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Tuesday, August 7, 2012

Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: [chottala.com] Islamic militants take aim at Myanmar



Communal violence would get nobody anywhere.  And also retaining an offensive posture by a minority community could only harm it's own members.

On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 12:29 AM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 

This is an excellent opportunity for diplomats and leaders of the region to take a lead to address the issue. Punishing a whole community over an allegation against few people is not civilized. Unfortunately the noble prize winning leader of Myanmar did little to stop the violence. She was busy making speeches in Europe!!

Personally this was an "Opportunity lost" for Bangladesh and India to assert their leadership to assist victims of communal violence but both of them opted for opportunity to obtain cheap gas/oil over human right issues.

We have witnessed similar issue in Assam as well. While the central government of India made some efforts but local institutions are bending over backwards to punish Muslims of Assam!!

It is very sad that, we can only watch these happening right in front of us. We can speak up against such violence in one voice. If someone commits a crime, the whole community cannot be punished over it in 21st century.

Shalom!



-----Original Message-----
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Aug 3, 2012 4:28 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: [chottala.com] Islamic militants take aim at Myanmar

 
Good question. What to do? Every thing possible has to be done to immediately stop it. Unfortunately it is not happening as no country except Afghanistan has come forward. UNO also seems to remain as a silent observer. Being passive the countries of the world have given the  fundamentalist and militant Islamist organizations the opportunity to come forward outcome of which will not be good at all. While communal harmony through interfaith dialogues would be required, these Islamist organizations with Islamist agenda will further aggravate the situation. Instead of aligning the minority groups with the mainstream society they will further alienate them against the majority. As we know these divisive forces thrive on crises. 
Sent from my iPh

On Jul 31, 2012, at 8:43 AM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

 
So what is the "Proper" thing to do. Watch innocent civilians slaughter and eat panta bhat?

Shalom!



-----Original Message-----
From: BHBCUC USA <unitycouncilusa@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Jul 29, 2012 5:20 am
Subject: [mukto-mona] Fwd: [chottala.com] Islamic militants take aim at Myanmar

 

Islamic militants take aim at Myanmar

By Jacob Zenn

After decades of isolation under military rule, Myanmar is opening to foreign investment and forms of democracy for the first time in a generation. The reform process, however, is now being attended by unanticipated consequences and influences, both internally and from abroad, that could undermine the country's new trend towards openness.

Recent sectarian fighting between Muslims and Buddhists in Myanmar's western Rakhine State has caught the attention of militant Islamists in South and Southeast Asia. Since May, the amount of jihadi propaganda directed towards Myanmar, a country previously unknown in the world of jihadi antagonists, has surged as perhaps thousands of Muslim Rohingyas have been forced to flee the country.

Tensions between the ethnic Rohingya and Rakhine populations in Rakhine State were mostly kept under wraps under Myanmar's previous ruling military junta. Violence erupted on May 28 after an ethnic Rakhine woman was raped and murdered allegedly by three Rohingyas in Rakhine State, and the government was unprepared for the inter-ethnic violence that soon transpired.

A cycle of violence between the two groups has since resulted in widespread arson attacks and hundreds of murders. Perhaps thousands of the 800,000 Rohingyas living in Rakhine State have recently fled to Bangladesh, which many Myanmar citizens claim is the Rohingyas' true homeland.

The violence occurs at a time of growing regional instability in the pivot area where South and Southeast Asia meet, namely the areas along the Myanmar, Bangladesh, and India's Assamese borders. At the same that Muslim Rohingyas and Buddhist Rakhines clashed in Myanmar, fighting erupted between Muslims and Hindus in India's Assam State.

Since mid-July, more than 30 people have been killed and 150,000 displaced in Assam as riots devolved into open conflict between indigenous tribes such as the Bodos and Muslim settlers in the state's Kokrajhar and Chirang districts. As in Myanmar where the Rohingyas are considered illegal Bangladeshi settlers, the Muslims targeted in Assam are accused of being ethnic Bengalis from Bangladesh.

Bangladesh has the highest population density of any country and is woefully ill-equipped to deal with an influx of refugees from Myanmar and India. Bangladesh is home to a population of 160 million people in a country the size of the US State of Iowa, which in contrast has a population of only three million people.

Bangladesh also has its own homegrown problems with Muslim extremist groups, including the Hizb ut-Tahrir, which authorities banned in 2009. The head of the Indian Mujahideen (IM), Yasin Bhatkal, is believed to be hiding in Dhaka and Chittagong, Bangladesh's two largest cities, allegedly with the help of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) spy agency.

The Bangladesh government now runs the risk of being perceived by militant Islamists as selling out fellow Muslims, a sentiment expressed in a recent surge of jihadi propaganda condemning it for not doing enough to help the inrush of refugee Rohingyas.

As is often the case with jihadi statements, the videos and essays propagated by militant Islamists about recent events in Myanmar are more rhetoric than substance. Playing up the victimhood narrative, they apparently hope to incite the global Muslim community, or ummah, and win new recruits to their wider cause against enemy "infidel" governments and countries.

