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Sunday, March 15, 2015

Re: [mukto-mona] To the Soul of Avijit Roy, our dearest brother



If you try to raise doubt in the icons I have rested my faith on, I would lose my head and follow medieval duty to kill you for which I would be rewarded with even more luscious women in the afterlife. I would thank you afterwards for affording me with such an opportunity. Pipe dream!

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 16, 2015, at 3:59 AM, Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

There you go again! Avijit murder is totally justified because his pen hurts your religious feelings? Are you so inferior with your pen that you can't even respond in kind? You need to kill people to silence them? Do you think that is a great strategy to save your faith from future critic? Is that so shallow?
This is rather a comical argument for all Muktomonas. 




On Sunday, March 15, 2015 10:12 AM, "Mohammad Mushrafi mushrafi@hotmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 

 

From: mushrafi@hotmail.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] To the Soul of Avijit Roy, our dearest brother
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 09:02:40 +0000


D/sister Kamrun,

I appreciate your love for peace and humanity before any politics, religious fanaticism or butchery. When I totally condemn such heinous acts at the same tone I express my disappointment to a number of people are attacking other people's faith and inflaming violence, I would say.  As example the Charlie Abdoo Peris magazine keeps on propagating an agenda and relentlessly ridicule the faith of Islam without a depth or demonstrated understanding of it. Surprisingly this magazine never peruse such ill-conceived, illiterate evils against Krishna, Moses or Jesus, though there were/are fanatics in every faith and there are historical wrong doings in all faiths. These all in the name of so called "Freedom of speech" by arrogantly ignoring the fact that freedom is essentially attached with the responsibilities and boundaries.
 
"The pen is more powerful that machetes ", by believing this mantra, the pen holders need to be respectful to all faiths, those which many people held very close to their hearts. No intelligent or noble person is expected to hurt other people's heart-held feelings of faith or position of opinion. Where a free thinker has a right to speak their mind at the same time the faith holders have equal right to speak their mind.  By attacking or ridiculing some one's faith by pen is far more hurtful then attacking by knives indeed.

I therefore believe that "Agree to disagree" is a key to reach out to the peoples of different opinion. The pen-powered people are in a higher power position to manage this difference of opinion situation. The knowledge or wisdom cannot be forced on to someone at all. By ridiculing or hurting others, no one should expect peace, love and to bring people to their own opinion camp. A believe that "my thinking/ideas are absolute right and all others are wrong and need to be attacked" is totally foolish. These kind of grandiose and arrogant attitude will make the world unsafe, and chaotic for sure.

Just imagine if all quarters tries to attack each other's opinion and demands s/he is only right then what would be the consequences?

 

 

 

 

CC: farid300@gmail.com
From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 23:08:36 -0800
Subject: [mukto-mona] To the Soul of Avijit Roy, our dearest brother

 


Dear Avijit da, I have lost word to write to you. You have donated your dead-body for the welfare of Bangladeshi medical science, but what we Bangladeshis have given you in return, I was asking to myself. From the drift of conscience, I am here to confess that I am heavily indebted to your mukto-mona website that encouraged me greatly to be a poet. Mindless killers should know, Allah is not so stupid that He has built heavens of breathtaking beauty for those, whose hands are tarnished with the blood of his own brothers. Human species declaring war against own species happily imagine that they would bring their so-called peace on earth by extermination of those, who are in their views sinners, not worthy of mercy. But they know not that bloodshed can never bring peace, rather leave the world as a poor desolate planet without a little sign of human life.

Dr. Kamrun Nahar
Bangladesh
alorkona@yahoo.com






__._,_.___

Posted by: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] FW: PRESS RELEASE: Human Rights Center for Bangladesh (HRCB) condemns the murder of Dr. Avijit Roy, writer, free-thinker and founder of "Mukto-Mona".



From: Human Rights Center for Bangladesh [mailto:human.rights@hrcbmdfw.org]
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2015 10:17 PM
To: 'DhakaACS@state.gov'
Cc: human.rights@hrcbmdfw.org
Subject: PRESS RELEASE: Human Rights Center for Bangladesh (HRCB) condemns the murder of Dr. Avijit Roy, writer, free-thinker and founder of “Mukto-Mona”.

 

Human Rights Center for Bangladesh(HRCB)

https://www.facebook.com/HRCBangladesh

http://www.hrcb.org/

Human.Rights@hrcbmdfw.org

 

PRESS RELEASE

For Immediate Release

March 13, 2015

 

Human Rights Center for Bangladesh (HRCB) condemns the murder of Dr. Avijit Roy, writer, free-thinker and founder of “Mukto-Mona”.

Dr. Avijit Roy, a bio-engineer and a naturalized US citizen, writer, free-thinker and an advocate of secularism, was hacked to death near TSC intersection at Dhaka University area by machete-wielding assailants as he along with his wife, Rafida Ahmed Bonya, was returning from Amar Ekushey Book Fair on Feb 26, 2015 evening minutes after they came out of the book fair.

Islamic religious radicals have been threatening Avijit for his writings.

“Thursday’s attack bore a striking similarity to the one on legendary writer Humayun Azad in February 2004. Azad was also returning home from the Ekushey Book Fair, when he was hacked with machetes by radical militants. He later died in Germany while undergoing treatment. Militants also hacked blogger Ahmed Rajib Haider to death in a similar attack near his home in Dhaka’s Mirpur in February 2013.” bdnews24.com.

