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Monday, May 7, 2012

[mukto-mona] Re: `Killing Kafir' by Syed Kamran Mirza

learn quran and hadees properly, as you mentioned out of context, your thinking is limited to the circle.

may almighty Allah show you the right path.

regards
Masthan

--- In mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com, "Alternatif2000" wrote:
>
> `Killing Kafir' by Syed Kamran Mirza - www.ezboard.com
>
> Killing Kafir
>
> Syed Kamran Mirza
>
> In the theological dogmas of Islam there are plenty of unanswered questions
> to which most apologists play same old game of sidetracking and putting lame
> excuse to the ?out of context?, or ?faulty Quranic translations?. Among
> them, I like to discuss one question about which I have been
> asking/searching the truth for long time, but till today nobody could give
> me satisfactory answer. This is the question of ?killing/slaying? human
> being by another human being by the order of Almighty God! Several years
> back when I read Holy Quran from beginning to end, I was totally dismayed
> when I found Allah telling/advocating to ?kill? another human being by
> numerous Ayats. I could not conceive this idea of insisting by Allah to kill
> somebody. How come? Question which bothered me most is why an
> omnipotent/almighty God will ask for killing human being? Who knows, may be
> this advice by Allah to ?kill Kaffirs? is working as the main
> fuel/ingredients behind the very spirit of Islamic Jihad?helping create more
> and more Osama Bin laden and other potential terrorists?
>
> My father used to read Quran twice a day (after Fazr and before Magreb) with
> so much devotion until his death. One day I asked him if he (my father)
> understand what he was reciting with such a melody and devotions. My father?
> s answer was negative. My father did not understand a single word of what he
> was reciting daily. Now I can count how many thousands of times he uttered
> the word ?killing?, of course, with sweet melody. We can even count how many
> trillion trillion times this word of ?killing? is being uttered by devout
> Muslims throughout the whole world.
>
> Let me cite an example to illustrate this better: Say I am the owner of a
> flock of 100 Cattle. These hundred Cattle are mine, I am the sole owner, and
> by virtue/authority of my ownership, I have every right to do, what ever I
> want to do with these 100 Cattle. Now, if in the course of time, I find that
> some Cattle have become very destructive and wicked up to a degree that
> these Cattle are out of control. Then, I have two choices in front of me to
> handle these wicked Cattle: (a) tell other good and docile Cattle to kill
> those wicked and unruly Cattle by their sharp horns, or (b) because of my
> authority, I sell them or killed (Zabai kare khaeyya felba) those cattle and
> invite friends to a feast. Quite obviously, I will choose (b), and never
> will advocate poor Cattle to kill those wicked Cattle, right? But here in
> the God business of correcting wicked people, I really do not find any logic
> why Omnipotent God should ask human (who are less than Cattle to God) to
> kill other wicked humans. This problem of disobedient by some humans is so
> little problem for an Omnipotent/almighty Allah that, it should take only a
> wishful thinking for Him to correct all Kaffirs. Does any reader see any
> logic to it? So far, I could not get any logical/convincing answer from any
> apologists to this very dynamic question.
>
> I cannot believe that, God can really ask human being to kill/slay another
> human being! The center of my question is not the word ?killing,? but WHO
> actually is asking for ?Killing.? This ?WHO? is nobody but
> OMNIPOTENT/ALMIGHTY GOD. Is Allah telling/advocating to ?kill? another human
> being by numerous Qur?anic Ayats? I could not conceive this idea that Allah
> is insisting his creation to kill somebody who is also his creation.
> Question that bothered me the most is why an Omnipotent/Almighty and
> Merciful God will ask for killing human being. Why then He is called a
> Merciful? Omnipotent God is not like human being of flesh and blood that He
> will take revenge through others. Even the mother of a serial killer will
> not ask others to kill her son, rather she will ask for forgiveness. Is
> Almighty God crueler or weaker than the mother of a serial killer?
>
> Of course, if these killing orders (i.e., Ayats like: 9:5, 2.191, 5.33.or
> 2.193) have had come from Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself then, I would not
> ask this question. Because, Prophet Muhammad was also a human being of flesh
> and blood, and in need, he also can ask for necessary killings. Apologist?s
> example/comparisons with history of mankind --killing by American Civil War,
> battle of Kurukhetra or Hitler, Yahya Khan, Tikka Khan, Winston Churchill,
> etc., would fit here very well. Because, these are simply earthly (parthive)
> happenings and humans are not omnipotent/almighty by any standard. Human
> cannot achieve something simply by wishful thinking like an Omnipotent God.
> But God of course can achieve something simply by His wish. As we are told
> in Quran that, ?Of course if Allah (swt) wills He can create anything just
> by saying ?Qun? (Be) and it exists. Likewise Allah (swt) can destroy at
> will.? If we are to believe the text of preceding quotation by Maoulanas
> then we cannot find any validity of asking by God to kill anybody. God
> Himself can kill them by His killer Angel AZRAEL. Or, Omnipotent God simply
> can correct every anomaly by His wishes, period. He should not need anybody?
> s help.
>
> Another new question has generated by the Qur?anic Ayat quoted by most
> Apologists. That is, ?Let there be no compulsion in religion? (Quran-2:
> 256). This Ayat is used repeatedly by all apologists like a broken record to
> claim Islam?s tolerance to others, although, there are hundreds of Qur?anic
> Ayats and Sahih hadiths (which apologists hardly disclose) which prove
> otherwise. My humble questions here to all apologists are: What is the
> punishment of an apostate as per Islamic Sharia? Isn?t the punishment of an
> apostate is death by stoning? Why in Saudi Arabia all other religious
> activities except Islam are completely prohibited? Why very recently Saudi
> Government has closed Shiite Mosque in Saudi Arabia? Why then early
> propagators of Islam had to fight so many bloody battles both defensively
> and offensively?
>
> What is the difference between the code of King Hammurabi of Mesopotamia
> (2900 B.C): Killing for revenge, i. e., ?life for life, hand for hand, eye
> for eye, ears for ears, tooth for tooth and wounds equal for equal?, and the
> Allah?s Guidance of Qur?anic Ayat: 5:45, i.e. ?life for life, hand for hand,
> eye for eye, ear for ear, tooth for tooth and wounds equal for equal.? Do we
> see any similarities between the judgment of King Hammurabi (a human), and
> Omnipotent Allah? Here in this decree of judgement, who probably copied from
> whom?
>
> Most important and mysterious questions for us to ponder are: Why Muhammad
> (pbuh), the prophet of God, needed to insist/ask people to fight/kill fellow
> people violently? And why did he lure Islamic believers that they will get
> Jannat el-Ferdous if they kill kaffirs? Why on the other hand, another
> Prophet of the same God Jesus Christ said, ?He who live by the sword will
> die by the sword? or ?If you get slapped on your right cheek then give your
> left cheek for the another slap.? Why Jesus asked people to conquer the
> hearts of enemies by their love? Why did Mahatma Gandhi asked people not to
> attack/kill the enemies but to tolerate all tortures? Was Gandhi or Jesus a
> better person than the omnipotent who goes by the name Rahman-ur-Rahim (Kind
> and forgiving)?
>
> As a child, we were told by the clerics back home that Almighty Allah has
> 100 names. The two names show up side-by-side in the book Niam-ul-Qur?an (By
> Moulvi Mohammad Shamsul Huda) page 20. One of the names is Ya-Gaffaru (Oh,
> forgiver!). The other name mentioned next to it is Ya-Kah-haru (Oh, big
> punisher). The Mullahs of the world should know better that the Almighty
> couldn?t be both all at the same time. Whether we like it or not, Jesus
> seems to have opted for the forgiving part of Allah, whereas, our
> Payare-Nabi Mustafa Karim (pbuh) had shown his proclivity to mete out
> punishment and thus opting for the title Kah-haru. No wonder so many
> bystanders Arab had to be murdered in the broad daylight because they had
> their nagging doubts about the divinity of Muhammad (pbuh).
>
> The bottom line in this ongoing debate is the following: It would be quite
> unjust for the CREATOR to approve killing of his creations by his own
> creation. If He thinks that some creations are becoming unruly, and are
> deviating from the Seerut-al-Mustaquim, then, why can?t He come down from
> his Arash to this lowly place call Arda (Earth) and do the killing Himself?
> He most certainly has ever-ready Azrael under His arm. But could it be that
> poor Azrael is too tired doing his job from the time immemorial! In that
> case, Allah is very wise to tell us that we men should kill another fellow
> human being because in His infinite wisdom He thought we are the right
> persons for this job. What a cruel joke this Almighty is playing on us!
>




