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Saturday, May 26, 2012

Re: [mukto-mona] The allegation of opposition to the establishment of Dhaka University



1. First thing first. There is no proof that Rabindranath opposed the creation of a university in Dhaka. A book published by Islamic Foundation in eighties (BNP or JP was inpower) has reference to it to which columnist A.Z.M. Abdul Ali made reference; but the accusation made by Islamic Foundation is unfounded. It has been mentioned in that book that in a public meeting in Kolkata Rabindranath expressed his opposition. The interesting thing is that Rabindranath was not present in that meeting let alone expressing his opposition to the creation of Dhaka university. I will provide you with more evidences. Kulada Roy and MMR Jalal have done some research on it to demystify myths created around Rabindranath by communalists and divisive forces. We do not have to agree with Rabindranath on every issue, but the fact is that he never fought over small things. He had disputes with Sarat, Nazrul, Gandhi, etc. but all of these were about matters of outlook and ideologies. None of the three great men mentioned here ever lost respect for him despite the differences in opinion. Research by Roy and Jalal shows that opposition to creation of Dhaka university came from both muslims and hindus and Rabindranath was not one of them. Muslims thought that time was not ripe for having a university as they needed more schools and colleges. If Rabindrananth really oppossed the creation of Dhaka university, Sir Salimullah would not have shown such a big respect to him. Rabindranath's attitude towards Aligarh University also indicates that he was above all communalism. I have mentioned earlier that on at least three occasions he praised the prophet of Islam; he has even called Muhammed a maharishi. There are evidences of how respectfully he treated his muslim subjects.
 
2. I cannot quite agree with Mr. Rahman. I don't see any reason why muslims in East Bengal would not prosper in the united India. Why was Pakistan needed at all?   
 
3. "Lack of opportunities" is the culprit behind keeping any community backward. Opportunities come from different directions. Doors to opportunities are also closed by rulers and even by religion. Modern education for everybody is a prerequisite.  

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] The allegation of opposition to the establishment of Dhaka University

 
You made a very good observation about the time frame (1921). I think the idea of Dhaka University had to be started even earlier. Maybe during bongo-bhongo time? At least much earlier than 1921.

You are right in pointing out that, Hindus were dominating the then east Bengal despite being minority in this area. If there were no Pakistan, it is more than likely Hindus would be dominating Muslims in area known as Bangladesh. Which is again why people of that time felt Muslims should get some privileges they were deprived of. During the 40's the concept of Pakistan was very popular. It had mass support from Muslims for reasons you described. Fortunately when the illusion of "Brotherhood" felt apart, we got out of Pakistani structure. Which shows the wisdom of common people we often like to ignore. People are not married to any "Concept". People are dynamic and Pakistan offered a solution (Or promise of a solution) to the problem they faced as Muslims. Later when Pakistan failed to deliver the "Promise of Pakistan", it was not so popular anymore. That is why I always stress on having "Justice for all people" in our country. Without security and safety a country is just an empty promises.

In the world, there are about 1.4 billion Muslims among the total population of about 7.0 billion. What are the comparisons between the Muslims and the other religious groups in terms of world-renowned scholars (an indication would be the Nobel Prize winners in all subjects but peace)?

 >>>>>>>>> This is a popular line among Islamophobes who want to portray Muslims as "Sub-Human" in front of the world. The fact is all over the Muslim world (Where Muslims were majority, currently 57 countries) all most all countries (Except Saudi Arabia) were colonized by western powers. Even Saudis had "Pacts" with western nations to survive. So it will take new "Islamic" states some time before they re-group and find themselves again.

Do note that, during the "Dark age" in Europe Muslim lands were filled with top scholars in every field. It was southern Europe that lead the continent to modern days and Muslims were bog part of that transition. In southern Spain Muslims establish the one of the earliest "Pluralistic communities" of the world. I mean the Brits used to say similar things about our own people of the Indian sub-continent. Now we know with few more decades we can prove ourselves against anyone. Who knew the textile mills and garment factories of Bangladesh will be one of the largest sources of the world in two decades?

What is keeping the Muslims backward compared to all other significant religious groups? 

>>>>>>>> Lack of opportunities.

I do not consider myself as an "Accuser" here but wanted to share my ideas on them anyway. I did not accuse Rabindranath of any extra ordinary racial biases (Nothing more than the social norm of his time).


Shalom!

-----Original Message-----
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, May 25, 2012 4:19 am
Subject: [mukto-mona] The allegation of opposition to the establishment of Dhaka University

 
I have seen this allegation in the Bangladesh-centric internet forums over a period of many years. There seems to be a new generation of accusers lately. Instead of making any suggestion about why some people make this allegation against people like Ashutosh Mukherjee or Rabindranath Tagore, let me just ask a few questions.
 
When Dhaka University was formed in 1921, was there any plan anywhere for the creation of Pakistan in 1947?
 
There are several highly prestigious universities in the USA which are located at or near high black population areas. For example, the University of Chicago and Columbia University in New York City. How many percents of the professors and students of these universities are black?
 
From 1921 to 1947 which religious group had more professors and students at Dhaka University, Muslims or Hindus?
 
If there was no Pakistan, or if there was no displacement of Hindus from East Bengal due to the creation of Pakistan in 1947, which religious group would be dominating the academic circle of Dhaka University today, Muslims or Hindus?
 
In the world, there are about 1.4 billion Muslims among the total population of about 7.0 billion. What are the comparisons between the Muslims and the other religious groups in terms of world-renowned scholars (an indication would be the Nobel Prize winners in all subjects but peace)?
 
What is keeping the Muslims backward compared to all other significant religious groups?  
 
Let me wait for some fact-based and honest answers to the above six questions, and some intelligent amalgamations of those answers, preferably from the accusers, before I comment on the subject.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
====================================
 
Yahoo! Groups
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Re: [mukto-mona] RE: MuslimsTogether :: al Azhar confirms HIJAB is not a part of the religion---This is sheer propaganda. A statement of a Ph D thesis can not change the ruling of the scholars of all times.



Faith based statements have only 5% probability of being correct.  Judge my statement according to history.  Most of the faith based statements have been washed away with the development of science.  Sun is not believed to rotate around the earth.  More people believe in Darwin than in Moses, and the list of examples is endless.

On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 11:01 PM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

"Muslims (Christians and Jews) credits God for every good blessings we have. Even different cultures are results of God's wish. If it was His wish, we would have spoken the same language but He wanted to have diversity in us."
 
 

Above statements are faith-based. That's what your belief is, which has, at best, 50% probability of being correct. In my view, your arguments have holes in it, which you cannot see, obviously due to your faith. Let me point it out. As per your argument, every good thing that happens to us is God's endowment. I know I discussed this point before, let me do it again. If that logic is valid then - why do some people get so much blessings from God without much effort, while others struggle all their lives? It's not because of their faithfulness to God, because many of them are not that faithful at all. Also tell me - why do so many innocent kids suffer from birth others don't?  

