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Tuesday, December 24, 2013

Re: [mukto-mona] Zafar Iqbal's ever burning pain.

Dr. Zafar Iqbal, younger brother of my deceased friend, Humayun Ahmed,
is a bit over emotional in expression. Delua Rajaker was said to have
been involved in the murder of his father. None of the sons of the
deceased attended the witness stand during the recent trial of Saeedi.
Earlier, some of them even attended the marriage ceremony of one of
his children.


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Re: [mukto-mona] Gay mathematician gets royal pardon

Alan Turing is also credited with being the inventor of computer.


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Re: [mukto-mona] Zafar Iqbal's ever burning pain.



First, let me correct a mistake that I made; I should not have misspelled the name of Dr. Zafar Iqbal (I have now corrected it in my last post below.)
 
Talking about the correct spellings of proper nouns, a person's name should be spelled the way he/she himself/herself does. I surely try to be correct there when it comes to respectable individuals. And, to me, all good people are respectable, irrespective of his/her societal or professional status. However, for despicable criminals, I do not care much, as long as my readers can see whom I am talking about.
 
Let me clarify one more thing. Do I think that all Pakistanis are bad people? No. Do I think Pakistanis on an average are hopelessly idiotic? Yes.
 
SuBain
 
==========================================
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Zafar Iqbal's ever burning pain.

 
 
Dr. Zafar Iqbal has so vividly written exactly how I feel.
 
I also feel that this is not the time to criticize Awami League or Sheikh Hasina.
 
I am in total agreement with Dr. Iqbal as to how self-respecting Bangladeshis should feel about Pakistan in general. We can feel pity about the lack of human development and education in Pakistan, but there is no doubt that it is not just the feudal and military rulers who have not come to their senses vis-à-vis the break-up of Pakistan in 1971. That whole nation still remains addicted to their pan-Islamic stupidity. They certainly have not come to the realization of the gravity of the heinous crimes that were committed by the Pakistani military and their collaborators in 1971 on the ordinary people of East Bengal, which constitutes most of today's Bangladesh.
 
To me, Bangladeshis who have been talking about friendly or brotherly relationship with Pakistan are necessarily utterly idiotic; if not illegitimate creatures on Earth, in the real sense of the word 'illegitimate'.
 
SuBain
 
=========================================
 
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Zafar Iqbal's ever burning pain.
 
 
While reading Jafar Iqbal's emotional writing, I was trying to understand why and how so many "professional" intellectuals in Bangladesh can change their views so quickly, so easily, and go against Sheikh Hashina at the time when Bangladesh has opened the second phase of liberation war, in which - country is engaged in bringing justice to those criminals, who have taken part in the genocide during the liberation of Bangladesh. Shouldn't they forget petty issues and get united behind Awami League now? Instead, they have been trying to pour fuel in the fire to make this process even more difficult to accomplish. Why is that? Why?

Like Jaffor Iqbal, I asked myself many times – why do professional intellectuals blame government when BNP/Jamat cadres kill people, burn houses, businesses, and properties? Why do they blame government for the crimes of BNP/Jamat? Why are so many people shading tears for Kader Molla, the butcher of Mirpur, who has been recognized by Pakistani government as one of their collaborators?  Why do they still cast doubt about the justice of Kader Molla? I find no answers to so many of these questions.

Jiten Roy


On Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:57 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

 
 
alt
 
গ্লানি মুক্তির বাংলাদেশ সাদাসিধে কথা
banglanews24.com
Largest News Agency From Bangladesh








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[mukto-mona] Gay mathematician gets royal pardon





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[mukto-mona] Time for Ahmadedias to leave Pak-Stan?



How can you be pure enough to be a Pakistani when a Pakistani would love to have one way ticket to an infidel country like US or EU? Is this the face of an evil? Has Islam become a cult religion in Pakistan?
-SD

Jailed British Ahmadi Masood Ahmad in Pakistan blasphemy appeal

Worshippers at the Ahmadi mosque in Lahore Ahmadis are increasingly being persecuted under Pakistan's laws, activists say

A British man of the minority Ahmadi sect is appealing to the UK for help after being jailed in Pakistan on blasphemy charges. Human rights activists say laws in Pakistan, where Ahmadis are considered heretics, are being increasingly used to persecute the community, as the BBC's Saba Eitizaz reports.
It was a home video that turned a man viewed as the old neighbourhood doctor into a prisoner without bail.
Masood Ahmad shuffles through the dank prison corridor, smiling when he greets me. He looks weak and speaks little. And he worries - but not for his freedom.
"I just want you to tell my children that I am fine. It grieves me more that they must be so worried."

