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Wednesday, December 19, 2012

Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate



"....functionalism, conflictism and interactionaism...." what the heck this man is talking about? 


This man is fabricating words such as "conflictism and intereactionaism." He needs psychological help.


Jiten Roy


--- On Wed, 12/19/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 19, 2012, 9:24 PM

 

As a student of mythology and folklore, I don't find any depth in your posting.  Primitive societies which created the concept of deity needed deities, and the concept was said to be propagated by the so called prophets, most of whom probably did not exist.  The list of the prophets whose existence is doubted includes the Jewish patriarchs, Jesus, and even Muhammad.

"I got post-modern interpretations out of functionalism, conflictism and interactionaism, but only just."  Do you really?




On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Manab Dharma <manabdharma@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Deities are not at all worth of discussion. All mumbo jumbo. Idolatry. Hocus Bocus. Historical figures like prophets are the core interest for historians, anthropologists and archeologists. Well, deities have some values of course - some sociologists find fairy tales appealing. I also do since I got post-modern interpretations out of functionalism, conflictism and interactionaism, but only just.



From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 7:44 AM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate

 
I asked you to connect Durga/Kali with Anahita(If you ever heard her name).  Your are not a person who deserves my personal attack.  Like you, I don't have a faith,  let alone be blinded by it.  As I understand, Ram/Ravana epic is not even Indian in origin. "Starting from Upanishad to other scriptures were written by those Outsiders"  -  Really?  What an invention!  Most of the Vedas is said to have been written by Agastya, most Puranas by Vyasdeva, and Upanishads had been written over a long period of time, roughly over a thousand years starting from eighth century before the common era.  Agastya and Vyas were definitely dark skinned.  Contribution by the "invading Aryans" in Hindu literature is really negligible.  Most deities of Indian religions that go by the name of Hinduism are dark skinned.  I wish you had the eyes to see them.  Your observations are almost always superficial.  To find out why Christians pray on Sunday, read the ancient history of Rome.  Didn't your prophet also observe Saturday as the day of congregation till he changed his direction of prayer?

I don't mean to offend you, but you are one of those who don't comprehend enough to be a discussant of what I post here.


On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 10:36 PM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
Member Das,

Not going answer your "Personal attacks" here. I think readers should judge me based on what I say here.


Just a clarification on my "Durga" comment. I am not calling her "A white skinned lady" but here we see a goddess who appeared "White" and the bad guy is of course is a "Dark skinned" Raban (AKA Ravana). I am NOT criticizing your faith, simply sharing an observation here.


Similarly if you look at most Hindi or Bangla movies from last 50 years, you will see the same TREND here. The "Good guy" is someone who does not look like an average Indian or Bengali but he is the hero!!


The point of this sharing is the native population have been "INVADED" many thousand years ago. Staring from Upanishad to other scriptures were written by those "Outsiders". Most of the gods and goddesses are also look more like someone from Afghanistan or Iran than someone from Bihar. For many hundred years, this evolved into what we call "Indian tradition".


You will observe similar things with Christianity as well. Since what we know as "Modern Christianity" is mostly influenced by Paul. Most of the NT verses were Paul's observation rather that what Jesus son of Mary (PBUH) said to his followers. If anyone is curious, there is an edition of Bible call "Red letter Bible" where commands from Jesus son of Mary (PBUH)
. You will discover how many outsiders gotten into the narrative. Also if you watch most movies on Jesus son of Mary (PBUH), you will see an European man than a Jew from Palestine. In reality, Jesus looked more like the average native Palestinian than a Nordic man from Sweden. But this is how it was influenced by local cultures. As per Bible Jesus son of Mary (PBUH) prayed on Saturdays but his "Followers" pray on Sundays!!


So most Christian think of Jesus as an European man.


Similarly Hindus religious figures also have a look that is NOT native Indian!! 



and don't see Kali as black.

>>>>>>>>> Very good question!

Yes I do. She is not exactly presented as "Showing lot of love" to people. She comes with Ma Kali wears a garland of skulls and a skirt of dismembered arms. She holds a sword and a freshly severed head dripping blood. NOT exactly a "Selling point" about goodness in Hinduism.

