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Wednesday, August 7, 2013

Re: [mukto-mona] Should Hindu Nationalist Narendra Modi Be Allowed a U.S. Visa ?




Please read following post by Great Freethinker Kamal Das: 

 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/message/34666

--- On Sat, 7/8/06, Kamal Das@yahoo.com <Kamal Das@yahoo.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Narendra Mody

Every political leader who adopts violence should be treated
as a criminal and put behind the bar, or hanged as justice metes out to
them.  Narendra Modi should be removed from power and tried in a civil court
for his inability to prevent riot, if even he hasn't participated in it.  Modi is no
hero.  He should be treated like those who initiated the Great Calcutta Killings 
in 1946.  Instead of being proud of Modi, Indians should consider him a liability 
and get rid of him.

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 8/7/13, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Should Hindu Nationalist Narendra Modi Be Allowed a U.S. Visa?
 Date: Wednesday, August 7, 2013, 9:09 PM
 
 Robert Spencer, a U.S. national and author of considerable reputation, is denied British visa for having doubted the historicity of Prophet Muhammad.  A documentary, "Death of a Princess" portraying life, love and death of a member of the Saudi royal family was initially banned by the PBS, and aired later after a lot of protests from free thinkers.  Such incidents prove  the power of Sunni Islam/petrodollars on the policy of the West.

Modi has better image than Yasir Arafat.  If he really gets elected as the Prime Minister of India, the U. S. Administration would love to reverse its policy towards him.


On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 4:50 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Let Indian Muslims and Hindus settle their problems of communality. India has enough of competent Muslims who are aware of their problems better than any of you, and are working for a resolution. They do not need solidarity from Bangladeshi people, who do not have clean history of communality of their own. So, Enough about Modi; we have thousands of Muslim-Modi's in Bangladesh, who also soaked their hands with the blood of thousands of innocent Hindus over the years.

Let's not forget so quickly - Major Zia, a Mukti-Joddhya, gave Presidency to Sah Aziz, a high ranking Pakistani collaborator within 3 years of independence, and, thereafter, his wife, Khaleda Zia, gave Ministry to many more Razakars in Bangladesh, who are top most communal elements in the society. When we have such an ugly communal history, shouldn't we look at our own image before we point out ugly images of others? Trust me - Indian Muslims are not such a vulnerable weak group of people, as you may think. Let's solve our own problems of communality. 

Please read this piece of news, if you don't mind:


Thanks.

Jiten Roy


From: SyedAslam <Syed.Aslam3@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2013 11:10 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Should Hindu Nationalist Narendra Modi Be Allowed a U.S. Visa?
Should Hindu Nationalist Narendra Modi Be Allowed a U.S. Visa?
by Shikha Dalmia Jul 31, 2013 4:45 AM EDT

Narendra Modi is a powerful Indian politician who could one day lead the country. He's also stoutly anti-Muslim—and banned from receiving a U.S. visa. Shikha Dalmia on the raging debate.

The big debate right now in America is whether to hand more visas to Indian techies who want to study or live in the United States. But the issue that dominated the news cycle in India last week concerned the visa of one man: Narendra Modi, the chief minister of the state of Gujarat, who wants to do neither.

Narendra Modi is a controversial figure, both in the U.S. and India. (Virendra Singh Gosai/Hindustan Times, via Gety)
Sixty-five members of the Indian Parliament—some of whom have since backtracked—released a letter they wrote to President Barack Obama urging him to maintain America's eight-year-old visa ban on Modi. The U.S., along with England and other Western countries, imposed the ban after human-rights groups implicated Modi in the 2002 massacre of Muslims in his state. (The Indian Supreme Court exonerated Modi a decade later, but by then many witnesses had been tampered with or died or killed.)
That year, Hindu mobs—some led by figures from Modi's own party, one of whom was eventually convicted—went on a revenge spree against Muslims for burning a train with Hindu pilgrims. They razed Muslim homes, raped Muslim women, and killed Muslim men.
However, when asked by Reuters a few weeks ago if he felt any remorse over the grisly events that unfolded on his watch, his response was: If your driver runs over a "kutte ka baccha"—a crude term for a puppy—you would obviously feel regret; it was a statement that simultaneously dodged responsibility and dehumanized Muslims.
The latest scandal dogging Modi involves the killing of a young Muslim woman with alleged links to Pakistani terrorists in a staged encounter with the Gujarati police.
But none of this has fazed Modi's solid fan base in the majority Hindu population that has made him the opposition BJP's (Bharatiya Janata Party) standard-bearer in next year's elections for prime minister.
Part of Modi's attraction is that, in sharp contrast to the incompetence, corruption, and intellectual bankruptcy of the ruling Congress Party, he is a man of vision—an able administrator who has done wonders for his state's economy. This is an image he feeds constantly. A month ago, a story floated by his PR firm about how he orchestrated the rescue of 15,000 people stranded in a flood zone, even as the Indian army struggled, caused a sensation among his followers. When media investigations proved that Modi's Rambo-like rescue could not possibly be true, they blamed not him but his political opponents for planting the story to embarrass him.
The latest scandal dogging Modi involves the killing of a young Muslim woman with alleged links to Pakistani terrorists in a staged encounter with the Gujarati police. Some of the accused cops have alleged that Modi knew and gave the encounter his blessing.
But the main reason Modi attracts worshipful Hindu throngs is his open contempt for Congress' ideology of secularism that, in his view, has balkanized the country by extending special favors to Muslims and other minorities to win their votes. That is not a baseless accusation. But what is Modi's solution? More balkanization. He proudly calls himself not just a nationalist but a Hindu nationalist. His insult-of-choice for Congress is that it wears a "burqa of secularism"—a thinly veiled reminder to Hindus that Modi represents their—not Muslim—interests.
But the question is: why does Modi covet an American visa, given that unabashed love for the motherland is a central plank of his politics? It is not because Modi is desperate to visit Disneyland. It is because the Hindu nationalist project involves not just changing the perception of Hinduism as a weak religion at home but abroad as well. India's economic success has given Hindus—especially the urban nouveau riche—a resurgent pride in their religion after enduring decades of digs about India's "Hindu rate of growth." They want Hinduism to be seen as the solution to the centuries of mess created by Muslim and British "foreign" rule. They want the world to regard India's success as synonymous with Hinduism.
Modi, a fire-brand Hindu, is perfect for the job—except that he can't do it so long as he remains a pariah on the international stage. Obtaining a U.S. visa is an important step in rehabilitating himself in the West.
All of this puts the United States in a difficult predicament. Should Modi become the elected prime minister of India next year, it would be awkward for the head of the world's most populous democracy—and an American ally—not to be able to travel to America. At that point, an ongoing ban will become a slap in the face not just of Modi and his backers, but of India.
However, removing the ban right now will whitewash his sins and make him more electable. A U.S. visa is not a travel permit; it is an international seal of approval, which is why his backers have been fiercely petitioning the State Department to grant it. The letter that Indian M.P.s wrote was an effort to exert counter-pressure and neutralize that campaign.
There are no good options but, all things considered, America should err on the side of not enhancing Modi's appeal right now—hoping that the core decency of the Indian people keeps this polarizing, saffron-robed figure (who won't wear greenbecause it is the color of Islam) out of New Delhi next year.
Like The Daily Beast on Facebook and follow us on Twitter for updates all day long.
Shikha Dalmia, a native of India and a Hindu, is a Reason Foundation Senior Analyst and a Reason magazine columnist.
For inquiries, please contact The Daily Beast at editorial@thedailybeast.com.

