Dr. Zafar Iqbal, younger brother of my deceased friend, Humayun Ahmed,
is a bit over emotional in expression. Delua Rajaker was said to have
been involved in the murder of his father. None of the sons of the
deceased attended the witness stand during the recent trial of Saeedi.
Earlier, some of them even attended the marriage ceremony of one of
his children.
------------------------------------
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Re: [mukto-mona] Zafar Iqbal's ever burning pain.
I too got totally perplexed with Mr. Rahman going after Mr. Roy's name spellings which should not be an issue unless he got an axe to grind with Mr. Roy. If the names were spelled incorrectly in Bangla, Mr. Rahman may have a point. But names spelled English? I am sorry, I found it very odd.
If I have to believe Mr. Iqbal's Pakistan avoidance, I must say he is my hero. I do not think we can find many such personalities in our current Bangladesh. Mr. Iqbal is right about that the things could have gone far easier for us if we could prosecute these killers right after the independence. The question is why could not we do that? Why could not we allow the mob justice to take place when blood was still fresh and wet? No doubt, it is harder now and a lot of water has flown under the bridges to make us more mellower and merciful. Even priorities for the country has changed. The criminals have been fully rehabilitated within BNP/Jamat and they have the money and muscle to go after the whole state. Can we afford another civil war? Can we beat them again? If so, I say more power to Hasina. Otherwise, bring them to the table and run the country from the center. I hate to see more blood on the street.
-SD
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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
-Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190
__,_._,___
If I have to believe Mr. Iqbal's Pakistan avoidance, I must say he is my hero. I do not think we can find many such personalities in our current Bangladesh. Mr. Iqbal is right about that the things could have gone far easier for us if we could prosecute these killers right after the independence. The question is why could not we do that? Why could not we allow the mob justice to take place when blood was still fresh and wet? No doubt, it is harder now and a lot of water has flown under the bridges to make us more mellower and merciful. Even priorities for the country has changed. The criminals have been fully rehabilitated within BNP/Jamat and they have the money and muscle to go after the whole state. Can we afford another civil war? Can we beat them again? If so, I say more power to Hasina. Otherwise, bring them to the table and run the country from the center. I hate to see more blood on the street.
-SD
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss
-Seuss
On Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:18 PM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
Anis Rahman: ".... Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Zafar Iqbal; not Jafar Iqbal or Jaffor Iqbal. Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Jamaat; not Jamat. Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Quader Molla; not Kader Molla. With such oversight in simple matters, it is not surprising that delicate things are missed by him."
If these are the most delicate things to you, how you will see what's really damaging to the nation.
Hello, the country is passing through the final phase of the history of liberation struggle, which remained undone for 42 years, mainly due to international conspiracies. Obviously, you missed that point, as you were looking for spelling mistakes in the proper nouns.
By the way, how do you know which one is the correct spelling of a proper noun? Can you prove which one is right and which one is wrong? Just curious!
Jiten Roy
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 24 December 2013, 18:54
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Zafar Iqbal's ever burning pain.
If these are the most delicate things to you, how you will see what's really damaging to the nation.
Hello, the country is passing through the final phase of the history of liberation struggle, which remained undone for 42 years, mainly due to international conspiracies. Obviously, you missed that point, as you were looking for spelling mistakes in the proper nouns.
By the way, how do you know which one is the correct spelling of a proper noun? Can you prove which one is right and which one is wrong? Just curious!
Jiten Roy
On Tuesday, December 24, 2013 6:51 PM, ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com> wrote:
Zafar Iqbal's emotional outburst bears the testimony of his pain and at the same time shows his extreme nationalism and patriotism.
But Jiten Roy's blame on 'professionals and intellectuals' of Bangladesh failing to see things his way is totally unacceptable. The problem is that he does not pick up things as he reads a discourse. Let me point out few things before going on to the main issue.
Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Zafar Iqbal; not Jafar Iqbal or Jaffor Iqbal. Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Jamaat; not Jamat. Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Quader Molla; not Kader Molla. With such oversight in simple matters, it is not surprising that delicate things are missed by him.
He seems to be absolutely positive that all the killings and murders are caused by BNP/Jamaat. Yes, BNP/Jamaat are calling the strikes and they are causing most of the deaths, but definitely not all the deaths. There are reports that the AL people are also attacking people or attacking opponents and killing them. There are incontrovertible evidence that AL supporters attacked minorities at various places in order to put blame on BNP/Jamaat. So when Bangladeshi 'professionals and intellectuals' hold back their guilty verdict on opposition in all cases, they are showing that they are not blinded like Jiten Roy.
Nobody is defending Quader Molla or 'casting doubt' on his punishment. I have the feeling that Jiten Roy had not read my article on Quader Molla, which was published about three days ago in bdnews24.com. The URL is given below. If you read it, you will find that 'Bangladeshi professionals and intellectuals' are not as obfuscated as you think.