"Start Quote

Have I killed or robbed anyone? I request the British government to help me ensure a fair trial"
Masood Ahmad
He asks me to convey this message to his seven children living in Britain and Australia.
Last month Mr Ahmad, 72, was arrested at his homeopathic clinic in Lahore on blasphemy charges.
Two people posing as patients came to him for treatment and had a conversation about religion instead.
They used mobile phones to secretly film him reciting a verse from the Koran, and then called the police to have him arrested.
A photograph of Masood Ahmad is held by his nephew at his house in Lahore December 10, 2013 Masood Ahmad says he felt "marked", but didn't see his arrest coming
The homeopathy practitioner belongs to the Ahmadi minority sect that a large number of Pakistanis view with suspicion because of a law declaring them to be non-Muslims.
Ahmadis, whose holy book is also the Koran, believe their own founder, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, was a prophet, which most Muslims say contradicts mainstream Islamic teaching.
Ahmadis can be jailed for up to three years in Pakistan for "behaving like Muslims", having Muslim names or using Islamic terms for their places of worship or religious rituals.
Human rights activists say the law is now being used to push the Ahmadi community into a legal corner by right-wing religious groups in Pakistan. They are also open targets for sectarian violence by extremists.

"When you formalise persecution of minorities, you should expect extremist elements to take advantage of that, because that is what they thrive on," says human rights lawyer Asma Jehangir, who has raised the issue at several international forums.
Masood Ahmad says he felt "marked" even before he was picked up.
"Somebody had painted a black mark on my car and outside my house a few weeks before I was arrested, so I knew I was being watched."
He still did not see his arrest coming. After all, he had lived in the old neighbourhood of Anarkali since the late 1980s and had close ties with the community.
He is a Pakistani-British dual national who says he returned with a desire to raise his children with Pakistani values and to help people through his medicine.
According to police sources, almost 10 of his neighbours gave eyewitness testimony against him for preaching his faith.
He tells me that many of them also came to see him in jail, concerned for his wellbeing.
"I do not partake in religious debate. I am a doctor, a professional," he says.
Mohammad Hasan Moawwiya Mohammad Hasan Moawwiya says what he is doing is in line with the law
The official complaint registered is in the name of a local cleric who refused to speak to the BBC - but the phone number on it was traced to an activist called Mohammad Hasan Moawwiya, whose name appears in several similar cases against Ahmadis.
He is associated with an emerging group called The Khattam-e-Nabuwwat Lawyer's Forum - an extended legal wing of Khattam-e-Nabuwwat - a right-wing religious group that has also been associated with distributing hate literature and actively campaigning against the Ahmadiyya community in the past.
Mr Moawwiya says it is his legal and constitutional right to do so.
"After the law of 1984 was made, it doesn't mean that it should be neglected, it should be implemented actively," he says. "They [Ahmadis] should name their religion and names as separate to us Muslims, otherwise it's a violation and we are allowed by the law of the country to carry on our work."
However, huge mobs were reported outside the police station when Mr Ahmad was arrested, chanting "Be Qadri! Be Qadri!"
This was a reference to Mumtaz Qadri, the bodyguard of former Punjab Governor Salman Taseer who he killed for speaking out against the blasphemy laws in 2011. He is currently in jail but revered by many.
"The danger is not inside jail, the danger to me is outside," says Mr Ahmad, who is being kept under tight security in Lahore's District Jail.
Security and barricades at the Ahmadi mosque in Lahore Ahmadis now worship and remember their dead behind high walls and barbed wire
The same angry crowds are seen at every court hearing and Mr Ahmad fears the judges may feel pressurised while reaching a verdict. His lawyers have applied for bail twice, due to his old age and illness - but their attempts have failed. The court has cited "insufficient grounds for bail".
Mr Ahmed is now appealing to the British High Commission. "Have I killed or robbed anyone? I request the British government to help me ensure a fair trial. That is all I ask."
His daughter in Australia, Sophia Ahmad, says she is corresponding with the British High Commission and international legal charities to help her father.
"He is recovering from cancer, he is sick and needs medication. We are very worried for him," she told the BBC in Skype conversation.
According to Ahmadi groups, more than 20 cases have been registered against Ahmadis this year alone.
Many others remain in jail.
Another member of the community, Faisal, is still waiting for his 60-year-old father's release after he was jailed earlier this year for reading an Ahmadi newspaper.
The complaint was filed by Mohammad Hasan Moawwiya.
Faisal prays for his father at the Ahmadi mosque in Lahore that was violently attacked by militants with grenades and guns in 2010, killing more than 80 people.
Two of the gunmen arrested at the scene have still not been convicted.
The mosque now resembles an army barracks, with concrete blockades and volunteers from the community patrolling the area at Friday prayer time, shotguns and walkie-talkies at their sides, in order to protect worshippers.
Ahmedi graveyard in Lahore These Ahmadi graves survived this year's attack - many others were desecrated
Close by is the Ahmadi graveyard, but you cannot tell from the outside.
High walls and barbed wire are all you can see, as well as a sniper on the rooftop.
Earlier this year, the entire western portion of the graveyard was destroyed by gunmen who broke through the walls, demolishing many gravestones.
Now a fortress has been built to protect the Ahmadi dead.
Meanwhile, Masood Ahmad waits for his verdict.
"I used to read about minorities being targeted in the newspapers," he says. "Now I'm in the news."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25498545
 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



