Banner Advertiser

Sunday, March 24, 2013

Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH



1. The Geeta is also called Geetopanishad which means that it itself is also an Upanishad. The Geeta is a part of the Mahabharata. There are many Upanishads, it is not a single book.
2. According to one verse of Rig-Veda (an ancient scripture) Brahman came from the mouth, Kshatrita from the arms, Vaishya from the thighs, and Shudra from the feet of the sacrificial Man. 
3. The history of caste system is long and complex. It did not exist when the Aryanas came to India. Caste means Varna or color. The Aryans (white in complexion) later called them "dwija" (twice born) and included Brahman, Kshatriya, and Vaishya. The non-Aryans (dark skinned) were Shudras. These were herediatary. Vertical upward movement however was possible. Access to knowledge depended on the caste. Only Brahmans had access to highest knowledge Veda. 
3. There is another concept called "jati" (birth) that clearly expresses the fact that profession will be determined by birth. 
5. Dr. Roy observes 11-day mourning although he is not a Brahmin. I salute him. But as I have said before, social realities in the Indian sub-continent are quite different. Eating together, selection of bride and groom, and selection of priests for religious festivals are not yet caste independent.
6. In the modern world we do not need the concepts of caste-ism or caste system. We do not need to reinterpret it or even explore its "true" meaning. The Indian or the state of Bangladesh does not use and need it. Let it die a natural death.    

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH
 

Dr. Bain, 

I do not have full trust on any of those mythical scriptural texts that are mostly written by people from higher caste. Even Ramayon has many versions and interpretations. Those are stories written by some people, based on their knowledge, interpretation, and bias. Someone wrote even Bhagabat Gita; it's extracted from Upanishad, if I am not mistaken.
 
Anyway, we have to see things with practicality. You can propose something very good but impractical, that will not do any good. You are practically asking everybody to ignore caste system altogether. I want that too. But, is it achievable quickly? I think it is not. That's where I differ from you.  
 
Hindus have done many stupid things in the past, and caste-ism is at the top of the list. By caste-ism, I mean exploitation of Caste-system. There is a difference between caste-system and caste-ism. If it were not birthright, it would not have exploitative feature.  I have no support for the Caste-ism, which needs to go.
 
Jiten Roy



--- On Sun, 3/24/13, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, March 24, 2013, 9:59 PM

 
Let me make a few last comments on this thread.
 
I can see that too many Hindus are too much into their forefathers' stupidity of the caste system, and that the caste system is not totally going away any time soon. How could it go away, if the process did not start with people of Dr. Roy's caliber?

But let me ask Dr. Roy, when was this 'later' when the caste system became a birthright and ugly? How about the time of Krishna? Was it not a birthright and stupidity at that time? How did Karna get the curse from his guru, due to which he could not kill Arjun? Because his guru (I have very little interest in remembering his name, or finding it from an internet search.) thought that Karna was a Kshratriya, but had identified himself as a Shudra. The big guru was impressed with his warrior quality, but did not ignore his Shudra birth origin; nor did he declare him a Kshatriya. (Please do not tell me that hiding one's identity was bad; the guru had no proof that Karna lied to him.)
 
I see it as a rotten egg, a colossal shame, when people of Dr. Roy's caliber want to bring an ancient stupid concept in its original form to the 21st century.
 
Sukhamaya Bain

=====================================================
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH
 
"people have many professions. The same person often has many talents."

Yes, people could have many talents, but individual is usually known for one particular talent, usually his/her most prominent talent. People, in the ancient time, did not have any other way to categorize workforce.  Problem with caste-system started later, when such category became a birthright. After that, caste-ism started to show it's ugly head.
Yes, it will be better if we can wipe out the caste-ism a . One way is eliminating such categories from the society, which will take much longer span.  In the interim, we can diffuse the impact of caste-ism by bringing the concept to the original form. Let's say, a family consists of Brahmin, Shudra, and Khoitriya - why would they hate one another? That's the idea. I know many people who are not Brahmin by birth, but can recite Bhagabat Gita line-by-line without opening the book; why won't they be considered as Brahmins? That's my point.
Jiten Roy
--- On Sun, 3/24/13, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, March 24, 2013, 9:16 AM

 
Defending the caste system in any way is at best foolish and living in the negative umpteenth century. It is worse than an Islamic idiot branding their 6th century holy books as having the last words on any knowledge and wisdom.
 
A modern educated person should stop defining people in terms of the caste system. That would stop a major driver of hatred, division and exploitation that have been going on in our subcontinent for too long.
 
Obviously, people have many professions. The same person often has many talents. Depending on what one is doing at the time, the same person can be a scientist, a writer, a cook, a farmer, a soccer player, a guitar player, and so one. The world does not need a stupid Hindu system to define anyone.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
=============================


__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] Fwd: Australian documents. [4 Attachments]

[Attachment(s) from Sitangshu Guha included below]


Australian on Bangladesh current situation and minority persecution---


Attachment(s) from Sitangshu Guha

4 of 4 File(s)


__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] মুখে গনতন্ত্র আর শেষ ভরসা সেনাবাহিনী??? বক্তব্য দিয়ে সেনাবাহিনী কে উসকে দিচ্ছেন??




