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Thursday, March 10, 2016

[mukto-mona] Secularism is a threat to the power of mullahs so they are opposed to it. It is no threat to Islam. : Ali Shaheen



Re: {PFC-Friends}  সংবিধান থেকে রাষ্ট্রধর্ম 'ইসলাম' তুলে দেওয়া এবং বাংলাদেশের ভবিষ্যত পরিণতি
 
On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 10:35 PM, Ali Shaheen <alishaheen2010@gmail.com> wrote:

Secularism has paved the way towards equal rights and the abolition of slavery and other discriminations.  Human rights evolve with time and secularism allows this evolution.  Current interpretations of Islam are preventing the evolution of Islam as well as human rights within Islam by reverting back to the 7th. century.  If US had been a Christian State and slavery was justified in Christianity it may not have been abolished.  Maybe they would have been demanding that people live like Christ did!

Christianity has evolved with time and continues to do so.  No one is suggesting that Christians should live the way Christ lived.  Rather they say we should learn from his example and follow the principles he taught.  Christian women have been leaders in fighting for women's rights and they have been helped by men.  They continue to struggle against patriarchy in their faith too.  But no one wants to live in a Christian state either.  Those who believe in fairness and justice won't want to impose a religious state on anyone.  

Yes BD is not an Islamic state like Pakistan -yet!  But unless you have been living under a rock you are probably aware of rising extremism too. Do you think all those madrasah graduates won't create the same havoc in BD that they are doing in Pakistan?  Our Constitution talks of a secular Islamic state which is an oxymoron like being a little bit pregnant.  I have given you lots of examples of why Islamic states are discriminatory so I really don't want to repeat myself now.  

Equality means having the same entitlements now.  And where there is discrimination one needs to be able to address it within the legal framework.  Islamic states give special privileges to male Muslims and there is no spin that can alter that fact.  

As you know that is precisely the argument which ISIS is using to justify slavery, rape slaves and practice male supremacy.  The person who has power uses it to impose a perversion of Islam.  And Saudi Arabia which is considered the custodian of the Kaaba and the leader of the Muslim world shares the same ideology as ISIS.  Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have both used their status as Islamic states to violate human rights and especially women's rights.  Same is true in Iran which allows child marriages.  Why?  Because it is considered Islamic.  Recently a so called Islamic scholar has said it is okay to rape slaves.  In an Islamic state there can be no protection against the misinterpretation of Islam by so called scholars.  In a secular state one has recourse to make law that is consistent with the UN declaration of human rights regardless of what some crazy mulla says.  In Pakistan there is an unelected Council of Islamic Ideology consists of mullahs who declare any law against honour killing, DNA testing for rape and child marriages un-Islamic.  That is the sort of thing we will have to look forward to if we don't insist on keeping BD a secular state.

Here is the real issue - secularism is a threat to the power of mullahs so they are opposed to it.  It is no threat to Islam.  Given the problems we are seeing with rising Muslim extremism, I am flabbergasted that educated Muslims are so brainwashed that even they are not pushing for secular states.  It is really shameful.  Frankly I am more free to practice Islam in Canada and would not want to practice what passes for Islam in Islamic states.  

People who don't want to live in a Christian state have no business promoting an Islamic state back home.  I think Muslims are out of touch with empathy and compassion.  They should learn the meaning of Rahman and Raheem and practice it instead of demanding the brutality of Islamic states.  But that is probably beyond their comprehension.  People who have a fanatical mindset don't want equal rights for all.  Their racism will demand the supremacy of male Muslims in an Islamic state.  And given the illiteracy and Saudi influence the consequences will be dire.  But as the Quran says God does not change the condition of a people until they change themselves.  We don't seem to have shed enough blood yet!

You know we had a secular tradition in Islamic history too where there was a separation between the ulema, the military and the administration with the Khalifa to oversee these branches.  He was the defender of the faith just like the King of England.  England evolved towards democracy and secularism and we regressed towards Salafism and the way of life of our ancestors. 

Anyway I have nothing more to add.



Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 10, 2016, at 6:51 PM, Syed Haque <syedhaque@hotmail.com> wrote:

You said: "The important lesson from Shabana Azmi's story is that she could bring it to the media and demand something be done about the discrimination.  In a secular state she has the law on her side." Yes indeed she went to the media to make aware of her issues. 


I am afraid I don't agree with a few items you talked about.

 

People with multiple race and religion immigrated to the USA. Here the founders of the constitution, who were educated elites (some were slave owners), vigorously debated and later adopted a framework.  

 

People paid bloody price before slavery was abolished through the civil war. It was not just because of secularism people somehow started enjoying equal rights.

 

"The Fourteenth Amendment (Amendment XIV) to the United States Constitution was adopted on July 9, 1868, as one of the Reconstruction Amendments. The amendment addresses citizenship rights and equal protection of the laws, and was proposed in response to issues related to former slaves following the American Civil War. The amendment was bitterly contested, particularly by Southern states, which were forced to ratify it in order for them to regain representation in Congress." 

 

Seriously, in a country where people are easily sold, political leaders reward criminals to stay in power somehow all of a sudden secularism will give genuine rights to all. I don't think so. In fact, we need to find out whether that's what people really want through true representation else it would add more tension, division and extremism. For this you need a genuine leader who not only believes in humanity and justice for all but practices the same motto.

 

BD is not an Islamic Republic like Pakistan. Essentially, if you think current safeguard is not enough for the minorities, then additional safeguards can still be implemented within the current framework through true representation instead of giving a new label "secularism".

 

Lot of people know the big issue with the secularism is to define what is right and wrong. You can say it is my right to enjoy homosexual parade in Dhaka but religious people would shout wrong, wrong. So where would you draw the line.


At the end if you still believe secularism is the only way, then I have nothing more to say. I live this up to the people of BD to find a solution through peaceful means.

 




CC: nazir0101@gmail.com
From: alishaheen2010@gmail.com
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Re: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Fwd: সংবিধান থেকে রাষ্ট্রধর্ম 'ইসলাম' তুলে দেওয়া এবং বাংলাদেশের ভবিষ্যত পরিণতি
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2016 12:56:17 -0500
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com

So Shabana Azmi can't buy a home and the homes of minorities are being burned in all parts of South Asia. Secularism is not the only solution but it is the foundation of creating a just society.  If this is not happening in the West it is because there is secularism and rule of law and compulsory education and better sharing of power and resources and less overt and blatant corruption.   We have to address all those things too but it rests on the foundation of a legal framework where the State has to be neutral to all religions ensure freedom of religion for all.  

Islamic States open the door to all kinds of inequities and Saudi Arabia is not alone.  Human rights are not negotiable and cannot be left to the generosity and goodwill of the majority.  They must be legally protected even if some countries are negligent in implementing those laws.

I agree that secularism only addresses the legal framework within the constitution.  It has to be accompanied by reforming the madrasahs into full fledged schools where students can learn the diverse, tolerant and enlightened Islam along with all all other subjects so that they can find proper jobs.  All this can be done in a secular state.  