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[ALOCHONA] Avaaz movement







Avaaz is a global web movement to bring people-powered politics to decision-making everywhere.

Avaaz—meaning "voice" in several European, Middle Eastern and Asian languages—launched in 2007 with a simple democratic mission: organize citizens of all nations to close the gap between the world we have and the world most people everywhere want.

Avaaz empowers millions of people from all walks of life to take action on pressing global, regional and national issues, from corruption and poverty to conflict and climate change. Our model of internet organising allows thousands of individual efforts, however small, to be rapidly combined into a powerful collective force. (Read about results on the Highlights page.)

The Avaaz community campaigns in 15 languages, served by a core team on 6 continents and thousands of volunteers. We take action -- signing petitions, funding media campaigns and direct actions, emailing, calling and lobbying governments, and organizing "offline" protests and events -- to ensure that the views and values of the world's people inform the decisions that affect us all.

The Avaaz Way: How We Work
From technology, new nimbleness and flexibility
Previous international citizens' groups and social movements have had to build a constituency for each separate issue, year by year and country by country, in order to reach a scale that could make a difference.

Today, thanks to new technology and a rising ethic of global interdependence, that constraint no longer applies. Where other global civil society groups are composed of issue-specific networks of national chapters, each with its own staff, budget, and decision-making structure, Avaaz has a single, global team with a mandate to work on any issue of public concern--allowing campaigns of extraordinary nimbleness, flexibility, focus, and scale.

Avaaz's online community can act like a megaphone to call attention to new issues; a lightning rod to channel broad public concern into a specific, targeted campaign; a fire truck to rush an effective response to a sudden, urgent emergency; and a stem cell that grows into whatever form of advocacy or work is best suited to meet an urgent need.

Avaaz's priorities and power come from members
Each year, Avaaz sets overall priorities through all-member polls (See 2010 poll results here), and campaign ideas are polled and tested weekly to 10,000-member random samples—and only initiatives that find a strong response are taken to scale. Campaigns that do reach the full membership are then super-charged by, often, hundreds of thousands of Avaaz members taking part within days or even hours.

An ethic of servant leadership
Avaaz staff write email alerts to the Avaaz community the way that an aide briefs a president or prime minister: we have just a moment to convey the vital information the reader needs in order to decide whether to get involved, and the campaign hinges on that decision.

To make that moment of attention count, it's the job of staff to find ways that a few minutes, multiplied across huge numbers of people, can make a genuine difference on something that matters. Staff work with partners and experts to develop effective, member-driven campaign strategies; summarize them through clear and compelling alerts; and, if the Avaaz membership chooses to proceed, makes sure that the campaign is carried through—delivering petitions and members' messages, arranging member-funded ad campaigns, or whatever else is required.

In other words, Avaaz staff don't set an agenda and try to convince members to go along with it. It's closer to the opposite: staff listen to members and suggest actions they can take in order to affect the broader world. Small wonder, then, that many of our most successful campaigns are suggested first by Avaaz members themselves. And leadership is a critical part of member service: it takes vision and skill to find and communicate a way to build a better world.

We focus on tipping-point moments of crisis and opportunity
In the life of an issue or a cause, a moment sometimes arises when a decision must be made, and a massive, public outcry can suddenly make all the difference. Getting to that point can take years of painstaking work, usually behind the scenes, by dedicated people focusing on nothing else. But when the moment does come, and the sunlight of public attention floods in, the most crucial decisions go one way or another depending on leaders' perceptions of the political consequences of each option. It is in these brief windows of tremendous crisis and opportunity that the Avaaz community often makes its mark.

In any country or on any issue, those moments might come only once or twice a year. But because Avaaz can work in all countries and on all issues, these moments can crop up several times in a week.

Our member-funded model keeps us independent and accountable
Because Avaaz is wholly member-funded, democratic accountability is in our DNA. No corporate sponsor or government backer can insist that Avaaz shift its priorities to suit some external agenda—we simply don't accept funds from governments or corporations. (Read more about why it's worth donating to Avaaz here, and chip in here.)