"Free thinking in Bangladesh has become a great danger, all the free thinkers are at great risk," writer-journalist Shahriar Kabir said.

HRCB calls on the government of Bangladesh to promptly and fully investigate this brutal killing and to bring the perpetrators to justice. Bangladesh is a signatory to United Nations Human Rights and the government must take the responsibility to hunt down the criminals and give them exemplary punishments. The state has the obligation to stop the vicious culture of impunity for attacks and premeditated murders of bloggers.

HRCB calls on Marcia Stephens Bloom Bernicat, Ambassador, United States Embassy, Dhaka, Bangladesh, to take up the cause of justice in this brutal killing, and exert influence to demand a thorough investigation and a relentless pursuit to bring the perpetrators to justice, with the highest echelons of the Bangladesh Government.

HRCB has been monitoring the actions taken by the government of Bangladesh to bring perpetrator to justice and we will continue to do so until perpetrators are given exemplary punishments.

Human Rights Center for Bangladesh (HRCB), formerly known as Human Rights Congress for Bangladesh Minorities DFW (HRCBM-DFW), is a human rights organization working to uphold the right to life, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, security, justice, property ownership and equal rights for all citizen of Bangladesh.

 



__._,_.___

Posted by: "Prodip K Saha" <prodip.kumar@verizon.net>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] PRESS RELEASE: Human Rights Center for Bangladesh (HRCB) condemns the murder of Dr. Avijit Roy, writer, free-thinker and founder of "Mukto-Mona".



Human Rights Center for Bangladesh(HRCB)

https://www.facebook.com/HRCBangladesh

http://www.hrcb.org/

Human.Rights@hrcbmdfw.org

 

PRESS RELEASE

For Immediate Release

March 13, 2015

 

Human Rights Center for Bangladesh (HRCB) condemns the murder of Dr. Avijit Roy, writer, free-thinker and founder of “Mukto-Mona”.

Dr. Avijit Roy, a bio-engineer and a naturalized US citizen, writer, free-thinker and an advocate of secularism, was hacked to death near TSC intersection at Dhaka University area by machete-wielding assailants as he along with his wife, Rafida Ahmed Bonya, was returning from Amar Ekushey Book Fair on Feb 26, 2015 evening minutes after they came out of the book fair.

Islamic religious radicals have been threatening Avijit for his writings.

“Thursday’s attack bore a striking similarity to the one on legendary writer Humayun Azad in February 2004. Azad was also returning home from the Ekushey Book Fair, when he was hacked with machetes by radical militants. He later died in Germany while undergoing treatment. Militants also hacked blogger Ahmed Rajib Haider to death in a similar attack near his home in Dhaka’s Mirpur in February 2013.” bdnews24.com.

"Free thinking in Bangladesh has become a great danger, all the free thinkers are at great risk," writer-journalist Shahriar Kabir said.

HRCB calls on the government of Bangladesh to promptly and fully investigate this brutal killing and to bring the perpetrators to justice. Bangladesh is a signatory to United Nations Human Rights and the government must take the responsibility to hunt down the criminals and give them exemplary punishments. The state has the obligation to stop the vicious culture of impunity for attacks and premeditated murders of bloggers.

HRCB calls on Marcia Stephens Bloom Bernicat, Ambassador, United States Embassy, Dhaka, Bangladesh, to take up the cause of justice in this brutal killing, and exert influence to demand a thorough investigation and a relentless pursuit to bring the perpetrators to justice, with the highest echelons of the Bangladesh Government.

HRCB has been monitoring the actions taken by the government of Bangladesh to bring perpetrator to justice and we will continue to do so until perpetrators are given exemplary punishments.

Human Rights Center for Bangladesh (HRCB), formerly known as Human Rights Congress for Bangladesh Minorities DFW (HRCBM-DFW), is a human rights organization working to uphold the right to life, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, security, justice, property ownership and equal rights for all citizen of Bangladesh.

 



__._,_.___

Posted by: "Human Rights Center for Bangladesh" <human.rights@hrcbmdfw.org>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

RE: [mukto-mona] To the Soul of Avijit Roy, our dearest brother



Mr. Deedar,
 
I respect your opinion of difference (as Voltaire said I will defend your opinion if put forward with civility) and happily agree to disagree. But I also respectfully condemn your intolerance of other's opinion, misinterpreting it and choice of language you are using.  You could be anything rather then a free and open soul and misfit in the name of the forum "Muktomona".
 
The poison filed mind is not a free-thinkers mind. By demonstrating your intolerance you have proven that you are one of those who does not care other's feeling except themselves.

 

CC: mushrafi@hotmail.com; alorkona@yahoo.com
From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2015 21:59:43 +0000
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] To the Soul of Avijit Roy, our dearest brother

 
There you go again! Avijit murder is totally justified because his pen hurts your religious feelings? Are you so inferior with your pen that you can't even respond in kind? You need to kill people to silence them? Do you think that is a great strategy to save your faith from future critic? Is that so shallow?
This is rather a comical argument for all Muktomonas. 