While secular Bangladesh has been a target of Islamists for years, Myanmar is apparently a new member of the "infidel" club of countries that propagandists threaten in response to its treatment of the Rohingyas. Given the Myanmar military's ongoing challenges of trying to pacify internal insurgencies, including a major unresolved conflict in northern Kachin State, it is likely unprepared to raise its counter-terrorism capabilities to prevent a possible retributive plot against the country.

The most recent militant statement to target Myanmar came from Lebanon's Hezbollah, which on July 23 said in an official statement:
"The regime-owned killing machine relentlessly works on striking Muslims in different regions, with Rohingya at the forefront...This is a new racial purification trend against Muslims."
On July 20, the Taliban released a more vitriolic statement saying:
The Muslims of [Myanmar] have been facing such oppression and savagery for the past two months never previously witnessed in the history of mankind.

Mercilessly burning children, women and men like toasting sheep on fire is not only against every known law but something no man with any conscious can ever accept but unfortunately the Muslims of [Myanmar] are targets of such a gross crime. Not only that, but they are also being expelled from their lands, forcefully ejected from their homes, their wealth is being usurped and their honor looted while the whole world turns a blind eye to their plight.

The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, besides considering this crime a black scar on the history of mankind, calls on the government of [Myanmar] to immediately put a stop to this savagery and barbarism and halt such heart rending historical violations against humans and humanity. They should realize that this is not only a crime against the Muslims of [Myanmar] but against all humankind and especially an unforgivable crime against the entire Muslim world…[1]
On July 16, The Global Islamic Media Front (GIMF), the European propaganda arm in support of al Qadea and other radical Islamic organizations, issued a recent question and answer essay called "The Genocide against the Muslims in [Myanmar]" on the jihadist website al Fidaa:
Why did this genocide begin? The Buddhist Rakhine killers placed the dead body [of the raped and killed Rakhine woman] near a Muslim village without any knowledge of the murder. The Buddhist Rakhine and Burmese (Myanmar) authority accused Muslims of killing the woman. As a result, three innocent Muslim youths were arrested. One was beaten to death, and the other two were sentenced to death by the court. The government has shown the world that they created a fake issue to instigate a real event against Muslims.

How did this genocide start and what happened afterwards? On June 3, 2012, eight Muslim pilgrims along with one escort, one bus helper, and one woman were killed by a Rakhine mob in Taungup township in southern Arakan [Rakhine] State. Five others escaped the massacre…The gang of Rakhine terrorists stopped the bus, which had the license plate 7 (Ga) 7868, at an immigration gate, and called, "Come down all, if there are any foreigners," while holding lethal weapons…Then, they started to beat the Muslim pilgrims and dragged them from the bus to the road, where an organized gang of more than 300 Rakhine terrorists beat the Muslims until they died. The gang had been standing at the immigration gate, but no authorities came out to stop the massacre. [2]
These messages and interpretations of events are starting to cause regional ripple effects. On July 13, 300 members of the Islamic Defenders Front (FPI) and Jemaah Anshorut Tauhid (JAT) in Indonesia threatened to storm the Myanmar embassy in Jakarta. One protest leader said over a loudspeaker: "If embassy officials refuse to talk with us, I demand all of you break into the building and turn it upside down … Allahu Akbar … Every drop of blood that is shed from a Muslim must be paid back. Nothing is free in this world … FPI is ready to wage jihad … Go to Myanmar and carry out jihad for your Muslim brothers."

On July 6, the al-Faruq Foundation for Media Production released an Arabic-language video called "Solidarity With Our Muslim Brothers in Arakan (The Tragedy of [Myanmar])" on the Ansar al-Mujahideen Forum. The propaganda film includes a historical narrative focusing on Muslim victimhood played over images of brutalized Rohingyas, although some of the images appear not to have come from the recent violence. The video's narrative includes a passage that says:
They steal the money of the Muslims and they steal their crops and they prohibit the Muslims from communicating with people from other countries. They also prevent the marriages of Muslims and they put a lot of obstacles in the way of Muslim marriages. This is not all as there is a lot of injustice that you can't even imagine and all forms of torture. So where are the defenders of the human rights in the 20th century and where the people who fight for freedom and democracy. This awful silence indicates the acceptance and supporting of this because it is Muslim blood that is being shed and since it is a Muslim blood, then the blood is cheap like the blood of Muslims of 'Arakan', Palestine, Kashmir and Chechnya and everywhere else.
These and other statements have put the Rohingyas' plight on the radar of many Islamist militant groups. While their propaganda is directed at militants from all regions, some of the groups who have issued statements on Myanmar are clearly trying to recruit disenfranchised Rohingyas to their radical causes.

They have a potential galvanizing figure. One ethnic Rohingya, Abu Zar al-Burmi, is believed to be the mufti, or religious scholar, for the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan based in the Afghanistan-Pakistan border region. Without roots in any nation, as Rohingyas are not allowed citizenship in Myanmar or Bangladesh, al-Burmi has promoted the creation of a global Muslim community which exists without respect to international borders.

The growing inter-religious fighting and spillover humanitarian crises in Rakhine and Assam States is exerting new pressures on Bangladesh, Myanmar, and India. As the violence spirals and governments fail to restore order and dispense of justice for crimes committed, the situation could quickly become a new regional, if not international, security dilemma.

