Banner Advertiser

Saturday, June 27, 2015

[mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} Bande Mataram includes Muslims as part of Bangla Ma's Sontan (Children of Mother Bangla)



Hello?!  When did I say that Bande Matram was anti-Muslim?  Mr. Bain, you really have a problem with forgetting the context and what was actually said, don't you.  Let me remind you.  

You had mentioned that when Hindus heard chants of Allahu Akbar they knew that Muslims were coming to kill them.  (I am sure you are aware that Allahu Akbar means God is Great, it says nothing whatsoever about killing Hindus or anyone, and is not intended to be used that way, though the ISIS types routinely murder in God's name).

I pointed out to you that there were chants that Hindus used as well which struck fear in Muslims and Bande Matram was the Hindu chant that was used during riots too.  I never said that Bande Matram incited Hindus to kill Muslims so I don't know why you are putting words into my mouth.  

Please take a deep breath, the oxygen may help with greater comprehension :).

On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 9:54 AM, 'Sukhamaya Bain' via PFC-Friends <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Bande Mataram includes Muslims as part of Bangla Ma's Sontan (Children of Mother Bangla) - so says Farida Majid in a post June 26, 2015, in the Mukto-Mona forum. Let me quote her, "I had posted a long, well-researched, linguistically analyzed article on Bankim's Bande Mataram, supporting the claim that the text of the song had nothing against Muslims, and in fact INCLUDES Muslims (as arithmetical half) as part of Bangla Ma's 'sontan'."
 
She also complained that Dr. Kamal Das, Dr. Jiten Roy and I did not remember her article. Let me say sorry to her for not remembering her article; I am actually not very good at remembering anything.
 
However, let me advise her that the three gentlemen's name she mentioned know that Bande Mataram is not a hate-song against the Muslims. I personally would not propose it in its entirety to be the national anthem of a pluralistic India. For that purpose, I would expunge the fourth and fifth stanzas, where Hindu deities and temples are invoked. As I wrote before, I can understand that many Muslims would not like this song as the national anthem; but this song certainly was not used for actually hating or hurting the Muslims.
 
The point is not really if the above three persons remember Ms. Majid's article. Ms. Majid needs to educate people like Ali Shaheen and the worse creatures in the forums and elsewhere.
 
BTW: Ms. Majid also did not like my statement that "she masquerades as a rational human being, but in reality her mind is subservient to the prescriptions of her religion, which obviously she cannot hide. I feel pity for her kind of people who, in spite of a good deal of academic accomplishment in humanities/sciences, remain captive to the stupidity and hatred of their religions."
 
Let me challenge Ms. Majid to prove me wrong. Ms. Majid, could you cite some verses in the Quran that should be actually discarded/disregarded? You need to tell the Muslims unequivocally, "these verses in the Quran are wrong; do not follow them."
 
Again, let me be clear that irrespective of what verses of the Quran are wrong and need to be discarded/disregarded, I wish nothing but the best for the Muslims. (That obviously means that I want them to live in an environment where they and the non-Muslims would treat each other with justice, dignity, human rights, citizenship rights, etc. - all the good things that all humans wish for themselves).
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
====================

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PFC-Friends" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pfc-friends+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



__._,_.___

Posted by: Ali Shaheen <alishaheen2010@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Bande Mataram includes Muslims as part of Bangla Ma's Sontan (Children of Mother Bangla)



Bande Mataram was indeed the war cry, like Joy Bangla, during the Swadeshi Movement, but only in Bengal not elsewhere in India.

On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 10:36 PM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Ali Saheen's comments appear to be childish to me. It seems like she is just arguing without substance. She needs linguistic abilities and some research about the pretexts of the song, as Farida Majid mentioned, to understand Bande Mataram. Without which, it will be misunderstood, as many people do.
Anyway, this is what I found about Bande Mataram:
_____________________________________

This is the summary of a lecture delivered by Sri Aurobindoin the Grand Square of the National School, Amraoti, Berar, on January 29, 1908. The meeting commenced with the singing of Bande Mataram
Bande Mataram – a mantra with hidden meaning
Song in Bengali of Bankim Chandra Chatterjee
translation by Sri Aurobindo (November 20, 1909)
Mother, I bow to thee!
Rich with thy hurrying streams,
Bright with thy orchard gleams,
Cool with thy winds of delight,
Dark fields waving, Mother of might,
Mother free.
Glory of moonlight dreams
Over thy branches and lordly streams,
Clad in thy blossoming trees,
Mother, giver of ease,
Laughing low and sweet!
Mother, I kiss thy feet,
Speaker sweet and low!
Mother, to thee I bow.
Who hath said thou art weak in thy lands,
When the swords flash out in twice seventy million hands
And seventy millions voices roar
Thy dreadful name from shore to shore?
With many strengths who art mighty and stored,
To thee I call, Mother and Lord!
Thou who savest, arise and save!
To her I cry who ever her foemen drave
Back from plain and sea
And shook herself free.
Thou art wisdom, thou art law,
Thou our heart, our soul, our breath,
Thou the love divine, the awe
In our hearts that conquers death.
Thine the strength that nerves the arm,
Thine the beauty, thine the charm.
Every image made divine
In our temples is but thine.
Thou art Durga, Lady and Queen,
With her hands that strike and her swords of sheen,
Thou art Lakshmi lotus-throned,
Pure and perfect without peer,
Mother, lend thine ear.
Rich with thy hurrying streams,
Bright with thy orchard gleams,
Dark of hue, O candid-fair
In thy soul, with jewelled hair
And thy glorious smile divine,
Loveliest of all earthly lands,
Showering wealth from well-stored hands!
Mother, mother mine!
Mother sweet, I bow to thee,
Mother great and free.
Sri Aurobindo said that he was exceedingly pleased to know that the song had become so popular in all parts of India and that it was being so repeatedly sung. He said that he would make this national anthem the subject of his speech.
The song, he said, was not only a national anthem to be looked on as the European nations look upon their own, but one replete with mighty power, being a sacred mantra, revealed to us by the author of "Ananda Math", who might be called an inspired Rishi. He described the manner in which the mantra had been revealed to Bankim Chandra, probably by a Sannyasi under whose teaching he was. He said that the mantra was not an invention, but a revivification of the old mantra which had become extinct, so to speak, by the treachery of one Navakishan. The mantra of Bankim Chandra was not appreciated in his own day, and he predicted that there would come a time when the whole of India would resound with the singing of the song, and the word of the prophet was miraculously fulfilled.
The meaning of the song was not understood then because there was no patriotism except such as consisted in making India the shadow of England and other countries which dazzled the sight of the sons of this our Motherland with their glory and opulence. The so-called patriots of that time might have been the well-wishers of India but not men who loved her. One who loved his mother never looked to her defects, never disregarded her as an ignorant, superstitious, degraded and decrepit woman. 
The speaker then unfolded the meaning of the song. As with the individual, so with the nation, there were three bodies or koshas, the sth's'a and k'na shariras. In this way the speaker went on clearing up the hidden meaning of the song. The manner in which he treated of love and devotion was exceedingly touching and the audience sat before him like dumb statues, not knowing where they were or whether they were listening to a prophet revealing to them the higher mysteries of life.
He then concluded with a most pathetic appeal to true patriotism and exhorted the audience to love the Motherland and sacrifice everything to bring about her salvation.
First published in "Bande Mataram", January 29, 1908

 

From: "Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 8:54 AM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Bande Mataram includes Muslims as part of Bangla Ma's Sontan (Children of Mother Bangla)

 
Bande Mataram includes Muslims as part of Bangla Ma's Sontan (Children of Mother Bangla) - so says Farida Majid in a post June 26, 2015, in the Mukto-Mona forum. Let me quote her, "I had posted a long, well-researched, linguistically analyzed article on Bankim's Bande Mataram, supporting the claim that the text of the song had nothing against Muslims, and in fact INCLUDES Muslims (as arithmetical half) as part of Bangla Ma's 'sontan'."
 
