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Sunday, July 7, 2013

Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: blog



'God chooses who He will punish and when He will punish' - for that reason criminals put on religious garbs and is almost never punished.  Examples of such criminals are plentiful in every religion.


On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 11:42 PM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

'God chooses who He will punish and when He will punish' is the ultimate stupidity of God-fearing religions. A similarly stupid and dangerous thought is that God would punish criminals in their afterlife or next life.
 
With these kinds of thoughts among the humans, there would be no need for any human society or state to have a judicial system. Combining these kinds of thoughts and the basics of logic would also make the believer to not complain against any kind of injustice committed by any human, society or government. All they have to do is pray to God, and believe that He will give the appropriate punishment sometime, somehow.
 
The real danger with these kinds of thoughts is that the world would be an unbearably suffering place for innocent humanity. The pretend-believers would continue to enjoy life on Earth by committing all kinds of crimes, while the innocent and foolish believers keep suffering and seeking justice from God. The suffering fools would not even have a basis to ask for witnessing the punishment, for that would be like not fully believing God.
 
I really feel sorry for this kind of believers.
 
SuBain
 
=======================================
On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
There are many theological theories to tell us what would happen to butcher Tikka Khan. Mr. Rahman has presented one. It is all matter of faith and clearly devoid of science. 

Hindu religion has the concepts of rebirth, hell, and boitarani river. I remember having seen in my childhood the framed scary pictures hanging from the walls of the rooms of many Hindu families' houses. The boitarani river has to be crossed using a narrow bridge. Below lies water full of ferocious aquatic animals like crocodiles. Tikka Khan will fail to cross the river and will be swallowed by crocodiles. 

In another picture you will see Chitragupta sitting and measuring your sins and good works. As punishment you may have your hands or tongue or breasts chopped.

 This fear factor works for ordinary people. There is reward factor too. Religion treats humans as not being capable of thinking rationally. 

Any way it is all matter of faith. 

Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 30, 2013, at 11:20 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
Where was the supernatural power when, for example, the butcher of East Bengal/Baluchistan, Tikka Khan, led the most heinous crimes on innocent humanity? Tikka actually led a life of royalty after the heinous crimes. There are plenty of other examples in the world where the supernatural power (God) has not punished serious criminals.

>>>>>>>>> There are few more "Set questions" pops up time to time trying to support atheist philosophy. It is a good question and a question preceded by some thoughts. Just wanted to share a point here that, Allah chose who He will punish and when He will punish. As per scriptures of Islam, punishment in afterlife is a guaranteed things for criminals in afterlife. Sometime Allah delivers some sort of preview in this world as well. Also sometimes Allah punish some good people for minor sins to free him/her from all sins before they met their Maker. So while this is a good question, Islam does NOT say punishment will be delivered in this life. Again just a clarification to those who are not familier with the concept of next life or ever lasting life in Islam.  I find it wonderful. He thought - Allah could not impose such an unfair rule on the poor people.
>>>>>>>> In the holy Qurán said, Allah does not put any burden on his creation that he/she cannot bear. If a rickshaw puller cannot fast because of some physical limitations but sincere in his faith, Allah may forgive him for it.
 (Asad) God does not burden any human being with more than he is well able to bear:

[ Source: Al Qurán 2:286 ]



But those who attain to faith and do righteous deeds - [and] We do not burden any human being with more than he is well able to bear - they are destined for paradise, therein to abide,

[ Source: Al Qurán
7:42 ]


(Asad) [In all these respects,] let him who has ample means spend in accordance with [15] his amplitude; and let him whose means of subsistence are scanty spend in accordance with what God has given him: God does not burden any human being with more than He has given him - [and it may well be that] God will grant, after hardship, ease. -

[ source: Al Qurán
65:7 ]
He was not a Namazi; he was breaking Roza in public. >>>>>>> This part may not be forgiven from Islamic stand point, for Muslims it is mandatory to offer Namaz/salat. Again people are asked to pray in bed if they are not able to get up for physical limitation. Just explaining where Islam stands on this. The Rickshow-puller was not showing any obedience to the supernatural power, even after the death of his daughter. He did not change at all even after the death of his daughter. >>>>>>> yes, it is not uncommon to see such people among us. Shalom! -----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Jun 29, 2013 1:34 pm Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: blog
 

The life of this Rickshaw-puller tells so many lessons, in many ways. He raised the question - how a poor day-laborer, who is pulling his cart in the scorching sun with all his might, can fast. How could Allah ask of a Rickshaw-puller to work without food and drinking water? He was asking all the right questions, and was making all the right decisions without going to a Mollah. I find it wonderful. He thought - Allah could not impose such an unfair rule on the poor people. He said – Allah will understand why he was not fasting, even though Mullahs will not. I find it fascinating.
 
