Banner Advertiser

Tuesday, January 19, 2010

[ALOCHONA] A debate on India's policy in Afghanistan/Pakistan: Look Nearer Home by KANTI BAJPAI



Look Nearer Home

KANTI BAJPAI,

15 January 2010, 12:00am

Times of India

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/opinion/edit-page/Look-Nearer-Home/articleshow/5445698.cms

 

Professor Kanti Bajpai is Professor in the Politics and International Relations of South Asia, Oxford University

 

Now that the climate talks in Copenhagen are behind us, it is time to turn once again to India's policy on Afghanistan and Pakistan. A region-led policy, rather than a US-led policy towards Afghanistan, and the resumption of talks with Pakistan, rather than the stalling of negotiations, should be Indian policy.

 

New Delhi should start with five assumptions. The first is that the United States will quit Afghanistan by 2012 at the latest. When US troops leave, they will leave Afghanistan neither stable nor democratic. Second, the Taliban will remain a military and political force, supported by Pakistan or by elements within the Pakistani government. Third, India-Pakistan tensions over Afghanistan and Kashmir will continue, with both sides claiming legitimate interests in both places. Fourth, Pakistan will be a violent and turbulent place. US presence in Afghanistan will on balance exacerbate, not reduce, extremism in Pakistan which in turn will hinder India-Pakistan relations further. Fifth, terrorists will strike Indian targets again, even as New Delhi improves its counterterrorism, tempting India to hit back at Pakistan - with unpredictable consequences.

 

Indian policy must therefore change. New Delhi's insistence that the US should stay in Afghanistan, that it must discipline Pakistan, that there is no such thing as good and bad Taliban, and that the resumption of talks with Pakistan must await stern action against the perpetrators of 26/11 and the dismantling of the terror apparatus is not wise policy. The US and its allies do not seem to have the will to stay in Afghanistan much beyond 2012. Washington's ability to discipline Pakistan historically has been intermittent at best and ineffective at worst, principally because Islamabad is important to the US for a number of geopolitical reasons including, at present, military operations in Afghanistan.

 

New Delhi's contention that there is no difference between elements of the Taliban is unconvincing. All our experience within India shows that there is always a more extreme and a less extreme faction of insurgents. If there was no relatively good Taliban, the hijacking of IC-814 in 1999 would have ended very differently - in tragedy for the passengers. In any case, to say there are no moderates is to suggest that there is no possibility of negotiating an end to Afghanistan's troubles. Logically, then, the only option is to exterminate the Taliban. Postponing talks with Pakistan until terror has been more or less dismantled and full action taken on 26/11 is like waiting for Godot, in Beckett's famous play by that name.

 

What is the alternative? Indian policy on Afghanistan must move towards a regional understanding that includes in the first instance Pakistan and perhaps Iran. The fundamental compact between India and Pakistan must be of a simple, robust nature: that both countries have legitimate interests in Afghanistan. India has an interest in overall stability and the protection of northern, non-Pashtun Afghans as well as various other minorities including Sikhs and Hindus. Pakistan also has an interest in the country's stability and in the Pashtuns finding their rightful place in any future government of Afghanistan. India and Pakistan could agree therefore that India will continue to provide developmental aid and that Pakistan will have influence on political developments, the goal of both countries being to help evolve a lasting, just and inclusive political system. Iran, Russia, China and the nearby Central Asian states should be part of a conclave on Afghanistan as they are all affected by events in that troubled country and wield influence in it. A beginning towards a conclave would be for Afghanistan, India and Pakistan to meet on the future of Afghanistan.

 

In addition, India must resume talks with Pakistan. The absence of talks is music to the ears of extremists in Pakistan. Composite dialogue between the two countries goes back to the Narasimha Rao government and the so-called "non-papers" of the early 1990s which culminated in the "six plus two" talks (Kashmir and security being the "two"). Progress can be made on the two principal issues as also other outstanding bilateral matters. There is broad convergence on a Kashmir deal. New Delhi has rightly reopened talks with Kashmiris; it must also reopen talks with Islamabad on the future of Kashmir, whether in a 'back' or more public channel. The two countries should in the meantime pluck the low-hanging fruit: Siachen, Sir Creek and Tulbul/Wular. The late J N Dixit recorded that in 1993 the two countries were ready to sign agreements on all three disputes. Agreements here will strengthen Islamabad domestically and have a positive impact on Pakistani opinion.

 

The prime minister has shown that his instincts are right on many aspects of domestic and foreign policy and that he has the tactical acumen and will to carry the day. Under his leadership, New Delhi must take the initiative on Afghanistan and Pakistan. The policy articulated here is not without risk and danger, but it is a more realistic policy than the present US, Pakistani and Indian course on the region.

 

 

A comment: Would you co-operate with a mere regional power if you feel you have beaten two superpowers?

http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/

 

 

Kanti Bajpai is one of India's best academic experts on international relations—and one who this blog holds in high regard. His op-ed in the Times of India today (linkthanks Raja Karthikeya Gundu), however, overlooks something big.