With our human resources we could become the call centre capital of the world.  But first we have to introduce English and allow people to become competitive instead of having to hire Indians as consultants.

The important lesson from Shabana Azmi's story is that she could bring it to the media and demand something be done about the discrimination.  In a secular state she has the law on her side.  Secularism is no panacea but it is the first step in addressing inequities.  Without it things would be worse.  Sectarianism, communalism and discrimination can be addressed legally in secular states because the law does not allow discrimination - why is that so hard to understand?  Of course it will not eradicate bigotry which requires more education and community building but at least you are legally bound.  Maybe you can't eradicate child marriages but if it is illegal at least you can prevent or prosecute those who practice it.  Without a law there is no recourse.  To say that secularism doesn't end discrimination is like saying laws don't stop people from committing murder.  But you still need laws you know!

No one has yet been able to answer why we Muslims seek secularism in the West but don't want it back home.  That double standard smacks of bigotry to me.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 9, 2016, at 9:52 PM, Syed Haque <syedhaque@hotmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the response.

Shabana Azmi, a former MP said: "Indian democracy is unfair to Muslims." She couldn't buy a house in Mumbai because she is a Muslim.  

I would like to say something along the problems you brought. It is not easy to change people's mindset through the implementation of secularism if we don't inject true meaning of Islam through the grassroots level.

Stupid fatwas based on personnel interpretations can mold Sharia. This dilutes the core values given in Quran and Sunnah. Yes, Saudi brand of Islam has a problem. 






Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Re: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Fwd: সংবিধান থেকে রাষ্ট্রধর্ম 'ইসলাম' তুলে দেওয়া এবং বাংলাদেশের ভবিষ্যত পরিণতি
From: alishaheen2010@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 19:21:33 -0500
CC: nazir0101@gmail.com
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com

Here is the problem:  when there are people who misinterpret the beauty of Islam then creating an Islamic State clears the way for people who misinterpret Islam to come to power.  They may want to impose shariah law.  But there are 4 schools of shariah so which school of shariah law will we get?  Will they justify child marriage?  Do you have a 9 year old granddaughter? Can you see her married?  Maybe you are educated and rich enough to say no, but can a poor illiterate man?  What if they say women cannot work?  How will widows and divorcees feed their family? What if women are banned from driving or travelling alone?  These are just a few examples of what actually happens in some Islamic States.  

Would you like a Council of Islamic Ideology giving fatwas that children marriage is legal, you need 4 witnesses for rape and banning "honour" killings is un-Islamic?  This happens in Pakistan with whom we shared a history for 24 years.  After independence Saudi Arabia gave money to both Pakistan and Bangladesh then set up madrasahs everywhere.  Now those madrasah graduates are creating havoc in both countries.  We must not sell our conscience for oil money the way Pakistan has.  

Secularism is not atheism.  It just means religion is a private matter and all religions are equal before the State.  It is like having a law that says you cannot kill or steal.  It does not mean that people stop murdering or stealing.  It means that there is a law to protect you against murder and theft and you can use that law to have your rights respected and justice when you are wronged.

Of course there must be a balance between all sectors of society but human rights are not negotiable and you must IN LAW be entitled to the same rights as a Christian in America or a Hindu in India.  In a secular state you have that right.  No one can say sorry these jobs are reserved only for Hindus because this is a Hindu State.  You would have the right to file a grievance.  But if an Islamic State says you have to be Muslim to practice law because we have shariah law then no non-Muslim can work as a lawyer.  That is systemic discrimination.  In a secular state laws are made on the basis of research and reason and any citizen is entitled to practice provided they have the qualifications.  

Justice is an Islamic value and justice in the 21st century means equal rights for all human beings not preferential treatment for male Muslims which is what those who want Islamic states are after.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 9, 2016, at 4:19 PM, Syed Haque <syedhaque@hotmail.com> wrote:

Just and FYI - I didn't upload this video!


From: syedhaque@hotmail.com
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com
CC: nazir0101@gmail.com
Subject: RE: {PFC-Friends} Re: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Fwd: সংবিধান থেকে রাষ্ট্রধর্ম 'ইসলাম' তুলে দেওয়া এবং বাংলাদেশের ভবিষ্যত পরিণতি
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 16:18:01 -0500

I think connection between God and People is subtle in the U.S. government. You can observe this when left and right groups fight over the issues of Judo-Christian foundation like "In God We Trust", "Under God" in the pledge of allegiance, etc.   Right group claims the neutrality in constitution is not to give any sect of Christianity a preferential treatment. I don't know how much of this claim is true.

Does Islam give right to practice whatever faith you believe? Absolutely - as long is you don't interfere with the civic peace. It is like if majority people think it is better to practice DADT by the homosexuals to keep peace in the society, then would you go public and put yourself at a risk.  

Problem is ignorant fanatics misinterprets the beauty of Islam. It is not Islam to blame for this misapprehension or pretension to justify wrongdoings. 

People of different mindsets and parties came together and created the U.S. constitution. Likewise, I think before any amendment is made in the constitution, a true representation of the people is necessary.

Any system of government, secular or religious you adopt,  should create a balance so the rights of majority is not affected to protect the minority and vice versa else equilibrium will shift and tension will rise.

Regards,

SH



 

CC: nazir0101@gmail.com
From: alishaheen2010@gmail.com
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Re: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Fwd: সংবিধান থেকে রাষ্ট্রধর্ম 'ইসলাম' তুলে দেওয়া এবং বাংলাদেশের ভবিষ্যত পরিণতি
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 13:24:05 -0500
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com

The countries you mention are actually secular states.  Secular states don't have a "national religion".  Legally in a secular state all religions are equal and the role of the state is to be neutral to all religions and to ensure freedom of religion to all.  Why is that a problem?

Secularism in any country takes on the flavour of its majority population.  So in the West it has a Christian flavour, in India it has a Hindu flavour, in Buddhist majority countries it would have a Buddhist flavour and in Bangladesh it has a Muslim flavour.  The religion of the majority population can never be under threat in a secular country.

Would people living in America want its name changed to the Christian States of America?  Why are we not willing to offer religious minorities in our homeland the same rights we fight for and enjoy here?   And how insecure are we to think we don't have the responsibility to protect minorities in our midst.

We need a movement to return to the wording of the 1972 Constitution.  Not a constitution that was amended following a military coup.  The 1972 Constitution is what the people of Bangladesh agreed to following independence.  The Constitution should not be destroyed by political bickering between AL, BNP and Jamaat.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 7, 2016, at 6:02 PM, 'Razzak Syed' via PFC-Friends <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Even India's national religion is Hinduism, USA,UK,Australia and Germany their national religion is Christianity, Japan,China,Korea,Vietnam national religion is Buddhism, why Bangladesh has more than 90% Muslims can't have Islam as national religion? when other religions availing national holiday on their religious festival? UK,USA,Australia,Canada don't declare public holidays other than the Christianity!!


BAL government is a murtad government. How they allow someone dare to file such case in the courts.