Instead of fragmenting, we grow—united by values
Movements, coalitions, and organizations often fracture over time into many smaller pieces—or spend more and more of their time trying to hold warring factions together. At Avaaz, we recognize that people of good will often disagree on specifics; instead of straining for consensus, each of us simply decides whether to participate in any particular campaign.

But underlying Avaaz campaigns is a set of values—the conviction that we are all human beings first, and privileged with responsibilities to each other, to future generations, and to the planet. The issues we work on are particular expressions of those commitments. And so, over and over, Avaaz finds the same thing: that people who join the community through a campaign on one issue go on to take action on another issue, and then another. This is a source of great hope: that our dreams rhyme, and that, together, we can build the bridge from the world we have to the world we all want.

http://www.avaaz.org/en/


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[ALOCHONA] Water......water........water



 

 

<>_<>Water......water........water<>_<>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

 

 

 

 


  
   
 

 

 

     

The following will probably amaze and startle you. 

 
One glass of water shuts down midnight hunger pangs for almost 100% of the dieters studied in a University study: 


Lack of  water is the #1 trigger of daytime fatigue.
 
Preliminary research indicates that  8-10 glasses of water a day could significantly ease back and joint pain for up to 80% of sufferers. 


A mere 2% drop in body water can trigger fuzzy short-term memory, trouble with basic math, and difficulty focusing on the computer screen.
 
Drinking 5 glasses of water daily
decreases the risk of colon cancer by 45%, plus it can slash the risk of breast cancer by 79%, and one is 50% less likely to develop bladder cancer. 


Are you drinking the amount of water you should every day? 

(No kidding, all of the above are true....)




Now that I have your attention, go get another glass of  water! 



And......



Laugh often, long and loud... Laugh until you gasp for breath.  And if you have friends who make you laugh, spend lots of time with them. 
 



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[ALOCHONA] Murdered labour leader Aminul Islam



Murdered labour leader Aminul Islam



Bangladesh labor leader murdered two weeks after international rights victory

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/globalpost-blogs/rights/bangladesh-labor-leader-tortured-murdered

Killing of Bangladeshi Labor Organizer Signals an Escalation in Violence
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/10/world/asia/bangladeshi-labor-organizer-is-found-killed.html?_r=1

Labor Organizer Who Exposed Dangerous Working Conditions Is Tortured, Killed
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/labor-organizer-exposed-dangerous-working-conditions-tortured-killed/story?id=16101084

Bangladesh's Garment Workers Brave Deadly Fires To Make Luxury American Clothing
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/120430/bangladesh-garment-workers-brave-deadly-fires

Bangladesh: Investigate Killing of Labor Activist
http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/04/11/bangladesh-investigate-killing-labor-activist

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Re: [mukto-mona] Partition: Panorama of the Indian history and Human tragedies



Mr. Chakrabarty has little sense of history.  He has not learned that Jinnah was hand picked by the British years after he left India voluntarily to lead the League.  He received regular instructions from his masters from England on how to create dissent.  The ruling parties in the Muslim majority areas were coerced to join the league and thus came the Lahore resolution.  Pakistan was not created by the mass movement of the Muslims.  It was created to sustain the British business interest in India.  One should read Wali Khan's 'Facts are Facts' to understand the genesis of Pakistan.  Lord Mountbatten, the last Viceroy of India, said during the uproar created by the genocide in Bangladesh, " If we could forecast the fast rise of China as a regional power, we would have left India undivided".  This single sentence speaks volumes.  The British rulers left eighteen months ahead of planned departure.  Because, "If they waited that long, there would be no power to hand over" to paraphrase Raja Gopalacharya.

Among the achievement of 'independent' Bangladesh, notable is the fact that more minority property has been confiscated under 'the vested property act' than under 'the enemy property act' as it was known during the Pakistani rule.  The majority religious community has been given preference to settle in minority areas like Chittagong Hill Tracts.  No nation can be both secular and retain adherence to a religion.  Ours is no exception.  The mushroom growth of religious schools could lead us only to another dark age.  In 1947, undivided India had 2500 madrassahs, now Bangladesh alone has about twenty times as many.

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 4:20 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty's comments below have two irrational and untenable balancing acts.
 
His point #3 sounds like the complete reversal of the Hindu-Muslim ratios in the cities and towns of Pakistan was due to the Hindus leaving their home voluntarily, and that most of them were businessmen, teachers, doctors and lawyers.
 
The facts were: 1) Pakistan was hostile to the Hindus, that is why the Hindus left involuntarily; and 2) most of the Hindus (95% of the population) in a city like Karachi could not have been businessmen, teachers, doctors and lawyers; Pakistan has uprooted all kinds of Hindus from their home of centuries.
 
The first part of his point #4 sounds too disingenuous. He really needs to stop his absurd attempts of finding similar trends in India. From India, the Muslim migration to Pakistan happened only during the turbulent time of the partition. India has not been hostile to its Muslims over the last 65 years, and the migration of Muslims from India to Pakistan stopped shortly after the partition in 1947. The Muslim fanatics of Bangladesh, many of them pose as secular, talk about communal riots in India, really to justify what they have been doing in Pakistan and Bangladesh; what they do not talk about is that the system in India has kept the Muslims of that land strong enough even to start riots against the Hindus.
 
As for the educated people among the so-called schedule caste Hindu people in Bangladesh, Mr. Chakrabarty needs to learn that from among that class of people the ones that migrated to India got the opportunity to produce many more PhDs, doctors, engineers, etc. All indications are that they would have done far better without the partition of India in 1947. In spite of their foolish decision to join Pakistan in 1947, India even had a problem of unduly favoring the underclass, due to which many so-called high-caste Hindus would seek fraudulent means of getting schedule caste certificates for themselves, in order to get admitted to professional schools and in order to get jobs.
 
Nobody said, 'independence of Bangladesh has done us nothing'. Under any measurement, Bangladesh has been better than Pakistan for all kinds of its citizens. Bangladesh has improved the life of the Muslims of the land tremendously. Even the Hindus, in spite of the hatred and discrimination against them in Bangladesh, have done many times better than what could be expected had the land remained a part of Pakistan. However, as Mr. Chakrabarty seems to have pointed out (not very clearly), so far Bangladesh has failed to deliver the expectations of reductions of disparity, communalism and persecution against the non-Muslims of the land.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
===========================================================
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Partition: Panorama of the Indian history andhHuman tragedies,
 
1. Jinnah was stubborn, Nehru was impatient, and the British were in a hurry and left almost every thing in a mess. Gandhi was helpless and resorted to seclusion. And the greatest blunder in the history of India occurred. Immediately after partition, India was on the verge of being a failed state. Soldiers of South Indian orgin had to be deployed to contain the communal violence that erupted. Good thing is that India survived the turmoil thanks to the secular, efficient, and visionary elements in the party. Gandhi's assassination turned out to be a boon as Hindu fanatics got cornered in Indian politics for a while.
 
