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Thursday, July 18, 2013

Re: [mukto-mona] Goalm Azam will bring back Awami league in power!!



1. It is now irrelevant to criticize Mr. Bose after he has given the clarification that the readers were misled by the subject of his post as he actually expressed diametrically opposite views as should be evidenced by his use of exclamatory sign. So we can say that he made careless, callous, irresponsible and unfortunate comment.
2. If not misunderstood, I cannot agree with Mr.Rahman and must say that this particular post had nothing to do with promoting peace. Moreover, it was totally immoral and unethical as well.
       

From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 4:52 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Goalm Azam will bring back Awami league in power!!
 
Mr. Bose, 
It is very clear who you are? It seems you are using this Hindu name to disguise yourself to show even Hindu suports Golam Azam? How tricky...We ain't fool.. We can track you down.
M.Islam

>>>>>>>>> I do not think expressing gratitude for people who helped a person is any kind of sin. I know there are few people who used fake name in this forum but I have not seen any reaction to it. Why this threat of tracking member Bose down? Any large community can have diverse opinion and I do not think issuing threats will help having open discussions. Besides this member seems to be very peaceful and not provoking anything immoral or illogical. I would hope, member M Islam will practice more tolerance. If you speak for freedom of speech, you have to have some moral base to protect it. Only God knows if anyone said anything controversial how some of our pseudo_Mukto-Monas will react?  Shalom!
-----Original Message-----From: GT International <gti82@hotmail.com>To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wed, Jul 17, 2013 5:50 pmSubject: RE: [mukto-mona] Goalm Azam will bring back Awami league in power!!
 
Mr. Bose, 
It is very clear who you are? It seems you are using this Hindu name to disguise yourself to show even Hindu suports Golam Azam? How tricky...We ain't fool.. We can track you down.
M.Islam
 
To: khabor@yahoogroups.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.comCC: srbanunz@gmail.com; akhtarudduza@gmail.comFrom: anjbose@hotmail.comDate: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 01:21:24 -0400Subject: [mukto-mona] Goalm Azam will bring back Awami league in power!! 

 
 I know how much pain we have when, Pakistani army and collaborators launched heinous acts on us in 1971. We lost every things, we gained many things. Gain was, we were given compassionate shelter by my next door community. Our union council chairman, my beloved Kafiluddin da like a fatherly affection gave us shelter and my Altaf da of my school teacher gave a safe place for my father since he was enemy to Pakistan for connection to Bangabandhu. I have good memory with my shelter places( Bhavi, sisters , brothers and uncles ) and all were my Muslim community. Still in my heart a place is reserved for them. And so , my  country is very dear to me.
What a tragedy, we are almost lost for our leadership. We will see very soon, Shaka will be out from jail  since he is also pronouncing Mujib's name as Bangabandhu. 




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[mukto-mona] বুদ্ধিজীবী হত্যার বিচার: বুদ্ধিজীবীদের রক্তের ওপর দাঁড়িয়ে শেষ বক্তৃতা দেন মুজাহিদ.....




