Banner Advertiser

Saturday, November 19, 2011

[ALOCHONA] Our economy better than many: PM



Our economy better than many: PM


http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=210843

Prime minister Sheikh Hasina has rebutted opposition claims that the economy is in a tailspin. "I want to tell you that the economic situation has not become critical. We have managed to keep it running. We are better placed given the world economic recession," she said on Saturday.

Hasina said she had instructed the Power Division to cut supplies for two days to those who wrote newspaper articles questioning the need to generate power by subsidising the sector. "They will write in the comfort of air-conditioned rooms using the power we generate. Let them feel what it feels like without power for two days."

http://bdnews24.com/details.php?id=211654&cid=2


__._,_.___


[Disclaimer: ALOCHONA Management is not liable for information contained in this message. The author takes full responsibility.]
To unsubscribe/subscribe, send request to alochona-owner@egroups.com




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?--false propaganda against religion and religious people



Muslims did not preserve the Quran perfectly either.  What they preserved more or less accurately is the Osman's compilation.  Six other compilations by the same committee were there to be burnt.  One of the allegations for which Osman was assassinated was the burning of the holy Quran.  Conspicuously, Ali, deemed most savant of them all even by the Prophet, was not allowed in the committee formed by Abu Bakr. How many years did the committee need to compile it?  Well... Abu Bakr was Caliph for two years, Omar for ten and Osman for another twelve; that means the compilation took longer than revelation!  Only a believer would call it authentic, no genuine student of history would.


 Please don't even participate in a theological debate with an ignorance deep enough to drown you.

On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 11:42 PM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 

As usual, Mr. Q. Rahman is wrong on many aspects. 

>>>>>>>> Please specify if I misquoted anything.I'll correct it and learn from you. Anyway I am not going to personal attack. I'll try to replace incorrect information with correct one with verifiable references.

Jesus was a rebellious Jew.


>>>>>>>> He only did what God asked him to do. He only added another "Phase" of revelation (Wahi in Arabic)  which emphasized God's love for people. As far as laws of OT was concern, Jesus honored them and did not say anything against them.


17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy , but to fulfill . 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass , one jot or one tittle shall in no wisepass from the law, till all be fulfilled . 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

[ Source: The holy Bible Matthew 5:17-19 (King James Version) ]

The verse quoted above confirms what I said earlier about Jesus son of Mary as per Christian scripture. If we take a closer look at the concept of God given by Moses and Jesus (PBUT), we'll discover that, it is exactly the SAME message. No changes!!


"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD!" (Deut. 6:4)

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. ( << Mark 12:29 >>)



I feel member Das quoted someone here. HOWEVER it was out of context. During the time of Jesus son of Mary his people (Bani Israel or children of Israel) were very focused on rituals. Jesus did honored laws and rituals. At the same time he introduced compassion to his people. He was misunderstood by Jewish people and they thought he was blasphemed our God and attacked him. My last post contained clear verses from the Bible that, Jesus was ALWAYS obedient to God ( Like all messengers of God!).

Therefore what you tried to imply by  "Jesus was a rebellious Jew." is incorrect as per Christian scripture. Albeit some modern Christians want to say this to justify eating pork, installing pagan infused trinity concept to Christendom. If you strictly follow what the Bible says about Jesus, you will see the word "Trinity" is NOT part of it. You will also not see any sentence clearly supporting divinity of Jesus son of Mary. As I mentioned earlier the concept of trinity was adopted around 350 years AFTER Jesus left us ( In a meeting, NOT by God's order).

Jesus only introduced new revelation from God. He stood up against the rabbinical institution but strictly followed God's orders.

The trinity in Christianity is represented by Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.  Father is the Lord, Son is Jesus aka Sun-god, and the holy Ghost is Sophia/Venus/Shekinah etc


>>>>>>>>>> I am aware of what trinity consists of. The most popular one goes by Father, son and holy ghost. HOWEVER the Sophia/Venus theory is not known to mainstream Christians or present in the any Bible that I am aware of.

Gabriel has no role here.  Gabriel appeared a bit late in monotheism.  He was absent from the time of Abraham, Isaac, to that of Moses.  All of these messengers talk directly to God(s) named El-Saddai(God with breasts), El-Elyon, Elohim, Yahweh etc


>>>>>>>>> IF you read the Bible carefully, you will see Gabriel was part of the revelation process for long time. You are incorrect in saying that, Gabriel "Appeared a bit late in monotheism".

Let me share what Bible says...


while I was still speaking in prayer, then the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision previously, came to me in my extreme weariness about the time of the evening offering [3:00 PM in the afternoon]. And he gave me instruction and talked with me, and said, "O Daniel, I have now come forth to give you insight with understanding. At the beginning of your supplications (prayer) the command was issued, and I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed; so give heed to the message and gain understanding of the vision

(Daniel 9:21-23 [NASB]).


Daniel, just like Muhammad, claimed that the Archangel Gabriel visited him to give God's words to him. Christians accept Daniel as being a prophet. In the New Testament, Jesus spoke of Daniel and called him "Daniel the prophet," as follows:
… spoken of through Daniel the prophet (Matthew 24:15 [NASB])

For the Christian faith, it is important that we distinguish between Daniel, a prophet of the Old Testament as compared to the New Testament characters, Zechariah and Mary. The purpose of the Archangel Gabriel's visit to both Zechariah and Mary is to announce to each that a child would be born.
  • For Zechariah, the angel appeared to him in the temple to announce the coming birth of John the Baptist (refer to Luke 1:5-24, 57-80).

  • For Mary, the angel foretold that she would conceive Jesus by the Holy Spirit and that Jesus is the Messiah foretold by the Old Testament prophets (refer to Luke 1:25-56).

As you can see both Mary ( Mother of Jesus) and prophet Zechariah were there BEFORE Jesus.
So your assumptions are NOT correct.


According to Michael Servetus, Son and Slave were synonymous words in the time of Jesus.  He was burnt at stake for such heretic ideas by Christians.

>>>>>>>>>> As a Muslim, I have no problem in accepting such an idea. Christians however was busy making Jesus something was not!! [ Please re-read my last post showing the verses from the Bible to support my explanation].

According to Islam Jesus was borne by Mary, the sister of Moses.  I suppose Mary gave birth to him when over a thousand years old



>>>>>>>>> I have explained this bit before!!