Capt. Razzak A. Syed


Sent from my iPhone


On 8 Mar 2016, at 00:07, Ali Shaheen <alishaheen2010@gmail.com> wrote:

How can BD be a "Godless land" when the overwhelming majority of the people practice Islam?  We must restore the wording of the 1972 Constitution.  A secular constitution protects the rights of all its citizens regardless of religion or sect.  We don't want to be an Islamic State like Pakistan where minorities are persecuted with blasphemy laws and Shias and Ahmedis are blown up.  Every Muslim with a conscience must support the restoration of the 1972 Constitution.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 7, 2016, at 11:43 AM, Rezaul Karim <rezaulkarim617@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank You for the post.

 It's alarming, no doubt, seeing what happened in Turkey. We need not only an awareness but a movement to resist this heinous plan to make it a Godless land..
Hope, everyone take a notice of this and speak out. 
I've  posted it in my facebook.
~ Rezaul karim


2016-03-07 11:00 GMT-05:00 Mohamed Nazir <nazir0101@gmail.com>:



সংবিধান থেকে রাষ্ট্রধর্ম 'ইসলাম' তুলে দেওয়া এবং বাংলাদেশের ভবিষ্যত পরিণতি
গত কয়েকদিন যাবত খবর আসছে, বাংলাদেশের সংবিধান থেকে নাকি রাষ্ট্রধর্ম ইসলাম তুলে দেওয়া হতে পারে। এ কারণে ২৮ বছর আগে সুপ্রীম কোর্টে দায়েরকৃত একটি আবেদন পুনরায় তোলা হয়েছে এবং আগামী ২৭ মার্চ শুনানীর মাধ্যমে বিষয়টি নিয়ে চূড়ান্ত ফয়সালা আসতে পারে বলে অনেকে মনে করছেন।
অনেকেই হয়ত এখন বুঝতে পারছেন না, সংবিধান থেকে রাষ্ট্রধর্ম ইসলাম তুলে দেওয়া হলে কি পরিণতি ঘটতে পারে বাংলাদেশের। এ বিষয়টি বুঝতে হলে আপনাকে তুরষ্কের ইতিহাস সম্পর্কে জানা প্রয়োজন। তুরষ্কে আগে ইসলামী খিলাফত ব্যবস্থা। তবে প্রথম বিশ্বযুদ্ধের পর সেটা তুলে দেওয়া হয়। সে সময় কামাল আতাতুর্ক তুর্কী প্রজাতন্ত্র প্রতিষ্ঠা করে, এবং ইসলামের বদলে একটি সেক্যুলার সিস্টেম চালু করে। কামাল আতাতুর্ক ১৯২৮ সালের ১০ এপ্রিল তুর্কী সংবিধান হতে ধর্ম সংক্রান্ত সব কথাই বাদ দিয়ে দেয়। ফলে ইসলাম আর তুরস্কের রাষ্ট্রধর্ম থাকে না। প্রতিষ্ঠা হয় ধর্ম নিরপেক্ষ তুরষ্কের।
তুর্কী সংবিধান থেকে রাষ্ট্রধর্ম 'ইসলাম' তুলে দেয়ার পর কি কি ঘটেছিলো আসুন দেখি-
১) শিশুদের ইসলামী শিক্ষা নিষিদ্ধ করা হয়।
২) ধর্ম মন্ত্রণালয়, মাদরাসা-মসজিদ বন্ধ করে দেওয়া হয় এবং হজ্জ-ওমরা যাত্রা নিষিদ্ধ করা হয়।
৩) বড় বড় মসজিদগুলোতে নামায বন্ধ করে দিয়ে সেগুলোকে জাদুঘর হিসেবে উন্মুক্ত করে দেওয়া হয়। তুরস্কের সর্ববৃহৎ মসজিদ 'আয়া ছুফিয়া'কে রূপান্তরিত করেছিলেন সরকারি জাদুঘরে।
৪) নারীদের জন্য হিজাব পরিধান বন্ধ করে দেওয়া হয়। সরকারি নির্দেশে তুর্কী পুলিশ রাস্তায় বের হওয়া মুসলিম মহিলাদের ওড়না কেড়ে নিয়ে ছিঁড়ে ফেলত।
৫) আরবী অক্ষরের ব্যবহার নিষিদ্ধ হয়। আরবীতে কুরআন পড়া, নামাজ পড়া ও আজান দেওয়া নিষিদ্ধ হয়।
৬) তুর্কী ভাষা আরবী হরফে না লিখে ল্যাটিন হরফে লিখতে হতো।
৭) সাপ্তাহিক ছুটি হিসেবে রবিবারকে নির্ধারণ করা হয়।
৮) তুরস্কবাসীকে ভিন্ন ধরণের পোষাক পরতে বাধ্য করা হয়।
৮) মুসলমানদের ধর্মীয় উৎসব ঈদকে বর্জনীয় ঘোষনা করা হয়।
৯) তুরস্কের অধীন আজারবাইজানকে রাশিয়ার কাছে বিক্রি করে দেওয়া হয়।
১০) বক্তৃতা এবং বিবৃতিতে নিয়মিত ইসলাম ও ইসলামী পরিভাষাসমূহ নিয়ে মিথ্যাচার ও কুৎসা রটনা করে সেগুলো বর্জনের প্রতি সবাইকে আদেশ-নিষেধ করা হয়।
১১) সরকারী লোকদের জামাতে নামায পড়া নিষিদ্ধ হয়।
১২) ইসলামী নিয়ম অনুযায়ী সালাম দেওয়াও নিষিদ্ধ করা হয় । এর পরিবর্তে সুপ্রভাত (Good Morning) বিদায় (Good Bye) ও হ্যান্ডশেক রেওয়াজ প্রবর্তিত হয়।
১৩) ইমাম-মুফতীদের পাগড়ি ও জুব্বা পরা নিষিদ্ধ করা হয়।
১৪) হিজরী সন উঠিয়ে দিয়ে ইংরেজী সন চালু করা হয়
১৬) আরবী ভাষায় নাম রাখা নিষিদ্ধ হয়। এর বদলে তুর্কী ভাষায় বাধ্যতামূলক নাম রাখতে হয়।
১৭) আলেমদের প্রতিষ্ঠানগুলো ভেঙ্গে দেয়া হয় এবং আলেমদেরকে প্রজতন্ত্রে শত্রু হিসিবে চিহ্নিত করা হয়। কোন আলেম তার বিরুদ্ধাচরণ করলে তাকে সাথে হত্যা করা হয়। এছাড়া ওয়াকফ সম্পত্তি কেড়ে নিয়ে আলেমদের অর্থনৈতিকভাবে বিপর্যস্ত করা হয়।
এখানে লক্ষণীয় যে, এ ঘটনাগুলো হচ্ছে আজ থেকে প্রায় ৯০ বছর আগে এবং তা করা হয়েছিলো উছমানিয় খেলাফত বন্ধ করার পর। বলাবাহুল্য সে সময় মানুষের মধ্যে জোর ইসলামী চেতনা দৃঢ় থাকার পরও এতটা এগ্রেসিভ হতে পেরেছিলো কামাল আতার্তুক। কিন্তু এখন তো বাংলাদেশের মানুষের ধর্মীয় চেতনা অনেকটাই দুর্বল। তার উপর কামাল আতার্তুক সে সময় যা যা করেছে তার অনেকগুলোই ইতিমধ্যে বাংলাদেশে জারি করা হয়েছে বা চেষ্টা চলছে। তবে শুধু সংবিধানে রাষ্ট্রধর্ম ইসলাম দেখে পুরোপুরি আইনত জারি করা যাচ্ছে না। কিন্তু সংবিধান থেকে রাষ্ট্র ইসলাম তুলে দেওয়ার সাথে সাথে কামাল আতাতুর্ক কেন, তার থেকে বহুগুন কঠিনভাবে বাংলাদেশ থেকে নির্মূল করা হবে ইসলাম ধর্মকে, এটা বলা যায় নিশ্চিত।
আমার মনে হয়, এ ব্যাপারে বাংলাদেশের মানুষের সতর্ক হওয়া জরুরী । কারণ আর মাত্র ২০ দিন পরেই সুপ্রীম কোর্টে অনুষ্ঠিত হচ্ছে 'ইসলাম ধর্ম' তুলে দেওয়া সংক্রান্ত চূড়ান্ত শুনানী। আর একবার যদি আইন জারি হয়ে যায়, তবে তা পরিবর্তন করা সহজ নয়।
সত্যিই আজ বাংলাদেশের আকাশের ঘনকালো মেঘের ঘনঘটা, মনে হচ্ছে বাংলাদেশের মুসলমানদের জন্য শিঘ্রই বড় কোন দুর্যোগ আসছে, দেখা যাক কি হয়।
প্রয়োজনীয় সূত্র:
১) বাংলাদেশের রাষ্ট্রধর্ম ইসলাম আর নাও থাকতে পারে:
http://goo.gl/73U1Fs
২) ২৮ বছর পর শুনানিতে রাষ্ট্রধর্ম ইসলাম চ্যালেঞ্জের মামলা : http://goo.gl/ywNpXf
৩) রাষ্ট্রধর্ম ইসলামের চ্যালেঞ্জ মামলার শুনানি ২৭ মার্চ
http://goo.gl/2SR0Ol
৪) ইসলামবিদ্বেষ ও ইসলামবিরোধীতার অপর নাম : কামাল আতাতুর্ক:
http://goo.gl/TE67rf
৫) শুনুন কামালের আমলের তুর্কি ভাষার আযান: https://youtu.be/OUIgLy1L3x4