বুদ্ধিজীবী হত্যার বিচার

বুদ্ধিজীবীদের রক্তের ওপর দাঁড়িয়ে শেষ বক্তৃতা দেন মুজাহিদ

কুন্তল রায় | তারিখ: ১৯-০৭-২০১৩

১৯৭১ সালের ১৬ ডিসেম্বর যখন রেসকোর্স ময়দানে পাকিস্তানি দখলদার বাহিনী আত্মসমর্পণের প্রস্তুতি নিচ্ছিল, তখন ঢাকার আরেক প্রান্তে আলী আহসান মোহাম্মাদ মুজাহিদ আলবদরদের কেন্দ্রীয় কার্যালয়ে শহীদ বুদ্ধিজীবীদের রক্তের ওপর দাঁড়িয়ে আলবদর সদস্যদের উদ্দেশে তাঁর শেষ বক্তৃতা দিচ্ছিলেন। তিনি বদর বাহিনীর সদস্যদের পালিয়ে যাওয়ার নির্দেশ দেন। 
আন্তর্জাতিক অপরাধ ট্রাইব্যুনাল-২ তাঁর রায়ে এসব তথ্য দিয়েছেন। বর্তমানে জামায়াতে ইসলামীর সেক্রেটারি জেনারেল আলী আহসান মোহাম্মাদ মুজাহিদকে মুক্তিযুদ্ধকালে বুদ্ধিজীবী হত্যার দায়ে ট্রাইব্যুনাল গত বুধবার মৃত্যুদণ্ড দেন। 
রায়ে বলা হয়, একাত্তরে মোহাম্মদপুরের শারীরিক শিক্ষা কলেজ (তৎকালীন ফিজিক্যাল ট্রেনিং ইনস্টিটিউট) ছিল আলবদর বাহিনীর কেন্দ্রীয় কার্যালয়। একাত্তরের ঘাতক ও দালালরা কে কোথায় বইটি উদ্ধৃত করে ট্রাইব্যুনাল বলেন, একাত্তরের ১৭ সেপ্টেম্বর রাজাকার বাহিনীর প্রধান ও শান্তি কমিটির লিয়াজোঁ কর্মকর্তাকে নিয়ে জামায়াতের আমির গোলাম আযম মোহাম্মদপুরের শারীরিক শিক্ষা কলেজে যে রাজাকার ও আলবদর শিবির পরিদর্শন করেছিলেন, সেটিই ছিল আলবদরদের কেন্দ্রীয় কার্যালয়। স্বাধীনতার পক্ষের বুদ্ধিজীবীদের বেশির ভাগকে আলবদররা প্রথমে চোখ বেঁধে এখানে নিয়ে আসে। নির্যাতনের পর এখান থেকে তাঁদের রায়েরবাজারে ও মিরপুরের শিয়ালবাড়িসহ অন্য বধ্যভূমিতে নিয়ে হত্যা করে।
মুজাহিদের বিরুদ্ধে দেওয়া ট্রাইব্যুনালের পূর্ণাঙ্গ রায়ে বলা হয়েছে, ১৯৮৫ সালে পাকিস্তানের জামায়াত নেতা সেলিম মনসুর খালেদের লেখা আল-বদর নামে একটি বই প্রকাশিত হয়। উর্দু ভাষায় লিখিত ওই বইয়ের ১৭৬-১৭৮ পৃষ্ঠায় সেলিম মনসুর লেখেন, একাত্তরের ১৬ ডিসেম্বর ছাত্র সংঘের নাজিম (অর্থাৎ সভাপতি) নির্যাতনকেন্দ্র বলে পরিচিত মোহাম্মদপুর শারীরিক শিক্ষা কলেজে স্থাপিত আলবদরের সদর দপ্তরে আলবদর সদস্যদের উদ্দেশে 'আখেরি খিতাব' (শেষ বক্তৃতা) দেন। বক্তব্যে তিনি দিনটিকে (বাংলাদেশের বিজয় দিবস) 'বেদনাদায়ক দিন' হিসেবে উল্লেখ করেন। পাকিস্তানি সেনাদের আত্মসমর্পণকে বলে 'ট্র্যাজেডি'। সেদিন মুজাহিদ আরও বলেন, 'আমরা বিগত দিনগুলোর জন্য লজ্জিত নই। আর সামনের দিনগুলোর জন্য নিরাশও নই।' শেষ পর্যায়ে বলেন, 'বন্ধুরা! আমি বাধ্য হয়ে আদেশ দিচ্ছি, আপনারা হিজরতে বের হয়ে যান।' এরপর আলবদর সদস্যরা ক্যাম্প ছেড়ে পালিয়ে যান। 
রায়ে বলা হয়েছে, ১৯৭১ সালের ডিসেম্বর ও ১৯৭২ সালের জানুয়ারিতে পত্রিকায় প্রকাশিত বিভিন্ন প্রতিবেদন থেকে দেখা যায়, শতাধিক বুদ্ধিজীবীকে অপহরণ করে হত্যা করেছিল কুখ্যাত গুপ্তঘাতক আলবদর বাহিনী। একাত্তরের ১৯ ডিসেম্বর ইত্তেফাক-এ প্রকাশিত এক প্রতিবেদনে বলা হয়, বিশ্বের বিভিন্ন দেশের গণমাধ্যম, টিভি ও রেডিওর প্রতিনিধিরা মুক্তিযুদ্ধ শেষে মোহাম্মদপুরের শারীরিক শিক্ষা কলেজের কয়েকটি কক্ষে গিয়ে রক্তের স্রোতধারা দেখতে পান। আশপাশে ছড়িয়ে-ছিটিয়ে থাকতে দেখা যায় বর্বরোচিত হত্যাকাণ্ডে ব্যবহূত অস্ত্রগুলো। এতে প্রমাণিত হয়, ওই কলেজটি ছিল প্রকৃতপক্ষে একটি হত্যাপুরী, আর একাত্তরের ১৬ ডিসেম্বর আসামি মুজাহিদ সেখানে শহীদ বুদ্ধিজীবীদের পুণ্য রক্ত মাড়িয়ে আলবদর সদস্যদের উদ্দেশে তাঁর শেষ বক্তৃতা দিয়েছিলেন।
শারীরিক শিক্ষা কলেজে আলবদরের সদর দপ্তর ও নির্যাতনকেন্দ্র স্থাপনের বিষয়ে আরও অনেক তথ্য তুলে ধরেন ট্রাইব্যুনাল। পূর্ণাঙ্গ রায়ে বলা হয়েছে, রাষ্ট্রপক্ষের পঞ্চম সাক্ষী ও শারীরিক শিক্ষা কলেজের নিরাপত্তাকর্মী রুস্তম আলী মোল্লা একাত্তরে ওই কলেজ-সংলগ্ন আবাসিক এলাকায় পরিবারের সঙ্গে থাকতেন। স্বাভাবিকভাবে ওই স্থানে ঘটে যাওয়া অনেক ঘটনা দেখার সুযোগ হয়েছে তাঁর। তিনি ওই নির্যাতন ক্যাম্পে জামায়াত ও ছাত্র সংঘের উচ্চপর্যায়ের নেতাদের সঙ্গে মুজাহিদকে দেখেছেন। এ জন্য তিনি এ বিষয়ে একজন উপযুক্ত সাক্ষী।
রুস্তম আলীর দেওয়া সাক্ষ্য উদ্ধৃত করে রায়ে বলা হয়, বিজয়ের সাত-আট দিন আগে আলবদর, রাজাকার ও পাকিস্তানি সেনারা ওই ক্যাম্পে বুদ্ধিজীবী, শিল্পী ও মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের ধরে নিয়ে যায়। মুক্তিযুদ্ধের পর তিনি কলেজের পেছনে একটি ইটভাটায় শতাধিক চোখ স্তূপ করা অবস্থায় দেখেন। ১৭ ডিসেম্বর তিনি কলেজের জিমনেসিয়ামে (ব্যায়ামাগার) নয়টি ভাঙাচোরা খুলি দেখতে পান। জেরায় আসামিপক্ষ এসব বিষয়ের সত্যতা নিয়ে প্রশ্ন তুলতে পারেনি।
রায়ে বলা হয়, মুক্তিযুদ্ধের চেতনা বিকাশকেন্দ্র থেকে প্রকাশিত একাত্তরের ঘাতক ও দালালরা কে কোথায় বইতে বলা হয়েছে, নৃশংস হত্যাযজ্ঞ সম্পন্ন করার জন্য আলবদররা ব্যাপকভাবে বুদ্ধিজীবীদের অপহরণ করা শুরু করে একাত্তরের ১০ ডিসেম্বর থেকে। কারফিউ এবং ব্ল্যাক আউটের মধ্যে জিপে করে আলবদরা দিন-রাত বুদ্ধিজীবীদের বাড়ি বাড়ি গিয়ে প্রথমে তাদের কাদামাখানো একটি বাসে তোলে। এরপর বাসবোঝাই বুদ্ধিজীবীসহ নানা স্তরের বন্দীকে মোহাম্মদপুরের শারীরিক শিক্ষা কলেজে আলবদর সদর দপ্তরে নিয়ে নির্যাতন করে।
রায়ে আরও বলা হয়, ১৮ সেপ্টেম্বর প্রকাশিত জামায়াতের মুখপত্র সংগ্রাম-এর একটি প্রতিবেদনে বলা হয়েছে, গোলাম আযম ১৭ সেপ্টেম্বর শারীরিক শিক্ষাকেন্দ্রে গিয়ে রাজাকারদের উৎসাহ জোগাতে বক্তৃতা করেন। ট্রাইব্যুনাল বলেন, ওই কলেজটি শুধু রাজাকারদের প্রশিক্ষণকেন্দ্র ছিল না, বরং একাত্তরে মানুষের মনে ভীতি সঞ্চার করার স্থান ছিল।
ট্রাইব্যুনাল ২৯ ডিসেম্বর দৈনিক পাকিস্তান-এ প্রকাশিত একটি প্রতিবেদন উদ্ধৃত করেন। তাতে বলা হয়, বুদ্ধিজীবীদের নির্মূল করার জন্য বাংলার জঘন্যতম শত্রু ফ্যাসিস্ট জামায়াতে ইসলামী যে মহাপরিকল্পনা গ্রহণ করেছিল এবং ওই পরিকল্পনা বাস্তবায়নে আলবদর নামে জল্লাদ বাহিনী গঠন করেছিল, তাদের সম্পর্কে আরও তথ্য পাওয়া গেছে। ওই জল্লাদদের প্রশিক্ষণকেন্দ্র হিসেবে পরিচিত লালমাটিয়ার শরীরচর্চাকেন্দ্র থেকে উদ্ধার করা এসব তথ্যে বদর জল্লাদদের আরও কয়েকজনের নাম-পরিচয় ও ঠিকানা পাওয়া গেছে।

http://prothom-alo.com/detail/date/2013-07-19/news/369060


আবদুল মান্নান

ঘাতকদের বিচার: সন্তুষ্টির কারণ তো আছেই

Related:
রায়ের পর্যবেক্ষণ

গুপ্তঘাতক আলবদর ছিল জামায়াতের 'সশস্ত্র বিভাগ'