She also complained that Dr. Kamal Das, Dr. Jiten Roy and I did not remember her article. Let me say sorry to her for not remembering her article; I am actually not very good at remembering anything.
 
However, let me advise her that the three gentlemen's name she mentioned know that Bande Mataram is not a hate-song against the Muslims. I personally would not propose it in its entirety to be the national anthem of a pluralistic India. For that purpose, I would expunge the fourth and fifth stanzas, where Hindu deities and temples are invoked. As I wrote before, I can understand that many Muslims would not like this song as the national anthem; but this song certainly was not used for actually hating or hurting the Muslims.
 
The point is not really if the above three persons remember Ms. Majid's article. Ms. Majid needs to educate people like Ali Shaheen and the worse creatures in the forums and elsewhere.
 
BTW: Ms. Majid also did not like my statement that "she masquerades as a rational human being, but in reality her mind is subservient to the prescriptions of her religion, which obviously she cannot hide. I feel pity for her kind of people who, in spite of a good deal of academic accomplishment in humanities/sciences, remain captive to the stupidity and hatred of their religions."
 
Let me challenge Ms. Majid to prove me wrong. Ms. Majid, could you cite some verses in the Quran that should be actually discarded/disregarded? You need to tell the Muslims unequivocally, "these verses in the Quran are wrong; do not follow them."
 
Again, let me be clear that irrespective of what verses of the Quran are wrong and need to be discarded/disregarded, I wish nothing but the best for the Muslims. (That obviously means that I want them to live in an environment where they and the non-Muslims would treat each other with justice, dignity, human rights, citizenship rights, etc. - all the good things that all humans wish for themselves).
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
====================





__._,_.___

Posted by: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Bande Mataram includes Muslims as part of Bangla Ma's Sontan (Children of Mother Bangla)



Bande Mataram had nothing against Muslims, but the whole novel, Anandamath had. Ms. Majid might call herself a researcher, but not many else in this forum do. She has some preconceived opinion that she airs whenever she needs to expose her ignorance. 

On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 10:36 PM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Ali Saheen's comments appear to be childish to me. It seems like she is just arguing without substance. She needs linguistic abilities and some research about the pretexts of the song, as Farida Majid mentioned, to understand Bande Mataram. Without which, it will be misunderstood, as many people do.
Anyway, this is what I found about Bande Mataram:
_____________________________________

This is the summary of a lecture delivered by Sri Aurobindoin the Grand Square of the National School, Amraoti, Berar, on January 29, 1908. The meeting commenced with the singing of Bande Mataram
Bande Mataram – a mantra with hidden meaning
Song in Bengali of Bankim Chandra Chatterjee
translation by Sri Aurobindo (November 20, 1909)
Mother, I bow to thee!
Rich with thy hurrying streams,
Bright with thy orchard gleams,
Cool with thy winds of delight,
Dark fields waving, Mother of might,
Mother free.
Glory of moonlight dreams
Over thy branches and lordly streams,
Clad in thy blossoming trees,
Mother, giver of ease,
Laughing low and sweet!
Mother, I kiss thy feet,
Speaker sweet and low!
Mother, to thee I bow.
Who hath said thou art weak in thy lands,
When the swords flash out in twice seventy million hands
And seventy millions voices roar
Thy dreadful name from shore to shore?
With many strengths who art mighty and stored,
To thee I call, Mother and Lord!
Thou who savest, arise and save!
To her I cry who ever her foemen drave
Back from plain and sea
And shook herself free.
Thou art wisdom, thou art law,
Thou our heart, our soul, our breath,
Thou the love divine, the awe
In our hearts that conquers death.
Thine the strength that nerves the arm,
Thine the beauty, thine the charm.
Every image made divine
In our temples is but thine.
Thou art Durga, Lady and Queen,
With her hands that strike and her swords of sheen,
Thou art Lakshmi lotus-throned,
Pure and perfect without peer,
Mother, lend thine ear.
Rich with thy hurrying streams,
Bright with thy orchard gleams,
Dark of hue, O candid-fair
In thy soul, with jewelled hair
And thy glorious smile divine,
Loveliest of all earthly lands,
Showering wealth from well-stored hands!
Mother, mother mine!
Mother sweet, I bow to thee,
Mother great and free.
Sri Aurobindo said that he was exceedingly pleased to know that the song had become so popular in all parts of India and that it was being so repeatedly sung. He said that he would make this national anthem the subject of his speech.
The song, he said, was not only a national anthem to be looked on as the European nations look upon their own, but one replete with mighty power, being a sacred mantra, revealed to us by the author of "Ananda Math", who might be called an inspired Rishi. He described the manner in which the mantra had been revealed to Bankim Chandra, probably by a Sannyasi under whose teaching he was. He said that the mantra was not an invention, but a revivification of the old mantra which had become extinct, so to speak, by the treachery of one Navakishan. The mantra of Bankim Chandra was not appreciated in his own day, and he predicted that there would come a time when the whole of India would resound with the singing of the song, and the word of the prophet was miraculously fulfilled.
The meaning of the song was not understood then because there was no patriotism except such as consisted in making India the shadow of England and other countries which dazzled the sight of the sons of this our Motherland with their glory and opulence. The so-called patriots of that time might have been the well-wishers of India but not men who loved her. One who loved his mother never looked to her defects, never disregarded her as an ignorant, superstitious, degraded and decrepit woman. 
The speaker then unfolded the meaning of the song. As with the individual, so with the nation, there were three bodies or koshas, the sth's'a and k'na shariras. In this way the speaker went on clearing up the hidden meaning of the song. The manner in which he treated of love and devotion was exceedingly touching and the audience sat before him like dumb statues, not knowing where they were or whether they were listening to a prophet revealing to them the higher mysteries of life.
He then concluded with a most pathetic appeal to true patriotism and exhorted the audience to love the Motherland and sacrifice everything to bring about her salvation.
First published in "Bande Mataram", January 29, 1908

 

From: "Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 8:54 AM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Bande Mataram includes Muslims as part of Bangla Ma's Sontan (Children of Mother Bangla)

 
Bande Mataram includes Muslims as part of Bangla Ma's Sontan (Children of Mother Bangla) - so says Farida Majid in a post June 26, 2015, in the Mukto-Mona forum. Let me quote her, "I had posted a long, well-researched, linguistically analyzed article on Bankim's Bande Mataram, supporting the claim that the text of the song had nothing against Muslims, and in fact INCLUDES Muslims (as arithmetical half) as part of Bangla Ma's 'sontan'."
 