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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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[mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} RE: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Bdesh's National Anthem



 Typical of insincere debaters, now you change the goal posts. Okay.  I'm ready to answer all points, point by point.  But by the time I do so there will another set of 'khisti' against the song.  I've been dealing with this for the last 20 yrs.


          I thought the Zindabadwalla Zombies were wiping heartbroken tears at the mistreatment of Gagan Harkara by that evil Rabindranath stealing his composition.  THEFT  -- they cried! Theft of intellectual property! Didn't Rabindranath steal from Lalan also while he was at Shilaidaha? Turns out Gagan was not the author of 'ami kothay pabo tare',  the tune of which song was adapted for "Amar sonar Bangla".


The problem with uncultured morons is not just their ignorance about cultural matters. It is their insistence on exhibiting their ignorance.   


  People all over Bangladesh, people of small education (especially) are not uncultured.  They know the value of our National Anthem lies in its 'close to the earth' baul tune and no one, other than some half-wit 'foreigner', thinks a traditional baul tune has to have an AUTHOR.  Rabindranath heard his postman at Shilaidaha, Bangladesh, Gagan, sing this composition of 'ami kothay pabo tare, amar moner manush je re'.  Nabani Das Baul popularized the song in later years, and I heard his rendition in my childhood on radio.   The composer of this song is unknown.  ONLY AN IDIOT WOULD ASSUME THAT GAGAN, THE POSTMAN, WAS THE ORIGINAL COMPOSER.





From: Jalal Uddin Khan <jukhan@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 1:58 AM
To: Farida Majid
Cc: Tanvir Nowaz; Masud Ali; Ranu Chowdhury; BANGLADESH C.FORUM; pfc-friends@googlegroups.com; la-discussion@googlegroups.com; notun Bangladesh; Zoglul Husain; Mohammad Gani
Subject: Re: [LA-Discussion] FW: {PFC-Friends} RE: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Bdesh's National Anthem
 

I hope the FM radio stops chirping n chattering about only one aspect. There r thousands of patriotic folk or baul songs close to earth, so why should Amar sonar bangla be considered special, especially when it was written for the undivided Bengal (east and west together) and to protest the formation of east Bengal (Bangladesh and Assam). Secondly,  as it was written in 1906 or so, it is not directly connected with and rooted in the circumstances of the birth and struggle of the modern Bangladesh. Thirdly, its imagery--mango groves and banyan tree-- is hardly representative of modern Bangladesh.  Fourth, it was not written by a native of Bangladesh,  by a son of the soil. Fifth, the song is not acceptable to the pious, Muslim majority Bangladesh.  Sixth, its slow moving lyricism is far from being exciting and arousing and awakening.




  The problem with uncultured morons is not just their ignorance about cultural matters. It is their insistence of exhibiting their ignorance.

     People all over Bangladesh, people of small education (especially) are not uncultured.  They know the value of our National Anthem lies in its 'close to the earth' baul tune and no one, other than some half-wit 'foreigner', thinks a traditional baul tune has to have an AUTHOR.  Rabindranath heard his postman at Shilaidaha, Bangladesh, Gagan, sing this composition of 'ami kothay pabo tare, amar moner manush je re'.  Nabani Das Baul popularized the song in later years, and I heard his rendition in my childhood on radio.   The composer of this song is unknown.  ONLY AN IDIOT WOULD ASSUME THAT GAGAN, THE POSTMAN, WAS THE ORIGINAL COMPOSER.

          





From: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Abid Bahar <abid.bahar@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 9, 2016 10:02 PM
To: la-discussion@googlegroups.com; pfc-friends@googlegroups.com; BDPANA@yahoogroups.com; Ranu Chowdhury; Mohammad Gani; BANGLADESH C.FORUM; Zoglul Husain; Jalal Khan; bd_journalists@yahoogroups.com; bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com; Masud Ali; notun Bangladesh; Tanvir Nowaz
Subject: Re: [LA-Discussion] FW: {PFC-Friends} RE: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Bdesh's National Anthem
 
Khoniker Othethee,
True, on the Japanese flag there is the image of the Sun. But, you should know that when Bangladeshis were preparing the flag they had no problem the Sun above their head. Therefore, it couldn't be a matter of plagiarism. The Sun is universal but Gagan Harkora was not the Sun. He was the author of a song that Tagore plagiarized. Surely, when Bangladeshis talk about refom/ change the plagiarized/ song/ anthem, surely it is going to hurt the IndianSeb Sena  razakars

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Zoglul Husain <zoglul@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
Except for "Khoniker Otithee", I fully or partly agree with all others in this thread on the question of national anthem. Bangladesh should have held an open competition among Bangladeshi writers, composers, etc. for its anthem. 