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Bio

Shikha Dalmia is a senior policy analyst at Reason Foundation, a nonprofit think tank advancing free minds and free markets.
Dalmia is a Bloomberg View contributor, a columnist at the Washington Examiner, and writes regularly for Reason magazine. She is also a frequent contributor to the op-ed pages of The Wall Street Journal and numerous other publications such as the Los Angeles TimesNew York PostThe Weekly StandardBusiness Week, San Francisco Chronicle, and  the Chicago Tribune. She previously served as a columnist for Forbes.
Dalmia was co-winner of the first 2009 Bastiat Prize for Online Journalism for her columns in Forbes and Reason.  
From 1996 to 2004, Dalmia was as an award-winning editorial writer at the Detroit News, covering a variety of policy issues, including the environment, immigration, Social Security, welfare reform, health care and foreign policy. She also worked as a reporter for the Patriot, a national daily newspaper based in New Delhi, India, where she grew up and earned her B.S. degree in chemistry and biology from the University of Delhi.
Dalmia frequenlty appears on Fox Business Network and other television and radio outlets.
Dalmia, who taught news writing courses at Michigan State University, earned a Master's degree in mass communication from Louisiana State University. She also holds a post graduate diploma in journalism from the Indian Institute of Mass Communications.
She lives in the Detroit area with her husband and son.


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               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona]



I see similarity between Congress and AL and also between BJP and BNP. I think Congress prefers AL to BNP and BJP prefers BNP to AL. Who knows BJP may be waiting for themselves and BNP to get back the power and then solve some unsettled issues after the elections in India and Bangladesh. Both BNP and BJP are rightist parties. Most of the prominent Hindu members have RSS connection while BNP is openly supportive of Jamaat and recently Hefazat.  

From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2013 2:59 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona]
 
BJP is a known hatemonger institution of India who enthusiastically take action against non-Hindu minorities inside India and non-Hindu neighbors. We have seen this trend for decades. It is sad to watch when a well known personality like Dr. Sen speaks up against such hateful organization, we see members here are blaming Dr. Sen instead of the culprit BJP. Historically it was back up by murderous organization like RSS (One of it's member murdered Ghandiji), so I am just calling spade a spade. This is not based on emotion but rock solid data!! Here is latest from their anti-Bangladesh hateful action (Remember BD is the most trusted neighbor of India) ......Shalom!========================================================================================================================================================
BJP has indicated it may not support the Constitution amendment bill the Indian government is placing in the Parliament to give effect to the 2011 Indo-Bangladesh land boundary agreement.
 
Indian Foreign Minister Salman Khurshid has been persuading all opposition parties including the BJP to support the bill in "national interests to take forward improving relations with Bangladesh".

Khurshid has tried to impress on the opposition lawmakers and leaders that Bangladesh is now India's most friendly and important neighbour — a country that Indians trust the most, as revealed in a recent survey commissioned by the Hindu newspaper and the CNN-IBN channel.

But BJP leader Yashwant Sinha, a former Finance Minister of the country, has told journalists that it was not possible for his party to support the bill because the "government has not taken all stakeholders into confidence".

"The government has ruined our relations with all neighbours," he said.

Sinha belongs to the hardline BJP faction led by Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi who is backed by the party's national president Rajnath Singh.

But BJP moderates like former Foreign Minister Jaswant Singh, leader in Upper House Arun Jaitley and Sushma Swaraj as well as former Deputy Prime Minister L K Advani seems to be in favour of the deal.

The bill will be placed by the government in the ongoing monsoon session of the Parliament.

"We are into last ditch efforts to convince the BJP to get this through," said an official of the ministry of external affairs.

But Delhi's political circles are less than optimistic.


-----Original Message-----From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Tue, Aug 6, 2013 12:07 pmSubject: Re: [mukto-mona] মন্তব্য
 
Actually, I believe people who are really secular do make the fair judgments vis-a-vis BJP, BNP and Awami League. Of course, the Islamist hate-mongers and the pseudo-secular idiots and hateful minds of the sub-continent talk against BJP while BNP and Awami League are OK with them.