She also complained that Dr. Kamal Das, Dr. Jiten Roy and I did not remember her article. Let me say sorry to her for not remembering her article; I am actually not very good at remembering anything.
 
However, let me advise her that the three gentlemen's name she mentioned know that Bande Mataram is not a hate-song against the Muslims. I personally would not propose it in its entirety to be the national anthem of a pluralistic India. For that purpose, I would expunge the fourth and fifth stanzas, where Hindu deities and temples are invoked. As I wrote before, I can understand that many Muslims would not like this song as the national anthem; but this song certainly was not used for actually hating or hurting the Muslims.
 
The point is not really if the above three persons remember Ms. Majid's article. Ms. Majid needs to educate people like Ali Shaheen and the worse creatures in the forums and elsewhere.
 
BTW: Ms. Majid also did not like my statement that "she masquerades as a rational human being, but in reality her mind is subservient to the prescriptions of her religion, which obviously she cannot hide. I feel pity for her kind of people who, in spite of a good deal of academic accomplishment in humanities/sciences, remain captive to the stupidity and hatred of their religions."
 
Let me challenge Ms. Majid to prove me wrong. Ms. Majid, could you cite some verses in the Quran that should be actually discarded/disregarded? You need to tell the Muslims unequivocally, "these verses in the Quran are wrong; do not follow them."
 
Again, let me be clear that irrespective of what verses of the Quran are wrong and need to be discarded/disregarded, I wish nothing but the best for the Muslims. (That obviously means that I want them to live in an environment where they and the non-Muslims would treat each other with justice, dignity, human rights, citizenship rights, etc. - all the good things that all humans wish for themselves).
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
====================





__._,_.___

Posted by: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] clipping of Dainik-Statesman



clip



__._,_.___

Posted by: Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] Yoga





__._,_.___

Posted by: Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] Fwd: {PFC-Friends} digit-AL low and disorder : দেশ এখন ধর্ষণের রঙ্গমঞ্চ: সংসদে মেনন





দেশ এখন ধর্ষণের রঙ্গমঞ্চ: সংসদে মেনন

দেশ এখন ধর্ষণের রঙ্গমঞ্চ বলে মন্তব্য করেছেন বেসামরিক বিমান চলাচল ও পর্যটনমন্ত্রী রাশেদ খান মেনন। বৃহস্পতিবার জাতীয় সংসদে ২০১৫-১৬ অর্থবছরের প্রস্তাবিত বাজেট নিয়ে সাধারণ আলোচনায় অংশ নিয়ে সরকারের শরিক বাংলাদেশের ওয়ার্কার্স পার্টির সভাপতি রাশেদ খান মেনন এ মন্তব্য করেন। তিনি বিদ্যুৎ, পে-স্কেলসহ বিভিন্ন বিষয়ে সরকারের কর্মকাণ্ডের সমালোচনাও করেন।

আলোচনায় অংশ নিয়ে রাশেদ খান মেনন বলেন, দেশ এখন ধর্ষণের রঙ্গমঞ্চ। সারা দেশেই ধর্ষণ বেড়ে গেছে। নারীরা নিরাপদে চলাফেরা করতে না পারলে সভ্য দেশ বলে গণ্য করা যাবে না। দেশে সুশাসন প্রয়োজন। টেন্ডারবাজি, সন্ত্রাস, হত্যা-এসব ঘটনা জাতীয় অর্জন ম্লান করে দিচ্ছে। দেশে দুর্নীতির জন্য প্রবৃদ্ধির আড়াই ভাগ হারিয়ে যাচ্ছে বলে বিশ্বব্যাংকের হিসাবে বলা হয়েছে।

http://www.prothom-alo.com/bangladesh/article/562327/%E0%A6%A6%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%B6-%E0%A6%8F%E0%A6%96%E0%A6%A8-%E0%A6%A7%E0%A6%B0%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%B7%E0%A6%A3%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%B0-%E0%A6%B0%E0%A6%99%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%97%E0%A6%AE%E0%A6%9E%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%9A-%E0%A6%B8%E0%A6%82%E0%A6%B8%E0%A6%A6%E0%A7%87-%E0%A6%AE%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%A8%E0%A6%A8





__._,_.___

Posted by: Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] FW: That Most Terrorists Aren't Muslim May 'Come as a Surprise'--if You Get Your News From Corporate Media






Subject: That Most Terrorists Aren't Muslim May 'Come as a Surprise'--if You Get Your News From Corporate Media
From: fair@fair.org
To: farida_majid@hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2015 16:51:56 +0000

That Most Terrorists Aren't Muslim May 'Come as a Surprise'--if You Get Your News From Corporate Media
Is this email not displaying correctly?
View it in your browser.

That Most Terrorists Aren't Muslim May 'Come as a Surprise'--if You Get Your News From Corporate Media

Police at a Las Vegas terror attack (photo: Steve Marcus/Reuters)

The New York Times depicts police at the scene of a terror incident at a Las Vegas Walmart–the kind of political violence the paper thinks will surprise its readers. (photo: Steve Marcus/Reuters)

Since the Al Qaeda attacks on September 11, 2001, the New York Times (6/23/15) reports,

extremists have regularly executed smaller lethal assaults in the United States…. But the breakdown of extremist ideologies behind those attacks may come as a surprise.

The "surprise" is that more people are killed by "white supremacists, antigovernment fanatics and other non-Muslim extremists than by radical Muslims": 48 vs. 26 since 9/11, according to a study by the New America Foundation. (More comprehensive studies cited in a recent New York Times op-ed–6/16/15–show an even greater gap, with 254 killed in far-right violence since 9/11, according to West Point's Combating Terrorism Center, compared to 50 killed in jihadist-related terrorism.)
The Times suggests that "such numbers are new to the public"–but they won't come as much of a surprise to those familiar with FAIR's work. In articles like "More Terror, Less Coverage" (Extra!, 5/11) and "A Media Microscope on Islam-Linked Violence" (Extra!, 8/13), FAIR's Steve Rendall has debunked the claim that terrorism is mostly or exclusively a Muslim phenomenon, pointing out that white, right-wing Christians are responsible for the bulk of political violence in the United States.
But in a piece all about the "mismatch between public perceptions and actual cases," the entity most charged with making sure these match–the news media–doesn't get much scrutiny, except from "some Muslim advocates" who "complain" of media double standards. There is research on this question–such as a study from University of Illinois communications professor Travis Dixon, summarized in the Champaign/Urbana News Gazette (6/23/15):
Between 2008 and 2012, about 6 percent of domestic terrorism suspects were Muslim, or about 1 in 17, according to FBI reports.
But in that same period, about 81 percent of the domestic terrorists described on national cable and network television news programs were Muslim.
Statistics like these would go a long way toward explaining why there might be readers for whom reports of non-Muslim terrorism "come as a surprise."
Reporter Scott Shane does note that instances of white supremacist terror have "drawn only fleeting news media coverage"–citing lethal incidents that FAIR has sought to call attention to, like the massacre at the Sikh temple in Wisconsin (CounterSpin, 8/9/13) and a shooting spree by a far-right couple in Las Vegas (FAIR Blog, 6/13/14). "To revisit some of the episodes is to wonder why" they didn't get more press attention, Shane says–but why wonder why, when you can just, say, ask an editor?
The answers–of sorts–that the piece closes with come not from the media decision-makers who actually choose which violent incidents get spotlighted, but from academic terrorism experts. William Braniff, head of a terrorism think tank at the University of Maryland, asserts:
We understand white supremacists….  We don't really feel like we understand Al Qaeda, which seems too complex and foreign to grasp.
And John Horgan, who studies terrorism at the University of Massachusetts/Lowell, gets the last word, saying of extremist violence: "Very often, it comes from someplace you're least suspecting."
The pronouns do a lot of work in these sentences. Who are "we," exactly, that understand white supremacists so well that we don't have to pay any attention to them; are "we" different from the "you" that doesn't suspect that these well-understood white supremacists might be dangerously violent?
 

