivekananda accomplished in a life span of 39 years what is probably not possible for anyone living even for a couple of centuries. His contribution was not obscurantist revival but rejuvenating renaissance of Hinduism and the Indian ethos. His deep sense of nationalism had a profound impact on the Freedom Struggle. His worldview and success in the Western world revived India's self esteem in the context of the depressed mood of enslavement. Suddenly, here was a new Indian spiritual leader known to the entire literate world.

His admirers included the likes of Leo Tolstoy and Max Mueller. Swamiji's personality combined the qualities of the Buddha, Mahavir, Adi Sankara, Ramanuja, and Chaitanya in a manner of syncretism. He was a great musician even as a teenager, attracting hundreds of people to his singing, a tradition which he continued all his life.

Even his religious ideas were radical. He once declared, "I do not know the 30 crore deities of our pantheon. But I know the millions of my suffering fellowmen who are my gods to be served." He epitomised this sentiment on the lines "Nara Seva is Narayana Seva" (Service to Man is Service to God). He did not believe in salvation by constantly running away from the world to meditate in caves; he believed that such enlightenment was only a means to serve his fellowmen. So he created an Order of Monks at the Ramakrishna Math and Mission, who are dedicated to the uplift of the downtrodden through education, health care and such other activities. He laid the foundation for communal and religious harmony, expanding on the principle his Guru had demonstrated.

The Tamil connection
How can anyone belonging to Tamil Nadu forget the unique relationship this part of the country had with a young Bengali saint who became the world-renowned Swami Vivekananda? It is well known that as a parivrajakacharya (wandering monk), Vivekananda reached Kanyakumari, swam across the sea, reached a rock and sat there in meditation for a few days. Although he had heard that a World Parliament of Religions was to take place in Chicago and a few people in Western India had suggested that he should participate, he could not make up his mind for long.

It was during his visit to Tamil Nadu that he decided to accept the challenge and proceed to America. Even then, he was debating with himself on whether he was genuinely interested in representing an ancient tradition of spirituality or was perhaps giving room to his ego to project himself. The enthusiasm of his disciples in Tamil Nadu led by Alasingar of Tiruvallikeni in Chennai helped him make up his mind.

The decision was clinched when a letter of blessings came from Sri Sarada Mata in Kolkata urging him to proceed to Chicago. The funds collected for his trip by his Tamil devotees became the nucleus which was strengthened by the generosity of the Maharaja of Ketri.

Half a century after the Chicago lecture, Rajaji said in simple words, "Swami Vivekananda saved Hinduism and saved India. But for him we would have lost our religion and would not have gained our freedom. We therefore owe everything to Swami Vivekananda. May his faith, his courage and his wisdom ever inspire us so that we may keep safe the treasure we have received from him!"

(Dr. S. Krishnaswamy is a documentary and television film maker and founder of the recently launched Tamil/English Heritage Channel, KRISHNA-TV.)

http://www.thehindu.com/arts/history-and-culture/article3917843.ece?homepage=true#.UFskBIOkrlI.email


Thanks & Regards,


Sudhir Srinivasan
B.Arch, MSc.CPM, Dip.ID, Dip.CAD, Dip.PM, Dip.LD
| Architect |











__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] Greetings from Pakistan on World Peace Day!!!



As long as people do not use violence against another religion, I do not see any problem. Banning free speech is possible only in totalitarian and some autocratic states. No matter how much it hurts, a true democracy has to put up with this kind of freedom. The system is not perfect but I would rather choose to live in the US than Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.

To be honest with you, the whole thing has nothing to do with insulting Islam. It is rather a manifestation of how the kool-aid, Islam has been failing in many Islamic countries to lift its people from the miseries. The anger needs to be channeled towards some one or certain countries for some good reasons. If I were an incompetent leader of any of these Muslim majority countries, I too would want people to protest against the US. The question is why you do not see these kinds of violent protests in Turkey? They must be doing something right?
-SD


 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Greetings from Pakistan on World Peace Day!!!

