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Friday, August 19, 2016

Re: [mukto-mona] RE: {PFC-Friends} Re: Anjem Choudary guilty of inviting IS support



AR: "These people are not the illiterate Bangladeshi villagers, but the topmost bureaucrats of Bangladesh holding Secretarial and CEO positions."

I have been also saying that among the Muslims there are too many well-literate people who do not qualify to be called "educated." They are just too stupid when it comes to Islam; they are quite unlike people of other religious affiliations who are far less stupid in that respect.

SuBain

=========================


On Friday, August 19, 2016 6:11 PM, "'Khurshed Chowdhury' chowdhuryk@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Everything said about British India by Mr. Asghar is damn correct. But, Muslims learn from the Islamic text only to hate all other religions. Hence, Muslims in British India fell behind because they refused to study English the language of filthy Kaffirs. Sir Syed Ahmed was half Kaffir and he tried to save Muslims from the sure peril. But Indian Muslims did not forget to blame Hindus and  British for their own mistake. Massaallah!!!
 
KC
 
 
From: Msa40 [mailto:msa40@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 3:45 PM
To: anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com; pfc-friends@googlegroups.com
Cc: chowdhuryk@gmail.com; bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com; mahfuzur@aol.com; abul88@hotmail.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Re: Anjem Choudary guilty of inviting IS support
 
 
"But the government cannot force the immigrants to go to training/ education centres to learn English, to get skills, to embrace culture and
etiquette to succeed in the job market etc. If they do, they would be charged as running a "NANNY STATE". " Dr. Anisur Rahman.
 
Sir,
 
My English is not good and my knowledge of history and current affairs of the world is insufficient. However, if you and others in the list do
not mind, I may add the following to what you have said in your above quoted FB posting:
 
During the British rule over India, most Muslims refused to learn English and preferred Arabic, Urdu and Persian to it. This refusal originated
from their belief that English was the language of the Kafir and that learning it was a great sin. This belief was bolstered by the preaching of
their preachers in whom they had reposed all of their faith - a situation that still persists in most of the Muslims!
 
Additionally, they believed that Arabic was the language of Allah and Urdu and Persian the languages of their Muslim rulers. Memorizing
what is written in the Quran -they believed - brought them immense sawab that would secure them berths in heaven in their next life, while
learning Urdu and Persian would keep them close to their past rulers!
 
Many Hindus, on the other hand, learned English and got jobs in the government and private institutions run by the English speaking people.
Consequently, they prospered and were able to impart higher education through English medium to their children. Muslims denied these
opportunities to themselves and to their children and blamed the English rulers for their economic and social plights - a situation that still exists
among many of the Indian Muslims!
 
Sir Syed Ahmad recognized this problem and he established a school in Aligarh where the medium of education was English. Muslims promptly
labeled him a Kafir. He had to flee from India to save his life. His school is now known as the Muslim Aligarh University!
 
In those days, even wearing a neck-tie was deemed to be a great sin by the Muslims!!
 
 
-Mohammad Asghar
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com>
To: pfc-friends <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Msa40 <msa40@aol.com>; chowdhuryk <chowdhuryk@gmail.com>; bangladesh-progressives <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>; mahfuzur <mahfuzur@aol.com>; abul88 <abul88@hotmail.com>; mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Aug 18, 2016 7:01 am
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Re: Anjem Choudary guilty of inviting IS support
It so happens that I am exchanging views in the FB on this very issue at the moment. My FB friend posted a topic from the BBC News webpage that "Ethnic minorities face 'entrenched' racial inequality" in Britain. 
My answer to this was as follows:
It is a chicken and egg situation. The Pakistani/ Ethiopian/ Somali/ Bangladeshi and so forth immigrants come to this country (or any other country in the West) and very soon get sucked into their respective ghettos. They are happy staying there and follow the well trodden path - go to the mosques and keep praying for God's handouts and, of course, blame the British government for racial discrimination. They don't make efforts to break out of the cocoon and improve their lots. Whether it is their economic deprivation that leads them to blind religious alley or the religious blindness stops them from embracing the opportunities in life is debatable. It may be that one feeds into another and they go down to the bottom of the pit. But notice that the Jews previously and the Indians now are not like the Muslim immigrants. They embrace the new culture and flourish. It is the Muslim immigrants or vast majority of them (from whichever country they may be) are problematic.
 