 

Arguing that India must stop relying on the United States to stabilise Afghanistan and "discipline Pakistan" he calls for "Indian policy on Afghanistan must move towards a regional understanding that includes in the first instance Pakistan and perhaps Iran."

 

The fundamental compact between India and Pakistan must be of a simple, robust nature: that both countries have legitimate interests in Afghanistan. India has an interest in overall stability and the protection of northern, non-Pashtun Afghans as well as various other minorities including Sikhs and Hindus. Pakistan also has an interest in the country's stability and in the Pashtuns finding their rightful place in any future government of Afghanistan. India and Pakistan could agree therefore that India will continue to provide developmental aid and that Pakistan will have influence on political developments, the goal of both countries being to help evolve a lasting, just and inclusive political system…In addition, India must resume talks with Pakistan. [TOI]

The problem with this argument is that it assumes that either the Pakistani military-jihadi establishment will either play along or that it will cease to exist. And that is a big assumption. Moreover, the assumption is all the more unlikely to hold specifically in the event Dr Bajpai's prediction of a US pullout by 2012 comes about.

 

Why so? First, the Pakistani military-jihadi complex will perceive a US withdrawal as its second victory over a superpower. This will strengthen its hand in Pakistan's domestic politics and further encourage it to escalate the proxy war in Jammu & Kashmir. Indeed, triumph in Afghanistan will make the military-jihadi complex less likely to engage in meaningful dialogue with India over bilateral issues.

 

Second, once Western troops leave, and a pro-Pakistan regime gains control, why would the Pakistani military establishment want to permit Indian developmental aid? Isn't it far more likely that it will approach China and Saudi Arabia for financial assistance, which the latter would readily provide?

 

If the Indian government goes ahead with Dr Bajpai's recommendations before dismantling the Pakistani military-jihadi complex, it is likely to 'lose' Afghanistan to Pakistan & China.

 

The idea of India attempting to reach a regional understanding with Pakistan and Iran is a good one. It is exactly what the Indian government ought to do—right after the military-jihadi complex has been destroyed.

 

 

Update: Dr Bajpai responds:

 

Thank you for your thoughts on my piece.

 

I think Churchill said that democracy was the worst system except for all the others. A regional compact on Afghanistan is the worst alternative except for all the others.

 

The Vietnamese beat two superpowers as well—the French and the US. But it has not exactly got them very far.

 

The real issue is: what is most likely to give us a shot at stability and a long-term solution? The US cannot be part of a long-term solution because it is not in the region.

 

The reason that Pakistan might come to terms with India on it is that New Delhi is not likely this time to just pull out of Afghanistan in terms of its diplomatic and developmental presence. Pakistan cannot therefore count on having its way in Afghanistan. Also, a new Afghanistan, at some point, even if it dominated by the Taliban, will be a problem for Islamabad—on territory, on Islam.

 

The Islamic-jehadi complex in Pakistan has to be wrestled to the ground by the Pakistanis. The US will not be able to degrade it. As long as the Americans are in Afghanistan, there is not much chance that more moderate Pakistanis–in the ISI, in the rest of the Army, in civil society, in the political parties–will be able to root out the jehadis.

 

The Chinese are going to muscle in on Afghanistan sooner or later anyway. They are already putting in money. The Chinese are the next superpower, and they certainly cannot be kept out of Afghanistan if they don't want to stay out. This is something we in India will have to accept. The Chinese are going to be everywhere—from Bhutan and Nepal to Bangladesh and Burma, from the Maldives to Sri Lanka. Their power is going to outstrip ours by some degrees for the next 35 years. They will find Afghanistan a difficult place to operate but given their fears about Xinjiang they will keep their involvement fairly limited, hoping that Pakistan will do the job.



__._,_.___


[Disclaimer: ALOCHONA Management is not liable for information contained in this message. The author takes full responsibility.]
To unsubscribe/subscribe, send request to alochona-owner@egroups.com




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] Bangladesh should stand as a grateful nation [1 Attachment]

[Attachment(s) from Ripan Biswas included below]

Dear Editor,
 
Hope you are doing well and thanks for publishing my previous write ups.
 
This is an article titled "Bangladesh should stand as a grateful nation". I will be highly honoured if you publish this article. I apprecite your time to read this article.
 
Thanks
 
Have a nice time
 
With Best Regards
 
Ripan Kumar Biswas
New York, U.S.A
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bangladesh should stand as a grateful nation
 
Ripan Kumar Biswas
Ripan.Biswas@yahoo.com
 
Every year on June 6, world leaders including U.S., England, France, Australia, Canada and veterans gathered along the beach in Normandy, France, to commemorate D-Day to thank those courage souls, who risked lives for a cause greater than themselves, defeated overwhelming odds in defying the Nazi defenses and capturing a tiny but vital sliver of French soil by nightfall. Nothing is more honorable than a grateful heart.
 