নিজস্ব প্রতিবেদক | তারিখ: ১৮-০৭-২০১৩


একাত্তরের গুপ্তঘাতক আলবদর বাহিনী ছিল জামায়াতে ইসলামীর সশস্ত্র বিভাগ। জামায়াত কোনোভাবেই একাত্তরের অস্ত্রসজ্জিত, ফ্যাসিস্ট এই বাহিনীর হত্যাযজ্ঞ ও মুক্তিযুদ্ধবিরোধী কর্মকাণ্ডের দায়িত্ব এড়াতে পারে না। .............................

http://prothom-alo.com/detail/date/2013-07-18/news/368835


ছাত্র সংঘের কর্মীরাই আল-বদর: ট্রাইব্যুনাল
আল-বদর বাহিনী কিভাবে গঠিত হয়েছিল, এর কর্মী ছিল কারা?

 

এই দলের একটি ছাত্র শাখা রয়েছে যা [পাকিস্তানের] সেনাদের সমর্থনে আল বদর নামে একটি আধা সামরিক গঠন করেছিল।"

 











মুক্তিযুদ্ধের শেষ তিন মাস আলবদরের প্রধান ছিলেন মুজাহিদ
যুদ্ধাপরাধী বিচার

Related:

এক মানচিত্রে জন্মেও আমি রাজাকার- 

স্বাধীন দেশে পরাধীনতার চোরাবালি:


Golam Azam' is the Eichmann of Bangladesh .....
Golam Azam is the Gaddere Azam of our time....
Golam Azam collaborated with a foreign occupation army .....
Golam Azam is the twentieth century Mir Zafor Ali Khan of Bangladesh ....   
Golam Azam is worse than Mir Zafor in many sense ,,,,,[Mirzafor was a
Uzbek-born, where as Golam Azam এক মানচিত্রে জন্মেও collaborated with a
foreign occupation army engaged in mass-rapes and Genocide!!!!
Golam Azam with his Jamaate Islami party vis-a-vis Islami Chattro Sangho
not only betrayed our nation (emerging Bangladesh), but aided and
abetted the Genocide & Mass-rapes of the Yahia Regime ....
Golam Azam was elected unopposed (1971 November) with the
blessings of General Aga Mohammad Yahia Khan ......
[But, as you know: man proposes Allah Subhana Wa Tala
disposes ,,,,, Gaddere Azam Golam Azam's dream never came
true.  Bangladesh emerged as an Independent Republic ......

Golam Azam created an organization named Purbo Pakistan Punoruddhar 
Committee. Golam Azam continued his idiotic & treacherous efforts to 
nullify & stop the recognition of Bangladesh [Bangladesh Na Monjoor ].
Again, that effort too became futile ........

রাজাকার-আলবদর বাহিনী গড়ার হোতা গোলাম আযমhttp://www.kalerkantho.com/?view=details&type=gold&data=Bank&pub_no=794&cat_id=1&menu_id=14&news_type_id=1&index=0&archiev=yes&arch_date=16-02-2012

Memory Lane:  
  জামায়াতে ইসলামী ও আলবদর বাহিনী ৯৭
আলবদর ১৯৭১  - ১ 
রবিবার, ৬ আগষ্ট  ভাদ্র  
আলবদর ১৯৭১ - 
সোমবার, ৭ আগষ্ট  ভাদ্র 
আলবদর ১৯৭১ - 
মঙ্গলবার, ৮ আগষ্ট  ভাদ্র 
আলবদর ১৯৭১ 
বুধবার, ৯ আগষ্ট ৪ ভাদ্র 
আলবদর ১৯৭১ - ৫ 
বৃহস্পতিবার, ০ আগষ্ট ৫ ভাদ্র 
আলবদর ১৯৭১ -  ৬  
শুক্রবার,  আগষ্ট ৬ ভাদ্র 
আলবদর ১৯৭১  - ৭
শনিবার,  সেপ্টেম্বর ৭ ভাদ্র 

আলবদর ১৯৭১ - 

http://www.dailyjanakantha.com/news_view.php?nc=16&dd=2012-09-02&ni=107855 
রবিবার,  সেপ্টেম্বর ৮ ভাদ্র 
আলবদর ১৯৭১ - ৯

সোমবার,  সেপ্টেম্বর ৯ ভাদ্র 
আলবদর ১৯৭১- ১০

মঙ্গলবার, ৪ সেপ্টেম্বর ০ ভাদ্র 
আলবদর ১৯৭১ - ১১
বুধবার, ৫ সেপ্টেম্বর  ভাদ্র 
আলবদর ১৯৭১ -১২
শুক্রবার, ৭ সেপ্টেম্বর  ভাদ্র 
আলবদর ১৯৭১ -১৩ আলবদর ৯৭ ॥ বুদ্ধিজীবী হত্যা ... ..
শনিবার, ৮ সেপ্টেম্বর ৪ ভাদ্র 
আলবদর ১৯৭১-১৪



রবিবার, ৯ সেপ্টেম্বর ৫ ভাদ্র 
আলবদর ১৯৭১ - ১৫ 


সোমবার, ০ সেপ্টেম্বর ৬ ভাদ্র 
আলবদর ১৯৭১ - ১৬ (শেষাংশ)








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Re: [mukto-mona] Golam Azam did not do wrong in 1971!!



Point taken and yet, I think you should not justify Ghulam Azam's criminality because Awamis and BNP cadres have been behaving very poorly. The old habit would not go away that easily. Even, a prolonged struggle would not have created a perfect harmonious society as evidenced by other countries' freedom struggles. That is a pure illusion. We have a religious fault line that has been apparent for long time and it is not going to go away any time soon. If that was not there, people would have invented something different like Shia-Sunni problem. That is our damn nature!
-SD
 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: Asoke Bose <anjbose@hotmail.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>; "khabor@yahoogroups.com" <khabor@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "akhtarudduza@gmail.com" <akhtarudduza@gmail.com>; Shafikur <srbanunz@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 11:57 PM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Golam Azam did not do wrong in 1971!!

 
I appreciate all of our respected friends who had given valued comments regarding my notorious caption. My caption has explanatory sign and  in my comments I mentioned under Golam Azam's guidance, Pakistani army launched genocide against us in 1971. I lost my brother for this cause. In no way I do not expect  Golam Azam,  for his age consideration got special preference from judiciary.
I do not want my reader's confusion with regard to my caption and in no way I can give a praiseworthy applause from my heart to Golam Azam ,a notorious culprits in our time.
Regards to all.
Asoke Bose   


To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
CC: bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com
From: shahdeeldar@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 18:41:16 -0700
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Golam Azam did not do wrong in 1971!!

 

The man is not only misguided but totally demented to justify a massive genocide in the name of pure Muslim blood. No, it was not a racial cleansing, it was a genocide with ethnic cleansing. And, that is considered as a crime against humanity. Can anybody show this @ss the door?
-SD

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Golam Azam did not do wrong in 1971!!