 

Now, let me give you my opinion.  My God is totally indifferent of what we do here on this earth. We are all free to do anything we want. All that He cares about is - what we bring to him at the end of our journey. That's it. Your round skullcap and long dress or your long Hijab or your saffron garb will not go with you at the end of your journey, but your deeds will. Therefore, what you do under the veil is the most important part of your life. God gave women unprecedented beauty. He did not give you the right to force or coerce them to cover it. Let them enjoy their god-given beauty. Let's give them freedom to wear whatever they feel like. That's what my God tells me.

 

Jiten Roy

 
 
--- On Sat, 5/26/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: MuslimsTogether :: al Azhar confirms HIJAB is not a part of the religion---This is sheer propaganda. A statement of a Ph D thesis can not change the ruling of the scholars of all times.
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, May 26, 2012, 6:27 AM


 
If I want to hear criticism of Hinduism, I would rather go to a Muslim, not to a Hindu. Don't you agree? 

>>>>>>>>> No I do not agree. If you read my posts for last 4 months, you will rarely see any criticism of Hinduism, Judaism or Christianity. If I mention them in our discussion, I provide references from their own scriptures FIRST.

May be it is your "Assumption" that, Muslims and Hindus will always be against each other, so they will also be "Critical" or each others. That is very shallow way of looking at our discussions. I only try to explain what Islam says because I found out most people are not even aware of the topics they discuss here. So most of the time it is like "Blind leading blind" here. I supply information about topic I am aware of and let people make up their minds.

In fact, I am quite critical of Muslims when I feel they made a wrong move in real life or cyber life.

Of course – criticism of a critic may not always be accurate, which can be debated, but the criticism will be superior to the sugarcoated answer from a supporter.

>>>>>>>>> As long criticism is based on solid knowledge of any topic,I welcome it. Any honest comments are welcome, as long you have knowledge of the subject and your intention is good.

As a critic, I think Hijab is a cultural object, not a religious issue at all. Remember - Allah did not invent clothing or dress. Clothing is the cultural development of humankind.

>>>>>>>> Well that is NOT how Muslims view it. Maybe it is view of atheists or Hindus but Muslims (Christians and Jews) credits God for every good blessings we have. Even different cultures are results of God's wish. If it was His wish, we would have spoken the same language but He wanted to have diversity in us. There is a beautiful verse in the Qur'an (President Clinton's favorite!).

God could care less if we wear something or nothing on this earth. Obviously, you cannot envision this logic because of your faith. I have no such obligation, so I can see the logic very clearly

>>>>>>>>> As I posted verses from the Qur'an earlier saying God is NOT dependent on how we act here. All the "Laws" are there to help us out. So I can and I do understand what you are saying here. God gave us 'Free will", so you are welcome to obey Him or disobey Him. It will make NO difference to Him or even me. ;-)

I know – you will say – Hijab is good for the protection of woman.

>>>>>>>> it looks like you did not READ my last post, before you decided to REPLY to it. Anyway the concept of Hijab applies to both men and women ( I have quoted verses as well). It protects both people for being modest. As I said, it is not an "Islamic" invention. Similar dress codes have been discussed in multiple leading religious scriptures.

How many sexual assault stories have you heard from people living in the nudist colonies? How many sexual assault stories did come out from the tribes living in the jungle? I can't recollect any. Can you?


>>>>>>>>> I used to think most atheists are fan of logic and knowledge. I stand humbled and corrected.

Here you "ASSumed" my answer than proceeded to reply to it!!!   :-)

Anyway, how many nudist colonies and jungle people have modern police stations

Since you live in the USA, do know that, if you go to a police station without clothing, you will be arrested right away. It is against the LAW of the USA (Unless you are inside nudist colonies and USA has fewer of them than Europe).  

If majority nudist population had sexual assault as a "Concern", they would not have lived in nude in the first place. Here you are trying make comments AGAINST human nature. If people did not have sexual urge seeing naked people, porn and nudist publications would have been out of business. Last time I checked, it is a multi-billion dollar industry.

A ten year old report claimed more than 2,50,000 American women are engaged in nude clubs and Prostitution. Guess when you "Shake your money maker" and money comes, you cannot keep assuming otherwise.

Take it easy. :-D

Shalom!! 


-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, May 26, 2012 7:43 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: MuslimsTogether :: al Azhar confirms HIJAB is not a part of the religion---This is sheer propaganda. A statement of a Ph D thesis can not change the ruling of the scholars of all times.

 
Q. Rahman Said: "If you want to learn about Islam, kindly ask Muslims for it. As far as Hijab is concern, it is part of the Qur'an. For last 1400 years most scholars of Islam (Around 99%) agrees on Hijab requirement."
 

 
Expected answers from Muslims will not be any different from what you just said. I wanted to know the other side of the story, which can only be heard from a critic, not from a supporter.  If I want to hear criticism of Hinduism, I would rather go to a Muslim, not to a Hindu. Don't you agree? 
Of course – criticism of a critic may not always be accurate, which can be debated, but the criticism will be superior to the sugarcoated answer from a supporter.
As a critic, I think Hijab is a cultural object, not a religious issue at all. Remember - Allah did not invent clothing or dress. Clothing is the cultural development of humankind. Many people still live in the jungle; they wear almost nothing. That's how we came from God. Therefore, God could care less if we wear something or nothing on this earth. Obviously, you cannot envision this logic because of your faith. I have no such obligation, so I can see the logic very clearly.
I know – you will say – Hijab is good for the protection of woman.
This is not true at all. More you cover something, more you increase the attraction or curiosity at it. How many times have you seen sexual assault on women on the beach? How many sexual assault stories have you heard from people living in the nudist colonies? How many sexual assault stories did come out from the tribes living in the jungle? I can't recollect any. Can you?
Jiten Roy

--- On Fri, 5/25/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: MuslimsTogether :: al Azhar confirms HIJAB is not a part of the religion---This is sheer propaganda. A statement of a Ph D thesis can not change the ruling of the scholars of all times.
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, May 25, 2012, 10:57 AM

 
Member Roy,

If you want to learn about Islam, kindly ask Muslims for it. As far as Hijab is concern, it is part of the Qur'an. For last 1400 years most scholars of Islam (Around 99%) agrees on Hijab requirement. Even those Muslima who do not observe hijab, even they know it is a requirement. In Bangladesh most women have the freedom to observe hijab or not observing it. But to say, it is not part of Islam comes from ignorance.