Again this is my OBSERVATION only as an "Outsider".

No matter how much word playing one does, you cannot escape the racist mentality in our sub-continent. Albeit Islam teaches us to be color blind but many Muslims are not. They are more influenced by local culture than religion. Even Arabs are not free from it either.

That is the reason I always speak about the Qur'an and last prophet Muhammad (PBUH), when we discuss about Islam.

Anyway, take it easy.

Shalom!




-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:39 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate

 
Mr. Rahman

You took course in a University on the subject of Aryans! Read
Koenraad Elst on the subject, he sure is not an 'ignorant Hindutva'
badi as you think. Fact remains that you read nothing of any
significance on anything, and understood even less. You see Durga as
white skinned lady, and don't see Kali as black. Can you connect
these ladies with Anahita?

Don't ever pretend the knowledge you don't have.






__._,_.___


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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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[mukto-mona] Re: বিজয় দিবসের অনুষ্টান> Victory Day Program





2012/12/19 Bangabandhu Parishad USA <usa.bbp@gmail.com>
বিজয় দিবসের অনুষ্টান
২১শে ডিসেম্বর শুক্রবার
 
যুক্তরাষ্ট্র বঙ্গবন্ধু পরিষদ; নির্মূল কমিটি, নিউইয়র্ক স্টেট ও সিটি; বঙ্গবন্ধু সাংস্ক্র্তিক কমিটি যৌথভাবে 'বিজয় দিবস' পালন করবে।
আগামী ২১শে ডিসেম্বর শুক্রবার বিকাল ৫টায় ক্লাবসনমে এ উপলক্ষ্যে মনোজ্ঞ সাংস্ক্র্তিক অনুষ্টান, আলোচনা সভা অনুষ্টিত হবে।
এতে শাহরিয়ার কবিরের 'Portrat of Jihad' ছবিটি দেখানো হবে। প্রবাসের গন্যমান্য ব্যক্তি; শিল্পী এতে অংশ নেবেন।
অনুষ্টান: 'বিজয় দিবস'।
তারিখ: ২১শে ডিসেম্বর শুক্রবার।
সময়: ৫ টা ।
স্থান: ক্লাবসনম
আপনাদের সবার উপস্তিতি একান্তভাবে কাম্য।
ধন্যবাদ।
 
শিতাংশু গুহ 
যুক্তরাষ্ট্র বঙ্গবন্ধু পরিষদ
 

'Victory Day' on Friday, 21st Dec 2012 @ 5pm at Club Sonom

Bangabandhu Parishad, USA; NirmulCommittee, NY & City chapter; and Bangabandhu Cultural association jointly will organize 'Victory Day' on Friday, 21st Dec 2012 @ 5pm at Club Sonom, Astoria. Shahriar Kabir's 'portrait of Jihad' will be shown at 6pm sharp. A colorful cultural function will be presented by Ms. Lata's group along with Rumi's group. Discussion program will be participated by renowned speakers. Please join with family and friends.


 



__._,_.___


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Call For Articles:

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               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate



Since birds of same feather flock together, it is very likely that one fool would support another.  Agastya is identified with a star named Cassiopeia.  Otherwise, according to Indian mythology, he is a dark skinned(Chandal) sage as was Parasara and VyasDev.  Rahman does not even see that Krishna is also dark skinned, Chakrabarty does not see that too.  He probably thinks that he is of Aryan descent.

Stupidity has many manifestations.  Did I ever declare myself omniscient, when even God has been proven not to be so.  I don't need a certificate from a low caliber idiot to know what I am.