The 2008 and 2014 elections were rigged, and hence the govts since the 2008 election are illegal, and their amendments to the constitution are illegal. But whatever we say about the untenable situation, the govt. said that they had to hold the 2014 election for 'constitutional requirement', and Sujatha Singh said the same thing! However, the first 10 lines of Tagore's 'Sonar Bangla' as the anthem have been included in the constitution (Please see: 4. (1) The national anthem of the Republic is the first ten lines of "Amar Sonar Bangla"). Thus, to change the anthem, one needs to amend the constitution, which in turn needs a whole lot of political change. 

However, discussions and mobilisation of opinion can go on. If you want to form a group, forum, 'porishod', etc., that is also OK. I will be at your service as an ordinary member. It needs propagating the ideas and mobilising opinion.




From: zoglul@hotmail.co.uk
To: khoniker.othithee@yahoo.com; ranu51@hotmail.com; jukhan@gmail.com; abidbahar@yahoo.com
CC: shahadathussaini@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: {PFC-Friends} RE: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Bdesh's National Anthem
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 23:35:04 +0000




Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 20:56:05 +0000
From: khoniker.othithee@yahoo.com
To: khoniker.othithee@yahoo.com
CC: zahidhassan_2000@yahoo.com; rashedanam1971@gmail.com; zoglul@hotmail.co.uk; mgani69@gmail.com; sakhter1015@gmail.com; zainul321@yahoo.com; kazi4986@yahoo.com; rezaulkarim617@gmail.com; druhfarida@gmail.com; bdmailer@gmail.com; farahmina@gmail.com; jhelali2000@yahoo.com; kmamalik15@gmail.com; mbimunshi@gmail.com; noa@agni.com; qamruddinc@yahoo.com; quazinuru@yahoo.com; shoaib187@yahoo.com; serajul7@gmail.com; aleem53@yahoo.com; farida_majid@hotmail.com; siddiquelondonuk@gmail.com; nazdakalam@gmail.com; nazir0101@gmail.com; azadcop@yahoo.com; alamnazdak@comcast.net; rms34@hotmail.com; tanvirnowaz@yahoo.com; msahmed21@yahoo.co.uk; mfariha123@aol.com; amsmel@aol.com; syedhaque@hotmail.com; poplu@hotmail.com; smargoob@yahoo.com; kazimsislam@yahoo.com; anis.ahmed@netzero.net; tareque7@gmail.com; farzana.ahmed48@yahoo.com; americamyland@gmail.com; bachchuhaq13@yahoo.com; mostofadrgholam@gmail.com; bamandas_basu@yahoo.com; khondkar_karim@uml.edu; em.pannah@americatech.us; akhtergolam@gmail.com; iqbalyousuf1@yahoo.com; asifuli@gmail.com; khondkar.saleque@gmail.com; khoniker.othithee@yahoo.com; mo.gani@hotmail.com; osmangani@gmail.com; quamrul.hassan01@gmail.com; apurba01@gmail.com; md.uddin@comcast.net; bazlul@yahoo.com; la-discussion@googlegroups.com; nurannabi@gmail.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} RE: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Bdesh's National Anthem

Sonar Bangla has a simple Bengali tune, yet can stir up strong patriotic emotion in Bengali.
It was a defacto  athem for Bengali military officers who were tormenting  revolt against Pakistani military. Same group chose sun as in the Japanese flag for the BD flag.

Those who are contemplating a new National anthem because author of the present one was never Bangldesh citizen because he died decades before creation of BD. For them sonar Bangla is a work of a British citizen. Now what they have say sun the in the flag, it is borrowed design from Japanese flag. At least Tagore was Bengali nation, same as most of the Bangladeshi. How Japanese are Bangladeshi that is more acceptable borrow from Japanese design than borrowing from a Bengali from British . It is absurd to think of changing flag design , then it more ridiculous change anthem.

These self gloating part time citizen of  BD need to live Bangladesh at least ten years at stretch before they demand change in anthem or flag.

They definetly dont have the best interest of Bangladesh, they are looking for spot light cheaply. Be more creative than be a riot monger; since it not very hard to stir up riots  in will definetly cause carnage there and many children will loose their life. From the safety of abroad some are  looking forward to see bloodshed there and feel pleasure of tormenting others, to  what end only eblis can appreciate. 

National athem and flag icon are not burning issue. If want you to help Bangladesh , then go their and live there for a decads and serve the people there.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, March 7, 2016, 2:28 PM, RANU CHOWDHURY <ranu51@hotmail.com> wrote:

I strongly endorse Jalal Bhai suggestion on Bahar Bhai. I know all of you are highly qualified literary personalities with a penchant for poetry. I am the least qualified among this enlightened group yet gratified to be involved in it. I also support the inclusion of Shahadat Hussaini in this exercise.  


From: shahadathussaini@hotmail.com
To: jukhan@gmail.com; abid.bahar@gmail.com
CC: ranu51@hotmail.com; zahidhassan_2000@yahoo.com; rashedanam1971@gmail.com; zoglul@hotmail.co.uk; mgani69@gmail.com; sakhter1015@gmail.com; zainul321@yahoo.com; kazi4986@yahoo.com; rezaulkarim617@gmail.com; druhfarida@gmail.com; bdmailer@gmail.com; farahmina@gmail.com; jhelali2000@yahoo.com; kmamalik15@gmail.com; mbimunshi@gmail.com; noa@agni.com; qamruddinc@yahoo.com; quazinuru@yahoo.com; shoaib187@yahoo.com; serajul7@gmail.com; aleem53@yahoo.com; farida_majid@hotmail.com; siddiquelondonuk@gmail.com; nazdakalam@gmail.com; nazir0101@gmail.com; azadcop@yahoo.com; alamnazdak@comcast.net; rms34@hotmail.com; tanvirnowaz@yahoo.com; msahmed21@yahoo.co.uk; mfariha123@aol.com; amsmel@aol.com; syedhaque@hotmail.com; poplu@hotmail.com; smargoob@yahoo.com; kazimsislam@yahoo.com; anis.ahmed@netzero.net; tareque7@gmail.com; farzana.ahmed48@yahoo.com; americamyland@gmail.com; bachchuhaq13@yahoo.com; mostofadrgholam@gmail.com; bamandas_basu@yahoo.com; khondkar_karim@uml.edu; em.pannah@americatech.us; akhtergolam@gmail.com; iqbalyousuf1@yahoo.com; asifuli@gmail.com; khondkar.saleque@gmail.com; khoniker.othithee@yahoo.com; mo.gani@hotmail.com; osmangani@gmail.com; quamrul.hassan01@gmail.com; apurba01@gmail.com; md.uddin@comcast.net; bazlul@yahoo.com; la-discussion@googlegroups.com; nurannabi@gmail.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: {PFC-Friends} RE: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Bdesh's National Anthem
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 13:04:20 -0500

Dear Abid Bahar, Jalauddin Khan, Ranu Chowdhury:

Please count on me. I want to be part of it. Without a proper movement, even Nationalist government will not change it. I am positive on it.