Copyright © 2015 Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting, All rights reserved.
You are receiving this email because you signed up for email alerts from Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting.
Our mailing address is:
Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting
124 W. 30th Street, Suite 201
New York, NY 10001

Add us to your address book







__._,_.___

Posted by: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

RE: [mukto-mona] RE: {PFC-Friends} India's 1947 Partition And The 'Deadly Legacy' That Persists



Typical rant based on incomplete bits of knowledge and info  pieced together by Kamal Das.  Historical fictions are fictions, not textbook history.  Now, the funny thing is -- a piece of history written in a fiction by a famous author has much better shelf life than textbook history, which can change with time depending on change of methodology, and/or new evidences on the period.

About Sukhmaya Bain, and his gratuitous slanderous comment on me --  <<"She masquerades as a rational human being, but in reality her mind is subservient to the prescriptions of her religion, which obviously she cannot hide. I feel pity for her kind of people who, in spite of a good deal of academic accomplishment in humanities/sciences, remain captive to the stupidity and hatred of their religions." --  he says he can PROVE that every word of it is RIGHT.  Let him and/or his solicitor attempt to PROVE every word of the above statement as RIGHT in a Court of Law.

Farida Majid


From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2015 08:55:46 +0600
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: {PFC-Friends} India's 1947 Partition And The 'Deadly Legacy' That Persists

 

Apparently the only member of haute culture club here is the old braggart lady. Even Bankim would be surprized by her invention that he had nothing against Muslim rulers. Fact of the matter is that common Muslim mass isn't the same as the rulers. After their decline, any ignoramus could concoct history against them. Even Bhawani Pathak, the organizer of Ananda Math, was a Marathi thug in reality who had no connection with Sannyasi unrest suppressed by the British rulers. So called middle class Muslim society arose long afterwardswho forgot their ancestry and became Syeds and Shaikhs.

On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 2:38 AM, Farida Majid farida_majid@hotmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I had posted a long, well-researched, linguistically analyzed article on Bankim's Bande Mataram, supporting the claim that the text of the  song had nothing against Muslims, and in fact INCLUDES Muslims (as arithmetical half) as part of Bangla Ma's 'sontan'.

However, neither Sukhamay, nor Kamal nor Jiten will remember that as one would expected any educated, cultured decent person to do. What you get is a tirade the comical nature of  whose language defies any justification.

<<<  Most of the time I ignore Farida Majid. She masquerades as a rational human being, but in reality her mind is subservient to the prescriptions of her religion, which obviously she cannot hide. I feel pity for her kind of people who, in spite of a good deal of academic accomplishment in humanities/sciences, remain captive to the stupidity and hatred of their religions. >>>

 How would  Sukhamay  define the pure slander of << She masquerades as a rational human being, but in reality her mind is subservient to the prescriptions of her religion >> in a Court of Law?

Yes, Sukhamay, go on ignoring Farida Majid.


From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 19:31:07 +0600
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: {PFC-Friends} India's 1947 Partition And The 'Deadly Legacy' That Persists

 

Bande Mataram was written by Bankim Chatterjee in Ananda Math. The theme of the novel was fighting Muslim rule, as the song. The novel ended with expressing pleasure in British rule. Will Durant, a noted American historian, believed the atrocities carried out by Muslim rulers against the Hindus was worst in history. There is, however, no reason to blame the descendants of the poor converts for it.

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 26, 2015, at 7:37 AM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Actually, Mr. Chakrabarty, I do not think you can really agree with Ali Shaheen completely. As I said, she is a saner voice in a jungle; but she is certainly not really outside of that jungle mindset. Look, out of all character, she advises Abid Bahar, "Combating hate with hate does not build peace ."; as if Mr. Bahar was otherwise not hateful, he just combatted hatred with hatred! Moreover, she stated that Bande Mataram "meant Hindus were coming after Muslims." Don't you think that she was informed enough to know that her statement was fraudulent? Many Muslims did not like the song, because it treated the motherland like a god to pray (bande) to; and Islam does not allow praying to anyone but Allah. But this song certainly was not used for actually hating or hurting the Muslims. And, of course, she does not get it that "if I (a humanist) did not 'understand the Quran', it would not hurt anyone in the world; however, when the Muslims do not 'understand the Quran' it has been proving extremely dangerous and barbaric to humanity."
 
SuBain
 
===========================



On Thursday, June 25, 2015 8:18 PM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
I completely agree with Mr. Ali Shaheen. We all should engage in meaning debates. 

The rules of engagement with india, or for that matter any country, should be based on the principles of mutual respect and benefit---both short term and long term. 

Mr. Abid Bahar has mentioned Bankin. I am not sure if he is in favor of outright rejection of this great talent. It would be suicidal to totally reject him. Obviously we do not have to accept every thing Bankim said. Even Rabindranath, a great admirer of Bankim, differed with him on certain views. "Bande mataram' written by Bankim contains a line "twong hi Durga" (the mother land has been looked upon as the goddess Durga). In a controversy over whether to use this song as a national anthem by Congress, Rabindranath called the association of this particular line with the song as a historical accident. He recommended for exclusion of this line. Interestingly and surprisingly Subhash Bose was not in favor of this amputation. As was expected, Jinnah was against the very Bande Mataram song in its entirety. 

My point is: let us not follow what the Muslim League ruler did to create a cultural division in the then East Pakistan. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 23, 2015, at 8:08 PM, Ali Shaheen alishaheen2010@gmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Mr. Bahar  - Condemnation and retaliation does not lead to greater understanding or peace so I would still opt for dialogue whether it be between individuals or countries. Surely we don't want people killing Mukto Mona bloggers with their intolerance either.  Islam stands for freedom of expression and free will.  I am simply choosing to set the record straight for the benefit of all members of PFC rather than hoping to change the mind of a single individual.  Mr. Bain is entitled to his opinion.  We have many Islamists whose heads are in Saudi Arabia and who are feeding their bodies in Bangladesh, Pakistan and several other countries in the West too. 

