Banner Advertiser

Saturday, March 12, 2016

[mukto-mona] A Debacle In Pakistan, A Lesson For Bangladesh - By Taj Hashmi



             

A Debacle In Pakistan, A Lesson For Bangladesh

By Taj Hashmi

12 March, 2016
Countercurrents.org

What Indian nationalist Gopal Krishna Gokhale (1866-1915) once quipped, "What Bengal thinks today, India thinks tomorrow" is no longer applicable to what is left of Bengal today, Bangladesh and the Indian state of Paschim Banga. Bangladesh in particular is at the receiving end of all traits of culture – material or immaterial. While most of the acquired behaviour is benign, some are infested with debilitating "flesh-eating" bacteria, which have already infected the body politic of Bangladesh without being considered dangerous by many.

The rapid, mindless adoption of alien culture is reflected in the language, literature, music, attire, manners, social etiquette, food habit, and most importantly, in politics and political culture of Bangladesh. As the quarter-century of Pakistani hegemony substantially moulded the political culture, so has expatriate workers' exposure to Arab culture since the 1970s profoundly impacted the popular culture in Bangladesh. Thus, civil-military authoritarianism; state-sponsored and hypocritical Islamization programmes; and persecution of freethinkers, women, and minorities have almost become normative across the country.

The Pakistani "debacle" I'm referring to is state-sponsorship of Wahhabism, pre-modern Sharia code, and the infringement of human rights, especially of minorities and women. Thanks to its unabated growth, political Islam has already destabilized the country, and has spilled over beyond its borders. It's no exaggeration that the country's criminal justice system – to a large extent – has broken down, and its leftover is comparable to what prevails in Saudi Arabia. Meanwhile, the age-old tribal honour system, "blood money", and the so-called Blasphemy Law reign supreme.

Am I an alarmist for believing elements of the Pakistani "debacle" might eventually trickle down to Bangladesh? I don't think so. Before I elaborate why I think the Pakistani "debacle" is potentially dangerous to Bangladesh, I cite just one example from Pakistan, in this regard. Recently, the whole world witnessed mammoth mass protests by tens of thousands of Pakistanis in Karachi, Lahore, and Islamabad against the execution of Mumtaz Qadri, a convicted killer of Salman Taseer, a former Governor of the Pakistani province of Punjab. Qadri, the Governor's bodyguard, gunned him down in January 2011 for his public sympathy for Asia Bibi, a Pakistani Christian woman, convicted to death in 2010 for allegedly committing blasphemy against the Prophet of Islam. Interestingly, Qadri didn't belong to any Islamist extremist group but a Sufi order.

Are the killing of Governor Taseer and people's support for his killer among millions of Pakistanis relevant to Bangladesh? Possibly yes. Bangladesh has already adopted the soft version of Blasphemy Law to placate extremists who have terrorized secular writers and intellectuals, and have already killed scores of them for their alleged blasphemous writings against Islam. Ominously, there are people and groups in the country who favour killing for blasphemy. Some of them are persistently asking for the Blasphemy Law – with the provision of death penalty for blasphemers – proscription of "anti-Islamic" books, organizations, and declaration of the tiny Ahmadiyya Muslim community "non-Muslim", a la Pakistan.

As an eyewitness to the metamorphosis of the relatively liberal and secular Bangladeshi society into an illiberal, dogmatic and intolerant one during the last four decades, I think the complacent people and Government are collectively responsible for the rot. What was once unthinkable, is a reality today; and what we think will never happen in this country, might be in the pipeline, will give us an unpleasant surprise, one day! What our rulers once considered harmless or even necessary – trading secularism with Islamism – have become a big liability and threat to secular democracy in Bangladesh. I refer to the unwise rehabilitation of Islam-oriented political parties, and very similar to Pakistan, the quixotic decision to make Islam as the "State Religion" in Bangladesh.

Since Pakistan and what is Bangladesh today started their postcolonial journey together in 1947, and have inherited the state-sponsored "soft" Islamism introduced by the first Pakistani Prime Minister Liaquat Ali Khan in 1949, they have a common legacy with regard to the Islamization process. Very similar to General Zia ul-Haq of Pakistan, two successive military rulers of Bangladesh – Ziaur Rahman and H.M. Ershad – also legitimized political Islam in their own ways. Meanwhile, thanks to state patronage, ruling elite's political expediency and hypocrisy, and pressure from Islamist parties like the Jamaat-e-Islami, "soft" Islamism has become crystallized, and posing a threat to liberal democracy and secularism in both Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Ever since the Liberation, the fate of civility, democracy and secularism in Bangladesh is in a state of entropy. While the gradual decline of order into disorder has become the norm, unless democracy and secularism get a breathing space, the re-staging of the Pakistani tragedy remains a not-so-distant possibility in Bangladesh. I know Bangladeshi analysts, scholars, and politicians might disagree with me. "Bangladesh is very different from Pakistan" – albeit hyperbolic and hollow – has been the common thread of their argument. I wish the argument were convincing!