2. I agree that Hindu caste-ism had a lot to do with the panoramic change in India's political geography and demography. Jagajivan Ram wanted to defer independence of India by a decade. Jogen Mondal became the trump card for Muslim League and thereby created his own political death and personal tragedy (a good account has been provided in a recent historical novel titled "Barishaler Jogen Mondal" (about a 1100-page book) by a prominent WB writer named Debesh Roy. 
 
3. As regards complete reversal of Hindu-Muslim population ratios in Pakistan, I think it was generally true for for all cities and towns. The small town I was raised in had only a handful of Muslims (all professionals) even in late fifties. The reasons include the fact that businessmen, teachers, doctors, lawyeras, etc. came from caste Hindus. They started leaving for India creating a big vacuum.
 
4. Similar trends could be found in the Indian states (Bihar, Nagaland, etc.) which have indigenous people as the majority. That is one of the fruits of independence that less privileged sections of the population enjoyed. I do not have the proper statistics. But I see a huge number of educated people with highest degrees including PH.D among the scheduled caste population in Bangladesh. We sometimes get carried away with frustration and try to believe that independence of Bangladesh has done us nothing. If we look at the statistics, we should be convinced that economically, socially, and culturally, the Bengalis in general have achieved a lot. What has not happened is the reduction of disparity, corruption, communal-ism, persecutions, and injustice. Probably in some areas things have become worse.   
 
=====================================================
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Partition: Panorama of the Indian history andhHuman tragedies,
 
The bottom line really is that the Hindu-Muslim two-nation theory for the creation of Pakistan was probably the second biggest curse in the history of the Indian subcontinent; the first being the Hindu caste system. (I call the Hindu caste system the number one curse, because it has caused the most suffering of humanities in the subcontinent over a long period of time, even though it did not cause any big scale killing of people within any short period of time.)
 
Now, talking about the 1947 partition to create Pakistan in the subcontinent, just imagine Hyderabad and Junagadh as two other parts of Pakistan, land-locked by India, on top of the eastern and western parts being separated by more than a thousand miles of India. No sensible leadership could ask for such an arrangement of a country at that time.
 
Looking at Pakistan over the last 65 years, I would say, today no sensible person, Hindu or Muslim, would regret the fact that Hyderabad, Junagadh, Kashmir or Tripura was not part of Pakistan in 1947 or thereafter. Even the innocent Kashmiri Muslims who got wrongful treatments from the Indian security personnel would not want Pakistan; they would probably want an independent Kashmir.
 
While talking about the creation of Pakistan, we have to look at its after-effect that has been going on over the last 65 years. We can blame the British divide-and-conquer policy for the partition. However, we can not blame that for the reversal of the 95:5 Hindu-Muslim population ratio in Karachi within a few years after 1947, as Mr. Chakrabarty has noted below.
 
Creation of Pakistan was horrific; worse was the purpose of it, i.e., to do what Pakistan has been doing to the non-Muslims of that land over the last 65 years. It is a shame that too many intellectuals of the subcontinent, both Muslims and Hindus, are callously indifferent to the curse of Pakistan, with too many Muslims on the side of injustice and criminality.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
========================================
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 7:29 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Partition: Panorama of the Indian history andhHuman tragedies,
 
Some facts:
1. The notorious Radcliffe Boundary Award divided the Shikh community almost into two equal groups. The Award was irrational in many other areas also including Bengal.
2. 500,000 were killed in communal riots.
3. Involunary exchange of population caused displacement of 5.5 million each way across the new India-Pakistan border in the Punjab. In addition 400,000 Hindus left Sind  and over a million moved from East Pakistan to India. According to one recent NPR reporting, 95:5 Hindu-Muslim population ratio in Karachi was completely reversed in few years.
4. There were 362 states (major ones include Kashmir, Hyderabad, and Junagadh) which did not fall under the jurisdiction of the Radcliffe Boundary Award. British advised them to join either of the two newly created states---India and Pakistan. Both carrot (personal privileges and pensions free of income tax) and stick were used to oblige the princely states to take a decision. All except Kashmir (a mixed state although with majority Muslim population overall and the Hindu King), Hyderabad (Muslim ruler with 85% hindu population), and Junagadh (with Muslim Nawab with Hindu majority) failed to take a decision before independence. The Nawab of Junagadh opted for Pakistan. In a few weeks the Indian troops occupied the state. The Nizam of Hyderabad was stubborn and allowed an extremist organization called the Razakars to seize control. Indian govt. got the excuse and made it a part of India. The Hindu ruler of Kashmir was playing, but decided to join India as soon as a Pathan irregular force attacked Kashmir. With pressure from Pakistan Nehru agreed to a plebiscite which has never been materialized. 
5. I do not know when and under what conditions the Maharani of Tripura was negotiatiating with Pakistan for a possible accession to that country. Tripura is a land-locked country. I do not know what were her considerations behind joining Pakistan instead of India. That seems to be really an interesting case. As far as I know culturally the King of Tripura was more connected to Kolkata.       

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
 
Responding to QAR's comment, "People of Tripura has historical ties to Bengal and they are comfortable around us."
 
Could you elaborate on this? What is the basis of their 'historical ties' with the Muslim-majority East Bengal, over the Hindu-majority West Bengal? What have the Muslims of East Bengal done for the Hindu-majority people of Tripura for them to be more 'comfortable around us'?
 
In reality, the no-caste Hindus, i.e., the Namashudras, had more ties with the grass-root Muslims than any other inter-religion ties. These two communities had pretty much the same occupation, mostly agricultural labor. They both were close to the soil of Bengal. The so-called high-caste Hindus, including the zemindars, treated these two communities about the same, low class.
 