He was not a Namazi; he was breaking Roza in public. I saw the death totally differently also. I thought – she must have eaten so much, for the first time in her life that her stomach could not tolerate.  But, the fact that even after such a loss, the Rickshaw-puller did not submit to supernatural power, and started to smoke in public again. He was thinking that - no one will rebuke him at least at that moment.  

I do not see this story as emphasizing the supernatural power at all. The Rickshow-puller was not showing any obedience to the supernatural power, even after the death of his daughter. He did not change at all even after the death of his daughter.

Jiten Roy
 

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: blog

 
What! Beautiful story! 'Sangraksan Karun' (archive/preserve it)! Really!!
 
No, this rubbish is not worth archiving in mukto-mona. A poor rickshaw-puller getting most severely punished by the supernatural power for a little deviation from morality! Where was the supernatural power when, for example, the butcher of East Bengal/Baluchistan, Tikka Khan, led the most heinous crimes on innocent humanity? Tikka actually led a life of royalty after the heinous crimes. There are plenty of other examples in the world where the supernatural power (God) has not punished serious criminals.
 
The thought of punishments/rewards by God, the supernatural power, is not rational. I would not encourage it. I would encourage punishments of crimes and shunning of immorality to be done by real human systems. I would encourage the human systems to do the right things.
 
SuBain
 
============================================

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 10:16 AM
Subject:




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Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')



How will religion will if people don't change first?

Jiten Roy



From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')

 
"The basic difference is what changed, people or religion? I am saying, people."
Interesting thought! If people are failing to see what is happening around them and how the big questions are being answered by ever curious humans, they as a group will stay behind in every field except in begetting. A God or a religious book would not be any consolation to a hungry individual or group. Change will come one way or another way with religious books becoming obsolete and impotent.
-SD

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')

 
First, I have corrected a little typo in my earlier comments.
 
I think the difference between my statements and Dr. Roy's statements are mostly in semantics. The basic difference is what changed, people or religion? I am saying, people. I think Christians, Jews and Hindus are more advanced because they do not follow (or feel inadequate for not following) a lot of the aspects of their religions.
 
Again, talking about the caste system, no seriously Hindu religious organization is advocating expunging it from the Geeta, nor are they talking about establishing institutes for giving equal opportunity to all Hindus for attaining Guna and Karma (virtue and deed) and for giving out certificates for who would be in what caste, based upon Guna and Karma. But, of course, people are changing, and now you see, for example, a lot of the so-called inter-caste marriages among the better educated Hindus. That means, Hindus are changing; I call it "people changing", not "religion changing."
 
SuBain
========================================
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')
 
S. Bain:"Actually, none of the stupidity and hatred has been 'expunged' from any religion."

Not a correct statement!

Have you seen or heard original texts of the Bible and the Jewish literature (Joshua and Torah)? I heard part of it on the radio. They are just as violent as some of the verses in the Quran. But, good thing is - Christians and Jews have recognized them as unacceptable and purged those violent texts from the the modern versions, meaning they are not trying to preserve those violent texts as God's words. This is different from Quran; it remained intact. That's what I meant.

Some orthodox Jewish people used to sacrifice young children to God; some Hindus used to perform human sacrifice in front of deities also. Haven't they given up those religious practices? Even though caste system is not yet eliminated completely, it's not as severe as it once was. You can't change peoples' mentality overnight; it will take time. Important thing is to recognize the wrong and to work for corrective actions.