Shahadat Suhrawardy


Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 18:47:33 +0400
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} RE: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Bdesh's National Anthem
From: jukhan@gmail.com
To: abid.bahar@gmail.com
CC: ranu51@hotmail.com; zahidhassan_2000@yahoo.com; rashedanam1971@gmail.com; zoglul@hotmail.co.uk; mgani69@gmail.com; sakhter1015@gmail.com; zainul321@yahoo.com; kazi4986@yahoo.com; rezaulkarim617@gmail.com; druhfarida@gmail.com; bdmailer@gmail.com; farahmina@gmail.com; jhelali2000@yahoo.com; kmamalik15@gmail.com; mbimunshi@gmail.com; noa@agni.com; qamruddinc@yahoo.com; quazinuru@yahoo.com; shoaib187@yahoo.com; serajul7@gmail.com; shahadathussaini@hotmail.com; aleem53@yahoo.com; farida_majid@hotmail.com; siddiquelondonuk@gmail.com; nazdakalam@gmail.com; nazir0101@gmail.com; azadcop@yahoo.com; alamnazdak@comcast.net; rms34@hotmail.com; tanvirnowaz@yahoo.com; msahmed21@yahoo.co.uk; mfariha123@aol.com; amsmel@aol.com; syedhaque@hotmail.com; poplu@hotmail.com; smargoob@yahoo.com; kazimsislam@yahoo.com; anis.ahmed@netzero.net; tareque7@gmail.com; farzana.ahmed48@yahoo.com; americamyland@gmail.com; bachchuhaq13@yahoo.com; mostofadrgholam@gmail.com; bamandas_basu@yahoo.com; khondkar_karim@uml.edu; em.pannah@americatech.us; akhtergolam@gmail.com; iqbalyousuf1@yahoo.com; asifuli@gmail.com; khondkar.saleque@gmail.com; khoniker.othithee@yahoo.com; mo.gani@hotmail.com; osmangani@gmail.com; quamrul.hassan01@gmail.com; apurba01@gmail.com; md.uddin@comcast.net; bazlul@yahoo.com; la-discussion@googlegroups.com; nurannabi@gmail.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com

Thank you, Professor Dr. Abid Bahar, for proposing my name to be on the list of the office bearers for the contemplated Porishod. I consider any of you, especially you, to be a better fit for the chair/convenor of the committee than me. I'll be happy to be a member only without any executive capacity. I'm an academic, not really an activist, but you are all highly academic (or knowledgeable and academic minded) with an ability to action words into reality.  

Secondly, as I said earlier, I'm not comfortable with the word "reform." "Reform" meaning an incremental process of change, by degrees, on the original, there is nothing to reform about the current national anthem. It has to go for a completely new and different one, an "original one," as Col. R. Chowdhury (Bhai) says, "composed by a Bangladeshi and which inspires and rejuvenates our spirits [unlike the present] Amar Sonar Bangla [which] puts one to sleep" --- points which I also raised in my article, which, since 2000, has gone through some revisions.   

Please see if the word "reform" could be dropped.  

In the meantime, I take the opportunity to forward you my piece on the national anthem in case you might like to take a look.  

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:58 AM, RANU CHOWDHURY <ranu51@hotmail.com> wrote:
Its fine for an intellectual exercise. However, I have a few comments.

I had earlier said, and a few others agreed, that nothing would happen as long as Indian protégé Hasina regime stayed in power. Reportedly, Amar Sonar Bangla and Secularism are two gifts Mujib received from Indira Gandhi when he stopped over in New Delhi on his  way to independent Bangladesh on January 10, 1971. They were the first doses toward Indianizing Bangladesh. The process remained suspended for 21+5 years and now re-started on a fast track.

Therefore, the immediate priority is the ouster of this anti-Bangladeshi regime and get Bangladesh out of the Indian illegal hegemonic encroachments and interferences. Then we may suggest to the new authority to introduce a new national anthem that will be original, composed by a Bangladeshi and which inspires and rejuvenates our spirits (Amar Sonar Bangla puts one to sleep).

And, whatever we do, Dr. Abid Bahar should also be in it in an executive capacity.



Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 23:00:01 -0500
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} RE: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Bdesh's National Anthem
From: abid.bahar@gmail.com
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com
CC: zainul321@yahoo.com; jukhan@gmail.com; zahidhassan_2000@yahoo.com; rashedanam1971@gmail.com; zoglul@hotmail.co.uk; mgani69@gmail.com; sakhter1015@gmail.com; kazi4986@yahoo.com; rezaulkarim617@gmail.com; druhfarida@gmail.com; bdmailer@gmail.com; farahmina@gmail.com; jhelali2000@yahoo.com; kmamalik15@gmail.com; mbimunshi@gmail.com; noa@agni.com; qamruddinc@yahoo.com; quazinuru@yahoo.com; shoaib187@yahoo.com; serajul7@gmail.com; shahadathussaini@hotmail.com; aleem53@yahoo.com; farida_majid@hotmail.com; siddiquelondonuk@gmail.com; nazdakalam@gmail.com; nazir0101@gmail.com; azadcop@yahoo.com; alamnazdak@comcast.net; rms34@hotmail.com; tanvirnowaz@yahoo.com; msahmed21@yahoo.co.uk; mfariha123@aol.com; amsmel@aol.com; syedhaque@hotmail.com; poplu@hotmail.com; smargoob@yahoo.com; kazimsislam@yahoo.com; anis.ahmed@netzero.net; tareque7@gmail.com; farzana.ahmed48@yahoo.com; americamyland@gmail.com; bachchuhaq13@yahoo.com; mostofadrgholam@gmail.com; bamandas_basu@yahoo.com; khondkar_karim@uml.edu; em.pannah@americatech.us; akhtergolam@gmail.com; iqbalyousuf1@yahoo.com; asifuli@gmail.com; khondkar.saleque@gmail.com; khoniker.othithee@yahoo.com; mo.gani@hotmail.com; osmangani@gmail.com; quamrul.hassan01@gmail.com; apurba01@gmail.com; md.uddin@comcast.net; bazlul@yahoo.com; la-discussion@googlegroups.com; nurannabi@gmail.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; muktochinta@yahoogroups.com


BD INTERNATIONAL NATIONAL ANTHEM  REFORM MOVEMENT PARISHED

I would like to propose our respected professor Jalal Uddin Khan (PhD, English) to be the convenor/ Chairman of the Parished
I also like to propose A Akter to be the honorable secretary
Zoglul Hossain as the Senior vice president
Ranu Chowdhury as the vice president
Mohamed Gani as the vice President
Zainul Abedin as the organizing secretary
We have to have permission from all of them to confirm the comittee, followed by adding many more  names in the national and regional committees/ and in educational institutions.


This could be a similar movement we have going on in Canada and internationally about the model UN. The proposed reform movement can move step by step to make people aware of the anthem to bring the needed changes. 