My FB friend replied:
 I remember in the sixties there were arguments about lack of action on the part of the UK government to absorb new immigrants into mainstream society. In some European countries attempts were made to push new immigrants for integration. I agree bulk of the responsibility for integration falls on the immigrants, but the government must provide adequate support system. There should be orientation for new immigration. They should be told right at the beginning that they must adapt to the culture of the country or go back where they came from. 
 
My response to this was:
Yes, the government can create a favourable environment for the immigrants to succeed. But the government cannot force the immigrants to go to training/ education centres to learn English, to get skills, to embrace culture and etiquette to succeed in the job market etc. If they do, they would be charged as running a "NANNY STATE". It is the responsibility of the immigrants to go out and seek out the opportunities - in skills, training, education etc; as much as they seek out all types of social security, child allowance, housing benefits etc. 
 
If you want to contribute to this debate you are welcome. Alternatively you can join as FB friends.
 
- AR 
 
On Thursday, 18 August 2016, 14:31, Shah DeEldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Thank you for providing us a clearer picture of UK. It looks like all is not lost yet. It is rather sad to see that these lowlifes love to  migrate to other countries but would love create the very same ghettos as they have had in their home countries. What can a civil society do? Start a massive affirmative action to enlighten these people, who are hellbent to oppose the progress and system?
This is like a total self defeating act with no goal and honor.  
 
On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 4:47 AM, ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com> wrote:
I do agree with the general sentiments expressed by MA. But I do positively disagree with him when he says that there are areas in Britain where non-Muslims are banned from going and Pakistani vigilantes patrol the streets to enforce that ban. I have been living in the UK for over 46 years now and I travelled up and down the country quite extensively. I can assure MA that there is NO SUCH PLACE in the UK. If he can cite just one such place, I will bring that up with the relevant authorities and any such presumed "vigilante groups" will be brought to an end. 
 
There are of course Pakistani ghettos, as much as there are Bangladeshi ghettos, Somalian ghettos etc. Some of those areas (no more than one or two streets) are so depressing and deprived that people would not like to go. But anybody has the right to go and nobody can prevent others from going. In other words, there are no "no-go" areas in Britain. There were some "no-go" areas in Brussels, but the authorities are dismantling those areas.
 
Yes, there are Pakistani ghettos. Pakistanis live there as if they are living in Pakistan, going to the mosques are their preoccupation and once a week they go to collect their unemployment benefits. They live in, what I call, "self generated apartheid enclaves". If they want to live in seclusion as the underclass of the society, hated and despised by civilised people, let them live there. But if someone wants to go that area, no Pakistani or any other person has the right to stop that. That is the bottom line.
 
- AR   
 
On Wednesday, 17 August 2016, 17:06, Msa40 <msa40@aol.com> wrote:
 
 
 
"If Brits are pushed to a corner in their own turf, mobs and vigilantes may take the laws in their own hands."
 
It is a possibility, but we must remember that Britain and other Western Nations are in the grip of a "politically correct syndrome" and the law
enforcers would do everything possible to protect the Muslims. We must also remember that there are areas in Britain where non-Muslims
are forbidden from going and Muslim vigilantes patrol the streets to ensure the ban. There is a city in Britain where Pakistanis live as if they
are living in Pakistan!
 
Sadiq Khan was elected not by the Muslims alone. He is in office due to non-Muslims, who are still in majority in London. And this happened
despite the fact that London had suffered a few terrorist attacks before he became its Mayor!
 
I think until the mainstream media in England and elsewhere start reporting the plight of the local non-Muslim citizens, British people are not
likely to wake up from their slumber into which they have been put by their leaders. Tony Blair played a major role in putting his people into
a long sleep!
 
West needs leaders who can speak the truth and not be afraid to lose in election. Until this happens, West would continue to suffer at the
hands of the terrorists and the severity of their sufferings would multiply with the passage of time!!
 
 
-MA
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Shah DeEldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com>
To: Khurshed Chowdhury <chowdhuryk@gmail.com>
Cc: Msa40 <msa40@aol.com>; mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>; pfc-friends <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com> ; bangladesh-progressives googlegroups <bangladesh-progressives@ googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Aug 17, 2016 6:13 am
Subject: Re: Anjem Choudary guilty of inviting IS support
With the same breath, I can also say that the patience is running very thin when these people are openly propagating hatred and destruction of the west and its civil institutions. If Brits are pushed to a corner in their own turf, mobs and vigilantes may take the laws in their own hands. So, deport or no deport, Brits had it enough with these scoundrels. If they face another attack from these lunatics, all bets would be off. I bet Sadiq Khan is pretty nervous about the next one if I am not mistaken. 
 