 

Mr. Bose is severely misguided in his reasoning. I am not sure how he could up with a conclusion that Golam Azam did not do anything wrong even after he has been found guilty of all heinous charges. In my view, Golam Azam is still causing death and destruction every day as people keep on dying on the street in protest of his verdict.
 
I can understand political deal between Awami League and Jamati leaders, which may save some  convicted Jamati leaders' lives. What I can't understand is - why all those fools are dying every day on the street, fighting one another. What are they achieving with their ultimate sacrifice? They are saving lives of some convicted killers at the cost of their own lives. Does that make sense to anyone? These are the dumbest fools in the society, always ready to be exploited.

Jiten Roy


From: GT International <gti82@hotmail.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 10:55 AM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Golam Azam did not do wrong in 1971!!

 
Mr. Bose, what are you saying? Golam Azam just got convicted of all the alleged crime and you are saying he did not do anything wrong? What do you know about Golam Azam? This is the man who was tghe head of all the RAZAKAR/ALBADAR/ALSHAMS who killed innocent Bengalies, raped our women and burn down houses of our people. And you are saying he DID NOT DO ANYTHING WRONG? With all due respect, what planet do you live in?
-Russel
 

To: khabor@yahoogroups.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; srbanunz@gmail.com; dewankarim@rogers.com
From: anjbose@hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 11:44:06 -0400
Subject: [mukto-mona] Golam Azam did not do wrong in 1971!!

 
Golam Azam did not do any wrong in 1971 and he has all right to live.
I in my full consciousness witnessed our liberation struggle. The collaboration with Pakistani invaders from our soil was Bangalee and it is true that  Golam Azam was their leader. They collaborated Pakistani army  in the name of Islam, they executed racial cleansing, and wanted to transform the then Muslims to true  blood Muslims.  
I appreciate Akathar, my friend's comments that we got our liberation within a short time and so we could not get time to change ourselves.
After liberation, the root of our hypocrisy lies mostly in Awami leadership, they could not come out from Paki mentality. 

One Tazuddin is not enough for fulfilling our dream and he was pushed out of site of Bangabandhu and that trend is totally nourished by all of us. If you want to see hypocrisy then you will see the present leadership of Awami league. They know that unwillingly we will support them as we have no other alternatives.










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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')



You are right; I misread your answer "not exactly" which I thought was in disagreement with the comment - all scriptures are spiritual to the believers of respective scriptures.

Thanks.

Jiten Roy




From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 6:40 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')

 
I said what I meant. I did not say anything about Gita or Bible. I spoke about the Qurán and spoke about spiritual elements in it. I am not sure why are you trying say stuff that has NOT been said?

I am not sure what urged you to bring other religious books into this discussion?

Anyway if you are interested, I am sharing some info about spiritual side of Islam. (There are tons more, let me know if you care for more)


Spiritual Gems of Islam: Insights & Practices from the Qur'an, Hadith, Rumi & Muslim Teaching Stories to Enlighten the Heart & Mind


Divine Love: Islamic Literature and the Path to God



Physicians of the Heart: A Sufi View of the 99 Names of Allah



Shalom!





-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jul 17, 2013 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')

 
What do you mean - not exactly; do you think Gita, Bible, Tripitaka, Torah have any less spirituality in them?

Could you cite a few examples of spirituality in Quran?

Jiten Roy



From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')

 
Mr, Rahman,
"ALL"  religious scripture  are spiritual  >  "ONLY" for the believers of that specific scripture.


>>>>>>>>>> Not exactly. Seekers of spirituality can find wisdom and spirituality in the Qurán. It requires an open mind.


You are right, "Quran is not an an exception!"


>>>>>> Yeah, the Qurán has many similarities with other revelations and many exceptions as well. That is why I call it unique.


Have a nice day.

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jul 16, 2013 5:24 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')

 
Mr, Rahman,
"ALL"  religious scripture  are spiritual  >  "ONLY" for the believers of that specific scripture. 
You are right, "Quran is not an an exception!"







On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 6:08 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from QR included below]
Most believed that it was revealed about 3 yrs after Muhammad (SWS) started getting his revelation (613 CE). Problem with this notion is, "Is it possible that the 'ALMIGHTY' Creator curse someone  with such a strong word ('Perish' ) and he will live normal life for TEN additional years?"  


>>>>>>>>>>> Like the Bible, there are prophecies made by the holy Qurán. Sura Lahab was such a chapter where future of Abu Lahab was foretold.

It was a golden opportunity to Abu Lahab to prove the Qurán wrong. All he needed to do is to embrace Islam within next ten years but out of arrogance he did not do so. Abu Lahab was a leader but there were other leaders in his clan as well.

The Qurán is a spiritual book which is unique. 

So Abu Lahab's future was foretold in it. We have seen similar prophecies in the Bible as well. ( Please read the attached file)

If you have more questions, feel free to ask.


Shalom!



-----Original Message-----
From: Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Jul 13, 2013 6:30 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')

 
There is a disagreement among the earliest historians of Islam about "the timing" when Sura Lahab was revealed . Most believed that it was revealed about 3 yrs after Muhammad (SWS) started getting his revelation (613 CE). Problem with this notion is, "Is it possible that the 'ALMIGHTY' Creator curse someone  with such a strong word ('Perish' ) and he will live normal life for TEN additional years?"  

Many found it as an absurd notion. They believed that this sura was revealed sometime after the death of Abu Talib and Khadiza (3yrs before Hizrat) when Abu Lahab became the chief of Hashemi clan and  "WITHDREW" his clan PROTECTION for Muhammad.  
Muhammad enjoyed the protection of his Clan by the former chief (uncle) Abu Talib. 

 



On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 9:02 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
This idiot gives another stupid interpretation.  That 'revelation' came about when Abu Lahab, Prophet's uncle and former brother in law ( beyai), was killed during the raid of the caravan at Badr.  That idiot has not studied his religion as much as I did.  Such idiots may live in fool's heaven but are well despised by the learned members of this forum.


On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 6:46 PM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
Keep Trying. ......

"Kamal Das is a certifide hate monger, who goes around and give out information without any references." - who certified me?

>>>>>>>> Anyone who read carefully know what I said.

Your idiocy knows no bounds.
There is no bad verses, eh!


>>>>>>>> YUP. But I am not forcing my opinion on you or badmouthing your faith. You do that like a desperate drowning man every week!!

A blind idiot like QR would see nothing.  Read for example, Sura CXI.  It says, " Perish the hands of Abu Lahab, and perish he!/  His wealth avails him not, neither what he has earned;/ he shall roast in a flaming fire/ and his wife, the carrier of the firewood,/ upon her neck a rope of palm fiber.??" - If Abu Lahab was such a cursed man, how did his sons marry the daughters of the "Holy Prophet"

>>>>>>>>>> Abu Lahab was prophet's (PBUH) uncle. The marriage took place before revelation came from Allah (SWT). There is nothing wrong with it.