The Muslims had no logical reason to hate the Namashudras. The Namashudras did not hate the Muslims either, nor did they consider themselves superior to the Muslims. They thought their Muslim brothers would be better than the so-called high caste Hindus. That is why, in 1947, under the leadership of Jogen Mondal, they joined Pakistan over India. And see what they got from the Muslim brothers during Pakistan and during Bangladesh!
 
Now, let me give two pieces of advice to people like QAR. 1) My conclusions are based upon facts and logic, not upon imagination and nonsense. Trying to belittle them by calling them 'your opinions' is not wise. If you can, come up with additional facts and sounder logic to refute/modify the conclusions that I draw. 2) Academic discussions are necessary for human development, and for a better future; even while we realize that we can not go back in history to change things. Please do not shrug aside academic discussions.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
===========================================
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
 
In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman's regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent?

>>>>>>> With due respect, I think you are mixing up too many issue. The "Tripura" example was given to show LACK of leadership of the than Pakistani leaders. Pakistan was a country like most other countries. It did not work very well for the citizens because of bad leaders and greedy opportunists who cared more then their own interest than country or even their religion. It is wrong to think only Hindus suffered, I feel ALL people suffered. Hindus suffered more because of twisted ideology of blaming Hindus for everything bad. Today I strongly blame India for not giving us "Fair share" of water for ALL of our people. Religion has NOTHING to do with it. But you will find most of my people looking at such vital issue through religious prism!!
 
Aren't she and her people lucky?
 
I understand it is 'Your opinion" and we'll never know how it would have turned out. If we had few visionary leaders, we could have been in much better shape. I do not know where you live (BD or other country) but last 10 years Bangladesh made a lot of progress. I strongly feel it will continue. If our political leaders were little more tolerant of each others, we could have benefited more but I try to live with what I have not what I wished for.
 
People of Tripura has historical ties to Bengal and they are comfortable around us. Now it is history and ONLY subject of academic discussion. Nothing more ...
 
As far as communal problem is concern, it can be lessen by strengthening monitoring institutions (Judicial system, police, education etc) and visionary leaders. Those who are from non-Muslim background are aware of minority persecution but I see oppression of powerful people over powerless continues and it is blind to religion most of the time. The minority persecution is just an ugly extension of that. I bet you those who abuse Hindus (Abusing religion) are mostly ignorant about what Islam says (Or cherry picking verses to fulfill their own darn wishes). Lastly, I'll share a true story. I was taking an interview for a post. One gentleman came with a CV claiming he had a masters degree in Islamic history. I asked him to tell me the meaning of the word "Jihad" and he gave me the wrong answer!! Later he confessed, like secular education system they are given few questions to remember and he just memorized them without understanding most of it. That is why I say, authentic Islamic education can help to lessen hatred among faith communities. The positive part of this story is I also encountered many young men who impressed me with their knowledge. So I am hopeful for a better Bangladesh.
 
Shalom!  
 
====================================================
-----Original Message----- From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Apr 27, 2012 1:17 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
 
I am confused by quite a few postings recently in Mukto-Mona, especially by Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty and Dr. Jiten Roy. Look at Dr. Roy's comments below.
 
Here, he wrote, "Religion is not the cause of communality." However, only a few days back (April 21, 2012) in the thread "Religion & Communalism, he wrote, "Therefore, religions are at the very core of communalism."
 
In the posting below, he thanked Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Is it for Mr. Rahman's regret that the Pakistani politicians were not smart enough to have a bigger Islamic haven in the subcontinent? Just read Mr. Rahman's posting below a little carefully. He did not criticize the Pakistani leaders for any other faults.
 
Mr. Rahman expressed his opposition to "faith based bashing." Well, looks like the Maharani of Tripura was as stupid as Jogen Mandal for the Namashudras and Tridib Roy for the Jumma people. Aren't she and her people lucky? If her wish of 1947 came true, today some non-Muslims intellectuals of Tripura would be exchanging these academic talks with Muslims like Mr. Rahman, just like what Dr. Roy, Mr. Chakrabarty and I are doing. But the people of Tripura would be as sorry as the Hindus and the Jumma people of Bangladesh/Pakistan due to real "faith based bashing."
 
I do not think a two-nation theorist can be a real challenger of "faith based bashing."
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
=================================================

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
 
Thank you. Let me say this. Communalism is a different entity from religion. Religion is not the cause of communality. It's the victim of communality. People exploit religion to foment communality. Those who follow religion correctly are not communal. It's the borderline religious people, many of who has propensity to become communal for their own self-interest.
I my youth, we used to play soccer and volleyball with the Moulavi-teacher of our Primary School; he was our buddy. Also, Moulavi-teacher of our high school was my school-hostel super. He was a very strict religious man, but - used to love me like his sons. He used to guide me like my parents. I have written articles about him in Mukto-mona, and elsewhere before.
I believe - the trouble is with those who are borderline religious. They do not hesitate to use religion to foment hatred to achieve their political or self interest. Truly religious people will not dare to do so. 
Mostly, communality has been a tool for political leaders to achieve their goals. In case of Pakistan, it was the military rulers, who found this tool to bring majority population under their control at the expense of religious minority, in this case Hindus. Those military rulers were not religious, but used to act like one in public. There are other batch of people also, who would show their ultra religiosity outside only to exploit religion. These are dangerous people.
This is the truth – religion can exist without communality, but communality cannot exist without religion.
Jiten Roy
=============================== --- On Tue, 4/24/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, April 24, 2012, 3:50 AM

 
While I agree with most of what you said about "Pakistani politics", I think many Indian politicians are "Play" with religion frequently. Even today Muslim bashing goes on unabated when the time is right. Frequent riots in India says a lot about the problem in "Modern India". The major difference in early India and Pakistan was India was blessed with Gandhi (Nehru, Indira, Rajiv etc) family and Pakistan did not have such seasoned leadership. In reality many Muslims also suffered for lack of good leadership in Pakistan. The "Maharani of Tripura" wanted to join the then East Pakistan and patiently waited almost two years to get some invitations (Around that time India swallowed Hyderabad and Kashmir with VERY different excuses) but our leaders back in Pakistan did not have the skills required to show statesmanship with people of Tripura. Specifically leaders of Bengali origin (Mostly Muslims) were pathetic in negotiations and lost (To newly founded India) more of "Undivided Bengal" and Pakistani Punjab gained more land as a result.  Murshidabad was a Muslim majority state but somehow it stayed with India, defying all logic!! We can certainly criticize and "Bash" criminals but harassing people for their religion is unacceptable. Those of us blessed with some education have to stand united against all faith based bashing. It does not diminish anything from any faiths but exposes ignorants and cowards among us. Shalom!
 
