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Thursday, September 13, 2012

Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy



About a day or two ago, Dr. Jiten Roy said that he came to America with only $20 in his pocket and the land of opportunity has placed him where he is now. Maybe he now owns $20 million. As far as I know, any student of Physics who came to America for higher studies came with a job (assistantship) in hand. Some students even got the plane fare from the university. But think about the student who came to Dhaka university with 20 taka in hand and graduated with a good degree that helped him come to America. I know many Ph.Ds from good schools in America who are not doing "proper" jobs. I cannot say that those who are not getting jobs despite having good degrees are less smart. 
I hope nobody misunderunderstand me. No doubt this is a land of freedom and opportunities.  

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy
 
There is nobody else with the very same name as mine.  You should very well know where I come from, your origin being the same place.  Being a new convert you are expected to display more loyalty but having your trust in it is a different matter.  If the US-University system is among the great things in your opinion, you are unaware of it's history even sixty years ago.  Even the Ivy Leaguers were way behind the European ones.

The world would be much better off without the U. S. help and their intervention.


On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 6:45 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
I am sorry, I may have made a huge boo-boo; I was all along thinking you as someone else with the very same name.
You said: "I suggest you study the history of it's rise and it's contribution to the world politics for last few hundred years and develop a solid basis beneath the loyalty to your new found nation."
Now I know - where you are coming from, and why you can't find anything great about USA. How about US-University system? I know just about enough US history to appreciate it this much. Do you know what this world expects from USA? They want US help, but no influence. Is that a reasonable expectation? Show me any other country in the world which will satisfy this expectation. Don't judge everything with emotion; be a little bit practical thinker instead.
Jiten Roy
 --- On Thu, 9/13/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 13, 2012, 7:53 PM
 
I worked all my life in the land I was born, spent a few years for 'higher education' in the U. S. A., and I am not yet retired.  U.S.A. is a great nation built by ruining the Red Indians, snatching land away from other colonialists, and made rich by virtue of two great wars that left it untouched.  I suggest you study the history of it's rise and it's contribution to the world politics for last few hundred years and develop a solid basis beneath the loyalty to your new found nation.  
On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:51 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Let me explain my problem with most of your comments, they are usually 1 – 2 liners. So, usually, we have to guess what you mean. I am glad that you clarified your political bent. I believe, most people in this forum support democratic platform. That's fine with me. Political talks in this forum is meaningless. I can give hundred reasons why I support other party, but - nobody will change their mind. Then what's the point. So, let's stay away from politics.
 
The other issue you raised is interesting. You said you are staying away from US pressure-cooker society. I am not sure what that means. As far as I know, a substantial part of your life has been spent in the USA; you received higher education here, and worked here until retirement. Now, you feel US society is a pressure-cooker, and you live outside. It will be interesting if you care to explain a bit more on this, because I also think this society is moving away from the traditional values that made this country great. I do not like what I see recently.
 
You said that USA arranged and/or sat back while Japan attacked the Pearl Harbor, so that they can bomb Japan into Stone Age. It is apparent from your statements that – you are a contrarian, and believe in the conspiracy theories. You probably also believe 9/11 was planned by George Bush administration so they can attack Afghanistan and Iraq. My wife told me yesterday – she heard that - the infamous film was funded by middle-eastern money to spark the violence against the USA. All these are a bit nutty to me, to put it mildly. Then again, what do I know about the truth? After all, human-beings are the most dangerous animals on the planet.
 
Jiten Roy--- On Wed, 9/12/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, September 12, 2012, 11:56 PM
 
You seem overwhelmed with emotion.  I am not a Democratic voter, I do not even reside in that pressure cooker society called the U. S. A.  It's not unlikely for the U. S. agents to pull strings to stage such event as happened in Benghazi to raise the popularity of an incumbent U. S. President in the election year.  Remember, even the Pearl Harbor bombing was allowed to happen.  Hawaii is less an American island than Japanese; Of fifty states, nothing more than thirteen colonies should be legitimately claimed by the U. S. A.
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Oh, I see - if it is typical Republican response, it does not count. I forgot about that.
Can I accuse you as a brainwashed Democrat to dismiss everything you say?
Actually, I won't. I know everything you say, you mean it. And, I hope, you will believe that in my case also. I did not hide my political bent; it's not a secret. You and Dr. Jafforullah must know that.
Jiten Roy
 
--- On Wed, 9/12/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, September 12, 2012, 9:39 PM
 
