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Wednesday, November 12, 2014

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Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions



Pythagoras was born more than 2500 years ago. I have never claimed the superiority of the Bedouin "unculture"? Why has Das so much hatred for Arab culture? Iraq is an Arab country. Iraq's contribution to civilization is well known. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 12, 2014, at 8:23 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

I don't know what Das is talking about. Have I mentioned Algebra or Bedouin in any of my recent posts? He is just showing off as usual. Pythagoras was a student of Indian math and philosophy! I have to check. Any reference please. Pythagoras was born about 4000 years ago. Right? 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2014, at 8:42 PM, Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

The guy who 'invented' algebra called the system Indian Math. Even Pythagoras had been a student of Indian Math and Philosophy. S. Chakrabarty has his mindset on the superiority of the Bedouin un culture of the Arabs. We can always pardon an ill informed Brahmin for his lack of knowledge. Can't we, Dr. Roy?

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 11, 2014, at 7:42 PM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

"I am not inclined to take pride in some thing called Vedic math."
Look, Pal, Modi's message was for the people, like you, who are ashamed to take pride of their own heritages. When I tried to remind that point, some of you started to attack me without understanding my message. Someone even accused me of 'falsification,' which turned out to be meant for 'exaggeration.'
As I said before, Indus Valley civilization is one of the oldest civilizations in the world (5000 years old). When I tried to remind that heritage, you try to find excuses to demean them. Vedic era is ~3500 years old, it has brought so much enlightenment to people in that region, which people are still making use of. But, instead of being proud of them, you are bringing Chinese, Greek, and English literatures. This was the point Modi was making.
I know, if the same talk was given by President Kalam or Mukharjee, we would not be talking about it. So, it was not the message, but the messenger, that was wrong.
Look, when someone counter comments against mine, I look forward to learn something from it; this is just waste of time talking about something that should be obvious to all of you.
Jiten Roy

 

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

 
Ancient Indian scholars or (sages if you like the word) did real research on astronomy. That is what we need to talk about. I am not inclined to take pride in some thing called Vedic math. 
Sent from my iPhone



On Nov 10, 2014, at 6:12 AM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Well, Dr. Roy, I can accept that the imaginations of the Vedic stories were richer than their time. But when you suggest, for example, that "in-depth knowledge of astronomy ...... are all in the scriptural books", I find it more than exaggeration; it is falsification. BTW: Did Ganesh's body try to reject the elephant's head, as we see in modern transplant cases; or there was no such problem due to his mother's blessings? Now, don't get me wrong; I have been weak enough to think that the blessings of my parents did/could bring good things in my life; but I am not weak enough to think that such blessings by themselves could change established science.

Talking about some people being ahead of their time, I am willing to accept that Mohammad also was one such human. The problem that I see with the Muslims now is that too many of them proclaim his messages to be adequate for today's world.

Sukhamaya Bain

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 11/9/14, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, November 9, 2014, 10:02 PM

Dr. Bain, the problem with your
comments, most of the time,
is that you think out of context. Here, you
are judging Vedic stories against
modern science fiction stories. Vedic stories were at least
a few thousand
years old. How much
scientific sophistication do you expect from the people in
that era?  Did you
give a thought where rest of the world was when Vedic
stories were written?

When you read something from a thousand
year old
books, you need to think with reference to that era. Just
trashing them without careful consideration, you will
do injustice to those books.  

Do you know how Ganesh got his elephant
head? If
you do, you can compare that to the modern day
face-transplant. Many Vedic stories
deal with space-travel and space-warfare. If I remember
correctly, Megnad used to fight from behind the cloud. Have
you thought about how did those
fictional ideas came to them in those days? Now, compare the
standard of the Vedic people
with that of the people in the rest of the world in those
days. Only then, you will
realize how sophisticated they were. You found some falsifications in my
comments.  What are those false statements? If you tell
them, may be I can correct myself.

Jiten Roy

From: "Sukhamaya
Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]"
<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To:
mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November
9, 2014 7:04 PM
Subject: Re:
[mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

Here are
my comments on the quoted comments (below) by Dr. Jiten
Roy.