"সেনাবাহিনী বসে থাকবে না, সময়মতো কাজ করবে: খালেদা জিয়া।" 
এই কথাটি উনি কি বলতে পারেন, এটা কি ষড়যন্ত্রমুলক কথাবার্তা নয়, এটা কি রাষ্ট্রদ্রোহিতা নয়? উনার মত নেত্রির মুখ থেকে এ কথা কি ভাবে বের হতে পারে? তা হলে কি বলা যায় না যে ক্ষমতার জন্য উনার মাথা খারাপ হয়ে গেছে?
মুখে গনতন্ত্র আর শেষ ভরসা সেনাবাহিনী??? বক্তব্য দিয়ে সেনাবাহিনী কে উসকে দিচ্ছেন??


__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH




Dr. Bain, 


I do not have full trust on any of those mythical scriptural texts that are mostly written by people from higher caste. Even Ramayon has many versions and interpretations. Those are stories written by some people, based on their knowledge, interpretation, and bias. Someone wrote even Bhagabat Gita; it's extracted from Upanishad, if I am not mistaken.

 

Anyway, we have to see things with practicality. You can propose something very good but impractical, that will not do any good. You are practically asking everybody to ignore caste system altogether. I want that too. But, is it achievable quickly? I think it is not. That's where I differ from you.  

 

Hindus have done many stupid things in the past, and caste-ism is at the top of the list. By caste-ism, I mean exploitation of Caste-system. There is a difference between caste-system and caste-ism. If it were not birthright, it would not have exploitative feature.  I have no support for the Caste-ism, which needs to go.

 

Jiten Roy




--- On Sun, 3/24/13, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, March 24, 2013, 9:59 PM

 

Let me make a few last comments on this thread.
 
I can see that too many Hindus are too much into their forefathers' stupidity of the caste system, and that the caste system is not totally going away any time soon. How could it go away, if the process did not start with people of Dr. Roy's caliber?

But let me ask Dr. Roy, when was this 'later' when the caste system became a birthright and ugly? How about the time of Krishna? Was it not a birthright and stupidity at that time? How did Karna get the curse from his guru, due to which he could not kill Arjun? Because his guru (I have very little interest in remembering his name, or finding it from an internet search.) thought that Karna was a Kshratriya, but had identified himself as a Shudra. The big guru was impressed with his warrior quality, but did not ignore his Shudra birth origin; nor did he declare him a Kshatriya. (Please do not tell me that hiding one's identity was bad; the guru had no proof that Karna lied to him.)
 
I see it as a rotten egg, a colossal shame, when people of Dr. Roy's caliber want to bring an ancient stupid concept in its original form to the 21st century.
 
Sukhamaya Bain

=====================================================
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH

 
"people have many professions. The same person often has many talents."

Yes, people could have many talents, but individual is usually known for one particular talent, usually his/her most prominent talent. People, in the ancient time, did not have any other way to categorize workforce.  Problem with caste-system started later, when such category became a birthright. After that, caste-ism started to show it's ugly head.
Yes, it will be better if we can wipe out the caste-ism a . One way is eliminating such categories from the society, which will take much longer span.  In the interim, we can diffuse the impact of caste-ism by bringing the concept to the original form. Let's say, a family consists of Brahmin, Shudra, and Khoitriya - why would they hate one another? That's the idea. I know many people who are not Brahmin by birth, but can recite Bhagabat Gita line-by-line without opening the book; why won't they be considered as Brahmins? That's my point.
Jiten Roy

--- On Sun, 3/24/13, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, March 24, 2013, 9:16 AM

 
Defending the caste system in any way is at best foolish and living in the negative umpteenth century. It is worse than an Islamic idiot branding their 6th century holy books as having the last words on any knowledge and wisdom.
 
A modern educated person should stop defining people in terms of the caste system. That would stop a major driver of hatred, division and exploitation that have been going on in our subcontinent for too long.
 
Obviously, people have many professions. The same person often has many talents. Depending on what one is doing at the time, the same person can be a scientist, a writer, a cook, a farmer, a soccer player, a guitar player, and so one. The world does not need a stupid Hindu system to define anyone.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
=============================





__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH



Let me make a few last comments on this thread.
 
I can see that too many Hindus are too much into their forefathers' stupidity of the caste system, and that the caste system is not totally going away any time soon. How could it go away, if the process did not start with people of Dr. Roy's caliber?