Dr. Roy's response is typically republican.
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Jaffor <jaffor@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Dr. Jiten Roy could do himself a big favor by acquiring knowledge before posting his remarks here in M-M forum. Yes, this is not the first time that a U.S. ambassador was killed in a foreign land by terrorists in the line of duty. Francis E. Meloy, Jr. the U.S. ambassador to Lebanon was assassinated in 1976. There may be another one or two American ambassadors who were killed abroad while serving our nation. And he should not try to blame the killing on the liberal Democratic president. Lest he is losing his mind, Obama kept our forces miles away from Libya when people over there waged a civil war to topple Muamar Gadhafi. Many Republican Senators and Congressmen including John McCain had advocated sending troops to Libya. But Obama very cleverly avoided the direct involvement. Historically, Republicans take the nation to war. And the "Liberal" Democrats end the war. Examples are aplenty. The Korean War was ushered in by Dwight Eisenhower; Nixon escalated the Vietnam War by bombing Cambodia and Laos even though he did not start that War. I won't even mention GWB and RC's tireless effort to start 2 wars in Western Asia during 2001 and 2003. Dr. Roy should not be so trigger happy to post his comments in this forum. The more he opens his mouth, the more he reveals his ignorance and shallow mindedness about world affairs. Let us all agree that it is a sad day for the world. Needlessly, a diplomat had to lose his life. Lastly, Dr. Roy should not make the forum muddy by posting his partisan comments such as Obama's liberal policy has made this wanton killing possible. --- In mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...> wrote:>> Obama response is tepid and insincere.  Hillary response is nonsensical. Our spineless liberal administration is up to no good. This inept administration can’t handle anything, be that domestic or foreign. Embassy is US property, and an attack on that property on 9/11 by foreigners is nothing but another 9/11. You are so right. It’s not an accident that â€" they chose this day to attack US embassy to protest for a U-tube video, and kill US Ambassador. I don’t know if ever before an US Ambassador got killed in a foreign country.   > - JR  > > --- On Wed, 9/12/12, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@...> wrote:> > > From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@...>
> Subject: [mukto-mona] Obama vows justice for killed US envoy> To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> > Cc: "bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com" <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, September 12, 2012, 2:54 PM> > >
>  
> > > > > > Is this another 9/11 anniversary? They have killed a friend and good man! I do not think a video film is the only cause for such outrage.> > -SD> > Libya attack: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy> >
> US President Barack Obama: "There is absolutely no justification for this type of senseless violence"> > > US President Barack Obama has vowed to bring to justice the killers of the US ambassador to Libya during protests against a film that mocks Islam. > But he told reporters that the attack on the American consulate in Benghazi would not break the bonds between the US and the new Libyan government.> Mitt Romney, Mr Obama's political foe, criticised his handling of the crisis. > Ambassador J Christopher Stevens reportedly died of smoke inhalation after a crowd stormed the consulate.> > Three other Americans were also killed and the consulate set ablaze. > Rocket-propelled grenades were reportedly fired during the assault on Tuesday night. > Charred vehicles could be seen parked near the damaged buildings on Wednesday.> A US marine anti-terrorism team is being sent to Libya to bolster security after the attack, a US defence source told reporters in Washington.> Protesters against the film attacked the US embassy in Cairo on Tuesday night.> In other developments on Wednesday: > > Nigeria placed its police force on red alert to guard against attacks related to the controversial film> The US embassy in Algiers warned Americans in Algeria to avoid non-essential travel amid calls for protests on social media > > Tunisian police fired tear gas and rubber bullets into the air to disperse a protest by several hundred people near the US embassy in the Tunisian capital, Tunis, as they chanted slogans including "Obama, Obama, we are here for the triumph of Islam", Reuters reports > > Demonstrations were reported outside the US embassy in the Sudanese capital Khartoum and the US consulate in Casablanca, Morocco, as well as outside the UN offices in the Gaza Strip > > The Afghan government ordered a block on Youtube until the offending film was removed but the site was still visible to internet users in Kabul'Especially tragic' > Speaking in the Rose Garden at the White House, President Obama told reporters: "Make no mistake. Justice will be done." > He said he condemned "in the strongest possible terms the outrageous and shocking" attack.> > > Analysis
> Jonathan Marcus BBC Diplomatic Correspondent > The killing of the US ambassador to Libya, Christopher Stevens, along with three other US embassy staff, raises a host of questions about security, the prevalence of armed militias in the country and the whole trajectory of Libya's democratic project. > The Obama administration in Washington will want answers from the Libyan government about the scale of the security measures in place at its consulate in Benghazi and how demonstrators were able to get into the building. > More broadly the ambassador's death highlights the continuing instability in Libya as the country struggles to establish security and the rule of law. > The country is awash with weapons and armed militias - some of a salafist or extreme Islamic fundamentalist outlook - hold sway in many areas. > "It is especially tragic that Chris Stevens died in Benghazi because it is a city that he helped to save," he added, praising the dead ambassador for his work in Libya after the overthrow of the late Col Muammar Gaddafi.> Reports say a militia known as the Ansar al-Sharia brigade was involved in the attack, but the group has denied the claim, the BBC's Rana Jawad in Tripoli says. > Ambassador Stevens and his staff went to the consulate in an attempt to evacuate the site after it was attacked, the Associated Press news agency said.> The building apparently came under attack by a crowd armed with guns and rocket-propelled grenades. > The Libyan doctor who treated Mr Stevens in hospital said he died of severe asphyxiation, apparently from smoke inhalation, with no other injuries> Dr Ziad Abu Zeid, who told AP he tried for 90 minutes to revive him, said Mr Stevens was the only American brought into the Benghazi Medical Centre and initially nobody realised he was the ambassador. > > > US media reaction> Time correspondent Ashraf Khalil describes the scene on the ground in Egypt and concludes the reaction to the film was "essentially a case of an American group of fringe Christian fundamentalists successfully provoking and enraging a similar group of fringe Muslim fundamentalists". > ABC's Jake Tapper explains the chronology of events in Egypt and Libya as the Romney campaign accused the White House on Tuesday of being sympathetic with those who waged the attacks. > NBC calls Mr Romney's criticism of the Obama administration "one of the most over-the-top and incorrect attacks of the general-election campaign". > In the International Herald Tribune, Harvey Morris shares Christopher Stevens' recent emails with him about his hopes for Libya.> Libya's interim leader, Mohammed Magarief, apologised to the US over the killings, which he called "cowardly criminal acts". > Libya's deputy envoy to the UN, Ibrahim Dabashi, told the UN Security Council that his government was carrying out an investigation but he admitted it did not control all of Libya's territory.> "We cannot understand how this group, or these persons, could have eliminated such a wonderful person," he said. > Both UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and the UN Security Council condemned the attack.> Mr Romney, Mr Obama's Republican challenger in this November's presidential election, said the Obama administration had appeared to "sympathise with those who waged the attacks" in Benghazi and Cairo.
> Mr Obama's team, he said, had sent "mixed signals to the world" in the face of violence.Safety concerns
> UK Prime Minister David Cameron said he had sent condolences to President Obama and that he expected the new Libyan authorities to "do all in their power... to bring the killers to justice".> Continue reading the main story > US ambassadors killed in line of duty> > John Gordon Mein - Guatemala, 1968: Shot dead by rebels who ambushed his car> Cleo A Noel Jr - Sudan, 1973: Shot dead along with senior US and Belgian diplomats by Palestinian militants, after being taken hostage in Saudi embassy > Rodger P Davies - Cyprus, 1974: Killed by sniper gunfire during a protest at US embassy by Greek Cypriots> Francis E Meloy Jr - Lebanon, 1976: Kidnapped and shot dead by Palestinian militants in Beirut with another senior US official > Adolph Dubs - Afghanistan, 1979: Killed in exchange of fire after Afghan and Soviet forces tried to free him from kidnappers in hotel> Our correspondent says many people in Libya are still armed following the conflict that overthrew Gaddafi. > Analysts say the attack will raise serious new concerns about stability in the country and the ability of the new Libyan administration to maintain security. > In June, two British bodyguards were injured in an attack in Benghazi on a convoy carrying the British ambassador to Libya. Red Cross and UN staff also came under attack this year.> Correspondents say the film at the heart of the row, which appeared on Youtube translated into Arabic, is highly provocative and insulting to Muslims. > An Islamic tenet bans the portrayal of the Prophet Muhammad.> Cartoons featuring the founder of Islam sparked violent unrest among Muslims in 2005 when they were published by a Danish newspaper.> > > > > > > > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19577913
>  
> "All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS>