The small Surah you mentioned was revealed ten years prior to Abu Lahab's death (Approx). It shows the spiritual power of the Qur'an. For being a consistent enemy of Islam, it was foretold, he will end up in hell and will not embrace Islam (Like most Arabs).

To prove the Qur'an false, all Abu Lahab required to do is to say, he became a Muslim by reciting the Shahada but his arrogance kept him away from Islam and proved the Qur'an's unique spiritual quality.


Maybe you ought to study the Qur'an for a change.

Shalom!





-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Jul 12, 2013 7:33 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')

 
"Kamal Das is a certifide hate monger, who goes around and give out information without any references." - who certified me?  Your idiocy knows no bounds.
There is no bad verses, eh!  A blind idiot like QR would see nothing.  Read for example, Sura CXI.  It says, " Perish the hands of Abu Lahab, and perish he!/  His wealth avails him not, neither what he has earned;/ he shall roast in a flaming fire/ and his wife, the carrier of the firewood,/ upon her neck a rope of palm fiber.??" - If Abu Lahab was such a cursed man, how did his sons marry the daughters of the "Holy Prophet".


"There were plenty of times when I proved his lies." - convince your fellow members about it.  An ignoramus like you could never prove anything ever.



On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 6:35 PM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
It is apparent from your conversation that you, obviously, pick and choose good verses to follow; that's what probably 98% Muslims do as well. Thanks God, for that.


>>>>>>>>>>> There is no bad verses unless you do not have any idea about the context.

for example when late Ziaur Rahman announced independence from Pakistan, people knew it was a declaration of resistance. We had to fight. We did not have the luxury to exchange flowers or ramdan dates with fellow Pakistani (At that time it was one country) solders. So only very fanatic anti-Bangladeshi people can see that day in a negative light. Once we understand how Pak army was attempting to destroy our land and people, we can justify our resistance.

Similarly, the frequently discussed verse has context and can satisfy the most critical person when given the context.

I know my stance require a little knowledge of the Qur'an and a sense of fairness. Otherwise anyone can easily take Ramayana, Bible, Mahabharata etc and make it look ugly.

Prophet of Islam was a warrior; he introduced all those violent verses to direct his followers into the war.

>>>>>>>>>>> You may call him a reluctant warrior (If you must touch war). He took all sorts of abuse (Starvation, mocking, stone trowing, all kind of physical abuse you can imagine) for 13 long years and left his city searching for peace. However his love for his followers was always greater, so when Meccans attempted to destroy Medina (And his followers), he resisted.

In my view, those verses should not be considered as part of Islam, as they were introduced only to direct army at war.

>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for sharing and I do understand where you coming from (not promoting war). However Islam claims to be a complete code of life. If you actually take time to study the verse and verses around it, you will see how wonderfully human right concerns were addressed. How Muslims always tried to avoid conflict. However if a war is imposed on us, we know how to conduct ourselves.

Unfortunately, those verses were also included in the Quran by its writers without much pretext.

>>>>>>>>> They are there.

Those verses are being used now by vested interest religious groups to direct their followers to fight opponents, which could be other Muslims as well.

>>>>>>>>> This has been a problem with people of all religion and people without religion. It has nothing to do with heavenly scriptures but has to do with people like us.

Every conflict against these groups is now a fight against Islam. Don't you think - those who think Islam should not be blamed for such fights should also demand expunging those violent verses from the religious scriptures?


>>>>>>>>>> It may look at this way to people who know little about Islam. However when I watch any conference of our freedom fighters (Mostly Muslims) they do not have such issues. Most of them are practicing Muslims and proud of their contribution in our war of liberation. Because as per scripture, if someone attack our existance, God approves us to resist to protect our lives, families, businesses and faith.

When someone denies or ignores the existence of offensive verses in the scripture, he/she commits deceitful acts.

>>>>>>>>> I do not call them offensive verses but verses with instruction about warfare (Mostly chapter 8 and 9).

Thanks God, we have people like Kamal Das and Abul Azad in this forum to illuminate us with knowledge to dispel endless propaganda and misinformation in the forum.


>>>>>>>>>> Kamal Das is a certifide hate monger, who goes around and give out information without any references. Abul Azad is new, so I'll wait a bit longer to see how he operates. If you chose to get your information from the likes of Kamal Das, you will not understand Islam.

There were plenty of times when I proved his lies but you can take a horse to water, you cannot force it to drink!   ;-)

Shalom!

-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 11, 2013 5:24 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')

 
"
When a religious scripture instructs soldiers to kill infidel civilian, especially young men, and take all women as the war booty after conquering a region

>>>>>>>> first, kindly be specific which verse you are talking about. ALSO kindly read one or two verses around it. I can clearly say, ISLAM does NOT support punishing innocent civilians of any faith."


We have discussed those offensive verses ( such as lay wait for infidels to smite their head off, etc., etc.) before, and, I remember, you argued that those verses were written at the time of war, so they should be judged with proper perspectives. I agree. I am just saying those verses do exist, and there are millions of Muslims who do not care to interpret them with proper context as well; they want to use them solely for politics. And, we can't do anything about it. 
 
It is apparent from your conversation that you, obviously, pick and choose good verses to follow; that's what probably 98% Muslims do as well. Thanks God, for that.
 
Prophet of Islam was a warrior; he introduced all those violent verses to direct his followers into the war. In my view, those verses should not be considered as part of Islam, as they were introduced only to direct army at war. Unfortunately, those verses were also included in the Quran by its writers without much pretext. Those verses are being used now by vested interest religious groups to direct their followers to fight opponents, which could be other Muslims as well. Every conflict against these groups is now a fight against Islam. Don't you think - those who think Islam should not be blamed for such fights should also demand expunging those violent verses from the religious scriptures? 
 
When someone denies or ignores the existence of offensive verses in the scripture, he/she commits deceitful acts. Your reasoning and understanding fall into the level of a simple minded uneducated person, which you are not, obviously. I expect more openness and truthfulness in people, like you. Thanks God, we have people like Kamal Das and Abul Azad in this forum to illuminate us with knowledge to dispel endless propaganda and misinformation in the forum.
 
Jiten Roy


From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 4:09 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')

 
Q. Rahman believes there is nothing wrong in the religious scriptures. To which I say - there are many wrong instructions in all scriptures.


>>>>>>>>>> Right or wrong depends on perspective. Some parts of religion has to be taken as belief. Other parts can be verified and criticized (If needed). It is only natural you and I have some differences of opinions.

Many of those wrong instructions have been expunged from all other religions, but Islam.


>>>>>>>>>> It will be helpful if you can be specific. My faith make sense to me and I feel no compulsion to attack other religions.

When a religious scripture instructs soldiers to kill infidel civilian, especially young men, and take all women as the war booty after conquering a region

>>>>>>>> first, kindly be specific which verse you are talking about. ALSO kindly read one or two verses around it. I can clearly say, ISLAM does NOT support punishing innocent civilians of any faith.

that's a wrong instruction,I would say, no matter who gave it. No context or explanation is needed to find this out.

