Banner Advertiser

Saturday, June 29, 2013

Re: [mukto-mona] Now, We are alone!



Thank you for bringing up the Neanderthal  issue. Did we wipe them out? Yes, we are/were capable of such ruthlessness but my guess would be that they disappeared gradually as many other species have been disappearing for many thousand years. We were probably at fault but only, indirectly? A simple incurable virus or bacteria may have sealed Neanderthals' fate? As I see, our human race are diverging with the faster accumulation of many new mutations and new phenotypes. Now, if some of our races get vanished in another ten thousand years, I would not be surprised. The nature has the last say whether we can keep our same form and survive for another hundred thousands years. The question is whether a different intelligent species (a highly mutated viable human species enough to be called as a new species?) would take over the world and shed some tears for us and move further or all that progress that we have made disappears with our own disappearance?
-SD 

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 6:31 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Now, We are alone!

 
Throughout the history of life on Earth, more than 99.99% of all species that once roamed  in "this stage" are extinct. Even about thirty to forty thousand years ago, two different species of Humans lived side by side.  Now, we are alone!  The "ONLY" remaining species of Homo (Homo sapiens), waiting for extinction!

---------------------------------

Why did the Neanderthals die out?

A major conference in London this week will reveal the results of five years' research on why Homo sapiens emerged triumphant in the survival battle of the humans

The puzzle is one of the greatest surrounding our species. On a planet that bristled with different types of human being, including Neanderthalsand the Hobbit-like folk of Flores, only one is left today: Homo sapiens.
Our current solo status on Earth is therefore an evolutionary oddity – though it is not clear when our species became Earth's only masters, nor is it clear why we survived when all other versions of humanity died out. Did we kill off our competitors, or were the others just poorly adapted and unable to react to the extreme climatic fluctuations that then beset the planet?
These key issues are to be tackled this week at a major conference at the British Museum, in London, called When Europe was covered by ice and ash. At the meeting scientists will reveal results from a five-year research programme using modern dating techniques to answer these puzzles.
In particular, researchers have focused on the Neanderthals, a species very close in physique and brain size to modern humans. They once dominated Europe, but disappeared after modern humans emerged from our African homeland around 60,000 years ago. The question is: why?
"A major problem in understanding what happened when modern humans appeared in Europe has concerned the dates for our arrival," said Professor Chris Stringer, of the Natural History Museum, London. "It was once thought we appeared in Europe around 35,000 years ago and that we coexisted with Neanderthals for thousands of years after that. They may have hung on in pockets – including caves in Gibraltar – until 28,000 years ago, it was believed."
In other words, there was a long, gradual takeover by modern humans – an idea that is likely to be demolished at this week's conference, Stringer said. Results from the five-year research programme, Reset (Response of humans to abrupt environmental transitions), will show that modern humans arrived much earlier than previously estimated and that Neanderthals expired earlier than we thought. Careful dating of finds across Europe suggest Homo sapiens could have reached Europe 45,000 years ago. Five thousand years later, Neanderthals had largely disappeared.





__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: Fwd: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video// Let us look at women in Secular country



QR is a peace loving man, but - he cannot admit any flaw in his religion that may be causing intra- or inter- faith problems. If he does admit, that will disprove the myth about the divinity of his religion. How could something that came from Allah be a source of problem?

Therefore, you can point out problems of religion as you wish, but, he cannot admit their existences. So, he has to either sugar coat them so they do not smell so bad or consider them as unauthentic information or call people "haters of Islam" if they point out too many problems. The bottom line is - he is not for solution, he is for status quo.
 

Jiten Roy





From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video// Let us look at women in Secular country

 
Good observation by Dr. Sukhamaya Bain. Let me tell you a true story. It is about Jehova Witness. A mother gave birth to a son who needed blood to survive. His parents being followers of Jehova Witness are against transfusion of blood. The doctor would not listen to the parents. The parents brought the Father of the church to intervene. The doctor refused to talk to the Father. The Father asked the doctor to give the son on the lap of the mother so that a hug would cure the son. The doctor did not listen to him. He gave the child blood and he survived. As a doctor he did a first class job. The lesson is that even the mother has absolutely no right to risk the life of his own son. The son did not know even what Jehova Witness is. This happened in America. 
I agree. By personal life I mean absolutely one's own personal life. No coercion.  