Jiten Roy


From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')
 
Actually, none of the stupidity and hatred has been 'expunged' from any religion. For example, the caste system has not been 'expunged' from Hinduism; modern Hindus are gradually ignoring and abandoning it. More appropriately speaking, people of most religious backgrounds have been progressively ignoring and trashing the wrongs in their inherited religions.
 
Muslims are quite behind in that respect, and too many of them are actually proud of that. These sorry people think that their seventh century religion is perfect, and can be a 'complete code of life'. To them, there is nothing wrong with Islam, misinterpretations of it and taking it out of context are the problems. Even most of the moderates of that group are too brainwashed to look at their religion with a free mind.
 
Having said the above, I still would not be interested in criticizing Islam or its prophet. When an act of hatred is committed, I would seek correction and punishment for the criminal, as opposed to talking about which religious book might have instigated that crime. Blaming the religious book might even be interpreted as being soft on the criminal, and as absolving the criminal of his/her responsibility.
 
I think, if the civilized world stopped selective praises for religions, and was serious about punishing/correcting criminals, the world would be a much better place for all humans, including Muslims, to live in.
 
SuBain
 
=================================================
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')
 
.................I say - there are many wrong instructions in all scriptures. Many of those wrong instructions have been expunged from all other religions, but Islam.

When a religious scripture instructs soldiers to kill infidel civilian, especially young men, and take all women as the war booty after conquering a region – that's a wrong instruction,I would say, no matter who gave it. No context or explanation is needed to find this out.

Many Muslim soldiers still believe in this instruction, and they try to implement it in the warfare, even in a war between two Muslim regions. We have seen such implementation in Bangladesh, and also in Afghanistan, when Taliban forces raided the area under the control of the Northern Alliance; Taliban initiated a mass rape there.  The conquerors usually legitimize the scriptural instruction by declaring captured civilians as against Islam or infidels. This practice is mostly seen in the Muslim army.
 
Jiten Roy

===========================================
From: Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 12:36 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')
 
"Muhammd won in the short run, but in the long run the Umayyads slaughtered his descendants---"
 >>> You are absolutely right!
Fatima died about 6months after the death of her father. He had lot of mental sufferings after  Muhammd's death,  inflicted by fellow Muslims. Within 10 days of the death of Muhammad, 'Fadak' was confiscated by 1st Caliph Abu Bakar from Fatima /Ali.  Though Mohammad himself gifted it to his daughter. Muhammad owned it as "BOOTY" from the Jews of Khayber.  Abu Bakr even did not give her chance to dry her "tears" after her father's death!
Ali did not get power till 656 CE, a long 24 yrs after the death of Muhammad!   As soon as he got in power, the 1st civil war (Fitna) between Muslims started. He had the 1st war with Ayesha (mother in law).   During his reign (656-661) he had the following wars:
  1. Battle of the Camel (between Ali and Ayesha)  - December, 656 CE
  2. Battle of Siffin  (between Ali and Muwabiya Ibne Abu Sufyan) – July, 657 C ( Kharijites break away from Ali)
  3.  Battle of Nahrawan (Kharijites defeated by Ali)  - 658 C
  4. Conquest of Egypt – 659 CE 
Ali was brutally murdered (by a poisonous dragger) by one of the Kharijii on Januarry 661 CE.  His elder son Hasan was brutally murdered by poison (conspiracy of Muawiya Ibne Abu Sufian) in 670 CE. His 2nd son Hussian Ibne Ali was brutally murdred by soldiers of Yazid bin Muawiya bin Abu Sufian in the battle of Karbala on October 680 CE.  
 Within 48 years of death of Prophet Muhammad, all of his able adult male immediate family members were brutally killed by fellow Muslims.
       
On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
No in depth analysis is required to understand the events of the prophet hood of Muhammad.  Prior to the claim of meeting the archangel Gabriel, Muhammad was trained by a Nestorian Monk named Sergius/Bahira on religious stories.  After such claim, in course of over ten years, he got the loyalty of not more than seventy followers from a community of over five thousand.  Even that loyalty was bought out with wealth from different sources, e.g., those of Khadija and Uthman among others.  The verses revealed in Mecca were futile effort to earn recognition.  Then he migrated to Medina where he successfully used the Christians against the Jews, looted the caravans and Jewish enclaves, and collected enough wealth to hire mercenaries for his Mecca expedition.  After 'conquering' his dreamland Mecca, he was not sure of security to live in that place and preferred to live in Medina.  Ultimately he probably got killed by his wives, Ayesha and Hafsa, as the Shiite believe. 

