__._,_.___
Mr. QR has now taken a communalist turn. He has now an absurd proposition: Islamic history to a Muslim and a non-Muslim may not be same!
>>>>>>>>>> NO. I reluctantly decided to lecture some of you (Who are acting like a spoiled kid in this forum) about being RATIONAL.
It is very LOGICAL/RATIONAL to think that, a common Muslim will have a little more knowledge about Islam than an average non-Muslim. Similarly a common non-Hindu would most likely know less than a Hindu person about Mahabharat.
I also reluctantly wanted to remind you that, I do not have unlimited time for silly people who have nothing better to do.
He is now playing a trick
>>>>>>>>> Member Rahman will be answering to this very SILLY statement. However I do not think I have the power to play "Tricks" on anyone. Playing games or tricking people comes easily to those who aim to do such things with others.
Shalom!
-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 29, 2013 4:53 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Christmas' Pagan Origins
Most of Islamic history has been constructed by people who are not Muslims. Hence the opinion of a blockhead does not matter.
Sent from my iPadMr. QR has now taken a communalist turn. He has now an absurd proposition: Islamic history to a Muslim and a non-Muslim may not be same! He is now playing a trick to have Dr. Anisur Rahman whom I consider to be a free thinker on his side on this issue. I will earnestly request Dr. Rahman to make a comment on this.
Sent from my iPhoneDear members,
I was talking to member Anisur Rahman (Who probably has a little more knowledge of Islamic history).
Now, we were talking about RELIGIOUS history!!
So it is ONLY natural (And LOGICAL) both (RELIGION and HISTORY) will come up in the conversation. I do understand coming from non-Muslim background, some of you do not understand some of these established facts. It is OK with me and I am only trying to share information about it. I have no intention to convert you here.
So take whatever make sense to you and you are welcome to disagree with the rest.
I do not have unlimited time to walk you through maturity with some of you and I am comfortable with that!!
May peace be unto all of you.
-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Dec 28, 2013 8:43 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Christmas' Pagan Origins
Look, any logical argument you would like to make with this QR will only bound to end up like the one that you are having right now. It is obscene and absurd without any limit. This man world knowledge does not go beyond his book and its some outrageous interpretations. He has been serving the forum with these idiotic answers without any critical thinking or analysis. Just simply ignore this man if you can as suggested by Dr. Das. Thank you.
-SD
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss
On Saturday, December 28, 2013 7:34 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
Mixture of history and myth make it difficult to filter the real truths. Was Prophet Adam the first Man? If he was, when and where was he born? Was technology advanced enough at that time to build a mosque?Where was Abraham born? In present time Iraq! About 2000 years before Christ was born? Is there any historical evidence that he went to Mecca to reestablish the mosque? What was the time gap between the first construction and the reconstruction?History must not be replaced with faith.
Sent from my iPhoneThank you for sharing.
understand where you are coming from.
Actually a little more context is important to get the whole picture. According to some theologians The Masjid at Mecca was established by prophet Adam (PBUH). Later Abraham and his son Ishmael (PBUT) re-established it. Both were well known for being strict monotheist. Later pagans took over the holy mosque and had some of the original practices (Like tawaf ) within that practice. In fact some of them used to be absolutely NUDE while doing that tawaf as well. Muslim historians noted that part as well.
Here is a little bit on it from an article....
Hajj and its rites were first ordained by Allah in the time of the Prophet lbrahim [Abraham] and he was the one who was entrusted by Allah to build the Kaba - the House of Allah - along with his son Ismail [Ishmael] at Makkah. Allah described the Kaba and its building as follows:"And remember when We showed Ibrahim the site of the [Sacred] House [saying]: Associate not anything [in worship with Me and purify My House for those who circumambulate it [i.e. perform tawaaf] and those who stand up for prayer and those who bow down and make prostration [in prayer etc.]."
[Surah Al-Hajj 22:26]
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) established the original way of worshiping Allah (SWT) as envisioned by his forefather Abraham (PBUH). Jewish theologians considers Abraham as the "Originator" of Judaism (Which preached strict monotheism like Islam).
Therefore, calling hajj "Originated" from pagan origin is inaccurate but it was intended by our spiritual father Abraham to be worshiped to ONE TRUE GOD only.
Therefore, I think re-prasing it would be more accurate. While it is true pagans took over the holy masjid at Mecca but they did not "Originate" the rituals of hajj, rather hajj rituals carries many original instructions of propohet Abraham (PBUH) even today.