On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Mr. Rahman is a believer. He also has an inquiring mind. To me he seems to be a voracious reader. It is evident from his posts. He provides solid references. I am not saying that his sources are most authentic. Who can, any way, guarantee that his are the right sources. Not even self declared omniscient Das. Let us follow the rules of engagement. Let us be respectful to one another and use logic and data to refute other's position. As we study more and more, we feel obliged to change our opinions. There is nothing wrong with it. It is called openness. Das himself seems to have changed his position on Sage Agastya who according to his earlier opinion was of non-Indian origin. Who knows? Historical accounts are changing continually due to new archaeological and other evidences. Yelling with ugly voice will divert attention to an unwanted direction. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 18, 2012, at 7:44 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

 

I asked you to connect Durga/Kali with Anahita(If you ever heard her name).  Your are not a person who deserves my personal attack.  Like you, I don't have a faith,  let alone be blinded by it.  As I understand, Ram/Ravana epic is not even Indian in origin. "Starting from Upanishad to other scriptures were written by those Outsiders"  -  Really?  What an invention!  Most of the Vedas is said to have been written by Agastya, most Puranas by Vyasdeva, and Upanishads had been written over a long period of time, roughly over a thousand years starting from eighth century before the common era.  Agastya and Vyas were definitely dark skinned.  Contribution by the "invading Aryans" in Hindu literature is really negligible.  Most deities of Indian religions that go by the name of Hinduism are dark skinned.  I wish you had the eyes to see them.  Your observations are almost always superficial.  To find out why Christians pray on Sunday, read the ancient history of Rome.  Didn't your prophet also observe Saturday as the day of congregation till he changed his direction of prayer?

I don't mean to offend you, but you are one of those who don't comprehend enough to be a discussant of what I post here.


On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 10:36 PM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 

Member Das,

Not going answer your "Personal attacks" here. I think readers should judge me based on what I say here.


Just a clarification on my "Durga" comment. I am not calling her "A white skinned lady" but here we see a goddess who appeared "White" and the bad guy is of course is a "Dark skinned" Raban (AKA Ravana). I am NOT criticizing your faith, simply sharing an observation here.


Similarly if you look at most Hindi or Bangla movies from last 50 years, you will see the same TREND here. The "Good guy" is someone who does not look like an average Indian or Bengali but he is the hero!!


The point of this sharing is the native population have been "INVADED" many thousand years ago. Staring from Upanishad to other scriptures were written by those "Outsiders". Most of the gods and goddesses are also look more like someone from Afghanistan or Iran than someone from Bihar. For many hundred years, this evolved into what we call "Indian tradition".


You will observe similar things with Christianity as well. Since what we know as "Modern Christianity" is mostly influenced by Paul. Most of the NT verses were Paul's observation rather that what Jesus son of Mary (PBUH) said to his followers. If anyone is curious, there is an edition of Bible call "Red letter Bible" where commands from Jesus son of Mary (PBUH)
. You will discover how many outsiders gotten into the narrative. Also if you watch most movies on Jesus son of Mary (PBUH), you will see an European man than a Jew from Palestine. In reality, Jesus looked more like the average native Palestinian than a Nordic man from Sweden. But this is how it was influenced by local cultures. As per Bible Jesus son of Mary (PBUH) prayed on Saturdays but his "Followers" pray on Sundays!!


So most Christian think of Jesus as an European man.


Similarly Hindus religious figures also have a look that is NOT native Indian!! 



and don't see Kali as black.

>>>>>>>>> Very good question!

Yes I do. She is not exactly presented as "Showing lot of love" to people. She comes with Ma Kali wears a garland of skulls and a skirt of dismembered arms. She holds a sword and a freshly severed head dripping blood. NOT exactly a "Selling point" about goodness in Hinduism.

Again this is my OBSERVATION only as an "Outsider".

No matter how much word playing one does, you cannot escape the racist mentality in our sub-continent. Albeit Islam teaches us to be color blind but many Muslims are not. They are more influenced by local culture than religion. Even Arabs are not free from it either.

That is the reason I always speak about the Qur'an and last prophet Muhammad (PBUH), when we discuss about Islam.

Anyway, take it easy.

Shalom!




-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:39 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate

 
Mr. Rahman

You took course in a University on the subject of Aryans! Read
Koenraad Elst on the subject, he sure is not an 'ignorant Hindutva'
badi as you think. Fact remains that you read nothing of any
significance on anything, and understood even less. You see Durga as
white skinned lady, and don't see Kali as black. Can you connect
these ladies with Anahita?

Don't ever pretend the knowledge you don't have.


Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (39)




__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate



As a student of mythology and folklore, I don't find any depth in your posting.  Primitive societies which created the concept of deity needed deities, and the concept was said to be propagated by the so called prophets, most of whom probably did not exist.  The list of the prophets whose existence is doubted includes the Jewish patriarchs, Jesus, and even Muhammad.

"I got post-modern interpretations out of functionalism, conflictism and interactionaism, but only just."  Do you really?




On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Manab Dharma <manabdharma@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Deities are not at all worth of discussion. All mumbo jumbo. Idolatry. Hocus Bocus. Historical figures like prophets are the core interest for historians, anthropologists and archeologists. Well, deities have some values of course - some sociologists find fairy tales appealing. I also do since I got post-modern interpretations out of functionalism, conflictism and interactionaism, but only just.



From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 7:44 AM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate

 
I asked you to connect Durga/Kali with Anahita(If you ever heard her name).  Your are not a person who deserves my personal attack.  Like you, I don't have a faith,  let alone be blinded by it.  As I understand, Ram/Ravana epic is not even Indian in origin. "Starting from Upanishad to other scriptures were written by those Outsiders"  -  Really?  What an invention!  Most of the Vedas is said to have been written by Agastya, most Puranas by Vyasdeva, and Upanishads had been written over a long period of time, roughly over a thousand years starting from eighth century before the common era.  Agastya and Vyas were definitely dark skinned.  Contribution by the "invading Aryans" in Hindu literature is really negligible.  Most deities of Indian religions that go by the name of Hinduism are dark skinned.  I wish you had the eyes to see them.  Your observations are almost always superficial.  To find out why Christians pray on Sunday, read the ancient history of Rome.  Didn't your prophet also observe Saturday as the day of congregation till he changed his direction of prayer?

I don't mean to offend you, but you are one of those who don't comprehend enough to be a discussant of what I post here.


On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 10:36 PM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
Member Das,

Not going answer your "Personal attacks" here. I think readers should judge me based on what I say here.


Just a clarification on my "Durga" comment. I am not calling her "A white skinned lady" but here we see a goddess who appeared "White" and the bad guy is of course is a "Dark skinned" Raban (AKA Ravana). I am NOT criticizing your faith, simply sharing an observation here.


Similarly if you look at most Hindi or Bangla movies from last 50 years, you will see the same TREND here. The "Good guy" is someone who does not look like an average Indian or Bengali but he is the hero!!


The point of this sharing is the native population have been "INVADED" many thousand years ago. Staring from Upanishad to other scriptures were written by those "Outsiders". Most of the gods and goddesses are also look more like someone from Afghanistan or Iran than someone from Bihar. For many hundred years, this evolved into what we call "Indian tradition".


You will observe similar things with Christianity as well. Since what we know as "Modern Christianity" is mostly influenced by Paul. Most of the NT verses were Paul's observation rather that what Jesus son of Mary (PBUH) said to his followers. If anyone is curious, there is an edition of Bible call "Red letter Bible" where commands from Jesus son of Mary (PBUH)
. You will discover how many outsiders gotten into the narrative. Also if you watch most movies on Jesus son of Mary (PBUH), you will see an European man than a Jew from Palestine. In reality, Jesus looked more like the average native Palestinian than a Nordic man from Sweden. But this is how it was influenced by local cultures. As per Bible Jesus son of Mary (PBUH) prayed on Saturdays but his "Followers" pray on Sundays!!


So most Christian think of Jesus as an European man.


Similarly Hindus religious figures also have a look that is NOT native Indian!! 



and don't see Kali as black.

>>>>>>>>> Very good question!

Yes I do. She is not exactly presented as "Showing lot of love" to people. She comes with Ma Kali wears a garland of skulls and a skirt of dismembered arms. She holds a sword and a freshly severed head dripping blood. NOT exactly a "Selling point" about goodness in Hinduism.

Again this is my OBSERVATION only as an "Outsider".

No matter how much word playing one does, you cannot escape the racist mentality in our sub-continent. Albeit Islam teaches us to be color blind but many Muslims are not. They are more influenced by local culture than religion. Even Arabs are not free from it either.