Actually the verse talks about Aaron not Moses!!

They said: "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought! "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!"
[Qur'an 19:27-28]


Do understand as per Islam, this is NOT a literal verse. For example when we say Sheikh Mujibur Rahman is father of our nation, we do NOT mean it literally. Rather symbolically. There are other verses of the Qur'an which are symbolically ( description of the heavens for one!) not literally. Only people who do not understand the message of Islam takes them literally. Also Arabic speakers uses the words like sons and daughters this way. For example, all people of the earth are also known as Children of Adam (Bani Adam). Jews are known as Children of Israel (Bani Israel). If you take such expression literately, you will misunderstand the message. To read what Qur'an said in this verse and around it, please click here.

If you read the Bible or the Qur'an, it is easy to see. Once you read it in context, it is obvious.


But most interestingly, Jesus has a pagan Persian source.  Mithra, the Persian Sun-god was borne by Anahita, the Goddess of Wisdom in Avesta.  In later days Anahita became Virgin Mary and Mithra became Jesus.  The story does not end here.  Mithra was said to be wedded to the evening star, apparently polyandrous to the ancient sky watchers.  The Evening Star had become Mary Magdalene in Christianity.

>>>>>>>>>>>> These are wild eyed assumptions and not accepted by any mainstream Christians. However as I stated in my last post that, modern Christians (Followers of Paul) did mix some pagan rituals (Sunday worshipping) and history to Jesus. It is important to note that, as per Christian scripture (OT,NT) Jesus did not approve such mix ups.

It is a vast topic, maybe we can leave it for some other time and I'll happy to offer clear verifiable sources with my explanation Inshallah!!


For any follower of Islam, the holy Quran compiled by Osman is the highest source of knowledge.  The holy verses had blinded them.  May Allah help them out of ignorance.


>>>>>>> Thank you. Thank God that, despite many problems Muslims were able to preserve that Qur'an properly. I only use English translations (Most popular ones) to make it easy for readers to understand. As most members do not speak Arabic.

We are discussing these topics to remove ignorance from people.

Peace!!

---qar


-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 19, 2011 8:56 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?--false propaganda against religion and religious people

 
As usual, Mr. Q. Rahman is wrong on many aspects.  Jesus was a rebellious Jew.  The trinity in Christianity is represented by Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.  Father is the Lord, Son is Jesus aka Sun-god, and the holy Ghost is Sophia/Venus/Shekinah etc.  Gabriel has no role here.  Gabriel appeared a bit late in monotheism.  He was absent from the time of Abraham, Isaac, to that of Moses.  All of these messengers talk directly to God(s) named El-Saddai(God with breasts), El-Elyon, Elohim, Yahweh etc. According to Michael Servetus, Son and Slave were synonymous words in the time of Jesus.  He was burnt at stake for such heretic ideas by Christians.  According to Islam Jesus was borne by Mary, the sister of Moses.  I suppose Mary gave birth to him when over a thousand years old.  But most interestingly, Jesus has a pagan Persian source.  Mithra, the Persian Sun-god was borne by Anahita, the Goddess of Wisdom in Avesta.  In later days Anahita became Virgin Mary and Mithra became Jesus.  The story does not end here.  Mithra was said to be wedded to the evening star, apparently polyandrous to the ancient sky watchers.  The Evening Star had become Mary Magdalene in Christianity.

For any follower of Islam, the holy Quran compiled by Osman is the highest source of knowledge.  The holy verses had blinded them.  May Allah help them out of ignorance.

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 3:47 PM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
There are about four billion Christians, yet modern scholars believe Jesus as a fiction created by St. Paul.

>>>>>>>>> I feel it is an honest misunderstanding YOU have about what western scholars are saying. I also feel most of what we see in "Modern Christianity" is mostly work of Paul. However that does NOT mean Jesus son of Mary (PBUH) did not exist!!

People who feel Jesus did not exist are a TINY faction of the scholars of religion. Majority think Jesus did exist BUT the message of the Bible was distorted by Paul and other followers and some of the pagan customs from Europe were merged as well.

One good example would be the weekly religious holiday. Jesus was born among Jewish people and like a good Jew, he observed Sabath day on Saturdays. HOWEVER when Christianity traveled to Europe, the religious holiday was on Sunday in honor of "Sun god". So authentic custom was thrown away and a pagan custom replaced authentic teaching of Jesus son of Mary (PBUH).

Another visible example was Jesus son of Mary (PBUH) did not ear pork as it was prohibited for Jewish people but most followers of Jesus cannot resists juicy pork chops!!!

So Like a good Jew, Jesus son of Mary (PBUH) kept up the Kosher laws but "Modern Christians" do not care for it. Among scholars of Christianity, the modern version of Christianity is known as Pauline Christianity.

One last one ( I can write this for months!!). The "Foundation" of modern Christianity is a theory of "Trinity". Which sees Jesus, Gabriel and God as one entity. However if you read the Bible, you will not find the word 'Trinity" in it!!

It was invented almost 350 years AFTER Jesus son of Mary (PBUH) left us. [ Source: Wiki]

If you read King James Bible (Most popular version of the Bible), you will see that, Jesus son of Mary (PBUH) spoke against trinity but MOST Christians received wrong message (Originated from pagan Euro culture) about him. I'll quote a few verses from the Bible here.....


I am Perfectly Obedient to God




Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever he does, that the Son does likewise."
(Jesus quoted by John 5:19)

"For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me."
(Jesus quoted by John 6:38)

So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me."
(Jesus quoted by John 7:16)

So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he, and I do nothing on my own authority but speak thus as the Father taught me. And he who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what is pleasing to Him."
(Jesus quoted by John 8:28-29)

"For I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak. And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has bidden me."
(Jesus quoted by John 12:49-50)
 




As a hobby I spend good amount of time learning about history of Christianity, so if you have more questions about it, feel free to ask.


Shalom!!




-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:37 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?--false propaganda against religion and religious people

 
There are about four billion Christians, yet modern scholars believe Jesus as a fiction created by St. Paul.