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video// Let us look at women in Secular country
 
Interesting statement, "Let religion, wherever applicable, be the complete code of personal life"!
 
If it is "wherever applicable", it cannot be "complete code." Of course, practically no human life is totally personal. For example, when one imposes/brainwashes his daughter to cover herself up head to toe, he is going beyond a personal life, even though he is not making a political statement. He surely is impeding the growth, comfort and wisdom of someone else (the daughter). In a good human system (society/state), the father would not be allowed to make such an imposition/brainwashing on the child.
 
==================================== 
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video// Let us look at women in Secular country
 
"Do understand I am NOT promoting Sharia but I am not happy with our law and order situation. Again I had the same feeling when BNP was in power as well. Nothing to do with current politics or political party. We need fundamental changes to improve our infrastructure in police, courts etc."----QR
Thanks. Please do not promote Sharia. Please do not let the illiterate and half-literate mollahs play with the lives of our people. Do as much as you can to improve upon the current law of the land and guarantee proper implementation of the same. Improvement will obviously be guided by the accumulated knowledge and wisdom of all the great including great religious figures, thinkers and reformers like Buddha, Ashoka, Jesus, and Muhammad. Enough is enough. Let religion, wherever applicable, be the complete code of personal life and not be an instrument of politics. 

 
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 9:12 AM
Subject: Fwd: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video// Let us look at women in Secular country
 
I accidentally hit send BEFORE my answer was finished. This is the full post.


-
In taunting people currently you seem to be the best in the forum. Let me try one more time.

>>>>>>> You are too generous. I am just learning from the best in this forum. Not good at it. 1. Will Sharia be discriminatory in a multi-religious country? >>>>>> Yes. Most Sharia laws applies to Muslims ONLY. Non-Muslims do not have to pay Zakat, pray five times a day or fast for a month. However they cannot join hands with attacking enemies (So treason is forbidden). Non-Muslims are exempt from most Sharia requirements. 2. Do the Muslim citizens of Bangladesh prefer Sharia court to our current judicial system? >>>>>>>>>>> I cannot speak for all people of Bangladesh. However I think most people are like me. We feel Sharia is a valid system with great solutions but we are yet to see a political platform which have enough required skill or dedication to deliver it. 3. Can a Sharia court (not in America, but in a country where it is in force) include a woman? >>>>>>>>>> yes.4. Can the victim and the accused have hire lawyers as is commonly practiced in non-Sharia countries? >>>>>>>>>> As far as I know they can. 5. Can the wife utter the word "talak"? >>>>>>> As long it is included in the marriage contract. 6. How many eye witnesses does a rape victim need to prove that she was raped? >>>>>>>>>>> I think you know the answer to it. Other than accused person, it is generally four. If the accused person admits to the crime, even one is enough. There are some exceptions to this general rule, you will get more detailed answer from a scholar of Islam. 7. Do you consider public beheading, stoning to death, and chopping hands as primitive forms of punishment? >>>>>>>> No different than shooting or hanging. However do realize that, there are strong per-requisites for these punishment to take effect. Death penalty itself is tough concept for me but sometime it is needed for greater good of society.  8. Why do you think the current system is no justice at all?  >>>>>>>>>> It is almost inaccessible for poor, helpless people. It has a lot of room for improvement. If you watch the video of Biswajit murder, you will discover that police was standing and watching the whole thing. They assumed he was a jammat worker, which made it OK for those sub-humans. Similar things do happen to many people and they do not get any justice at all. Do understand I am NOT promoting Shria but I am not happy with our law and order situation. Again I had the same feeling when BNP was in power as well. Nothing to do with current politics or political party. We need fundamental changes to improve our infrastructure in police, courts etc. Shalom!
-----Original Message----- From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Jun 28, 2013 5:58 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video// Let us look at women in Secular country
 