It is equally important to note, veil (Or Hijab) is one part of it. We have to keep our hearts pure and "Protected" to reflect true teachings of Islam. If someone wears cap or Hijab but wishes bad for his/her neighbor, he/she cannot be a good Muslim. If our non-Muslim neighbors are not safe from our greed, it is better not worry about Hijab. Also the very first "Hijab verse" speaks to Muslim men (Not women) asking to lower his gaze.



  Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.

[ Source: Al Qur'an 24:30]

And the following verse speaks to women...



  And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, .................................

[ Source: Al Qur'an 24:31]

Even the picture of mother Mary (Displayed by Christians all over the world) shows the veil over her head. Even other prominent religion speaks about veil as well. So it is not even unique requirement of Islam. This requirement also seen in other faiths but many do not practice it.

For those who want to practice Islam "Properly" should try to observe Hijab. If not at least be respectful to those who want to stay "Modest" in public.

Click on the link below to read an article on the topic.

HIJAB IN THE WORKPLACE



and a liberal western view on veil.

MY BODY IS MY OWN BUSINESS

By Naheed Mustafa




Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, May 25, 2012 8:13 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: MuslimsTogether :: al Azhar confirms HIJAB is not a part of the religion---This is sheer propaganda. A statement of a Ph D thesis can not change the ruling of the scholars of all times.

 
Dr. Das Said: " Mr. Hannan is advised to read the comments made by Aisha-bint-Talha regarding the matter."
 
How about rest of us? You are asking us to read the comment also? It would be appreciated if you could reveal the quote instead of making it a mystery for all of us. We intend to learn from one another. In lieu of that, it only becomes one to one communication as it has been in this case.
Thanks.
Jiten Roy


--- On Thu, 5/24/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: MuslimsTogether :: al Azhar confirms HIJAB is not a part of the religion---This is sheer propaganda. A statement of a Ph D thesis can not change the ruling of the scholars of all times.
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, May 24, 2012, 9:39 PM

 
Even children and grand children of the 'rightly guided Caliphs' were against using the hijab.  Mr. Hannan is advised to read the comments made by Aisha-bint-Talha regarding the matter.

2012/5/24 S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
 
 
This is sheer propaganda. Please give us the whole Ph D thesis for checking. A statement of a Ph D thesis can not change the ruling of the scholars of all times.
Who are these people of WMC? What is their interest?
 
Shah Abdul Hannan

From: WorldMuslimCongress@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WorldMuslimCongress@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ISLAM
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 9:44 PM
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: MuslimsTogether :: al Azhar confirms HIJAB is not a part of the religion
 
 
here is my humble interpretation:

Finally al Azhar clarifies its position and announces that hijab has nothing to do with religion

al Azhar's endorsed Sheikh Mustafa Mohamed Rashid's PhD thesis on Sharia and Law for which he obtained a grade of excellent, where he stated that hijab is not an Islamic requirement (fard), and that the interpretation (tafseer) of the verses (ayat) and the circumstances during which they appeared has led to the widespread misunderstanding about the so-called 'Islamic Hijab' denoting covering the head, of which there is absolutely no mention in the Quran.

Yet some have misconstrued the intent and correct interpretation of the Sharia, refusing the logic and sequence of its appearance, abandoning the proper methods of citing and interpreting of the verses (ayat), their historical background and reason for them.  They have done so either intentionally, or with good intention but with lack of the essential analytical savvy.

This hijab issue imposed itself on the Islamic and non-Islamic psyche, and thus becoming the defining factor, meaning, and nature of the Islamic faith to non-Muslims, which led some non-Islamic nations to consider it a divisive political statement.  In consequence to the resulting friction, some female students have been expelled from universities and jobs, only due to their adherence to this false belief, thereby attaching to Islam a non existent requirement.

So inconsistent and misguided have the proofs of the supporters of the hijab theory been, that it would sometimes take the form of khimar or jalabeeb, which distanced them from what they meant by head cover, which is indicative of their restrictive set of mind.

'Hijab' was mentioned in verse (ayah) 53 of al AHzab, where it signifies 'wall' or 'what prevents view' and it was in regards to pure "ummuhat al mo'mineen" where a "hajib" is to be placed between them and any men.

As for verse (ayah) 31 of Al Khimar - Sourrat al Noor, that is also a redundant claim, as the intent here is the cover of the breast and neck - the background here is the covering of the breast whose exposure is un-Islamic, and not what is now understood by hijab for the head.

And in regards to the historical background of verse (ayah) 59 of Sourrat al AHzab was to distinguish between the pure and the promiscuous whores and slaves.

Finally, in the mis-use of the Hadith about Asma'a, daughter of Abu Bakr, when she walked in on the prophet (pbuh)s gathering, and he ordered her to not expose her face or palms - this Hadith is not a binding Hadith, as it is one of al AHaad and not one of the consistent, or the connected confirmed.


TRANSLATION BY GEHAN A F D SABRY
Gehan
ex co- host
 Islam Faith & CultureS
 POB 20002 Kitchener ON N2P 2B4
 Tel: 519- 893-4259
 email: islam.fm@bellnet.ca
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Thu, 17 May 2012 18:33:05 +0200
 
 
 
2976: عدد القراء

الازهر يؤكد : الحجاب ليس من الدين

الخميس 17 مايو 2012   12:20:02 م
أخيرا حسم الازهر موقفه ..
وأعلن صراحة ان الحجاب ليس من الدين فى شىء ..

موافقة الازهر على هذا الرأى جاءت فى منحه درجة الدكتورة للشيخ مصطفى محمد راشد في الشريعة والقانون بتقدير عام امتياز،فى رسالة قال الشيخ مصطفى فيها ان الحجاب ليس فريضة اسلامية..

وان تفسير الايات بمعزل عن ظروفها التاريخية، واسباب نزولها قد ادى إلى فهم مغلوط شاع وانتشر بشكل كبير حول ما يسمى بـ«الحجاب الاسلامي!»، والمراد به غطاء الرأس الذي لم يذكر لفظه في القرآن الكريم على الاطلاق

الا ان البعض قد اختزل مقاصد الشريعة الاسلامية وصحيح التفسير ورفض إعمال العقل في نقله وتفسيره، وأورد النصوص في غير موضعها وفسرها على هواه، مبتعدا عن المنهج الصحيح في التفسير والاستدلال الذي يفسر الآيات وفقا لظروفها التاريخية وتبعا لأسباب نزولها، إما لرغبتهم وقصدهم ان يكون التفسير هكذا، واما لحسن نيتهم لأن قدراتهم التحليلية تتوقف إمكانات فهمها عند هذا الحد لعوار عقلي أو آفة نفسية.