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Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy



K. Das: ".... you are unaware of it's history even sixty years ago.  Even the Ivy Leaguers were way behind the European ones."
 
Look at the progress in the USA in 60 years. Can you appreciate it at least? Why didn't you select one of the European Universities for your higher education? 

 

If you want to dwell in the world that existed 60 years earlier or in the era of Columbus, be my guest. Does it bother you that I have so much loyalty to this country?

  

Jiten Roy


--- On Thu, 9/13/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 13, 2012, 9:40 PM

 
There is nobody else with the very same name as mine.  You should very well know where I come from, your origin being the same place.  Being a new convert you are expected to display more loyalty but having your trust in it is a different matter.  If the US-University system is among the great things in your opinion, you are unaware of it's history even sixty years ago.  Even the Ivy Leaguers were way behind the European ones.

The world would be much better off without the U. S. help and their intervention.


On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 6:45 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

I am sorry, I may have made a huge boo-boo; I was all along thinking you as someone else with the very same name.

You said: "I suggest you study the history of it's rise and it's contribution to the world politics for last few hundred years and develop a solid basis beneath the loyalty to your new found nation."

Now I know - where you are coming from, and why you can't find anything great about USA. How about US-University system? I know just about enough US history to appreciate it this much. Do you know what this world expects from USA? They want US help, but no influence. Is that a reasonable expectation? Show me any other country in the world which will satisfy this expectation. Don't judge everything with emotion; be a little bit practical thinker instead.

Jiten Roy

 

--- On Thu, 9/13/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 13, 2012, 7:53 PM


 
I worked all my life in the land I was born, spent a few years for 'higher education' in the U. S. A., and I am not yet retired.  U.S.A. is a great nation built by ruining the Red Indians, snatching land away from other colonialists, and made rich by virtue of two great wars that left it untouched.  I suggest you study the history of it's rise and it's contribution to the world politics for last few hundred years and develop a solid basis beneath the loyalty to your new found nation.  

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:51 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Let me explain my problem with most of your comments, they are usually 1 – 2 liners. So, usually, we have to guess what you mean. I am glad that you clarified your political bent. I believe, most people in this forum support democratic platform. That's fine with me. Political talks in this forum is meaningless. I can give hundred reasons why I support other party, but - nobody will change their mind. Then what's the point. So, let's stay away from politics.