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2013 9:38 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মন্তব্য
 
It is highly probable that Modi may have been passive in response to the riot. If passivity on the part of Modi is unpardonable crime, then Khaleda Zia and Sheikh Hasina committed similar unpardonable crimes. They had been passive during all communal violence in Bangladesh during their tenures. In fact, Awami League government recently ordered stand down instructions to the local law and order administration during the communal violence on Buddhist community at Hazarihat, Chittagong. When religious minorities were begging for protection, Police officer-in-charge said his hands are tied. No one is asking for heads in these cases?

Are you sure you are all making fair judgment here.

Jiten Roy

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2013 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মন্তব্যের জন্য ক্ষমা চাইবেন না অমর্ত্য [1 Attachment]
 
"How do we justify Modi's instruction to the police officer" - that looks like a fiction.  Debate has continued since the riot on the role of Modi in it and nobody has proven his involvement.  For details please read the attachment.
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 4:47 AM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
How do we justify Modi's instruction to the police officer: Let the people vent their anger (ref. a recent post in mukto-mona). How do we justify Vajpayee's annoyance with Modi: how long have I to watch the bloodshed? Forget about active imvolvement. Even all such passivity on the part of a seating CM is unpardonable crime. 

Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 4, 2013, at 1:02 AM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Involvement of Modi in Gujrat riots has never been proved.  One may look into the myth of Gujrat Riots in http://www.gujaratriots.com/.  In a land where H. S. Suhrawardy is adored as a prince of democracy(Ganatantrer Barputra), Modi should be treated as an angel, albeit of a Hindu variety.
On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 4:16 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
While I do not have a problem with Amartya Sen's comments regarding Chandam Mitra's demand for him to return the Bharat Ratna because he did not want Narendra Modi to be the Prime Minister of India, I probably would have handled the issue differently. If I were in Sen's shoes, I probably would have said something like, "my honorability has nothing to do with what Modi or BJP was, and I am ignoring Mitra's demand."

As for India's leaders influencing what goes on in Bangladesh, Modi could not be effective in secularizing Bangladesh; because he does not have a secular credential. However, talking theoretically, if India had no-nonsense secular people running the country, Bangladesh would have felt a lot more pressure to get its acts together; Bangladeshi Hindus would not have been going to India because of being victims of Muslim hatred and atrocities at their homeland of centuries.

SuBain

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মন্তব্যের জন্য ক্ষমা চাইবেন না অমর্ত্য

 
"Did Modi call that a "National Shame", Dr. Roy?"

My comment was not against Sen's remark about Modi, Dr. Bain. I said that - he has the right to do so.
My comment was, rather, on the subject of returning the Bharat Ratna medal and the tile to Vajpayee. This award has nothing to do with Modi.

Indian people know better who should be their Prime Minister. I am not in tune with their situations.
Whether Modi or someone else becomes the PM, things will not change much for Bangladesh. In fact, 2001 carnage on Hindus in Bangladesh happened during the BJP rule in India; India did not come forward to save the religious minorities in Bangladesh. So, what could be different if they come to power again? That's why - I don't care who becomes the PM.

As for our relatives in India, I am sure - nothing will change for them during another BJP tenure. They have been there before.

Thanks.

Jiten Roy


From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মন্তব্যের জন্য ক্ষমা চাইবেন না অমর্ত্য

 
Looks like Dr. Roy has missed the justification that I have provided in the last post below as to why "I also think that it was OK for Professor Sen to say that he would return it if Atal Bihari Vajpayee asked it back." Clearly, Dr. Roy has failed to think what he was talking about below about Narendra Modi. Professor Sen was not allergic to the award from Prime Minister Vajpayee, who was respectable enough to term the Gujarat Riots a "National Shame." Did Modi call that a "National Shame", Dr. Roy? Did Modi as the Chief Minister of Gujarat take the responsibility of the failure of his administration to stop the riots? Never mind who started it and how many were killed from what religious community, it was Modi's job to provide safety and security for all citizens of Gujarat.

As for the sorry state of affairs in Bangladesh, I agree with Dr. Roy.

As for India, while I am not a voter there, I do care about what kind of people leads that country. In spite of Dr. Roy's statement below, I have no doubt that he also cares about what kind of people leads India. Both he and I have too many friends and relatives in India, both of us know that the leaders of India can influence what happens in Bangladesh, our beloved motherland. Obviously, we probably have some differences in philosophies, and what the two of us want India to be might be somewhat different.

Sukhamaya Bain 

========================================
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মন্তব্যের জন্য ক্ষমা চাইবেন না অমর্ত্য

 
"I also think that it was OK for Professor Sen to say that he would return it if Atal Bihari Vajpayee asked it back."

May I know what the justification behind this comment is?
Let me ask you also - why didn't he decline to receive the medal and the title from Atal Bihari Vajpei if he was so allergic to this award?

As I said before, not supporting Modi is his legitimate right. But, being an academician and a Nobel Laureate, he should know better. The riot in Gujrat was the result of a statewide spontaneous mob outbreak from both sides, which resulted 31,000 arrests throughout the state, 80% were Hindus. Total 140 killed in Police firing, 80 of them were Hindus. In the first 3 days 100 were killed, 70 were Hindus. Let's remember, Indian communal riots are never one-sided. Prime Minister termed this disaster as a "National Shame." One BJP State Minister of Modi government has been hanged recently. Do you still think Modi and Indian government did not do enough? I believe - Modi is a victim of propaganda. Modi is banned from entry to USA as a result of propaganda campaign. Some people even compared him as Golam Azam of India. So on and so forth …

Educated people should not get carried away by prop


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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] Secularism in search of truth/Waheed Nabi