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Re: [mukto-mona] Zafar Iqbal's ever burning pain.



I too got totally perplexed with Mr. Rahman going after Mr. Roy's name spellings which should not be an issue unless he got an axe to grind with Mr. Roy. If the names were spelled incorrectly in Bangla, Mr. Rahman may have a point. But names spelled English? I am sorry, I found it very odd.

If I have to believe Mr. Iqbal's Pakistan avoidance, I must say he is my hero. I do not think we can find many such personalities in our current Bangladesh. Mr. Iqbal is right about that the things could have gone far easier for us if we could prosecute these killers right after the independence. The question is why could not we do that? Why could not we allow the mob justice to take place when blood was still fresh and wet? No doubt, it is harder now and a lot of water has flown under the bridges to make us more mellower and merciful. Even priorities for the country has changed. The criminals have been fully rehabilitated within BNP/Jamat and they have the money and muscle to go after the whole state. Can we afford another civil war? Can we beat them again? If so, I say more power to Hasina. Otherwise, bring them to the table and run the country from the center. I hate to see more blood on the street.
-SD    

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



On Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:18 PM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Anis Rahman: ".... Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Zafar Iqbal; not Jafar Iqbal or Jaffor Iqbal.  Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Jamaat; not Jamat. Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Quader Molla; not Kader Molla. With such oversight in simple matters, it is not surprising that delicate things are missed by him."

If these are the most delicate things to you, how you will see what's really damaging to the nation.

Hello, the country is passing through the final phase of the history of liberation struggle, which remained undone for 42 years, mainly due to international conspiracies. Obviously, you missed that point, as you were looking for spelling mistakes in the proper nouns.

By the way, how do you know which one is the correct spelling of a proper noun? Can you prove which one is right and which one is wrong? Just curious!

Jiten Roy








On Tuesday, December 24, 2013 6:51 PM, ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com> wrote:
 
Zafar Iqbal's emotional outburst bears the testimony of his pain and at the same time shows his extreme nationalism and patriotism. 
But Jiten Roy's blame on 'professionals and intellectuals' of Bangladesh failing to see things his way is totally unacceptable. The problem is that he does not pick up things as he reads a discourse. Let me point out few things before going on to the main issue.

Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Zafar Iqbal; not Jafar Iqbal or Jaffor Iqbal.  Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Jamaat; not Jamat. Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Quader Molla; not Kader Molla. With such oversight in simple matters, it is not surprising that delicate things are missed by him.

He seems to be absolutely positive that all the killings and murders are caused by BNP/Jamaat. Yes, BNP/Jamaat are calling the strikes and they are causing most of the deaths, but definitely not all the deaths. There are reports that the AL people are also attacking people or attacking opponents and killing them. There are incontrovertible evidence that AL supporters attacked minorities at various places in order to put blame on BNP/Jamaat. So when Bangladeshi 'professionals and intellectuals' hold back their guilty verdict on opposition in all cases, they are showing that they are not blinded like Jiten Roy.