I see too much of conjecture, exaggeration, imagination and
falsification in Dr. Roy's comments. With the same kinds
of practice, religious people of other shades have been
making the claims that all kinds of knowledge can be found
in their religious books. The way I see them, the stories in
the Hindu scriptures are like poor quality science fictions,
based upon imagination. Compared to those, many of the
modern science fictions are based upon a good deal of
methodical thoughts, and upon technologies that actually
have been proven to work. That is why a lot of real science
and technology have their roots in science fictions.

BTW: As for Modi/BJP being a threat to secularism, people
need to realize that Modi/BJP is not like the fools/fanatics
that throw stones at the devil after praying to their God.
Even with their oxymoron of Hindutwa, they are a lot more
rational people than those who believe in the dogmatic
religions.

Sukhamaya Bain

==============================================================

From:

"Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]"

<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>

To:

"mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com"

<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>

Sent:

Saturday, 8 November 2014, 22:37

..........................."Indian civilization, in the
Vedic era, was much advanced than any other in the world.
Descriptions of inter-galactic movement through space-ship,
warfare with the most advanced weapons (airplanes, rockets,
missiles, etc.), in-depth knowledge of astronomy, and
astrology are all in the scriptural books, which depicted
the advancements of knowledge in those
days."...............................................




Posted by: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>



__._,_.___

Posted by: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions



How do you measure what is wrong and what is right? What Indian idea did he kill since he became PM? What would be your ideal state? India is not a totalitarian state that it should have one mantra and one standard of nationalism? Are you not falling into in your own trap? Modi got a mandate to rule his country in a democratic election. Let him carry out his tenure, please. As long as he performs for his people, nobody would care whether he is/was an extreme or moderate Hindu. If he were an extreme Hindu, would that make Pakistanis and Bangladeshis any better secular liberals? Human social progress does not occur in the vacuum.  The man is a product of subcontinent and he had seen everything during his six decades of life.
 





On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 6:15 PM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
I have no problem in being proud of Vedic literature because of its literary beauty. I have no problem in being proud of India's contribution to the field of math, astronomy, and chemistry. It has been said that india invented zero and contributed to trigonometry and arithmetic. Aryabhatta, Shustuta, Kanada, etc. are some of the names that we all should be proud of. I am saying all this from the top of my head. 
But I have problem in being proud of some thing nonsense like Vedic math. Why math has to be mixed with Vedas to infuse false pride! Vedas are great by themselves and so is Indian contribution to math. 

Changing constitution to make it worse is obviously wrong. But it is not less wrong to distort the meaning of nationalism. Modi is a tactful leader. I will say he is dynamic too. But we must not forget his RSS roots and that RSS is divisive. There will always be backward pull. Indians have to watch how Modi plays the balancing game. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2014, at 8:26 AM, Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
I do not see any problem people taking pride of their past. Some people thrive on it and some would abuse that pride. That is a human nature. Are we not proud of our own ancestry?
Modi is not a fool, he is a politician. He knows how to play the cards. As long as he finds glory in Vedic scripture, why this should be a problem? If he can materialize some of Vedic fantasies, why that would be a problem? Has he changed Indian constitution? Has he stopped Indian science explorations? Has anybody being persecuted for blasphemy? If not, the guy should be given a chance to serve his country..
-SD
 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



On Tuesday, November 11, 2014 8:42 AM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
"I am not inclined to take pride in some thing called Vedic math."
Look, Pal, Modi's message was for the people, like you, who are ashamed to take pride of their own heritages. When I tried to remind that point, some of you started to attack me without understanding my message. Someone even accused me of 'falsification,' which turned out to be meant for 'exaggeration.'
As I said before, Indus Valley civilization is one of the oldest civilizations in the world (5000 years old). When I tried to remind that heritage, you try to find excuses to demean them. Vedic era is ~3500 years old, it has brought so much enlightenment to people in that region, which people are still making use of. But, instead of being proud of them, you are bringing Chinese, Greek, and English literatures. This was the point Modi was making.
I know, if the same talk was given by President Kalam or Mukharjee, we would not be talking about it. So, it was not the message, but the messenger, that was wrong.
Look, when someone counter comments against mine, I look forward to learn something from it; this is just waste of time talking about something that should be obvious to all of you.
Jiten Roy

 

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

 
Ancient Indian scholars or (sages if you like the word) did real research on astronomy. That is what we need to talk about. I am not inclined to take pride in some thing called Vedic math. 
Sent from my iPhone



On Nov 10, 2014, at 6:12 AM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Well, Dr. Roy, I can accept that the imaginations of the Vedic stories were richer than their time. But when you suggest, for example, that "in-depth knowledge of astronomy ...... are all in the scriptural books", I find it more than exaggeration; it is falsification. BTW: Did Ganesh's body try to reject the elephant's head, as we see in modern transplant cases; or there was no such problem due to his mother's blessings? Now, don't get me wrong; I have been weak enough to think that the blessings of my parents did/could bring good things in my life; but I am not weak enough to think that such blessings by themselves could change established science.