====================================================
-----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 8:27 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
 
Let me ask, once again, why some people become successful, while others aren't? The only reason is - some people can envision the real solution/problem directly, while others run around bushes. This is the basic principle that works in every field.
 
As a result, many people can't envision the real problem Hindu-bashing in Pakistan, which, as a matter of fact, did not start with Ziaul Haque or American policy in the region. Tarek Fatah can conclude whatever he wants, but it really started from the birth of Pakistan. They have been spreading the poison of Hindu-bashing from the onset of Pakistan. This is how they could keep people on both sides separated for that long. Without Hindu-bashing, people would have revolted for reunification by now, like East and West Germany.
 
India did not need such poisoning, as they were expecting possibility of reunification from the very beginning. Popular belief was - Pakistan would not survive for long. But, it did - through mind-poisoning with Hindu-bashing.
 
Jiten Roy
 
===================================
--- On Mon, 4/23/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, April 23, 2012, 9:27 PM

 
Well, Tarek Fatah's thesis is dead wrong; an over simplification by just blaming one dictator. Without honestly identifying the real problem of anti-Hindu and anti-non-Muslim socio-political culture of Pakistan, no real solution could come; does not matter who Tarek Fatah may be.
 
==============================
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: a video: "HINDU BASHING IN PAKISTANI SCHOOL BOOKS"
 
I simply made a comment on 2-minute speech by Tarek Fatah. I still believe that Tarek Fatah is generally right. Please listen to the speech and re-read my post. You have gone beyond what Fatah is emphasizing on. I do not think neither Fatah nor I will disagree with you on the communal and anti-Indian politics of the Pakistani rulers. But using text books to antagonize the innocent minds against Hindus started with Ziaul Huque--that is Fatah's thesis. Do not overreact without understanding the point.  Sent from my iPhone
 
=============================
On Apr 22, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
As I wrote before, blaming America is an easy, cheap and irresponsible way of shifting the culpability from where it really belongs; in this case, Pakistan itself. Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty's assessment below is seriously flawed.
 
In a school textbook in the 1960s, in the then East Pakistan, there was a story where a cow wanted to be sacrificed for Allah in order to go to heaven. In my tender mind, I wondered, how hateful, cow is like a god to the Hindus, yet this is in the textbook that all children have to read! In another history narrative in a textbook, occupation and plundering of the Somnath Temple by Muslim invaders were described as Somnath Bijoy (winning of Somnath). Do these sound like American foreign policy in Afghanistan?
 
I would like to ask people like Mr. Chakrabarty to search their memory for facts like the following:
 
1)       The resignation of Jogen Mandal in 1950 from the position of Minister of Law, Justice and Labor in Liaquat Ali Khan's cabinet due to atrocities on Hindus in East Bengal. The government of Pakistan was hostile to religious minorities, not eager to uphold their rights – forcing Mr. Mandal to take a permanent shelter in India.
2)       The colossal scale atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan in 1965, during a war with India.
3)       The regular military of Pakistan killing Hindus, irrespective of political affiliations, in 1971.
 
Ayub Khan was the dictator of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969. It would be foolish to suggest that he had nothing to do with the 1965 atrocities, or with the mindset of the Pakistani military that methodically killed innocent and non-violent Hindus in 1971. It would be absurd to think that the character of Zia-ul-Haq sprouted out all of a sudden like a weed from a civilized/innocent Pakistan.
 
FYI: Jogen Mandal's Resignation Letter, if the hyperlink above does not work: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Resignation_letter_of_Jogendra_Nath_Mandal
 
Mr. Chakrabarty really needs to do some reading, recalling his memory, and thinking, before making the kind of comments that he made below. If we can not speak truthfully and honestly, let us keep silent, let us just enjoy our life away from talking in the public forums.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
=======================================================




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Re: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......



Interestingly enough, hell fire has the temperature of molten sulfur according to the Bible.  My personal observation is that these 'Islamist'  bloggers are less than well informed about the culture they try to defend.

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 10:07 PM, Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> wrote:
 

         Mr. Q Rahman gives us great wisdom from his 'religious' knowledge almost every time he posts. At some point one would thin that he is striving to be the greatest proselytizer of Islam.  My question is: Did he acquire all this vast knowledge from Madrassah education that he received in the past? Does Mr. Rahman himself,  or his sisters, brothers, cousins, friends and relatives send their children to Madrassahs for "authentic teachings of Islam"?

      Unless the honest answer to the question is an unqualified YES Mr. Q Rahman is resorting to a false, malicious propaganda. The fact on the ground level is that for the benefit of future generations of Muslims in the subcontinent

            Madrassahs should be BANNED from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

             The traditional 'moktob' on Fridays that give 'ampara' lessons to little boys and girls at the local mosques in the village have been sufficient religious education for centuries.  In the cities parents can send their children to a weekend 'diniyat' school or something to pick up skills to read the Qur'an.  Parents can provide the needed religious education for their children (just as Mr. Rahman's parents did) without thousands and thousands and thousands of Madrassahs all over the country. The Muslims of Bangladesh are 'naturally' better quality Muslims than their berathars and sisters in the Kingdom of Jahiliya (otherwise known as Saudi Arabia).

               There should be proper Religious Seminaries or especial Madrassahs where Imams and Khadems of mosques should receive their education.

               If you cannot see the politics behind the establishment of these educationally backward,  harmful and useless madrassahs then you ARE part of the propaganda. This has nothing to do with religion.



To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: subimal@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 11:45:45 -0700

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......

1. I will use the word "karma" as a religious or philosophical concept. The said word has very deep meanings.
 
2. Atheists (example, the Stalin era in the USSR) may have agenda that can prompt them to kill and torture. I hope I have properly understood the meaning of the statement "Without communal agenda, atheists have no reason to abandon good karmas". Killings and torture by many "religious" dictators (example, Saddam) were or are not communally motivated. The holocausts that descended on the Jews (WW II) and Hindus (1971) were mostly communal in nature. In these two cases Hitler and Yahiya Khan were the villains.   
 