In taunting people currently you seem to be the best in the forum. Let me try one more time.
1. Will Sharia be discriminatory in a multi-religious country?
2. Do the Muslim citizens of Bangladesh prefer Sharia court to our current judicial system?
3. Can a Sharia court (not in America, but in a country where it is in force) include a woman?
4. Can the victim and the accused have hire lawyers as is commonly practiced in non-Sharia countries?
5. Can the wife utter the word "talak"?
6. How many eye witnesses does a rape victim need to prove that she was raped?
7. Do you consider public beheading, stoning to death, and chopping hands as primitive forms of punishment?
8. Why do you think the current system is no justice at all?  

From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video// Let us look at women in Secular country
 
"We have been discussing pros and cons of Sharia and Islam in Bangladesh."-----QR
Not really. I am absolutely against Sharia Law in Bangladesh. Introduction of Sharia Law in a multi-religious country will be immoral, unethical, undemocratic, and hence unconstitutional

>>>>>>>>>> Brother, I feel you are overreacting for no reason. We are discussing the topic but none of us proposed sharia for Bangladesh. The world all of us live in, it is a relevant topic and it does not hurt anyone to have some basic understanding of the subject. I fully respect and understand your opinion about Sharia law but NO one proposed it here. So have some cool aid and relax for a sec. Will ya? Even if the religious minorities are kept outside of Sharia Law, a vast majority of the Muslims will resist it. As long as you will keep this system as an option, you will simply be acting as a divisive agent. >>>>>>>>>> I think you can have this conversation all by yourself!! You can propose it first and give us reasons why do you oppose it. lolAre you suggesting that West Bengal needs Sharia Law? Are you also suggesting that Taliban Afghanistan witnessed the best implementation of Sharia Law? If you are, I must say that out of frustration of the present law and order situation you are irrationally prescribing extreme solutions.  >>>>>>>>>>>> Did I? Again you are doing all the proposing here and getting mad. Very interesting monologue!! ;-)Nope I am simply analyzing the options we have. The news from West Bengal I shared happened within couple of weeks and it is getting worse.
Can a woman become a Sharia juror?
Still waiting for a response.
>>>>>>>> The peer jury system mainly practiced in the USA not in Bangladesh. So this question is irrelevant. I am not aware of the sharia stance about it in US context. Maybe because NO one ever proposed Sharia in the US!!Is Sharia biased against woman rape victims?
Still waiting for a response.
>>>>>>>> Still less biased than our current system we have. Which is mostly no justice at all. Is Sharia not biased against women in general? What is your comment on "tin talak"? >>>>>>>>>>>> Over 90% of Bangladeshi Muslims do not understand the tin talak issue. I learnt about it few years ago and it cannot be used in one go. Which means if two partners cannot stand each other, they have to reconsider three different times (After trying to work it out for no less than three times) a divorce is valid. So if someone utter talak out of anger, it is not valid. My questions are motivated by my reading of novels and stories, and watching movies and documentaries on the poor and illiterate sections of the Muslim society in Bangladesh. Last time I watched a film in Toronto on Sharia. It was made by Hassan Mahmud and I had an opportunity to meet him there. Are these all myths or facts? >>>>>>>>>> Our lack of knowledge about Islam and rights of women in Islam is mostly factual. When I visited rural Bangladesh and how people are dealing with religion is mostly sad. ALSO we have to do much more to educate our mass about right of our non-Muslim neighbors over us. We have to treat them with respect and fairness. The positive note is in last ten years Bangladesh made HUGE progress in this area. Today very educated young people and middle aged people are showing interest in authentic Islam and learning from scripture (Instead of Maulanas only). This is wonderful but we have to do much more to create a more harmonious soceity. How can some thing revealed from God lead to many schools of jurisprudence? How do you know that human intervention has not distorted divine revelations?  >>>>>>>>>>> Mostly it is only six or seven. Still they all agree with fundamental issues. Some freedom was given during the earliest days of Islam. Some issues came much later (For example how to pray when we are traveling in an aero plane). Shalom!
-----Original Message----- From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Jun 25, 2013 5:40 pm Subject: Re: Fwd: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video// Let us look at women in Secular country
 
"We have been discussing pros and cons of Sharia and Islam in Bangladesh."-----QR
Not really. I am absolutely against Sharia Law in Bangladesh. Introduction of Sharia Law in a multi-religious country will be immoral, unethical, undemocratic, and hence unconstitutional. Even if the religious minorities are kept outside of Sharia Law, a vast majority of the Muslims will resist it. As long as you will keep this system as an option, you will simply be acting as a divisive agent.    
 