But let me ask Dr. Roy, when was this 'later' when the caste system became a birthright and ugly? How about the time of Krishna? Was it not a birthright and stupidity at that time? How did Karna get the curse from his guru, due to which he could not kill Arjun? Because his guru (I have very little interest in remembering his name, or finding it from an internet search.) thought that Karna was a Kshratriya, but had identified himself as a Shudra. The big guru was impressed with his warrior quality, but did not ignore his Shudra birth origin; nor did he declare him a Kshatriya. (Please do not tell me that hiding one's identity was bad; the guru had no proof that Karna lied to him.)
 
I see it as a rotten egg, a colossal shame, when people of Dr. Roy's caliber want to bring an ancient stupid concept in its original form to the 21st century.
 
Sukhamaya Bain

=====================================================
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH

 
"people have many professions. The same person often has many talents."

Yes, people could have many talents, but individual is usually known for one particular talent, usually his/her most prominent talent. People, in the ancient time, did not have any other way to categorize workforce.  Problem with caste-system started later, when such category became a birthright. After that, caste-ism started to show it's ugly head.
Yes, it will be better if we can wipe out the caste-ism a . One way is eliminating such categories from the society, which will take much longer span.  In the interim, we can diffuse the impact of caste-ism by bringing the concept to the original form. Let's say, a family consists of Brahmin, Shudra, and Khoitriya - why would they hate one another? That's the idea. I know many people who are not Brahmin by birth, but can recite Bhagabat Gita line-by-line without opening the book; why won't they be considered as Brahmins? That's my point.
Jiten Roy

--- On Sun, 3/24/13, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, March 24, 2013, 9:16 AM

 
Defending the caste system in any way is at best foolish and living in the negative umpteenth century. It is worse than an Islamic idiot branding their 6th century holy books as having the last words on any knowledge and wisdom.
 
A modern educated person should stop defining people in terms of the caste system. That would stop a major driver of hatred, division and exploitation that have been going on in our subcontinent for too long.
 
Obviously, people have many professions. The same person often has many talents. Depending on what one is doing at the time, the same person can be a scientist, a writer, a cook, a farmer, a soccer player, a guitar player, and so one. The world does not need a stupid Hindu system to define anyone.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
=============================