On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Khurshed Chowdhury <chowdhuryk@gmail.com> wrote:
Very well said by Mr. Asghar. Britain will not deport these Jihadists for fear of violating their ridiculous human rights BS. They will rather keep these Islamists in their prison and will supply them milk and honey so that—these jihadists can perform their duties of serving Islam better! Massaallah!!!
 
 
KC
 
From: msa40@aol.com [mailto:msa40@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 2:31 PM
To: Shah DeEldar; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; pfc-friends@googlegroups.com; bangladesh-progressives googlegroups
Cc: Khurshed Chowdhury
Subject: Re: Anjem Choudary guilty of inviting IS support
 
Britain may not deport them anywhere citing fear of their execution, instead it will put them in jail so that they can influence its inmates at the cost of the tax payers money!!
 
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
 
------ Original message------
From: Shah DeEldar
Date : Tue, Aug 16, 2016 9:59 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; pfc-friends@googlegroups.com; bangladesh-progressives googlegroups;
Cc: Msa40;Khurshed Chowdhury;
Subject:Anjem Choudary guilty of inviting IS support
 
It is about time to have gloves off. These characters do not belong to the Western society. Deport him to land of pure and honey! Nobody will miss such POS!
 
 
 
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[mukto-mona] ‘বঙ্গবন্ধু হত্যাকাণ্ডের নেপথ্যে ছিলেন হেনরী কিসিঞ্জার’



'বঙ্গবন্ধু হত্যাকাণ্ডের নেপথ্যে ছিলেন হেনরী কিসিঞ্জার'

১৯ আগস্ট,২০১৬

নিজস্ব প্রতিনিধি

আরটিএনএন

নোয়াখালী: অর্থনীতিবিদ ড. আবুল বারকাত বলেছেন, 'বঙ্গবন্ধু হত্যাকাণ্ডে নেপথ্য ভূমিকায় ছিলেন আমেরিকার সাবেক পররাষ্ট্রমন্ত্রী হেনরী কিসিঞ্জার।' 


আবুল বারকাত বলেন, ১৯৭৩ সালে থেকে বঙ্গবন্ধু সরকারকে উৎখাত ও বঙ্গবন্ধুকে হত্যার ষড়যন্ত্র চলেতে থাকে। এর পর ১৯৭৫ সালে ১৫ আগস্ট বঙ্গবন্ধুকে হত্যা করার পর খুনি মোস্তাকের অবৈধ সরকারকে হেনরী কিসিঞ্জার স্বীকৃতি দেয়। 


তিনি বলেন, আওয়ামী লীগ আওয়ামী লীগকে ঘুষ দিবে না, নিবে না, অথচ জঙ্গিত্ব প্রতিষ্ঠার জন্য তাদের লোকজন ঘুষ দিয়ে সহযোগিতা করেন। বাংলাদেশের রাজনীতি আজ দু'ধারায় বিভক্ত। একটি মুক্তিযোদ্ধার সপক্ষে অণ্যটি মুক্তিযোদ্ধা বিরোধী।


শুক্রবার নোয়াখালীর চৌমুহনী পাবলিক হলে আয়োজিত 'বাংলাদেশে মৌলবাদ ও মৌলবাদী জঙ্গিত্বের রাজনৈতিক অর্থনীতি' শীর্ষক আলোচনা সভায় প্রধান অতিথির বক্তব্যে তিনি এ সব কথা বলেন।


এতে সভাপতিত্ব করেন বাংলাদেশ অর্থনীতি সমিতি আঞ্চলিক সেমিনার -২০১৬ সংঘটনের সভপতি ড. আশ্ররাফ উদ্দিন চৌধুরী।


অনুষ্ঠানে আরো উপস্থিত ছিলেন- অর্থনীতি সমিতির সাধারণ সম্পাদক ড. জামাল উদ্দিন, চৌমুহনী পৌর মেয়র আক্তার হোসেন ফয়সল, সাবেক উপজেলা চেয়ারম্যার ভিপি মোহাম্মদ উল্যা, মুক্তিযোদ্ধা গোলাম মোস্তফা ভূঁইয়া, বাংলাদেশের শ্রেষ্ঠ চেয়ারম্যান আবদুল জলিল প্রমুখ।