On Sunday, March 15, 2015 10:12 AM, "Mohammad Mushrafi mushrafi@hotmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 

 

From: mushrafi@hotmail.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] To the Soul of Avijit Roy, our dearest brother
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 09:02:40 +0000


D/sister Kamrun,

I appreciate your love for peace and humanity before any politics, religious fanaticism or butchery. When I totally condemn such heinous acts at the same tone I express my disappointment to a number of people are attacking other people's faith and inflaming violence, I would say.  As example the Charlie Abdoo Peris magazine keeps on propagating an agenda and relentlessly ridicule the faith of Islam without a depth or demonstrated understanding of it. Surprisingly this magazine never peruse such ill-conceived, illiterate evils against Krishna, Moses or Jesus, though there were/are fanatics in every faith and there are historical wrong doings in all faiths. These all in the name of so called "Freedom of speech" by arrogantly ignoring the fact that freedom is essentially attached with the responsibilities and boundaries.
 
"The pen is more powerful that machetes ", by believing this mantra, the pen holders need to be respectful to all faiths, those which many people held very close to their hearts. No intelligent or noble person is expected to hurt other people's heart-held feelings of faith or position of opinion. Where a free thinker has a right to speak their mind at the same time the faith holders have equal right to speak their mind.  By attacking or ridiculing some one's faith by pen is far more hurtful then attacking by knives indeed.

I therefore believe that "Agree to disagree" is a key to reach out to the peoples of different opinion. The pen-powered people are in a higher power position to manage this difference of opinion situation. The knowledge or wisdom cannot be forced on to someone at all. By ridiculing or hurting others, no one should expect peace, love and to bring people to their own opinion camp. A believe that "my thinking/ideas are absolute right and all others are wrong and need to be attacked" is totally foolish. These kind of grandiose and arrogant attitude will make the world unsafe, and chaotic for sure.

Just imagine if all quarters tries to attack each other's opinion and demands s/he is only right then what would be the consequences?

 

 

 

 

CC: farid300@gmail.com
From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 23:08:36 -0800
Subject: [mukto-mona] To the Soul of Avijit Roy, our dearest brother

 


Dear Avijit da, I have lost word to write to you. You have donated your dead-body for the welfare of Bangladeshi medical science, but what we Bangladeshis have given you in return, I was asking to myself. From the drift of conscience, I am here to confess that I am heavily indebted to your mukto-mona website that encouraged me greatly to be a poet. Mindless killers should know, Allah is not so stupid that He has built heavens of breathtaking beauty for those, whose hands are tarnished with the blood of his own brothers. Human species declaring war against own species happily imagine that they would bring their so-called peace on earth by extermination of those, who are in their views sinners, not worthy of mercy. But they know not that bloodshed can never bring peace, rather leave the world as a poor desolate planet without a little sign of human life.

Dr. Kamrun Nahar
Bangladesh
alorkona@yahoo.com







__._,_.___

Posted by: Mohammad Mushrafi <mushrafi@hotmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] To the Soul of Avijit Roy, our dearest brother



There you go again! Avijit murder is totally justified because his pen hurts your religious feelings? Are you so inferior with your pen that you can't even respond in kind? You need to kill people to silence them? Do you think that is a great strategy to save your faith from future critic? Is that so shallow?
This is rather a comical argument for all Muktomonas. 




On Sunday, March 15, 2015 10:12 AM, "Mohammad Mushrafi mushrafi@hotmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 

 

From: mushrafi@hotmail.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] To the Soul of Avijit Roy, our dearest brother
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 09:02:40 +0000


D/sister Kamrun,

I appreciate your love for peace and humanity before any politics, religious fanaticism or butchery. When I totally condemn such heinous acts at the same tone I express my disappointment to a number of people are attacking other people's faith and inflaming violence, I would say.  As example the Charlie Abdoo Peris magazine keeps on propagating an agenda and relentlessly ridicule the faith of Islam without a depth or demonstrated understanding of it. Surprisingly this magazine never peruse such ill-conceived, illiterate evils against Krishna, Moses or Jesus, though there were/are fanatics in every faith and there are historical wrong doings in all faiths. These all in the name of so called "Freedom of speech" by arrogantly ignoring the fact that freedom is essentially attached with the responsibilities and boundaries.
 
"The pen is more powerful that machetes ", by believing this mantra, the pen holders need to be respectful to all faiths, those which many people held very close to their hearts. No intelligent or noble person is expected to hurt other people's heart-held feelings of faith or position of opinion. Where a free thinker has a right to speak their mind at the same time the faith holders have equal right to speak their mind.  By attacking or ridiculing some one's faith by pen is far more hurtful then attacking by knives indeed.

I therefore believe that "Agree to disagree" is a key to reach out to the peoples of different opinion. The pen-powered people are in a higher power position to manage this difference of opinion situation. The knowledge or wisdom cannot be forced on to someone at all. By ridiculing or hurting others, no one should expect peace, love and to bring people to their own opinion camp. A believe that "my thinking/ideas are absolute right and all others are wrong and need to be attacked" is totally foolish. These kind of grandiose and arrogant attitude will make the world unsafe, and chaotic for sure.

Just imagine if all quarters tries to attack each other's opinion and demands s/he is only right then what would be the consequences?