For their part, Islamist militants have shown they are prepared to exploit the plight of the Rohingyas for their own radical purposes, while neither Myanmar nor Bangladesh have demonstrated they are able to manage the crisis at a local or national level. Should the crisis escalate and become an effective recruiting tool for transnational Islamist militant groups, the international community will one way or another eventually be dragged into the mire.

Notes:
1. Statement of Islamic Emirate regarding the bloody tragedy of the Muslims of Burma, July 20, 2012.
2. The Genocide Against the Muslims in Burma, Jihadology, July 16, 2012.
3. Solidarity With Our Muslim Brothers in Arakan (The Tragedy of Burma), Jihadology, July 6, 2012.


Jacob Zenn is a political risk analyst and legal adviser based in Washington, D.C., who focuses on militant groups in Southeast Asia, Central Asia, and Nigeria. He can be reached at zopensource123@gmail.com.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/NG27Ae04.html




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Re: [mukto-mona] America's First Hindu Think Tank Now Established



Muhammad is the alter-ego of Allah.  Whenever he spoke under inspiration, he made others believe that he received Wahi/ revelation/ Inspiration.  Had he been certain about it's divine source, he would get his revelations compiled in his life time.  He even branded some revelations as Satanic some five years after their enunciation.  With the changed context of time, the whole set needs to be checked about it's nature. 

On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 7:58 AM, Dev Saha <devsaha5@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Bro, I was not born yesterday! Your Muhammed has taken God's position long time ago whether you care or not. Muslims do not worship Muhammed? So, what they do? I do not see any difference between Hindus worshiping idols and Muslims worshiping another cult figure. Both practices lead to the total darkness no matter how you want to sugar coat that damn rotten wine. David Koresh and Jim Jones likes could have been our new prophets if they were born in right time and right place. But they became notorious cult figures because time was not right for them. Pretty simple!  Idolatry or cult idolatry are basically two sides of the sane coin!
-Dev



--- On Mon, 8/6/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] America's First Hindu Think Tank Now Established
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 6, 2012, 2:11 PM


 

Hindus may have DEVs and DEVis but Muslims and Christians got their Muhammed and Christ. These are no different from worshiping idols


>>>>>>>>>>>> Very different from worshiping idols. Muhammad (PBUH) is known as a "Messenger of God". NEVER as "God"!!

Jesus Christ on the other hand is recognized as an important messenger of God to Muslims and "God" to many Christians. 

What would you call the black meteorite of Kabba?

>>>>>>>> A small house which helps us in finding direction to pray. NO Muslim EVER worships the "Kabba". The stone was set by our spiritual father Abraham and people kiss it to show our love to our spiritual forefathers. NOTHING more than that.

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Dev Saha <devsaha5@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:16 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] America's First Hindu Think Tank Now Established

 
The same is true with Islam, Judaism and Christianity.
There are very few people that are truly spiritual. Hindus may have DEVs and DEVis but Muslims and Christians got their Muhammed and Christ. These are no different from worshiping idols. What would you call the black meteorite of Kabba?
-Dev



--- On Sun, 8/5/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] America's First Hindu Think Tank Now Established
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, August 5, 2012, 1:25 AM

 
"SanatonDharma, as it exists today, is 80% idolatry and 20% spiritual. Could this trend be reversed through mass education?"

What made you feel that idolaters can't be spiritual?  Besides those religions claiming to have nothing to do with idolatry speaks about God's hands, mouth along with other limbs and above all voice.  Aren't the followers of those religions idolaters too?

On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 7:25 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Mr. Sudhir Kumar,
I am glad that this center wants to promote open-minded intellectual deliberations about SanatanDharma. I have a proposal to all intellectuals in this center, and that is – how about promoting 'Formless-worshipping (Nirakar Upashana)' to revive the spiritual understanding of the essence of religion through yoga, meditation, etc., since SanatonDharma has a provision for that already, and does not require idolatry for religious purposes. Idolatry is merely a ritualistic act to commemorate a particular memorable scriptural event, and as such - it is much more a cultural festivity than a religious act. Idolatry breeds superstitions and prejudices; it divides community into sects and castes. It should be separated from the core religion ASAP. In my view, SanatonDharma, as it exists today, is 80% idolatry and 20% spiritual. Could this trend be reversed through mass education?
Thank you so much.
Jiten Roy
--- On Fri, 8/3/12, Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar@yahoo.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] America's First Hindu Think Tank Now Established
To:
Date: Friday, August 3, 2012, 12:36 PM


 
America's First Hindu Think Tank Now Established

The Center for the Study
of Dharma and Civilization
http://www.dharmaci vilization. com

After more than a decade of discussions, planning and organizing, the very first credible and professionally led Hindu think tank in America has now been formally established to serve the Hindu community.

The Center for the Study of Dharma and Civilization (CSDC) is the very first academic think tank of the Sanatana Dharma tradition ever created in American history. Established by Sri Dharma Pravartaka Acharya in May of 2012, the CSDC brings together several of the most prominent Hindu scholars in America with the singular purpose of academically affirming the preeminence of the philosophy, practice and culture of Sanatana Dharma in the intellectual realm.