Looks like the Independent Pulpit, Waco, Texas, 126 years ago broadly outlined what secularism should mean. A state that espouses secularism constitutionally theoretically should follow this broad outline. But there is a practical problem. The state and its citizens who or whose representatives run the affairs of the state are not synonymous. In a country like Bangladesh where 99.9999% (the number is arbitrary and has been used here to imply that almost every one in the country is religious) of the people are religious. Theoretically there should be no problem if the state follows one extreme principle "no priests, no ceremonies" outlined by the Independent Pulpit. As a matter of fact, a state which espouses secularism should follow this principle. But it does not happen. Moulanas or priests or ministers are found to recite from a holy book before an important event of the state. We have holidays for religious festivals. The state proactively supports and sponsors religious activities of its citizens. Personally I have no problem with this as the state has the responsibility to fulfill the various needs of its citizens including religious need which is so vital for the people. This need has arisen for historical reasons and the state cannot ignore it. The state, however, must set limits to the extent it should support and sponsor the religious needs. Keeping all this in mind Mujib interpreted the secularism in the constitution as follows: secularism does not mean absence of religion. But he did not say that the state as an entity could not be secular in the sense outlined in this short film. He also did not impose any compulsion on any one that he or she had to be religious.          

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2013 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Secularism in search of truth/Waheed Nabi
 
"meaning equal treatment to all religions" - and that treatment is ignoring all of them.  Being secular needs a high moral, good analytical ability and disloyalty of any prehistoric fool claiming to have hotline communication with creator of the Universe.
On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Secularism represents Dhorma-Niropekhota, in Bengali, meaning equal treatment to all religions. He was describing secularism as Atheism, meaning independence from religion, God, and priests. This description reflects the misunderstanding of secularism in the western world.

Even a God fearing person can be secular if he/she can treat faith as a personal belief, and understands that no faith is beyond proof, and others may have different personal faiths as well. Those who misunderstand faith as a proven fact cannot be secular; those are the dumbest people on earth.

Jiten Roy


From: Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2013 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Secularism in search of truth/Waheed Nabi
 

A very nice 5 mins video about secularism.

---------------------

Secularism-A Short Film -5mins

SECULARISM
Robert Green Ingersoll
SEVERAL people have asked me the meaning of this term.
Secularism is the religion of humanity; it embraces the affairs of this world; it is interested in everything that touches the welfare of a sentient being; it advocates attention to the particular planet in which we happen to live; it means that each individual counts for something; it is a declaration of intellectual independence; it means that the pew is superior to the pulpit, that those who bear the burdens shall have the profits and that they who fill the purse shall hold the strings. It is a protest against theological oppression, against ecclesiastical tyranny, against being the serf, subject or slave of any phantom, or of the priest of any phantom. It is a protest against wasting this life for the sake of one that we know not of. It proposes to let the gods take care of themselves. It is another name for common sense; that is to say, the adaptation of means to such ends as are desired and understood.
 
Secularism believes in building a home here, in this world. It trusts to individual effort, to energy, to intelligence, to observation and experience rather than to the unknown and the supernatural. It desires to be happy on this side of the grave.
 
Secularism means food and fireside, roof and raiment, reasonable work and reasonable leisure, the cultivation of the tastes, the acquisition of knowledge, the enjoyment of the arts, and it promises for the human race comfort, independence, intelligence, and above all liberty. It means the abolition of sectarian feuds, of theological hatreds. It means the cultivation of friendship and intellectual hospitality. It means the living for ourselves and each other; for the present instead of the past, for this world rather than for another. It means the right to express your thought in spite of popes, priests, and gods. It means that impudent idleness shall no longer live upon the labor of honest men. It means the destruction of the business of those who trade in fear. It proposes to give serenity and content to the human soul. It will put out the fires of eternal pain. It is striving to do away with violence and vice, with ignorance, poverty and disease. It lives for the ever present to-day, and the ever coming to-morrow. It does not believe in praying and receiving, but in earning and deserving. It regards work as worship, labor as prayer, and wisdom as the savior of mankind. It says to every human being, Take care of yourself so that you may be able to help others; adorn your life with the gems called good deeds; illumine your path with the sunlight called friendship and love.
 
Secularism is a religion, a religion that is understood. It has no mysteries, no mumblings, no priests, no ceremonies, no falsehoods, no miracles, and no persecutions. It considers the lilies of the field, and takes thought for the morrow. It says to the whole world, Work that you may eat, drink, and be clothed; work that you may enjoy; work that you may not want; work that you may give and never need.
 
The Independent Pulpit, Waco, Texas, 1887.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG6Fd_2yNt4&feature=player_embedded!

On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:36 PM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Interesting article about secularism! 