 

 

 

 

CC: farid300@gmail.com
From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 23:08:36 -0800
Subject: [mukto-mona] To the Soul of Avijit Roy, our dearest brother

 


Dear Avijit da, I have lost word to write to you. You have donated your dead-body for the welfare of Bangladeshi medical science, but what we Bangladeshis have given you in return, I was asking to myself. From the drift of conscience, I am here to confess that I am heavily indebted to your mukto-mona website that encouraged me greatly to be a poet. Mindless killers should know, Allah is not so stupid that He has built heavens of breathtaking beauty for those, whose hands are tarnished with the blood of his own brothers. Human species declaring war against own species happily imagine that they would bring their so-called peace on earth by extermination of those, who are in their views sinners, not worthy of mercy. But they know not that bloodshed can never bring peace, rather leave the world as a poor desolate planet without a little sign of human life.

Dr. Kamrun Nahar
Bangladesh
alorkona@yahoo.com






__._,_.___

Posted by: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Re: কী করে একটি হত্যাকাণ্ড বিভৎস মজা হয়ে ওঠে!!!!!



Follow the words of Lord Krishna, "Among the generals, I am Skanda and among the seers, I am Kapila". Skanda is Sikander, alias Alexander the Great, and Kapila might be another name of Lord Buddha and vice versa. So in what era is the Kurukshetra war? The episode is pure fiction. Skanda is also Kartikeya, warrior son of Shiva. Obviously, Darius II is Tarakasura. Northern India was colonized by the Persia. Hatred to them crystallized into Hinduism. According to Nirad Chaudhury, no scripture of Hinduism was formed prior to sixth century A. D.

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 15, 2015, at 9:34 PM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I don't have deep knowledge of scripture, but, as I understand, there is no quote 'Bhagaban-Ubacha' in the Upanishad, from which Gita was extracted, meaning such quote was added in the transcript of Gita. 
Also, "Sarbadharmam parityajya mamekam saranam braja" could only refer to the invitation to follow his (Krishna's) path only, as there were/are various paths in Hinduism. So, I think, "Sarbodharmam" can only refer those paths, not religions (Buddhism, Christianity, Isman, etc.), as we know today; none of these religions existed at the time. 

Am I wrong, Dr. Das?
Jiten Roy

 

From: "Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2015 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: কী করে একটি হত্যাকাণ্ড বিভৎস মজা হয়ে ওঠে!!!!!

 
In Gita, verses begin with Bhagawan ubacha, which in English is God said! From ground level analysis, parlance of deities are always ridiculous. God promised the Jews a land about hundred times in thousand years and hardly kept it. Even Abraham was fed up with God so much that he went to Egypt in search of a living without consulting God.

There is a theory that Gita was written in the Abbasid court in Baghdad. The despair of Arjun is indeed comparable with that of Aeneas as portrayed by Virgil. Besides, "Sarbadharmam parityajya mamekam saranam braja" is purely Islamic.

Muslims had been running away from Islam since it's inception. Look at the conflict among different sects and find out how disunited they are.



On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Comparing Gita with Quran is simply not right. Gita is not book of God's words while Muslims believe every word in Quran comes from God itself. So a true Hindu believer might not follow Gita literally while Muslims will have to do that as they had been ordered by God's messenger? 

I bet this rigid position comes from the insecurity as Islam being the youngest of all religions. If it ever accommodates some flexibility, people might run for the exit doors with their heads intact. Look at Sufis and Ahmedias, who are being castigated as non-Muslims.

Now, if Islam is also a political party ( according to Prof. Das), then it needs to be disclosed to the countries where Muslims are fleeing from pure Islamic countries. That would be a real threat to any political system. If that party wins a democratic election in West or any infidel country, we will be seeing more Iran(s) when we have gotten used to our imperfect Jeffersonian style democracies. Can democracies fight these monsters?
 






On Friday, March 13, 2015 12:09 PM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
"Fundamentalism uses literal meanings."

When fundamentalists use literal meaning of the text of a scripture, that they believe to be the absolute truth, you cannot blame them for doing so.

You cannot re-interpret literal texts, when they tell the truth. Any attempt of re-interpretation will only lead to distortion of the truth. Re-interpretations are needed as fancy wraps to make something acceptable or compatible to the consumer.
In my view, ancient Hindu scriptures are like fictional novels of that time. They provide glimpses of the society in those days. Even though some of the stories may have some existence, no one should treat them as 100% absolute truth. Most important aspect of those texts is the philosophical theme behind those stories, which may have use for generations to come.
Gita is based on imaginary story of family feuds over a game of chase. It's a fictional story, because it's implausible to justify killing an entire generation over such silly feuds. Now, if someone claims these texts as absolute, there is no room for re-interpretation. Any attempt of re-interpret an absolute fact will be a plagiarism. As long as we agree on this fact, we can resort to re-interpretations of those texts. 

Unfortunately, one cannot claim absolute nature of the text, and, at the same time, look for re-interpretation of those text. But, one can judge those absolute texts with proper context without resorting to re-interpretations.
Jiten Roy

 

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: কী করে একটি হত্যাকাণ্ড বিভৎস মজা হয়ে ওঠে!!!!!

 
Fundamentalism uses literal meanings. This is not desirable. Think about the sacred books like the Gita, the Chandi, or the Manusmriti. If you do not reinterpret the messages in the Gita or the Chandi, you are a fundamentalist. The Gita describes how and why the Pandavas should kill their cousin brothers Kaurabs. Scholars go beyond the superficial episode taken from the Mahsbharata and go into the deeper philosophical meanings. The Chandi when read superficially sounds like a manual for killing. But even those who understand the Sanskrit meaning of the text do not take it superficially. Finally, most of the edicts in Manu are outdated and do not fit into the modern world. Even reinterpretation will not help when it comes to treating women and Shudras as subhumans. 