__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] একাত্তরে জেনোসাইড : ২৫ মার্চ কালরাত



একাত্তরে জেনোসাইড
২৫ মার্চ কালরাত
 ইমতিয়াজ আহমেদ
১৯৭১ সালের ২৫ মার্চের কালরাতে গণহত্যার সূচনা করে পাক হানাদার বাহিনী
'জেনোসাইড' শব্দটি আন্তর্জাতিকভাবে সূত্রবদ্ধ। ১৯৪৮ সালে জেনোসাইড কনভেনশন বা কনভেনশন অন দি প্রিভেনশন অ্যান্ড পানিশমেন্ট অব দি ক্রাইম অব জেনোসাইড অনুমোদিত হয় জাতিসংঘ সাধারণ পরিষদে। এতে বলা হয়, এবহড়পরফব রং ঃযব 'ফবষরনবৎধঃব ধহফ ংুংঃবসধঃরপ ফবংঃৎঁপঃরড়হ ড়ভ, রহ যিড়ষব ড়ৎ রহ ঢ়ধৎঃ, ড়ভ ধহ বঃযহরপ, ৎধপরধষ, ৎবষরমরড়ঁং, ড়ৎ হধঃরড়হধষ মৎড়ঁঢ়.'
অনেক সময় আমরা মাসকিলিং বা গণহত্যা বোঝাতেও জেনোসাইড ব্যবহার করে থাকি। কত সংখ্যক মানুষকে হত্যা করা হয়েছে, সেটা বড় কথা নয়। জাতিসংঘ যে সংজ্ঞা নির্ধারণ করে দিয়েছে, সেটা অনুযায়ী অল্পসংখ্যক লোকের মৃত্যুকেও আমরা জেনোসাইড বলতে পারি। বিংশ শতাব্দীতে বড় গণহত্যা হয় দ্বিতীয় বিশ্বযুদ্ধের আগে ও যুদ্ধ চলাকালে। হিটলারের নাৎসি বাহিনী পাইকারিভাবে ইহুদিদের নিধন করেছিল। এরও অনেক আগে অটোমান সাম্রাজ্যের আমলে আর্মেনিয়ায় জেনোসাইড সংঘটিত হয়েছিল। ষাটের দশকে ইন্দোনেশিয়ার সেনাবাহিনী জেনারেল সুহার্তোর নেতৃত্বে এ ধরনের নিষ্ঠুর হত্যা অভিযান পরিচালনা করেছিল। তাদের টার্গেট ছিল নিজ দেশের চীনা সম্প্রদায় এবং একই সঙ্গে কমিউনিস্ট পার্টির কর্মী-সমর্থকরা। 
আফ্রিকার রুয়ান্ডায় তুৎসি ও হুতু সম্প্রদায় পরস্পরকে নিশ্চিহ্ন করার জন্য যে হত্যাকাণ্ড সংঘটিত করে, সেটাও জেনোসাইডের পর্যায়ে পড়ে। কম্বোডিয়ার পলপটের নেৃতত্বেও একই ধরনের অপরাধ সংঘটিত হয়। আমাদের এই উপমহাদেশে চলি্লশের দশকে দেশ বিভাগের আগেও ও পরে ধর্মীয় সম্প্রদায়ের লোকেরা পরস্পরকে যেভাবে নিশ্চিহ্ন করতে চেয়েছে, সেটাও এ সংজ্ঞায় পড়ে। এ উগ্রপন্থার পেছনে কোনো আদর্শ কাজ করেনি। 
১৯৭১ সালে বাংলাদেশ ভূখণ্ডে পাকিস্তানি সেনাবাহিনী এবং তাদের এ দেশীয় সহযোগী আলবদর-রাজাকাররা যে হত্যাকাণ্ড সংঘটিত করে, সেটাও ছিল জেনোসাইড। ধর্মীয় কারণে এ হত্যাযজ্ঞ সংঘটিত করা হয়েছে, সেটা বলা যাবে না। কারণ যারা হত্যা করেছে এবং যারা এর শিকার হয়েছে তাদের বেশিরভাগ ছিল ইসলাম ধর্মাবলম্বী এবং আরও যোগ করা যায় যে, উভয়ে সুনি্ন সেক্টরভুক্ত। বাংলা ভাষায় কথা বলার কারণে হত্যা করা হয়েছে, সেটাও প্রধান কারণ ছিল না। কারণ, বাংলা তখন পাকিস্তানের অন্যতম রাষ্ট্রভাষা হিসেবে স্বীকৃত। জাতিগত বিদ্বেষও কারণ হতে পারে না। তাহলে কেন এ নিষ্ঠুরতা? এর উত্তরে বলা যায়, পাকিস্তানের সেনাবাহিনী এবং ক্ষমতায় থাকা প্রভাবশালী চক্র গণতন্ত্র চায়নি বলেই নির্বিচারে হত্যাকাণ্ড সংঘটিত করেছিল। ১৯৭০ সালের ডিসেম্বরের সাধারণ নির্বাচনে বাঙালিরা আওয়ামী লীগকে নিরঙ্কুশভাবে জয়ী করে। পাকিস্তানের ৩১৩ আসনের জাতীয় পরিষদে বঙ্গবন্ধু শেখ মুজিবুর রহমানের দল এককভাবেই ১৬৭ আসন লাভ করে। কিন্তু তাদের হাতে ক্ষমতা দেওয়া হবে না_ এটাই ছিল পাকিস্তানি সেনাবাহিনীর সিদ্ধান্ত। গণতন্ত্রের কারণে জেনোসাইড বাংলাদেশেই প্রথম। পাকিস্তানের সুযোগ ছিল প্রথমবারের মতো নির্বাচিত সরকার গঠন করার। কিন্তু সামরিক ও এলিটচক্র তা হতে দিল না। 
কেন ১৯৭১ সালের হত্যাকাণ্ডকে জেনোসাইড বলব? আমি ঢাকা বিশ্ববিদ্যালয়ের প্রেক্ষাপটেই বলছি। পাকিস্তানি সেনাবাহিনী কাদের হত্যা করেছে? তারা নির্বিচারে মেরেছে ছাত্রদের। নিহতদের অনেকে ছাত্ররাজনীতি করেছে, আবার কেউ কেউ একেবারেই আন্দোলনে শামিল ছিল না। তারা শিক্ষকদের হত্যা করেছে। বাগানের মালী এবং ছাত্রাবাসের দারোয়ানকে মেরেছে। বিশ্ববিদ্যালয়ের ছাত্রছাত্রীদের ক্যান্টিন মালিক মধুসূদন দে'কে হত্যা করেছে। ধর্ম, ভাষা, পেশা কিংবা নির্দিষ্ট রাজনৈতিক মতাদর্শের অনুসারী, ঠিক কী কারণে নিহতরা প্রতিপক্ষ_ সেটা পাকিস্তানি সৈন্যদের আচরণ থেকে নির্দিষ্ট করা যাবে না। তারা মূলত বাঙালিদের শত্রু হিসেবে চিহ্নিত করেছে এবং তাদের আংশিক বা সম্পূর্ণভাবে নিশ্চিহ্ন করতে সংকল্পবদ্ধ ছিল। সে সময়ে পাকিস্তানের প্রেসিডেন্ট জেনারেল ইয়াহিয়া খানের একটি উক্তি প্রণিধানযোগ্য। তিনি বলেছিলেন, 'করষষ ঃযৎবব সরষষরড়হ, ঃযবু রিষষ বধঃ ড়ঁঃ ড়ভ ড়ঁৎ যধহফং.'