3. Hatred, discrimination, persecution, and killing are rooted in scriptures. It depends on the ruler how he interprets and implements it. AL (I prefer using AL to BAL--it is my problem, Mr. Rahaman, as the sense of sin is in my mind as I am prejudiced with the word BAL) gave us a great constitution although there was hardly any atheists in that party. Nazibullah and Mollah Omar had diametrically opposite agenda---the former one's being far more progressive and humanitarian than that of the latter's. Even a Taliban member who fought against Soviet ocuupation does not want Taliban to come back to power with the same agenda (closing girls' school for example). 
 
4. In my judgement (following Campbell), both Islam and Hinduism originally were tribal in nature. Although the rituals have mostly remained triabal in nature (comparatively more dominating in Hinduism), both the religions are getting more and more universal. Given the multi-cultural, multi-racial, and multi-religious interactive and interdependent pluralistic societies, there is no way out. Isolated and closed societies are suicidal.
 
5. I do not believe in divine authorities. Every thing we see in scriptures are man made and were captured in the minds and hearts of the sages. Since they are man made and hence are bound to be time- and place-specific, only man is legitimately entitled to challenge, modify, and update them. I always emphasize on the word "reinterpretation". I find the concept of "reincarnation" or "Avatar" interesting and instructive. If we are afraid to challenge, reinterpret, and update, we are doomed to live a life that is not "modern". The concept of "Avatar" guarantees the progress of the society as you do not get stuck to a particular Avatar and successive Avatrs are supposed to be more and more progressive. 
 
6. It does not matter when eating beef was forbidden, it is still a fact that to a practicing Hindu, the cow is sacred and eating beef is against his religion. I have seen many Hindus not following this religious edict thanks to the freedom and rationality that they use to break the barrier to enjoy the cheap resources of the world a little bit more. Christians in general are more open in this matter.
 
7. I am aware that Mr. Rahman is not advocation for implementing Islamic rule in Bangladeh. But I wnt to emphasize that I am dead against the so called "Islamic" rule in Bangladesh. I like 1972 constitution which has already been raped several times. I believe in the principle of "separation of the church from the state". Even I do not buy the idea that a state (Bangladesh) get pro-actively involved with an international organization (OIC) in declaring a city (Dhaka) as the capital (Dhaka) of a particular religious (Islamic) culture of a continent (Asia) for a particular year (1212). I am not aware of the terms of reference that Bangladesh will have to follow in case of capital of Islamic culture matter. In my opinion it should kept private and not a state affair. It should however be allright for the PM who happens to be the head of the government of a Muslim majority country to become the chief guest in any occasion related to this. But what can we do? Our dependence on the Islamic countries is still unlimited.
 
8. I fully agree that the improvemnt in quality of Islamic education will minimize the unhappy incidences like the one that has recently happened in a madrasa. Even a several decades ago Greek philosophies used to be taught in the madrasas of the subcontinent. I am not sure what they have now in the curriculum. Our governments have neither commitments nor resources to improve the system. They do not have the courage either to undertake such a program.         
 
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......
the, ists, without communal agenda, have no reason to abandon good-karmas. Also, in my view, there is another class of people who serve God through good-deeds only, devoid of any religious ideology have no incentive to deviate from their good-karmas.

>>>>>>>>>> I am sure disorder in Bangladesh bothers you enough to write about it. It is the same for me. However some of your assumptions are probably based on observation not based on teachings of religion. Rightly you pointed out that without communal agenda, atheists have no reason to abandon good-karmas.
Guess you "Assumed" that religion dictates us to work against people of other faiths and no faiths. Judging by some so called religious parties I cannot blame you for such assumptions but that is NOT what Islam (As a Muslim I just want to talk about Islam in my post) is all about. Unlike most prominent faiths, Islam does have a Global outlook. The criminal laws are mostly same for people of all faiths. It does not favor Muslims over non-Muslims. In civil cases there are differences (Like laws of inheritance). The main problem is so called religious parties often focus on laws that favors their own ideologies (Frequently it has a magical relationship with going to power and grow influence in politics). Muslims cannot pick and chose laws of Allah (SWT). They should try their level best to practice as much as possible. Which includes respecting "Rights" (Haq) of other people. Islamic "Communal agendas" is mainly talking about one God (Not forcing others to this ideology but TALKING about), establish rights of all people, secure peace for the mass. As I mentioned in a recent post BAL was flexible about it's socialist agenda and it helped our country in a big way. We cannot be slaves of "Processes" only, we have to ensure we are following processes properly. For most Muslims in Bangladesh, we are largely "Tradition bound" not religion bound. Guess you can say the same about Hindus as well. As one Hindu scholar mentioned, there is nothing in scriptures of "Sanatana Dharma" prohibiting it's followers from consuming beef but it was a popular movement to "Respond" to Jainism. So Hindus adopted some of the theologies of Jains and stopped eating beef. I feel if we can improve the "Quality" of Islamic education in Bangladesh, it will make our country a better place to live. fortunately there are some bright people who are working hard in educating people about authentic teachings of Islam and hopefully positively impact our country. Shalom! -----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, May 6, 2012 7:45 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......
Communists and god-fearing people are ideologically driven people. They have done a lot of bad karmas (deeds) in this world, purely based on their ideological biases. Much more atrocities are being committed everyday by these people than those who only believe in good-deeds without ideological influences.
Those who are ideological people are prone to distort the definition of good-deeds in favor of their ideological biases. When someone opposes or challenges their ideological doctrines, they will not hesitate to throw away good-deeds out of the window and try to make him/her conform to the doctrines at the cost of good-karmas. That's what happened to these innocent girls. Religious-communality is another example of it.  
Athe, ists, without communal agenda, have no reason to abandon good-karmas. Also, in my view, there is another class of people who serve God through good-deeds only, devoid of any religious ideology have no incentive to deviate from their good-karmas. I prefer these two groups of people much more than any ideological-slaves, pretending to be good-guys.
Jiten Roy --- On Sat, 5/5/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, May 5, 2012, 3:10 PM

Religion is under the control of those so called 'misguided ones,' and nobody knows what they will come up with next. Nobody can touch any of those misguided ones.

>>>>>>>>>>> I see no reason why we cannot punish "Misguided ones". NO good reason at all. It is one thing to demonstrate or discuss hellfire or afterlife, it is sadistic to punish a child like this. Misguided people are derailed people. They can belong to secular, religious or any political parties. God knows all parties have their "Fair share" of misguided people. Maybe if you are not comfortable with "Religion" which motivates you to think, if we could remove religion, it would have solved all of our problems, sadly it is an illusion only.