باتت مسألة «الحجاب!» تفرض نفسها على العقل الاسلامي وغير الاسلامي، وامست مقياسا وتحديدا لمقصد ومعنى وطبيعة الدين الاسلامي في نظر غير المسلمين مما حدا ببعض الدول غير الاسلامية الى اعتبار «الحجاب!» شعارا سياسيا يؤدي إلى التفرقة بين المواطنين والتمييز بينهم، وقد حدثت مصادمات، وفصل من الجامعات والوظائف بسبب تمسك المسلمة بفهم خاطئ لما يسمى «الحجاب!»، وتحميل للاسلام بما لم يأت به من دعوى انه فريضة اسلامية.

جاءت ادلة من يرون فرضية «الحجاب!» متخبطة وغير مرتبطة، مرة بمعنى الحجاب، وتارة بمعنى الخمار، واخرى بمعنى الجلابيب، وهو ما يوضح ابتعادهم عن المعنى الصحيح الذي يقصدونه وهو غطاء الرأس، وانهم يريدون انزال الحكم بأي شكل لهوى عندهم، وقد ورد ذكر «الحجاب!» في الآية رقم (53) من سورة الاحزاب، والمقصود به الحائط أو الساتر، وهو متعلق بأمهات المؤمنين الطاهرات المطهرات ووجوب وضع ساتر بينهن وبين الرجال من صحابة رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، اما الاستدلال بآية الخمار التي وردت في سورة النور في الآية رقم (31) فهو أيضا استدلال باطل لأن المقصود بها وجوب ستر النحر وهو اعلى الصدر وستر العنق ايضا، وعلة نزول تلك الآية الكريمة، تصحيح وتعديل وضع خاطئ كان سائدا وقائما وقت نزولها وهو كشف صدر المرأة وهي صورة يرفضها الاسلام ومن ثم قصدت الاية تغطية الصدر وليس غطاء الرأس كما يسميه الناس الآن «الحجاب!».

اما الاستدلال بآية الجلابيب التي وردت في سورة الاحزاب في الآية رقم (59)، فإن سبب نزول الآية ان عادة النساء وقت التنزيل كانت كشف وجوههن مثل الإماء أو الجواري، فكان بعض الفجار يسترقون النظر إلى النساء فنزلت تلك الآية لتضع فارقا وتمييزا بين الحرائر والإماء الجواري حتى لا تتأذى الحرة المؤمنة العفيفة.

واخيرا استدلال البعض بحديث أسماء بنت ابي بكر رضي الله عنهما عندما دخلت على رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فأمرها بأن لا تكشف الا عن وجهها وكفيها، كدليل على فرضية «الحجاب!» أي غطاء الرأس، فهو استدلال لا يعتد به لأن هذا الحديث من احاديث الآحاد، وليس من الاحاديث المتواترة أو المتصلة السند، لكنه حديث آحاد لم يتصل سنده بالعدول الضابط
 




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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] Dr. Yunus - Not the Founder of Grameen Bank



Dr. Yunus is a loan shark with no political or academic skill.  As a teacher of economics, he never had anything published on subject in a peer reviewed journal.  His excellence as a loan shark was inherited from his father who made a living out of the business.

On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 2:13 AM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Dr. Yunus is not exactly a Václav Havel type, who could charm the citizens and produce a bloodless velvet revolution in Chechoslovakia. Dr. Yunus is an academician with no political skill. It is strange that he could dare to take on these two dynastic leaders in their own turfs. A fatal mistake from his side and it would be better to patch up strained relations and continue his own work. I do not see why it would be so important for him to the leader of that bank. He can easily create an institute in no time.
-SD   
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:50 AM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Dr. Yunus - Not the Founder of Grameen Bank

 
Yunus angered both AL and BNP by supporting the "Minus 2" Theory and aspiring to become the president of the country through a questionable election. With him as the puppet head of the government, we would have got virtually an army rule. BNP should be thankful that it has not happened. It is now using Yunus issue as a propaganda against AL. If BNP ever comes to power, it will not do any thing for Yunus. 


Honorable Dr. Yunus was acceptable to most Bangladeshis until Hasina dropped him from Grameen Bank. All Awami/Baksalis now criticizing Dr. Yunus and following
Hasina's step. this is unfortunate for all Bangladeshis. My understanding is that if he joined BAL(Bangladesh Awami League) or supported Awami/Baksali
agenda he could been still the CEO of Grammen Bank.
 Awami's repect Indian Noble Laurate Amartya Sen but hate Bangladeshi Noble  winner Dr. Yunus.
Even Amaratya receives state honor by Hasina regime. Anything Indian 'dear'  to the Awami/Baksalis.
 
 
--------- Original Message ----------
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Dr. Yunus - Not the Founder of Grameen Bank
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 12:09:10 -0400 (EDT)

 
You want me to give a pass to Dr. Yunus because he is a Bangladeshi and got a prize for us? He got prize on what basis? Why can't he defend his own economic model? Why can't he improve his model? Why can't he setup an Institute (Yunus) with his prize money? Even international donors would shower him with money. What is he waiting for?


>>>>>>>> Nope. just go ahead and drag him down to mud. Who needs an enemy when we have such "Assets" within......

I am sure, you have the intellect to critic his work. Also feel free to show us how he fooled the whole world (The Americans, Canadians, Indians, Saudis, Chinese, South Americans etc).

Knock yourself out my friend!!

Shalom!
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: alochona <alochona@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, May 25, 2012 4:16 am
Subject: [mukto-mona] Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Dr. Yunus - Not the Founder of Grameen Bank

 
 
As a brilliant economist, Dr. Yunus should be able to withstand some critics. More garlands to a man for his Nobel peace price is basically redundant and should be avoided. Even brilliant Milton Friedman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Friedman)  was attacked vehemently for his economical theories. You want me to give a pass to Dr. Yunus because he is a Bangladeshi and got a prize for us? He got prize on what basis? Why can't he defend his own economic model? Why can't he improve his model? Why can't he setup an Institute (Yunus) with his prize money? Even international donors would shower him with money. What is he waiting for?
-SD     
 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
From: Emanur Rahman <emanur@rahman.com>
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 6:45 PM
Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] Re: Dr. Yunus - Not the Founder of Grameen Bank

 
It is in our nature to pull back down into the dirt those who achieve more than us. It's a national trait.

Shah Deeldar and Rahaat Khan are doing this with Prof Yunus.

BNP have done this quite successfully with Zia.

BAL have been the most successful with Bangabandhu.

It is as equally gratifying as it is disappointing that 40 years on the stereotypes continue to hold true.

Well done.

Emanur Rahman, UK


-----Original Message-----
From: alochona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:alochona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ezajur
Sent: 23 May 2012 08:08
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Dr. Yunus - Not the Founder of Grameen Bank

I don't understand Shah Deeldar. He says Yunus got the award for what he did but then says he failed to do anything with the award. What was he supposed to do with the award? Give it to Hasina?