 

The other issue you raised is interesting. You said you are staying away from US pressure-cooker society. I am not sure what that means. As far as I know, a substantial part of your life has been spent in the USA; you received higher education here, and worked here until retirement. Now, you feel US society is a pressure-cooker, and you live outside. It will be interesting if you care to explain a bit more on this, because I also think this society is moving away from the traditional values that made this country great. I do not like what I see recently.

 

You said that USA arranged and/or sat back while Japan attacked the Pearl Harbor, so that they can bomb Japan into Stone Age. It is apparent from your statements that – you are a contrarian, and believe in the conspiracy theories. You probably also believe 9/11 was planned by George Bush administration so they can attack Afghanistan and Iraq. My wife told me yesterday – she heard that - the infamous film was funded by middle-eastern money to spark the violence against the USA. All these are a bit nutty to me, to put it mildly. Then again, what do I know about the truth? After all, human-beings are the most dangerous animals on the planet.

 

Jiten Roy
--- On Wed, 9/12/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, September 12, 2012, 11:56 PM


 
You seem overwhelmed with emotion.  I am not a Democratic voter, I do not even reside in that pressure cooker society called the U. S. A.  It's not unlikely for the U. S. agents to pull strings to stage such event as happened in Benghazi to raise the popularity of an incumbent U. S. President in the election year.  Remember, even the Pearl Harbor bombing was allowed to happen.  Hawaii is less an American island than Japanese; Of fifty states, nothing more than thirteen colonies should be legitimately claimed by the U. S. A.

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Oh, I see - if it is typical Republican response, it does not count. I forgot about that.

Can I accuse you as a brainwashed Democrat to dismiss everything you say?

Actually, I won't. I know everything you say, you mean it. And, I hope, you will believe that in my case also. I did not hide my political bent; it's not a secret. You and Dr. Jafforullah must know that.

Jiten Roy

 

--- On Wed, 9/12/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, September 12, 2012, 9:39 PM


 
Dr. Roy's response is typically republican.

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Jaffor <jaffor@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Dr. Jiten Roy could do himself a big favor by acquiring knowledge before posting his remarks here in M-M forum. Yes, this is not the first time that a U.S. ambassador was killed in a foreign land by terrorists in the line of duty. Francis E. Meloy, Jr. the U.S. ambassador to Lebanon was assassinated in 1976. There may be another one or two American ambassadors who were killed abroad while serving our nation.

And he should not try to blame the killing on the liberal Democratic president. Lest he is losing his mind, Obama kept our forces miles away from Libya when people over there waged a civil war to topple Muamar Gadhafi. Many Republican Senators and Congressmen including John McCain had advocated sending troops to Libya. But Obama very cleverly avoided the direct involvement. Historically, Republicans take the nation to war. And the "Liberal" Democrats end the war. Examples are aplenty. The Korean War was ushered in by Dwight Eisenhower; Nixon escalated the Vietnam War by bombing Cambodia and Laos even though he did not start that War. I won't even mention GWB and RC's tireless effort to start 2 wars in Western Asia during 2001 and 2003.

Dr. Roy should not be so trigger happy to post his comments in this forum. The more he opens his mouth, the more he reveals his ignorance and shallow mindedness about world affairs.

Let us all agree that it is a sad day for the world. Needlessly, a diplomat had to lose his life. Lastly, Dr. Roy should not make the forum muddy by posting his partisan comments such as Obama's liberal policy has made this wanton killing possible.

--- In mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...> wrote:
>
> Obama response is tepid and insincere.  Hillary response is nonsensical. Our spineless liberal administration is up to no good. This inept administration can’t handle anything, be that domestic or foreign. Embassy is US property, and an attack on that property on 9/11 by foreigners is nothing but another 9/11. You are so right. It’s not an accident that â€" they chose this day to attack US embassy to protest for a U-tube video, and kill US Ambassador. I don’t know if ever before an US Ambassador got killed in a foreign country.  
> - JR  
>
> --- On Wed, 9/12/12, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@...>