Islam originated with the base ideal of monotheism and anyone who feels it's otherwise may miss the foundation of Islam (Thinking Islam ever allowed or accepted any concept about making partners with our Creator).
My two cents.....
Shalom!
-----Original Message-----
From: ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 25, 2013 10:01 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Christmas' Pagan Origins
On page 187 of the 'A History of God' by Karen Armstrong, she said, I quote, "In 630 the city of Mecca opened its gates to Mohammad who was able to take it without bloodshed. In 632, shortly before his death, he made what has been called the Farewell Pilgrimage in which he Islamised the old Arabian pagan rites of the hajj and made this pilgrimage, which was so dear to the Arabs, the fifth pillar of the religion."
Remember that there were a large number of pagans in Arabia at that time and accepting pagan rites in Islam was to encourage them to the new religion, Islam. The Jews, however, stuck steadfastly to their religion. Even then quite a few Jewish rites had been assimilated in Islam, when Mohammad went to Medina to escape Qurayshi persecution of Muslims in Mecca.
I hope this will satisfy you.
- Anis Rahman
মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ has posted a new item,
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কয়েক মাস আগে মুক্তমনায় একটি
লেখায় মন্তব্যের থ্রেডে জাতীয়
পতাকার অবমাননা নিয়ে একটা
বিতর্ক হয়েছিলো। সেই সময়ে
জামাত-শিবির দেশের দেশের
কোনখানে জাতীয় পতাকা পোড়ানোতে
অনেকে খুব উজ্জীবিত হয়ে
উঠেছিলো। স্বাধীন দেশে এতোবড়ো
একটা তীব্র অপমান সহ্য না করতে
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ফেলেছিলো চেতনাধারীরা। সে
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Sankar da, here's an excerpt from an Indian Muslim blogger/journalist . . . ~ ~ Happy New Year ~ ~ Farida
I have been pondering over the step to form an NGO " Wakf Protection and Restoration Movement " and formation of a new political party to work for bringing in changes in the system and make such institutions which are better equipped and sensitive to Human Rights of the citizens.I will appeal to persons wanting to help me bring these changes contact me on my mail ID siddiquiahmedsohail@gmail.com .
Kerjriwal and Anna Hazare biggest threat to Human Rights
The Aam Admi Party plank is straight out of the World bank Agenda blue print to capture third world countries economies. The World has been financing Kejriwal owned NGO's and has given him the services of Awas.org which has promoted him through emails and social media campaigns of India against corruption.The world over fights in name of corruption such as those launched by Kejriwal and Anna Hazare are sponsored by World Bank [IMF] to maintain their grip on the economies of such countries.This writer during the Anna Kejriwal movement had exposed the link between Anna,Kejriwal team with Dr.Manmohan Singh a former World Bank employee.
The sudden upstaging of these people on Indian political scene and now evident with Kejriwal even leading his Aap to form government in National capital Delhi and his attempts to capture India have begum in the name of giving corruption free government. But even a layman can mark that the Multinational corporate's which are behind Kejriwal and Anna Hazare cannot hide their open affiliations.Thus any amount of claims among the innocent youth who have been trapped by surrendering to their imagination of wanting removal of corrupt politicians all over India and replace the system with corruption free politicians cannot work until the corrupt Business houses to leave the scene.It is here that Kejri and Anna Hazare is in fix as they are the indirect products of Big Multinationals controlling World Bank Agenda and IMF. The other hidden agenda and strength of Kejriwal and Anna Hazare is support from RSS cadre through slogans with communal history " Bharat Mata Ki Jai" and "Vande Mataram".
RSS Game
Again the RSS with its surrendering Swadeshi Agenda during Vajpayee tenure is using Kejriwal to invite Global Zionist Multinational companies like Walmarts to loot India and let RSS implement its non-inclusive Agenda through Kejriwals by keeping the BJP and Congress out of power.The other option open before RSS is to blindly support Modi fascism backed by Desi corporations afraid of foreign competition and non-protective regimes.The Ambani's,Tata's,Goenka's,Birla's etc have had thousands of crores of subsidies and protection with out giving any products of international order.They have progress only because of protections from the ruling parties as I call them Brahman parties,Brahman governments and Brahman Business houses.[ NDA and UPA ].
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