"Let us take a look at secular democracies and how women are being treated. Here is a story from our neighbor."-----QR
Are you suggesting that West Bengal needs Sharia Law? Are you also suggesting that Taliban Afghanistan witnessed the best implementation of Sharia Law? If you are, I must say that out of frustration of the present law and order situation you are irrationally prescribing extreme solutions.  
 
Can a woman become a Sharia juror?
Still waiting for a response.
 
Is Sharia biased against woman rape victims?
Still waiting for a response.
 
Is Sharia not biased against women in general? What is your comment on "tin talak"?
 
My questions are motivated by my reading of novels and stories, and watching movies and documentaries on the poor and illiterate sections of the Muslim society in Bangladesh. Last time I watched a film in Toronto on Sharia. It was made by Hassan Mahmud and I had an opportunity to meet him there. Are these all myths or facts?
 
How can some thing revealed from God lead to many schools of jurisprudence? How do you know that human intervention has not distorted divine revelations?  
 
 
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 11:03 AM
Subject: Fwd: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video// Let us look at women in Secular country
 

We have been discussing pros and cons of Sharia and Islam in Bangladesh. Let us take a look at secular democracies and how women are being treated. Here is a story from our neighbor.
প্রসঙ্গ নারী-নির্যাতন
অস্বস্তি এড়াতে সমালোচনাই ঢাল মুখ্যমন্ত্রীর
নিজস্ব প্রতিবেদন