That is the reason I always speak about the Qur'an and last prophet Muhammad (PBUH), when we discuss about Islam.

Anyway, take it easy.

Shalom!




-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:39 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate

 
Mr. Rahman

You took course in a University on the subject of Aryans! Read
Koenraad Elst on the subject, he sure is not an 'ignorant Hindutva'
badi as you think. Fact remains that you read nothing of any
significance on anything, and understood even less. You see Durga as
white skinned lady, and don't see Kali as black. Can you connect
these ladies with Anahita?

Don't ever pretend the knowledge you don't have.






__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
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Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Who spawned communalism in India?



I do not cite Western references always, though they are more dependable than others.  Vivekananda cited Firestha, a Muslim historian of late twelfth century, and wrote the Hindu population was then 600 millions, during the Muslim rule it became 200 million in roughly five hundred years of Muslim rule.  Communal clash in India is a recent phenomenon, because before the British rule, it was one sided slaughter of Buddhists, Hindus and Sikhs(who might have called themselves Shaikh to save their butts) committed by the Muslim rulers.  When somebody, a child of a spineless convert, calls Muslim rule peaceful, it is a tolerable lie.  The person suffers from identity crisis.  When an outright idiot of Katzu/Chakrabarty variety also believes such things, how and why does he think he has an opinion.  Instead of taking Katzu seriously, you should read Anwar Shaikh, a former rioter in favor of Muslims who became apostate.  He rightly points out the spinelessness of Hindus and the slaughter committed by Muslims on them through ages.

Am I 'nakedly' attacking anybody differing in opinion with me?  Are these empty heads worth my attack?


On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Why is this Kamal guy like this? He is nakedly attacking every one with whom he differs in opinion. He seems to be a worshipper of orientalists. All his evidences come from orientalist sources. 
Instead of attacking me personally he should have done a little research to find why Katzu has opinions as presented in the article. My comment was based on my understanding of what he meant by communalism. I don't have to read Jadunath Sarkar to find that some Muslim rulers destroyed temples, killed innocent non-Muslims, and do on. Everybody knows it. But communal clash between Hindus and Muslims in general seems to be a recent phenomenon. To this has been added Hindu-Sikh and Hindu-Muslim clashes. While clash is the most extreme manifestation of communalism, we see other forms too. Katzu is right that this communalism is a great obstacle to economic progress. 
It is a thought provoking article and should be taken seriously. 
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 18, 2012, at 5:14 AM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

 

There was no communalism in India before 1857???!!!  Read Jadu Nath Sarker on the topic.  Communalism was at it's zenith during the Muslim rule.  The Chittorgarh fort alone was burnt thrice, last time by the 'non-communal' Akbar 'the Great'.  Over twelve thousand women had to drink poison and commit suicide in burning pyres.  Have you no sense of shame, if not any sense of history?  How were the Rajputs, Marathis and Sikhs crushed by the Muslim rulers?  In the Sultan period alone, eighty million Hindu heads rolled, countless women were sold as slaves.  Only non communal ruler among the Muslims, I suppose, was King Wazid Ali Shah of Oudh.  Even that was during the British rule.  Had the British not come, your fore fathers would have to chose between losing head or foreskin.

Do yourself a little favor, don a round white cap and never again exhibit your ignorance.  Muktomona forum, I believe, is not for those who have lost their minds.

On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

AMU does not seem to be a factor as Katzu has said that 80 percent of both Hindus and Muslims have fallen victims to the evil designs of the British rulers. My opinion is that 80 percent is too big a number. It is only a big fraction of the educated people who are proactively communal. Ordinary people are least communal. 
There is nothing wrong in being communal as long as intention is not to favor people of one's own community unjustifiably and harm the members of a perceived rival community without a valid reason. 
The Divide and Rule policy that British adopted to rule India has been pointed to by others also. There was no communalism before 1857---seems to be true to me when I look at all the major communal riots between Hindus and Muslims, Muslims and Sikhs, and Hindus and Sikhs all of which happened over the last 100 years. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 17, 2012, at 7:05 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

 

Justice Katzu has delivered a politically correct speech in the environment of Aligar Muslim University.  Only fools would take his speech seriously.  There is not much truth in it.  Communalism existed in India even from ancient times.  The concept of any religion considering itself superior to others is the root of communalism.