I have given examples from Hindu religion. The argument should apply to all religions. 

Sent from my iPhone



On Mar 12, 2015, at 7:32 PM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
"If we do not choose and pick, we will behave like fanatics."

Exactly, only fanatics follow religion strictly, meaning others are not following religion strictly. So, when you hear that fanatics are not following religion correctly - what do you say to that?
If you say, no-fanatics are following religion correctly, you are saying that - it's OK to pick and choose God's tenets. You can't have both ways. You either follow your God's tenets or don't; there is no pick and choose for God's tenets, if you really believe in that. It does not change based on what people do or not.   
Jiten Roy

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: কী করে একটি হত্যাকাণ্ড বিভৎস মজা হয়ে ওঠে!!!!!

 
Thanks. Yes, most of the Muslims choose and pick. Actually we all do. Is it proper to choose and pick from what has been revealed? For example, is it improper not to follow every thing in our holy scriptures? If we do not choose and pick, we will behave like fanatics. If we do not want to reinterpret, we will be behaving like fundamentalists. If we see only the negativities, we will be behaving like communalists. One Christian evangelist in a talk show was criticizing worship of Kali, which I could not endorse. Religious practice today can be very different from the same a few centuries ago. It is evolving every day to make it more and more acceptable to all sections of the Hindu community. If a devotee is can see 'Chinmoy' inside the 'Mrinmoy', I don't have any problem. By saying that all this is bogus will antagonize the believers. Therefore, we have to ensure that in the name of religion, no one is being exploited. I think this was one of the fights Avijit had to fight. 

Sent from my iPhone



On Mar 12, 2015, at 12:36 PM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Islam embedded politics in the religion since the beginning of its inception. Hardcore followers believe Islam provides the complete code of life, and they are struggling to implement the Islamic codes of life of the 6th century. That's where the conflict with the modernity comes from.
As a result, most Muslims do not subscribe to the political codes of Islam, meaning they pick and choose codes of Islam. The million dollar question is – is it kosher to pick and choose the words of Allah?
Jiten Roy

 

From: "Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: কী করে একটি হত্যাকাণ্ড বিভৎস মজা হয়ে ওঠে!!!!!

 
I am actually sick of this nonsense term, 'political Islam'. Islam is Islam, and what the barbarians have been doing is following Islam. The attempts to sanitize Islam by coining the term 'political Islam' are naïve, dishonest and irresponsible.
 
If you do not wish to criticize Islam, that is fine. In fact, I have never quoted from any Islamic book for criticizing any instruction to its followers. What I advocate is that humans should use their human brain and judge what instructions they should follow and what instructions they should disregard/discard. Thus, I demand civilized behavior from people, never mid what the religions say.
 
So, people are to be blamed/corrected/punished for any injustice/crime they commit, irrespective of what religion/philosophy are behind the committed injustice/crime.
 
If you want to talk about Islam, be honest, or do not talk at all. No nonsense talk of 'political Islam', please.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
===================================


On Thursday, March 12, 2015 8:26 AM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Thanks for your humbleness. 

My understanding is that all the brutal attacks carried out by Islamic militants have deep roots in political Islam. They are not the acts committed by individual fanatic elements. Political Islam is not a recent phenomenon. You will find them throughout the Islamic history. The single objective of political Islam is to acquire political power. In the Indian subcontinent, I believe, the birth to the political Islam was given by Maududi. A word of caution is in order here. We must not confuse political Islam with Muslim nationalism or Muslim renaissance. 
Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 10, 2015, at 7:33 PM, Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Doc or no doc does not really matter. When I see people putting unwarranted titles right in front of their names, I sense some insecurity with those individuals. I should not generalize but I see that with many Bangladeshi professionals. Do they really need those doc, engineer, major and captain titles for the critical discussions? Probably not! I do not believe in formal degrees and yet, I had to get some for a decent livelihood. But they are totally useless on the streets and in discussion forums as I have seen so far.

"Religious militancy was not there. That's why I believe that it is all political." S. Chakrabarty

I would like to agree with your belief but I can't. If I do, then, I can't explain the recent Charlie Hebdo massacre. Was it carried out for political reasons or religious reasons? I believe, it is for the later? Did people kill Abhijit for political reasons? I think not. Abhijit was simply making holes in their religious business. So, he had to be silenced. 

Do you see the problem?
 



On Monday, March 9, 2015 9:09 PM, "subimal chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
1. First thing first: I don't have a Ph.D. degree which I told the forum a couple of times before, although I was pretty close to getting one. My advisor was happy with my dissertation and was eager to see me to defend it. Then---, I never got the chance to defend it.
2. I have said that the so called viral infection does not "always" mean human rights violation. The Hindus are celebrating "Holi" (festival of colors) throughout the world. Muslims celebrate Eid. These have cultural values.
3. I was born in a villege. I was raised in a small town. I had the opportunity to see both the Hindu and Muslim societies pretty closely. Saree, dhoti, tilki, ghomta, hijab, borkha, beard, tupi---I have seen them a lot. People around me were and are God fearing, conservative, and orthodox. Religious militancy was not there. That's why I believe that it is all political. Jamaat and RSS are good examples of the proponents of such politics. 