This discussion is not really about India, rather it is about misinformation regarding Islam and Islamophobia.   We can ignore what is said and let the misinformation go unchallenged, or we can engage in dialogue.  Combating hate with hate does not build peace which is what Islam is about isn't it?

And to be fair, India has never asked Bangladeshis to worship Hindu gods so I don't know where that is coming from.  Surely we were not under the impression that India, or for that matter any country, would spill its blood and treasure to liberate another country without expecting serious payback, were we?  It is not as though we were unaware of India's desire for influence and power in the region.  We cannot compete with India, just as Canada cannot compete with the U.S. and often has to go along with what the bigger power wants.  We really don't have much of a choice so perhaps we need to be more diplomatic to protect our interests to the extent that it is possible, instead of promoting Hindu-Muslim divisions and anti-India rhetoric.  There is an old saying that one catches more flies with honey than with vinegar so if we want India to play ball with us, we may want to use more diplomacy, less anger and anti-Hindu sentiments.  

Dialogue is still better than combating hate with hate.




Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 23, 2015, at 4:49 PM, Abid Bahar <abid.bahar@gmail.com> wrote:

DIALOGUE WITH BAIN IS BOUND TO BE IN VAIN

Bain is a brain washed Mukto-Mona India lover. He praises "India on secular humanism, justice, peace, science, technology, and prosperity". He says:
"Well, Farida Majid, why don't you explain the last 65 years of Islamization of Bangladesh and Pakistan?" without taking heed to the number of Indian anti Muslim riots, destruction of the Babri mosque on open day light by the official opposition etc.

Bain is like Bankim the Indian bigot. Bain says" Muslims are ... too stupid when it comes to their religion; and certainly I am not proud of them. If I had the power, I would have Humanized them as soon as possible." But how and why?
 
For a scholar humanist like Ali Shaheed, it is  is futile and waste of time to be in debate with a fanatic hate monger like Bain. He should simply be avoided.

Personally I am a veteran of the liberation war trained from India. But Mukto mona founder Avigit even called me a Jamati, for supporting Bangladeshi nationalism. To me we fought the war not to worship the Hindu gods of India as a better choice, but we wanted to be independent from foreign domination. Unfortunately, these extremist Bains even this one from untouchable backgrounds sold their heads to India but they prefer to feed their body in Bangladesh.

On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 5:34 AM, Mumtaz <mumtazjahmed@hotmail.com> wrote:
Splendidly put, Ms.Ali Shaheen


Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 23:00:56 -0400
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: {PFC-Friends} India's 1947 Partition And The 'Deadly Legacy' That Persists
From: alishaheen2010@gmail.com
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com
CC: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com

My responses are in green below

On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 10:34 AM, 'Sukhamaya Bain' via PFC-Friends <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com> wrote:
 
Actually, let me change my mind and not totally ignore Ali Shaheen, since she is a saner voice in a jungle.
 
First, I did not use any derogatory adjective on any individual here, which both Ms. Majid and Ms. Shaheen did on me. In fact, after my last post, I expected Ms. Shaeen to talk like, "Dr. Bain, sir, I misjudged you, you are actually no hate monger." Instead, I just got, "I was not suggesting that you don't have Muslim friends"; and she still used terms like "bigot" and "intellectually dishonest", kind of indirectly on me.

This is what you wrote Mr. Bain: 

Most of the time I ignore Farida Majid. She masquerades as a rational human being, but in reality her mind is subservient to the prescriptions of her religion, which obviously she cannot hide. I feel pity for her kind of people who, in spite of a good deal of academic accomplishment in humanities/sciences, remain captive to the stupidity and hatred of their religions.
 
SuBain 

You suggested that Farida is irrational and captive to the stupidity and hatred of her religion despite her academic background. You don't consider those remarks derogatory? Is your hatred of Islam rational? Is it not fair to question where your hatred of Islam has come from because you don't seem to have practised or understood the religion.  Indeed you refuse to understand or accept any explanation that is given.
 
In any case, it is good that Ms. Shaheen realizes at least that the barbarian atrocities on the non-Muslims of Pakistan and Bangladesh "is a more recent phenomenon starting in the 70's." Let me ask her to search Google for "1964 East-Pakistan Riots" and "1950 Barisal Riots" to educate herself a bit more. I for one remember my childhood in the 1960s, where "nare takbeer, alla huakbar" meant "Muslims are coming to loot and burn Hindu villages."

Well in India "Vande Matram" meant Hindus were coming after Muslims too.  My own parents' home was marked for burning and they had to flee India overnight.  I assure you it has not made me hate Hinduism or Hindus because I know that in South Asia minorities in every country are vulnerable because of poverty, corruption and the use of religion by unscrupulous politicians to promote hate.  I found it very interesting that you focused only on Pakistan and Bangladesh, but ignored the religious riots in India and Sri Lanka.  How many years did the Tamil-Sinhalese conflict continue?  Was it because Hinduism and Buddhism are evil?  In fact when people equate them with "evil paganism" (yes some Muslims do that), I am the first to say that Hinduism is no different from Christianity which recognizes 3 manifestations of the One God and Hinduism recognizes many manifestations of One God (Is it Brahma or Vishnu?).  Buddhism on the other hand sees the Buddha as a respected teacher to whom homage is paid.  Worship or meditation with the image of a god or teacher is not paganism, it is merely an aid, a tool to focus one's thoughts.  Please correct me if I am wrong, as I was not born in the faith and have only learned from my own reading, from Hindu and Buddhist friends and by attending Hindu satsangs and Buddhist spiritual retreats.  There is a difference between those who hate and those who seek to understand and build bridges.  The choice is yours.
 
Now let me talk a bit about me not 'understanding the Quran' (paraphrasing Ms. Shaeen). In one sentence, if I did not 'understand the Quran', it would not hurt anyone in the world; however, when the Muslims do not 'understand the Quran' it has been proving extremely dangerous and barbaric to humanity. Here is an example (from one of my recent articles):

I fully agree with you that many Muslims have themselves not understood the Quran and have done great damage to both other Muslims and non-Muslims as a result.  However, non-Muslims can also hurt others by their lack of understanding because of their Islamophobia and intolerance of both Muslims and Islam.  Do you think the Clarion Project does not try to influence policy and promote war with the Muslim world while allying with Israel?  Where does public support for drone strikes, invading Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran come from?  Please think before you ink.  Hate is destructive regardless of who harbours it either in their hearts or spreads it through their words.
 
The following is copied directly from the Islamic State online magazine, DABIQ:
 
"Upon conquering the region of Sinjar in Wilāyat Nīnawā, the Islamic State faced a population of Yazidis, a pagan minority existent for ages in regions of Iraq and Shām. Their continual existence to this day is a matter that Muslims should question as they will be asked about it on Judgment Day, considering that Allah had revealed Āyat as-Sayf (the verse of the sword) over 1400 years ago. He ta'ālā said, {And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the mushrikīn wherever you find them, and capture them, and besiege them, and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.} [At-Tawbah: 5]."