Non-Fiction

Secularism in search of truth

Waheed Nabi

Galileo
Galileo
In the eleventh century, the conservative Arab philosopher Ibn Ghazali wrote a book called "Incoherence of  the Philosophers". In this book he bitterly criticized the progressive minded Muslim philosophers. In reply, a Spanish Muslim philosopher, Ibn Rushd, wrote a book called " Incoherence of the incoherence". The eminent historians thought that he clearly expressed secular ideas in this book. The debate between Ibn Ghazali and Ibn Rushd was about the study of philosophy. But secular thoughts were quite apparent in Ibn Rushd's book. Though in the ideas of ancient philosophers like Protagoras and Marcus Aurelius, secular thoughts were there, Ibn Rushd was the first philosopher who clearly gave expression to secularism. Ibn Sinha of Iran, a world renowned physician, was also a wise philosopher and believed in secularism. Ibn Rushd was a follower of Ibn Sinha. It seems that Muslim philosophers were the pioneers of secular ideas. But, unfortunately, because of the Crusades Muslims went backward in their intellectual activities.
It has been seen in history that when a particular idea gets stagnant with time then it is replaced by new ideas. The leading figures of the old thoughts do not realise  their own shortcomings and try to stick to their outdated ides. In situations like this the leaders of the old schools get aggressive against progressive thinkers. We can find many examples of  these in history. Following the ideas of Copernicus and through his own observation Galileo found that the earth moves round the Sun. He did not have any intention of fighting against the church authorities. He only wanted to present the proof of his findings. But the religious authorities were not interested in new scientific findings.
George Jacob Holyoake
George Jacob Holyoake
According to them, whatever was written in the Bible was the absolute truth. They put Galileo in prison, where he died. Michael Servetus, a Spanish scientist who described the blood circulation system in human beings, was burnt to death by the church authorities. Giordano Bruno talked about the eternity of the universe. He said that the Sun was among many stars. Bruno was also burnt to death by the religious establishment. Charles Darwin was given a hard time by priests for revealing a scientific truth. We now see that the truth arrived at by secular scientists is universally accepted and conservative superstitious doctrines have been flung into the dustbin of history. But in spite of that the forces of darkness show their muscle power every now and then and obstruct the progress of  history.The term "secularism" was first coined by an English philosopher called George Jacob Holyoake. He was a follower of a school of philosophy called "agnosticism". This school of philosophy was established by Thomas Henry Huxley. He said that agnosticism is not a belief system but a process by which one can test whether an idea is true or false. Holyoake said that secularism was not against Christianity. Secularism takes the cause of  truth forward. He said that secularism was not the only way to establish the truth but definitely secularism helps in knowing the truth. In his opinion, our life is the foundation of secularism. He believed that human welfare was deeply related to this ideology. We can test the validity of this ideology with the experience of our life.We believe that there is a need to discuss secularism in our country. Even the people who introduced secularism in our constitution did not explain secularism to our people. The political parties whose ideology is secularism also did not explain the ideology to the people. Because of these reasons conservative forces tell people that secularism is nothing but atheism. The fact is, with the progress of time circumstances change. To adjust to these changing circumstances is a necessity. If we try to stick to the circumstances of the long ago past, then our quality of life will remain poor. This is a reality. Secularism will help us get adjusted to our life's situations. Here is an example . Women's whole life used to be spent in giving birth to babies and to bring them up. They could not do anything else. Now because of modern scientific birth control methods women are contributing to the welfare of  society. If we go back from here then tremendous harm will be done to our society.Secular thoughts were disseminated widely during the Renaissance. The Renaissance started in Florence in Italy in the 14th century. The pioneer of the renaissance was Francesco Petrach. The Renaissance then spread all over Europe. It brought a new awakening in Europe. It exerted its influence on art, literature, science and politics. Roman Catholics had brought stagnation in the lives of Europeans. The Renaissance brought about a new revolution. The Renaissance encouraged free thinking. It helped people acquire knowledge in all spheres of life.Now let us look at the history of our own country. Perhaps William Hunter's book The Indian Mussalmans will help us. During British rule the Muslims of India felt as if they had lost. Even though during the period of Muslim rule they were nowhere near the centre of power, they felt as if they had some kind of relationship with the rulers. Because of these reasons there was some kind of distance between the Indian Muslims and the British rulers (according to Hunter, the Indian Muslims did not learn the Persian language during Muslim rules).  The Hindus learned the English language and got themselves educated. The Muslims stayed backwards. When the English wanted to spend money to promote Hindu religious education, Raja Rammohan Roy opposed it. He demanded education on scientific and other modern subjects. The Hindus benefited from his foresight. The backwardness of the Muslims was the reason behind the demand made by Pakistan. The religious basis of Pakistan was soon proved futile. The book Pakistan: between mosque and military" by Husain Haqqani will help us to understand this.The disillusioned Bengalis demanded self-autonomy and when it was suppressed they fought for independence and got it at a very high price. The four pillars of this new state were "nationalism", "democracy", "socialism" and "secularism". The backward thinking people could not accept it. Under the leadership of two army generals they turned the wheels of history backward.  As  there was ignorance in our people about the four pillars of our constitution, the reactionary forces did not get any resistance in changing the constitution. Due to various reasons it is now difficult to come out of this unwanted situation. The only way out of this situation is wide discussion about secularism. Mass awareness about secularism is the only way out of the impossible situation we are in.
Waheed Nabi is a fellow of the Royal College of Psychiatrists in Britain.

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



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Re: [mukto-mona] ভারত নেয় দেয় না কিছু



Such Paki minded ungrateful creatures should be castrated.


2013/8/8 Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
 

Mostly baseless and nonsensical write up of a political operative of BNP/Jamat.  He is accusing Awami League for trying to normalize relationship with India. How could that be so bad for Bangladesh is beyond my understanding? It's a waste of time, and does not deserve to be circulated in the forum.

Jiten Roy


From: Shahadat Hussaini <shahadathussaini@hotmail.com>
To: bangladeshi googlesgroups <bangladeshiamericans@googlegroups.com>; bangladesh-progressives googlegroups <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>; "khabor@yahoogroups.com" <khabor@yahoogroups.com>; alochona <alochona@yahoogroups.com>; chottala yahoogroups <chottala@yahoogroups.com>; mokto mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2013 3:27 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] ভারত নেয় দেয় না কিছু