Source: http://anandabazar.com/24raj5.html


স্বস্তিটা রয়েই যাচ্ছে।
পার্ক স্ট্রিট, কাটোয়া থেকে কামদুনি, গেদে, কৈজুড়ি একের পর এক নারী নির্যাতনের ঘটনায় তোলপাড় রাজ্য-রাজনীতি। তা সামলাতে কখনও মুখ্যমন্ত্রী বলছেন সরকারের সক্রিয়তার কথা, কখনও সংবাদমাধ্যমের সমালোচনা করছেন, কখনও বিরোধীদের একহাত নিচ্ছেন, কখনও বা বিশিষ্টজনদের সাহায্য চাইছেন।
প্রশ্ন উঠেছে, কিন্তু অস্বস্তিটা কি এড়াতে পারছেন মুখ্যমন্ত্রী?
রবিবার আরও এক বার সেই প্রসঙ্গ উঠে এল উত্তর ২৪ পরগনার মিনাখাঁয় মমতা বন্দ্যোপাধ্যায়ের একটি জনসভার পরে। সেখানে কামদুনি-কাণ্ডের নাম না করে মুখ্যমন্ত্রী বলেন, "বারাসতে একটা ঘটনাকে নিয়ে মাতামাতি শুরু হয়েছে। টাকা নিয়ে স্নো-পাউডার মেখে অনেকে টিভির সামনে বসে এ নিয়ে কুৎসা করে যাচ্ছে। দু'একটা ছোট ঘটনাকেও বড় করে দেখানো হচ্ছে।" অনেকেই বলছেন, অস্বস্তি কাটাতেই সমালোচনাকে ঢাল করছেন মুখ্যমন্ত্রী।
নারী নির্যাতনের ঘটনাকে ছোট বা সাজানো ঘটনা তিনি এর আগেও বলেছেন। পার্ক স্ট্রিট-কাণ্ডের সময়ে মমতা বলেছিলেন, সাজানো ঘটনা। এর পরে কাটোয়ার ছোটরেলে ডাকাতির সময়ে মেয়ের মাথায় বন্দুক ঠেকিয়ে এক বিধবা মহিলাকে ট্রেন থেকে নামিয়ে নিয়ে গিয়ে ধর্ষণের অভিযোগ ওঠে দুষ্কতীদের বিরুদ্ধে। তখন মুখ্যমন্ত্রীর প্রতিক্রিয়া ছিল, "সাজানো ঘটনা। ওই মহিলার স্বামী সিপিএম করেন।" কিন্তু দেখা যায়, ওই মহিলার স্বামী দীর্ঘদিন আগেই মারা গিয়েছেন। এবং তিনি বাম-বিরোধী রাজনীতিই করতেন। 'ন্যাশনাল ক্রাইম রেকর্ডস ব্যুরো'-র সাম্প্রতিক রিপোর্ট অনুযায়ী, পশ্চিমবঙ্গ নারী নির্যাতনে প্রথম। ধর্ষণে সাজা দেওয়ার ক্ষেত্রেও এ রাজ্য ক্রমশ পিছিয়ে পড়ছে। গত বুধবার রাতে স্বরূপনগরের কৈজুড়িতে ধর্ষণে বাধা পেয়ে এক মহিলার যৌনাঙ্গে ভোজালি দিয়ে আঘাত করে দুষ্কৃতী। সেই ঘটনার পরে আতঙ্কে গ্রাম ছাড়তে শুরু করেছেন অনেকে।
এমন পরিস্থিতিতে সরকারের বিরুদ্ধে সরব হন বিরোধীরা। কামদুনি-কাণ্ডের পরে সরকারের সমালোচনায় পথে নামেন বিশিষ্টজনেরা এবং সাধারণ মানুষ। প্রশ্ন ওঠে কামদুনিতে গিয়ে মমতার আচরণ নিয়েও। জবাবে তিনি প্রশাসনের সক্রিয়তার দাবি তুলেছেন প্রতিটি সভায়। এ দিনও মিনাখাঁয় মমতা বলেন, "বামুনগোলায় ধর্ষণের ঘটনায় ২৭ দিনের মধ্যে চার্জশিট দেওয়া হয়েছে। দোষীর যাবজ্জীবন সাজা হয়েছে। বারাসতে ২৪ ঘণ্টার মধ্যে দুষ্কৃতীকে গ্রেফতার করা হয়েছে। এক মাসের মধ্যে চার্জশিট দিয়ে ফাঁসির দাবি করব আমরা।"
মুখ্যমন্ত্রী আরও দাবি করেছেন, রাজ্যের আইনশৃঙ্খলা পরিস্থিতি আগের থেকে ভাল হয়েছে। এ দিন তিনি বলেন, "বারুইপুর, রাজারহাট, কেশপুর, খানাকুল, ধানতলা এ সব জায়গায় যে একের পর এক ধর্ষণ হয়েছে, বিজন সেতুতে আনন্দমার্গীদের পুড়িয়ে মারা হয়েছে, কই তখন তো কাউকে দেখিনি? সিপিএমের সময়ে ধর্ষণের অভিযোগই থানায় করা যেত না। সব মহিলা কি ধর্ষিতা হচ্ছেন, না সব পুরুষ ধর্ষণের সঙ্গে যুক্ত? মিথ্যা, কুৎসা করার চেষ্টা হচ্ছে।" এর পরেই প্রশ্নটা উঠছে, তাঁর এ সব কথা অস্বস্তি ঢাকার ঢাল নয়তো?
And other news.....সত্যি বলছেন না মমতা, দাবি করল সিপিএম
=========================================================================================================================================Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
One of my humblest questions to Mr. Rahman was: Was Sharia code revealed to the prophet the same way as the Koranic verses were revealed to him?
>>>>>>>>>> Fundamentals of Shria are taken from the Qurán. There are verses in the Qurán about consuming halal food and prohibiting stealing etc. Some applications of the Sharia was demonstrated by prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Some application of laws are open for interpretations. Does this law vary from place to place and from time to time? Are there many versions of Sharia Law?  >>>>>>>> Fundamentals of Sharia is the same. However there are some differences in how they are applied. Those who follow imam Abu Hanifa (RA) follow Hanafi interpretations and others follow imam Malik (RA) etc. There are few different versions but fundamentals are the same. Every interpretation has to be true to the commands of the Qurán and authentic examples shown by prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Are beheading, stoning to death, chopping hands, etc. are all authentic and universal Sharia punishments? >>>>>>>>> You can say that. However the due process is important. Which means a court has to be sure of the crime before it is giving verdicts. Does Sharia Law treat differently the crimes of raping a minor girl, a minor boy, an unmarried woman, a married woman, and even raping one's own wife? If it does, how? The stories we hear indicate that Sharia is heavily biased against woman victims---is it true? >>>>>>>>> Law is not biased. However in less developed countries, the application can be less than perfect. Which is the reason I have reservation against applying Sharia in Bangladesh. Our checks and balances are not there. Our due process is corrupt and often laws are used to punish political or social opponent than real criminals. We cannot introduce Sharia in such an environment. We have to have  safeguards in place BEFORE we can even think of implementing Sharia. I do not say such things out of blind faith or blind obedience to any ideology.  Right now we live in a country which is pretty close to be called lawless. Therefore, Sharia certainly offer a great structure that has proven to be effective throughout history when it is applied with sincerity and honesty. Shalom!
-----Original Message----- From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2013 1:14 pm Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
 