Do you know the context of this verse Mr.Bain?  Al-Tawbah is Chapter 9 in the Quran.  It is convenient to cut and dice a verse away from its context, but I will urge you to read it the introductory verse in the chapter too:

9:1 God and his Messenger declare disassociation from those with whom you made a contract among the ones who were polytheists who violated it.  

Note this chapter begins with a verse that refers to people who violated a treaty - not people who are minding their own business and doing you no harm.  Please also read the verse that precedes verse 9:5 (9 refers to chapter and 5 refers to the verse number):

9:4  But those with whom you have made a contract - among the ones who are polytheists - and, moreover, they reduce you not at all, nor have they backed anyone against you, then fulfil their compact with them until their term of contract expires.  Truly God loves the ones who are Godfearing.

As you can see, not only is there permission to negotiate and make contracts with polytheists there is also proscription for retaliating against them. even if they have broken the treaty, in the sacred months. There are 4 sacred months in which war is not allowed.  The Quran provides clear rules of war which include not fighting in certain sacred months, not being the aggressor, not destroying crops, not attacking civilians, women or children and not attacking people in places of worship.   9:5 which you quoted is about retaliating against those who have broken their treaty with Muslims after the sacred months have passed.  Islam is not a pacifist religion.  There is permission to retaliate in self defence.  This is what the Quran really says and what Muslims are supposed to do, but as we know, politics and religion are not the same.  How does Mr. Bush justify the invasion of Iraq?  According to the Quran having weapons of mass destruction would not have been sufficient grounds for war as long as the country with the weapons was not invading you.  Do you REALLY think Iraq was going to invade America?  And should we blame Christianity and the Bible because Bush called for a Crusade right after 9/11?

 
 
Note that in the above paragraph there is a verse from the Quran, which the Islamic State militants followed to commit their barbaric atrocities on a religious minority population, the Yazidis, who were not powerful enough to harm or threaten the Muslims anywhere in the world. And what are the reactions to these most heinous crimes among the followers of the Quran? I have not seen any significant Islamic religious leader/organization condemning the Islamic State, or issuing any religious edict for punishing that organization or its members/fighters.

Looks like you and I are not reading the same papers because I have not come across any significant Muslim leader who has NOT condemned ISIS.  But are you at all familiar with the Clarion Project and who funds them? Remember Iranium the film that was scaremongering about Iran's nuclear policy to prevent Obama from making a nuclear deal with Iran?  It was funded and produced by the Clarion Project.  Fox News loves them. They are a right wing Republican body which actually includes some Muslims who are trying to reform their co-religionists.  You may want to check out the following link:

 
Now, if a non-Muslim were to just cite that verse in any way, what do you think the average protector of Islam would conclude? He/she would conclude that the non-Muslim disrespected their holy book and/or hated their religion or them. But, of course, if personally I were to cite this verse, the purpose would be to educate the Muslims, to ask them to use some common sense, sense of justice, and compassion in deciding how much and what parts of their holy book they should follow and what parts they should disregard/discard. My citation would not promote anything like killing Muslim men or enslaving Muslim women or any other kind of injustice/crime against them.

If you want to educate the Muslims please at least take the trouble to read the whole chapter instead of quoting a single verse out of context :).  There is actually a historical context and an intra-text context.  I have only cited the intra-text context above and have not even gone into the historical context which was about a treaty made with non-Muslims that was violated and this verse referred to how Muslims were to deal with the situation.  If one were to take the historical context into account then it could be said that 9:5 applied only to a specific situation in the 7th. century.  There are some teachings in the Quran that are for all times and some for a specific context.  The universal meaning of 9:5 would be that one can form alliances with anyone and respect the treaty as long as it is not violated, but when it is broken then retaliate according to the rules of war.
 
So, to the protectors of Islam, the Quranic message, when cited benignly by a non-Muslim intellectual for humanizing the Muslims becomes hatred, but when followed though by the barbarians to commit real hate-crimes becomes their pleasure due to the propagation of Islam in the world.

You obviously have not made a distinction between Islam and Muslims.  When some Muslims use Islam to promote hate in order to push their own political agenda, you blame Islam.  Do you think ISIS is a religious movement or a political movement?  I hope you do realize that it is a political movement that is using religion as a political tool.  This sort of thing was happening in Europe too but they dealt with it by separating religion from State.  Muslims have not been able to do that and those who are trying are being opposed by Islamists.  But followers of other religions have also considered themselves the chosen people and hated others.  Human beings can use their religion for peace or for intolerance - it is up to them. I on the other hand blame some Muslims for corrupting their faith.  I don't blame all Jews for what is happening in Palestine, I blame the State of Israel and I also recognize that there are many Jews with integrity who oppose what Israel is doing in Palestine.

I also happen to think that Islam does not need any protection because I understand the Quran to say that Allah protects the Quran and Islam.  Human beings need protection - that includes Muslims and non-Muslims - from bigots of all kinds who are found among the followers of every religion: Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Sikhism and no religion i.e. Atheism. 

Frankly I don't know if this will make any difference to your understanding of Islam, Mr. Bain,  but I certainly hope it will be helpful to others when they deal with Islamophobia.

Salaam, Shalom, Peace!

Shaheen



 
 
So long for now,
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
====================
 



On Sunday, June 21, 2015 11:16 PM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:




On Sunday, June 21, 2015 5:48 PM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:


"You have obviously not understood the Quran which prohibits the killing of innocents, allows war under strict rules for self defence and tells Muslims to make peace, not be the aggressor and to cease hostilities when the enemy agrees to peace."- -Shaheen

Typical nonsense from another gullible that I would rather ignore. Nobody understands Quran and hence... whatever is being done in the name of Islam and Quran are basically beyond us, the mortals. Only if enemy surrenders, start singing Islamic gospel and pays the jijia taxes for protection, peace will follow? How many times do I need to hear this broken record? So, who really understands Quran? Mr. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi or Ms. Shaheen? They might be saying the same thing with different tonality. I do not think any Yazidis would have patience for such BS.
 




On Sunday, June 21, 2015 2:52 PM, "alishaheen2010@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Mr. Bain, I was not suggesting that you don't have Muslim friends.  I was suggesting that you hate Islam because you seem to think that it is the cause of atrocities.  You have obviously not understood the Quran which prohibits the killing of innocents, allows war under strict rules for self defence and tells Muslims to make peace, not be the aggressor and to cease hostilities when the enemy agrees to peace.

I stand by my comment that barbarian atrocities were not committed in Pakistan since its creation 65 years ago because that is a more recent phenomenon starting in the 70's.  India on the other hand has had more riots since it gained independence 65 years ago.  Just do the math from 1947 and 1970 and you will know that it is not 65 years of barbarian atrocities.  

One can be critical of religion because it has its imperfections, but you cross the line into bigotry when you fail to appreciate the good that also takes place in the name of religion, when you fail to acknowledge that most atrocities are committed because of politics and economics with religion being used as a tool to sway illiterate masses.  You think Palestine is about religion and ignore the issue of land and statehood even after it is pointed out to you.  Hitler targeted Jews because of economic reasons.  Minorities are persecuted when jobs are scarce.  Religion is used for furthering political agendas because you can get people to sacrifice their lives for God in any religion.  I have explained all this before but you steadfastly choose to ignore the role of politics and economics in barbarian atrocities because it serves your personal jihad against religions.  Would you call that bigotry or intellectual dishonesty or both?