 
While like most members in this forum, I am AGAINST any violence in the name of Islam (Related to the u-tube clip production). Having said that, I felt the whole world ALSO took note, how a pure "Hate-speech" was considered as "Free speech" some western countries.

For the west, it was an easy sell to tell the "World" Iraq war was a "Mistake" [ Which destroyed a country who did NOTHING against America and murdered at least 5,00,000 innocent civilians] but it is hard to imagine some tiny faction of global Muslim population reacted disproportionately against a slander produced by an US criminal. US authorities do have many excuses (For the scams he ran and for running a hate-filled campaign) to detain this person but "Allowed" this home made amateur clip to surface despite plea by global Muslim population.

Such double standard is against "American spirit and laws" of the U.S.A. Free speech is protected but hate speech is NOT.

While I blame on angry mob for any violence they caused, it would be unfair not to mention the protection given to this "hate filled movie". From start to end, it was a hit piece against Muslims and links to US election (To put the sitting president in an awkward situation) is beginning to  surface.

I am glad that, recent polls indicated this "Plot" did not pay off against president Obama. As I said, prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was a good man full of mercy for all of humanity. Few comments or clip is not likely to do much damage to him.

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Sep 24, 2012 6:15 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Greetings from Pakistan on World Peace Day!!!

 
I was rather sarcastic with my comment. However, the whole world has been watching these self mutilation and making up their mind about Islam and it's violent followers even they are a 'tiny' minority.
-SD
 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Greetings from Pakistan on World Peace Day!!!

 
Setting fire in your own houses has become the norm of any Islamic protests? The filmmaker is an a-hole but he has proven the point beyond any ambiguity.
-SD

>>>>>>>>>>> Setting fire on house in our country has NOTHING "Islamic" in it. However I felt you asked a very valid question here.

We can go a little deeper on the issue here. In our sub-continent this has been a way to "Protest" when we were a colony of the "British Raj". Unfortunately our political leaders (Islamic, communists, BAL, BNP etc) practice destruction to "Protest" on behalf of our people!!

I honestly don't know beside political leaders who else get benefit out of this. I have a friend who is atheist and today unfortunately one brick broke parts of his car. I don't think it will be easy for him to look positively on Islam as he was a victim of some overenthusiastic supporter of "Hartal".

This type of hartal in the name of Islam does NOTHING to promote Islam rather validates complaints AGAINST Islam. Islam is not a fragile faith neither is reputation of the last messenger of Allah Muhammad bin Abdallah (PBUH). So let the envious people speak evil but the truth will prevail at the end.

The only hopeful sign I have seen is a lot of Muslims including leaders (Grand imams) of many countries asked Muslims to stay away from violence and to protest "Peacefully". Muslims are passionate about our faith and our last messenger Muhammad (PBUH) but we HAVE to learn to express our feelings non-violently.  

Going back to the original question, this has been norm of every "Political" protest in Bangladesh. Just look up at Newspapers and you will see. NO matter which political party are in power, the opposition and sitting party are too quick to use their gangs against people and protesters. This colonial mind set is the real barrier.

Shalom!



-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: bangladesh-progressives <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Sep 22, 2012 11:43 pm
Subject: [mukto-mona] Greetings from Pakistan on World Peace Day!!!

 
Setting fire in your own houses has become the norm of any Islamic protests? The filmmaker is an a-hole but he has proven the point beyond any ambiguity.
-SD