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 2:26 AM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
Actually there are plenty of scholars on Islam who devoted their whole lives in the process. Many of them comes from non-Islamic background as well. In fact proving Muhammad never existed would be hardest thing to do. Since out of nowhere there are 1.7 billion followers of Islam who claims to follow Muhammad (PBUH) and his Creator.

it is also a fact that, Muhammad (PBUH) only finished God's revelation to humanity that started thousands of years BEFORE Muhammad (PBUH) was born. So Muhammad (PBUH) only completed the process. Even if you look into the Bible (OT and NT) you will see that the fundamental message was the same. I'll explain my points with some CREDIBLE and VERIFIABLE sources.


As per Islam, it says God sent us only ONE religion.  So what we call Judaism or Christianity or Islam are continuation of the SAME message.

Any Muslim (With little knowledge of scripture) will tell you that, from Adam to Muhammad (PBUH) all messengers of God came with same message. Sumbit and obey one unseen God.

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD!" (Deut. 6:4) [ This is the basics of Judaism]

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. ( << Mark 12:29 >>)

"There is no true god but God, and Muhammad is the Messenger (Prophet) of God," ( First article of faith in Islam)

 

 Most of the prophets/messesngers/navi (Judaic term) were sent to the "Tribe of Israel". Thus Bible rightfully states (Via Jesus son of Mary)

But he answered and said , I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


  

Making Chrsitianity an universal faith was later development NOT what Jesus practiced [ According to the message of Bible]. During his lifetime Jesus NEVER preached to any non-Jews.

Islam confirmed all previous revelations and all previously chosen people [ Most of them were Jewish]. At the same time started as an "Universal solution for the humanity". At the last part of prophet Muhammad (PBUH) life God revelaed

.....This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah(God) is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.


Therefore, Muslims feel that the revelation completed by the last messenger of God Muhammad (PBUH). Who came with the Final revelation from our Creator.

If you are interested, you may read the following books as credible sources to learn about Muhammad (PBUH).



<> An Oxford scholar who became interested in Islam after he went to Egypt to research. Wrote this wonderful book in the last prophet (PBUH).



<> A Swiss born Scholar of Islam of our time. Often invited by top universities of the world.



<> Mr. Mubarakpuri was an Indian who wrote this book in Arabic which won the best book award in the world wide contest. He beat native Arabic speaks and won this prestigious award with this wonderful book. A great read from verified historical sources.


If you need more "Help" to understand the FACTS about prophet Muhammad (PBUH). All of the sources I shared comes from scholars who are known all over the world. If you have any specific concerns, feel free to ask. If required, I'll give you more sources and names of scholars who can be reached as well.


"Show (thy) gratitude to Allah." Any who is (so) grateful does so to the profit of his own soul; but if any is ungrateful, verily Allah is free of all wants, worthy of all praise.

(Quran 31:12)


-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:11 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?--false propaganda against religion and religious people

 
Sorry, no source is credible.  History is a bunk created on many 'sources'.  There is neo-muslim German Professor, named Sven Kallish, who says, Muhammad might be a total myth.  But the portrayal of the prophet by the people who concocted Islam is less than acceptable by the contemporary moral standard, won't you agree?  Even the angels geocentric planets are in reality.  Judge the statement by yourself.

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 1:31 AM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
Read the dialogues between the prophet and his wives.

>>>>>>>> I have read fair amount of books on prophet Muhammad (PBUH). So kindly share the SOURCE of YOUR information. Like the web site you picked this from will help. So Far I find this as myth by those who do not have understanding of Islam. But I am always interested to learn new things. So give me credible sources for this "Myth".

Thanks.


-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 13, 2011 8:08 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?--false propaganda against religion and religious people

 
Read the dialogues between the prophet and his wives.

On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 1:37 PM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 

Mr. Hannan is a registered member of Jamaat, and a member of Majlis.  He is a shameless advocate of Jamaat politics in the forum with very shallow knowledge on almost everything.

>>>>>>>>> Member Das, if you do not agree with Mr. Hannan, attack his ideas. When you get into personal attacks and attack against religion, it makes YOU look very bad. Jammat's position during 1971 was wrong from many sides (Immoral, unethical, against Islam etc). It is one of the easiest task to criticize that, please try that using logic and solid data (If that is what you are aiming for!!).

Not even Ayesha, the young wife of the prophet believed in the existence of Gabriel. 

>>>>>>>>>>> I have never heard this crap before. Please share your sources!!!!


About the comparative  moral standard of the atheist with theist, it suffices to point out that you would never find out an atheist coveting the wife of his own foster son.  An atheist is always guided by his conscience, and does not invoke God as the cause and solution of all his problems.


>>>>>>>>> If you do not understand this, just ask. One of us will explain it to you. Just like I am disgusted by the low lives who are saying bad things about Dr. Zafar Iqbal, I think this is below civilized discussion when you insult our holy prophet without any knowledge of what happened. He is not around us, so he is the easiest target???


Atheists have their fair share of child molesters, perverts, rapists, murderers and every kind of idiots you can think of. Atheists are just like  rest of us ------HUMAN BEINGS!!

There are good people and bad people in every communities. Muslims and atheists are NO different in that aspect.


Hope reason and logic guide you in future discussion (Instead of blind rage against Islam).

Peace!!

-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 12, 2011 8:57 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?--false propaganda against religion and religious people

 
Mr. Hannan is a registered member of Jamaat, and a member of Majlis.  He is a shameless advocate of Jamaat politics in the forum with very shallow knowledge on almost everything.  With a single track mind like his, one should look for other forums than mukto mona.  Even communism is religion, and was fastest growing in the last century.  Any form of regimentation is bound to accompany such ills as religion does.  There is no reason to believe that any of these so called holy men or prophets had any connection with the 'creator' of the Universe.  They believed in the geocentric model, gave more importance to the planets than the stars.  Planets were Gods which later turned into angels.  Note that there are seven planets/archangels living in seven heavens.  Not even Ayesha, the young wife of the prophet believed in the existence of Gabriel. 

About the comparative  moral standard of the atheist with theist, it suffices to point out that you would never find out an atheist coveting the wife of his own foster son.  An atheist is always guided by his conscience, and does not invoke God as the cause and solution of all his problems.