Once upon a time our forefathers thought if they could remove the colonial Brits from our lands, it will be all right again. They were wrong. The next generation thought if they get out of Pakistan, we can return to "Golden Bengal", we are still far from that goal (After 40 years since we exited from Pakistan concept).

Recent reports tell me that even Awami League government is opting for promoting more religion (Islam), and less secularism, in peoples' lives.
>>>>>>>> Awami League came with a mandate of people of this country. If you feel we still have high level of minority persecution or it is not "Secular" enough as per your expectation, as a voter YOU have to ask that question. In a "Free" country, you have the choice to vote for another party of choice if you feel they failed you. Had you been discussing Pakistan, I would have agreed with you about so called "Religious cartel". If religious people have any street credit, they earned it by doing good. In fact MOST religious people are very good for our country. If you feel passionately, it is the ONLY major problem in our country, FEEL FREE to present an alternative view. Post independent Awami League played with socialist concept and it FAILED badly. Corruption destroyed our jute and textile industries for a generation. I am glad Awami League of 21st century realized their past mistakes and taken a more "Market friendly" approach towards economy and this flexibility got some success in private industries. Secular communist government failed to free people of West Bengal so badly that, today Mamata is having a political fight with Delhi to rearrange her debts of last three decades. Those "Populist" policies destroyed West Bengal. As I stated earlier, when we will be able to transfer our country where everyone and everything has to follow laws of the land, our people will be truly FREE. Today we are still far from being a democratic country where our governments are transparent. While I really feel where you are coming from, I do not think "Secular education" will help us much. Neither our people want to live in a society where religion has no place in it. You can randomly ask around Hindus, Muslims, Christians or smaller tribes etc. We are basically tradition bound people not even follow religious scriptures properly. Which enables people in power to abuse religion for their own personal interests. We still beat the crap out of people to settle our issues, we do not take them to police station. We still use courts of laws to harass and "Trouble" good people most of the time rather than seeking justice in courts of law. This is the fundamental issue of our country. Until we can make that vital transformation, no secular system will help us.  My two cents.......
-----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, May 5, 2012 8:23 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......

I know pretty soon I will hear from people in this forum to tell me that religion is not to blame for any of these acts; only a few 'misguided ones' are to blame for this barbaric act. Those who will praise religion will perhaps shout out from their cozy sofas to punish the people involved, etc., etc., but nothing will change - because they have no power to change anything. Religion is under the control of those so called 'misguided ones,' and nobody knows what they will come up with next. Nobody can touch any of those misguided ones. I think a year or two back, we heard about the 'stoning of women' in Bangladesh resulting from a 'fotwa,' awarded by a mollah. Media buried the incident as quickly as they could. I am not sure anything happened to the orchestrator of that incident, and I am sure nothing will happen to the individual(s) involved in this incident also.
 
 Recent reports tell me that even Awami League government is opting for promoting more religion (Islam), and less secularism, in peoples' lives. This is how strong the religious cartels are. I feel pity for the innocent regular folks of Bangladesh, who are, basically, slaves of the religious cartels. It appears that there is no one to liberate them. They need authentic secular education, and there is no leader to provide that. So, they suffer, and remain impoverished ....
 
Jiten Roy
 
--- On Thu, 5/3/12, Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......
To:
Date: Thursday, May 3, 2012, 7:21 PM

 
          Let us think deeply about the future of our citizenry and BAN  political madrassahs that are there only to indoctrinate economically deprived underclass..  Only those certified Madrassahs will be allowed where top quality religious education is seriously pursued. All other countries and religions have religious schools where future priests study for a lifetime dedicated to the service of God.  Why can't we have something like that?             Can we organize a protest march against Madrassah cruelty?
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 18:56:36 -0400 Subject: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter ....... From: syed.aslam3@gmail.com To: khabor@yahoogroups.com; notun_bangladesh@yahoogroups.com; chottala@yahoogroups.com

Madrasa teacher  Jesmin Akhter demonstrates lesson of hell to 14 girls

Thursday, May 3, 2012           
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Fire of hell is hotter

Madrasa teacher demonstrates lesson of hell to 14 girls


The hot spatula mark on a girl's leg inflicted by her madrasa teacher to give her a bit of experience of the hell for not offering prayers regularly. 14 girls were made victim of this brutal idea. Photo: Courtesy ATN BanglaStaff Correspondent
A teacher of a girls' madrasa on Tuesday seared legs of 14 students with a hot spatula in her punitive attempt to make them feel the "agony of fire in hell".
The girls, aged between eight and 12, underwent the hellish experience as they were "irregular" in their prayers. They are students of Talimul Quran Mahila Madrasa at Namashyampur in the capital's Kadamtali area.
The victims received treatment at local clinics for the injuries on their left legs.
Teacher Jesmin Akhter went into hiding after father of a victim had filed a case, said Sub-inspector Shaker Mohammad Jubair of Kadamtali police.
Abdul Jalil, father of victim Jannatul Ferdous, 8, told The Daily Star that after a 10-day holiday the madrasa reopened on Tuesday and his daughter attended the class at 8:00am.
Informed by another guardian, he rushed to the institution around 1:30pm and met a gathering of protesting locals.
Jalil quoting his daughter said Jesmin inflicted burns on the 14 students at around 8:30am for not being "regular" in offering their prayers during the vacation.
During her act of "punishment" Jesmin was quoted as asking the victims if they knew the severity of the fire in hell. If they didn't say their prayers regularly, they would experience such torment in hell, she added.
Jalil said the teacher kept her spatula on a burning gas oven adjacent to the classroom and each time burned the legs of three students.
The madrasa is housed on the first floor of a two storey building. Of the four rooms in the flat, the teacher lives in one room with her family while one room is used as the office and the rest for classes. Students attend their classes here sitting on the floor.
Jesmin also forced the wounded students to continue with the classes untill 1:15pm when mother of a student went to the madrasa with meal for her daughter, police said.
Agitating locals immediately besieged the madrasa, but police intervened and brought the situation under control, said SI Jubair.
Neither guardians nor the police could confirm immediately whether the madrasa is approved by the government.
Related:

http://www.bangladeshnews24.com/jugantor/2012/05/03/36880.htm 






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