Bangladesh has had many difficult days in its history and most of them have made the country stronger and more resilient. The Bangladesh liberation war witnessed widespread atrocities committed mainly on the Bengali population of East Pakistan, at a level that Bangladeshis maintain is one of the worst genocides in history. Difference in religious standpoints in the then East and West Pakistan, economic exploitation towards East Pakistan, conspiracy to uproot Bengali language and nationalism, impact of cyclone in East Pakistan in 1970, dominating political attitude by West Pakistani leaders, military preparation in East Pakistan, Bangobondhu's speech of March 7, and finally the mass killing of March 25, apparently triggered the independence war in Bangladesh.
 
Every Bangladeshi in the then time was expected to involve in the war. A man fighting for his own country, no doubt, is an act of rare bravery, but it becomes unusual when an alien fighting side by side with the sons of the soil. People, who were not in the course of such sufferings and were foreign nationals during the liberation war in Bangladesh, but felt the acute need to make the world aware of the extent of genocide and took part directly or indirectly in the war, are really highly respected and deserve heartiest gratitude.
 
But the governments in the past never took any initiative to thank those brave soldiers who put their lives, emotions, and supports along with general people to form an independent Bangladesh. They deserve the recognition out of decency, out of moral obligation, and out of gratitude as the people of Bangladesh owe this to them. No nation that stubbornly declines to honor the martyrs, respect the soldiers and care for the veterans can ever aspire to be counted amongst the great nations.
 
It's a pleasant news that the government is going to honour foreign organisations, journalists, singers, politicians, and poets who stood beside Bangladesh and helped to defend the ideals and principles of liberty and justice during the Liberation War. In addition, State Minister for Liberation War Affairs Ministry Capt (retd) ABM Tajul Islam informed the Parliament replying to a call attention notice of Awami League lawmaker Abul Kalam Azad on January 18, 2010 that the government is trying to reach and bring each and everyone who were with Bangladesh and their family members to Dhaka to honor them on the occasion of Victory Day 2010. Lawmakers present in the parliament irrespective their party values welcomed the government's move.
 
The total number of freedom fighters during Bangladesh War of Liberation was not recorded anywhere, but according to the Bangladesh government in exile, the total number of freedom fighters was 105,000, which includes members of 11 sectors, Mujib Bahini, Kader Bahini, and Hemeyet Bahini while the Minister ABM Tajul Islam confirmed that 210,581 freedom fighters joined the liberation war. Many of them came forward to liberate Bangladesh willingly or unwillingly, because it was their country.
 
But W.A.S. Ouderland, Bir Protik (4th highest gallantry award in Bangladesh), who was actually a Dutch citizen and was posted as the CEO of Bata operation in the then East Pakistan on the eve of the War of Liberation in Bangladesh, never thought that he would train and assist the freedom fighters to create an independent Bangladesh rather putting his attention to increase the volume of sales of his company. Brutal repression and occupation of unarmed Bangladeshis by the Pakistani occupation army reminded Ouderland of the similar brutalities perpetrated by the Nazis in occupied Europe.
 
He was not the only one, who fully appreciated the legitimacy of Bangladeshi resistance against the brute forces of occupation, but there were several others, who felt the same ideology and directly or indirectly took part in the war. Although Ouderland was the only foreign national to have been honored with gallantry award "Bir Pratik" for his outstanding contribution to the war of liberation, but there were thousands of foreign nationals who had supported Bangladesh in many form and fashion during liberation war. They had raised funds, made posters, flyers, joined in rallies, wrote articles, raised awareness, and sang songs. They also gave shelters and words of comfort to those individuals who had disowned their nationality from Pakistan and had no country to call their own for nine months. These individuals did what they could out of their loves for humanities and had shown their utmost disgust against the inhuman atrocities and genocide against the people of Bangladesh.
 
George Harrison and Rabi Shankar brought the attention of the world to what was happening in Bangladesh during the independence war through their concert in New York in 1971. Without their effort, much of the suffering endured by the Bangladeshi people at the time would have gone unnoticed. Their concert for Bangladesh raised money for war-affected people with performances by Eric Clapton, Ringo Starr, Billy Preston, and Bob Dylan. On the other hand, former Senator Ted Kennedy (MA-D) bravely exposed the plight of millions of Bangladeshi refugees in India during the liberation war. As a chairman of the then US senate's refugee committee, Kennedy tried to persuade the US to allocate funds for the Bangladeshi refugees in India.
 
With unprecedented support of India, it became easier to the local heroes to form an independent Bangladesh. The then Indian Government led by Prime Minister Indira Gandhi provided shelter, food, clothing, and medical aid for 10 million refugees. They helped freedom fighters with training, arms, and ammunitions, campaigned for release of Bangabondhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman and mobilized international public opinion in favor of independence of Bangladesh. According to the former chief of the Indian army's eastern command Lt Gen (retd) JFR Jacob, 1400 Indian troops were killed and 4000 wounded during the Liberation War of Bangladesh.
 
Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all the others. Thanks make a difference. Gratitude or thankfulness or appreciation is one of the most fundamental human emotions. When we appreciate and support the deeds of others we feel good and encourage others to feel the same. Remembering the history gives us strength. It gives us the opportunity to rise above the pettiness of individual desire, and to strive for something greater -- the same vision of a great nation which drove these brave souls forward to protect and serve when duty called.
 