Nobody is defending Quader Molla or 'casting doubt' on his punishment. I have the feeling that Jiten Roy had not read my article on Quader Molla, which was published about three days ago in bdnews24.com. The URL is given below. If you read it, you will find that 'Bangladeshi professionals and intellectuals' are not as obfuscated as you think.
 

- Anis Rahman

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 24 December 2013, 18:54
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Zafar Iqbal's ever burning pain.

 

While reading Jafar Iqbal's emotional writing, I was trying to understand why and how so many "professional" intellectuals in Bangladesh can change their views so quickly, so easily, and go against Sheikh Hashina at the time when Bangladesh has opened the second phase of liberation war, in which - country is engaged in bringing justice to those criminals, who have taken part in the genocide during the liberation of Bangladesh. Shouldn't they forget petty issues and get united behind Awami League now? Instead, they have been trying to pour fuel in the fire to make this process even more difficult to accomplish. Why is that? Why?

Like Jaffor Iqbal, I asked myself many times – why do professional intellectuals blame government when BNP/Jamat cadres kill people, burn houses, businesses, and properties? Why do they blame government for the crimes of BNP/Jamat? Why are so many people shading tears for Kader Molla, the butcher of Mirpur, who has been recognized by Pakistani government as one of their collaborators?  Why do they still cast doubt about the justice of Kader Molla? I find no answers to so many of these questions.

Jiten Roy



On Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:57 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

 
 
alt
 
গ্লানি মুক্তির বাংলাদেশ সাদাসিধে কথা
banglanews24.com
Largest News Agency From Bangladesh










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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
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http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] Zafar Iqbal's ever burning pain.



Anis Rahman: ".... Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Zafar Iqbal; not Jafar Iqbal or Jaffor Iqbal.  Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Jamaat; not Jamat. Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Quader Molla; not Kader Molla. With such oversight in simple matters, it is not surprising that delicate things are missed by him."

If these are the most delicate things to you, how you will see what's really damaging to the nation.

Hello, the country is passing through the final phase of the history of liberation struggle, which remained undone for 42 years, mainly due to international conspiracies. Obviously, you missed that point, as you were looking for spelling mistakes in the proper nouns.

By the way, how do you know which one is the correct spelling of a proper noun? Can you prove which one is right and which one is wrong? Just curious!

Jiten Roy








On Tuesday, December 24, 2013 6:51 PM, ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com> wrote:
 
Zafar Iqbal's emotional outburst bears the testimony of his pain and at the same time shows his extreme nationalism and patriotism. 
But Jiten Roy's blame on 'professionals and intellectuals' of Bangladesh failing to see things his way is totally unacceptable. The problem is that he does not pick up things as he reads a discourse. Let me point out few things before going on to the main issue.

Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Zafar Iqbal; not Jafar Iqbal or Jaffor Iqbal.  Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Jamaat; not Jamat. Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Quader Molla; not Kader Molla. With such oversight in simple matters, it is not surprising that delicate things are missed by him.

He seems to be absolutely positive that all the killings and murders are caused by BNP/Jamaat. Yes, BNP/Jamaat are calling the strikes and they are causing most of the deaths, but definitely not all the deaths. There are reports that the AL people are also attacking people or attacking opponents and killing them. There are incontrovertible evidence that AL supporters attacked minorities at various places in order to put blame on BNP/Jamaat. So when Bangladeshi 'professionals and intellectuals' hold back their guilty verdict on opposition in all cases, they are showing that they are not blinded like Jiten Roy.

Nobody is defending Quader Molla or 'casting doubt' on his punishment. I have the feeling that Jiten Roy had not read my article on Quader Molla, which was published about three days ago in bdnews24.com. The URL is given below. If you read it, you will find that 'Bangladeshi professionals and intellectuals' are not as obfuscated as you think.
 

- Anis Rahman

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 24 December 2013, 18:54
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Zafar Iqbal's ever burning pain.

 

While reading Jafar Iqbal's emotional writing, I was trying to understand why and how so many "professional" intellectuals in Bangladesh can change their views so quickly, so easily, and go against Sheikh Hashina at the time when Bangladesh has opened the second phase of liberation war, in which - country is engaged in bringing justice to those criminals, who have taken part in the genocide during the liberation of Bangladesh. Shouldn't they forget petty issues and get united behind Awami League now? Instead, they have been trying to pour fuel in the fire to make this process even more difficult to accomplish. Why is that? Why?