                               
                                                     
একাত্তরের ১৫ আগস্ট বঙ্গবন্ধুকে সপরিবারে হত্যার পূর্বে মার্কিন পররাষ্ট্রমন্ত্রী ড. হেনরী কিসিঞ্জারের বাংলাদেশ সফর সেই সময়ের প্রেক্ষাপটে ছিল নানা দিক থেকে তাৎপর্যপূর্ণ। এর আগে পাকিস্তানের প্রধানমন্ত্রী জুলফিকার আলী ভুট্টোও বাংলাদেশে তিন দিনের সফরে আসেন। মার্কিন পররাষ্ট্রমন্ত্রী হেনরী কিসিঞ্জার ১৯৭৪ সDetails


      
       




"হেনরি কিসিঞ্জার" এক পাপিষ্ঠ ও এক রহস্যের নাম
   

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Posted by: "Jamal G. Khan" <M.JamalGhaus@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

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****************************************************

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} Re: Anjem Choudary guilty of inviting IS support



I have to disagree with KC on what he calls "Islamic Syndrome" or "Islamic Virus". In fact, it is the "Virus of the Mind" regardless of religion (which Richard Dawkins calls it 'meme') which when it gets into the mind (read brain), it remains there. In fact, MA has very rightly pointed out that childhood is the best (or worst) time to infect brain with this virus. Once such religious virus gets there, it is very difficult to eradicate it. Islam reinforces it five times a day and in Ramadan month throughout the whole month. So from Muslim minds (or more accurately, devout Muslim minds) it is well-nigh impossible to eradicate. 

Let me give you an amusing story. When I was in Class IX (in the late 50's), one day my mum came to tell me (probably hoping to persuade me to become a Hafez) that none of her children had become a "real person" (she meant 'manush'). I asked her what did she mean by that? 
She told me, "You all learn English. Can you speak with God?" 
I said, "Why not? Does not God speak English?". 
She said, "No, God only speaks Arabic." 
Then I said, "Instead of all of us learning Arabic, why don't you ask God to take the trouble to learn English?" 
My mum was literally thunder struck. She immediately started praying to God, begging his forgiveness for my disrespect to him. She said, I would be burnt alive, I would not have any education whatsoever, I would be a landless farmer etc.
I was totally shocked by her reaction. I stood there for a while as she started reciting Quranic verses furiously to save me from God's wrath. Then I said, "Mum, I am going out to play football and then ran off" leaving my mum to sort out the problem with God.  

This is what virus can do to human mind. Every individual is good at heart, but the mind can be badly contaminated by religion. That is the problem.

- AR


On Friday, 19 August 2016, 19:55, Khurshed Chowdhury <chowdhuryk@gmail.com> wrote:


Mr. MA,
 
Entire thing you said below is known as: "Islamic Syndrome"—an age old disease caused by Islamic virus. This virus infects Muslims only. Even some one converted (like Barak Hussein Obama) also can get infected by this Islamic virus. That is why Obama cannot utter 'Islamic terrorism' or radical Islam etc. And, very pecuiliarly, when any terrorism happened in America or anywhere in the western world—Obama usually returned to the White House and called some Muslim Brother Hood Hypocrites and some Members of CAIR to give them good news that they will be Okay! This is all because of heavy strength of Islamic virus. Massaallah!!!
 
KC
 
 
From: Msa40 [mailto:msa40@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 12:00 PM
To: shahdeeldar@gmail.com; bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com
Cc: anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com; chowdhuryk@gmail.com; pfc-friends@googlegroups.com; mahfuzur@aol.com; abul88@hotmail.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Re: Anjem Choudary guilty of inviting IS support
 
 
 
"There may be some truth in what you say." Dr. Anisur Rahman.
 
Some of my in-laws still live in India. My wife and I have visited them quite often. We have seen that when Pakistani and India were playing their cricket matches, Muslims in their neighborhood fasted, and continuously prayed to Allah for the Pakistan team's success against India. When the Pakistani team won, they thanked Allah and distributed sweetmeat among their Muslims neighbors.
 
But when the Indian team won, they beat their chests (called maatam), complained to Allah why He made it successful against the Muslims!
 
We have seen our own relatives fighting for Pakistan and defending it in family discussions. When asked why they don't go to Pakistan to 
live there forever, nobody appeared willing to do so. They liked what India offers them and they enjoy living here, but they hated it for winning 
against Pakistan!
 