There are a lot of chamchas who discuss Dr Yunus without any reference to Hasina. These chamchas did not complain when he got the award. These chamchas did not complain before he got the award. But the moment Hasina took revenge against him for daring to enter politics -

all the chamchas joined in the hounding of Dr Yunus.

--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, Shumon Ahmed <shumonoh@...> wrote:
>
> The contribution of Dr Yunus is more than any political party of Bangladesh specially BAL. That's why Dr. Hasina is so jealous. As the BAL thieves already destroyed all the organization of Bangladesh and they have little left to steal from, now they need the Grameen profitable organizations (over 30)Â and they want to start stealing from there.
> Noble prize committee knows more than any of us about the candidate
> before awarding the prize. The prize is not based on future
> accomplishment but the past achievement.Â
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@...>
> To: "alochona@yahoogroups.com" <alochona@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 8:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Dr. Yunus - Not the Founder of Grameen Bank
>
>
> Â
> Look, Norwegian Nobel committee knows the exact quality of the man. Needless to say that not all Nobel prizes are equals. Dr. Yunus was given the prize for a good cause but he has totally failed to do anything with that Gold medal. A sad story indeed!
>
> -SD
>
>
> "All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Modasser Hossain <bolonhome@...>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 9:11 PM
> Subject: [ALOCHONA] Dr. Yunus - Not the Founder of Grameen Bank
>
>
> Â
>
> Â
>
> Dr. Yunus - Not the Founder of Grameen Bank
>
> Â
> -Rahaat Khan
> Â
> Â
> Dr. Yunus’s case related to Grameen Bank is now pending with the Supreme Court. The hearing is adjourned for two weeks from 15th March, 2011. Naturally, any opinion on this sub-judiced matter is prohibited in the eye of law. Hence, I will only put forward some of my personal observation on Dr. Muhammad Yunus and his activities.
> Â
> A man of high esteem, Dr. Yunus has definitely glorified our nation
> for his Nobel Peace award. And we, being Bangladeshis feel proud of him. But there is a slight misnomer with his reputation. Dr. Yunus is frequently recognized as the founder of Grameen Bank. But the fact does not entirely go with this. The Government of Bangladesh has constituted this specialized bank in 1990 in purview with the existing rules of the land and under the provisions and supervision of Bangladesh Bank. As such, Dr. Yunus may, by large, be considered as the founder managing director of the said bank, not the founder. Any way, he is all in all in the Grameen Bank and his hilarious effort in marketing this bank is enormous. Like many other, it also strikes me that why Dr. Yunus was not interested to have a successor although there was a heresy that for sometime, Khaled Shams, a renowned banker was deemed to the next role leader. But in one fine morning Mr. Shams was removed from this bank and also it was not clear whether he was engaged in any of Grameen’s projects. Anyway, the next name we came across was some Dipal Borua but that too been a faded name for a long while. No doubt, Dr. Yunus’s contribution to the Grameen Bank is fathomless. But it is also an undeniable fact that an institution requires a generation of successive leadership for its sustenance. But we did not spot Mr. Yunus being attentive to this at all. Why? This may be better known to him but my understanding along with many others slates this not as a failure on Dr. Yunus’s part to realize it rather the very wish of life long governance over the institution of even the intention of doing whatever he feels like with this specialized bank.
> Â
> This is a common place that everyone retires after a certain period of service. But the very effort of Dr. Yunus testifies that he wants a life time managing directorship for Grameen Bank. Seemingly, his departure from this grand comradeship will husk a griddling fate to 80 lakh poor people. Mr. Yunus is now 71. Does every death spare any Nobel laureate? If so be the fact, and also the fact remains Dr. Yunus’s absence from Grameen Bank, shatters the fate of 80 lack poor people, naturally people should witness his immortality for the sake of Grameen Bank and the poor. But is that possible?
> Â
> Defying all these Dr. Yunus requires to be on top of the Grameen Bank.
> It isn’t only because of the dignity of this Nobel laureate, but to the best of my knowledge, rather because of many inter and intra continental trade conglomeration. Okay, there is no harm in such strategic partnership. But many indicates on the unfair pledge especially where any specialized financial institution like Grameen Bank enjoys the provision of non-compliance collateral or equity principles and tax rebate. As such it earned an unequival competitive advantage to override other similar businesses in the market for which it was not meant, rather, the special arrangements on part of the regulators came out of the belief that micro financing and micro credit would be an epitome to relieve poverty. But what our experience narrates is nothing but the tale of an ugly game. When it is expected that Dr. Yunus being a Nobel laureate would do justice to his own dignity more specifically when the awards goes for peace making. But it didn’t go along that line. Mr Yunus didn’t off shoulder his responsibility until he was officially removed by the Bangladesh Bank. Some Western allies including the Friends of Grameen started lobbying and seemed to be very much resolutative for holding his position as MD of the Grameen Bank. Disaster without Yunus!
> Â
> Now, the question is, whose disaster the allies think it to be?
> Anyway, I restrain myself from commenting on that. Just to raise a little point on the validity of the policy statements of an institution which claims to have a pivotal role in poverty alleviation where the interest rate is 35 to 40 per cent and more interestingly these loan arrangements are triggered towards to the people living below the poverty line. Doesn’t it sound like an impractical imagination? As if a fool dwelling in a paradise! Against this backdrop of Grameen Bank, there are many NGOs in Bangladesh (e.g. BRAC, PROSHIKA, Nijera Kori, KARITAS etc.) which have a long legacy of success story on issues like poverty alleviation, reducing child mortality and pregnant women, population control, women empowerment, development of sanitation in rural and slum areas etc. Does the Grameen Bank record any visible contribution to the above-mentioned programmes or areas with its high-rated interest provision? Then, it is not an exaggeration or over-statement that the Grameen Bank effort was more focused on financial transaction based on a mercenary-like attitude and style than effective poverty alleviation.
> Â
> Despite all these, Dr. Yunus was awarded Nobel peace price for his
> `contribution’ to poverty alleviation and helping reducing the threat of anarchy due to extreme poverty in society thus bringing smiles to millions of faces in rural Bangladesh. This Nobel price in fact struck many conscious minds. A man who has never uttered a single word protesting against the 1971 genocide by Pakistan, rather stayed in USA to remain in safe zone; who has always kept aloof during natural and political calamities in Bangladesh (only except the post one-eleven incident). Rather, it is him, the man who has little visible contribution to poverty alleviation rather but for conceptualizing micro credit to the poor with an enormous interest rate and thus became a mercenary Dr. Yunus who has been awarded the Nobel Peace price for peace? What else could this be called than just doing a mimic to peace by the Nobel granting committee? I have always praised Mr. Yunus as a successful entrepreneur; however, I still have some reservations and queries regarding him:
> Â
> A Bangladeshi by birth, why Dr. Yunus never has visited our national mausoleum in Savar, or shrine of the Father of the Nation Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman? Nor have we ever seen him saying anything regarding Bangabandhu. His snobbish attitude and disregard to Bangabandhu and all glorious achievements of Bangalee nation hurt me the most. Should such a personality deserve respect? Moreover, the man who intended to brand all politicians as corrupt during the post one-eleven scenario; and who consented to take responsibility of ruling the country but with an assurance for 10-year stay in power has been much downgraded from his dignity and esteem. Time will say what will be the legal fate of Dr. Yunus. But Mr. Yunus, you have lost much of the glare of a Nobel laureate by now. This is really a misfortune for the whole nation.
> Â Â
> Â
> Â Â Â
>

------------------------------------

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Re: [mukto-mona] Will the BNP strike a deal with New Delhi?