On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 6:14 AM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
  • Mr. Hannan is married to Jamaati ideaology and politics with unbreakable commitment. He is in the Mukto-mona forum as an amabassador or publicity secretary of Jamaat-i-Islam. That's why whatever he says, whatever he quotes, or whatever he refers to is a means to nakedly support Jamaati politics, idealogy, and activities---both past and present.
  • Being a retired Secretary of the Bangladesh govt., he must be old enough to have witnessed with his own eyes the barbaric and heinous crimes Pakistani army and rightist antiliberation political parties including Jamaati Islam committed during the ten months in 1971. But to justfy their mischiefs he again and again refers to Sharmila Bose's cooked, motivated, and fictitious data.
  • Everybody knows that Maududi was given death sentence which was subsequently commuted by Saudi pressure. A small group in Bangladesh once tried excommunicate the Ahmadiyas from Islam. 
  •  Mr. Hannan is wrong: MQM is not responsible for killing of Shiites by radical Sunni groups. What is happening in Iraq? Does MQM have hand in their too? Mr. Hannan, should you not term Maududi a religious bigot when he incited attacks on the innocent Ahmadiyas in Pakistan? Can you say who these religious bigots are who are suicide-bombing the innocent musollis when they are saying their prayers in the mosque?
  • I agree the barbaric attacks on innocent people are hated by 99% Muslims. But do the Jamaatis fall into the category comprised of the remaining 1%? People will have the right to ask you this question when they find out that you guys do not see any crimes committed by your people in Bangladesh during 1971.     
  • Killing has not been monopolized by religious fanatics, secularists (example, Stalin) have also large share in it---nobody will disagree to that. But why are you hesitant in accepting the fact that innumerable lives have been taken in the name of religion?  
  • I agree most of the people of religions are good people. But you also have to agree that most of the non-believers, skeptics, and agnostics are also good people. Bad guys are those who "sell" religion or an idealogy for capturin or retaining power. They indoctrinate innocent cadres committed to killing and torturing. Obviously, Jamaat-i-Islam is one of them. You can also pick a cruel communist dictator as an example from the other end of the scale.     

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?--false propaganda against religion and religious people
 
Maulana Maududi was given the death sentence by the Ayub regime for the crime.  But he was later pardonned by external pressure.

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 1:00 PM, S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com> wrote:
 
 
As regards Subimol Chakrabarty sahib's points, followers of Maududi did not kill any Ahmadi( Pl see Munir Commision report on punjan disturbances)
As regards 1971 events, many groups killed each other ( read Sharmila Bose's dead Reckoning)
Shia Sunni violence is created by secular political elements like MQM and some religious bigot's .They are hated by 99 percent people.
Again read my earlier submission" Respected all,
Atheists and secularists (who believe in naturalism and rationalism only and who deny role of religion in public life) are more menace to humanity, morality, civilization as history shows. Most of the wars including first and second great wars were waged by them.
Most of the people of religions are good people. Many of them are misguided by secular political leaders or some ignorant and aggressive religious bigots.
Religious people of all religions should fight these exploiters and stand for humanity, morality and social welfare."
 
 
Shah Abdul Hannan
From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of qar
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:48 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
 
Killing of the Ahmediyas by the followers of Mowdoodi in Pakistan, killing and raping of freedom loving Bengalis in 1971, bombing of mosques to kill innocent Shiites in Pakistan and Iraq and somewhere else----are all these the acts by the secularists?
 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are right these were acts of half educated idiots who do not understand the core message of Islam.

However atheist people have done more murdering of innocents than any religious people. Stalin, Mao (Of china) etc done their part in killing anyone who had a different point of view.
-----Original Message-----
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 10, 2011 6:37 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
Killing of the Ahmediyas by the followers of Mowdoodi in Pakistan, killing and raping of freedom loving Bengalis in 1971, bombing of mosques to kill innocent Shiites in Pakistan and Iraq and somewhere else----are all these the acts by the secularists?
 
From: S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2011 2:16 AM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 
Respected all,
Atheists and secularists (who believe in naturalism and rationalism only and who deny role of religion in public life) are more menace to humanity, morality, civilization as history shows. Most of the wars including first and second great wars were waged by them.
Most of the people of religions are good people. Many of them are misguided by secular political leaders or some ignorant and aggressive religious bigots.
Religious people of all religions should fight these exploiters and stand for humanity, morality and social welfare.
 
Shah Abdul Hannan
 
From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jiten Roy
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 6:42 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
 
@Nihar Singh:
 
The true religious people - who are they? Whether they bother anybody or not - is not the issue. The issue is how much is their contribution towards the advancement of the modern society? Are people, who take part in the communal riots or blowup innocent people in the name of religion, any less religious? You may think so - but they don't.
 
@Kamal Das:
The New Testaments does not contain many of the violent verses of the Old Testament means these are not absolute truth. This is the point I am trying to make.
 
Thanks.
 
 
From: nihar singh <nihar_singh786@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
Truely religious people dont disturb anyone. On the other hand atheists try to make everyone atheists. That is true menace. Look at darwin he made everyone think that they eveolved from apes. Many jokers believe this to be true.



--- On Mon, 11/7/11, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
To: "Mukto-mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, November 7, 2011, 7:12 PM
Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
I have been asking this question lately to myself. I tried to find the roles and contributions (I mean, real contributions) of religious people in the society that brought us here from the beginning of time. What I envisioned is that - religion played a very insignificant role towards our social, moral, and scientific developments in this world. Most of these developments are made by religiously indifferent people. The religious people mostly deal with and talk about things that are out of this world. As a result, many of these religious people are misfits and menaces in the society.
 
Many argue that religion builds our moral character, and we learn good and bad from religion, etc. etc. I, on the other hand, think – good and bad we learn from our ancestors, and from our own experiences; religion has nothing to do with it. You might ask where our ancestors learned them from, in the first place. They learned good and bad from their ancestors' experiences, so on, and so forth. Most Chinese do not have any religion. When I asked a Chinese man - how most people there learn about good and bad without religion, he told me - they learn them from their elders' wisdoms. That's right; our ancestors transferred their knowledge and wisdom to us. Therefore, I truly believe – this world would have been a much better place without religion. Religions have divided us into many sectarian hateful clans, which are constantly fighting with one another.
 
Many of us believe that religious doctrines and dogmas are heavenly absolute entities. They forget that - many of those doctrines, dogmas, and interpretations have already been modified from the original preaching during emancipation. For example, Old Testament has been replaced by the New Testament, many Quranic interpretations have been changed, and many Vedic/Puranic practices and interpretations have been changed, etc., etc. That means - religious teachings and practices are subject to change with the time, which means they are not so heavenly endowments as we believe them to be. This is a critical point to remember. Those who think otherwise are the menaces in the society.
 
