Banner Advertiser

Sunday, August 16, 2015

Re: [mukto-mona] The savages!



We have gone through this many times before. A stubborn arrogant man like Chakrabrty would not subscribe to any reason or historical evidence. If he did, he would have read Bukhari, Ishaque and Tabari before contributing to any forum.

On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 10:40 PM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I see - you have learned about religion by reading writings of many great people. If you learn about religion by reading the writings of good people only, you will not know the reality on the ground, which explains your block-headed demeanor about religion. 

Mr. Chakraborty, these nonchalant religious followers are not the problem, as they are not creating the religious conflicts around the world. They cannot fix the problem, created by the radical followers of religion. So, your wife's and your friends' religiosities cannot fix the religious radicalism. Bringing them in the discussion is a cheap way to diminish the extent of religious radicalism, which is a part of the religion also.
 

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2015 11:58 PM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] The savages!

 
I can guess you have read the entire Koran word for word and between lines. I am nowhere near you in this respect. My perception about Islam has been shaped by the writings of authors like Ibrahim Khan, Yakub Ali Chowdhury, Nazrul Islam, Dr. Shahidullah, Gholam Mistafa, Barkatullah, Mir Mosharraf Hossain, and so on. Many bards like Lalon and Sufi poets also have important role in shaping my perception. During my school years I had to read a memoir by Dr. Suniti Chatterjee in which there is a dialog between the author and a very ordinary Muslim co-passenger of the ship. I have grown up with Muslims along with my fellow Hindus. I still have many Muslim friends. Many of them are very religious. Are they not true Muslims? They will claim they are. 

My wife is proud of being a Hindu although he does not follow many things that an orthodox Hindu follows. Is she not a true Hindu? By Manu's standard she is not. If a fundamentalist view of a religion is the true religion, then should we trash the other views and thereby brand them as false Hindus? Why would they tolerate it? We have to see how she interprets her religious teachings and how much she accepts and how much she remains silent about. 

The problem with religion is that it is embedded in our psyche so deeply that it would be almost an impossible proposition to separate it from our lives. The lifelong confirmed atheist Dr. Ahmed Sharif understood this reality quite well. That's why attempts to bury religions by the communists or the proponents of Lokayata (Carvak) philosophy turned out to be boomerang. The best way would be to enlighten people through modern education, not by demeaning his religion but allowing them complete freedom in practicing his own religion in a more and more universally appealing way. 

Sent from my iPhone



On Aug 15, 2015, at 8:01 PM, Abul Kasem abul88@hotmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Please tell us why these jihadists are not true Muslims.

 

From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 16:37:05 -0500
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] The savages!

 
Looks like only Mr. Abul Kasem and Abu-Bakr-Al-Baghdadi have fully understood the Islam preached by Muhammed. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 15, 2015, at 2:04 PM, Abul Kasem abul88@hotmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

He is not savage; he is a true Muslim.

He practices Islam as preached and practiced by Muhammad.




From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 20:39:55 -0400
Subject: [mukto-mona] The savages!

 







__._,_.___

Posted by: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] The savages!



The common denominator of this problem is none other than an extreme religious ideology that originates from the texts and it is spreading like a wild fire as we speak. You think this is just a nuisance? You do not see any problem with bloggers being hacked in daylight?
Every religion has this problem including Tamil Tigers? Not sure that Tigers were following Hindu scripture? It was not a religious war as far as I know. Tigers lost the mass support and eventually wiped out for a good reason. Do you see any Hindu group following the Tigers' paths of martyrdom?
 




On Sunday, August 16, 2015 8:52 PM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
I thought you don't overreact like Mr. Das. You also do. Looks like the Punjab Home Minister was killed by a suicide bomber belonging to Lashkar-e-Taiba. Please do not over stretch your imagination. 

Suicide bombing does not have to be confined to Islamic militants only. Tamil guerillas were used to resort to this weapon. Indian PM was a victim of suicide bombing. The Japanese Air Force used it to weaken the allied forces. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 16, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
These must be damn dirty Jews maligning a good religion? 
Punjab home minister just perished too today during a jirga meeting. Blame Hindus? Look, Chakrabarty is our true authority in the religious business and he may have some better spins for your pointed question. Stay tuned! 
 




On Saturday, August 15, 2015 10:13 PM, "Abul Kasem abul88@hotmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Please tell us why these jihadists are not true Muslims.

 

From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 16:37:05 -0500
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] The savages!

 
Looks like only Mr. Abul Kasem and Abu-Bakr-Al-Baghdadi have fully understood the Islam preached by Muhammed. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 15, 2015, at 2:04 PM, Abul Kasem abul88@hotmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

He is not savage; he is a true Muslim.

He practices Islam as preached and practiced by Muhammad.




From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 20:39:55 -0400
Subject: [mukto-mona] The savages!

 








__._,_.___

Posted by: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] The savages!



Thanks. O. K, but what do we all need to do? You did not answer that. It should be some thing like this: educate them with scientific knowledge, enlighten them, reform education system, etc. Do you agree? Since banning religions and closing places of worship are not the options, what else can you do? Obviously the law enforcement agencies will handle all such cases in their own way. But common people can only resort to political and cultural movements. And these are already going on although they have not achieved desired goals because of many conflicting political games. 
Let me know if you have some innovative ideas. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 16, 2015, at 8:55 PM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Sure, here is my response.