Yes, that is called strategic alliance in politics. AL's alliance with Jamaat was a win-win game. AL came to power. Jamaat, the anti-liberation hated party, rehabilitated itself in Bangladesh politics.

From: Mohiuddin Anwar <mohiuddin@netzero.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; subimal@yahoo.com; manik195709@yahoo.com; kamalctgu@gmail.com; aanis06@yahoo.com; pressministerwash@yahoo.com
Cc: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Will the BNP strike a deal with New Delhi?

In poltics everything is possible. Todays friends are tomorrows foes. The persons now allied with Awami League Hasanul Haq Inu was responsible for killing hundreds of Awami Leagyuers when Inu led the
notorious JASOD Gonobahini. Jononetri forgot the past. Same thing will happen to other politicians. Once Jamat was allied with Awami League to oppose BNP now Jamat allied with BNP. India and USA is the main powerbroaker of our government we have to realize this. India doesnot support any ruling party permanently rather with the people of Bangladesh , Indian Minister Salmam Khurshid just mentioned this in Dhaka. Behindthe curtain negotiation continuing. Hasina government lost public support in three years of misrule, India and USA knew it better  than us.Hasina's torture/repression  surpassed her own record
.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Will the BNP strike a deal with New Delhi?
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 08:37:59 -0700 (PDT)

 
If you read Munshi or M. Anwar or any one in the gang, you know that they hardly rely on people for capturing power. Rather they will rely more on conspiracies. The history of the very birth of BNP (a brainchild of an army dictator named Zia) can explain this. AL came through great struggles while Zia simply hijacked power from the revolutionaries led by Taher whom and many other the former had to kill to consolidate power. If you look back and reflect on BNP's achievemnets, it has "sold out" the country (example, sharing the Ganges water) more than AL has. Once back to power for a prolonged period, they will repeat the same thing. 
Munshi should know that America is soft on Jamaat thanks to the manipulated lobbyists in DC. That automatically makes BNP a favorite of America. Only good news for AL is that India is getting more and more aligned with America and India finds a more reliable friend in AL, not BNP. 
Having said that I must have a word of caution here for AL: Rely on people's support, not the support of the elder brother.     
 
 
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: Mohiuddin Anwar <mohiuddin@netzero.net>; "manik195709@yahoo.com" <manik195709@yahoo.com>; "ovimot@yahoogroups.com" <ovimot@yahoogroups.com>; "syed.aslam3@gmail.com" <syed.aslam3@gmail.com>
Cc: "srbanunz@gmail.com" <srbanunz@gmail.com>; "jnsr53@yahoo.com" <jnsr53@yahoo.com>; "subimal@yahoo.com" <subimal@yahoo.com>; "guhasb@gmail.com" <guhasb@gmail.com>; "pressministerwash@yahoo.com" <pressministerwash@yahoo.com>; "muhanazm@yahoo.com" <muhanazm@yahoo.com>; "dr.dipumoni@gmail.com" <dr.dipumoni@gmail.com>; "drmohsinali@yahoo.com" <drmohsinali@yahoo.com>; "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>; Alochona Group <alochona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [notun_bangladesh] Will the BNP strike a deal with New Delhi?

Sir, In democracy, you oust a government with people' mandate! The days of 1970-80s are gone. With Arab spring roaring around, a small fiery bazzar suicide can ignite the whole country in anytime. That is called people' power! Striking a deal with Indians and Americans would not be a deciding factor for winning an election. But, if you do not get along with your immediate bigger neighbor and world's top cop, US, you would not bring success to your country unless you are a big country with huge oil and gas reserve.  Obviously, we are none of that sort except we got a booming population with finite area.

The question is whether Tareque would be the same old wine in new bottle? Whether he would be more interested in stealing than ruling? Whether he is a democrat with his own mind or he be manipulated by Jamatis? In later scenario, he would be considered a dead man on arrival. You may win the election but may not be able to rule! For weaker states, the rules are already in place! We have no choice but to follow the rules. Or, else, we become the Somalias and Pakistans of the world. Even God would abandon us!

BNP/Jamat should tone down the rhetoric and show that they are responsible party and ready to take over the power in next election. Boycotting parliament and forcing people to observe Hartals every other day is not a good sign from a responsible party. BNP cadres might like thrill of burning buses and destroying properties but people don't!
Good Day!
-SD
 
 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
 
From: Mohiuddin Anwar <mohiuddin@netzero.net>
To: manik195709@yahoo.com; ovimot@yahoogroups.com; shahdeeldar@yahoo.com; syed.aslam3@gmail.com; syed.aslam3@gmail.com; shahdeeldar@yahoo.com; ovimot@yahoogroups.com
Cc: srbanunz@gmail.com; jnsr53@yahoo.com; subimal@yahoo.com; guhasb@gmail.com; pressministerwash@yahoo.com; muhanazm@yahoo.com; dr.dipumoni@gmail.com; drmohsinali@yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 6:49 AM
Subject: Fw: [notun_bangladesh] Will the BNP strike a deal with New Delhi?


My understanding is that if needed to oust Awami League from the power BNP should make a deal with India and USA(with some conditions) as Awami League did in the past.After all
they can influence forming future government in Bangladesh.I beleve that process has been initiated already.
 