On Monday, March 9, 2015 2:38 PM, ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com> wrote:


Thank you, Dr Chakrabarty, for raising some of the very intractable questions. I will enlist your questions first and then try to answer them. You said:
(1) Although Indian subcontinent people always embraced religion, how come this faith virus has now become so infectious?
(2) Does religion violate Human Rights? You answered yourself by saying, definitely not.
(3) Does the use of hijab, burqa and niqab give rise to militancy? You commented that Islamic militancy is the product of politics.

It is true religions were always there in the subcontinent or, for that matter, all over the world for centuries. But what has changed during the last few decades is the rise of Islamic fundamentalism, in the form of Wahhabism (aided and abetted by Saudi Arabia). This Wahhabism had infiltrated into Bangladesh since early 1980s in various guises - the number of madrassas had gone up from no more than a few dozens during the Pakistan time (1970) to well over 19,000 in 2012 (The Commonwealth Institute Report). These madrassas have now over 10 million attendees and are churning out more than 1.5 million virtually illiterate, only Quran-reciting block headed morons every year. When poor illiterate parents in the villages are given the opportunity to send their children to madrassas free of charge with free meal, free books etc., why shouldn't they avail of the opportunity. The government of the day had totally ignored them. On top of that, there are 275,000 mosques in the country! With a propaganda machinery as massive as this, it is no wonder that the vast majority of illiterate Muslims are falling prey to the ideology (Wahhabism/Salafism) these madrassas and mosques are spreading. So, the faith which was in existence for centuries in the subcontinent has now become mainstream educational platform for the vast majority of the population. To them nothing matters other than what mullahs told them about educational/religious matters - Allah, Creator, Satan, Heaven and Hell etc. These mono-directional bigoted educational instructions remain embedded in their minds and these people reinforce each other's conceited religious ideas and this is what Avijit called 'the virus of faith'.

To answer to your second question, I would say that religion definitely violates Human Rights. I myself had published a number of articles indicating how religion violates Human Rights - women must remain confined within the house, their education level cannot go beyond level 5 etc. These are religious violations which are in addition to what is practiced in Middle Eastern Muslim countries in the name of religion. Again I can forward my published paper, if you are interested.

The third question is bit of a conundrum. I would say that religious militancy gives rise to the use of hijab, burqa and niqab; not the other way round. These attires are explicit statements of religious superiority and virtuosity by bigoted minds; even though the people donning them are far from superior. 

Lastly I would say that the religion had been hijacked by the Wahhabis to suit their political agenda. Of course, Islam had always been a political religion; but it had never been used so blatantly as a political tool.

I hope I have answered your questions.

- AR
 (Dr A Rahman) 

From: "subimal chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 8 March 2015, 3:56
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: কী করে একটি হত্যাকাণ্ড বিভৎস মজা হয়ে ওঠে!!!!!

 
Thanks Dr. Rahman for giving us an opportunity to read the article by Lipika Pelham. I have not read Avijit Roy's "The Virus of Faith", and that's why I am not aware of the content and tone of the text. But I agree that faith (in a religion, nationalism, communism, etc.) is a virus as it can grow and spread fast. The people of the Indian subcontinent historically have always embraced a faith, which means that all encompassing virus has always been there. Now the question is how the viral 'infection' has affected the various aspects of a society. Has the effect of religion been always some sort of human rights violation? Definitely not. Religion tries to control one's life style which includes food pattern and clothes one needs to wear. Wearing hijab, burkha, keeping beard, and wearing Islamic cap, etc. are common among the Muslims. Lipika Pelham has noticed excessive use of the same during her recent visit to Bangladesh. Why is this excessive use of the same? The preachers obviously morally oblige the believers and even create fear in their minds. I wonder if this widespread use of cap, hijab, etc. has any correlation with Islamic militancy. My understanding is that there is no such correlation. I believe Islamic militancy is a product of politics.            




On Thursday, March 5, 2015 4:34 PM, "ANISUR RAHMAN anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
What can I say? The points you raised here crossed my mind too, but I found no rational answer. I tried my best to raise consciousness among the Bangladeshi public and international concerned people - a bdnews24.com op-ed, mukto-mona article, international petitions through www.avaaz.org, British Humanist Association petition, FB posting, signing of the petition of the US Congress demanding FBI involvement etc etc. Let us see whether the murderer or murderers are apprehended or not. 

Read the write-up by a Bangladeshi lady living in England - End of Secular Bangladesh? - the link is given below

Please write to your friends, colleagues, relations and, of course, to the local politicians. As the article above pointed out: "If Avijit is beaten, so is Bangladesh". So it is an existential struggle. 

- A Rahman


From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 5 March 2015, 16:57
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: কী করে একটি হত্যাকাণ্ড বিভৎস মজা হয়ে ওঠে!!!!!

 
Hasina's past record regarding her reaction to Islamist militants's attacks on freedom loving people was pretty good. Khaleda blamed AL for the brutal attack on Humayun Azad. Hasina was not allowed to visit wounded Azad in the hospital. Hasina met Malali and gave her an affectionate kiss on the forehead. But it is really intriguing what happened this time. Her complete silence is not only shocking, it is painful too. I expected her to visit Prof. Ajoy Roy who happens to be a recipient of Ekushey Padak. She visits burn units. She visits victims and close relatives of victims to solace them. Avijit was an atheist. And so was Humayun Azad. I don't know if there is any other politics or she has any personal grievance. It is noteworthy that Mamata expressed her condemnation. Any way, I am happy that Hasina has allowed FBI to investigate. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 4, 2015, at 8:46 AM, Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
It is rather odd that PM has nothing to say about this gruesome murder of a great intellectual and freethinker. Her stance is very troubling. It looks like the progressive forces have to fight their own battle without the Awamis? 