To me, it is a psychological matter. They believe Pakistan represents Islam and, therefore, it is their duty to stand for and defend Pakistan even though they won't ever like to live in this Islamic paradise!
 
I lived my childhood in Calcutta, and went to a school which had the word "Islamia" in its name. Here, the management closed the school's main gate which was very tall and we children saluted the Pakistani flag and sang its anthem before going to our classes. This used to happen in the mid 1950s. It is a whole truth and an absolute truth!
 
During my visits to Jakarta, Indonesia, I heard people telling their young kids that the people of Saudi Arabia are a blessed people and that they are closer to Allah than they were. This lesson is imparted to young children in Madrassas and they grow up with this lesson imprinted on their
minds. And as you know, most of what we learned from our parents when we were growing up, we can hardly shake off from our memory in our later days! It lingers on in our minds until our death!!
 
Remember Pres. Obama bowing down before the King of Saudi Arabia whose power base lies in the American hands?
 
President Obama lived his early days in Indonesia!!
 
 
-MA
 
 
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Shah DeEldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com>
To: bangladesh-progressives googlegroups <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Msa40 <msa40@aol.com>; ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com>; chowdhuryk <chowdhuryk@gmail.com>; pfc-friends <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com>; mahfuzur <mahfuzur@aol.com>; abul88 <abul88@hotmail.com>; mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Aug 19, 2016 6:40 am
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Re: Anjem Choudary guilty of inviting IS support
Many of our people have basically no self respect and dignity. That is why we are always ready to adopt a primitive culture and tradition instead of sticking to our thousand years of civilization and enriching it to further. How can we follow a foreign Bedouin culture and language and make them better? Why should that be our burden to prove ourselves as worthy Muslims? A good Muslim can't be a good evolutionary biologist/scientist because these two positions are mutually exclusive?
With critical thing gone through the window, I see a grim picture of monkeys following monkeys. Not sure to what end and benefits?
 
On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 5:19 AM, ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com> wrote:
Very funny, MA. There may be some truth in what you say. 
 
But my question is, why do Bangladeshis (as well as Pakistanis / Afghans) like Middle Eastern people (liars, exploiters, sex maniacs etc) so much? They call Bangladeshis "miskins" (beggars), kick them at will, treat them like dogs and still the Bangladeshis like to obey them, treat them as masters and feel happy to be their slaves. Why, oh why? 
 
As a nuclear scientist of high repute and an author of graduate text books, I have solved many a problem in science and technology. But on this issue, I am totally clueless and bowled out.
 
- AR
 
On Friday, 19 August 2016, 2:26, Msa40 <msa40@aol.com> wrote:
 
 
Some time ago, I asked one Indian Sikh retired Brigadier General: why Indians hate British so much but hardly ever criticize the Moghuls?
 
He asked me how many wives did Emperor Akbar have? I could not answer. He told me:
 
Akbar had over 5,000 wives from almost all over India and how many wives did the English rulers have?
 
None. So Mughals were the sons-in-law of the Indians and the English rulers were not; they did no equip themselves with this honor. So who do
you think the Indians should have their love and affection for?
 
He made me speechless!!
 
-MA
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Khurshed Chowdhury <chowdhuryk@gmail.com>
To: 'Msa40' <msa40@aol.com>; anisur.rahman1 <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com>; pfc-friends <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com>
Cc: bangladesh-progressives <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>; mahfuzur <mahfuzur@aol.com>; abul88 <abul88@hotmail.com>; mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Aug 18, 2016 5:11 pm
Subject: RE: {PFC-Friends} Re: Anjem Choudary guilty of inviting IS support
Everything said about British India by Mr. Asghar is damn correct. But, Muslims learn from the Islamic text only to hate all other religions. Hence, Muslims in British India fell behind because they refused to study English the language of filthy Kaffirs. Sir Syed Ahmed was half Kaffir and he tried to save Muslims from the sure peril. But Indian Muslims did not forget to blame Hindus and  British for their own mistake. Massaallah!!!
 
KC
 
 
From: Msa40 [mailto:msa40@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 3:45 PM
To: anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com; pfc-friends@googlegroups.com
Cc: chowdhuryk@gmail.com; bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com; mahfuzur@aol.com; abul88@hotmail.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Re: Anjem Choudary guilty of inviting IS support
 
 
"But the government cannot force the immigrants to go to training/ education centres to learn English, to get skills, to embrace culture and
etiquette to succeed in the job market etc. If they do, they would be charged as running a "NANNY STATE". " Dr. Anisur Rahman.
 