Islam was the result of a tribal feud between the Umayyad and the Hashemite community.  Muhammd won in the short run, but in the long run the Umayyads slaughtered his descendants.  Not even his beloved daughter, Fatima, was spared.  A few months after the death of Muhammad, Fatima was burnt down with the house she lived in by the thugs who were close associates of the Prophet.
 
================================






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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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[mukto-mona] Abu Qatada deported from UK to stand trial in Jordan




"Home Secretary Theresa May: "I was deeply frustrated how long it took"

The man loved English hospitality but not the Westerners. He wanted stay and spread more venom but the English had finally enough of these characters. Good riddance!
-SD

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23213740

Abu Qatada deported from UK to stand trial in Jordan

The BBC's Yolande Knell in Amman: "He was rushed very quickly to the state security court"

Radical cleric Abu Qatada is being held in a high security jail near the Jordanian capital Amman, after being deported from the UK.
His plane left RAF Northolt at 02:46 BST for his home country, where he appeared in court to be charged with terror offences, which he denies.
Prime Minister David Cameron said he was "delighted" at his removal.
Abu Qatada was first arrested in the UK over alleged terror connections in 2001 and has fought deportation since 2005.
The Palestinian-Jordanian cleric's deportation was finally able to proceed after the UK and Jordan signed a treaty agreeing that evidence obtained through torture would not be used against him.
The BBC's Dominic Casciani describes the scene at RAF Northolt as the flight takes off
Home Secretary Theresa May said she was glad that the government's determination to remove him had been "vindicated".
"This dangerous man has now been removed from our shores to face the courts in his own country," she said.
She added that she wanted to streamline such deportation processes in future.
"I am also clear that we need to make sense of our human rights laws and remove the many layers of appeals available to foreign nationals we want to deport.
"We are taking steps - including through the new Immigration Bill - to put this right."
'Nothing off table'
Changes to the bill would affect cases like Abu Qatada's, she said, and also cases in which people facing deportation claim they have a right to respect for their private and family life in the UK, as set out in article eight of the European Convention on Human Rights.
Mrs May said she hoped to reform the convention, and would not rule out the possibility of the UK withdrawing from it altogether.
"Nothing is off the table," she said.
"We're working on that at the moment," the home secretary told the BBC, adding that the Conservative manifesto for the 2015 general election would "set out clearly what we would do in relation to these issues".
Abu Qatada was accompanied on the flight of around five hours by six people from Jordan, comprising three security officials, a psychologist, a medical examiner and his Jordanian lawyer, the BBC understands.