On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 6:29 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 


"He said that he had no hesitation to state that politicians had played a major role in spreading this poison deeper for serving their own vote bank politics."

 

British may have fomented communalism in the Indian-subcontinent, but – the torch-bearers of communalism from then on have been our good politicians. I don't blame British so much; they did what they thought Indians will bite, and they did. It worked so well that Indians started to chew thumbs for 200 years, and British started to rule the country even though it was not their initial intent. Therefore, if we want to blame anybody for communalism, we have to blame our politicians; they can't seem to have enough of it.

Justice Markandey Katju is right – those who are real instigators of communalism never get punished. Only the foot soldiers of communalism get punished, not the queen-bees, who trade communalism. In Bangladesh, politicians use communalism for politics. While Awami League uses communalism covertly, BNP uses communalism nakedly; it's a part of BNP political strategy.

How can we ever end communalism, if the queen-bee of communalism controls the power structure?

Jiten Roy

 


--- On Sun, 12/16/12, Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] FW: Who spawned communalism in India?
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "alapon@yahoogroups.com" <alapon@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, December 16, 2012, 6:58 AM


 
  I sincerely believe in this statement which can be applicable to Pakistan and Bangladesh as well:

<< Katju said, "India's steep decline on the tragic path of communalism can be reversed and the country can become one of the greatest industrial powers in the world if the educated Indians accept the challenge of demolishing the demon of communalism from the country. India can only thrive and become strong if the edifice of secularism becomes the cornerstone in the everyday life of the common man."  >>


T
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 09:49:05 +0800
Subject: [india-unity] Who spawned communalism in India?

 

British spawned communalism. History books doctored?: Justice Katju

December 15, 2012 by admin   


Justice Markandey Katju delivering the lecture at the Aligarh Muslim University, Aligarh
Justice Markandey Katju delivering the lecture at the Aligarh Muslim University, Aligarh
Uttar Pradesh, December 13, 2012: Addressing a huge gathering at the Kennedy Auditorium organized by the Aligarh Muslim University Chapter of the Progressive Writers' Association, the Chairman of the Press Council of India, Justice (Retd.) Markandey Katju asserted that in 1857, there was almost zero percent communalism in the country while today 80% of both Hindus and Muslims had fallen prey to the devil's designs.
Quoting extensively from historical documents, Katju said, "There is a plethora of documentary evidence available including correspondence between different Viceroys and British government, which makes it clear that history books were deliberately doctored by the British rulers to spawn communalism in India."
Katju said, "India's steep decline on the tragic path of communalism can be reversed and the country can become one of the greatest industrial powers in the world if the educated Indians accept the challenge of demolishing the demon of communalism from the country. India can only thrive and become strong if the edifice of secularism becomes the cornerstone in the everyday life of the common man."
He added that it might take a few decades for the people to grasp the full reality of the roots of Hindu-Muslim conflict which was engineered by the British as a deliberate state policy for maintaining the British hold over India.
Making a point, Justice Katju declared that the real tragedy was that while the British sowed the seeds of discords in hearts and minds of the people, after independence agent provocateurs were continuing this nefarious policy. He said that he had no hesitation to state that politicians had played a major role in spreading this poison deeper for serving their own vote bank politics.
Referring to the ongoing battle against terror in the Indian Subcontinent, Katju said that there was ample evidence to suggest that whenever incidents of terror took place in India, very frequently innocent Muslim youth were randomly picked up by the security forces. This is not only unjust but also helps the actual perpetrators of such heinous crimes from escaping the clutches of the law. He said that on every terror incident, the police was under pressure to nab the culprits at the earliest and the easiest way out was to implicate innocent persons to ease the pressure.
The PCI chief further said that there were historic evidences suggesting the thesis that India is overwhelmingly a country of immigrants with their own cultural, social and religious legacies and 90% of the Indian population comprised of people who migrated to India from different parts of the world over the centuries in search of the green pastures of this beautiful fertile country and a comfortable living. The ten percent original residents of India are the pre-Dravidian tribal who have now been pushed into the sidelines.
Katju said that the problem of communalism in India was artificial created by some mischievous elements. He appealed the youth of the country to fight against communalism. He said that intellectuals are the eyes of society.
Delivering his presidential remarks, the Vice Chancellor of Aligarh Muslim University, Retired Lt. General Zameer Uddin Shah assured that the AMU community was fully committed to the cause of promoting secularism in India and would never bow to the divisive forces of communalism and regionalism. Shah said that Muslims often fell prey to discrimination but the only way out for them to ensure that they are able to play their due role as equal citizens was to empower themselves through the weapon of education.
Shah said that if Muslim youth are not ready to wallow in ignorance and illiteracy, then there is no force which can stop their journey ahead.