 
ভারত নেয় দেয় না কিছু
জালাল উদ্দিন ওমর  :   আমাদের মাননীয় পররাষ্ট্রমন্ত্রী ডা. দিপু মনি গত ২৫ জুলাই ভারত সফরে গিয়েছিলেন। এ পর্যন্ত তিনি অনেকবার ভারত সফর করেছেন এবং এ সফরসহ তিনি মোট ১১৫ বার বিদেশ সফরে গিয়েছেন। তার এই সফরের প্রধান উদ্দেশ্য ছিল তিস্তার পানি বণ্টন নিয়ে ভারতের সাথে বাংলাদেশের একটি চুক্তি করা, যাতে  বাংলাদেশ তিস্তা নদী হতে ন্যায্য পানি পায়। ডা. দিপু মনি এই বিষয়টি নিয়ে ভারতের প্রধানমন্ত্রী ড. মনমোহন সিং-এর সাথে বৈঠক করেছেন। আবার  ভারতের বিরোধীদলীয় নেতার সাথেও বৈঠক করেছেন । কিন্তু কাজের কাজ কিছুই হয়নি। তিস্তায় পানি দিতে ভারতীয় পক্ষ কোন আশ্বাস দেয়নি এবং চুক্তির ব্যাপারেও কোন আগ্রহ দেখায়নি। স্বয়ং ভারতীয় পত্রিকাসমূহই রিপোর্ট করেছেÑ ডা. দিপু মনি ভারত থেকে খালি হাতে ফেরত গেছে। তিস্তা চুক্তি নিয়ে আশার কথা শুনতে শুনতে আওয়ামী লীগ সরকারের পাঁচ বছরের মেয়াদ শেষের পথে, কিন্তু এখনো এই বিষয়ে ন্যূনতম অগ্রগতিও হয়নি। স্বাভাবিকভাবেই প্রশ্ন জাগে, তিস্তা চুক্তি হবে কবে? বাংলাদেশের ক্ষমতাসীন আওয়ামী লীগ সরকারের অকৃত্রিম বন্ধু বলে পরিচিত ভারত রাষ্ট্রটি যখন আওয়ামী লীগ সরকারের মেয়াদকালেও বাংলাদেশকে তিস্তার পানি দিল না, তিস্তার পানি দিতে আগ্রহ দেখাল না এবং তিস্তার পানি নিয়ে চুক্তি করার কোন কমিটমেন্ট করল না, তখন দেশবাসীর মনে এই ধারণাই সৃষ্টি হয় যে, ভারত আর তিস্তার পানি নিয়ে কোন চুক্তি করবে না। কারণ ভারত আওয়ামী লীগের বন্ধু এবং শুভাকাক্সক্ষী হলেও, বাংলাদেশের আপামর জনগণের বন্ধু এবং শুভাকাক্সক্ষী নয়। তাই আওয়ামী লীগের নেতৃত্বাধীন ধর্মনিরপেক্ষ শক্তির পক্ষে কাজ করা এবং ধর্মনিরপেক্ষ শক্তিকে সমর্থনের কথা ভারত বার বার ঘোষণা করলেও, তিস্তার পানি দেয়ার কথা ঘোষণা করতে একবারও রাজি নয়। আর  শাহবাগের গণজাগরণ মঞ্চের প্রতি সমর্থন জানিয়ে কলকাতায় বসে বসে কবির সুমন একের পর এক গান লিখলেও, তিস্তার পানি বঞ্চিত হয়ে অর্থনৈতিকভাবে ক্ষতিগ্রস্ত বাংলাদেশের হাজারো মানুষের জন্য কবির সাহেব কোন গান লিখেন নাই। আওয়ামী লীগ সরকারের এই মেয়াদে ভারতের প্রধানমন্ত্রী ড. মনমোহন সিং, প্রেসিডেন্ট প্রণব মুখার্জি, পররাষ্ট্রমন্ত্রী সালমান খুরশিদ, কংগ্রেস প্রধান সোনিয়া গান্ধী, তার ছেলে রাহুল গান্ধীসহ ভারতের শীর্ষ সব নেতাই বাংলাদেশে এসেছেন। একইভাবে বাংলাদেশের প্রধানমন্ত্রী  শেখ হাসিনা, পররাষ্ট্রমন্ত্রী ডা. দিপু মনি এবং বিরোধীদলীয় নেত্রী খালেদা জিয়াও ভারত সফর করেছেন। উভয় দেশের নেতাদের মধ্যে বৈঠকের পর বৈঠক হয়েছে। কিন্তু বাংলাদেশ কিছুই পায়নি। সুতরাং বাংলাদেশের জনগণ এবং রাজনৈতিক নেতাদেরকে বাংলাদেশের প্রতি ভারতের দৃষ্টিভঙ্গি এবং ভালোবাসার হালহকিকত বুঝতে হবে। তা না হলে ভারতকে ভালোবেসে সব উজাড় করে দেয়া যাবে, কিন্তু ভারতের ভালোবাসাও পাওয়া যাবে না , ভারত থেকে ভালোবাসার প্রতিদানও পাওয়া যাবে না।
আওয়ামী লীগ বরাবরই ভারতবান্ধব বলে পরিচিত। তাই আওয়ামী লীগ ক্ষমতায় আসলেই ভারতের সাথে বাংলাদেশের সম্পর্ক গরম হয়ে ওঠে। ভারতের সাথে বাংলাদেশের দহরম মহরম শুরু হয়। বাংলাদেশে ভারতীয় কর্মকর্তাদের সফর যেমন বেড়ে যায়, তেমনি ভারতের মাটিতে বাংলাদেশের কর্মকর্তাদের সফরও তেমন বেড়ে যায়। শুরু হয় দু'দেশের মধ্যে সম্পর্ক উন্নয়নের দৌড়-ঝাঁপ এবং বন্ধুত্বের কথামালা। আরও শুরু হয় বন্ধুত্বের নিদর্শন হিসেবে সাহায্যের প্রতিশ্রুতি। মনে হয় এবার বুঝি বাংলাদেশের চাওয়া-পাওয়ার সবই ভারত দিয়ে দিবে। কিন্তু সময় শেষে দেখা যায় ভারত বাংলাদেশকে কিছুই দেয়নি, বরং বাংলাদেশ থেকে ভারত সবই নিয়ে গেছে। তবু আমাদের আক্কেল হয়নি। আমরা ভারতকে সব দিয়ে এখন বেকুবের মতো পাওয়ার