It is hard to argue with some one with blind faith.
One of my humblest questions to Mr. Rahman was: Was Sharia code revealed to the prophet the same way as the Koranic verses were revealed to him?
Does this law vary from place to place and from time to time? Are there many versions of Sharia Law?  
Are beheading, stoning to death, chopping hands, etc. are all authentic and universal Sharia punishments?
Does Sharia Law treat differently the crimes of raping a minor girl, a minor boy, an unmarried woman, a married woman, and even raping one's own wife? If it does, how? The stories we hear indicate that Sharia is heavily biased against woman victims---is it true? 
Can a woman be included as Sharia juror?
 
I know the questions are not simple. Mr. Rahman, take time.
 
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
 
QR: "Sharia gives us a good solution. It also requires that, we punish people only after we are 100% sure of the crimes."
OK, now you can bag your Sharia Law. If you are 99.9% sure, what will you do in your Sharia System of Justice? For your information, it is humanly impossible, in most cases, to be 100% sure of the committed crimes; that's why modern laws have "beyond the reasonable doubt" clause in them. 

Also, I believe - it is a part of the Sharia Law that a raped victim has to find 4 witnesses to prove her allegation. Can this be ever achieved? So, the poor woman has no chance of winning in the Islamic court ever; rather she will get flogged or stoned for the allegation.  Your logical thoughts are forever fogged by your faith; you need help, my friend. These logic and faith cannot live side by side.

About the other comment about discussing religion in this forum; that's mainly for two reasons - 1) religion is the hottest topic now a days, and 2) there are people, like you, who bring religion in most conversations, mainly for promotional purposes.
Jiten Roy
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
 

Yes, you got it right; Q. Rahman is waiting, like a Hawk, for an opportune moment to implement Sharia Law in Bangladesh,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, if I was, I would said so. Many times I explained this topic. I think highly of Sharia. I also think highly of US constitution and our own. However it is more important HOW these laws are being applied. As I said, Muslims of Bangladesh are NOT serious about it. Most of the people who speak about Sharia says out of emotions. I knew this man who worked at a top multi-national company in Bangladesh. He would come over and just wanted to poke me. So he started speaking highly about Shorbohara party (Communists). I did not say much and said it is fine as long he was convinced about it. He kept talking about it. So one day I told him that, if communism became a reality, this man has to share him house with the care taker of his huge land he had and treat them much better. He also have to submit all of his property (He is a rich man and a powerful man) to the state. Since that day, he NEVER mention his love for communists. Sharia gives us a good solution. It also requires that, we punish people only after we are 100% sure of the crimes. In Bangladesh we have some fundamental issues with our judicial process and we have to fix them first. Regardless we ever implement Sharia in this country. Hopefully all of us can agree that, our judicial process have to improve and it has many structural issues. He also has a version Islamic Rule (Caliphate) suitable for Bangladesh, but, I am sure, he has strong objection for the RamRajjya in India.  >>>>>>>>> I have NEVER said anything about Caliphate here or anywhere. Also the hard cold fact is you should NOT compare Hinduism with Islam. Hinduism does NOT have any set of laws all Hindus agree on. The laws of Manu will be rejected by majority Hindus even before anyone propose it. Since they are contradictory, incomplete and racist in nature. Sharia has some issue with it's application but the laws themselves are very solid and fair to all population. Again, I am not trying to implement Sharia or even said anything in favor or against it. Shalom!
-----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 4:04 pm Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
 