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 2:34 PM, RANU CHOWDHURY <ranu51@hotmail.com> wrote:
"National Anthem Reform Movement" or 'Bangladesh National Anthem Porishod'
are good ideas.

> Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 18:10:29 +0000
> From: nabdc@googlegroups.com
> To: jukhan@gmail.com; abid.bahar@gmail.com
> CC: zahidhassan_2000@yahoo.com; rashedanam1971@gmail.com; zoglul@hotmail.co.uk; ranu51@hotmail.com; mgani69@gmail.com; sakhter1015@gmail.com; kazi4986@yahoo.com; rezaulkarim617@gmail.com; zainul321@yahoo.com; druhfarida@gmail.com; bdmailer@gmail.com; farahmina@gmail.com; jhelali2000@yahoo.com; kmamalik15@gmail.com; mbimunshi@gmail.com; noa@agni.com; qamruddinc@yahoo.com; quazinuru@yahoo.com; shoaib187@yahoo.com; serajul7@gmail.com; shahadathussaini@hotmail.com; aleem53@yahoo.com; farida_majid@hotmail.com; siddiquelondonuk@gmail.com; nazdakalam@gmail.com; nazir0101@gmail.com; azadcop@yahoo.com; alamnazdak@comcast.net; rms34@hotmail.com; tanvirnowaz@yahoo.com; msahmed21@yahoo.co.uk; mfariha123@aol.com; amsmel@aol.com; syedhaque@hotmail.com; poplu@hotmail.com; smargoob@yahoo.com; kazimsislam@yahoo.com; anis.ahmed@netzero.net; tareque7@gmail.com; nabdc@googlegroups.com; farzana.ahmed48@yahoo.com; americamyland@gmail.com; bachchuhaq13@yahoo.com; mostofadrgholam@gmail.com; bamandas_basu@yahoo.com; Khondkar_Karim@uml.edu; em.pannah@americatech.us; akhtergolam@gmail.com; iqbalyousuf1@yahoo.com; asifuli@gmail.com; khondkar.saleque@gmail.com; khoniker.othithee@yahoo.com; mo.gani@hotmail.com; osmangani@gmail.com; quamrul.hassan01@gmail.com; apurba01@gmail.com; md.uddin@comcast.net; bazlul@yahoo.com; pfc-friends@googlegroups.com; la-discussion@googlegroups.com; nurannabi@gmail.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; muktochinta@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Bdesh's National Anthem
>
> Salam,
>
> Yes, we need a "firmer" decision toward actions.
>
> Zainul
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 3/6/16, Abid Bahar <abid.bahar@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Bdesh's National Anthem
> To: "Jalal Uddin Khan" <jukhan@gmail.com>
> Cc: "Zahidul Hassan" <zahidhassan_2000@yahoo.com>, "rashed Anam" <rashedanam1971@gmail.com>, "Zoglul Zoglul" <zoglul@hotmail.co.uk>, "RANU CHOWDHURY" <ranu51@hotmail.com>, "mgani69@gmail.com" <mgani69@gmail.com>, "S Akhter" <sakhter1015@gmail.com>, "Muazzam Kazi" <kazi4986@yahoo.com>, "Rezaul Karim" <rezaulkarim617@gmail.com>, "zainul abedin" <zainul321@yahoo.com>, "Farida Hossain" <druhfarida@gmail.com>, "Isha Khan" <bdmailer@gmail.com>, "Mina Farah" <farahmina@gmail.com>, "Javed Helali" <jhelali2000@yahoo.com>, "Khalifa Malik" <kmamalik15@gmail.com>, "MBI Munshi" <mbimunshi@gmail.com>, "noa@agni.com" <noa@agni.com>, "qamruddin chowdhury" <qamruddinc@yahoo.com>, "Quazi Nuruzzaman" <quazinuru@yahoo.com>, "Mohammed Shoaib" <shoaib187@yahoo.com>, "Serajul Islam" <serajul7@gmail.com>, "Hussain Suhrawardy" <shahadathussaini@hotmail.com>, "Mohammad Aleem" <aleem53@yahoo.com>, "Farida Majid" <farida_majid@hotmail.com>, "Syed Siddique" <siddiquelondonuk@gmail.com>, "Nazda Alam" <nazdakalam@gmail.com>, "Mohamed Nazir" <nazir0101@gmail.com>, "Azad Khan" <azadcop@yahoo.com>, "Nazda" <alamnazdak@comcast.net>, "Rownak Shahriar" <rms34@hotmail.com>, "tanvirnowaz@yahoo.com" <tanvirnowaz@yahoo.com>, "Muhammad Ahmed" <msahmed21@yahoo.co.uk>, "Atiqur Rahman Salu" <mfariha123@aol.com>, "Sameer Syed" <amsmel@aol.com>, "syed haque" <syedhaque@hotmail.com>, "Syeda Hasan" <poplu@hotmail.com>, "Syed Margoob" <smargoob@yahoo.com>, "kazimsislam@yahoo.com" <kazimsislam@yahoo.com>, "anis.ahmed" <anis.ahmed@netzero.net>, "Tareque Ahmed" <tareque7@gmail.com>, "nabdc group" <nabdc@googlegroups.com>, "Farzana Ahmed" <farzana.ahmed48@yahoo.com>, "Dr. Jamir Chowdhury" <americamyland@gmail.com>, "Nurul Bachchu" <bachchuhaq13@yahoo.com>, "Dr.Gholam Mostofa" <mostofadrgholam@gmail.com>, "Baman Das" <bamandas_basu@yahoo.com>, "Khondkar_Karim@uml.edu" <Khondkar_Karim@uml.edu>, "Dr. Em Pannah" <em.pannah@americatech.us>, "Golam Akhter" <akhtergolam@gmail.com>, "Iqbal Yousuf" <iqbalyousuf1@yahoo.com>, "Asiful Islam" <asifuli@gmail.com>, "Khondkar Saleque" <khondkar.saleque@gmail.com>, "Khoniker Othithee" <khoniker.othithee@yahoo.com>, "Osman Gani" <mo.gani@hotmail.com>, "Osman Gani" <osmangani@gmail.com>, "quamrul hassan" <quamrul.hassan01@gmail.com>, "Mahbubur Rahman" <apurba01@gmail.com>, "Md Uddin" <md.uddin@comcast.net>, "Bazlul Wahab" <bazlul@yahoo.com>, "pfc-friends@googlegroups.com" <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com>, "la-discussion@googlegroups.com" <la-discussion@googlegroups.com>, "Nuran Nabi" <nurannabi@gmail.com>, "mukto-mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>, "MuktoChinta@yahoogroups.com" <muktochinta@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sunday, March 6, 2016, 9:53 AM
>
> NATINAL ANTHEM REFORM MOVEMENT
> As if like the  Bangla Vasha
> Songram.Porishad of the 50's was formed to implement
> Bangla as our language, we can also start a national anthem
> reform movement porished to implement the anthem of
> Bangladesh.  
> (1)
> The first step in this direction is to make people
> conscious of the anomalies with the present state of the
> anthem(2) Second step could be to ask for
> submission of songs or suggestion for the reform of
> Tagore's present song/ anthem.
> (3) Personally, I would say that
> instead of changing the present song completely, we can
> reform it by adding the word Bangladesh and injecting some
> spirit into it. Both USA and Canada made reforms in their
> original anthem to accommodate the country's state of
> existence.
> Surely, the
> Mujibbadi indian puppet dada and sinduri didis are going to
> vehemently oppose it. To them the plagiarism/ cheating by
> Tagore is forgivable because he was a god to them. To my
> knowledge, (most teachers would know) we expel students from
> educational institutions for this type of offensive. In the
> academic circle, this is considered as a criminal offence.
> Surely, Tagor's criminality in this composure
> shouldn't be carried as a burden by  the
> entire nation. True, we shouldn't be standing up to
> show respect to a an article of theft. 
> Finally, this issue has been in
> discussion for quite sometime but no nationwide initiative
> has been taken yet to reform the anthem. At this stage,
> forming a nationwide Anthem Reform Movement Parished should
> be the way to go. This should be organized by an ANTHAM
> REFORM MOMENT CENTRAL COMMITTEE to repeatedly raise the