On Tuesday, March 3, 2015 8:20 PM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Pakistan goes through some kind of election every few years, and it has some king of government. But, the ultimate power is always with the military and the religious fanatics. How about Bangladesh?
Bangladesh has a government also, but ultimate power is with the military and the religious fanatics. As a result, Government officials and Politicians think many times before taking any step or saying anything against religious fanatics. As you can see - Prime Minister is mum on the gruesome murder of Avijit Roy. So, what can you say about country's academicians, when government appears to be powerless on this issue? The entire country appears to be under seize, and everyone's life is on lease from the religious fanatics.
Alas! This is the Sheikh Mujib's Sonar Bangla today.
Jiten Roy

 

From: "Shah DeEldar shahdeeldar@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Americanbangladeshi <americanbangladeshi@googlegroups.com>; Bangladeshi American Googlegroup <bangladeshiamericans@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2015 5:10 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Re: কী করে একটি হত্যাকাণ্ড বিভৎস মজা হয়ে ওঠে!!!!!

 
Short, crisp and elegant writing! People like Abhijit was born in a wrong country where idiotic ideas and beliefs have more value than critical thinking. Shame on us!

2015-03-03 15:10 GMT-05:00 'Bishawjit saha' via Bangladesh Progressives <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>:

কী করে একটি হত্যাকাণ্ড বিভৎস মজা হয়ে ওঠে

লেখক: কুলদা রায়

ddহুমায়ুন আজাদকে হত্যা করার পর ১১ বছর কেটে গেছে। রাজীব হায়দারকে মারা হয়েছে ২ বছর আছে। অভিজিতের মৃত্যুর পরে তিন দিন কেটে গেছে।
সরকার চুপ করে আছে। তারা কিছু বলে মৌলবাদীদের বিরাগভাজন হতে চায় না।  বিএনপি কিছু বলবে না। তারা মৌলবাদীদের মিত্রদল। জামায়াত মৌলবাদীদের মূল হোতা। এরশাদ কোনো দলের মধ্যে পড়ে না—স্রেফ পুঁতি দুর্গন্ধময় জীবাণুমাত্র। আনু স্যার তেল গ্যাস থাকলে আছেন। তিনি খুব দ্বিধায় থাকেন—কোনটা আবার ভারতের পক্ষে চলে যায়। কোনটা আবার হিন্দুপক্ষের কথা হয়ে পড়ে। কোনটা আবার মুক্তিযুদ্ধের পক্ষে শক্তি জোগায়। এগুলো ঠিক তিনি পছন্দ করেন না। শুধু তেল গ্যাস—আর গ্যাস তেল হলে তিনি আছেন।
সিপিবি-বাসদের এখনো বাল্যদশা ঘোচেনি। এর আগেই তারা জবুথবু বুড়ো হয়ে যাচ্ছেন। বাড়তি একটা লেপ তোষক দরকার। ড. কামাল হোসেনের সবার আগে দরকার জামাইকে বাঁচানো। বেচারা একটু বেয়াদ্দপ। কিন্তু তবু তো জামাই। খুশি রাখা দরকার। কাদের সিদ্দিকী মাসখানেক অফিসের সামনে কোলবালিশে হেলান দিয়ে আছেন। তিনি তার দিগন্ত টিভির চাকরিটা ফেরত চান। তিনি এ জগতে টাকা চান। পরজগতেও টাকা চান। টাকা ছাড়া আর কোনো কথা নেই। দিগন্ত টিভি মরজগৎ ও পরজগতের টাকা প্রাপ্তির একমাত্র পরীক্ষিত উপায়। ড. ইউনূস বেচারার নোবেল ছাড়া মনে আর কিছু নেই। আব্দুল্লাহ আবু সায়ীদ পণ্ডিত মানুষ। পণ্ডিতদের বাণী দেওয়া ছাড়া আর কোনো কাজ থাকতে পারে না।
আনিসুজ্জামান স্যারের অনেক কাজ। অনেক মিটিং সেমিনারের সভাপতিত্ব করা বাকি আছে। সবার উপরে আছে প্রথম আলোর দায়। ফলে তিনি এই বুড়ো বয়সে এতোটা সময় দিতে পারবেন না। সৈয়দ শামসুল হক সাহেব সবার উপরে কবি। শেষ বয়সে সময় নষ্ট না করে খেলা রাম খেলে যা'র আরেকটা সিক্যুয়াল লিখতে পারলে মন্দ হয় না। বাংলা একাডেমির চাকরি চলে গেলে প্রথম আলোর চাকরিটা নিশ্চিত করতে শামসুজ্জামান খানকে একটু বেশি সময় দিতে হচ্ছে। মুহাম্মদ আব্দুস সামাদ ঠিক কবি না মাইকম্যান সেটা এখনো ঠিক করতে পারেননি।