Jiten Roy








__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?--false propaganda against religion and religious people



Read the Bible and stop flaunting knowledge.  In Christianity, Gabriel appears only once to Virgin Mary to tell her about the birth of Jesus.  Compare that with the pagan story of Moon-god telling Venus that she would conceive and give birth to Mithra.

The Romans were known for their flawless justice system, their govt. records were also well maintained.  The Christian story of the judgment of Jesus is not supported by the archive of Roman records.  Jesus has been treated as a rebellious Jew in the Bible.  The Jewish leaders demanded his crucifixion for that reason.

The same is true also for the Egyptians during the Pharaoh Ramses.  Their archives do not support the story of Exodus.  Similarly, their is no archaeological evidence of the Patriarchs.  Such stories are said to have been concocted during the period of Jewish captivity in Babylon.  Had there been no Cyrus the Persian to free them and let them settle back in Jerusalem, their would be no monotheism today.  And Cyrus was a secular atheist.

My advice to all who would listen.  Read and remove your ignorance.  The Greeks maintained that God almighty is not at all concerned with the sub lunar world.

Inadvertently, I have lectured a lot on theology, and created some irritations in the minds of some believers.  I have no wish to continue doing it.

On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 11:42 PM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 

As usual, Mr. Q. Rahman is wrong on many aspects. 

>>>>>>>> Please specify if I misquoted anything.I'll correct it and learn from you. Anyway I am not going to personal attack. I'll try to replace incorrect information with correct one with verifiable references.

Jesus was a rebellious Jew.


>>>>>>>> He only did what God asked him to do. He only added another "Phase" of revelation (Wahi in Arabic)  which emphasized God's love for people. As far as laws of OT was concern, Jesus honored them and did not say anything against them.


17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy , but to fulfill . 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass , one jot or one tittle shall in no wisepass from the law, till all be fulfilled . 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

[ Source: The holy Bible Matthew 5:17-19 (King James Version) ]

The verse quoted above confirms what I said earlier about Jesus son of Mary as per Christian scripture. If we take a closer look at the concept of God given by Moses and Jesus (PBUT), we'll discover that, it is exactly the SAME message. No changes!!


"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD!" (Deut. 6:4)

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. ( << Mark 12:29 >>)



I feel member Das quoted someone here. HOWEVER it was out of context. During the time of Jesus son of Mary his people (Bani Israel or children of Israel) were very focused on rituals. Jesus did honored laws and rituals. At the same time he introduced compassion to his people. He was misunderstood by Jewish people and they thought he was blasphemed our God and attacked him. My last post contained clear verses from the Bible that, Jesus was ALWAYS obedient to God ( Like all messengers of God!).

Therefore what you tried to imply by  "Jesus was a rebellious Jew." is incorrect as per Christian scripture. Albeit some modern Christians want to say this to justify eating pork, installing pagan infused trinity concept to Christendom. If you strictly follow what the Bible says about Jesus, you will see the word "Trinity" is NOT part of it. You will also not see any sentence clearly supporting divinity of Jesus son of Mary. As I mentioned earlier the concept of trinity was adopted around 350 years AFTER Jesus left us ( In a meeting, NOT by God's order).

Jesus only introduced new revelation from God. He stood up against the rabbinical institution but strictly followed God's orders.

The trinity in Christianity is represented by Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.  Father is the Lord, Son is Jesus aka Sun-god, and the holy Ghost is Sophia/Venus/Shekinah etc


>>>>>>>>>> I am aware of what trinity consists of. The most popular one goes by Father, son and holy ghost. HOWEVER the Sophia/Venus theory is not known to mainstream Christians or present in the any Bible that I am aware of.

Gabriel has no role here.  Gabriel appeared a bit late in monotheism.  He was absent from the time of Abraham, Isaac, to that of Moses.  All of these messengers talk directly to God(s) named El-Saddai(God with breasts), El-Elyon, Elohim, Yahweh etc


>>>>>>>>> IF you read the Bible carefully, you will see Gabriel was part of the revelation process for long time. You are incorrect in saying that, Gabriel "Appeared a bit late in monotheism".

Let me share what Bible says...


while I was still speaking in prayer, then the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision previously, came to me in my extreme weariness about the time of the evening offering [3:00 PM in the afternoon]. And he gave me instruction and talked with me, and said, "O Daniel, I have now come forth to give you insight with understanding. At the beginning of your supplications (prayer) the command was issued, and I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed; so give heed to the message and gain understanding of the vision

(Daniel 9:21-23 [NASB]).


Daniel, just like Muhammad, claimed that the Archangel Gabriel visited him to give God's words to him. Christians accept Daniel as being a prophet. In the New Testament, Jesus spoke of Daniel and called him "Daniel the prophet," as follows:
… spoken of through Daniel the prophet (Matthew 24:15 [NASB])

For the Christian faith, it is important that we distinguish between Daniel, a prophet of the Old Testament as compared to the New Testament characters, Zechariah and Mary. The purpose of the Archangel Gabriel's visit to both Zechariah and Mary is to announce to each that a child would be born.
  • For Zechariah, the angel appeared to him in the temple to announce the coming birth of John the Baptist (refer to Luke 1:5-24, 57-80).

  • For Mary, the angel foretold that she would conceive Jesus by the Holy Spirit and that Jesus is the Messiah foretold by the Old Testament prophets (refer to Luke 1:25-56).

As you can see both Mary ( Mother of Jesus) and prophet Zechariah were there BEFORE Jesus.
So your assumptions are NOT correct.


According to Michael Servetus, Son and Slave were synonymous words in the time of Jesus.  He was burnt at stake for such heretic ideas by Christians.

>>>>>>>>>> As a Muslim, I have no problem in accepting such an idea. Christians however was busy making Jesus something was not!! [ Please re-read my last post showing the verses from the Bible to support my explanation].

According to Islam Jesus was borne by Mary, the sister of Moses.  I suppose Mary gave birth to him when over a thousand years old



>>>>>>>>> I have explained this bit before!!

Actually the verse talks about Aaron not Moses!!