Analysis

There was tight security as Abu Qatada arrived back in Jordan - where he grew up - for the first time in more than 20 years. He was immediately driven from Marka airbase to the state security court - a journey that would have taken just a few minutes.
While the cleric has become a household name in the UK, when I did an informal survey in Amman remarkably few people had heard of him. Some people who had thought he should not have been sent back here.
"I'm a Muslim but I don't like extremists. I wish he hadn't come," an old man said. "Why should the UK export its problems to us? He was resident in London for so many years, you should have tried him if he's guilty of anything," added another.
One woman believed Abu Qatada was misunderstood. She told me the preacher was "very good for Islam" and that "his followers will be very glad for him to be back."
The 53-year-old had been held at Belmarsh prison in south-east London, from where a convoy of three police vehicles left at midnight.
After arriving at Jordan's Marka military airport he was driven in a green SUV, escorted by a 12-car convoy, to the sealed off state security court in Amman.
Military prosecutors charged him with conspiracy to carry out terrorist acts - relating to a plot to bomb American and Israeli tourists during Jordan's millennium celebrations.
The cleric was remanded in custody for 15 days and taken to eastern Jordan's Muwaqqar prison, a judicial official said.
After the hearing his lawyer Tayseer Diab said: "The attorney general interrogated him today, and he directed a series of accusations towards him - he accused him of conspiracy to take part in terrorist acts.
"My client denied all the allegations, and he asserts that his return to Jordan was out of his own free will, in order to be with his family. The procedure was carried out well, and he received good treatment."
Speaking outside the court, Abu Qatada's father Mahmoud said: "His spirits are high and the officials are good people - they might allow him to obtain bail after a few days."
BBC home affairs correspondent Dominic Casciani said Home Office officials were "incredibly relieved" after "one of the most tense weeks in the department's recent history".
"They were so concerned about the possibility that the cleric could change his mind at the last minute that they were leaving nothing to chance."
Home Secretary Theresa May: "I was deeply frustrated how long it took"
Speaking on BBC Breakfast, Mrs May said she had been provided with updates on the deportation throughout the night.
She said she had been "as frustrated as the public" about the estimated £1.7m cost and length of time it had taken to remove Abu Qatada, but that people would welcome the end result.
She said she did not have any concerns about the treatment of Abu Qatada in Jordan.
She said: "The treaty we've signed ensures that there are proper processes of exchange of evidence and will insure the treatment of Abu Qatada and others deported to Jordan."
Asked on Sky News whether Abu Qatada's wife and children would have the right to stay in the UK, Mrs May said they would have to decide what they want their future to be before the government gets involved.
Mr Cameron criticised a "caravan of lawyers" over the case, adding that it had "made my blood boil that this man who has no right to be in our country, who is a threat to our country and that it took so long and it was so difficult to deport him, but we've done it, he is back in Jordan that is excellent news."
Abu Qatada, whose real name is Omar Othman, was granted asylum in the UK in 1994 but the Security Service came to view him as a threat as his views hardened.

Analysis

In deporting Abu Qatada, Theresa May has succeeded where many other home secretaries failed - and she is trying to press home the advantage.
The government intends to change the law to ensure fewer deportation appeals. But Conservatives want to go further and alter the UK's relationship with the European Court of Human Rights.
They cannot do that in government because the Liberal Democrats would stop them. So they are promising the policy - the details of which are yet to be announced - for their manifesto.
And Theresa May, who many Tories suspect fancies herself as a future party leader, is likely to be one of its more prominent champions.
Richard Reid, the would-be mid-Atlantic shoe bomber, and Zacarias Moussaoui, both jailed for involvement in terrorism, are said to have sought religious advice from him.
The cleric's sermons were also found in a flat in the German city of Hamburg used by some of those involved in 9/11.
He vowed to fight the UK's 2005 decision to deport him to Jordan to face retrial over bomb plot allegations - setting in motion an eight-year legal battle.
The dispute continued until May this year, when the cleric accepted that his right to a fair trial there was protected by the new treaty between Jordan and the UK.
Labour's shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper welcomed the deportation and backed Mrs May's call for a more streamlined process in future.
She said: "The home secretary has been right to get further guarantees from Jordan and we should welcome the series of agreements from the Jordanian government too.
"We must ensure that delays like this do not last for so long in future and that the system is reformed to make it faster."
Keith Vaz, chairman of Parliament's Home Affairs Select Committee, questioned why the government had not started work on a treaty with Jordan at an earlier stage in the process.
"The home secretary's legal advisers will have questions to answer as to why they didn't conceive of this scheme earlier which would have prevented a cost to the taxpayer of £1.7m."
 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



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Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: Fwd: About fire on QURAN at Bytul Mokarram



I Agee. I made similar request almost 5 years ago and arranged a particular lobby firm to meet decision makers. They spent money and submitted campaign action Program plus financing requirement also. Their price was reasonable also. We did not pick them. Thanks

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 7, 2013, at 12:49 PM, "Jalal Uddin" <rumi_fin@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

Dear All
 
Last few years I have been talking to various  Government officials  to appoint some International Public relation  firm on behalf of the Government for formal International  and national Publicity. As an ex-student of Chartered Marketing I am definitely confirm about its optimum output. Now  I came to know that BNP already using London based PR Company BTP...for all of their International PR & Campaign. http://www.btpadvisers.com/what-we-do/  .  I hope Government will be able to understand their political loop-whole & will initiate the strategy as soon as possible.
 
Requested by
 
Jalal Uddin Rumi
Information & Research Secretary
US Awami League. 
 