>>>>>>>>> It is always important to understand context. In a battle field when you are being attacked, you can defend yourself. If someone attack your family, you can defend yourself. However it is WRONG to attack innocent people for no good reason (Like the recent Iraq war).

We have seen such implementation in Bangladesh, and also in Afghanistan, when Taliban forces raided the area under the control of the Northern Alliance; Taliban initiated a mass rape there. 

>>>>>>>>>> There are many good qualities among Afghan people and there are some WRONG traditions among Afghans as well. A good example will be even 100 years ago they used to lend people money with usury/high interest attached to it. This is prohibited in Islam.

However I am not aware of mass rape. Kindly share the source of it. Since this is the first time I am hearing of this allegation.

This practice is mostly seen in the Muslim army.

>>>>>>>>>>> Actually it is seen in all army. Since you have a "Beef" against Muslims, you misquote this here. Starting from the first Gulf war (Going on recent wars) the crusade was mentioned by US army. The six day war by Israel was mentioned by the army chief.

Even a needless war in Iraq seen many example of it.

Shalom!



-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Jul 6, 2013 10:35 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')

 
Q. Rahman believes there is nothing wrong in the religious scriptures. To which I say - there are many wrong instructions in all scriptures. Many of those wrong instructions have been expunged from all other religions, but Islam.

When a religious scripture instructs soldiers to kill infidel civilian, especially young men, and take all women as the war booty after conquering a region that's a wrong instruction,I would say, no matter who gave it. No context or explanation is needed to find this out.

Many Muslim soldiers still believe in this instruction, and they try to implement it in the warfare, even in a war between two Muslim regions. We have seen such implementation in Bangladesh, and also in Afghanistan, when Taliban forces raided the area under the control of the Northern Alliance; Taliban initiated a mass rape there.  The conquerors usually legitimize the scriptural instruction by declaring captured civilians as against Islam or infidels. This practice is mostly seen in the Muslim army.
 
Jiten Roy



From: Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 12:36 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')

 
"Muhammd won in the short run, but in the long run the Umayyads slaughtered his descendants---"
 >>> You are absolutely right!
Fatima died about 6months after the death of her father. He had lot of mental sufferings after  Muhammd's death,  inflicted by fellow Muslims. Within 10 days of the death of Muhammad, 'Fadak' was confiscated by 1st Caliph Abu Bakar from Fatima /Ali.  Though Mohammad himself gifted it to his daughter. Muhammad owned it as "BOOTY" from the Jews of Khayber.  Abu Bakr even did not give her chance to dry her "tears" after her father's death!
Ali did not get power till 656 CE, a long 24 yrs after the death of Muhammad!   As soon as he got in power, the 1st civil war (Fitna) between Muslims started. He had the 1st war with Ayesha (mother in law).   During his reign (656-661) he had the following wars:
  1. Battle of the Camel (between Ali and Ayesha)  - December, 656 CE
  2. Battle of Siffin  (between Ali and Muwabiya Ibne Abu Sufyan) – July, 657 C ( Kharijites break away from Ali)
  3.  Battle of Nahrawan (Kharijites defeated by Ali)  - 658 C
  4. Conquest of Egypt – 659 CE 
Ali was brutally murdered (by a poisonous dragger) by one of the Kharijii on Januarry 661 CE.  His elder son Hasan was brutally murdered by poison (conspiracy of Muawiya Ibne Abu Sufian) in 670 CE. His 2nd son Hussian Ibne Ali was brutally murdred by soldiers of Yazid bin Muawiya bin Abu Sufian in the battle of Karbala on October 680 CE.  
 Within 48 years of death of Prophet Muhammad, all of his able adult male immediate family members were brutally killed by fellow Muslims.
       


On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
No in depth analysis is required to understand the events of the prophet hood of Muhammad.  Prior to the claim of meeting the archangel Gabriel, Muhammad was trained by a Nestorian Monk named Sergius/Bahira on religious stories.  After such claim, in course of over ten years, he got the loyalty of not more than seventy followers from a community of over five thousand.  Even that loyalty was bought out with wealth from different sources, e.g., those of Khadija and Uthman among others.  The verses revealed in Mecca were futile effort to earn recognition.  Then he migrated to Medina where he successfully used the Christians against the Jews, looted the caravans and Jewish enclaves, and collected enough wealth to hire mercenaries for his Mecca expedition.  After 'conquering' his dreamland Mecca, he was not sure of security to live in that place and preferred to live in Medina.  Ultimately he probably got killed by his wives, Ayesha and Hafsa, as the Shiite believe. 

Islam was the result of a tribal feud between the Umayyad and the Hashemite community.  Muhammd won in the short run, but in the long run the Umayyads slaughtered his descendants.  Not even his beloved daughter, Fatima, was spared.  A few months after the death of Muhammad, Fatima was burnt down with the house she lived in by the thugs who were close associates of the Prophet.


On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com> wrote:
 
"---which in the eyes of non-believers like the Quraish community was nothing more than a bunch of "rantings of a deranged mind"
>>> One may look at chapter 17, 18 and 19 of this article.
 


On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 7:42 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
This incorrigible fool, QR, does not know that the concept of nation/state grew after the French Revolution.  Earlier, a nation was properly described as kingdom. Supernatural power had to be invoked to ensure the legitimacy of the rulers.  The Prophet of Islam did not care much about his disciples forming a nation after his death.  It is well known that he did nothing to compile and preserve the holy revelations which in the eyes of non-believers like the Quraish community was nothing more than a bunch of "rantings of a deranged mind".  The quote was taken from the preface of "Muhammad and the Qur'an" - Rafiq Zakaria (p. x, l.12).


On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 8:09 PM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
Member Abul,

Any credible scholar of Islam knows batter of badr was defensive. The expulsion of Banu Qaynuqa was not a conflict but a result of treason they committed. As per treaty they should have received death penalty but the prophet gave them a lighter punishment. Later on when Banu qurayza did the same thing again, he allowed them to pick up a judge of their choice and they were punishment as per written agreement. Which is well known as the Medina Charter.

Looks like you are making up stuff as you go. Anyone who have some basic understanding of history will tell you that, you are manufacturing fiction here.

Campaign/Treaty of Hudaybiya

>>>>>>> Bunch of Muslims were going for pilgrimage when Meccans stopped them. Muslims did not get into fight but settled for a compromise and returned to Medina. How is this an attack?


. It is the so-called moderates who (knowingly or unknowingly) deceive the faithful ignorant Muslims by their lies and hypocrisy.  We must understand the very fact the prophet Muhammad was a man of 7th century and we are in the 21st.  Anyone who believes that all the teaching of Islam is mandatory [example, sharia/fighting infidels (jihad) etc] is a "fundamentalist", NO EXCEPTION!

>>>>>>>>>>>> NO where in Islam it is prescribed to attack non-violent non-Muslims. Maybe you are stuck with few texts without any knowledge of the contexts.