The Board of Advisors for this first ever Hindu think tank includes:

Dr. David Frawley, Professor Subhash Kak, Professor Ramdas Lamb, Professor Ramesh Rao, Professor Parmender Mehta, and Professor Daniel Wilkins.

Our goal is to reveal to the world the unique Vedic perspective on all of the most important philosophical, social, religious, political and cultural issues of the day. We will offer comparative analyses of the Dharma world-view versus every other world-view of prominence in the 21st century, thus establishing Sanatana Dharma as the philosophical system par excellence designed to solve the many crises and confusions that our world is facing today.

Seeking Paper Submissions

We are seeking papers to publish on our website, and that may eventually be published in printed form.

We are exclusively interested in papers that firmly contrast any civilizational aspect of Sanatana Dharma with any juxtaposing aspect of a non-Dharmic belief system, theological stance, philosophy, ideology, or idea. The goal of your paper must be to demonstratively establish the preeminence of Sanatana Dharma over the non-Dharmic philosophical proposition you are comparing it to. We are not interested in purely historical, hagiographical, philological, or needlessly abstract papers – but only papers that directly interface Sanatana Dharma with modernity in a polemically engaged manner.

You can submit papers online at: http://dharmacivilization.com/submissions/

We Need Your Help

The CSDC is currently operating on a limited budget. We will need further funding for larger office space rental, internet development and maintenance, possible fellowships for scholars who we would want to employ full-time, development of multimedia production capacity, etc. If you would like to donate to this important cause, please do so by visiting: http://dharmacivilization.com/donate/

Aum Tat Sat
 
Thanks & Regards,


Sudhir Srinivasan
B.Arch, MSc.CPM, Dip.ID, Dip.CAD, Dip.PM
| Architect |




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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] America's First Hindu Think Tank Now Established



"I believe, one should strive to communicate with the higher-power only after spiritual self-enrichment. The medium of communication to the higher power is the self-meditation."


Such belief leads to religious cults. 

On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 6:32 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 


I did not imply 'spirituality' as being devoted to worshiping deities, if you are thinking that way.  

 

By 'spirituality,' I meant understanding the existence of 'higher power' or lack thereof through knowledge. Such knowledge can be acquired through analysis of religious scriptures and philosophical resources. Vedic-era could be used as a model for this purpose. I believe they made substantial progress towards the goal. But, with the advancement of scientific knowledge, attention has been diverted to science and technology. This created a spiritual-knowledge gap. Through that weakness - various simplistic diversions have been introduced and implemented to fill the gap.  

 

I believe, one should strive to communicate with the higher-power only after spiritual self-enrichment. The medium of communication to the higher power is the self-meditation. The line is direct, and there is no other intermediary between God and yourself. Just 'blind-faith on God' is not going to take you anywhere, even though many spiritual leaders feed that idea to their followers. In my view - they do so to keep followers' blind-faith alive onto themselves. As a result, followers start to worship spiritual leaders instead. That's the end of the way.

 

Jiten Roy

 
--- On Mon, 8/6/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] America's First Hindu Think Tank Now Established
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 6, 2012, 1:14 AM


 
Durga is a post-Vedic Goddess.  The Goddess Saraswati in the Vedas became Durga in the Puranas.  What on earth do you mean by  'being spiritual' anyway?  Is it the state you achieve by imbibing spirit? 

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 3:55 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

It's a valid question - if there is a religion in the world that does not use some sort of imaginary or real images or forms for prayer or meditation. Something is needed for focusing concentration. But, the idea of idolatry used by Hindus serves an additional purpose also, and that is - to commemorate scriptural event. For example, when Ram needed a blessing (boon) from Devi-Durga before going to the war against Ravan, he started meditation to communicate with the deity. Durga was pleased with his meditation and came down to earth from the heaven. This incident is now celebrated as BashantiPuja.  The regular Durga-Puja is also a commemoration of another event, when Devi Durga came back to her parent's home from her in-law's home. These types of events are optional celebrations for Hindus. What practically happens in all these occasions, Brahmins chant some mantras in front of a deity with very little contribution/participation of devotees. But, such celebrations have high entertainment value; they are very successful in that. There is no problem with these functions, as long as people understand the purpose.

 

Yes, some of those devotees may be spiritual, but majority are not, I am afraid.

 

Jiten Roy

 


--- On Sun, 8/5/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] America's First Hindu Think Tank Now Established
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, August 5, 2012, 1:25 AM


 
"SanatonDharma, as it exists today, is 80% idolatry and 20% spiritual. Could this trend be reversed through mass education?"

What made you feel that idolaters can't be spiritual?  Besides those religions claiming to have nothing to do with idolatry speaks about God's hands, mouth along with other limbs and above all voice.  Aren't the followers of those religions idolaters too?

On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 7:25 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Mr. Sudhir Kumar,

I am glad that this center wants to promote open-minded intellectual deliberations about SanatanDharma. I have a proposal to all intellectuals in this center, and that is – how about promoting 'Formless-worshipping (Nirakar Upashana)' to revive the spiritual understanding of the essence of religion through yoga, meditation, etc., since SanatonDharma has a provision for that already, and does not require idolatry for religious purposes. Idolatry is merely a ritualistic act to commemorate a particular memorable scriptural event, and as such - it is much more a cultural festivity than a religious act. Idolatry breeds superstitions and prejudices; it divides community into sects and castes. It should be separated from the core religion ASAP. In my view, SanatonDharma, as it exists today, is 80% idolatry and 20% spiritual. Could this trend be reversed through mass education?