 
 

From: Jalal Uddin <rumi_fin@yahoo.com>
To: abdul momen <abdul_momen@hotmail.com>; Bolon UN <bolonhome@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2013 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: [mukto-mona] Fw: Fwd: About fire on QURAN at Bytul Mokarram [1 Attachment]
Dear All
 
GSP suspension in Bangladesh has been requested by   AFL-CIO. Communicating to AFL_CIO would be much appropriate than communicating to US GOVT. They are working as a pressure group for this type of restriction. Individually everybody  or collectively we can start our effort  to send  the request for the withdrawal of the pressure towards US Govt.http://www.aflcio.org/
 
From: abdul momen <abdul_momen@hotmail.com>
To: Bolon UN <bolonhome@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2013 12:11 PM
Subject: Fwd: [mukto-mona] Fw: Fwd: About fire on QURAN at Bytul Mokarram [1 Attachment]

Sent from my iPhone
Begin forwarded message:
From: Muhammad Ali <man1k195709@yahoo.com>Date: July 4, 2013 10:25:29 AM EDTTo: undisclosed recipients: ;Subject: [mukto-mona] Fw: Fwd: About fire on QURAN at Bytul Mokarram [1 Attachment]Reply-To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
 

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Musharraf Hossain <musha.pcdc@gmail.com>
To: manik195709@yahoo.com
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2013 7:35 AM
Subject: Fwd: About fire on QURAN at Bytul Mokarram



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Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')



"The basic difference is what changed, people or religion? I am saying, people."
Interesting thought! If people are failing to see what is happening around them and how the big questions are being answered by ever curious humans, they as a group will stay behind in every field except in begetting. A God or a religious book would not be any consolation to a hungry individual or group. Change will come one way or another way with religious books becoming obsolete and impotent.
-SD

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')

 
First, I have corrected a little typo in my earlier comments.
 
I think the difference between my statements and Dr. Roy's statements are mostly in semantics. The basic difference is what changed, people or religion? I am saying, people. I think Christians, Jews and Hindus are more advanced because they do not follow (or feel inadequate for not following) a lot of the aspects of their religions.
 
Again, talking about the caste system, no seriously Hindu religious organization is advocating expunging it from the Geeta, nor are they talking about establishing institutes for giving equal opportunity to all Hindus for attaining Guna and Karma (virtue and deed) and for giving out certificates for who would be in what caste, based upon Guna and Karma. But, of course, people are changing, and now you see, for example, a lot of the so-called inter-caste marriages among the better educated Hindus. That means, Hindus are changing; I call it "people changing", not "religion changing."
 
SuBain
========================================
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')
 
S. Bain:"Actually, none of the stupidity and hatred has been 'expunged' from any religion."

Not a correct statement!

Have you seen or heard original texts of the Bible and the Jewish literature (Joshua and Torah)? I heard part of it on the radio. They are just as violent as some of the verses in the Quran. But, good thing is - Christians and Jews have recognized them as unacceptable and purged those violent texts from the the modern versions, meaning they are not trying to preserve those violent texts as God's words. This is different from Quran; it remained intact. That's what I meant.

Some orthodox Jewish people used to sacrifice young children to God; some Hindus used to perform human sacrifice in front of deities also. Haven't they given up those religious practices? Even though caste system is not yet eliminated completely, it's not as severe as it once was. You can't change peoples' mentality overnight; it will take time. Important thing is to recognize the wrong and to work for corrective actions.


Jiten Roy


From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')
 
Actually, none of the stupidity and hatred has been 'expunged' from any religion. For example, the caste system has not been 'expunged' from Hinduism; modern Hindus are gradually ignoring and abandoning it. More appropriately speaking, people of most religious backgrounds have been progressively ignoring and trashing the wrongs in their inherited religions.
 
Muslims are quite behind in that respect, and too many of them are actually proud of that. These sorry people think that their seventh century religion is perfect, and can be a 'complete code of life'. To them, there is nothing wrong with Islam, misinterpretations of it and taking it out of context are the problems. Even most of the moderates of that group are too brainwashed to look at their religion with a free mind.
 