> Subject: [mukto-mona] Obama vows justice for killed US envoy
> To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: "bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com" <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>
> Date: Wednesday, September 12, 2012, 2:54 PM
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
> Is this another 9/11 anniversary? They have killed a friend and good man! I do not think a video film is the only cause for such outrage.
>
> -SD
>
> Libya attack: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy
>
>
> US President Barack Obama: "There is absolutely no justification for this type of senseless violence"
>
>
> US President Barack Obama has vowed to bring to justice the killers of the US ambassador to Libya during protests against a film that mocks Islam.
> But he told reporters that the attack on the American consulate in Benghazi would not break the bonds between the US and the new Libyan government.
> Mitt Romney, Mr Obama's political foe, criticised his handling of the crisis.
> Ambassador J Christopher Stevens reportedly died of smoke inhalation after a crowd stormed the consulate.
>
> Three other Americans were also killed and the consulate set ablaze.
> Rocket-propelled grenades were reportedly fired during the assault on Tuesday night.
> Charred vehicles could be seen parked near the damaged buildings on Wednesday.
> A US marine anti-terrorism team is being sent to Libya to bolster security after the attack, a US defence source told reporters in Washington.
> Protesters against the film attacked the US embassy in Cairo on Tuesday night.
> In other developments on Wednesday:
>
> Nigeria placed its police force on red alert to guard against attacks related to the controversial film
> The US embassy in Algiers warned Americans in Algeria to avoid non-essential travel amid calls for protests on social media
>
> Tunisian police fired tear gas and rubber bullets into the air to disperse a protest by several hundred people near the US embassy in the Tunisian capital, Tunis, as they chanted slogans including "Obama, Obama, we are here for the triumph of Islam", Reuters reports
>
> Demonstrations were reported outside the US embassy in the Sudanese capital Khartoum and the US consulate in Casablanca, Morocco, as well as outside the UN offices in the Gaza Strip
>
> The Afghan government ordered a block on Youtube until the offending film was removed but the site was still visible to internet users in Kabul'Especially tragic'
> Speaking in the Rose Garden at the White House, President Obama told reporters: "Make no mistake. Justice will be done."
> He said he condemned "in the strongest possible terms the outrageous and shocking" attack.
>
>
> Analysis
> Jonathan Marcus BBC Diplomatic Correspondent
> The killing of the US ambassador to Libya, Christopher Stevens, along with three other US embassy staff, raises a host of questions about security, the prevalence of armed militias in the country and the whole trajectory of Libya's democratic project.
> The Obama administration in Washington will want answers from the Libyan government about the scale of the security measures in place at its consulate in Benghazi and how demonstrators were able to get into the building.
> More broadly the ambassador's death highlights the continuing instability in Libya as the country struggles to establish security and the rule of law.
> The country is awash with weapons and armed militias - some of a salafist or extreme Islamic fundamentalist outlook - hold sway in many areas.
> "It is especially tragic that Chris Stevens died in Benghazi because it is a city that he helped to save," he added, praising the dead ambassador for his work in Libya after the overthrow of the late Col Muammar Gaddafi.
> Reports say a militia known as the Ansar al-Sharia brigade was involved in the attack, but the group has denied the claim, the BBC's Rana Jawad in Tripoli says.
> Ambassador Stevens and his staff went to the consulate in an attempt to evacuate the site after it was attacked, the Associated Press news agency said.
> The building apparently came under attack by a crowd armed with guns and rocket-propelled grenades.
> The Libyan doctor who treated Mr Stevens in hospital said he died of severe asphyxiation, apparently from smoke inhalation, with no other injuries
> Dr Ziad Abu Zeid, who told AP he tried for 90 minutes to revive him, said Mr Stevens was the only American brought into the Benghazi Medical Centre and initially nobody realised he was the ambassador.
>
>
> US media reaction
> Time correspondent Ashraf Khalil describes the scene on the ground in Egypt and concludes the reaction to the film was "essentially a case of an American group of fringe Christian fundamentalists successfully provoking and enraging a similar group of fringe Muslim fundamentalists".
> ABC's Jake Tapper explains the chronology of events in Egypt and Libya as the Romney campaign accused the White House on Tuesday of being sympathetic with those who waged the attacks.
> NBC calls Mr Romney's criticism of the Obama administration "one of the most over-the-top and incorrect attacks of the general-election campaign".
> In the International Herald Tribune, Harvey Morris shares Christopher Stevens' recent emails with him about his hopes for Libya.
> Libya's interim leader, Mohammed Magarief, apologised to the US over the killings, which he called "cowardly criminal acts".
> Libya's deputy envoy to the UN, Ibrahim Dabashi, told the UN Security Council that his government was carrying out an investigation but he admitted it did not control all of Libya's territory.
> "We cannot understand how this group, or these persons, could have eliminated such a wonderful person," he said.
> Both UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and the UN Security Council condemned the attack.
> Mr Romney, Mr Obama's Republican challenger in this November's presidential election, said the Obama administration had appeared to "sympathise with those who waged the attacks" in Benghazi and Cairo.
> Mr Obama's team, he said, had sent "mixed signals to the world" in the face of violence.Safety concerns
> UK Prime Minister David Cameron said he had sent condolences to President Obama and that he expected the new Libyan authorities to "do all in their power... to bring the killers to justice".
> Continue reading the main story
> US ambassadors killed in line of duty
>
> John Gordon Mein - Guatemala, 1968: Shot dead by rebels who ambushed his car
> Cleo A Noel Jr - Sudan, 1973: Shot dead along with senior US and Belgian diplomats by Palestinian militants, after being taken hostage in Saudi embassy
> Rodger P Davies - Cyprus, 1974: Killed by sniper gunfire during a protest at US embassy by Greek Cypriots
> Francis E Meloy Jr - Lebanon, 1976: Kidnapped and shot dead by Palestinian militants in Beirut with another senior US official
> Adolph Dubs - Afghanistan, 1979: Killed in exchange of fire after Afghan and Soviet forces tried to free him from kidnappers in hotel
> Our correspondent says many people in Libya are still armed following the conflict that overthrew Gaddafi.
> Analysts say the attack will raise serious new concerns about stability in the country and the ability of the new Libyan administration to maintain security.
> In June, two British bodyguards were injured in an attack in Benghazi on a convoy carrying the British ambassador to Libya. Red Cross and UN staff also came under attack this year.
> Correspondents say the film at the heart of the row, which appeared on Youtube translated into Arabic, is highly provocative and insulting to Muslims.
> An Islamic tenet bans the portrayal of the Prophet Muhammad.
> Cartoons featuring the founder of Islam sparked violent unrest among Muslims in 2005 when they were published by a Danish newspaper.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19577913
>  