They said: "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought! "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!"
[Qur'an 19:27-28]


Do understand as per Islam, this is NOT a literal verse. For example when we say Sheikh Mujibur Rahman is father of our nation, we do NOT mean it literally. Rather symbolically. There are other verses of the Qur'an which are symbolically ( description of the heavens for one!) not literally. Only people who do not understand the message of Islam takes them literally. Also Arabic speakers uses the words like sons and daughters this way. For example, all people of the earth are also known as Children of Adam (Bani Adam). Jews are known as Children of Israel (Bani Israel). If you take such expression literately, you will misunderstand the message. To read what Qur'an said in this verse and around it, please click here.

If you read the Bible or the Qur'an, it is easy to see. Once you read it in context, it is obvious.


But most interestingly, Jesus has a pagan Persian source.  Mithra, the Persian Sun-god was borne by Anahita, the Goddess of Wisdom in Avesta.  In later days Anahita became Virgin Mary and Mithra became Jesus.  The story does not end here.  Mithra was said to be wedded to the evening star, apparently polyandrous to the ancient sky watchers.  The Evening Star had become Mary Magdalene in Christianity.

>>>>>>>>>>>> These are wild eyed assumptions and not accepted by any mainstream Christians. However as I stated in my last post that, modern Christians (Followers of Paul) did mix some pagan rituals (Sunday worshipping) and history to Jesus. It is important to note that, as per Christian scripture (OT,NT) Jesus did not approve such mix ups.

It is a vast topic, maybe we can leave it for some other time and I'll happy to offer clear verifiable sources with my explanation Inshallah!!


For any follower of Islam, the holy Quran compiled by Osman is the highest source of knowledge.  The holy verses had blinded them.  May Allah help them out of ignorance.


>>>>>>> Thank you. Thank God that, despite many problems Muslims were able to preserve that Qur'an properly. I only use English translations (Most popular ones) to make it easy for readers to understand. As most members do not speak Arabic.

We are discussing these topics to remove ignorance from people.

Peace!!

---qar


-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 19, 2011 8:56 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?--false propaganda against religion and religious people

 
As usual, Mr. Q. Rahman is wrong on many aspects.  Jesus was a rebellious Jew.  The trinity in Christianity is represented by Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.  Father is the Lord, Son is Jesus aka Sun-god, and the holy Ghost is Sophia/Venus/Shekinah etc.  Gabriel has no role here.  Gabriel appeared a bit late in monotheism.  He was absent from the time of Abraham, Isaac, to that of Moses.  All of these messengers talk directly to God(s) named El-Saddai(God with breasts), El-Elyon, Elohim, Yahweh etc. According to Michael Servetus, Son and Slave were synonymous words in the time of Jesus.  He was burnt at stake for such heretic ideas by Christians.  According to Islam Jesus was borne by Mary, the sister of Moses.  I suppose Mary gave birth to him when over a thousand years old.  But most interestingly, Jesus has a pagan Persian source.  Mithra, the Persian Sun-god was borne by Anahita, the Goddess of Wisdom in Avesta.  In later days Anahita became Virgin Mary and Mithra became Jesus.  The story does not end here.  Mithra was said to be wedded to the evening star, apparently polyandrous to the ancient sky watchers.  The Evening Star had become Mary Magdalene in Christianity.

For any follower of Islam, the holy Quran compiled by Osman is the highest source of knowledge.  The holy verses had blinded them.  May Allah help them out of ignorance.

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 3:47 PM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
There are about four billion Christians, yet modern scholars believe Jesus as a fiction created by St. Paul.

>>>>>>>>> I feel it is an honest misunderstanding YOU have about what western scholars are saying. I also feel most of what we see in "Modern Christianity" is mostly work of Paul. However that does NOT mean Jesus son of Mary (PBUH) did not exist!!

People who feel Jesus did not exist are a TINY faction of the scholars of religion. Majority think Jesus did exist BUT the message of the Bible was distorted by Paul and other followers and some of the pagan customs from Europe were merged as well.

One good example would be the weekly religious holiday. Jesus was born among Jewish people and like a good Jew, he observed Sabath day on Saturdays. HOWEVER when Christianity traveled to Europe, the religious holiday was on Sunday in honor of "Sun god". So authentic custom was thrown away and a pagan custom replaced authentic teaching of Jesus son of Mary (PBUH).

Another visible example was Jesus son of Mary (PBUH) did not ear pork as it was prohibited for Jewish people but most followers of Jesus cannot resists juicy pork chops!!!

So Like a good Jew, Jesus son of Mary (PBUH) kept up the Kosher laws but "Modern Christians" do not care for it. Among scholars of Christianity, the modern version of Christianity is known as Pauline Christianity.

One last one ( I can write this for months!!). The "Foundation" of modern Christianity is a theory of "Trinity". Which sees Jesus, Gabriel and God as one entity. However if you read the Bible, you will not find the word 'Trinity" in it!!

It was invented almost 350 years AFTER Jesus son of Mary (PBUH) left us. [ Source: Wiki]

If you read King James Bible (Most popular version of the Bible), you will see that, Jesus son of Mary (PBUH) spoke against trinity but MOST Christians received wrong message (Originated from pagan Euro culture) about him. I'll quote a few verses from the Bible here.....


I am Perfectly Obedient to God




Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever he does, that the Son does likewise."
(Jesus quoted by John 5:19)

"For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me."
(Jesus quoted by John 6:38)

So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me."
(Jesus quoted by John 7:16)

So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he, and I do nothing on my own authority but speak thus as the Father taught me. And he who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what is pleasing to Him."
(Jesus quoted by John 8:28-29)

"For I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak. And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has bidden me."
(Jesus quoted by John 12:49-50)
 




As a hobby I spend good amount of time learning about history of Christianity, so if you have more questions about it, feel free to ask.


Shalom!!




-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:37 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?--false propaganda against religion and religious people

 
There are about four billion Christians, yet modern scholars believe Jesus as a fiction created by St. Paul.

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 2:26 AM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
Actually there are plenty of scholars on Islam who devoted their whole lives in the process. Many of them comes from non-Islamic background as well. In fact proving Muhammad never existed would be hardest thing to do. Since out of nowhere there are 1.7 billion followers of Islam who claims to follow Muhammad (PBUH) and his Creator.

it is also a fact that, Muhammad (PBUH) only finished God's revelation to humanity that started thousands of years BEFORE Muhammad (PBUH) was born. So Muhammad (PBUH) only completed the process. Even if you look into the Bible (OT and NT) you will see that the fundamental message was the same. I'll explain my points with some CREDIBLE and VERIFIABLE sources.