It's late, but it's always good to be grateful. As a grateful nation, Bangladesh should remember those great foreign friends who have fought for them, who have led by example with exemplary lives, whose wisdom and courage Bangladesh should incite in these trying times to suss out the best answers for a nation whose troubles may dishearten for their density.
 
Tuesday, January 19, 2010, New York
Ripan Kumar Biswas is a freelance writer based in New York


Attachment(s) from Ripan Biswas

1 of 1 File(s)


__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

[ALOCHONA] Chatra Dal / Chatra League cadres



Chatra Dal / Chatra League cadres
 
 
 
 
 


__._,_.___


[Disclaimer: ALOCHONA Management is not liable for information contained in this message. The author takes full responsibility.]
To unsubscribe/subscribe, send request to alochona-owner@egroups.com




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

[ALOCHONA] BSF kills 5 on three borders in a week



BSF kills 5 on three borders in a week

 

Bangladesh Human Rights Implementation Committee (BHRIC) has expressed grave concern at the killings of Bangladeshis by Indian Border guards on borders of the south-western region of the country.According to BHRIC sources, a cattle trader named Hazrat Ali, 32, was beaten to death by BSF on Goga border of Benapole on January 9. Bongaon police recovered the body and later sent it to hospital morgue for autopsy.

On January 12, another cattle trader, Alauddin alias Ala, 30, was gunned down by BSF at Daulatpur frontier of Benapole.The BSF men took away body and returned it on January 13. Ala was son of Akbar Ali of Goirha village under Benapole Police Station of Jessore district.A young man named Shafiqul Islam Bhulu, 30, was tortured to death by BSF on Uksha border under Kaliganj upazila of Satkhira district on January 13.Kaliganj police recovered the body and later sent it to Satkhira Sadar Hospital morgue for autopsy.

On the night of January 15, BSF shot dead Shahidul Alam, 28, at Kazipur frontier under Gangni upazila of Meherpur district. BSF took away the body and returned it after a flag meeting on January 16.On January 16, an unidentified Bangladeshi was tortured to death by the Indian border guards on Sharsha border of Jessore district. Sharsha police recovered his body from near border pillar no 26.

http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=122588


__._,_.___


[Disclaimer: ALOCHONA Management is not liable for information contained in this message. The author takes full responsibility.]
To unsubscribe/subscribe, send request to alochona-owner@egroups.com




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

[ALOCHONA] The last journey of Jyoti Basu



A Tribute to Jyoti Basu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JzkdO7STn0

A beautiful song written by Javed Akhtar and sung by Jagjit Singh.

 

CASKET OF POWER,CASCADE OF PEOPLE - Unceasing flow to pay homage, followed by crack of rifles 

The last journey of Jyoti Basu

MANINI CHATTERJEE

The Telegraph

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1100120/jsp/frontpage/story_12006264.jsp

 

An army gun carriage, bedecked and replete with the trappings of power, takes Jyoti Basu's body from Citizens' Park to SSKM Hospital. Picture by Pabitra Das 

 

Calcutta, Jan. 19: There was no hysterical outpouring of raw grief, no unruly outburst of manufactured emotion, no orchestrated display of organisational might.

 

Today's moving and fitting tribute to Jyoti Basu — Bengal's most enduring icon and among the foremost national leaders of post-Independence India — came not from the three-volley rifle salute nor the galaxy of leaders and VVIPs who thronged the bedecked stage in the Assembly before a huge battery of television cameras.

 

It came, instead, from lakhs and lakhs of ordinary people — men and women from the city and its suburbs, from distant villages and far-flung districts — who stood patiently in serpentine queues and lined every inch of the roads his last journey meandered through, having gathered in silent clusters along the entire route.

 

Most of them had come on their own, not shepherded by local party bosses as to a Maidan rally; some of them had never voted for the CPM in their lives, and many had ceased to vote Red in recent years. Yet they came, in an unceasing flow from early morning till journey's end at 4.40 in the evening, to pay a homage that was spontaneous yet sombre, heartfelt but restrained and entirely in keeping with the persona of the man they had come to say goodbye to.

 

An era had come to an end, they knew, and they had come to make their tryst with history.

 

For the CPM, Basu was the last of the nine-member politburo that formed the party back in 1964 and who, more than any other, became the best known communist in the annals of the movement in this country. The party, therefore, pulled out all the stops in giving him a befitting send-off — the entire extant politburo and several central committee members gathering at the party's state headquarters at Alimuddin Street early this morning to offer Basu their Red salute.

 

For the Left Front government and alliance, Basu was their longest-serving chief minister who gave the state an enviable stability for decades (before it turned into the now vilified stagnation) and made Bengal the byword for land reforms and decentralisation of power. So the cortege made a brief but obligatory stop outside Writers' Buildings where chief minister Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee placed a wreath on Basu's body.