Thank you so much.

Jiten Roy
--- On Fri, 8/3/12, Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar@yahoo.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] America's First Hindu Think Tank Now Established
To:
Date: Friday, August 3, 2012, 12:36 PM


 
America's First Hindu Think Tank Now Established

The Center for the Study
of Dharma and Civilization
http://www.dharmaci vilization. com

After more than a decade of discussions, planning and organizing, the very first credible and professionally led Hindu think tank in America has now been formally established to serve the Hindu community.

The Center for the Study of Dharma and Civilization (CSDC) is the very first academic think tank of the Sanatana Dharma tradition ever created in American history. Established by Sri Dharma Pravartaka Acharya in May of 2012, the CSDC brings together several of the most prominent Hindu scholars in America with the singular purpose of academically affirming the preeminence of the philosophy, practice and culture of Sanatana Dharma in the intellectual realm.

The Board of Advisors for this first ever Hindu think tank includes:

Dr. David Frawley, Professor Subhash Kak, Professor Ramdas Lamb, Professor Ramesh Rao, Professor Parmender Mehta, and Professor Daniel Wilkins.

Our goal is to reveal to the world the unique Vedic perspective on all of the most important philosophical, social, religious, political and cultural issues of the day. We will offer comparative analyses of the Dharma world-view versus every other world-view of prominence in the 21st century, thus establishing Sanatana Dharma as the philosophical system par excellence designed to solve the many crises and confusions that our world is facing today.

Seeking Paper Submissions

We are seeking papers to publish on our website, and that may eventually be published in printed form.

We are exclusively interested in papers that firmly contrast any civilizational aspect of Sanatana Dharma with any juxtaposing aspect of a non-Dharmic belief system, theological stance, philosophy, ideology, or idea. The goal of your paper must be to demonstratively establish the preeminence of Sanatana Dharma over the non-Dharmic philosophical proposition you are comparing it to. We are not interested in purely historical, hagiographical, philological, or needlessly abstract papers – but only papers that directly interface Sanatana Dharma with modernity in a polemically engaged manner.

You can submit papers online at: http://dharmacivilization.com/submissions/

We Need Your Help

The CSDC is currently operating on a limited budget. We will need further funding for larger office space rental, internet development and maintenance, possible fellowships for scholars who we would want to employ full-time, development of multimedia production capacity, etc. If you would like to donate to this important cause, please do so by visiting: http://dharmacivilization.com/donate/

Aum Tat Sat
 
Thanks & Regards,


Sudhir Srinivasan
B.Arch, MSc.CPM, Dip.ID, Dip.CAD, Dip.PM
| Architect |





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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

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****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling



May I ask how many billions of years our creator(s) had to research before 'He' could create the human machine? Why did He create so many other millions of species? Do they pray too to the same God? Why would God create pests and viruses to kill innocent babies? How many years did he work to devise those lethal weapons?

>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, yes and yes. When God wills, it happens!!

For God it does not take million years. IT takes long time for us. Again I am not trying to debate you but share a religious point of view.

As far as I see your arguments, they are poor and pretty childish. Only thing that you got is basically a book and that has essentially blocked all your free thinking and questioning. No wonder why nothing has been created or made based on that book. You and your cohorts are basically freeloaders of modern society with virtually zero contribution. You can carry on another thousand years and you won't be able to create or invent anything. Mark my words!


>>>>>>>>>>> You do not know me and have very little ideas of "My thinking" but felt you are entitled to offer a "Fatwa" (Opinion in Arabic) on ME!!

Which clearly shows the high level of thinking ability you have.

While your theory of creation has not yielded any tangible products, our scientific research has created plenty of products that have totally changed you and our daily lives. Why do you think that I should go with  a half witted mollah than Einsteins of our world? The choice could not be anymore clearer!

>>>>>>>>> The difference is Einstein did not feel the "Need" to insult God to be "Smart". That is why I like him and people like him. While I thank you for sharing your opinions but sadly I feel it is mostly uninformed ASSumptions. In the US there is an old saying, it you assume too much, you make an "A$$" out of you.
;-)

Take it easy "Bro".

Shalom!

-----Original Message-----
From: Dev Saha <devsaha5@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:14 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling

 
May I ask how many billions of years our creator(s) had to research before 'He' could create the human machine? Why did He create so many other millions of species? Do they pray too to the same God? Why would God create pests and viruses to kill innocent babies? How many years did he work to devise those lethal weapons?

As far as I see your arguments, they are poor and pretty childish. Only thing that you got is basically a book and that has essentially blocked all your free thinking and questioning. No wonder why nothing has been created or made based on that book. You and your cohorts are basically freeloaders of modern society with virtually zero contribution. You can carry on another thousand years and you won't be able to create or invent anything. Mark my words!