Progressive Writers' Association was established in 1936 in Lucknow and was revived in 1990.
- tcn




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Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Plain Questions to Sheikh Hasina (Revised)



I hear you; the question is not whether killers of Biswajit belong to Bangladesh Chhatra League (BCL) or Shibir, the question is whether those killers will ever get punished at all. If those thugs do not get punished in the civil court, I can assure you, Awami League (AL) will get punished in the peoples' court of Bangladesh.

 

I hear your anger and frustration on the political leaderships, especially of AL, to who people of Bangladeah have higher expectation. I know - there are millions like you, who are silent now, but not for long. Election is not very far, my friend. I can predict, AL will be replaced and the leadership will be punished if just justice is not rendered to those killers.

 

Biswajit story is big, simply because the brutality of this case has been so vividly chronicled by some dedicated and fearless reporters in the field; my hat is off to those individuals for such acts of heroism. This story has created so much grief as well as fear in the hearts of the people of Bangladesh that - even parents of those killers want justice for such brutal killing of Biswajit.  This time, AL cannot just wash off their hands by assigning blame to some cadres of Shibir; that's a meager logistical issue to the people of Bangladesh; they are waiting to see if unprecedented punishment is procured for those ruthless killers or not. They want to make sure that – nothing like this can ever happen again, and no more innocent lives are lost under the machete attacks again by killers, like those thugs. 


Jiten Roy


--- On Wed, 12/19/12, Non-partisan Freethinker <npfreethinker@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Non-partisan Freethinker <npfreethinker@yahoo.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Re: Plain Questions to Sheikh Hasina (Revised)
To: "mukto-mona-owner@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona-owner@yahoogroups.com>, "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 19, 2012, 3:38 AM

 

Dear Editor Sir,
Do you have any problem to publish this? I sent it earlier, but there's not sign of treating this call. I really want to draw PM's attention.
Thanks.
Shafi

Plain Questions to Sheikh Hasina
Shafi Ahmed Chowdhury
 
I am not a professional writer nor have I any interest in the revengeful politics of our country. But I have a conscious and human mind. This is what compels me to put some questions to Madam Sheikh Hasina. I am doing it because I consider AL at least a political party and her as the daughter of Father of the Nation. I don't know whether any English paper has the courage to publish it.
 
Before I put my questions let me share one very special comment made by one of the very high-profile politicians of Awami League (AL) long ago. I once had the chance to work with AL and had to meet that politician quite often (name's put disguised). I found him jubilant all the time while talking to me. Most of the time we would talk about our liberation war and the untiring and intrepid role of Bangabandhu to make our country independent. On one occasion he told me that although I am so craving for our liberation war and life of Bangabandhu, he was pretty sure that I never had been a member of Bangladesh Chhatra League (BCL). I asked him how he had guessed it. He told me that it was because of my modesty and keen desire to see the human and humane in Bangabandhu and in the motto of our liberation war. He concluded that those who are members of BCL they never can be modest and gentle – rather they are very aggressive and savage.
 