Like Jaffor Iqbal, I asked myself many times – why do professional intellectuals blame government when BNP/Jamat cadres kill people, burn houses, businesses, and properties? Why do they blame government for the crimes of BNP/Jamat? Why are so many people shading tears for Kader Molla, the butcher of Mirpur, who has been recognized by Pakistani government as one of their collaborators?  Why do they still cast doubt about the justice of Kader Molla? I find no answers to so many of these questions.

Jiten Roy



On Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:57 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

 
 
alt
 
গ্লানি মুক্তির বাংলাদেশ সাদাসিধে কথা
banglanews24.com
Largest News Agency From Bangladesh








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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] Christmas' Pagan Origins



Please look at Karen Armstrong's book on 'A History of God'. 

- AR


From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 23 December 2013, 10:14
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Christmas' Pagan Origins

 
For example, both of the Muslim Eids come from pagan tradition. Even Hajj comes from pagan tradition.

>>>>>>>>> How so? Kindly share your knowledge with us.

Shalom!

-----Original Message-----
From: ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 22, 2013 3:38 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Christmas' Pagan Origins

 
Quite informative.

Many monotheistic traditions, particularly celebrations, have pagan origins. For example, both of the Muslim Eids come from pagan tradition. Even Hajj comes from pagan tradition. It is of no surprise at all as paganism predates monotheistic religions, these religions borrowed some of the practices from pagan pantheism and passed them on as divine transcendence. 

- Anis Rahman  


From: Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 22 December 2013, 15:13
Subject: [mukto-mona] Christmas' Pagan Origins

 
Christmas' Pagan Origins
Few people realize that the origins of a form of Christmas was pagan & celebrated in Europe long before anyone there had heard of Jesus Christ.

No one knows what day Jesus Christ was born on. From the biblical description, most historians believe that his birth probably occurred in September, approximately six months after Passover. One thing they agree on is that it is very unlikely that Jesus was born in December, since the bible records shepherds tending their sheep in the fields on that night. This is quite unlikely to have happened during a cold Judean winter. So why do we celebrate Christ's birthday as Christmas, on December the 25th?

The answer lies in the pagan origins of Christmas. In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25. Raucous partying, gluttonous eating and drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast.

In Rome, the Winter Solstice was celebrated many years before the birth of Christ. The Romans called their winter holiday Saturnalia, honouring Saturn, the God of Agriculture. In January, they observed the Kalends of January, which represented the triumph of life over death. This whole season was called Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. The festival season was marked by much merrymaking. It is in ancient Rome that the tradition of the Mummers was born. The Mummers were groups of costumed singers and dancers who travelled from house to house entertaining their neighbours. From this, the Christmas tradition of caroling was born.
In northern Europe, many other traditions that we now consider part of Christian worship were begun long before the participants had ever heard of Christ. The pagans of northern Europe celebrated the their own winter solstice, known as Yule. Yule was symbolic of the pagan Sun God, Mithras, being born, and was observed on the shortest day of the year. As the Sun God grew and matured, the days became longer and warmer. It was customary to light a candle to encourage Mithras, and the sun, to reappear next year.
Huge Yule logs were burned in honour of the sun. The word Yule itself means "wheel," the wheel being a pagan symbol for the sun. Mistletoe was considered a sacred plant, and the custom of kissing under the mistletoe began as a fertility ritual. Holly berries were thought to be a food of the gods.

The tree is the one symbol that unites almost all the northern European winter solstices. Live evergreen trees were often brought into homes during the harsh winters as a reminder to inhabitants that soon their crops would grow again. Evergreen boughs were sometimes carried as totems of good luck and were often present at weddings, representing fertility. The Druids used the tree as a religious symbol, holding their sacred ceremonies while surrounding and worshipping huge trees.

In 350, Pope Julius I declared that Christ's birth would be celebrated on December 25. There is little doubt that he was trying to make it as painless as possible for pagan Romans (who remained a majority at that time) to convert to Christianity. The new religion went down a bit easier, knowing that their feasts would not be taken away from them.

Christmas (Christ-Mass) as we know it today, most historians agree, began in Germany, though Catholics and Lutherans still disagree about which church celebrated it first. The earliest record of an evergreen being decorated in a Christian celebration was in 1521 in the Alsace region of Germany.
 
Thanks & Regards,


Sudhir Srinivasan
B.Arch, MSc.CPM, Dip.ID, Dip.CAD, Dip.PM, Dip.LD
| Architect |






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