While your theory of creation has not yielded any tangible products, our scientific research has created plenty of products that have totally changed you and our daily lives. Why do you think that I should go with  a half witted mollah than Einsteins of our world? The choice could not be anymore clearer!
-Dev



--- On Sun, 8/5/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, August 5, 2012, 4:52 PM

 
I think you got wrong end of the stick. With your flawed logic, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates and our inventors would be considered as Gawd like creators. Maybe, they are to some people, who believe in stories and fables.


>>>>>>>>>> I beg to differ. My logic is very simple and easy to understand. All the gadgets we use today required many years of research and inventors. Our body, the universe and Eco-system is FAR more COMPLEX than any computer.

It is illogical to think, they just appeared for "Randomness".

There are plenty of roads in Bangladesh that needs repairs and many places need new roads. They don't appear out of nothing. Why the heck, I am asked to accept the "Theory" that, we (With billions of cells in our body) appeared from "Randomness"??

As always, I have shared plenty of sources to support my ideas. Hope curious people will take the time to verify my ideas with an open mind. Just calling me "Wrong" is an easy escape (But within your right!).

Take care.


Shalom!

-----Original Message-----
From: Dev Saha <devsaha5@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Aug 2, 2012 4:59 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling

 
I think you got wrong end of the stick. With your flawed logic, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates and our inventors would be considered as Gawd like creators. Maybe, they are to some people, who believe in stories and fables.

-Dev Saha



--- On Tue, 7/31/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 31, 2012, 4:10 PM

 
Stop smoking, brother! Our universe was created from total randomness! It is a pure fluke that we exits

>>>>>>>>> Yup. The smartphones, computer, Big screen TV, sky scrappers just appeared from "Randomness"!! 


 The interesting thing to note that, our body is more complex than stuff I mentioned.

Yes, you are right. New planets are being created and destroyed in the universe. Who knew about it thousands of years ago???

The Qur'an spoke about it as well. Please click here


Those who are brave enough to really understand a different point of view, please click here.


Shalom!

-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jul 25, 2012 5:30 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling

 
Stop smoking, brother! Our universe was created from total randomness! It is a pure fluke that we exits. There are probably many more earth like planets are being created or destroyed as we speak. And, they might contain  different forms of life than ours. We do not even know. Religious books were written by people, who had only vague idea about math, physics, chemistry and biology. Not enough knowledge to think beyond our earth. Only thing, that they were capable of doing is to eat and poop. Do not tell me that people like Galileo and others only reinvented the wheels. That is a pure crap!
-SD 
 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling

 
How can I deny the existence of God in the Moher Nature?


>>>>>>>> Absolutely. No one can deny mother nature. I just think my praises are reserved for the power who created "Mother nature". Your cell phone did not make itself, it needed a maker (RIM, Apple, Nokia, Samsung...etc). Similarly the wonderful nature we see around us needed a "Maker" as well. A chapter in the Qur'an talks about it. It consistently ask readers the question, " Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?"

Indeed our Maker gave us so many gifts.

Shalom!




-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:05 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling

 
Religion was once a shuva-sanskar (positive reform) for the primitive societies, not any more. With the advent of the scientific and psychological advancement and understanding, the role of religion in the society is diminished. This is because - many of those good religious virtues are already adopted as norms in the society.  What's left to be adopted is the anti-modernity ku-sanskar (negative reform). Religionists are constantly fighting with pro-modernity forces to implement those anti-modernity ku-sanskars. As a result, religion has been a drag for the advancement of the modern societies now.
 
Now, as far as atheists are concerned - they are still fighting the conceptual battle over the existence of God, which is leading them to many psychological and conceptual conflicts. How can I deny something that is unknown? To me, it's a needless battle. God exists only in our concept. I am sure most people, except religionists, will agree that - all living-beings are the offspring of the Mother Nature. Spiritual songs of Rabindra Nath Tagore are all devoted to the Mother Nature. That was his conceptual God, I believe. Your conceptual God lives in your aptitude and imagination. How can I deny the existence of God in the Moher Nature?
 
Jiten Roy

--- On Tue, 7/17/12, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 8:41 AM

 
Yours may be one of some possible explanations. I still remember what Bani Basu, a novelist from West Bengal and wife of a Buddhist scholar, has written in the introduction of her "semi-historical" novel "Maitrya Jatak": "Dharma is a shuva sanskar". This "sanskar" (can we trnslate it into "superstition"? Probably not.) is the result of religious beliefs of thosands of years of our forefathers. To this has been added the strong religious environment the atheist is living in. It's foundation in our subconscious mind is so splod that even a "confirmed" atheist fails to escape it completely. And this manifests itself in an atheist's love for devotional or spiritual songs of  Rabindranath and others.  
 