If you don't wish to talk about any individual person then you should stick to issues and not engage in personal attacks and accuse others of hate when you make similar remarks.  So you are against religious intolerance by becoming intolerant of religion?  That's just two sides of the same intolerant coin!

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 20, 2015, at 8:45 AM, 'Sukhamaya Bain' via PFC-Friends <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Ms. Shaheen, you said, "I don't want you to ignore the issue of hate at all", in response to my statement, "let me ignore your pot-kettle-hate-excuse talk." Your advice was not needed at all; because in most of my sociopolitical writings, I talk about hatred and put forth my thoughts on removing hatred from the world. When you write/think, ". you are full of it yourself .", you are plain wrong. I did not ignore hatred; I ignored "your talk", because your talk (of me being hateful) was unworthy of a response. But now I thank you for your caring talk about my health.
 
I generally do not wish to talk about any individual person, including myself. But since quite a few people, including yourself, in the internet forums talk about me, let me say a few things about myself.
 
When I was a student at Dhaka University in the 1970s, I used to live in a mostly Muslim-inhabited dorm. Some of my Muslim friends and I used to smoke from the same cigarette butt. I remember having a serious case of dysentery in 1979 after eating too much of beef when I visited a Muslim's friends village. I remember my brothers, sisters, their Muslim friends and me eating jackfruit pieces from the same bowl when I visited West Bengal. I remember at my niece's wedding in West Bengal, there were too many guests in the house, and my nephew and his friends, including Muslims boys, sleeping on the same big floor. I have established two scholarship/stipend funds in Bangladesh, and most of the money [~$1,000.00 (~Tk 80,000) that comes from bank interests annually] goes to Muslim students, as they are the majority there. I remember in 2012, after I came back from Bangladesh, I was showing some pictures to my children; and they smiled at one with me shaking hands with a cute girl wearing burqa while taking a top student award. Do these show that I hated the Muslims?
 
Now let me quote something that I recently wrote in response to Dr. Anisur Rahman's queries:
 
Begin Qoute: "As I say, when a Muslim took bath upstream in the river by my house in rural East Bengal, he/she probably urinated there; I had to take bath in that river; how could I think that he/she was untouchable to me? Muslims are indeed my brothers and sisters. Of course, most of them are too stupid when it comes to their religion; and certainly I am not proud of them. If I had the power, I would have Humanized them as soon as possible.
 
Now, your question of why Muslims are killing other Muslims? Here is the short version of my answer: They are too much into the irrational and unreal territory of their religion. So, they have a serious/deadly problem with people, including other Muslims, on what to do with their Allah, Mohammad, Quran, Hadit, etc. Because of their excessive religiosity, they follow or try to follow the prescriptions of their religion; and they are incapable of thinking with the common senses of right and wrong, justice and injustice, realities of the universe, etc. Without seeing natural realities, one could not advance in the fields of science, technology and other branches of knowledge, and as a consequence one would remain backward, poor, etc. This in turn, would make one vulnerable to committing criminal acts. It is a vicious cycle; and I am convinced that getting out of this cycle would require Muslims to stop brainwashing their children with Islam." End Quote.
 
I stand by every word I said above, not for telling you about me, but of all people in the world to live in justice, peace, dignity, human rights, etc.
 
To make it short for now, let me just ask you to try to correct your statement of, ""Barbarian atrocities" were not committed in Pakistan and Bangladesh against non-Muslims over the past 65 years."
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
==========================================
 


On Saturday, June 20, 2015 2:57 AM, Ali Shaheen <alishaheen2010@gmail.com> wrote:


Actually I don't want you to ignore the issue of hate at all.  You accused others of hating, when you are full of it yourself, so perhaps you need to explain yourself before accusing others.  Have you or your family been subjected to atrocities by Muslims which makes you so intolerant?  If so, I hope you will be able to heal and move beyond it, because such intolerance will only hurt you in the long run.  Anger affects our own health rather than the target of one's anger.

Here is the explanation you wanted:  "Barbarian atrocities" were not committed in Pakistan and Bangladesh against non-Muslims over the past 65 years.  They are a more recent phenomenon post 1971 which is less than 65 years.  Many of these atrocities in Pakistan at least, are committed not just on non-Muslims but also on Muslim minorities like Shias, Ahmedis and Ismailis.  In fact India has had more Hindu-Muslim riots over the past 65 years so you may want to fact check that one.  And India has not shared a border with Afghanistan and been directly affected by the war on terror the way Pakistan has. 

In Pakistan minorities lived in peace until its "Talibanization" following the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and later the American invasion of Afghanistan post 9/11, which flooded Pakistan with Afghan Taliban refugees who have been wreaking havoc ever since.  In the meantime RAW has been adding fuel to fire too in Baluchistan and other places, just as ISI has been in Kashmir and East Punjab.  Thanks to US policies, Pakistan fell into the trap of training and promoting the Taliban against the Soviets and was then forced into the war on terror because Bush threatened to bomb Pakistan into the Stone Age if it did not co-operate.  Then the drone strikes continued where civilians became "collateral damage" which fueled more terrorism.  I don't suppose you use the term "barbarian atrocities" when Muslim civilians are the targets of drones do you?  Collateral damage is a more sanitized term :).

I thought I had explained already that Saudi funded madrasahs in both Pakistan and Bangladesh have flourished since the 70's which have radicalized both populations.  Saudi aid for Pakistan and Bangladesh have strings attached and promoting Wahabi intolerant Islam are those strings.  Incidentally Saudi Arabia is a great friend of the West and Israel and they have unlimited oil resources to promote their agenda in poor Muslim countries.

The answer once again lies in politics Mr. Bain, but you wish to find a reason to blame religion so suit yourself.  You are entitled to your opinions and prejudices, even if I think you are mistaken :). 

On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 9:01 PM, 'Sukhamaya Bain' via PFC-Friends <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Well, Ms. Shaheen, let me ignore your pot-kettle-hate-excuse talk.
 
Could you please explain why over the last 65 years, Pakistan and Bangladesh Islamized the state, discriminated against and hated the non-Muslims, committed barbarian atrocities on them, and uprooted them from their homeland?
 
SuBain
 
=============================
 
On Thursday, June 18, 2015 6:49 PM, "alishaheen2010@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




 
Is the pot calling the kettle black?!!!!!  Since you don't seem to have a religion, what is the source of your hate? I understand that you too have academic credentials, so what is your excuse?  Let us discuss issues without getting personal.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 18, 2015, at 7:06 AM, 'Sukhamaya Bain' via PFC-Friends <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Most of the time I ignore Farida Majid. She masquerades as a rational human being, but in reality her mind is subservient to the prescriptions of her religion, which obviously she cannot hide. I feel pity for her kind of people who, in spite of a good deal of academic accomplishment in humanities/sciences, remain captive to the stupidity and hatred of their religions.
 