> issue to both Awami and BNP led governments. Awamis as
> fascists generally are very stubborn people, but to succeed
> in bringing progressive changes, people have to be more
> stubborn then them.    
> On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 3:25
> AM, Jalal Uddin Khan <jukhan@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> No problem as we all agree that this Amar Sonar B
> should not have been chosen as the national anthem of Bdesh.
> The only difference is that while the issue of derivation in
> terms of tune and text is very serious to you, Dr. Rashed,
> it is not so to me, given the fact that Tagore was one of
> the greatest poets by his own merit and talent. However, I
> mentioned 6 reasons against Amar Sonar B in my writing. If
> the derivation or the borrowing or the imitation thing is
> included (which I would not include with prominence), the
> number would be 7. I cannot agree with Mr Zahidul H's
> suggestion because Chol Chol Chol Urdho Gogone Baje Matol is
> only a martial/military song covering only one side, one
> element. A national anthem should more importantly cover
> other things in terms of noble and lofty patriotism and love
> and attachment to the soil, connected with its birth in a
> profoundly heightened and generalized manner. "As a suggestion, Talim Hussein's
> extremely cute
> and appropriately short and simple 8-line lyric, Shwadhin
> Bangladesh—concise
> yet powerful and forceful and resonant with the repetition
> of "Bangladesh" in a
> beautiful refrain—may very well come into the picture for
> consideration.
> Although Gazi Mazharul Anwar's Prothom Bangladesh Amar
> Shesh Bangladesh,
> distinguished for its superb lyrics, could be a great
> candidate, it will
> for sure be opposed by the Awami League for its long
> association with the BNP."  
> On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 4:15
> AM, Zahidul Hassan <zahidhassan_2000@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> I
> have said to many of friends  nation anthem should be
> something like " Chol, Chol, Chol" and not the
> bhalobashar gajakhori.
> WasSalam,Zahid
> - Opu
>
>
> On Saturday,
> March 5, 2016 4:26 PM, rashed Anam <rashedanam1971@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Dr. Khan,
> Having agreed all you've said, I
> think my posts are in congruent with central premise, as I
> too have mentioned that millions of people do these sort of
> plagiarism, influenced writing, singing etc.  My arguments
> vary in two distinct points: 
>
> 1) Knowing how deeply similar tune the
> 'Amar Sonar Bangla' is to the tune and style of
> 'Ami khothai Pabo Tare', the song can not be
> characterized as an original one.
>
> 2) Knowing national anthem being so
> sacred to the spirit of the nation, it should not be a 2nd
> rated/coped/plagiarized/influenced one. The national anthem
> should only   original in its spirit, in its tune and
> lyrical substance. Obviously the 'Amar Sonar Bangla'
> failed to uphold that lofty goal.
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 5,
> 2016 at 11:55 AM, Jalal Uddin Khan <jukhan@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> Thanks, Dr. Rashed. In my article I made six
> detailed and concrete arguments against Amar Sonar B not
> deserving the status of the national anthem of Bdesh. The
> first version of my article was published about 20 years
> ago, then slightly revised versions at different times.
> However, the matter of "plagiarism" was not one of
> the six points I made. It was only mentioned in passing. The
> reason is that it is a common practice that poets and
> writers, major or minor, big or small, from Shakespeare to T
> S Eliot, do sometimes imitate, emulate, borrow, re-do,
> refashion and recreate other poets' or writers'
> themes, ideas, form and style in their own works as they
> struggle to be themselves and to find their own voice. That
> is why there is the modern literary theory of the burden of
> the past or the anxiety of influence. Those borrowings or
> stealings, so long as they are given a creative treatment to
> be made their own, integrated in their own way, are not
> taken very seriously. I think that is what has happened in
> the case of Tagore. Thanks for all the other information.  
>  
> On Sat, Mar 5,
> 2016 at 8:18 PM, rashed Anam <rashedanam1971@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> Thank you Dr. Jalal Uddin Khan for
> your informative post.
>
> With regards to Tagore's plagiarizing
> of 'Amar Sonar Bangla'  from 'Ami khothai pabo
> tare',  does admittance of plagiarizing inoculate it
> from the offense itself? Does it make the plagiarizing
> vanish in the ether?  Or does it sanitize and water down
> the plagiarizing?  
>
> If you listen to the tune, it is almost 
> 1-1 match. The lyrics like 'Mori hai..." are carbon
> copies.  The evidence of the song 'Ami kothai pabo
> tare'  was too strong for Tagore to out right deny it.
> He had to admit it. But remember he admitted it after 5/6
> years.  The 'amar sonar bangla' was written around
> 1905 and Tagore admitted it in 1914, after about 9 years
> when the controversy was  high and evidence was irrefutable
> about it. Tagore wrote an article title 'postman'
> (Harkara)  about it admitting about it and on Baul songs.
> Actually the famed Mr. Shottajir Roy made a movie called
> 'Postman' on the life of Gagan Harkara.
>
> Just as a alleged
> thief's admittance of his theft does not make the
> original offense of theft non-existent or go away, a
> plagiarizer's plagiarizing does not become non-existent
> upon his admittance or sugar coating or sanitizing of it.
> The tune is too similar to 'ami kothai pabo tare'
> for it to be considered an original song. There is nothing
> wrong to copy or heavily mimic other song. There are
> millions of such songs and by famous song writers. But the
> issue is about trying to sell it as epic, as original, or
> praise worthy.  To do so would be mis-characterizing it and
> also robbing the original song writer/singer Gagan Harkara
> of the credit .
>
>
> The
> question remains, how can a plagiarized or mimic song
> 'amar sonar bangla' be a national anthem of any
> country?? A national Anthem is very sacred. It has to be
> original at least for it to be considered sacred. It cannot
> be a coped version of someone else song.  
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaFetWNuaoE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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