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling
 
"Is it not fascinating that even the educated and culturally advanced atheists and skeptics love devotional songs written by our great lyricists? Why is it so? "

Very interesting observation!
Here is my two cents:
No matter how much we know about the nature and its laws, it will still be a mystery for us for many millions years to come. We will never be able to attain the absolute knowledge that we might need to predict a future incident like a plane crash in the sky or say, us facing certain deaths on certain dates. That insecurity might be a factor why we still do not mind to sing the hallelujah hymn to yield that undefined mysterious power to a greater power than ours own? 
-SD   
 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling
 
1.Use of drug has been an integral part of the culture of many secretive and semi-secretive cults. The "sati" had sometimes to be drugged to persuade her to walk onto the burning pyre of her dead husband. I have seen smoking of "ganja" by people (male) of all ages during the religious event called "trinather mela". In urban religious practices of Hinduism, this (smoking ganja) has been greatly marginalized or probably has vanished. Many Hindu sadhus cannot do without it. Drug opens spiritual window for the truth seeker. In my young life I have seen disciples (fans) sitting around the master (male or female) to get engaged in profound spiritual talks while smoking ganja.  
2. There has always been uses of the religion by the exploiters as the opiate of the masses. But it has other uses too. Think about a typical Indian Hindu mother with little education and who was born 80 years ago. Religion has taught her to completely devote herself to the service of her husband. This is exploitative part. On the other hand religion gives her God or gods and goddesses to be worshiped for piety and spiritual and mystical experiences and pleasure as well. Also observance of religious rituals is a part of her daily routine. Obviously fear factor is a motive force behind her religious behavior. But what about the 100-year old educated and highly religious father who sees same one God in every god and goddess and who has no belief in hell or heaven or in piety? Yes, at the times of hardships and distress he prays and tears roll down his cheeks while he is praying. Here religion provides him with a drug free comfort. Here I see a great utility of religion in the personal life of a believer. When he is in total despair, he completely submits himself to God.   
3. There is hardly any one who chose his own religion. He already has it by default and it is now his duty to practice it believing that it is a great thing and he should be proud of it. While practicing it and knowing more and more about it questions may however arise in his inquiring mind. 
4. Being proud of one's own religion and considering the same as the best one is typical of the educated and socially and politically conscious class. Common toiling and economically struggling people do not have time to engage in such a luxury. Even he has hardly any time to observe all the recommended rituals. 
5. Is it not fascinating that even the educated and culturally advanced atheists and skeptics love devotional songs written by our great lyricists? Why is it so?                        
 

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling
 
"it is a mere drug free comfort for our mind!"  In reality, the psychedelic drugs had a great role in the development and propagation of religions.
On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 7:49 PM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
"Religion is one such belief also. But, it brings some sort of pride in people."
I call it the last resort to belong to a huge cult. I would rather look at it from a Freudian angle. It is far easier to become a religious man than a true knowledge gatherer. It brings pride to people who have nothing else to proud of! Why would a criminal be interested in converting to born again in something after five consecutive murders? What would be a better choice for him/her? Learning more about how celestial objects are faithfully orbiting around other stars and planets? Or, take a new religious attire and demand respect from others? No doubt, the later sounds far easier! Look, my words are harsh but that is what I feel about religions. If anybody thinks that the God being on their side, I say, keep dreaming on brothers and sisters. To me, it is a mere drug free comfort for our mind! No more and no less! -SD  

"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling
 
People believe in many things; not all those beliefs are revealed to others. We all have our own prejudices/superstitions. Exposing one's prejudices is like exposing one's 'stupidities.' As a result, people rarely talk about them. How do you express that you believe in something that does not exist? Is it a sign of smartness or what?
Religion is one such belief also. But, it brings some sort of pride in people. So  they feel the need to show their religiosity to others in their religious attires and/or appearances to stir up otherwise nonexistent resentment and hatred. There is no end in sight to end these types of cultural disturbance in our societies.
 
Jiten Roy --- On Fri, 7/13/12, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, July 13, 2012, 9:53 AM

 
How you feel about your own faith and belief is not anybody's concern unless you impose your values and standard on others. To me, it is more important to see whether a belief takes people to the dark ages or enlightenment of a verifiable truth. I can tolerate your belief but may not respect your belief. If you are a free thinker, that should be totally OK with you as I would follow the same rule.
-SD 
 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling
 
If religious people can keep their religion private and stop boasting about their religion being the best, there would not any problem.
>>>>>>>> I agree. Actually arrogance is bad for all people. It eats up best qualities from our personalities. However, if you ask me about my faith and how I feel about it, you should be able to tolerate my "Opinion" on MY faith matters. I have seen people have some preconceived notions about religious people and often go with it. Having tolerance and rejecting/reducing arrogance are "Best practices" for any peaceful communities. No matter if you want to view it from religious point of view or secular point of view. Shalom!
-----Original Message----- From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Jul 10, 2012 6:47 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling
 
Only thing I can add here is that the people, who are truly spiritual and never stop asking questions about our origin and our relation to the universe should not have any problem with little critic.  If religious people can keep their religion private and stop boasting about their religion being the best, there would not any problem. But. that is not happening in practice and hence, they do deserve critic now and then. Any belief should be challenged now and then before it gets transformed as an universal truth. The next thing you will find that people will be demanding the religiously adjusted science in the public schools. Who would want that? How would reach to the next frontier with such compromised science?
-SD
 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling
 