Secondly the term "Fundamentalist" is a negative word in context of Christianity. As per scripture of Islam, the fundamentals of Islam are sound. I do not know how long you have been a member of this forum but we have discussed a lot about fundamentals of Islam. Please feel free to read up on them.


"prophet Muhammad (PBUH) chose to forgive EVERYONE who persecuted the prophet PERSONALLY".
 >>> Not true!
Prophet Muhammad ordered to kill ten individuals on the day of conquest of Mecca even if they were found inside the Kaba. Among these ten three were female.


>>>>>>>>>> This is the problem of knowing half truths.

Kindly RE-READ what I said. I said he forgave everyone who offended him personally.( I made it in large fonts to get your attention but you missed it). 

Among these ten individuals, there were people who were inciting people to kill prophet Muhammad (PBUH). At that time, he was the head of Islamic state and any conspiracy to kill him is considered an attack on the state. Prophet forgave everyone when they tried to kill him for 13 long years. He did not fight anyone. Rather left his beloved town peacefully in search of peaceful solution. He was given permission to defend Medina when the Meccan pagans started to attack Medina to wipe out the new Islamic state.

Do realize you could have a fist fight with lawyer Obama when he was a civil rights lawyer in south side Chicago. If you even verbally threat him (The same person), it will be considered as an attack on the United States of America and you will surely end up in jail for a long time. If you found conspiring to harm the state, you will find your rear end in some prison cell without any trial (Like Guantanamo bay).

Therefore, it is important to understand what is personal and what is a crime against a state. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was duty bound to punish anyone who were inspiring people to kill him or harm city of Medina. Otherwise he forgave thousands of people who attempted to kill him, who tortured him, mocked him, insulted him, persecuted him for many years.

I am sorry to say that, you do not even understand the situation but make comments that is inaccurate.



Another example of similar situation will be when Bangabandhu allpowed Pakistani officers to leave around 71. This was a settlement where Pakistanis were given exemptions. If any officer still wanted to kill Bengalis, what should we have done to that idiot? Obviously you have no choice but to kill them.

Similarly those ten people were still trying destabilize the peaceful amnesty given by prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Some people were killed for their own actions. Rest of them (Who submitted without any provocation or bloodshed)  were forgiven.

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 1, 2013 6:24 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')

 
"list more than sixty failed or successful battle (expedition /Raid),"- the number of Gazwas committed by the Prophet was more like 89 than like sixty.  Without religious bias, one would brand him as a successful bandit who used the name of almighty Allah to serve his own interest.







On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com> wrote:
 
"Make your point and we can share our views" 
 As I said, the subject is very vast and beyond the scope of discussion in this forum. However, because of your insistence I am answering youclaim on June 23rd according to the written testimony/texts of those earliest Muslim historians.
"Only punished those who wanted to destroy all Muslims from the face of the earth.—"
 >>> Not true! The truth is: In the Biography of  (SWS) by pious Muslims list more than sixty failed or successful battle (expedition /Raid), undertaken by him, in last 10 years of his life in Medina (622-632 CE).  Among those conflicts only two were defensive  (The battle of Wuhud and Trench).  The lists of those conflicts are:
 Ghazwa or Maghazi (where prophet Muhammad himself participated):
 623 CE:  1.  Al –Abwa, 2.  Buwat, 3.  Al-Ushayrah
624 CE : 4. Badr (first), 5. Badr, 6.  Expulsion of Banu Qaynuqa, 7.  Al- Sawiq,.  Ghatafan9.  Bahran
625 CE10.  Ohud, 11.   Humra Al- Asad 12.  Expulsion of Banu Nadir 13.  Dhat –Al- Riqa of Nakhl, 14.  Another Badr
626 CE:  15.  Dumat –Al- Jandal16.  Banu Mustaliq of  Khuzah
627 CE: 17.  Battle of Ditch (Trench /Khandaq) , 18.  Banu Qurayza massacre, 19.  Banu Lihyan of Hudhayl20. Dhu Qarad
628 CE21. Campaign/Treaty of Hudaybiya , 22.  Khaybar   23. Wadi Al-Qura
630 CE: 24.  Conquest of Mecca, 25.  Hunayun, 26.  Al Taif
631 CE: 27.  Tabuk
Sariyyyah  (where prophet  Muhammad did not take part physically):
Thanniyyat Al-Murah,   Al Is, Al Kharran, Nakhala,   Al – Qardah,  Al-Raji,  Bir- Munah, Dhu Al Qassah,  Turabah,  Yemen,  Al-Kadid,  Fadak,  Banu Salaym,  Al Ghamrah, Qatan,  Al-Qurata of Hawazin,  Banu Murrah in Fadak,  Yumn and Jinab,  Al Jamun, Judham,  Wadi Al Qura,  Assasination of Yusayr bin Rizam in Khaybar,  Another attack in Khaybar,  Assassination of Abu Rafi  in Khaybar ,  Assassination of Kaab bin Al-Ashraf,  Assassination of Asma binte Marwan,  Attack and killing of Khalid bin Sufiyan, Mutah,  Dhat Atlah, Banu Al Anbar, Banu Murrah, Dhat Al-Salasil, Valley of Idam,  Al- Ghabah, Al Khabat."
 [Ref: Al Tabari (839-923 CE), 'Tarikh Al Rasul Waal Muluk', Vol-9, Page 1756-1760]
 "Even when the whole arabia was under the feet of Muslim (After Mecca was under Muslims) they did not take revenge, -----,"
 >>> The whole credit goes to Al-Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib (prophet's uncle) and Abu Sufiyan bin Harb.  These two men saved obvious blood shade; to know more, one needs to know what happened in the tent of Muhammad on the night before the "attack and conquest of Mecca". It is the story of "negotiation" between Muhammad and Abu Sufiyan with the help of Al-Abbas. Abu Sufian risked his life to prevent serious blood shed in this conflict; he was about to be killed by Omar ibne khattab on that night.
"prophet Muhammad (PBUH) chose to forgive EVERYONE who persecuted the prophet PERSONALLY".
 >>> Not true!
Prophet Muhammad ordered to kill ten individuals on the day of conquest of Mecca even if they were found inside the Kaba. Among these ten three were female.
 "The important thing to understand that, fundamental values of Islam remained the same".
 >>> True!
The  "fundamentalist" talks and tries to establish the "fundamental values" of Islam. It is the so-called moderates who (knowingly or unknowingly) deceive the faithful ignorant Muslims by their lies and hypocrisy.  We must understand the very fact the prophet Muhammad was a man of 7th century and we are in the 21st.  Anyone who believes that all the teaching of Islam is mandatory [example, sharia/fighting infidels (jihad) etc] is a "fundamentalist", NO EXCEPTION!
Thanks a lot Mr. QR. Please don't be offended, nothing personal!



On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 2:23 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
  >> I am sure you did. That's why my inference about you was, " your understanding of Islam is very primitive---",


>>>>>>>>>> It will be more useful, if you leave the petty personal attacks and get to YOUR POINT (If you have one).

Make your point and we can share our views (That is the idea of this forum/blog).