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: "mimunshi" <MBIMunshi@gmail.com>
To: notun_bangladesh@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [notun_bangladesh] Will the BNP strike a deal with New Delhi?
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 16:50:38 -0000

 
Will the BNP strike a deal with New Delhi to keep Tareque Rahman involved in politics?
I have refrained from writing on Bangladesh politics for the good part of 3 years but recent developments have impressed upon me the urgency of finding an answer to the question raised. Will the BNP ultimately strike a deal with New Delhi to keep Tareque Rahman in politics? The question is not as outrageous as it may initially seem, since Indian interests appear increasingly to coincide with that of the BNP. The ultimate objective of both is to keep US involvement and influence in the region to an absolute minimum. There are here four important factors at play that is bringing India and the BNP closer together: (1) Private US expressions of a deep and abiding aversion to Tareque Rahman's involvement in Bangladesh political life; (2) Western displeasure and vocal criticism of the present AL government which could eventually lead to it's downfall or a massive elections defeat in 2013; (3) US military presence in the South Asian region could potentially ignite tensions with China which neither India or the BNP would find desirable at this point in time or at any time in the near future;  (4) A military role (albeit limited like in 1/11) in Bangladesh politics (which could actually aid US military interests in the country) that neither India or the BNP would find acceptable and which could become a distinct possibility if the country continues on the present destructive path chosen by a highly irrational and vindictive Awami League. All four points have to be factored in when considering an answer to the question posed above. 
FULL ARTICLE �
 
 


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               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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[mukto-mona] Re: Unable to deliver your message



 
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Dr. Yunus - Not the Founder of Grameen Bank

Yunus has tremendous business skill whic to a great extent involves people skill. By combining his business skill with leadership and vision he has accomplished an almost impossible task. He started a pilot project in 1976 on rural finance with the help from his graduate students using resources of the rural banks of the country. Although it was successful, the banks did not continue collaboration with him. It was non-AL era. Having failed to earn confidence of the local banks, he turned to the donors to start Grameen bank in 1983. Now it is a big thing. It has been said that GB gives interest free loan even to beggars! I am aware that GB has all kinds of grade---from A to F---from the reviewers. But my point is that he has the business talent which he potentially could use the Romney way. His mistake was that he went to the wrong people at a wrong time. 

From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "subimal@yahoo.com" <subimal@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Dr. Yunus - Not the Founder of Grameen Bank

Dr. Yunus is not exactly a Václav Havel type, who could charm the citizens and produce a bloodless velvet revolution in Chechoslovakia. Dr. Yunus is an academician with no political skill. It is strange that he could dare to take on these two dynastic leaders in their own turfs. A fatal mistake from his side and it would be better to patch up strained relations and continue his own work. I do not see why it would be so important for him to the leader of that bank. He can easily create an institute in no time.
-SD   
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:50 AM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Dr. Yunus - Not the Founder of Grameen Bank

 
Yunus angered both AL and BNP by supporting the "Minus 2" Theory and aspiring to become the president of the country through a questionable election. With him as the puppet head of the government, we would have got virtually an army rule. BNP should be thankful that it has not happened. It is now using Yunus issue as a propaganda against AL. If BNP ever comes to power, it will not do any thing for Yunus. 

From: Mohiuddin Anwar <mohiuddin@netzero.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; qarahman@netscape.net; manik195709@yahoo.com; shahdeeldar@yahoo.com; shahadathussaini@hotmail.com; aanis06@yahoo.com
Cc: ovimot@yahoogroups.com; abid.bahar@gmail.com; faruquealamgir@gmail.com; dr.dipumoni@gmail.com; drmohsinali@yahoo.com; obaidul.quader@gmail.com; jnrsr53@yahoo.com
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Dr. Yunus - Not the Founder of Gra meen Bank

Honorable Dr. Yunus was acceptable to most Bangladeshis until Hasina dropped him from Grameen Bank. All Awami/Baksalis now criticizing Dr. Yunus and following
Hasina's step. this is unfortunate for all Bangladeshis. My understanding is that if he joined BAL(Bangladesh Awami League) or supported Awami/Baksali
agenda he could been still the CEO of Grammen Bank.
 Awami's repect Indian Noble Laurate Amartya Sen but hate Bangladeshi Noble  winner Dr. Yunus.
Even Amaratya receives state honor by Hasina regime. Anything Indian 'dear'  to the Awami/Baksalis.
 
 
--------- Original Message ----------
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Dr. Yunus - Not the Founder of Grameen Bank
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 12:09:10 -0400 (EDT)

 
You want me to give a pass to Dr. Yunus because he is a Bangladeshi and got a prize for us? He got prize on what basis? Why can't he defend his own economic model? Why can't he improve his model? Why can't he setup an Institute (Yunus) with his prize money? Even international donors would shower him with money. What is he waiting for?


>>>>>>>> Nope. just go ahead and drag him down to mud. Who needs an enemy when we have such "Assets" within......

I am sure, you have the intellect to critic his work. Also feel free to show us how he fooled the whole world (The Americans, Canadians, Indians, Saudis, Chinese, South Americans etc).

Knock yourself out my friend!!

Shalom!
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: alochona <alochona@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, May 25, 2012 4:16 am
Subject: [mukto-mona] Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Dr. Yunus - Not the Founder of Grameen Bank

 
 
As a brilliant economist, Dr. Yunus should be able to withstand some critics. More garlands to a man for his Nobel peace price is basically redundant and should be avoided. Even brilliant Milton Friedman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Friedman)  was attacked vehemently for his economical theories. You want me to give a pass to Dr. Yunus because he is a Bangladeshi and got a prize for us? He got prize on what basis? Why can't he defend his own economic model? Why can't he improve his model? Why can't he setup an Institute (Yunus) with his prize money? Even international donors would shower him with money. What is he waiting for?
-SD     
 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
From: Emanur Rahman <emanur@rahman.com>
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 6:45 PM
Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] Re: Dr. Yunus - Not the Founder of Grameen Bank

 
It is in our nature to pull back down into the dirt those who achieve more than us. It's a national trait.

Shah Deeldar and Rahaat Khan are doing this with Prof Yunus.

BNP have done this quite successfully with Zia.

BAL have been the most successful with Bangabandhu.

It is as equally gratifying as it is disappointing that 40 years on the stereotypes continue to hold true.

Well done.

Emanur Rahman, UK


-----Original Message-----
From: alochona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:alochona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ezajur
Sent: 23 May 2012 08:08
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Dr. Yunus - Not the Founder of Grameen Bank

I don't understand Shah Deeldar. He says Yunus got the award for what he did but then says he failed to do anything with the award. What was he supposed to do with the award? Give it to Hasina?

There are a lot of chamchas who discuss Dr Yunus without any reference to Hasina. These chamchas did not complain when he got the award. These chamchas did not complain before he got the award. But the moment Hasina took revenge against him for daring to enter politics -

all the chamchas joined in the hounding of Dr Yunus.