- Anis Rahman
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 24 December 2013, 18:54
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Zafar Iqbal's ever burning pain.
While reading Jafar Iqbal's emotional writing, I was trying to understand why and how so many "professional" intellectuals in Bangladesh can change their views so quickly, so easily, and go against Sheikh Hashina at the time when Bangladesh has opened the second phase of liberation war, in which - country is engaged in bringing justice to those criminals, who have taken part in the genocide during the liberation of Bangladesh. Shouldn't they forget petty issues and get united behind Awami League now? Instead, they have been trying to pour fuel in the fire to make this process even more difficult to accomplish. Why is that? Why?
Like Jaffor Iqbal, I asked myself many times – why do professional intellectuals blame government when BNP/Jamat cadres kill people, burn houses, businesses, and properties? Why do they blame government for the crimes of BNP/Jamat? Why are so many people shading tears for Kader Molla, the butcher of Mirpur, who has been recognized by Pakistani government as one of their collaborators? Why do they still cast doubt about the justice of Kader Molla? I find no answers to so many of these questions.
Jiten Roy
__._,_.___
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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration:
Call For Articles:
http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68
http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585
****************************************************
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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
-Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190
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Re: [mukto-mona] Zafar Iqbal's ever burning pain.
Anis Rahman: ".... Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Zafar Iqbal; not Jafar Iqbal or Jaffor Iqbal. Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Jamaat; not Jamat. Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Quader Molla; not Kader Molla. With such oversight in simple matters, it is not surprising that delicate things are missed by him."
If these are the most delicate things to you, how you will see what's really damaging to the nation.
Hello, the country is passing through the final phase of the history of liberation struggle, which remained undone for 42 years, mainly due to international conspiracies. Obviously, you missed that point, as you were looking for spelling mistakes in the proper nouns.
By the way, how do you know which one is the correct spelling of a proper noun? Can you prove which one is right and which one is wrong? Just curious!
Jiten Roy
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 24 December 2013, 18:54
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Zafar Iqbal's ever burning pain.
__._,_.___
****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration:
Call For Articles:
http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68
http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585
****************************************************
VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/
****************************************************
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
-Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190
__,_._,___
If these are the most delicate things to you, how you will see what's really damaging to the nation.
Hello, the country is passing through the final phase of the history of liberation struggle, which remained undone for 42 years, mainly due to international conspiracies. Obviously, you missed that point, as you were looking for spelling mistakes in the proper nouns.
By the way, how do you know which one is the correct spelling of a proper noun? Can you prove which one is right and which one is wrong? Just curious!
Jiten Roy
On Tuesday, December 24, 2013 6:51 PM, ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com> wrote:
Zafar Iqbal's emotional outburst bears the testimony of his pain and at the same time shows his extreme nationalism and patriotism.
But Jiten Roy's blame on 'professionals and intellectuals' of Bangladesh failing to see things his way is totally unacceptable. The problem is that he does not pick up things as he reads a discourse. Let me point out few things before going on to the main issue.
Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Zafar Iqbal; not Jafar Iqbal or Jaffor Iqbal. Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Jamaat; not Jamat. Jiten Roy failed to see that it is Quader Molla; not Kader Molla. With such oversight in simple matters, it is not surprising that delicate things are missed by him.
He seems to be absolutely positive that all the killings and murders are caused by BNP/Jamaat. Yes, BNP/Jamaat are calling the strikes and they are causing most of the deaths, but definitely not all the deaths. There are reports that the AL people are also attacking people or attacking opponents and killing them. There are incontrovertible evidence that AL supporters attacked minorities at various places in order to put blame on BNP/Jamaat. So when Bangladeshi 'professionals and intellectuals' hold back their guilty verdict on opposition in all cases, they are showing that they are not blinded like Jiten Roy.
Nobody is defending Quader Molla or 'casting doubt' on his punishment. I have the feeling that Jiten Roy had not read my article on Quader Molla, which was published about three days ago in bdnews24.com. The URL is given below. If you read it, you will find that 'Bangladeshi professionals and intellectuals' are not as obfuscated as you think.
- Anis Rahman
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 24 December 2013, 18:54
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Zafar Iqbal's ever burning pain.
While reading Jafar Iqbal's emotional writing, I was trying to understand why and how so many "professional" intellectuals in Bangladesh can change their views so quickly, so easily, and go against Sheikh Hashina at the time when Bangladesh has opened the second phase of liberation war, in which - country is engaged in bringing justice to those criminals, who have taken part in the genocide during the liberation of Bangladesh. Shouldn't they forget petty issues and get united behind Awami League now? Instead, they have been trying to pour fuel in the fire to make this process even more difficult to accomplish. Why is that? Why?