As per Islam, it says God sent us only ONE religion.  So what we call Judaism or Christianity or Islam are continuation of the SAME message.

Any Muslim (With little knowledge of scripture) will tell you that, from Adam to Muhammad (PBUH) all messengers of God came with same message. Sumbit and obey one unseen God.

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD!" (Deut. 6:4) [ This is the basics of Judaism]

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. ( << Mark 12:29 >>)

"There is no true god but God, and Muhammad is the Messenger (Prophet) of God," ( First article of faith in Islam)

 

 Most of the prophets/messesngers/navi (Judaic term) were sent to the "Tribe of Israel". Thus Bible rightfully states (Via Jesus son of Mary)

But he answered and said , I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


  

Making Chrsitianity an universal faith was later development NOT what Jesus practiced [ According to the message of Bible]. During his lifetime Jesus NEVER preached to any non-Jews.

Islam confirmed all previous revelations and all previously chosen people [ Most of them were Jewish]. At the same time started as an "Universal solution for the humanity". At the last part of prophet Muhammad (PBUH) life God revelaed

.....This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah(God) is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.


Therefore, Muslims feel that the revelation completed by the last messenger of God Muhammad (PBUH). Who came with the Final revelation from our Creator.

If you are interested, you may read the following books as credible sources to learn about Muhammad (PBUH).



<> An Oxford scholar who became interested in Islam after he went to Egypt to research. Wrote this wonderful book in the last prophet (PBUH).



<> A Swiss born Scholar of Islam of our time. Often invited by top universities of the world.



<> Mr. Mubarakpuri was an Indian who wrote this book in Arabic which won the best book award in the world wide contest. He beat native Arabic speaks and won this prestigious award with this wonderful book. A great read from verified historical sources.


If you need more "Help" to understand the FACTS about prophet Muhammad (PBUH). All of the sources I shared comes from scholars who are known all over the world. If you have any specific concerns, feel free to ask. If required, I'll give you more sources and names of scholars who can be reached as well.


"Show (thy) gratitude to Allah." Any who is (so) grateful does so to the profit of his own soul; but if any is ungrateful, verily Allah is free of all wants, worthy of all praise.

(Quran 31:12)


-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:11 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?--false propaganda against religion and religious people

 
Sorry, no source is credible.  History is a bunk created on many 'sources'.  There is neo-muslim German Professor, named Sven Kallish, who says, Muhammad might be a total myth.  But the portrayal of the prophet by the people who concocted Islam is less than acceptable by the contemporary moral standard, won't you agree?  Even the angels geocentric planets are in reality.  Judge the statement by yourself.

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 1:31 AM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
Read the dialogues between the prophet and his wives.

>>>>>>>> I have read fair amount of books on prophet Muhammad (PBUH). So kindly share the SOURCE of YOUR information. Like the web site you picked this from will help. So Far I find this as myth by those who do not have understanding of Islam. But I am always interested to learn new things. So give me credible sources for this "Myth".

Thanks.


-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 13, 2011 8:08 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?--false propaganda against religion and religious people

 
Read the dialogues between the prophet and his wives.

On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 1:37 PM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 

Mr. Hannan is a registered member of Jamaat, and a member of Majlis.  He is a shameless advocate of Jamaat politics in the forum with very shallow knowledge on almost everything.

>>>>>>>>> Member Das, if you do not agree with Mr. Hannan, attack his ideas. When you get into personal attacks and attack against religion, it makes YOU look very bad. Jammat's position during 1971 was wrong from many sides (Immoral, unethical, against Islam etc). It is one of the easiest task to criticize that, please try that using logic and solid data (If that is what you are aiming for!!).

Not even Ayesha, the young wife of the prophet believed in the existence of Gabriel. 

>>>>>>>>>>> I have never heard this crap before. Please share your sources!!!!


About the comparative  moral standard of the atheist with theist, it suffices to point out that you would never find out an atheist coveting the wife of his own foster son.  An atheist is always guided by his conscience, and does not invoke God as the cause and solution of all his problems.


>>>>>>>>> If you do not understand this, just ask. One of us will explain it to you. Just like I am disgusted by the low lives who are saying bad things about Dr. Zafar Iqbal, I think this is below civilized discussion when you insult our holy prophet without any knowledge of what happened. He is not around us, so he is the easiest target???


Atheists have their fair share of child molesters, perverts, rapists, murderers and every kind of idiots you can think of. Atheists are just like  rest of us ------HUMAN BEINGS!!

There are good people and bad people in every communities. Muslims and atheists are NO different in that aspect.


Hope reason and logic guide you in future discussion (Instead of blind rage against Islam).

Peace!!

-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 12, 2011 8:57 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?--false propaganda against religion and religious people

 
Mr. Hannan is a registered member of Jamaat, and a member of Majlis.  He is a shameless advocate of Jamaat politics in the forum with very shallow knowledge on almost everything.  With a single track mind like his, one should look for other forums than mukto mona.  Even communism is religion, and was fastest growing in the last century.  Any form of regimentation is bound to accompany such ills as religion does.  There is no reason to believe that any of these so called holy men or prophets had any connection with the 'creator' of the Universe.  They believed in the geocentric model, gave more importance to the planets than the stars.  Planets were Gods which later turned into angels.  Note that there are seven planets/archangels living in seven heavens.  Not even Ayesha, the young wife of the prophet believed in the existence of Gabriel. 

About the comparative  moral standard of the atheist with theist, it suffices to point out that you would never find out an atheist coveting the wife of his own foster son.  An atheist is always guided by his conscience, and does not invoke God as the cause and solution of all his problems.