Sir,
 
My English is not good and my knowledge of history and current affairs of the world is insufficient. However, if you and others in the list do
not mind, I may add the following to what you have said in your above quoted FB posting:
 
During the British rule over India, most Muslims refused to learn English and preferred Arabic, Urdu and Persian to it. This refusal originated
from their belief that English was the language of the Kafir and that learning it was a great sin. This belief was bolstered by the preaching of
their preachers in whom they had reposed all of their faith - a situation that still persists in most of the Muslims!
 
Additionally, they believed that Arabic was the language of Allah and Urdu and Persian the languages of their Muslim rulers. Memorizing
what is written in the Quran -they believed - brought them immense sawab that would secure them berths in heaven in their next life, while
learning Urdu and Persian would keep them close to their past rulers!
 
Many Hindus, on the other hand, learned English and got jobs in the government and private institutions run by the English speaking people.
Consequently, they prospered and were able to impart higher education through English medium to their children. Muslims denied these
opportunities to themselves and to their children and blamed the English rulers for their economic and social plights - a situation that still exists
among many of the Indian Muslims!
 
Sir Syed Ahmad recognized this problem and he established a school in Aligarh where the medium of education was English. Muslims promptly
labeled him a Kafir. He had to flee from India to save his life. His school is now known as the Muslim Aligarh University!
 
In those days, even wearing a neck-tie was deemed to be a great sin by the Muslims!!
 
 
-Mohammad Asghar
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com>
To: pfc-friends <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Msa40 <msa40@aol.com>; chowdhuryk <chowdhuryk@gmail.com>; bangladesh-progressives <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>; mahfuzur <mahfuzur@aol.com>; abul88 <abul88@hotmail.com>; mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Aug 18, 2016 7:01 am
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} Re: Anjem Choudary guilty of inviting IS support
It so happens that I am exchanging views in the FB on this very issue at the moment. My FB friend posted a topic from the BBC News webpage that "Ethnic minorities face 'entrenched' racial inequality" in Britain. 
My answer to this was as follows:
It is a chicken and egg situation. The Pakistani/ Ethiopian/ Somali/ Bangladeshi and so forth immigrants come to this country (or any other country in the West) and very soon get sucked into their respective ghettos. They are happy staying there and follow the well trodden path - go to the mosques and keep praying for God's handouts and, of course, blame the British government for racial discrimination. They don't make efforts to break out of the cocoon and improve their lots. Whether it is their economic deprivation that leads them to blind religious alley or the religious blindness stops them from embracing the opportunities in life is debatable. It may be that one feeds into another and they go down to the bottom of the pit. But notice that the Jews previously and the Indians now are not like the Muslim immigrants. They embrace the new culture and flourish. It is the Muslim immigrants or vast majority of them (from whichever country they may be) are problematic.
 
My FB friend replied:
 I remember in the sixties there were arguments about lack of action on the part of the UK government to absorb new immigrants into mainstream society. In some European countries attempts were made to push new immigrants for integration. I agree bulk of the responsibility for integration falls on the immigrants, but the government must provide adequate support system. There should be orientation for new immigration. They should be told right at the beginning that they must adapt to the culture of the country or go back where they came from. 
 
My response to this was:
Yes, the government can create a favourable environment for the immigrants to succeed. But the government cannot force the immigrants to go to training/ education centres to learn English, to get skills, to embrace culture and etiquette to succeed in the job market etc. If they do, they would be charged as running a "NANNY STATE". It is the responsibility of the immigrants to go out and seek out the opportunities - in skills, training, education etc; as much as they seek out all types of social security, child allowance, housing benefits etc. 
 
If you want to contribute to this debate you are welcome. Alternatively you can join as FB friends.
 
- AR 
 
On Thursday, 18 August 2016, 14:31, Shah DeEldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Thank you for providing us a clearer picture of UK. It looks like all is not lost yet. It is rather sad to see that these lowlifes love to  migrate to other countries but would love create the very same ghettos as they have had in their home countries. What can a civil society do? Start a massive affirmative action to enlighten these people, who are hellbent to oppose the progress and system?
This is like a total self defeating act with no goal and honor.  
 