বাংলাদেশে ১৯৭১ সালের জেনোসাইডে কত লোকের প্রাণ গেছে, সেটা নিয়ে বিতর্ক করছেন কেউ কেউ। বাংলাদেশ সরকারিভাবে বলেছে ৩০ লাখ। ভারত ও সোভিয়েত ইউনিয়নও এমন একটি সংখ্যাকেই মেনে নেয়। যুক্তরাষ্ট্রের কোনো কোনো গবেষণায় তিন লাখ মৃত্যু হয়েছে বলে ধারণা দেওয়া হয়েছে। আর পাকিস্তান বলেছে, 'মাত্র ২৬ হাজারের মতো মৃত্যু হয়েছে' ১৯৭১ সালে। 
আমরা জানি যে, একাত্তরে কেবল পাকিস্তানি সেনাবাহিনী এবং রাজাকার-আলবদরদের হাতে বাংলাদেশের মানুষের মৃত্যু হয়নি। এদের হাত থেকে জীবন বাঁচাতে যে এক কোটি লোক ভারতে আশ্রয় নিয়েছিল তাদের মধ্যে অনেকের রোগব্যাধিতে মৃত্যু হয়েছে। এ সময়ে অনেক নারীর গর্ভপাত হয়েছে। মুক্ত দেশে ফিরে এসেও মৃত্যু ঘটেছে অনেকের। তবে আবারও বলছি, একাত্তরে যে জেনোসাইড সংঘটিত হয়েছে সেটা প্রমাণের জন্য সংখ্যা নিয়ে আটকে থাকার দরকার নেই। জেনোসাইডের জন্য কতজনের প্রাণ গেছে, সেটা বড় কথা নয়। সে সময়ে টার্গেটেড হত্যাকাণ্ড ছিল এবং এটাই যথেষ্ট।
এখন প্রশ্ন হচ্ছে ন্যায়বিচারের। আর্মেনীয়দের হত্যাকাণ্ডের বিচারের দাবি এখনও উঠছে। এ জন্য অভিযুক্ত হচ্ছে তুরস্ক। দক্ষিণ আফ্রিকার নোবেল পুরস্কার বিজয়ী ডেসমন্ড টুটু বলেছেন, জেনোসাইডের বিচার প্রতিশোধ গ্রহণের জন্য নয়। এ ধরনের অপরাধ, নৃশংসতা যেন আর সংঘটিত না হয় সেটা নিশ্চিত করাই উদ্দেশ্য। 
বাংলাদেশে একাত্তরে যতজনকেই মারা হোক না কেন, সেটা করা হয়েছে সম্পূর্ণ অন্যায়ভাবে। যাদের মারা হয়েছে তাদের কারও হাতে অস্ত্র ছিল না। বেশিরভাগ সক্রিয় রাজনৈতিক কর্মকাণ্ডেও ছিল না। যেভাবে তাদের মৃত্যু হয়েছে সেটা কোনোভাবেই যুদ্ধের আইনে পড়ে না। বাংলাদেশের তরুণ প্রজন্ম স্বাভাবিকভাবেই প্রশ্ন তুলেছে যে, যাদের কারণে এ হত্যাকাণ্ড বা জেনোসাইড, তাদের কেন চিহ্নিত করা ও শাস্তি দেওয়া হবে না। এ ধরনের অপরাধ ভবিষ্যতে যেন না ঘটে, সেটা নিশ্চিত করার উপায়ও এটাই। দুই ধরনের লোক অপরাধে যুক্ত ছিল। এক. পাকিস্তানি সশস্ত্র বাহিনীর সদস্য; দুই. তাদের বাঙালি সহযোগী। বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতার পর রাজনৈতিক কারণে রাষ্ট্র বিভিন্ন দেশের স্বীকৃতি অর্জন, পাকিস্তানে আটকেপড়া বাঙালিদের ফিরিয়ে আনা এবং এ অঞ্চলে শান্তি প্রতিষ্ঠা প্রভৃতি কারণে পাকিস্তানি সশস্ত্র বাহিনীর সদস্যদের বিচার থেকে অব্যাহতি দেওয়ার সিদ্ধান্ত নিয়েছে। কিন্তু তাদের এ দেশীয় সহযোগীদের সম্পর্কে এ কথা বলা চলে না। পাকিস্তানিদেরও বুঝতে হবে যে ওই হত্যাকাণ্ড ছিল সম্পূর্ণ অযৌক্তিক ও বেআইনি। কীভাবে দিনের পর দিন সাধারণ মানুষকে ঠাণ্ডা মাথায় খুন করা হয়েছে সেটা তাদের জানা প্রয়োজন। তাদের দেশেও এমন অপরাধ আর যেন সংঘটিত না হয়, সে বিষয়টিও গুরুত্বপূর্ণ। বাংলাদেশে সংঘটিত অপরাধকর্মে জড়িতদের সম্পর্কে সেখানের জনগণকে যথাযথভাবে অবহিত করার সময় এসেছে। যুদ্ধাপরাধ ও মানবতাবিরোধী অপরাধের বিচার তাদের এ সুযোগ এনে দিয়েছে।
মানবতাবিরোধী অপরাধের বিচারের জন্য গঠিত ট্রাইব্যুনাল তিনটি মামলায় রায় দিয়েছেন। আরও কয়েকটি রায় হবে। আপিলের নিষ্পত্তি করা হবে। শাহবাগের সমাবেশে নানা মত ও পথের লাখ লাখ মানুষ অংশ নিয়েছে। এ অভিজ্ঞতা থেকে স্পষ্ট যে, ১৯৭২ এবং ২০১৩ সাল এক নয়। এ প্রজন্মের তরুণরা চাইছে যে একাত্তরের অপরাধের জন্য পাকিস্তানি সেনাবাহিনীর এ দেশীয় সহযোগীদের বিচার হোক। তবে বিষয়টি যেন দলীয় রাজনীতির পর্যায়ে না পড়ে, সেটা তাদের প্রত্যাশা। এটাও মনে রাখা দরকার যে, ন্যায়বিচারের পাশাপাশি মানবাধিকারের বিষয়টিও গুরুত্বপূর্ণ। নির্বাচনী হিসাব-নিকাশ এবং দলীয় রাজনীতি যেন এর মধ্যে না আসে। ৫ ফেব্রুয়ারির পরবর্তী প্রথম সপ্তাহে তরুণ প্রজন্ম এ বার্তাই দিয়েছে। একাত্তরের ২৫ মার্চ ছিল জেনোসাইডের সূচনা দিন। এদিনে আশা থাকবে যে, ন্যায়বিচারের ইস্যুটি যেন রাজনীতির ঊধর্ে্ব থাকে। 
এটাও সবাইকে স্মরণ করিয়ে দিতে চাই যে, একাত্তরের ২৫ মার্চ না হলে কিন্তু ২৬ মার্চ হয় না। ২৫ মার্চ জেনোসাইড ঘটিয়েই কিন্তু পাকিস্তানি শাসকচক্র পাকিস্তানকে ভেঙে দেয়। আমরা বিচ্ছিন্ন হইনি, বরং ওরাই দেশকে ভেঙে দিয়েছে। স্বাধীনতা আনুষ্ঠানিকভাবে কখন কীভাবে ঘোষণা হলো, সে বিতর্ক অর্থহীন। আমাদের সরকার ও মুক্তিবাহিনীর কাজ ছিল দেশকে শত্রুমুক্ত করা এবং এতে পরিপূর্ণভাবে সফল হয়েছি।
শেষ কথা বলব, গণতন্ত্রের পথ ধরেই এসেছে বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা। এখন চাই গণতন্ত্রের অব্যাহত চর্চা এবং সমাজের সর্বস্তরে তাকে ছড়িয়ে দেওয়া।