Like Jaffor Iqbal, I asked myself many times – why do professional intellectuals blame government when BNP/Jamat cadres kill people, burn houses, businesses, and properties? Why do they blame government for the crimes of BNP/Jamat? Why are so many people shading tears for Kader Molla, the butcher of Mirpur, who has been recognized by Pakistani government as one of their collaborators? Why do they still cast doubt about the justice of Kader Molla? I find no answers to so many of these questions.
Jiten Roy
__._,_.___
****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration:
Call For Articles:
http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68
http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585
****************************************************
VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/
****************************************************
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
-Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190
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Re: [mukto-mona] Christmas' Pagan Origins
Please look at Karen Armstrong's book on 'A History of God'.
- AR
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 23 December 2013, 10:14
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Christmas' Pagan Origins
For example, both of the Muslim Eids come from pagan tradition. Even Hajj comes from pagan tradition.
>>>>>>>>> How so? Kindly share your knowledge with us.
Shalom!
Shalom!
-----Original Message-----
From: ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 22, 2013 3:38 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Christmas' Pagan Origins
From: Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 22 December 2013, 15:13
Subject: [mukto-mona] Christmas' Pagan Origins
Thanks & Regards,
Sudhir Srinivasan
B.Arch, MSc.CPM, Dip.ID, Dip.CAD, Dip.PM, Dip.LD
| Architect |
From: ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 22, 2013 3:38 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Christmas' Pagan Origins
Quite informative.
Many monotheistic traditions, particularly celebrations, have pagan origins. For example, both of the Muslim Eids come from pagan tradition. Even Hajj comes from pagan tradition. It is of no surprise at all as paganism predates monotheistic religions, these religions borrowed some of the practices from pagan pantheism and passed them on as divine transcendence.
- Anis Rahman
From: Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 22 December 2013, 15:13
Subject: [mukto-mona] Christmas' Pagan Origins
Christmas' Pagan Origins
Few people realize that the origins of a form of Christmas was pagan & celebrated in Europe long before anyone there had heard of Jesus Christ.
No one knows what day Jesus Christ was born on. From the biblical description, most historians believe that his birth probably occurred in September, approximately six months after Passover. One thing they agree on is that it is very unlikely that Jesus was born in December, since the bible records shepherds tending their sheep in the fields on that night. This is quite unlikely to have happened during a cold Judean winter. So why do we celebrate Christ's birthday as Christmas, on December the 25th?
The answer lies in the pagan origins of Christmas. In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25. Raucous partying, gluttonous eating and drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast.
In Rome, the Winter Solstice was celebrated many years before the birth of Christ. The Romans called their winter holiday Saturnalia, honouring Saturn, the God of Agriculture. In January, they observed the Kalends of January, which represented the triumph of life over death. This whole season was called Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. The festival season was marked by much merrymaking. It is in ancient Rome that the tradition of the Mummers was born. The Mummers were groups of costumed singers and dancers who travelled from house to house entertaining their neighbours. From this, the Christmas tradition of caroling was born.
In northern Europe, many other traditions that we now consider part of Christian worship were begun long before the participants had ever heard of Christ. The pagans of northern Europe celebrated the their own winter solstice, known as Yule. Yule was symbolic of the pagan Sun God, Mithras, being born, and was observed on the shortest day of the year. As the Sun God grew and matured, the days became longer and warmer. It was customary to light a candle to encourage Mithras, and the sun, to reappear next year.
Huge Yule logs were burned in honour of the sun. The word Yule itself means "wheel," the wheel being a pagan symbol for the sun. Mistletoe was considered a sacred plant, and the custom of kissing under the mistletoe began as a fertility ritual. Holly berries were thought to be a food of the gods.
The tree is the one symbol that unites almost all the northern European winter solstices. Live evergreen trees were often brought into homes during the harsh winters as a reminder to inhabitants that soon their crops would grow again. Evergreen boughs were sometimes carried as totems of good luck and were often present at weddings, representing fertility. The Druids used the tree as a religious symbol, holding their sacred ceremonies while surrounding and worshipping huge trees.
In 350, Pope Julius I declared that Christ's birth would be celebrated on December 25. There is little doubt that he was trying to make it as painless as possible for pagan Romans (who remained a majority at that time) to convert to Christianity. The new religion went down a bit easier, knowing that their feasts would not be taken away from them.
Christmas (Christ-Mass) as we know it today, most historians agree, began in Germany, though Catholics and Lutherans still disagree about which church celebrated it first. The earliest record of an evergreen being decorated in a Christian celebration was in 1521 in the Alsace region of Germany.
Sudhir Srinivasan
B.Arch, MSc.CPM, Dip.ID, Dip.CAD, Dip.PM, Dip.LD
| Architect |
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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration:
Call For Articles:
http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68
http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585
****************************************************
VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/
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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
-Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190
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