On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 6:14 AM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
  • Mr. Hannan is married to Jamaati ideaology and politics with unbreakable commitment. He is in the Mukto-mona forum as an amabassador or publicity secretary of Jamaat-i-Islam. That's why whatever he says, whatever he quotes, or whatever he refers to is a means to nakedly support Jamaati politics, idealogy, and activities---both past and present.
  • Being a retired Secretary of the Bangladesh govt., he must be old enough to have witnessed with his own eyes the barbaric and heinous crimes Pakistani army and rightist antiliberation political parties including Jamaati Islam committed during the ten months in 1971. But to justfy their mischiefs he again and again refers to Sharmila Bose's cooked, motivated, and fictitious data.
  • Everybody knows that Maududi was given death sentence which was subsequently commuted by Saudi pressure. A small group in Bangladesh once tried excommunicate the Ahmadiyas from Islam. 
  •  Mr. Hannan is wrong: MQM is not responsible for killing of Shiites by radical Sunni groups. What is happening in Iraq? Does MQM have hand in their too? Mr. Hannan, should you not term Maududi a religious bigot when he incited attacks on the innocent Ahmadiyas in Pakistan? Can you say who these religious bigots are who are suicide-bombing the innocent musollis when they are saying their prayers in the mosque?
  • I agree the barbaric attacks on innocent people are hated by 99% Muslims. But do the Jamaatis fall into the category comprised of the remaining 1%? People will have the right to ask you this question when they find out that you guys do not see any crimes committed by your people in Bangladesh during 1971.     
  • Killing has not been monopolized by religious fanatics, secularists (example, Stalin) have also large share in it---nobody will disagree to that. But why are you hesitant in accepting the fact that innumerable lives have been taken in the name of religion?  
  • I agree most of the people of religions are good people. But you also have to agree that most of the non-believers, skeptics, and agnostics are also good people. Bad guys are those who "sell" religion or an idealogy for capturin or retaining power. They indoctrinate innocent cadres committed to killing and torturing. Obviously, Jamaat-i-Islam is one of them. You can also pick a cruel communist dictator as an example from the other end of the scale.     

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?--false propaganda against religion and religious people
 
Maulana Maududi was given the death sentence by the Ayub regime for the crime.  But he was later pardonned by external pressure.

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 1:00 PM, S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com> wrote:
 
 
As regards Subimol Chakrabarty sahib's points, followers of Maududi did not kill any Ahmadi( Pl see Munir Commision report on punjan disturbances)
As regards 1971 events, many groups killed each other ( read Sharmila Bose's dead Reckoning)
Shia Sunni violence is created by secular political elements like MQM and some religious bigot's .They are hated by 99 percent people.
Again read my earlier submission" Respected all,
Atheists and secularists (who believe in naturalism and rationalism only and who deny role of religion in public life) are more menace to humanity, morality, civilization as history shows. Most of the wars including first and second great wars were waged by them.
Most of the people of religions are good people. Many of them are misguided by secular political leaders or some ignorant and aggressive religious bigots.
Religious people of all religions should fight these exploiters and stand for humanity, morality and social welfare."
 
 
Shah Abdul Hannan
From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of qar
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:48 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
 
Killing of the Ahmediyas by the followers of Mowdoodi in Pakistan, killing and raping of freedom loving Bengalis in 1971, bombing of mosques to kill innocent Shiites in Pakistan and Iraq and somewhere else----are all these the acts by the secularists?
 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are right these were acts of half educated idiots who do not understand the core message of Islam.

However atheist people have done more murdering of innocents than any religious people. Stalin, Mao (Of china) etc done their part in killing anyone who had a different point of view.
-----Original Message-----
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 10, 2011 6:37 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
Killing of the Ahmediyas by the followers of Mowdoodi in Pakistan, killing and raping of freedom loving Bengalis in 1971, bombing of mosques to kill innocent Shiites in Pakistan and Iraq and somewhere else----are all these the acts by the secularists?
 
From: S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2011 2:16 AM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 
Respected all,
Atheists and secularists (who believe in naturalism and rationalism only and who deny role of religion in public life) are more menace to humanity, morality, civilization as history shows. Most of the wars including first and second great wars were waged by them.
Most of the people of religions are good people. Many of them are misguided by secular political leaders or some ignorant and aggressive religious bigots.
Religious people of all religions should fight these exploiters and stand for humanity, morality and social welfare.
 
Shah Abdul Hannan
 
From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jiten Roy
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 6:42 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
 
@Nihar Singh:
 
The true religious people - who are they? Whether they bother anybody or not - is not the issue. The issue is how much is their contribution towards the advancement of the modern society? Are people, who take part in the communal riots or blowup innocent people in the name of religion, any less religious? You may think so - but they don't.
 
@Kamal Das:
The New Testaments does not contain many of the violent verses of the Old Testament means these are not absolute truth. This is the point I am trying to make.
 
Thanks.
 
 
From: nihar singh <nihar_singh786@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
Truely religious people dont disturb anyone. On the other hand atheists try to make everyone atheists. That is true menace. Look at darwin he made everyone think that they eveolved from apes. Many jokers believe this to be true.



--- On Mon, 11/7/11, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
To: "Mukto-mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, November 7, 2011, 7:12 PM
Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
I have been asking this question lately to myself. I tried to find the roles and contributions (I mean, real contributions) of religious people in the society that brought us here from the beginning of time. What I envisioned is that - religion played a very insignificant role towards our social, moral, and scientific developments in this world. Most of these developments are made by religiously indifferent people. The religious people mostly deal with and talk about things that are out of this world. As a result, many of these religious people are misfits and menaces in the society.
 
Many argue that religion builds our moral character, and we learn good and bad from religion, etc. etc. I, on the other hand, think – good and bad we learn from our ancestors, and from our own experiences; religion has nothing to do with it. You might ask where our ancestors learned them from, in the first place. They learned good and bad from their ancestors' experiences, so on, and so forth. Most Chinese do not have any religion. When I asked a Chinese man - how most people there learn about good and bad without religion, he told me - they learn them from their elders' wisdoms. That's right; our ancestors transferred their knowledge and wisdom to us. Therefore, I truly believe – this world would have been a much better place without religion. Religions have divided us into many sectarian hateful clans, which are constantly fighting with one another.
 
Many of us believe that religious doctrines and dogmas are heavenly absolute entities. They forget that - many of those doctrines, dogmas, and interpretations have already been modified from the original preaching during emancipation. For example, Old Testament has been replaced by the New Testament, many Quranic interpretations have been changed, and many Vedic/Puranic practices and interpretations have been changed, etc., etc. That means - religious teachings and practices are subject to change with the time, which means they are not so heavenly endowments as we believe them to be. This is a critical point to remember. Those who think otherwise are the menaces in the society.
 
Jiten Roy








__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___