 

But long before he assumed the office of chief minister, Basu had been a central figure in the politics of Bengal — among the handful of political activists who combined mass work, trade unionism and legislative responsibilities with equal ease, entering the Assembly as far back as 1946.

 

Much more than being India's longest-serving chief minister, Basu was the only Indian leader who spanned seven decades of active politics — starting before Jawaharlal Nehru became Prime Minister and living to see his great-grandson enter the arena. That long and rich innings ensured that Basu would never be just a communist leader confined to just one state of the country but a towering personality with an appeal that transcended both party lines and provincial boundaries. His party may have blundered in not letting him be Prime Minister in 1996.

 

But today the CPM brass could not stop basking in Basu's reflected national glory as leaders from across the political spectrum — Sonia Gandhi and L.K. Advani, Deve Gowda and Sharad Pawar, Lalu Prasad and Chandrababu Naidu and others big and small — flew down to Calcutta to personally pay their respects.

 

The presence of Sheikh Hasina from Bangladesh, and many Bangladesh Opposition leaders too confirmed that the Basu magic seeped beyond borders.

 

Yet, all the pomp and show, the rituals and honours bestowed on a frail old man who epitomised the cliché of being a legend in his lifetime faded before the humbling spectacle offered by the crowds — from jeans-clad youngsters to rural women in crumpled cotton saris, middle-class professionals to elderly peasants — who came out in their lakhs today.

 

It only deepened the inexplicable mystery of what made Basu the most formidable leader of the masses, though he resolutely refused to be a mass leader in the usual sense of the term. Basu never played to the gallery, he did not indulge in rhetorical flourishes or make fiery promises — in or out of power. He never lost his upper-class bearing and acquired some quintessentially English traits — spry and dapper in demeanour, wry and laconic in speech — that he did not shed long after he returned from London on New Year's Day in 1940.

 

Despite this seeming lack of "mass leader" characteristics, or more likely because of it, he evoked a sense of awe and admiration among generations of Bengalis (and many non-Bengalis, too) who may not have supported his party or ideology.

 

Standing far behind in the queue outside the Assembly gates, Naren Chandra from Madhyamgram finds it difficult to articulate quite why he is here. He finally says: "Jyoti Basu was a good man. He was a straight man. He had no duplicity, no hypocrisy."

 

Sadek Ali, a policeman from Howrah who has bunked work, says: "Jyoti Basu made us feel proud — everyone knows Bengal because of him."

 

For others like Samir Ghatak of Serampore and Basudeb Maiti from a South 24-Parganas village, who hail from Left families and have gradually got disillusioned with the "rot" that has set in within the CPM, Basu brings back memories of the Left's heyday — and they are paying homage not just to him but to their own erstwhile idealism and youth too.

 

Just as for Mira Banerjee from Jadavpur, bidding goodbye to Basu is to reaffirm her shaky faith in the future of the CPM. And 40-year-old Anindya, speaking for a generation that had little sympathy with the Left Front's record of governance, says wistfully: "We grew up with the legend of Jyoti Basu long before we knew who he was. When I was a little kid, I believed that two entities would never die —Phantom and Jyoti Basu…."

 

Basu's body was handed over to SSKM Hospital at the end of the day's journey. Neuroscientists are keen to scan his brain. But neither medical science nor political analysis can quite explain the peculiar alchemy that enabled the no-nonsense pragmatist exercise such a mesmerising hold over his people — that came out in all its splendour today in the course of the patriarch's last journey.

 

 

__._,_.___


[Disclaimer: ALOCHONA Management is not liable for information contained in this message. The author takes full responsibility.]
To unsubscribe/subscribe, send request to alochona-owner@egroups.com




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] Interview: Nasr Abu Zayd on a Humanistic Reading of the Islamic Tradition



Nasr Hamid Abu Zayd is a well-known Egyptian Islamic scholar. In 1982, he joined the faculty of the Department of Arabic Language and Literature at Cairo University. In 1995, he was promoted to the rank of full professor, but controversies about his academic work led to a court decision of apostasy and the denial of the appointment. A hisbah trial started against him Islamist groups and he was declared a heretic (Murtadd) by an Egyptian court. Consequently, he was declared to be divorced from his wife, Cairo University French Literature professor Dr. Ibthal Younis. This decision, in effect, forced him out of his homeland and seek refuge in the Netherlands, where he now works. In this interview with Yoginder Sikand, he speaks about his work and reflects on his efforts to promote a humanistic reading of the Islamic tradition.
 