Greetings from Pakistan on World Peace Day
Shyema Sajjad | 24 hours ago
85
Greetings from Pakistan on World Peace Day. We have a lot of events and activities planned for today; unfortunately none of them will be sending across the message of peace. Our children, through whom we could portray a peaceful message using crayons and doves, are at home today and could not go to school. Those who don't go to school anyway are being coerced by their adult relatives to spend the day out on the streets with them to burn tyres.
Our parks and other public locations where we could have held some nice peace rallies and shown off our creative skills through artistic placards have all been sealed shut due to violent protests which we are currently being conducted to show our love for our Holy Prophet. Sounds complicated? Shouldn't be – almost everyone is catching up to our unique Pakistani mentality now.
No peace concerts planned here either because music wouldn't be an appropriate indulgence on this day and also because we may get killed on our way there by a stray bullet. Sorry, to explain this better: yes, our policemen are firing stray shots right now to ensure there is peace in the cities.
While expressing love for our Holy Prophet some people in Peshawar got carried away and set fire to some cinemas, so the families planning to go to the movies on this peaceful day can do so no more as the seats will be charred and the screens burnt.
Moreover, our leaders cannot come out to address the public on World Peace Day because there is too much violence on the streets so they have instead given the adventurers of Pakistan a field day so that they can do whatever they want. This freedom given by the government today is being enjoyed by thousands who have taken the country hostage because they are angry at the foreign filmmaker who disrespected the Holy Prophet and portrayed Muslims as violent people.
Burning candles and having vigils is too modest a gesture to share with the world so instead you will see my countrymen setting their own property on fire because this will teach the horrid filmmaker a lesson never to mess with us again. We are capable of setting this whole country on fire and so what if it only damages and destroys our own assets – at least the whole world will know that peace can not be taken for granted.
Speaking of peace, most crowds seem to be thronging towards the US Consulates today. This may be because the US President had been the recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize and what better activity on World Peace Day than to pay respects to the peace prize winner – but then again, this could also be because of the horrid filmmaker who has given us another reason to say 'Go America Go' (note: this may sound contradictory but this slogan is actually not chanted in a complimentary way).
Our children are missing school day after day, our businesses are suffering losses worth billions, our healthcare is in shambles and our security situation is deteriorating every hour, but our faith remains strong – turn on your television and you'll be able to see that not even a distraction like World Peace Day can turn us away from our first and foremost duty – although, I do believe Pakistan playing a cricket match today would have altered the situation quite a lot … unless the cricketers would decide to wear black armbands in protest and hence inspire the crowds watching to react Pakistani style.
Alas, all is not lost for tucked away from the madness of the country I imagine our president releasing a dove or two of his own … you know, just to emphasise his agenda for peace.
 
 

The writer is the Deputy Editor at Dawn.com


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"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS






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Re: [mukto-mona] Getting offended on God’s behalf



The tree frog reacts again!  "Who is in the divine alcove?  - I didn't swallow the banana"  When Mr. Chakrabarty finds a fundamentalist, a closet fundamentalist, and even a Hindu liberal Muslims, had I not every reason to question his perception?

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 7:00 AM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

You sound like another Bangladeshi midget, Shahadat Hussaini, who is more interested to check people's dicks rather than focusing on the focal point of a discussion. What would be your problem if I were a Muslim, Hindu or a tree frog?
-SD  

 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 1:37 AM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Getting offended on God's behalf

 
Mr. Chakrabarty, not every soul hiding under a Muslim name is a Muslim.  Be aware of that.  And not everyone has the same degree of 'secularism' in him/her.

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 7:18 AM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
I see huge protests by moderate Muslims. They don't go and clash with the fanatic mob but they speak and write against them. Think about yourself, Farida apa, Mr. Q. Rahman, and many others even in this forum. I think Muslims like you are the majority. The article you have forwarded has been written by a Muslim. 
Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 23, 2012, at 6:47 PM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:

 
It is rather a duty of majority (moderates) to stand up against the lunatics and show their place. That is not happening in Islamic countries. I have not seen any counter demonstration to denounce this BS violence on behalf of prophet. Only in Bengazi, Libya, people have evicted some thugs from their neighborhood. That is all! And, now, some idiots/leaders would like to have universal blasphemy law for their sacred people? I do not know who will be included in that list? It sounds pretty moronic to me.
-SD

 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Getting offended on God's behalf

 
It is really a good piece. The author is the daughter of a woman who has performed Hajj 12 times. Yet she will not get angry that she would go and kill 4 people. Shazia is right: it is always a minority group that gets angry. The majority even does not even know what is going on. This is the very minority that acts as the instigator and fishes in the troubled waters to materialize their political agenda. The other day I made exactly this comment in connection with Taslima to support Prof. Das's observation that initially Lajja did not have any repercussion. It was blown out of proportion by the propaganda and acts of a minority.  Sangh Parivar made it worse. 
As we can see, the short video is simply strengthening the hands of the fanatic and militant Islamists. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 22, 2012, at 5:34 PM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:

 
Shazia Mirza is a great South Asian/English comedian! This will be a great material for her next stand-up. She is hilarious on stage!
-SD 


A video clip from Shazia's show in Stockholm. Introduction is in Swedish but rest of it in English.