নাসিরুদ্দিন বাচ্চুকে সন্ধ্যার পরে ফরহাদ মজহারের সঙ্গে একটু আড্ডায় বসতে হয়। লোকটা পুরনো বন্ধু। এখন হেফাজতের গুরু। তাকে হাতে রাখা দরকার। আবার পোলাপানের সঙ্গেও না থাকলে চলে না। একটা জগাখিঁচুড়ি অবস্থা। এখন আবার বয়স বাড়ছে।
এ ধরনের আর যারা আছেন বা থাকছেন অথবা যাদের থাকা দরকার, তাদের জন্য মাঝে মাঝে 'লড়াই লড়াই লড়াই চাই' বলে গলা সাধাটা নিয়তি। ফলে অভিজিতের রক্ত বৃথা যেতে দেবো না। রাজীবের রক্ত বৃথা যেতে দেবো না। হুমায়ুন আজাদের রক্ত ইটের মতো শক্ত। এই ইট দিয়ে একটা পোক্ত বাড়ি বানাবো। সেখানে কম্বলমুড়ি দিয়ে ঘুমাবো। আর উঠে এক ফাঁকে চেঁচিয়ে বলবো—সব কিছু নষ্টদের অধিকারে যাবে। মানি না মানবো না ইত্যাদি। অভিজিৎ পর্বটা মিলিয়ে গেলে আরেকজন এক্স ওয়াই জেডের লাশ পড়বে। তখন আবার মিটিং মিছিল মানববন্ধন করা যাবে। এই এক বিভৎস মজা। মজা ছাড়া এ জীবন বৃথা!
ফলে অভিজিৎ হত্যার বিচার হলো কি হলো না, সেটার ব্যাপারে কারো কোনো দায় নেই। ওটা অভিজিতের বুড়ো বাবার দায়। রাজীবের হত্যার বিচারের ব্যাপারে উকিল, কোর্ট কাচারির ঝামেলা রাজীবের বাবার ঝামেলা। হুমায়ুন আজাদের মামলার কি হলো কি হলো না সেটা অনন্য আজাদ ছেলেটার দেখার দায়িত্ব। বিচার যে থমকে আছে, বিচার যে হচ্ছে না সে ব্যর্থতা রাষ্ট্র, রাজনীতিক, সংস্কৃতি কর্মী, কবি, শিল্পী বা মানবাধিকার কর্মীদের নয়—ব্যর্থতা আজাদ স্যারের ছেলেমেয়েদের অথবা ওয়াইফের। সো অভিজিৎ, আপনি মৌলবাদের বিরুদ্ধে লিখেছেন। আপনি মৌলবাদীদের হাতে খুন হয়েছেন। সেটা আপনার ব্যক্তিগত ব্যাপার। পারিবারিক বিষয়। আপনি মরেছেন বলে আমরা মাঠ গরম করার একটা ইস্যু পেয়েছি। এটা আমাদের বিষয়। আর কি? এবার ধরা যাক দুএকটা ইঁদুর আবার।
তাহলে এই সব ধানাই পানাইয়ের কোনো মূল্য আছে? আছে। তবে সেটা খুবই সামান্য। বড়জোর তিন থেকে এক সপ্তাহ। একটু সা রে গা মা পা ধা নি সা।
কথা হলো, অভিজিৎকে হত্যা করা করা হয়েছে। এটা একটা খুনের মামলা। তিনি কেনো খুন হয়েছেন সেটা নিয়ে শুধু হৈচৈ করার মধ্যে দিয়ে কর্তব্য সমাধা করা মানে আরেকজন অভিজিৎ, রাজীব কিংবা হুমায়ুন আজাদের খুনের পথ করে দেওয়া। তাহলে কী করতে হবে?
করতে হবে এই হত্যাকাণ্ডের দ্রুত বিচার সমাধা করার ব্যবস্থা গ্রহণ। সেজন্য মিটিং মিছিল বিবৃতি কলাম লেখার পাশাপাশি একটা শক্তিশালী আইনজীবী সেল গঠন করা দরকার  যারা সর্বাত্মকভাবে লেগে থাকবেন কোর্টের পিছনে। মামলার পিছনে। কার্যকর আইনী লড়াই করে হত্যাকারীদের সর্বোচ্চ শাস্তির রায় আদায় করে ছাড়বেন। সেই রায় কার্যকর করার জন্য কাজ করে যাবেন। এর জন্য প্রয়োজনীয় আইনজীবী, লোকবল, অর্থ, সংগঠন গড়ে তুলতে হবে। এই কাজটি আছে আমাদের দেশে? নেই। যারা মাঠ গরম করছেন তাদের কি কোনো পদক্ষেপ আছে এই বিষয়ে? নেই রে ভাই—নেই। ওটা পশ্চিমী সংস্কৃতি।
হত্যাকারীদের দৃষ্টান্তমূলক শাস্তি প্রদান করা গেলে অভিজিৎদের মৃত্যু সত্যিকারে ঠেকানো যাবে। হত্যার বিচার না হওয়ার হত্যাকাণ্ডে আমরা অভ্যস্ত হয়ে যাচ্ছি। এটা এক ধরনের অসুস্থতা। এইভাবে অসুস্থ করে তোলাও মৌলবাদীদের একটি পরিকল্পনা। এটা মৌলবাদীরা জানে—আমরা জানি না।

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Posted by: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>


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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





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