Talking about some people being ahead of their time, I am willing to accept that Mohammad also was one such human. The problem that I see with the Muslims now is that too many of them proclaim his messages to be adequate for today's world.

Sukhamaya Bain

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 11/9/14, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, November 9, 2014, 10:02 PM

Dr. Bain, the problem with your
comments, most of the time,
is that you think out of context. Here, you
are judging Vedic stories against
modern science fiction stories. Vedic stories were at least
a few thousand
years old. How much
scientific sophistication do you expect from the people in
that era?  Did you
give a thought where rest of the world was when Vedic
stories were written?

When you read something from a thousand
year old
books, you need to think with reference to that era. Just
trashing them without careful consideration, you will
do injustice to those books.  

Do you know how Ganesh got his elephant
head? If
you do, you can compare that to the modern day
face-transplant. Many Vedic stories
deal with space-travel and space-warfare. If I remember
correctly, Megnad used to fight from behind the cloud. Have
you thought about how did those
fictional ideas came to them in those days? Now, compare the
standard of the Vedic people
with that of the people in the rest of the world in those
days. Only then, you will
realize how sophisticated they were. You found some falsifications in my
comments.  What are those false statements? If you tell
them, may be I can correct myself.

Jiten Roy

From: "Sukhamaya
Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]"
<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To:
mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November
9, 2014 7:04 PM
Subject: Re:
[mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

Here are
my comments on the quoted comments (below) by Dr. Jiten
Roy.

I see too much of conjecture, exaggeration, imagination and
falsification in Dr. Roy's comments. With the same kinds
of practice, religious people of other shades have been
making the claims that all kinds of knowledge can be found
in their religious books. The way I see them, the stories in
the Hindu scriptures are like poor quality science fictions,
based upon imagination. Compared to those, many of the
modern science fictions are based upon a good deal of
methodical thoughts, and upon technologies that actually
have been proven to work. That is why a lot of real science
and technology have their roots in science fictions.

BTW: As for Modi/BJP being a threat to secularism, people
need to realize that Modi/BJP is not like the fools/fanatics
that throw stones at the devil after praying to their God.
Even with their oxymoron of Hindutwa, they are a lot more
rational people than those who believe in the dogmatic
religions.

Sukhamaya Bain

==============================================================

From:

"Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]"

<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>

To:

"mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com"

<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>

Sent:

Saturday, 8 November 2014, 22:37

..........................."Indian civilization, in the
Vedic era, was much advanced than any other in the world.
Descriptions of inter-galactic movement through space-ship,
warfare with the most advanced weapons (airplanes, rockets,
missiles, etc.), in-depth knowledge of astronomy, and
astrology are all in the scriptural books, which depicted
the advancements of knowledge in those
days."...............................................









__._,_.___

Posted by: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions



Indians excelled in tracing the movement of heavenly bodies. Even the Babylonians apparently learned it from them. 

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 13, 2014, at 7:37 AM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Dr. Das, I used to wonder, as a child, who wrote the little Ponjika (Event-log Calendar) and how did he record so precisely date and time of each event years' ahead.
We used to wait for the Solar Eclipse. Villagers would gather around our pond to see the event on clear water; it used to be a huge celebration. On that day, priest used to look at his Ponjika to announce the exact time of this event, and people would stare at their watches to compare it. That little Ponjika never disappointed anybody.  
Jiten Roy

 

From: "Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

 
How could the ancient Indian astrology predict the lunar and solar eclipses correctly in spite of believing that the demon Rahu swallows them? Follow the cryptic language of ancient literature, and a lot might be clear.

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 11, 2014, at 9:35 PM, "Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Let me make my final comments on this thread. The claim that the Hindu religious books have in-depth knowledge of astronomy is worse than exaggeration. It is false. Those books have no in-depth or systematic knowledge. They have wild imaginations.
 