> "All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
>







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Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: Re: Fw: [Dahuk]: Sunil molested me:Taslima



Prof. Kamal Das has recently opined that Taslima's "Lajja" initially had no repurcussions in Bangladesh. He is right. Whatever reactions---some very violent---were manufactured by a section of communalist "bhodrolokes" and obviously by the Islamic fundamentaists. That means the whole issue was tactfully politicized and many knowingly or unknowingly got trapped into it. Common people of Bangladesh are not only noncommunal, they are very simple minded. They have no problem in accepting the fact that minority persecution is a reality. Ordinary people are also victims of oppression and exploitation by the powerful people of the country. Only the "bhodrolokes" worry about the "bhabmoorti" of the country, common people do not have time to do it.    

From: Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; Khobor <khabor@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: Re: Fw: [Dahuk]: Sunil molested me:Taslima

 
তসলিমা নাসরিনকে নিয়ে এখন মুক্তমনায় অনেক লেখা দেখছি/ অধিকাংশ বিপক্ষে এবং সেটাই স্বাভাবিক/ কারণ: তসলিমাকে বুঝতে হলে যেটুকু জ্ঞান থাকা প্রয়োজন, অধিকাংশের তা নেই/ আর এক দল আছেন, যারা তসলিমাকে গালি দিয়ে টিকে থাকতে চান-যেমন সুনীলবাবু/ যারা 'লজ্জা' নিয়ে তসলিমাকে গালি দেয়; তারা মোটামুটি সবাই সাম্প্রদায়িক/ এরা কেউ থাকবেন না; তসলিমা থাকবেন/ আমার ধারণা, এ মুহুর্তে বাংলা সাহিত্যে তসলিমার ধরে কাছেও কেউ নেই; তাই ওরা আজেবাজে বকছে/ তসলিমার দোষ মাঝে মাঝে তিনি সত্য বলে ফেলেন; তার সাহস আছে; যারা তার সমালোচনা করেন, তারা সত্য মানতে ভয় পান/ তসলিমা মৌলবাদীদের গালে সজোরে যে থাপ্পরটি মেরেছেন; ওরা সেটি আজো ভুলতে পারছে না/ ধন্যবাদ/
শিতাংশু গুহ
৬৪৬-৬৯৬-৫৫৬৯


 
On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:




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Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: Re: Fw: [Dahuk]: Sunil molested me:Taslima



Mr. Guha, Does Taslima have more depth than Sunil in her writings.  I have been told, she plagiarized in her early feminist columns.  Hadn't she been promoted by Sunil in her earlier career?  Now after all these years, she is revealing the real reason behind it. Did she have no role in that 'molestation' and is this revelation just a 'tip of the iceberg'?

2012/9/13 Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@gmail.com>
 

তসলিমা নাসরিনকে নিয়ে এখন মুক্তমনায় অনেক লেখা দেখছি/ অধিকাংশ বিপক্ষে এবং সেটাই স্বাভাবিক/ কারণ: তসলিমাকে বুঝতে হলে যেটুকু জ্ঞান থাকা প্রয়োজন, অধিকাংশের তা নেই/ আর এক দল আছেন, যারা তসলিমাকে গালি দিয়ে টিকে থাকতে চান-যেমন সুনীলবাবু/ যারা 'লজ্জা' নিয়ে তসলিমাকে গালি দেয়; তারা মোটামুটি সবাই সাম্প্রদায়িক/ এরা কেউ থাকবেন না; তসলিমা থাকবেন/ আমার ধারণা, এ মুহুর্তে বাংলা সাহিত্যে তসলিমার ধরে কাছেও কেউ নেই; তাই ওরা আজেবাজে বকছে/ তসলিমার দোষ মাঝে মাঝে তিনি সত্য বলে ফেলেন; তার সাহস আছে; যারা তার সমালোচনা করেন, তারা সত্য মানতে ভয় পান/ তসলিমা মৌলবাদীদের গালে সজোরে যে থাপ্পরটি মেরেছেন; ওরা সেটি আজো ভুলতে পারছে না/ ধন্যবাদ/
শিতাংশু গুহ


 
On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:




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Re: [mukto-mona] Turkish Abortion Debate Renewed After Nevin Yildirim Beheads Alleged Rapist



The book is a short one, would need a little over an hour to read, and is available on the net.  A point proved over hundred pages can not be presented by a few lines.  You seem to lack that comprehension.  You would not find me bright, may be because I am not so, and their might be other reasons too, like you have lost your eyesight if you ever had any.  Their are other observations by reputed authors on the subject of rape or sex(which by the way are very different subjects) between opposite genders.  A classic allegation was made by Julekha against Yusuf/Joseph.  Luckily he could present a shirt to prove that the lady was the real attacker.  Other accused are not so fortunate.