Yes, you got it right; Q. Rahman is waiting, like a Hawk, for an opportune moment to implement Sharia Law in Bangladesh, in which everybody lives happily ever after, including other religious communities. He also has a version Islamic Rule (Caliphate) suitable for Bangladesh, but, I am sure, he has strong objection for the RamRajjya in India.  
Jiten Roy
 
  
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
 
You do not want Sharia law today. So you want it tomorrow! 
Can you tell us why Sharia law is sacred? Was this code revealed from God to the prophet? 
You are talking about high moral values. Who, if there are any at all, in this society have high moral values? When will the society have people of high moral values to lead us with Sharia law? How would you know that the time has come for Sharia law? 
Looks like you have in your vision an Islamic rule in Bangladesh! Correct me if I am wrong. 
Among all the Islamic parties in Bangladesh which one, if there is any, is eventually going to rule Bangladesh using the true Islamic model? 
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 18, 2013, at 11:51 PM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
Almost in every issue you bring Islam. That is fine admittedly annoying and boring though given the topics we discuss here. But you seem to make Islam the complete code of life including political one. Here lies the potential danger
>>>>>>>>> I think you are a little paranoid. Several times I said, albeit I feel Sharia offers good solution, I am NOT for implementing that platform in our country today. Collectively our moral standard is very low and there is a great chance of abuse of these sacred codes (Holy to Muslims). Pakistan period (And current state) is well known for abusing Islam. Unless we have value driven leaders and leaders who are aware of Islamic standards, they cannot be custodians of such laws. In the Qurán, it says even if your enemy stands in front of you, you have to be JUST (Be fair) to that enemy ( Source: Al Qur'an 5:8) Again if you admire the US constitution, you will know it says "All men are created equal...." at start BUT a good part of Americans were not treated equally (By law) for centuries. Until recently (As late as 1962) that civil rights movement attempted to correct previous mistakes. Similarly American women were not allowed to vote until 1920. Therefore, I am absolutely sure  that Sharia offers good solution for humanity BUT I am not for forcing it to anyone. I am for educating people and lawmakers about it. Until people want such changes in laws. Firstly if someone want to reject Sharia, they have to know something about it. In our case most people do not have any idea what it is but they reject it because Fox news told you it is bad!! Before the last election of the president, the chief of Islamic Oikyo Jote (an ally of AL) clearly said that he did not approve nomination of a woman for president. >>>>>>>>>> Kindly do NOT learn about Islam from such spineless people. If you like to know what Islam says, ask a good scholar or imam in your area. There is no harm in learning new things. I enjoyed reading Mahabharata when I was a kid. It did not diminish anything from me. When I learnt few verses of the holy Veda, it only increased my respect for Sanatana Dharma. I invite you do learn about Islam (Since you talk about it all the time). Shalom!
-----Original Message----- From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Jun 18, 2013 7:50 pm Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
 
Let me say a few words on the issue of second class citizenship in a theocratic or semi theocratic state. The humanity had to pay huge price before it realized that "separation of church and the state" should be the basic principle of a modern state. A religious state discriminates against religious minorities and women. Islamic Republic of Pakistan is an example. I still remember from 10th grade Civics that no nonMuslim can become the president of the country. I believe it is still valid. Muslim Brotherhood will not let a woman to become the head of the state. Before the last election of the president, the chief of Islamic Oikyo Jote (an ally of AL) clearly said that he did not approve nomination of a woman for president. 
Almost in every issue you bring Islam. That is fine admittedly annoying and boring though given the topics we discuss here. But you seem to make Islam the complete code of life including political one. Here lies the potential danger. Islam teaches great values no doubt, but don't let it be a tool in the hands of the Islamists. Islam is absolutely in no danger under the original 1972 constitution. Also there is no reason to believe that AL is less religious than it's opponents. 
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 17, 2013, at 6:46 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
brother lately you are being driven more with emotion than logic. Which is unlike your general self.