--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, Shumon Ahmed <shumonoh@...> wrote:
>
> The contribution of Dr Yunus is more than any political party of Bangladesh specially BAL. That's why Dr. Hasina is so jealous. As the BAL thieves already destroyed all the organization of Bangladesh and they have little left to steal from, now they need the Grameen profitable organizations (over 30)Â and they want to start stealing from there.
> Noble prize committee knows more than any of us about the candidate
> before awarding the prize. The prize is not based on future
> accomplishment but the past achievement.Â
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@...>
> To: "alochona@yahoogroups.com" <alochona@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 8:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Dr. Yunus - Not the Founder of Grameen Bank
>
>
> Â
> Look, Norwegian Nobel committee knows the exact quality of the man. Needless to say that not all Nobel prizes are equals. Dr. Yunus was given the prize for a good cause but he has totally failed to do anything with that Gold medal. A sad story indeed!
>
> -SD
>
>
> "All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Modasser Hossain <bolonhome@...>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 9:11 PM
> Subject: [ALOCHONA] Dr. Yunus - Not the Founder of Grameen Bank
>
>
> Â
>
> Â
>
> Dr. Yunus - Not the Founder of Grameen Bank
>
> Â
> -Rahaat Khan
> Â
> Â
> Dr. Yunus’s case related to Grameen Bank is now pending with the Supreme Court. The hearing is adjourned for two weeks from 15th March, 2011. Naturally, any opinion on this sub-judiced matter is prohibited in the eye of law. Hence, I will only put forward some of my personal observation on Dr. Muhammad Yunus and his activities.
> Â
> A man of high esteem, Dr. Yunus has definitely glorified our nation
> for his Nobel Peace award. And we, being Bangladeshis feel proud of him. But there is a slight misnomer with his reputation. Dr. Yunus is frequently recognized as the founder of Grameen Bank. But the fact does not entirely go with this. The Government of Bangladesh has constituted this specialized bank in 1990 in purview with the existing rules of the land and under the provisions and supervision of Bangladesh Bank. As such, Dr. Yunus may, by large, be considered as the founder managing director of the said bank, not the founder. Any way, he is all in all in the Grameen Bank and his hilarious effort in marketing this bank is enormous. Like many other, it also strikes me that why Dr. Yunus was not interested to have a successor although there was a heresy that for sometime, Khaled Shams, a renowned banker was deemed to the next role leader. But in one fine morning Mr. Shams was removed from this bank and also it was not clear whether he was engaged in any of Grameen’s projects. Anyway, the next name we came across was some Dipal Borua but that too been a faded name for a long while. No doubt, Dr. Yunus’s contribution to the Grameen Bank is fathomless. But it is also an undeniable fact that an institution requires a generation of successive leadership for its sustenance. But we did not spot Mr. Yunus being attentive to this at all. Why? This may be better known to him but my understanding along with many others slates this not as a failure on Dr. Yunus’s part to realize it rather the very wish of life long governance over the institution of even the intention of doing whatever he feels like with this specialized bank.
> Â
> This is a common place that everyone retires after a certain period of service. But the very effort of Dr. Yunus testifies that he wants a life time managing directorship for Grameen Bank. Seemingly, his departure from this grand comradeship will husk a griddling fate to 80 lakh poor people. Mr. Yunus is now 71. Does every death spare any Nobel laureate? If so be the fact, and also the fact remains Dr. Yunus’s absence from Grameen Bank, shatters the fate of 80 lack poor people, naturally people should witness his immortality for the sake of Grameen Bank and the poor. But is that possible?
> Â
> Defying all these Dr. Yunus requires to be on top of the Grameen Bank.
> It isn’t only because of the dignity of this Nobel laureate, but to the best of my knowledge, rather because of many inter and intra continental trade conglomeration. Okay, there is no harm in such strategic partnership. But many indicates on the unfair pledge especially where any specialized financial institution like Grameen Bank enjoys the provision of non-compliance collateral or equity principles and tax rebate. As such it earned an unequival competitive advantage to override other similar businesses in the market for which it was not meant, rather, the special arrangements on part of the regulators came out of the belief that micro financing and micro credit would be an epitome to relieve poverty. But what our experience narrates is nothing but the tale of an ugly game. When it is expected that Dr. Yunus being a Nobel laureate would do justice to his own dignity more specifically when the awards goes for peace making. But it didn’t go along that line. Mr Yunus didn’t off shoulder his responsibility until he was officially removed by the Bangladesh Bank. Some Western allies including the Friends of Grameen started lobbying and seemed to be very much resolutative for holding his position as MD of the Grameen Bank. Disaster without Yunus!
> Â
> Now, the question is, whose disaster the allies think it to be?
> Anyway, I restrain myself from commenting on that. Just to raise a little point on the validity of the policy statements of an institution which claims to have a pivotal role in poverty alleviation where the interest rate is 35 to 40 per cent and more interestingly these loan arrangements are triggered towards to the people living below the poverty line. Doesn’t it sound like an impractical imagination? As if a fool dwelling in a paradise! Against this backdrop of Grameen Bank, there are many NGOs in Bangladesh (e.g. BRAC, PROSHIKA, Nijera Kori, KARITAS etc.) which have a long legacy of success story on issues like poverty alleviation, reducing child mortality and pregnant women, population control, women empowerment, development of sanitation in rural and slum areas etc. Does the Grameen Bank record any visible contribution to the above-mentioned programmes or areas with its high-rated interest provision? Then, it is not an exaggeration or over-statement that the Grameen Bank effort was more focused on financial transaction based on a mercenary-like attitude and style than effective poverty alleviation.
> Â
> Despite all these, Dr. Yunus was awarded Nobel peace price for his
> `contribution’ to poverty alleviation and helping reducing the threat of anarchy due to extreme poverty in society thus bringing smiles to millions of faces in rural Bangladesh. This Nobel price in fact struck many conscious minds. A man who has never uttered a single word protesting against the 1971 genocide by Pakistan, rather stayed in USA to remain in safe zone; who has always kept aloof during natural and political calamities in Bangladesh (only except the post one-eleven incident). Rather, it is him, the man who has little visible contribution to poverty alleviation rather but for conceptualizing micro credit to the poor with an enormous interest rate and thus became a mercenary Dr. Yunus who has been awarded the Nobel Peace price for peace? What else could this be called than just doing a mimic to peace by the Nobel granting committee? I have always praised Mr. Yunus as a successful entrepreneur; however, I still have some reservations and queries regarding him:
> Â
> A Bangladeshi by birth, why Dr. Yunus never has visited our national mausoleum in Savar, or shrine of the Father of the Nation Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman? Nor have we ever seen him saying anything regarding Bangabandhu. His snobbish attitude and disregard to Bangabandhu and all glorious achievements of Bangalee nation hurt me the most. Should such a personality deserve respect? Moreover, the man who intended to brand all politicians as corrupt during the post one-eleven scenario; and who consented to take responsibility of ruling the country but with an assurance for 10-year stay in power has been much downgraded from his dignity and esteem. Time will say what will be the legal fate of Dr. Yunus. But Mr. Yunus, you have lost much of the glare of a Nobel laureate by now. This is really a misfortune for the whole nation.
> Â Â
> Â
> Â Â Â
>

------------------------------------

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