ড. ইমতিয়াজ আহমেদ :রাজনৈতিক বিশ্লেষক এবং অধ্যাপক; আন্তর্জাতিক সম্পর্ক বিভাগ, ঢাকা বিশ্ববিদ্যালয়




__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] Documentary in English on mass killing & genocide by Bangladesh Govt.



Dear Brothers and Sisters.
Please watch this 8 minutes documentary video about ongoing genocide by Bangladesh government.
Please spread it round the world.



Look how foolish Awami leader in UK, how his rubbish talks to TV broadcaster!

The YouTube links on Bangladesh War Crimes Tribunal: Trial by Politics are below which you may wish to watch and forward on to your contacts.
 
 
 
 




From: udarakash08@yahoo.com
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 13:52:41 -0700
Subject: [Dahuk]: Documentary video in English on mass killing & genocide by Bangladesh Govt.

 

You may have never seen 1971, surely you have seen 2013!

Watch this just 8 mins documentary video and see how your beloved country is doing...........
Regards,
NK
Follow me on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/NayanKhan2

'Awami League' is not a name of a political party, it's a name of disease in Bangladesh.



__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH



"people have many professions. The same person often has many talents."

Yes, people could have many talents, but individual is usually known for one particular talent, usually his/her most prominent talent. People, in the ancient time, did not have any other way to categorize workforce.  Problem with caste-system started later, when such category became a birthright. After that, caste-ism started to show it's ugly head.

 

Yes, it will be better if we can wipe out the caste-ism a . One way is eliminating such categories from the society, which will take much longer span.  In the interim, we can diffuse the impact of caste-ism by bringing the concept to the original form. Let's say, a family consists of Brahmin, Shudra, and Khoitriya - why would they hate one another? That's the idea. I know many people who are not Brahmin by birth, but can recite Bhagabat Gita line-by-line without opening the book; why won't they be considered as Brahmins? That's my point.

 

Jiten Roy




--- On Sun, 3/24/13, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, March 24, 2013, 9:16 AM

 

Defending the caste system in any way is at best foolish and living in the negative umpteenth century. It is worse than an Islamic idiot branding their 6th century holy books as having the last words on any knowledge and wisdom.
 
A modern educated person should stop defining people in terms of the caste system. That would stop a major driver of hatred, division and exploitation that have been going on in our subcontinent for too long.
 