Sikand: You have been writing on the question of human rights in Islam for a long time now. What are you presently working on?
Nasr Abu Zaid: I am presently working on a project that explores and develops the notion of the rights of women and children in Islam. The aim of the project is to promote knowledge of the traditional sources of Islam, such as the Qur'an, the Sunnah or practice of the Prophet and fiqh or Islamic jurisprudence, within Muslim communities so as to help promote general awareness of these rights. Alongside this, the project also seeks to critically look at aspects of tradition that might appear to militate against these rights.
In the course of your work how do you relate to those aspects of the historical Islamic tradition which you think might be opposed to the notion of women's and children's rights?
Every tradition has both negative as well as positive aspects. The positive aspects are to be further developed, while the negative aspects need to be discussed closely, to see if they are indeed essential elements of the faith or are actually simply human creations.
How does this work relate to what you have been previously engaged in?
I see it as part of my long interest in Islamic hermeneutics, the methodology of understanding the Qur'an, the Sunnah and other components of the Islamic tradition. Of particular concern for me are certain assumptions in popular Islamic discourse that have not been fully examined, and have generally been ignored or avoided. Thus, for instance, Muslim scholars have not seriously reflected on the question of what is actually meant when we say that the Qur'an is the revealed 'Word of God'. What exactly does the term 'Word of God' mean? What does revelation mean? We have the definitions of the Word and revelation given by the traditional 'ulama, but other definitions are also possible. When we speak of the 'Word of God' are we speaking of a divine or a human code of communication? Is language a neutral channel of communication? Was the responsibility of the Prophet simply that of delivering the message, or did he have a role to play in the forming of that message? What relation does the Qur'an have with the particular social context in which it was revealed? We need to ask what it means for the faith Muslims have in the Qur'an if one brings in the issue of the human dimension involved in revelation.
Are you suggesting that the Qu'ran cannot be understood without taking into account the particular social context of seventh century Arabia? In other words, are there aspects of the Qur'an that were limited in their relevance and application only to the Prophet's time, and are no longer applicable or relevant today?
What I am suggesting is that in our reading of the Qur'an we cannot undermine the role of the Prophet and the historical and cultural premises of the times and the context of the Qur'anic revelation. When we say that through the Qur'an God spoke in history we cannot neglect the historical dimension, the historical context of seventh century Arabia. Otherwise you cannot answer the question of why God first 'spoke' Hebrew through his revelations to the prophets of Israel, then Aramaic, through Jesus, and then Arabic, in the form of the Qur'an.
In a historical understanding of the Qur'an one would also have to look at the verses in the text that refer specifically to the Prophet and the society in which he lived. Some people might feel that looking at the Qur'an in this way is a crime against Islam, but I feel that this sort of reaction is a sign of a weak and vulnerable faith. And this is why a number of writers who have departed from tradition and have pressed for a way of relating to the Qur'an that takes the historical context of the revelation seriously have been persecuted in many countries. I think there is a pressing need to bring the historical dimension of the revelation into discussion, for this is indispensable for countering authoritarianism, both religious and political, and for promoting human rights.
Could you give an example of how a historically grounded reading of the Qur'an could help promote human rights?
Take, for instance, the question of chopping off the hands of thieves, which traditionalists would insist be imposed as an 'Islamic' punishment today. A historically nuanced understanding of the Islamic tradition would see this form of punishment as a borrowing from pre-Islamic Arabian society, and as rooted in a particular social and historical context. Hence, doing away with this form of punishment today would not, one could argue, be tantamount to doing away with Islam itself. By thus contextualising the Qur'an, one could arrive at its essential core, which could be seen as being normative for all times, shifting it from what could be regarded as having been relevant to a historical period and context that no longer exists.
If one were to take history seriously, how would a contextual, historically grounded understanding of the Qur'an reflect on Islamic theology as it has come to be developed?
As I see it, Sunni Muslim theology has remained largely frozen in its ninth century mould, as developed by the conservative 'Asharites. We need to revisit fundamental theological concepts today, which the Sunni 'ulama, by and large, have ignored, for there can be no reform possible in Muslim societies without reform in theology. Till now, however, most reform movements in the Sunni world have operated from within the broad framework of traditional theology, which is why they have not been able to go very far.
How would this new understanding of theology that you propose reflect on the issue of inter-faith relations?
When I suggest that we need to reconsider what exactly is meant by saying that the Qur'an is the 'Word of God', I mean Muslims must also remember that the Qur'an itself insists that the 'Word of God' cannot be limited to the Qur'an alone. A verse in the Qur'an says that if all the trees in the world were pens and all the water in the seas were ink, still they could not, put together, adequately exhausted the Word of God. The Qur'an, therefore, represents only one manifestation of the absolute Word of God. Other Scriptures represent other manifestations as well. Then again, many Sufis saw the whole universe as a manifestation of the 'Word of God'. But, today, few Muslim scholars are taking the need for inter-faith dialogue with the seriousness that it deserves. Most Muslim writers are yet to free themselves from a rigid, imprisoning chauvinism.
How does this way of reading the Qur'an deal with the multiple ways in which the text can be understood and interpreted?
The Qur'an, like any other text, can be read in different ways, and there has always been a plurality of interpretations. The text does not stand alone. Rather, it has to be interpreted, in order to arrive at its meaning, and interpretation is a human exercise and no interpreter is infallible. As Imam 'Ali says, the Qur'an does not speak by itself, but, rather, through human beings. True, Muslims from all over the world, do share certain rituals and beliefs in common, but their understanding of what Islam and the Qur'an are all about differ considerably. It is for us to help develop new ways of understanding Islam that can promote human rights, while at the same time being firmly rooted in the faith tradition.
 