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jun 26, 2013 5:43 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')

 
"I have been fortunate to spend time with many scholars of Islam (Both Muslims and non-Muslims)--"  >> I am sure you did. That's why my inference about you was, " your understanding of Islam is very primitive---", and I advised you to learn Islam from the earliest Islamic sources to know  their "hypocrisy and biasses".   Volume VI-IX of 'History Al-Tabari' covers the time of Prophet Muhammad. If you are too lazy for that then try to spend some time to 'blogs' where untold story of Islam  are often discussed and verify their references from the earliest Islamic sources.  Learn by yourself, don't rely any one!  On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 8:11 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:   Mr. Rahman, Let me correct you, "I have no blog and I am not the writer of the article of the link I provided". If you have any questions about those article, please make your "comment"  directly in the comment section of those articles.  >>>>>>>> will do. At the same time, the arguments made in those blogs and links provided are without logic but shows a visible discomfort and ignorance of Islam. I only tried to point those out in my last post. I have been fortunate to spend time with many scholars of Islam (Both Muslims and non-Muslims). I am aware of differences but I also knows fundamentally Islam is sound. I agree that, subject is vast but if you study the life of the last prophet (PBUH), you will see Islam was very liberating and compassionate. prophet (PBUH) only punished people who fought against Muslim umma and forgave everyone who wanted to harm him personally. Which says a lot about this man and how Islam was established. Shalom! -----Original Message----- From: Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2013 1:10 pm Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')   Mr. Rahman, Let me correct you, "I have no blog and I am not the writer of the article of the link I provided". If you have any questions about those article, please make your "comment"  directly in the comment section of those articles.   Mr. Rahman, I have the chance to read many of your comments about Islam. It appears to me that your understanding of Islam is very primitive for the fact that the comment you make is very often argued by a stereotype sets of "words (that you mentioned)" in every mosques around the globe by al kinds of Clergies. If you really believe that "religion" is an essential part of your life, please try to learn it from the EARLIEST POSSIBLE SOURCES before it become contaminated by thousands of dedicated hands who tried to shape "Islam" according to their own way. Few of those earliest sources are: A) The Life of Muhammad — A Translation of Ibn Ishaq's (704-768 CE) Sirat Rasul Allah – A. GUILLAUME, Oxford University Press, Karachi, 1955 B) The History of Al-Tabari (838-923 CE) – "Tarikh al-rasul wa'l –muluk", Translated and annoted by W. Montogomery Watt and M.V. McDonald (University of Edinburg), State University of New Yok press 1987. C) Ketab al-Maghazi- by  Al-Waqidi (748-822 CE), Ed Marseden Jones, London 1966. Obviously the subject is very vast and beyond the scope of discussion in this forum. You will be surprised knowing the "differences" what is said in those text and what we hear from our Clergies.    On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 7:23 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:   member Abul, I read your blogs and links and I am not sure which parts of Islam you have problem with? When a group of people establish a state, they have to bring down laws, punishments and processes. This is true for any country anywhere in the world. In our beloved Bangladesh, we saw a lot of violence in post liberation Bangladesh. One member of Mukto-mona even said (In last few days) that, post liberation Bangladesh saw more minority property confiscated than Pakistan era. Regardless of your ideology, it is utter idiotic to expect once you have a functioning state, you will not have codified laws to protect innocent civilians and the state itself against attacking enemies. If a state could functioned without laws and punishment, the US could have run the whole country with candy bars instead of trillions of dollars in defense, police, jails (The largest in the world) etc. The important thing to understand that, fundamental values of Islam remained the same. That did not change with time. Even when the whole arabia was under the feet of Muslim (After Mecca was under Muslims) they did not take revenge, prophet Muhammad (PBUH) chose to forgive EVERYONE who persecuted the prophet PERSONALLY. During the whole life of prophet Muhammad (PBUH), he forgave every personal offender. Only punished those who wanted to destroy all Muslims from the face of the earth. I think it is a very compassionate and noble approach. Shalom! -----Original Message----- From: Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Jun 22, 2013 9:07 pm Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')   Mr. Roy, You are welcome! I believe that the problem with these people is a "LESSER ONE"!  Not only because they are fewer in number but also we identify them easily by their speech and action. They have no hesitancy declaring clearly and truthfully from where do they get the inspiration (Quran/Sira and Hadit).  Is there any ambiguity of Dr. Firoz kamal's article about the message he tries to 'feed us'? Is there any doubt about his intention and root of his inspiration? The greater problem is with "us", the so-called moderates.  Religious hypocrites always deceive us by their "PICK AND CHOOSE"  verses/hadits/sira (biography of the prophet) according to "THEIR" convenience.  These hypocrites continue keep the moderate Muslims in darkness mainly by two tactics (knowingly or unknowingly):  1.  By  "NOT MENTIONING" that many of the tolerant/peaceful  "Meccan" verses are abrogated by more violent "Medina Verses".  In Islam, it is called 'nasikh' and 'mansukh. (http://www.sunnipath.com/library/books/B0040P0021.aspx). http://www.amarblog.com/valomanus/posts/166422 http://www.amarblog.com/valomanus/posts/166530 2.  Whenever any of this  "jihadi" does any atrocities or killing innocent people, these hypocrites always "STAND UP" and declare:  "IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM".   This is going on, and on, and on, and on --.  They sang this song again and again and again whenever any Terrorist incidence happens anywhere in this planet; and "we" the moderate dance with their songs. We forget the very fact that "We" can utter this song millions and billions of time and stay in a stage of "DENIAL" and continue blaming "THESE PEOPLE" forever!  It never solves the problem.  If we do not even acknowledge, identify and understand a "PROBLEM" how can we think of solving it?  We are always find reason to "blame others" and in no time label others as "Islam hater" if he/she criticize my "HOLY FAITH".    When we continue believing that "FAITH IS A VIRTUE", where is the moral ground of prohibiting others to practice "ANY FAITH' one may hold?  If my "faith" is a virtue (according to "my" understanding of my holy scripture/text/ learning etc), why not yours?  Is it because you are not in agreement with that of mine?   Is it not Hypocrisy?  Professor Richard Dawkins nicely argued in this video how these terrorists get their support from the moderates: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT1DL7cIdjk On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:   Thank you, Mr. Azad. Amazing documentary portrait of Jihad, a must see documentary. Jiten Roy  From: Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com> To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2013 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')   That was Tareque Masud's "Run way"- (link below).  But, that was "ONLY" a movie!  The real life events are in Shahriar Kabir's documentary: "Portrait of Jihad."  PORTRAIT OF JIHAD - A documentary by Shahriar Kabir - 57mins http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=B9LiuIZAI5c Tareque Masud's Run way- full movie -90 mins http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WDVMHTBjDM On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 11:20 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:   Have you watched the movie by Tarek Masud which some one posted on this forum a couple of weeks ago?  Sent from my iPhone On Jun 21, 2013, at 7:58 PM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:   It is a good one; quite funny too. From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> To: Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 2:57 PM Subject: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')     This for that demented sinner, that fierce 'dhalim' from the age of Jahiliya == F. M. Kamal Subject: ::
...

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