Having said the above, I still would not be interested in criticizing Islam or its prophet. When an act of hatred is committed, I would seek correction and punishment for the criminal, as opposed to talking about which religious book might have instigated that crime. Blaming the religious book might even be interpreted as being soft on the criminal, and as absolving the criminal of his/her responsibility.
 
I think, if the civilized world stopped selective praises for religions, and was serious about punishing/correcting criminals, the world would be a much better place for all humans, including Muslims, to live in.
 
SuBain
 
=================================================
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')
 
.................I say - there are many wrong instructions in all scriptures. Many of those wrong instructions have been expunged from all other religions, but Islam.

When a religious scripture instructs soldiers to kill infidel civilian, especially young men, and take all women as the war booty after conquering a region – that's a wrong instruction,I would say, no matter who gave it. No context or explanation is needed to find this out.

Many Muslim soldiers still believe in this instruction, and they try to implement it in the warfare, even in a war between two Muslim regions. We have seen such implementation in Bangladesh, and also in Afghanistan, when Taliban forces raided the area under the control of the Northern Alliance; Taliban initiated a mass rape there.  The conquerors usually legitimize the scriptural instruction by declaring captured civilians as against Islam or infidels. This practice is mostly seen in the Muslim army.
 
Jiten Roy

===========================================
From: Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 12:36 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')
 
"Muhammd won in the short run, but in the long run the Umayyads slaughtered his descendants---"
 >>> You are absolutely right!
Fatima died about 6months after the death of her father. He had lot of mental sufferings after  Muhammd's death,  inflicted by fellow Muslims. Within 10 days of the death of Muhammad, 'Fadak' was confiscated by 1st Caliph Abu Bakar from Fatima /Ali.  Though Mohammad himself gifted it to his daughter. Muhammad owned it as "BOOTY" from the Jews of Khayber.  Abu Bakr even did not give her chance to dry her "tears" after her father's death!
Ali did not get power till 656 CE, a long 24 yrs after the death of Muhammad!   As soon as he got in power, the 1st civil war (Fitna) between Muslims started. He had the 1st war with Ayesha (mother in law).   During his reign (656-661) he had the following wars:
  1. Battle of the Camel (between Ali and Ayesha)  - December, 656 CE
  2. Battle of Siffin  (between Ali and Muwabiya Ibne Abu Sufyan) – July, 657 C ( Kharijites break away from Ali)
  3.  Battle of Nahrawan (Kharijites defeated by Ali)  - 658 C
  4. Conquest of Egypt – 659 CE 
Ali was brutally murdered (by a poisonous dragger) by one of the Kharijii on Januarry 661 CE.  His elder son Hasan was brutally murdered by poison (conspiracy of Muawiya Ibne Abu Sufian) in 670 CE. His 2nd son Hussian Ibne Ali was brutally murdred by soldiers of Yazid bin Muawiya bin Abu Sufian in the battle of Karbala on October 680 CE.  
 Within 48 years of death of Prophet Muhammad, all of his able adult male immediate family members were brutally killed by fellow Muslims.
       
On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
No in depth analysis is required to understand the events of the prophet hood of Muhammad.  Prior to the claim of meeting the archangel Gabriel, Muhammad was trained by a Nestorian Monk named Sergius/Bahira on religious stories.  After such claim, in course of over ten years, he got the loyalty of not more than seventy followers from a community of over five thousand.  Even that loyalty was bought out with wealth from different sources, e.g., those of Khadija and Uthman among others.  The verses revealed in Mecca were futile effort to earn recognition.  Then he migrated to Medina where he successfully used the Christians against the Jews, looted the caravans and Jewish enclaves, and collected enough wealth to hire mercenaries for his Mecca expedition.  After 'conquering' his dreamland Mecca, he was not sure of security to live in that place and preferred to live in Medina.  Ultimately he probably got killed by his wives, Ayesha and Hafsa, as the Shiite believe. 

Islam was the result of a tribal feud between the Umayyad and the Hashemite community.  Muhammd won in the short run, but in the long run the Umayyads slaughtered his descendants.  Not even his beloved daughter, Fatima, was spared.  A few months after the death of Muhammad, Fatima was burnt down with the house she lived in by the thugs who were close associates of the Prophet.
 
================================




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****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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