I have made some suggestions with the best of intention. I intellectually disagree with current course. However I am well aware that, I am not the one who will chart the course to address the issue. It has to be leaders from minority communities with a long term perspective for well being of their community and Bangladesh as well.

The Unity council consistantly tries to project Bangladesh as a heaven for Islamists and I strongly disagree with that narrative. It is counter productive and hurting OUR country. In the long run the Muslims of Bangladesh have to get involved in local levels and that will be the best protection. As history proven that, our politicians are more concern with their election over security of any community. So we the people have to unite for such noble causes. However when Islam is vilified, it is difficult for most Muslims to take part.

We are NOT fanatic but we are religious people. Recent election shown us religion has a role to play in our lives (From all communities) and any attempt to divorce religion from our lives will not be successful.

I only shared my ideas, do not need to get upset over it. Like you I also like see end of any injustice on anyone in our land.


10. Your duty is to protect the minority population by giving them a second class citizen status. Isn't it?

>>>>>>> No. I only want to offer them more secured and peaceful lives.

Shalom!
-----Original Message----- From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 16, 2013 2:16 pm Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
 
1. I am not sure if Guha is linked to the government. Is he really acting as an agent of the government? Even if he is, why are you trying to shut his mouth?
2. By saying the need to protect people of all religious backgrounds, you are resorting to a dangerous generalization. Looks like to you human rights activities specific to children, women, Hindus, etc. are superfluous. This is called intellectual dishonesty.
3. Even living in America (?) you are trying to be over patriotic. Looks like it is OK for you to accept criticism of American policies and actions by Americans, but you are not ready to tolerate Bangladeshi policies and actions to be criticized and protested by Bangladeshis. This is called double standard. With a great passion you listen to the news on the persecution of the Rohingya, but never advised them to go to the Myanmar government for the solution as they must not do any thing that will tarnish the image of the country. This is another example of your double standard.
4. Are you sure that D.C. rallies criticize Islam? As I know they criticize fanatic and Jihadi Islamists.
5. Foreign agencies do not have police. True. But they have money and power. This is not unknown to you. Don't pretend that the third world countries to not yield to foreign influence. Outside pressure works well sometimes. You should be aware of lobbyists being hired by Jamat-BNP group. It should not be unknown to you that some foreign governments and agencies have been trying to intervene in the trial of the collaborators. Have you said any thing against them?  
6. You are pretending that you have enough trust in the Home ministry. Thanks for being a truly a democratic and patriotic citizen.
7. You should be more specific about who are trying to "kick" Islam. 
8. This is a problem with the dishonest intellectuals who believe that people like Dr. Mizanur Rahman have to be ignored as whatever they say is a part of a political game. 
9. I have been noticing that: you have been sharing "authentic" Islamic values. I hope you have been doing this in forums run by fanatic and fundamentalist Islamic groups aslo.
10. Your duty is to protect the minority population by giving them a second class citizen status. Isn't it?
  
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 3:29 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
 
We have our attitude problems also. When Mr. Guha tells us the stories on minority persecution in Bangladesh, we have our cold reaction: Why are you saying this here! Go and tell the government. Pretty nice way to shirk the responsibility!
>>>>>>>>>>>> With all due respect, it became a habit of you to assume the worst in others. Nope, I said it to member Guha because he is well linked with government. Unless there is pressure to protect weak and vulnerable people in our community (Of all religious background), we cannot get there. When they go for rally and demonstration in D.C, we criticize them.




__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___