Mr. Chakraborty, you are not understanding what you are saying, as usual. I am having a hard time to get this message across you.
In my comments below - I never suggested anything like banning any religion or religious books or prophets or anything, yet you are feeding that line of talk as if I have suggested something like that. Shame on you!
I can see, you did not understand a thing I said. Let me try again. What I said is that - there are good and bad aspects in a religious scripture, and you should have the intellect to recognize that. I do not expect it from a blind-faith follower, but you should.  Unfortunately, you don't, because - whenever someone points to the bad aspects in a religious scripture, you jump into the conversation to show some good aspects to neutralize the dialogue. What you are doing in essence is - you are brushing off the bad aspects of the scripture, without realizing it. Can I expect that you will understand that point now on?  


 

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2015 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] The savages!

 
Then what is your solution? Ban all religious books, prophets, and religions? Please respond. 

Sent from my iPhone



On Aug 16, 2015, at 11:40 AM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
I see - you have learned about religion by reading writings of many great people. If you learn about religion by reading the writings of good people only, you will not know the reality on the ground, which explains your block-headed demeanor about religion. 

Mr. Chakraborty, these nonchalant religious followers are not the problem, as they are not creating the religious conflicts around the world. They cannot fix the problem, created by the radical followers of religion. So, your wife's and your friends' religiosities cannot fix the religious radicalism. Bringing them in the discussion is a cheap way to diminish the extent of religious radicalism, which is a part of the religion also.
 

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2015 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] The savages!

 
I can guess you have read the entire Koran word for word and between lines. I am nowhere near you in this respect. My perception about Islam has been shaped by the writings of authors like Ibrahim Khan, Yakub Ali Chowdhury, Nazrul Islam, Dr. Shahidullah, Gholam Mistafa, Barkatullah, Mir Mosharraf Hossain, and so on. Many bards like Lalon and Sufi poets also have important role in shaping my perception. During my school years I had to read a memoir by Dr. Suniti Chatterjee in which there is a dialog between the author and a very ordinary Muslim co-passenger of the ship. I have grown up with Muslims along with my fellow Hindus. I still have many Muslim friends. Many of them are very religious. Are they not true Muslims? They will claim they are. 

My wife is proud of being a Hindu although he does not follow many things that an orthodox Hindu follows. Is she not a true Hindu? By Manu's standard she is not. If a fundamentalist view of a religion is the true religion, then should we trash the other views and thereby brand them as false Hindus? Why would they tolerate it? We have to see how she interprets her religious teachings and how much she accepts and how much she remains silent about. 

The problem with religion is that it is embedded in our psyche so deeply that it would be almost an impossible proposition to separate it from our lives. The lifelong confirmed atheist Dr. Ahmed Sharif understood this reality quite well. That's why attempts to bury religions by the communists or the proponents of Lokayata (Carvak) philosophy turned out to be boomerang. The best way would be to enlighten people through modern education, not by demeaning his religion but allowing them complete freedom in practicing his own religion in a more and more universally appealing way. 

Sent from my iPhone



On Aug 15, 2015, at 8:01 PM, Abul Kasem abul88@hotmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Please tell us why these jihadists are not true Muslims.

 

From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 16:37:05 -0500
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] The savages!

 
Looks like only Mr. Abul Kasem and Abu-Bakr-Al-Baghdadi have fully understood the Islam preached by Muhammed. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 15, 2015, at 2:04 PM, Abul Kasem abul88@hotmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

He is not savage; he is a true Muslim.

He practices Islam as preached and practiced by Muhammad.




From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 20:39:55 -0400
Subject: [mukto-mona] The savages!

 








__._,_.___

Posted by: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] The savages!



Well Mr. Chakrabarty, if you looked at them with some basic reasoning, you would have seen that the three groups of suicide bombers that you have mentioned are not comparable. The Islamic militants are religious zombies, killing themselves for their God. Neither the Tamils nor the Japanese were killing themselves for their God, they were doing it for what they perceived as their human dignity, honor and supremacy; the last adjective applied to the Japanese but not to the Tamils. In fact, in some of the Eastern cultures, self-immolation is considered as an honorable form of protest against unbearable sufferings of fellow humans. There the idea is to jolt the conscience of the oppressor without killing anyone else but oneself. That kind of honorable sacrifice could not be compared with the barbaric acts of killing innocent people along with oneself. (Of course, for example, the ordinary Shia who worships at his mosque is innocent to me, but not to the Sunni suicide bomber who thinks that the Shias are not true Muslims and that Allah wants them killed.)
 
SuBain

===============================================



On Sunday, August 16, 2015 11:07 AM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
I thought you don't overreact like Mr. Das. You also do. Looks like the Punjab Home Minister was killed by a suicide bomber belonging to Lashkar-e-Taiba. Please do not over stretch your imagination. 

Suicide bombing does not have to be confined to Islamic militants only. Tamil guerillas were used to resort to this weapon. Indian PM was a victim of suicide bombing. The Japanese Air Force used it to weaken the allied forces. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 16, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
These must be damn dirty Jews maligning a good religion? 
Punjab home minister just perished too today during a jirga meeting. Blame Hindus? Look, Chakrabarty is our true authority in the religious business and he may have some better spins for your pointed question. Stay tuned! 
 




On Saturday, August 15, 2015 10:13 PM, "Abul Kasem abul88@hotmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Please tell us why these jihadists are not true Muslims.

 

From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 16:37:05 -0500
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] The savages!

 
Looks like only Mr. Abul Kasem and Abu-Bakr-Al-Baghdadi have fully understood the Islam preached by Muhammed. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 15, 2015, at 2:04 PM, Abul Kasem abul88@hotmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

He is not savage; he is a true Muslim.

He practices Islam as preached and practiced by Muhammad.




From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 20:39:55 -0400
Subject: [mukto-mona] The savages!

 








__._,_.___

Posted by: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___