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 6:08 PM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

"In this case, the 'victim' did not resort to any legal means, she silenced the 'predator' and does not deserve sympathy from any corner."

 Any legal means in a patriarchal country like Turkey, where rape is still a family shame and taboo? You have lost your mind. Besides, the lady might need four witnesses to testify about those rapes.
I do not know what kind of professor you are? I do not find you very bright.
If you want to cite some reference, cite some scientific findings and data. An opinion from some psychiatrist is not good enough. Besides, you are throwing a whole book for me to read and find me the answer. Why don't you exactly quote what this man has written? Tell me how he did his experiments? I do not think you are up to that task.
-SD


"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:12 PM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Turkish Abortion Debate Renewed After Nevin Yildirim Beheads Alleged Rapist

 
"According to Prof. Das's theory, a second assault would make things totally kosher because the female victim probably initiates that encounter? All of a sudden a victim becomes a predator?"  This is a total misinterpretationIn this case, the 'victim' did not resort to any legal means, she silenced the 'predator' and does not deserve sympathy from any corner.  The real story in a rape case is rarely exposed.  Statistically, more 'rapes' are committed by acquaintances.  If the first few go unreported, the instigation factor can not be ignored.  It is apparent, whose argument is 'silly and stupid'.  If someone does not care a professional psychiatrist or a best seller book, it is his problem, and he should look for a graceful exit before even advising others to do so.

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 12:04 AM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
I think the bone of contention for this argument is whether a predator assaults his victims once or twice? According to Prof. Das's theory, a second assault would make things totally kosher because the female victim probably initiates that encounter? All of a sudden a victim becomes a predator? I think the argument is pretty silly and stupid!

-SD

 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 12:28 PM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Turkish Abortion Debate Renewed After Nevin Yildirim Beheads Alleged Rapist

 
This is what I think. Love-making between two lovers may get affected without female cooperation. This has to do with love and attraction for each other. When female does not cooperate, love and attraction disappear from the scene, and male feels rejection, which may affect his psyche. But, it will not be applicable to a rape, where the male attacker is mentally in a different state of mind; he is looking for sex, nothing else.
 
Jiten Roy
 

--- On Wed, 9/12/12, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Turkish Abortion Debate Renewed After Nevin Yildirim Beheads Alleged Rapist
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 12, 2012, 11:28 AM

 
Do you think I care who is professor and who is not? Some professorial positions/names do not cut with me, bro  Please put some solid data to prove your point if you care.  Show us some rape simulation data regarding what hormones or chemicals are being induced or secreted from the victims' brains in comparison to a normal intercourse. If you can't, please take a graceful exit from this discussion.
-SD

 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 2:10 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Turkish Abortion Debate Renewed After Nevin Yildirim Beheads Alleged Rapist

 
If you cared to Google search on the title of the book, you would have found out that it's author, Dr. Herb Goldberg, was a Professor of Psychology at the California State University at L.A., not quite some unknown quantity.

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 7:45 AM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Agree! A scientific paper/data/fact can be used as a reference and that would be totally kosher to me. But an opinion from some unknown quantity is totally worthless for any discussion.
-SD

 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 7:57 PM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Turkish Abortion Debate Renewed After Nevin Yildirim Beheads Alleged Rapist

 

I have seen over and over people quote books and quotes from others to draw conclusions. There is nothing wrong about it. I have written about it before in this forum. That could be the starting point of our discussion. We should not stop there.
 
There are thousands of instances where victims were drugged unconscious before rape. How did rapists do it? There was a story in this forum, where a Pakistani-man has raped about 60 women dead bodies in the morgue over a number of years. How did he do it? Dr. Das has initiated the discussion with his provocative quote.
 
This is how I see it. Behind every written book (be that religious, social,  political, or whatever) there is a writer. So, we should not take everything for granted just because we found it on a printed page. We should not let others manipulate our thinking. That's not Mukto-mona spirit. I need something new and unique from everybody, so I can learn from it. Let's bring it on.
 
By the way, Dr. K. Das brings many unique topics and this one was not any different.
 
Jiten Roy
--- On Tue, 9/11/12, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Turkish Abortion Debate Renewed After Nevin Yildirim Beheads Alleged Rapist
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com" <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 11, 2012, 7:51 AM

 

Total BS! Only thing a predator needs is to have enough power (money, food and physical) over his/her victims.
An unwilling partner would not cause a penis to loose its erection. In such scenario, no victim would have carried children from the acts of rape.
I could careless about another person's idiotic wisdom about male's sexual organ. It reminds me congressman Akin's idiotic quote.
-SD

Austrian father accused of imprisoning and raping daughters over four decades

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/25/austrian-father-accused-imprisoning-daughters


 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Turkish Abortion Debate Renewed After Nevin Yildirim Beheads Alleged Rapist

 
Rape is ninety nine percent violence.  No rapist can do it to the same 'victim' without her tacit approval.  There is a famous book entitled, "The hazards in being born a male".  In it their is a chapter, "The wisdom of Penis", where the author insists that the male organ would lose erection if the female partner lacks the wish.