I was listening to the Home Minister on December 11 evening on TV. He was saying that those who killed Biswajit were not members of BCL. Then why were they there to chase the BNP supporter? For argument's sake, if even Biswajit had been a member of BNP or Jamat, who had given the authority to these killers to kill him. Most pitifully Biswajit was an innocent breadwinner for his family. Trust me Madam Sheikh Hasina I am a staunch supporter of AL and motivate people to cast vote for good contenders of AL. And it's because of Bangabandhu. Before Dec 9 I didn't care about Hartal of BNP and Jamat and would go out for my office. But after the killing of Biswajit, I stopped going out of home. Who knows when BCL men go on the rampage and kill me? It would be anybody now! Maybe after killing, those killers would be called that they had already been expelled from BCL, but before they commit the killing they would very much be of BCL's.
 
Madam Sheikh Hasina please don't treat the common people ignorant and uneducated. If you do so it would go back to you and your people. There is not even an iota of doubt that the killers were under the patronage of BCL and AL, but as the whole nation or more specifically the whole world has gone against this inhuman killing, now you are throwing your protégés out of your court to save yourselves. And in fact this is the nature of the dirty politics of this country – when you need them you caress their heads, but when you don't need them you kick them in the drains.
 
The other day I was talking to one of my friends working for the police department. He told me that the way the killing had been done, there should be two decisive decisions – either capital punishment if found guilty or acquittal if not found guilty. Madam Sheikh Hasina I am sure you have already seen the footage and pictures of the sequence of Biswajit killing, what is your comment about the killers? Should they be acquitted as they are the members of BCL? The judiciary is in your hand. So you can make them order anything in AL's favour. At the end of the day you have a great "pardoning president" who can do mass pardoning any time after your orders. I know for sure there will be no judgement of this killing as long as AL is in power. Prove it I am wrong.
 
I can well remember the case of "centurion Manik" and many others. All of them got big rewards for their misdemeanours. Very recently we have seen how the gun-wielding BCL men were sitting with police people but it was told that they could not be traced out. What an irony and farce!
 
Madam Sheikh Hasina you often talk about "rule of law" and "democracy" and reiterate that you want to establish it. At least in case of Biswajit killing prove what you preach is in you practice. But remember if in this gruesome case any farce is done as before I would never vote for AL anymore and stop singing "Joy Bangla, Banglar Joy" forever.
 
[The writer is a development worker; email: npfreethinker@yahoo.com]
 




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RE: [mukto-mona] Homage to my martyr colleagues by Ajoy Roy [Blog article]



         Ajoy da deserves our thanks for putting this note together for all his colleagues and friends. Reading them again this year, in the midst of the mayhem, arson, police-beatings and murders in broad daylight the streets bu the Jamaat/shibir thugs, has meant much more to me.  It has helped me to trace back the trail and to gain a fresher and more intense insight into the minds of the criminals.
         Their original intention is still there, unabated.  They still believe it can be done -- as their Pakistani Generals commanded -- in logon ko khatom kar do --  They still think they can do it --  wipe out the whole RACE --  the textbook case of GENOCIDE -- as par the UN definition of the term!

                       Farida Majid


To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: qrahman@netscape.net
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 08:15:48 -0500
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Homage to my martyr colleagues by Ajoy Roy [Blog article]

 

We can never thank them enough for the sacrifices. If we can devote some of time to improve condition of Bangladesh, I would consider that as a sign of respect to our fallen heroes. Our heroes will remain in our hearts and minds.

Let us strive towards coming together as "One people" when we deal with national issues and make some positive impacts from wherever we are today. Let us TRY to bring unity among people and remove misunderstandings. If all of us contribute a little bit, it will make a BIG difference.
 

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Avijit Roy <charbak_bd@yahoo.com>
To: Mukto-mona YahooGroups <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Dec 15, 2012 1:35 am
Subject: [mukto-mona] Homage to my martyr colleagues by Ajoy Roy [Blog article]

 
I was born and lived in University Quarter of Dhaka University where my father used to teach. He is a colleague of famous teachers like Anwar Pasha, Dr. Anowar Pasha, Dr. G. C. Dev, Dr. Jyotirmoy Guhathakurata, Prof. Munier Choudhury, Mofazzal Haidar Choudhury, Doctor Murtaza. Each year on 14th December I have to read this essay to pay tributes to the intellectuals who were killed by Razakars and Al Badars at the very end of the Liberation War in 1971 to cripple the new-born nation intellectually. ... …

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=1558

Avijit



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