It is wrong for educated people like us to give too much credit to myths and wild imaginations from religious books, even when we agree that imaginations are needed for real innovations. People like us need to work on removing the brainwash from religious people who falsely and exaggeratedly give too much credit to what I call "primitive wisdom" in their respective religious books, and in the process stay in their narrow cocoons of stupidity and hatred, making the world a miserable place to live in.
 
SuBain
 
========================================================================


On Tuesday, November 11, 2014 8:42 AM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
"I am not inclined to take pride in some thing called Vedic math."
Look, Pal, Modi's message was for the people, like you, who are ashamed to take pride of their own heritages. When I tried to remind that point, some of you started to attack me without understanding my message. Someone even accused me of 'falsification,' which turned out to be meant for 'exaggeration.'
As I said before, Indus Valley civilization is one of the oldest civilizations in the world (5000 years old). When I tried to remind that heritage, you try to find excuses to demean them. Vedic era is ~3500 years old, it has brought so much enlightenment to people in that region, which people are still making use of. But, instead of being proud of them, you are bringing Chinese, Greek, and English literatures. This was the point Modi was making.
I know, if the same talk was given by President Kalam or Mukharjee, we would not be talking about it. So, it was not the message, but the messenger, that was wrong.
Look, when someone counter comments against mine, I look forward to learn something from it; this is just waste of time talking about something that should be obvious to all of you.
Jiten Roy

 
From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

 
Ancient Indian scholars or (sages if you like the word) did real research on astronomy. That is what we need to talk about. I am not inclined to take pride in some thing called Vedic math. 
Sent from my iPhone



On Nov 10, 2014, at 6:12 AM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Well, Dr. Roy, I can accept that the imaginations of the Vedic stories were richer than their time. But when you suggest, for example, that "in-depth knowledge of astronomy ...... are all in the scriptural books", I find it more than exaggeration; it is falsification. BTW: Did Ganesh's body try to reject the elephant's head, as we see in modern transplant cases; or there was no such problem due to his mother's blessings? Now, don't get me wrong; I have been weak enough to think that the blessings of my parents did/could bring good things in my life; but I am not weak enough to think that such blessings by themselves could change established science.

Talking about some people being ahead of their time, I am willing to accept that Mohammad also was one such human. The problem that I see with the Muslims now is that too many of them proclaim his messages to be adequate for today's world.

Sukhamaya Bain

------------------------------------


__._,_.___

Posted by: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions



I don't know what Das is talking about. Have I mentioned Algebra or Bedouin in any of my recent posts? He is just showing off as usual. Pythagoras was a student of Indian math and philosophy! I have to check. Any reference please. Pythagoras was born about 4000 years ago. Right? 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2014, at 8:42 PM, Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

The guy who 'invented' algebra called the system Indian Math. Even Pythagoras had been a student of Indian Math and Philosophy. S. Chakrabarty has his mindset on the superiority of the Bedouin un culture of the Arabs. We can always pardon an ill informed Brahmin for his lack of knowledge. Can't we, Dr. Roy?

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 11, 2014, at 7:42 PM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

"I am not inclined to take pride in some thing called Vedic math."
Look, Pal, Modi's message was for the people, like you, who are ashamed to take pride of their own heritages. When I tried to remind that point, some of you started to attack me without understanding my message. Someone even accused me of 'falsification,' which turned out to be meant for 'exaggeration.'
As I said before, Indus Valley civilization is one of the oldest civilizations in the world (5000 years old). When I tried to remind that heritage, you try to find excuses to demean them. Vedic era is ~3500 years old, it has brought so much enlightenment to people in that region, which people are still making use of. But, instead of being proud of them, you are bringing Chinese, Greek, and English literatures. This was the point Modi was making.
I know, if the same talk was given by President Kalam or Mukharjee, we would not be talking about it. So, it was not the message, but the messenger, that was wrong.
Look, when someone counter comments against mine, I look forward to learn something from it; this is just waste of time talking about something that should be obvious to all of you.
Jiten Roy

 

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

 
Ancient Indian scholars or (sages if you like the word) did real research on astronomy. That is what we need to talk about. I am not inclined to take pride in some thing called Vedic math. 
Sent from my iPhone



On Nov 10, 2014, at 6:12 AM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Well, Dr. Roy, I can accept that the imaginations of the Vedic stories were richer than their time. But when you suggest, for example, that "in-depth knowledge of astronomy ...... are all in the scriptural books", I find it more than exaggeration; it is falsification. BTW: Did Ganesh's body try to reject the elephant's head, as we see in modern transplant cases; or there was no such problem due to his mother's blessings? Now, don't get me wrong; I have been weak enough to think that the blessings of my parents did/could bring good things in my life; but I am not weak enough to think that such blessings by themselves could change established science.