Obviously, people have many professions. The same person often has many talents. Depending on what one is doing at the time, the same person can be a scientist, a writer, a cook, a farmer, a soccer player, a guitar player, and so one. The world does not need a stupid Hindu system to define anyone.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
=============================
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:32 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH
 
"One's caste is still a birth right or obligation. A priest is still one who is a Brahmin by caste even though he may be a stupid and uneducated."

I don't buy it. A schoolteacher or a cultivator can't be a Khoitriya. A businessman can't be a Brahmin. Birth right for caste is an illegal practice. Just because people have accepted it - does not mean I should do it also. Popular support for something does not make it right. You may even find some scriptures to support your view, but that means nothing also; people write scriptures. You did not provide any logic either in your claim that caste is a birthright.
 
Jiten Roy



--- On Sat, 3/23/13, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, March 23, 2013, 9:14 PM

 
You are talking about exceptions or special cases. One's caste is still a birth right or obligation. A priest is still one who is a Brahmin by caste even though he may be a stupid and uneducated. In India it is still a serious problem and is working as a gravitational pull against all efforts for socio-economic upliftment.  One good thing is that in the eye of law all castes enjoy equal rights. Moreover, in many cases the Dalits enjoy special privileges. We have seen Dalit president, chief ministers, and ministers. It has caused some aberrations in the realm of Indian politics. One becomes chief minister with Dalit votes and yet betrays the voters the reason being that the super structure hides the fact that the caste hatred is still embedded in our hearts although many of us intellectually have got out of the curse of the caste system.
The bottom line is that the Indian caste system is not analogous with the so called blue collar-white collar classification of the working people. We still have a long long way to go before we can stop. 
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 23, 2013, at 6:15 PM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Most people just talk around the problem of caste system.  There will be no need of any new theory if we simply try to understand what this system really means. This system was introduced to represent different working-class people. Western societies use blue color and white color working-class people. The idea is the same as the caste system. The four castes clearly represented four categories of works. When someone's work category changes, automatically his/her caste will change as well. Caste is not a birthright.  Same family could have multiple castes. Caste has been taken as a birthright for exploitation. Lower caste people should reject the notion of birthright; Brahmin can come out of a lower caste family. I have seen priest from a lower caste family. I think we need proper education and messaging about this issue.  That's all.

Thanks.
 
 
Jiten Roy


--- On Fri, 3/22/13, kancha ilaiah <kanchailaiah@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

From: kancha ilaiah <kanchailaiah@yahoo.co.in>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, March 22, 2013, 1:49 AM