Getting offended on God's behalf
Shazia Mirza | 8 hours ago
20
The alarm went off on Monday morning, the radio came on and all I heard was, "It's been described as the most serious insult to Islam ever! People have been killed, and protests are mounting."
I thought 'What's happened? Has Satanic Verses been turned into a cartoon?' I switched the TV on and heard people talking about a film.
I had to rush and get on the tube, as I walked into the carriage everyone was reading a newspaper with this same story on the front, I heard one man say to his friend, "They're offended again", his friend replied, "What's new?"
I watched the film, and it's the most serious insult to film making ever. It is a badly made, amateur pantomime of a film. Clearly a joke in itself.  But what is even more outrageous – is the reaction to it.
My mum is religious. Very religious, fanatical about her religion. She's done Hajj 12 times, prays all day and fasts even when it's not Ramazan. If she saw the film she wouldn't like it, but would she go and shoot four people because of it? No way. Because she is a rational, open-minded human being, and she's so religious she doesn't watch films, at least ones which don't include Omar Sharif.
God, whichever God you believe in, is all knowing, all forgiving, and all loving. God has seen it all, because he made it all. He made the blasphemers. God can't be attacked. So if you're offended on his behalf, you don't actually have enough faith in him.
It is fashionable to be offended, and predictable for certain people to be offended at anything from cartoons to films, jokes, books … what next? Food, hair colour?
Every idea, every belief has to be challenged because that's how the rational mind works. There has to be questioning and debate, and if your religion is strong enough, it will withstand that.
Blasphemy is important. If blasphemy laws ruled the world we'd still be living in caves, and we'd never had made any progress – some people still haven't. Blasphemy laws are the armour of the insecure. If you are unable to laugh at yourself as a religion or a culture, that culture is suffering from low self-esteem, and devolution. Blasphemy doesn't just apply to religion, but economically and socially as well.
Now, because of the way certain Muslims react to things that offend them, artists, writers, comedians, film makers all over the world are slowly being silenced because they are scared to say what they think; in case they end up dead. The East is taking away the West's democracy. I don't like the film, it is offensive and insulting, although the comments underneath it on YouTube are far more offensive, but if you truly believe in democracy you have to defend the right for it to be made.
It is always a minority that are offended, and they often react with irrational violence, some of them don't even know what they're reacting to; violence is all they know. It gives us all a bad name. And if they don't stop, I'll have to continue to get randomly searched at airports, being felt up by some strange woman, and not be able to take more than 100ml of moisturizer through customs.
I live in England. It is a democracy, not just because of the way we vote, but because of the way we think. A good working democracy treats minorities well, and has a view of religion that is accepting. Britain is a melting pot of many religions and cultures, which is what makes it so great.
The Muslim world needs to be open minded about religion; it is ridiculous, insulting in itself and anti-Islamic to call someone an infidel just because they don't agree with what you believe.
Murdering someone, anyone, is never justified but even more outrageous when over a flimsy book or a badly made film.
There is a war between the East and the West, the moderate and the extreme, the religious and the non-religious, the repressed and the free, the open minded and the closed minded. Ultimately the open minded will win. Those are the people, who are accepting and tolerant to other people's beliefs and opinions which is the fundamental basis of all religion and those are the right thinking, rational people you'd want to live next door to.
Don't kill me for writing this column; it's just an idea.
 

The author is an award winning stand-up comedian and writer. She has performed all over the world. A columnist for The Guardian UK, she was named Columnist of the Year at the prestigious PPA Awards. Find out more from her website.


 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS


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