Talking about some people being ahead of their time, I am willing to accept that Mohammad also was one such human. The problem that I see with the Muslims now is that too many of them proclaim his messages to be adequate for today's world.

Sukhamaya Bain

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 11/9/14, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, November 9, 2014, 10:02 PM

Dr. Bain, the problem with your
comments, most of the time,
is that you think out of context. Here, you
are judging Vedic stories against
modern science fiction stories. Vedic stories were at least
a few thousand
years old. How much
scientific sophistication do you expect from the people in
that era?  Did you
give a thought where rest of the world was when Vedic
stories were written?

When you read something from a thousand
year old
books, you need to think with reference to that era. Just
trashing them without careful consideration, you will
do injustice to those books.  

Do you know how Ganesh got his elephant
head? If
you do, you can compare that to the modern day
face-transplant. Many Vedic stories
deal with space-travel and space-warfare. If I remember
correctly, Megnad used to fight from behind the cloud. Have
you thought about how did those
fictional ideas came to them in those days? Now, compare the
standard of the Vedic people
with that of the people in the rest of the world in those
days. Only then, you will
realize how sophisticated they were. You found some falsifications in my
comments.  What are those false statements? If you tell
them, may be I can correct myself.

Jiten Roy

From: "Sukhamaya
Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]"
<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To:
mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November
9, 2014 7:04 PM
Subject: Re:
[mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

Here are
my comments on the quoted comments (below) by Dr. Jiten
Roy.

I see too much of conjecture, exaggeration, imagination and
falsification in Dr. Roy's comments. With the same kinds
of practice, religious people of other shades have been
making the claims that all kinds of knowledge can be found
in their religious books. The way I see them, the stories in
the Hindu scriptures are like poor quality science fictions,
based upon imagination. Compared to those, many of the
modern science fictions are based upon a good deal of
methodical thoughts, and upon technologies that actually
have been proven to work. That is why a lot of real science
and technology have their roots in science fictions.

BTW: As for Modi/BJP being a threat to secularism, people
need to realize that Modi/BJP is not like the fools/fanatics
that throw stones at the devil after praying to their God.
Even with their oxymoron of Hindutwa, they are a lot more
rational people than those who believe in the dogmatic
religions.

Sukhamaya Bain

==============================================================

From:

"Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]"

<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>

To:

"mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com"

<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>

Sent:

Saturday, 8 November 2014, 22:37

..........................."Indian civilization, in the
Vedic era, was much advanced than any other in the world.
Descriptions of inter-galactic movement through space-ship,
warfare with the most advanced weapons (airplanes, rockets,
missiles, etc.), in-depth knowledge of astronomy, and
astrology are all in the scriptural books, which depicted
the advancements of knowledge in those
days."...............................................




Posted by: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>



__._,_.___

Posted by: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions



Dr. Das, I used to wonder, as a child, who wrote the little Ponjika (Event-log Calendar) and how did he record so precisely date and time of each event years' ahead.
We used to wait for the Solar Eclipse. Villagers would gather around our pond to see the event on clear water; it used to be a huge celebration. On that day, priest used to look at his Ponjika to announce the exact time of this event, and people would stare at their watches to compare it. That little Ponjika never disappointed anybody.  
Jiten Roy

 

From: "Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

 
How could the ancient Indian astrology predict the lunar and solar eclipses correctly in spite of believing that the demon Rahu swallows them? Follow the cryptic language of ancient literature, and a lot might be clear.

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 11, 2014, at 9:35 PM, "Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Let me make my final comments on this thread. The claim that the Hindu religious books have in-depth knowledge of astronomy is worse than exaggeration. It is false. Those books have no in-depth or systematic knowledge. They have wild imaginations.
 