-----
Yoginder Sikand works with the Centre for the Study of Social Exclusion and Inclusive Policy at the National Law School, Bangalore


 
Allah, Farid, juhdi hamesha
Au Shaikh Farid, juhdi Allah Allah.

Acquiring Allah's grace is the aim of my jihad, 0 Farid!
Come Shaikh Farid! Allah, Allah's grace alone is ever the aim of my jihad
 
(Baba Guru Nanak Sahib to Baba Shaikh Farid Sahib)
 
PLEASE VISIT MY BLOGS:



__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] Abaabeel



Not really for people like Khurram and the problem is, none of these people come up with Answers to the Questions I have raised about this Ababeel Incident in Qoraan. I even looked at the Geography of Mecca to see if people shot Stones with Slings at Abraha's Army from higher position on the top of some Mountain that had gotten confused by Abaabeel shooting Stones or Pebbles and not Allah but some Human had added that 'Soorah' in Qoraan but there are no such Mountain there. There have never been. Its not a Soorah from Allah. Its fake addition like a lot of others.
Good thing, US F-16s made sound like a Jet Fighter otherwise, they were flying so high, they looked like 'Abaabeel' also. Some of the Afghans had actually thought those F-16s were some high-flying Birds at first still because it was hard to hear sound of their Fuse-lodges. My heart silently weeps for this kind of ignorance and Illiteracy of our own people but then. Still good thing is, almost none of them know, its a Sin to learn English according a 'FaTwaa' of our so revered Mollaas, who's so called Holy Books they still read.    


From: Anis Rahman <anis90242@yahoo.com>


Note: Forwarded message is attached.



__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: [ALOCHONA] The Avatar Movie



Dear Goebbelsian Isha

Where the devil did you get this write up? From one of your deranged ISI friends no doubt!

 

Avatar is a bad film for many reasons including its condescending attitude towards indegenous people. And your pal could come up with this crap!

 

Its not even original a cut and paste job from old nazi/conspiracy minded write ups about freemasons/jews etc. The writer should be fired from the payroll of the ISI. He is lazy & useless.

 

Robin Khundkar

 

 

 




 

-----Original Message-----
From: Isha Khan
Sent: Jan 3, 2010 9:21 PM
To: Dhaka Mails
Subject: [ALOCHONA] The Avatar Movie

 

The Avatar Movie, Maitreya and our New Age Dajjali Religion

http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2009/12/31/the-avatar-movie-maitreya-and-our-new-age-dajjali-religion/

The Avatar movie is just the latest installment from Hollywood to move us closer to accepting the Global Elite's psychopathic religious beliefs.

Plato, the Greek philosopher, taught that there are 5 elements: Fire, Earth, Water, Air and Aether (Ether). The last element, Aether, can best be described as pure energy or light. It is the stuff of the eternities.

Gnosticism, the religious belief of the Knights Templar, holds that mankind is nothing more or less than Aether trapped in a physical world and held there by Satan (they called him the demi-urge). Through multiple reincarnations, they held, a man or woman could become purified and ultimately freed from the other elements.

New Age religions call those with perfect Aether content, ascendant masters. George Bush referred to them as his 1,000 points of light. They include Mohammed, Christ, Buddha  etc. Gnosticism holds that all light will be returned to Logos, or God, and exist as mass consciousness free from the limitations of the physical elements. One mind as it were.

These beliefs form the foundation of the Nicene Creed. The Emperor Constantine is held up as a "Philosopher King", but he was also a Gnostic. Catholics and Protestants both adhere to the belief that there is no physical resurrection. Their creeds teach that we ultimately abandon the elements and become one with the mind of Christ (Logos). This is contrary to the beliefs of early Christians and Biblical scriptures, which teach that Jesus was resurrected with a physical body and we will do the same.

The Knights Templar, after being cut off from the Catholic Church, replaced Christ as "Logos" with Lucifer, "The Light Bearer". God, they felt, had rejected them, so they formed an alliance with the enemy of God.

Luciferianism is the belief that Lucifer is the highest intelligence in the eternities. He is the father of wisdom, science and philosophy. Like the Greek god Prometheus, he gave these things unto man contrary to the decrees of God. Prometheus was punished by Zeus by being chained to a rock while a bird of prey ate his liver (which would regrow daily).

Eventually, the "hero", Hercules freed Prometheus. The Illuminati believe that they, like Hercules will also free Lucifer from his punishment for giving unto man "wisdom", science and philosophy. To the Illuminati, the serpent who gave unto Adam and Eve the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, is a hero and not a villain.

http://pakalert.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/illuminati-dollar.jpg

The Knights Templar created "Free-Masonry" and "Free Masonry" created the Illuminati (formerly the Rosicrucians). The Illuminati claim to be the Saviors of mankind with their gifts of reason, science and philosophy. But, they are still Gnostics.