I have thought about the question also - as to why people get offended by the criticism of their religions; why can't they leave it to God.  This is what I found.
People are interested in religion not only for the eternal rewards, but - also they are also interested in the brand name of the clan. Religion is no different from other commercial commodity. It needs to be sold for continued expansion, and criticism is not good for the business, and also for the reputation of the clan.  As a result, people cannot wait for God's punishment.
Now, the tolerance level of criticism varies from followers to followers. Some followers may care more about eternal rewards than expansionism. They will have more tolerance to criticism. Some followers could be totally indifferent of criticism. It's a matter of priority.
Having said that, I have to recognize that, while protecting the brand name is discouraged in some religions, it is mandatory in others. 
Jiten Roy --- On Tue, 7/3/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 3, 2012, 4:36 PM

 
Along with making a little correction in my post below, let me put forth my thoughts on one of the terms that I have used.
                                                                                                                   
Abusing Religion:
 
From time to time, many religious people accuse non-religious people and people of other religions of abusing their religion. Example: if someone were to open up the Bible and criticize something in it, he/she would be accused by some Christians of abusing their religion. I said "some" (as opposed to "many") for Christians, because I believe this group has progressed significantly for a lot of them to ignore such criticisms.
 
However, let us try some logic. What can be more abuse for God (Allah, Bhagaban, whatever else in other lanugages) than the so-called believers to think that He is not almighty, and that He needs help from them? What can be more doubting of God's power than thinking that He needs humans to fight for Him (or for His religion) in this world?
 
The way I see it, if someone actually insulted God or His messenger, a true believer could feel pity for the insulter. Because, according to the belief, the insult was against the most powerful, and the insulter might have invited big trouble for himself/herself in the form of punishment from God. If God knew best, the believer would have no business prescribing a punishment for the insulter. The most civilized and caring action for the believer would be to pray to God to change the insulter's mind, the power of which God certainly has according to his/her true belief.
 
The bottom line is, if religion was really for believing in the almighty God (Allah, Bhagaban, whatever else in other lanugages), as opposed to forming/maintaining/expanding a clan, there should be no reason for humans to fight, or to hate, for maintaining or promoting it.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
=================================================
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2012 9:32 AM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Let us not criticize religions, criticize religion-peddling
 
Indeed, I believe most of us in this forum are opposed to religion-peddling, as Ms. Majid wrote. As I wrote before, there is no point in opening up religious books for criticism, even when that might look scholarly.
 
I am opposed to the use, misuse and abuse of religions, all of which have caused a lot of division, hatred and injustice in the world. While I do not follow any religion, I am not unwilling to do something just because if was found in a religious book. In other words, I am perfectly OK to implement in my life anything that is good in the Koran, for example.
 
To me, all religious books are part of my history. None of them are "my religion" or "someone else's religion." I am open to follow anything good in any book. I have no animosity toward any religion. For me, no religion needs to have cadres of defenders.
 
However, I am certainly for discarding anything bad in any book. And I am unwilling to dig for contexts by which a seemingly bad teaching can be interpreted to be OK or good. Nor do I have time for overly-brainwashed 'scholars', who try to sustain and promote nonsense in what they think is 'their religion'.
 
The bottom line is, we should fight division, hatred and injustice that are promoted via use, misuse and abuse or religions.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
====================================
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Voice of the People
 
There is a gray area between religion itself and the way it is used by vested interest groups. In a God fearing society it is unproductive and sometimes catastrophic to bluntly criticize a religion. It antagonizes common people and the reactionary forces get an excuse to pull them on their own side. But can a society really progress without pointing out the weaknesses in a religion? Obviously, No. But if we do so, religious feelings of the believers cannot but be hurt. It is a dilemma indeed. When Dipa Mehta shows in her film "Water" the quote from Gandhi and Manusanhita side by side, the Hindutvabadis do not like it. But we come to know that Gandhi did not endorse all of sage Manu's sacred pronouncements.
 
======================================
From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 8:55 AM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Voice of the People
 
                  Do we all agree, on this one point, that we are all opposed to religion-peddling? I fervently hope that the answer is: YES.                 If so, then it is our solemn duty to understand the matter of 'religion-peddling'.                          In this business of religion -peddling it is the 'peddling' part that should command our attention.  And that requires certain in-depth and close attention to politics. Religion is a very powerful cultural artifice, and since both politics and religion deal with a community of people, there has been a mix of the two from time immemorial.  But we are constantly talking about religion-related  social symptoms, and mis-diagnosing them as 'religion'.  Why? There are several reasons.  One, mental laziness.  It takes a lot more patience and astute observation to do a political analysis. It needs historical information.              Throughout the 16th century in Europe , for instance, the Catholic Church was fighting an intense political battle with the breaking up of the Church.  The execution of the Nolan Magus and poet, Giordano Bruno, who was not a scientist or mathematician like Nicholas Copernicus, and the persecution of astronomer Galileo, a couple of decades later are indicative of the Church's political authority under severe pressure.  It is silly to cite this as the paradigmatic 'science v. religion' struggle.  It is a singular historical event within the context of Europe .               Both Dawkins and Hitchens are being totally dishonest in their discussions against religion. Dawkins is addressing the Creationists exclusively, and Hitchens's arguments apply to the Jehadists only.  Neither has the courage and intelligence of Karen Armstrong who discards the construction of the binary opposition of 'science v. religion' and refuses any hierarchical positioning of the two branches of knowledge.               Two, critiquing religion is a mask for communalism.  More on that later.                               Farida Majid
 
==============================




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