On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 4:47 AM, ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com> wrote:
I do agree with the general sentiments expressed by MA. But I do positively disagree with him when he says that there are areas in Britain where non-Muslims are banned from going and Pakistani vigilantes patrol the streets to enforce that ban. I have been living in the UK for over 46 years now and I travelled up and down the country quite extensively. I can assure MA that there is NO SUCH PLACE in the UK. If he can cite just one such place, I will bring that up with the relevant authorities and any such presumed "vigilante groups" will be brought to an end. 
 
There are of course Pakistani ghettos, as much as there are Bangladeshi ghettos, Somalian ghettos etc. Some of those areas (no more than one or two streets) are so depressing and deprived that people would not like to go. But anybody has the right to go and nobody can prevent others from going. In other words, there are no "no-go" areas in Britain. There were some "no-go" areas in Brussels, but the authorities are dismantling those areas.
 
Yes, there are Pakistani ghettos. Pakistanis live there as if they are living in Pakistan, going to the mosques are their preoccupation and once a week they go to collect their unemployment benefits. They live in, what I call, "self generated apartheid enclaves". If they want to live in seclusion as the underclass of the society, hated and despised by civilised people, let them live there. But if someone wants to go that area, no Pakistani or any other person has the right to stop that. That is the bottom line.
 
- AR   
 
On Wednesday, 17 August 2016, 17:06, Msa40 <msa40@aol.com> wrote:
 
 
 
"If Brits are pushed to a corner in their own turf, mobs and vigilantes may take the laws in their own hands."
 
It is a possibility, but we must remember that Britain and other Western Nations are in the grip of a "politically correct syndrome" and the law
enforcers would do everything possible to protect the Muslims. We must also remember that there are areas in Britain where non-Muslims
are forbidden from going and Muslim vigilantes patrol the streets to ensure the ban. There is a city in Britain where Pakistanis live as if they
are living in Pakistan!
 
Sadiq Khan was elected not by the Muslims alone. He is in office due to non-Muslims, who are still in majority in London. And this happened
despite the fact that London had suffered a few terrorist attacks before he became its Mayor!
 
I think until the mainstream media in England and elsewhere start reporting the plight of the local non-Muslim citizens, British people are not
likely to wake up from their slumber into which they have been put by their leaders. Tony Blair played a major role in putting his people into
a long sleep!
 
West needs leaders who can speak the truth and not be afraid to lose in election. Until this happens, West would continue to suffer at the
hands of the terrorists and the severity of their sufferings would multiply with the passage of time!!
 
 
-MA
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Shah DeEldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com>
To: Khurshed Chowdhury <chowdhuryk@gmail.com>
Cc: Msa40 <msa40@aol.com>; mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>; pfc-friends <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com> ; bangladesh-progressives googlegroups <bangladesh-progressives@ googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Aug 17, 2016 6:13 am
Subject: Re: Anjem Choudary guilty of inviting IS support
With the same breath, I can also say that the patience is running very thin when these people are openly propagating hatred and destruction of the west and its civil institutions. If Brits are pushed to a corner in their own turf, mobs and vigilantes may take the laws in their own hands. So, deport or no deport, Brits had it enough with these scoundrels. If they face another attack from these lunatics, all bets would be off. I bet Sadiq Khan is pretty nervous about the next one if I am not mistaken. 
 
On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Khurshed Chowdhury <chowdhuryk@gmail.com> wrote:
Very well said by Mr. Asghar. Britain will not deport these Jihadists for fear of violating their ridiculous human rights BS. They will rather keep these Islamists in their prison and will supply them milk and honey so that—these jihadists can perform their duties of serving Islam better! Massaallah!!!
 
 
KC
 
From: msa40@aol.com [mailto:msa40@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 2:31 PM
To: Shah DeEldar; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; pfc-friends@googlegroups.com; bangladesh-progressives googlegroups
Cc: Khurshed Chowdhury
Subject: Re: Anjem Choudary guilty of inviting IS support
 
Britain may not deport them anywhere citing fear of their execution, instead it will put them in jail so that they can influence its inmates at the cost of the tax payers money!!
 
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
 
------ Original message------
From: Shah DeEldar
Date : Tue, Aug 16, 2016 9:59 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; pfc-friends@googlegroups.com; bangladesh-progressives googlegroups;
Cc: Msa40;Khurshed Chowdhury;
Subject:Anjem Choudary guilty of inviting IS support
 
It is about time to have gloves off. These characters do not belong to the Western society. Deport him to land of pure and honey! Nobody will miss such POS!
 
 
 
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