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 8:15 AM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Not in the rape case, dear! I do deal with human brains every day. Trust me on that!

-SD
 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2012 8:24 PM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Turkish Abortion Debate Renewed After Nevin Yildirim Beheads Alleged Rapist

 
In sexual encounters among a man and a woman, the first signal is delivered by the female brain, the scientists say.  I hate to deliver the details.  Consider the brain as the most important organ in such encounters.

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 12:07 AM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
We know exactly how a guy can repetitively commit such crime in some remote villages of Turkey or Bangladesh. It is seldom that an woman would be found as the real sexual predator of such crime.
-SD
 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2012 3:17 AM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Turkish Abortion Debate Renewed After Nevin Yildirim Beheads Alleged Rapist

 
If she had no wish to be 'violated', how could the guy repeat the offence?  A murder might have been committed to eliminate the voice of the 'offender.

On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 4:19 AM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
I am not a psychologist but I can understand her anger for being violated so many times. As we can guess, the subject being a taboo, she lost her mind and did not care whether she lives or die. She was not satisfied with a simple killing. She went all the way the to behead this guy and make her point! I bet the guy really tormented this innocent looking lady.
-SD


 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS

From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> Sent: Saturday, September 8, 2012 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Turkish Abortion Debate Renewed After Nevin Yildirim Beheads Alleged Rapist

 
When state does not protect or defend your human rights, the victim may take law into her hands. By doing this the victim further endangers herself or himself. But it is good for the society as the society gets a jolt and makes it rethink about the laws it has.

From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com" <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 7, 2012 6:29 AM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Turkish Abortion Debate Renewed After Nevin Yildirim Beheads Alleged Rapist

 
My comment: Good riddance! There is line people should not cross!
-SD

A 26-year-old Turkish woman, who was impregnated by her rapist, reportedly shot and beheaded her alleged attacker to protect her honor. The case has forced the country into a new round in the intensifying debate over abortion.
Nevin Yildirim, a mother of two from Turkey's Yalvac district, faces charges of murder for the August killing of 35-year-old Nurettin Gider. Yildirim, according to CNN, is at least five months pregnant and claims she was rape-impregnated by Gider.
Yildirim told police that Gider, a father of two who was married to her husband's aunt, first raped her in January, when her husband left town to work a seasonal job.
Yildirim said Gider threatened to kill her children if she alerted anyone to the crime. The rapes allegedly continued over the course of the next several months and Gider reportedly threatened to publish photos he took of Yildirim's pregnant body if she did not do as he said, Turkish broadcaster DHA reported.
On Aug. 28, Yildirim claims spotted Gider climbing up a wall behind her house and grabbed a rifle that was hanging on the wall.
"I knew he was going to rape me again," Yildirim said at an Aug. 30 preliminary hearing.
Yildirim allegedly shot Gider twice and chased him from her property. She claimed in court he was armed at the time.
"He fell on the ground. He started cussing," she said. "I shot his sexual organ this time. He became quiet. I knew he was dead. I then cut his head off."
Witnesses told police they saw Yildirim walk into the village square, carrying Gider's bloody head by his hair.
"Don't talk behind my back, don't play with my honor," Yildirim allegedly told witnesses in the square as she threw Gider's head to the ground. "Here is the head of the man who played with my honor."
Authorities arrived on the scene shortly thereafter and Yildirim was taken into custody without incident.
"He kept saying that he would tell everyone [about the rape]," Yildirim told authorities, according to Doğan News Agency. "My daughter will start school this year. Everyone would have insulted my children. Now no one can."
"I saved my honor," she added. "They will now call [her children] 'the kids of the women who saved her honor.'"
According to CNN, Yildirim went to a health clinic for an abortion prior to the murder but was turned away because she was 14 weeks pregnant at the time. In Turkey, abortion is only permitted during the first 10 weeks of pregnancy. Anything beyond that requires a special circumstance.
Turkey's abortion debate has now been re-kindled as the public prosecutor's office considers Yildirim's request. Authorities are waiting for experts to weigh in on her mental stability.
"The extremity of Nevin's actions show the extent of the trauma the rape has caused," Dr. Gürsel Öztunalı Kayır, Foundation for Women's Solidarity, told International Business Times. "We shouldn't be distracted by the murder; if she wants to have an abortion following months of abuse, she should have the right."
Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, however, considers abortion "murder" and wants the practice outlawed. Melih Gökçek, mayor of the capital, Ankara, supports the proposed ban, saying a mother who considers abortion should "kill herself instead and not let the child bear the brunt of her mistake," IBT reported.
Women's groups in Turkey consider Yildirim a heroine. The case also resonates in the United States, where abortion remains a topic of heated debate.




 
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS


























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****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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