They are also Satanists. In Gnosticism, the "Demi-Urge" was Aether that got trapped in the elements we now refer to as earth. It is the Demi-urge's desire that we should remained trapped with him eternally.  This is the being the Illuminati worship as Satan, a separate and distinct entity from Lucifer.

This religious belief is not a new one. It has its roots in the Babylonian and Egyptian mystery religions. In Babylon, Nimrod, the mighty hunter of the people of the Lord, was the enemy of God. He waged eternal warfare with God's followers on earth (the City of Salem under Melchizedek). He also swore to build a tower so high that it would allow him entrance into the kingdom of God, where he promised to slay God.

Melchizedek is also known as Shem, the righteous son of Noah. He reportedly slew Nimrod in battle and cut his body into pieces. He then sent those pieces to the far reaches of Nimrod's empire to show that God was still more powerful than man.

Nimrod's wife was Queen Semiramis. She was the mother of harlots in Babylon. Nimrod was the great oppressor of mankind. Semiramus, heavily involved in "sex majic" became pregnant with an illegitimate son after Nimrod's death. She falsely claimed that Nimrod himself had impregnated her from beyond the grave and that the child had no earthly father. Without a doubt, she did this to save her own life and the life of her bastard son. She deified Nimrod and was herself deified, along with her son.

Interestingly enough, Nimrod founded both Babylon and Assyria. One city (Babylon) was known for its sexual abominations and the other (Ninevah) for its cold-blooded murders. Nimrod was worshipped as Baal, Bel, Molech etc.  Nimrod was also worshipped as the god of the sun. Semiramis was worshiped as the goddess of the moon. She is also known as Ashteroth or Asherah (The Queen of Heaven).

The "savior" son was named Tammuz who was slain by a wild boar, but returns from the underworld each spring.

Some have tried to argue that these systems of religion form the basis for Islam and Christianity. I believe the exact opposite. True Christianity (The Islam) was practiced by Adam, Noah, Enoch and Melchizedek. The Babylonian mystery religions are a cheap Satanic counterfeit of True Christianity (The Islam).

The Avatar, master over the elements, is really Lucifer, the angel of light. Just as the Avatar has power over the 4 elements, Lucifer has power over Satan (also known as the Demi-urge). According to the Illuminati, he will ultimately free us from the physical elements so that we can merge with him as one collective consciousness.

Maitreya also claims the title of "Avatar". He is admittedly the servant of Lucifer in as much as his movement's founder, Benjamin Creme, is an admitted Luciferian. Just like Nimrod was a Luciferian-Satanist and his wife as well.

As we continue our discussion of the coming Globalist/Illuminati messiah, it is important to understand that Maitreya is not a new creation. In fact, Luciferianism and Satanism are both as old as time.

We have discussed how Nimrod founded Babylon (The "Great Harlot") and Assyria (The "Great Oppressor"). I will now explain the Biblical implications of these two societies and how it applies to today.

I quote from the Book of Revelation:

"1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will

shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of  blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. (Source)"

Some would argue that this scripture refers to a physical location, but this is inconsistent with modern geography. I am convinced that it refers to a specific economic system. A system that serves Satan by ensnaring the children of men in forbidden lusts. A system that has one standard only; the gold standard. Again I quote from Revelation:


2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

And so we see that Babylon is a corrupt economic system that God detests and is determined to "burn with fire". The concept of Babylon is that things matter more than people. It is guided by the profit motive without thought for the consequences on one's fellow men.

On the most sinister note, the Illuminati run this system. They are the owners of the narcotics industry, tobacco industry, alcohol industry, pornography, gambling, child sex rings, prostitution and everything else that corrupts the soul of man. They own all these things and yet they are themselves slaves to the consequences of ownership.

When we choose profit over what is morally correct than we tip the scales of justice against us. For a little gold, the Illuminati sell the souls of men to their master, Satan. They are his business partners and so they are also partners in the condemnation he is under.

I quote the following from Isaiah, in the Old Testament:

1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.

2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.

3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness.

4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the akingdoms of nations gathered together: the Lord of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.

5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the Lord, and the weapons of his indignation, to adestroy the whole land.

6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:

8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce danger.

14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.

15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.

16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

17 Behold, I will stir up the aMedes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.

18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children.

19 ¶ And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

Maitreya will be a permissive messiah. He will serve the interests of his masters, the Illuminati. He will teach that there is no sin but not "sharing". Many of our  venerable institutions have already sold their souls to Babylon. In exchange for gold and silver, they turn their backs on the oppressed, the vulnerable and the ignorant.  They support unjust wars whose only objective is to prosper financially from the misery of untold millions.

The fate of any society that embraces Babylon is already decreed.  They will be burned by fire, just like Sodom and Gomorrah.

The lesson, don't destroy other people's lives just because you can make money at it.

dollar_bill_showing_New_World_Order

The sinister plan of The Anti-Christ Dajjal hidden in 1 dollar bill – Click to enlarge






__._,_.___


[Disclaimer: ALOCHONA Management is not liable for information contained in this message. The author takes full responsibility.]
To unsubscribe/subscribe, send request to alochona-owner@egroups.com




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___