SuBain
 
=============================
 



On Wednesday, June 17, 2015 10:59 PM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Farida Majid's brain is partially blocked by the influence of her religion. So, it is quite unexpected that truthful and logical statements will emanate from such mind. Aurangzeb was one of the most ambitious ruthless emperors India ever had, which, unfortunately, is a pride for people like Farida.
History of Muslim rulers is not correctly documented, perhaps,  due to lack of proper education among Indians in that period. More than 500 years of Muslim rule, gave Indians Forts, Taj Mahal and mosques on the existing local temples.
On the contrary, 200 years of British rule educated Indians, and developed India by giving world class education system, judicial system, medical system, and communication system of that era, some of which they still use.
Jiten Roy 


 

From: "Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: {PFC-Friends} India's 1947 Partition And The 'Deadly Legacy' That Persists

 
It is funny that Muslims did not have any problem with two hundreds years of Mughal rule of India. But when democratic rule were to be introduced in 1947, all hell broke loose. Suddenly Muslims were afraid of loosing everything including democratic rights? So what did we get? Our peyara and pure Pakistan! How did that experiment go? Do I need to elaborate any further? One wing is ruled by strong military and the other did not hesitate to kill its founder. And democratic rule is still a dream for the masses and our Jeffersonian BNP cadres. We should blame Hindus, Jews and Christians because they did teach and show us the road to the democracy. They cheated us and now we have to kill each other to establish the rule of heaven? What word you do not understand? 

Farida, thank God English came, exploited us and enlightened us than having more Aurangebs ruling this great country of Bharat for another two hundreds more. Mughals are no less foreigners than English.     
 




On Wednesday, June 17, 2015 6:15 PM, "Farida Majid farida_majid@hotmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Shaheen,
       Sukhmay Bain is a tiresome troll whose heart is blackened by a communal rage.  He says outrageously absurd  things against the Muslims day after day, month after month, year after year.

          Now, you can feel like appeasing him by saying things against Aurangzeb -- the Emperor who brought the Mughal Empire to the zenith of its glory. The British started this bad-mouthing about Aurangzeb in broad generalizations (with the idea of upholding the European superiority over a degenerate Muslim ruler) -- none of the allegations hold up when examined in detail.  There is new scholarship available with surprising evidences of the glory of Aurangzeb's rule, both at home and abroad.  The Mughal Empire lasted 100 yrs after Aurangzeb's death, and the prosperity was undiminished until the British started robbing India's wealth -- outright looting!
             Also, the British did not "rule" India for several centuries.  There was a commercial outfit -- the East India Company -- that did the looting in the guise of doing trade. It was not until after 1857 War of Resistance fought against the British Company by both Hindus and Muslims of India (I refuse to call it Sepoy Mutiny) that the British Empire officially gobbled India.


Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 23:20:34 -0400
Subject: Re: {PFC-Friends} India's 1947 Partition And The 'Deadly Legacy' That Persists
From: alishaheen2010@gmail.com
To: pfc-friends@googlegroups.com

Incredible!  Do say more on how it began in 7th. century Arabia?  Did Muhammad call for the division of India?!  He negotiated the Madina Charter to make peace with Jews, Christians and pagans whereby they were considered part of the Muslim community.  Have you studied the history of 7th. century Arabia Mr. Bain?

There was Muslim rule in India but the decline started with Aurangzeb.  More recently there was British rule in India for several centuries too.  So why the animosity between Muslims and Hindus but not Christians and Hindus or Christians and Muslims?  Because the Muslim population was larger and they wanted their share of resources and power which the Hindu majority was not willing to share.  Jinnah did not want independence.  Like Mujib, he wanted autonomy, and like Mujib he too was forced to declare independence because of the pig headedness of majority Hindus and the stubbornness of Nehru and his secret deals with the British thanks to his "friendship" with Mrs. Mountbatten.  

Similarly Bangalis who were at the forefront of the Pakistan independence movement got tired of being colonized and persecuted by Pakistanis and their refusal to share power even after Awami League won the elections in 1971.  Open your eyes to politics Mr. Bain - it is more than religion, it is about power and resources, but religion is used every step of the way to manipulate the masses.  It was the Pakistani army that killed Hindus in East Pakistan in 1971 and it is the Saudi funded madrasahs that are now promoting anti-Hindu propaganda in Bangladesh.  It is not Islam it is politics, and religion is only being used to serve political agendas.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 7:42 AM, 'Sukhamaya Bain' via PFC-Friends <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com> wrote:
The deadly legacy did not begin in 1947 in the Indian subcontinent. It began in the 7th century Arabia.
Look, if it were just the 1947 India, neither Bangladesh nor Pakistan would have had Islam in the business of the state. If these two countries were respectful of the non-Muslims of the land, today they would be competing friendly with India on secular humanism, justice, peace, science, technology, and prosperity. Blaming it all on 1947, the British rulers, etc. is really diverting the reality of the last 65 years. (Assume the first 3 years to be the unavoidable turbulent time after the partition).
I would not be surprised if Nisid Hajari is paid by the pan-Islamic powers/interest groups.
 
SuBain
 
===========================
 



On Monday, June 15, 2015 11:16 PM, Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> wrote:


India's 1947 Partition And The 'Deadly Legacy' That Persists To This Day

June 09, 2015 1:49 PM ET
British Maj. T.J. Monaghan (left) and Pvt. H. Farabrother of the Inniskilling Regiment of Northern Ireland, walk through wreckage after riots destroyed parts of the Punjab suburb of Amritsar, India, in March 1947. i
British Maj. T.J. Monaghan (left) and Pvt. H. Farabrother of the Inniskilling Regiment of Northern Ireland, walk through wreckage after riots destroyed parts of the Punjab suburb of Amritsar, India, in March 1947.
AP

<< 

On how Muslims felt alienated from the independence movement



Part of [Gandhi's] genius was he was able to broaden out the appeal of the independence movement, which, until that movement, had been restricted to fairly wealthy lawyers and landowners and so on, who would debate things like percentages in these legislatures ... but he broadened it out to the masses. But the way he did it was by using Hindu iconography and stories, mythology, every evening he would have a prayer meeting where they would chant Hindu hymns but also read from the Quran and so forth. He was personally very unprejudiced about this, but his natural background was Hindu and his audience was almost entirely Hindu and he appealed to them in the language that they understood. But for Muslims, ordinary Muslims, who would see this and listen to these speeches and so forth, he seemed like a Hindu figure more than a national figure - not all Muslims, of course, but a great many of them.


http://www.npr.org/2015/06/09/413121135/indias-1947-partition-and-the-deadly-legacy-that-persists-to-this-day


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PFC-Friends" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pfc-friends+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PFC-Friends" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pfc-friends+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PFC-Friends" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pfc-friends+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.






--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PFC-Friends" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pfc-friends+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PFC-Friends" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pfc-friends+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PFC-Friends" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pfc-friends+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PFC-Friends" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pfc-friends+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.







--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PFC-Friends" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pfc-friends+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PFC-Friends" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pfc-friends+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PFC-Friends" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pfc-friends+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PFC-Friends" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pfc-friends+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.









__._,_.___

Posted by: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Newer Posts Older Posts Home