It is wrong for educated people like us to give too much credit to myths and wild imaginations from religious books, even when we agree that imaginations are needed for real innovations. People like us need to work on removing the brainwash from religious people who falsely and exaggeratedly give too much credit to what I call "primitive wisdom" in their respective religious books, and in the process stay in their narrow cocoons of stupidity and hatred, making the world a miserable place to live in.
 
SuBain
 
========================================================================


On Tuesday, November 11, 2014 8:42 AM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
"I am not inclined to take pride in some thing called Vedic math."
Look, Pal, Modi's message was for the people, like you, who are ashamed to take pride of their own heritages. When I tried to remind that point, some of you started to attack me without understanding my message. Someone even accused me of 'falsification,' which turned out to be meant for 'exaggeration.'
As I said before, Indus Valley civilization is one of the oldest civilizations in the world (5000 years old). When I tried to remind that heritage, you try to find excuses to demean them. Vedic era is ~3500 years old, it has brought so much enlightenment to people in that region, which people are still making use of. But, instead of being proud of them, you are bringing Chinese, Greek, and English literatures. This was the point Modi was making.
I know, if the same talk was given by President Kalam or Mukharjee, we would not be talking about it. So, it was not the message, but the messenger, that was wrong.
Look, when someone counter comments against mine, I look forward to learn something from it; this is just waste of time talking about something that should be obvious to all of you.
Jiten Roy

 
From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

 
Ancient Indian scholars or (sages if you like the word) did real research on astronomy. That is what we need to talk about. I am not inclined to take pride in some thing called Vedic math. 
Sent from my iPhone



On Nov 10, 2014, at 6:12 AM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Well, Dr. Roy, I can accept that the imaginations of the Vedic stories were richer than their time. But when you suggest, for example, that "in-depth knowledge of astronomy ...... are all in the scriptural books", I find it more than exaggeration; it is falsification. BTW: Did Ganesh's body try to reject the elephant's head, as we see in modern transplant cases; or there was no such problem due to his mother's blessings? Now, don't get me wrong; I have been weak enough to think that the blessings of my parents did/could bring good things in my life; but I am not weak enough to think that such blessings by themselves could change established science.

Talking about some people being ahead of their time, I am willing to accept that Mohammad also was one such human. The problem that I see with the Muslims now is that too many of them proclaim his messages to be adequate for today's world.

Sukhamaya Bain

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 11/9/14, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, November 9, 2014, 10:02 PM

Dr. Bain, the problem with your
comments, most of the time,
is that you think out of context. Here, you
are judging Vedic stories against
modern science fiction stories. Vedic stories were at least
a few thousand
years old. How much
scientific sophistication do you expect from the people in
that era?  Did you
give a thought where rest of the world was when Vedic
stories were written?

When you read something from a thousand
year old
books, you need to think with reference to that era. Just
trashing them without careful consideration, you will
do injustice to those books.  

Do you know how Ganesh got his elephant
head? If
you do, you can compare that to the modern day
face-transplant. Many Vedic stories
deal with space-travel and space-warfare. If I remember
correctly, Megnad used to fight from behind the cloud. Have
you thought about how did those
fictional ideas came to them in those days? Now, compare the
standard of the Vedic people
with that of the people in the rest of the world in those
days. Only then, you will
realize how sophisticated they were. You found some falsifications in my
comments.  What are those false statements? If you tell
them, may be I can correct myself.

Jiten Roy

From: "Sukhamaya
Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]"
<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To:
mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November
9, 2014 7:04 PM
Subject: Re:
[mukto-mona] Use and misuse of science in religions

Here are
my comments on the quoted comments (below) by Dr. Jiten
Roy.

I see too much of conjecture, exaggeration, imagination and
falsification in Dr. Roy's comments. With the same kinds
of practice, religious people of other shades have been
making the claims that all kinds of knowledge can be found
in their religious books. The way I see them, the stories in
the Hindu scriptures are like poor quality science fictions,
based upon imagination. Compared to those, many of the
modern science fictions are based upon a good deal of
methodical thoughts, and upon technologies that actually
have been proven to work. That is why a lot of real science
and technology have their roots in science fictions.

BTW: As for Modi/BJP being a threat to secularism, people
need to realize that Modi/BJP is not like the fools/fanatics
that throw stones at the devil after praying to their God.
Even with their oxymoron of Hindutwa, they are a lot more
rational people than those who believe in the dogmatic
religions.

Sukhamaya Bain

================




__._,_.___

Posted by: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___