আশায় বসে আছি। ভারত যে মুলা আমাদেরকে দেখিয়ে চলছে, সেই মুলাটি পাওয়ার আশায়  আমরা ঐতিহাসিক সেই গাধার মতো একান্ত অনুগত হয়ে এখনো ভারতের সব ক'টি চাওয়া পূরণ করেই চলছি। আওয়ামী লীগ সরকারের এমন ভারতপ্রীতি এবং ভারতের প্রতি এমন আনুগত্য দেখে ভারতীয়রাও আজ মুচকি হাসে। ভারতের রাষ্ট্রপতি জনাব প্রণব মুখার্জি  যিনি একজন বাঙালি এবং বাঙালি পরিচয় দিতে যিনি গর্ববোধ করেন, যার আদি পুরুষের জন্মস্থান বাংলাদেশে আর বাংলাদেশ সফরে এসে যিনি নিজেকে বাংলাদেশের অকৃত্রিম বন্ধু বলে পরিচয় দেন এবং বাংলাদেশের উন্নয়নে তার প্রতিশ্রুতি ব্যক্ত করেন, সেই মান্যবর প্রণব মুখার্জিও কিন্তু তার বন্ধুরাষ্ট্র বাংলাদেশকে তিস্তার ন্যায্য পানি দেয়ার কোন প্রয়োজন মনে করেননি। অপরদিকে  আমাদের মাননীয় প্রধানমন্ত্রী শেখ হাসিনা ভারতের মাননীয় প্রেসিডেন্ট জনাব প্রণব মুখার্জিকে তার পারিবারিক বন্ধু হিসেবে উল্লেখ করলেও, সেই পারিবারিক বন্ধু হতে এখনো তিনি দেশের জন্য তিস্তার পানি আনতে পারেনি। অথচ তিস্তার পানি আমাদের প্রতি ভারতের দয়া বা অনুগ্রহ নয়, বরং তিস্তার পানি হচ্ছে আমাদের আইনগত এবং ন্যায্য অধিকার। কারণ তিস্তা ভারত এবং বাংলাদেশের ওপর দিয়ে বয়ে যাওয়া একটি আন্তর্জাতিক নদী, যার ওপর প্রতিটি দেশের অধিকার রয়েছে। আর বন্ধু যখন তার বন্ধুকে ন্যায্য অধিকারও দেয় না, তখন সাহায্য এবং সহযোগিতার হাত কতটুকু বাড়বে তাতো বুদ্ধিমান ব্যক্তিদের কাছে সহজেই অনুমেয় । 
ভারতের মতো বাংলাদেশও একটি স্বাধীন-সার্বভৌম দেশ। বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা অর্জনে ভারত সহযোগিতা করেছিল। বিনিময়ে ভারত চায় বাংলাদেশ তার আনুগত্য করুক এবং ভারতের চাওয়াগুলো পূরণ করুক। কিন্তু বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা অর্জনে ভারতের সহযোগিতার পেছনে বাংলাদেশের জনগণের জন্য তার ভালোবাসা কাজ করেনি। কাজ করেছে শত্রুকে দুর্বল করার নীতি। রাজনীতির সেই ঐতিহাসিক সমীকরণ, যেখানে বলা আছে শত্রুর শত্রু বন্ধু, সেই সমীকরণের বাস্তবায়ন করেছে মাত্র। চির শত্রু পাকিস্তানকে দ্বিখ-িত করার মোক্ষম সুযোগ হাতছাড়া করার মতো বেকুব লোক অন্ততপক্ষে ভারতীয়রা নেতারা নন। আর তাই বাংলাদেশের মানুষদের স্বাধীনতার জন্য ভারত সাহায্যের হাত বাড়িয়ে দিলেও, কাশ্মীর, পাঞ্জাব আর আসামের মানুষদের স্বাধীনতার জন্য ভারতের কোন সহযোগিতা নেই বরং সেই সব অঞ্চলের স্বাধীনতাকামীদের ওপর ভারত চালাচ্ছে ভয়াবহ দমন-নির্যাতন। রাজনীতির এই সমীকরণ আজ আমাদেরকে বুঝতে হবে, না হলে অঙ্ক বরাবরই ভুল হবে। আর তাই আওয়ামী লীগ সরকারের মন্ত্রী-এমপিরা ট্রানজিটের বিনিমিয়ে ভারতের কাছ থেকে বিলিয়ন ডলার আয় এবং বাংলাদেশকে সিঙ্গাপুর বানানোর স্বপ্ন দেখালেও, বাস্তবে তার কিছুই হয়নি। ট্রানজিটের বিনিময়ে ভারত থেকে বিলিয়ন ডলারও আয় হয়নি, দেশটাও সিঙ্গাপুর হয়নি। বরং ভারতীয় ট্রাকের চাকায় পিষ্ঠ হয়ে এদেশের রাস্তাঘাটে বিরাট বিরাট গর্ত সৃষ্টি হয়েছে। আর ভারতীয় পণ্য পরিবহনের স্বার্থে  তিতাস নদীর বুকে  জেগে ওঠেছিল বিশাল একটি রাস্তা, যার ফলে তিতাস হারিয়েছিল তার সৌন্দর্য এবং নাব্যতা। তাই দেশ প্রেমিক জনগণ ভারতের কল্যাণে এখন আর  সিঙ্গাপুর হবার স্বপ্ন দেখে না, বরং সিকিমের মতো স্বাধীনতা হারিয়ে পরাধীন হবার আতঙ্কে উদ্বিগ্ন ।   