 
Caste, corruption and romanticism
KANCHA ILAIAH
 
The Dalit-Bahujan theory or Ambedkarism cannot negotiate with funny theories of sociologists like Ashis Nandy. The best way to counter them is to write a better theory
Utsa Patnaik, a noted economist said in a small note that she circulated "Ashis Nandy had earlier made approving remarks on the 1988 Deorala burning to death of a young widow in the name ofsati (terming it a courageous act in a piece in theIndian Express), and more recently has reportedly made a factually baseless, highly offensive comment on Dalits and corruption. Given the crudity of these positions one wonders how 'nuanced' and 'ironic' can an academic get. There is nothing here to surprise us, for Nandy has always projected a consistent intellectual position.
"His writings, starting from The Intimate Enemyclearly represent an Indianised version of Romanticism, the much-analysed trend of thinking which valorises pre-capitalist traditions, local cultures and subjectivities while critically opposing the rationalism and homogenizing values of industrial capitalism." This is a perceptive observation of Mr. Nandy's academic romanticism. Such romaticisation of caste and culture has deeper scholastic roots.
'High against low'
Mr. Nandy is not alone in positioning the cultural character of Indian society in a top down manner and romanticising the cultural ethos of 'high as against low.' This has been the cultural morale of the so-called mainstream sociological scholarship in India. The caste/class background of Indian sociologists, what they see and study in Indian society, is presented as normative and the victims of the social process are expected to affirm those theories.
This sociological methodology was invented by M.N. Srinivas who studied the Indian caste system from his own cultural standpoint and designated the process of perceived change as Sanskritisation. A systemic role was assigned to an ancient Indian language, which was already dead. Yet he turned that into a theoretical category. Its use was only in the Hindu ritual realm at that time and no Brahmin family was using that language in day-to-day life. That linguistic-cultural construction was deployed as positivist and modernist. He romanticised the so-called 'low castes imitating the high castes,' so much so that the whole academic discourse in India sought to be mesmerised; it was also projected as a creative utopia.
The Dalit-Bahujan life was essentially culturally inclusive as against the Brahminic exclusionism. Srinivas picked up some common food practices between Brahminic and Dalit-Bahujan (who ate vegetables alongside meat foods historically and discovered many vegetarian food items) and asserted that the lower castes were getting Sansrkitised. He discovered that Sanskritisation among the lower castes was deterministic and transformative. It was to suggest that no other forms of lower caste mobilisation were required. Though sociologists like A.R. Desai disagreed with this pseudo-transformation theory, they were ruthlessly marginalised.
Polygamy and divorce
Another noted sociologist, Andre Beteille, found Sanskritisation taking place at a systemic level on a continuous basis. He said: "Divorce, separation, polygamy etc., were common among the Dalits. The fact that they consider divorce bad is the impact of Sanskritization." What does he mean by saying polygamy was 'common' among Dalits? Does he mean every second Dalit man had/has more than one wife? What about Brahmin men? Not even one in thousand was/is polygamous? Was polygamy rare among Brahmins and Kshatriyas? Where did he get his statistics about 'Dalit polygamy' being common and Brahmin polygamy being uncommon or rare? One hopes that the census data would include caste and polygamy relationship among all castes and religions.
His assertion that "they [Dalits] consider divorce bad" because of Sanskritisation is believed to be normative. How would he theorise the increased divorce rates among the upper castes — particularly among Brahmins? Is there no opposite linguistic-cultural concept for that? Shall we call it Palisation, as Pali was the mass language when Sanskrit was the court language? Or if we say that the process of upper castes opting for increased divorce or meat eating should be theorised as Dalitisation, what would they say? Would they not ask: what is this concept called Dalitisation?
Yet another sociologist, Dipankar Gupta, studied the Indian caste system very seriously and told the United Nations Committee on Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) examining 'Discrimination based on descent' in 2007, that "Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Baniyas, Shudras and Dalits no more exist in India." Is this romanticisation or mesmerisation of Indian sociology?
Corruption not a commodity
Ashis Nandy, a noted social-psychologist, spread the theoretical net of corruption to all the Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and Other Backward Classes. He discovered that the 'most' corrupt in Indian society came from these social groups. Has he not followed in the footsteps of MNS' theory of "lower castes imitate the higher castes?" Does not such a statement romanticise corruption? And does not such location of 'corruption' among the poorest of poor endanger the whole social science discourse? Corruption is not a commodity that becomes accessible for every human being on the street. It operates, as the Sanskrit language operated among the bhoodevatas, among those who have money and power. Power among the upper castes of India is like the thread in a garland. It connects with the other quite coherently. This is not true of Dalit-Bahujan castes. A few here and there in real power (only Mayawati was in that category) structures do not and cannot connect to the most poverty ridden masses.
Several commentators, including Utsa Patnaik, pointed out that Mr. Nandy supported Sati, the theory of Mohan Bhagawat that Bharat is 'rape free' while 'India is rapist,' as it was influenced by western capitalism. It was like saying that 'feudal rape is pure and capitalist rape is impure.' Mr. Nandy is a Gandhian democrat. He imbibed Gandhism through Nehruvian ideology. For Gandhi, castes were necessary to maintain the balance of social system. For Nehru, corruption was the necessary greasing oil for the state engine to run. Mr. Nandy transforms this greasing oil theory into a theory of 'social equaliser.'
'Republican Utopia'
For his mode of Indian sociology, SC/ST/OBCs travelling ticketless in trains is equivalent to upper caste air travel with a stay in a five star hotel, without spending money from their personal account. This theory resembles the sociological theory of Andre Beteille that when Dalits eat vegetarian they get equalised with Brahmins. Mr. Nandy discovered a majestic 'Republican Utopia' in the Indian mode of corruption.
If "Sanskritisation" and "corruption" become part of the "Republican Utopia," that republican utopia would match neither the ancient republican dream of Plato nor the late medieval utopian dream of Thomas More. Caste is a concrete thing at hand as slavery and class were in Europe. There is no positive sense in the notion or practice of corruption. As death cannot equalise human life, corruption cannot equalise castes. There is no way that the Dalit-Bahujan theory or Ambedkarism could negotiate with this funny theory. Neither could democratic or Marxist theory.
Equaliser theory
Since the upper castes are already corrupt, an equaliser theory is invented in the very life of Dalit-Bahujan. As the Dalit-Bahujan have no theoretical resource to counter such theories, some rushed to the police station to stop this kind of theorisation. Mr. Nandy had an intellectual answer for that recourse. "I will sit in jail and write a bigger theory." He cites Gandhi and Nehru writing their theories in jail.
At this stage, the Dalit democratic movement cannot afford to send such theoreticians to jail and give more credence to their theories. Let it not be forgotten that there is no living Ambedkar among us to write better theory without ever going to jail. Dr. Ambedkar overtook Nehru in a recent survey with his unparalleled theory of 'Dalit democracy' as the equaliser. In due course, he will also overtake Gandhiji in greatness. The best way to put this kind of sociology in its place is to burn more midnight oil to write a better theory of Dalit sociological imagination — not of utopia.
(The author is Director, Centre for the Study of Social Exclusion and Inclusive Policy, Maulana Azad National Urdu University, Hyderabad)
 


__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___