বাংলাদেশের চারদিকেই ভারত। ভারত দীর্ঘদিন থেকেই বাংলাদেশের ওপর দিয়ে ট্রানজিট চাচ্ছে, চট্টগ্রাম এবং মংলাবন্দর ব্যবহার করতে চাচ্ছে, যার মূল উদ্দেশ্য সেভেন সিস্টার্স নামে পরিচিত সাতটি রাজ্যে সহজে মালামাল পরিবহন করা। কিন্তু ভারত যেটা চাচ্ছে সেটা কোন ট্রানজিট নয় বরং করিডোর। কারণ এ ক্ষেত্রে ভারত থেকে যাত্রা শুরু হয়ে বাংলাদেশের ওপর দিয়ে আবার ভারতে ঢুকবে। এরশাদ এবং বিএনপি সরকার ভারতকে এই করিডোর সুবিধা না দিলেও, আওয়ামী লীগ সরকার বরাবরই ভারতকে করিডোর সুবিধা দিতে আগ্রহী। অথচ এতে বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা-সার্বভৌমত্ব এবং নিরাপত্তা বিঘিœত হবে। কিন্তু অওয়ামী লীগ সরকারের সে দিকে কোন খেয়াল নেই। ভারতের চাওয়া-পাওয়া সব বিনা শর্তে পূরণ করে চলেছে। ভারতের চাহিদা অনুসারে আসামের স্বাধীনতা সংগ্রামীদেরকে গ্রেফতার করে ভারতের হাতে তুলে দিচ্ছে। ভারতকে তার চাওয়ার সবই দিয়ে যাচ্ছে, কিন্তু ভারত কিছুই দিচ্ছে না। ভারত ফারাক্কায় বাঁধ দিয়ে পানিতে মারছে, তিস্তার পানি দিচ্ছে না, চুক্তিও করছে না। নির্মাণ করছে টিপাইমুখ বাঁধ। সীমান্তে বিএসএফ প্রায়ই এদেশের নিরীহ মানুষদেরকে পাখির মতো গুলী করে হত্যা করছে। বাংলাদেশের ভেতর দিয়ে পণ্য পরিবহন করছে কোন ফি ছাড়াই। ভারতের প্রতিটি টিভি চ্যানেল বাংলাদেশের আকাশে উন্মুক্ত হলেও , বাংলাদেশের একটি টিভি চ্যানেলও ভারতের আকাশে উন্মুক্ত নয়। ভারতীয় ব্যবসায়ীরা বাংলাদেশের ব্যবসা-বাণিজ্যের নিয়ন্ত্রণ নিচ্ছে। টেলিফোন, গার্মেন্টস, টেক্সটাইল, গাড়ি সবই এখন ভারতীয়দের কব্জায় চলে যাচ্ছে। সুন্দরবনে রামপাল বিদ্যুৎ কেন্দ্র নির্মাণ করছে, যার ফলে সুন্দরবনের জীববৈচিত্র্য ধ্বংস হবে। বাংলাদেশ সরকারের সাথে কোন ধরনের লিখিত চুক্তি ছাড়াই ভারত নারায়ণগঞ্জে কন্টেইনার পোর্ট নির্মাণের উদ্যোগ নিয়েছে। এর সম্ভাব্যতা যাচাইয়ে ইতোমধ্যেই ভারত সরকার দরপত্র ও আহ্বান করেছে। কিন্তু সরকারের এদিকে কোন খেয়াল নেই। এসব আমাদের নতজানু পররাষ্ট্রনীতির ফসল। মূলত পক্ষে ভারতের একের পর এক দাবিসমূহ আওয়ামী লীগ সরকার পূর্ণ করায়, ভারতের কোন দাবিকে প্রত্যাখ্যান করার শক্তি বর্তমান সরকার হারিয়ে ফেলেছে। আর ভারতের কাছ থেকে কিছু আদায় করার শক্তিও সরকার হারিয়ে ফেলেছে অর্থাৎ দরকষাকষির টেবিলে সরকার দুর্বল হয়ে পড়েছে। তাই ভারতকে সব দিয়েও, আওয়ামী লীগ সরকার ভারতের কাছ থেকে তিস্তার পানির ন্যায্য অধিকারও আদায় করতে পারেনি। রাষ্ট্রীয় ইস্যুতে কোন চুক্তি করার ক্ষেত্রে ভারত সরকার সে দেশের বিরোধী রাজনৈতিক দলের সাথে আলোচনা করে এবং সবার মতামতের ভিত্তিতে সিদ্ধান্ত নেয়। বিরোধী দলের অমতে গুরুত্বপূর্ণ কোন সিদ্ধান্ত নেয় না। পশ্চিমবঙ্গের মুখ্যমন্ত্রী মমতার বিরোধিতার মুখে তিস্তা ইস্যুতে প্রধানমন্ত্রী মনমোহন সিংয়ের পিছু হটার কথা সবারই জানা। কিন্তু ট্রানজিটের নামে ভারতকে করিডোর প্রদানের মতো জাতীয় গুরুত্বপূর্ণ ইস্যুতেও আমাদের সরকার দেশের প্রধান বিরোধী দলগুলোর সাথে কোন আলোচনা করেনি, করার প্রয়োজনীয়তাও মনে করেনি। অধিকন্তু এর সমালোচনাকারীদেরকে স্বাধীনতাবিরোধী হিসেবে আখ্যায়িত করতে পিছপা হয়নি। আর তিস্তার পানি যে বাংলাদেশকে দিবে না তা ইতোমধ্যে ভারতীয় কর্মকা-ে প্রতিফলিত হয়েছে। কারণ তিস্তার উজানে ভারত ইতোমধ্যেই একাধিক প্রকল্প হাতে নিয়েছে, যার ফলে এই প্রকল্পসমূহ চালু না রেখে বাংলাদেশকে ভারত পানি দিবে, এটা কল্পকাহিনী ছাড়া আর কিছুই নয়। এ কথাটি সত্য বলেই ভারতের বন্ধু হয়েও আওয়ামী লীগ সরকারের পররাষ্ট্রমন্ত্রী ডা. দিপু মনিকে এবারো ভারত থেকে খালি হাতেই ফিরতে হয়েছে। ফলে তিস্তা চুক্তি ও হয়নি এবং ভবিষ্যতেও হবার সম্ভাবনা নেই । দরকষাকষির টেবিলে আগে সব দিয়ে দিলে পরে যে কিছুই আদায় করা যায় না, তা আবারো প্রমাণিত হল। এতকিছুর পরও আশার কথা হচ্ছে আওয়ামী লীগের এই ব্যর্থতার বিরুদ্ধে আপামর জনতা আজ জেগে ওঠেছে ।   





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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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