The reality in Bangladesh is somewhat very different from the elite perception. Despite the Supreme Court decision of August 1, 2013, which declared the registration of the Jamaat-e-Islami illegal, ruling that the party was unfit to contest national polls, the Islamist party is yet to be officially proscribed. And despite what we got from media reports early this month that Bangladesh Supreme Court could drop Islam as the country's State Religion following a string of attacks on minority communities, one has reasons to believe no executive decision is in the offing, in concurrence with the judiciary. Once the genie is out, it's almost impossible to put it back into the bottle.

Islamist extremism does not drop from the heavens or sprout up from the ground. Secular leaders – over the years – prepare the groundwork for Islamist takeover, terrorism, or insurgency through corruption, despotism, hypocrisy and opportunism. This has happened in Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Pakistan, and elsewhere. Bangladesh can't remain immune to Islamist extremism, for an indefinite period. Since Islamism is an ideology-driven extremist ideology – not a law-and-order-problem – even highly efficient police and military are no match for Islamist extremism. Pakistan's experience should be an eye-opener. Bangladesh must realize neither opportunistic politics nor political hypocrisy, but democracy and the rule of law are the only anti-dotes to Islamist extremism.

The writer teaches security studies at Austin Peay State University. He is the author of several books, including Global Jihad and America: The Hundred-Year War Beyond Iraq and Afghanistan (Sage, 2014). Email: tajhashmi@gmail.com

http://www.countercurrents.org/hashmi120316.htm



 


 




__._,_.___

Posted by: SyedAslam <Syed.Aslam3@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] What is God? Funny definition from an Indian yogi/mystic





__._,_.___

Posted by: Shah DeEldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} RE: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Bdesh's National Anthem



"A national anthem is not to be determined by its musical excellence alone,  which is at best secondary. Any text can be set to music."

Mr. Genius, I bet, you never wrote a single scholarly article or thesis about the critical wordings of a perfect national anthem? Even Americans and Europeans might benefit from such critical article and be prompted to change the wordings of their poorly worded anthems too? Write something concrete and publish for the public before you go against Tagore's wordings. What makes you so upset with Tagore's wordings that our intellectuals missed in 1971? Because he was a 'malaun' (your favorite chanting word)? Did not wear a topee like you? Spell it out honestly!

Tagore is the Daddy of Bangla literature. If you did not know the fact already, read him! It will free you from your chronic dwarfism. Without his words and music, many Khans would still be in the trees with their tails attached to the branches.

If somebody's age your problem, then a forty five years old Bangladesh should be your main concern. She has grown up and does not need a new anthem! Not from some halfwit mediocre BNP/Jamat cadre!



On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 2:21 PM, Jalal Uddin Khan <jukhan@gmail.com> wrote:

Forida Mojid is getting more foolish, peevish and womanish as she is getting more and more oldish. Like a gopali gondola, she is worked by only one oar.  Your musical sense is too coarse and uncouth to improve. A national anthem is not to be determined by its musical excellence alone,  which is at best secondary. Any text can be set to music. In your myopic thinking, if the music is the only criterion, then go and choose one of the best songs of which there are myriads. Counter the 6 points I raised in my post on March 9 and my other friends raised in their posts.




__._,_.___

Posted by: Shah DeEldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} RE: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Bdesh's National Anthem



"why not abandon the old, dying identity of Bengali nationalism for the emerging entity of a Bangladeshi nationalism?" - Abid Bahar


What do I hear from someone, who claims to be a freedom fighter? It's hard to get off one's own color. 
I don't believe, a true freedom fighters would ever think Bangalee-nationalism is dying in Bangladesh. Because – the dream of an independent nation for Bangalees initivated the fight for the independence. That's a fact.  
I know, other ethnic communities, beside the Bangalee, live in Banglsh, who were in favor of independence, unlike millions of Bangalee Pakistani-collaborators, who directly opposed national independence.
So, in my view, preserving the rights of those ethnic minorities should have priority over the rights of those who opposed independence.
Now, those who are saying Bangalee-nationalism is dying in Bangladesh, are also saying they want to be recognized as Bangladeshi, which defines their residency, but eliminates the historical fight for an independent nation for Bangalees; may be - that's the goal behind this group movement.
Jiten Roy




 
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2016 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} RE: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Bdesh's National Anthem

 
Captain a-hole, not sure how much human excrement you got in your captain's head? Read Bahar's thread/post before you open your rear end. We are talking about sanctity of national anthem. Comprende? 

On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 10:17 AM, 'Razzak Syed' via Bangladesh Progressives <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Indian dalals are busy on diverting the attention of the forum. Billions dollars syphenned from reserve bank, bastards keeping quiet.

Capt. Razzak A. Syed


Sent from my iPhone


On 13 Mar 2016, at 01:52, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:

I am sure, a petty Jamat cadre really understands the sanctity of Bangladeshi independence and its national anthem?? Are we talking about 'Pak sar zamin' or 'Sonar Bangla'?

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."


On Saturday, March 12, 2016 9:02 AM, "Abid Bahar abid.bahar@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Act like a bir (heroe)  with unnoto momosher.

It's not the "Hindu poet" thing stupid! It is the sanctity of the national anthem of a nation that we are dealing with. When on the Bangladesh flag the sun signifies the rising star, why not abandon the old, dying identity of Bengali nationalism for the emerging entity of a Bangladeshi nationalism? 
To the hardcore BKSALI confused people, you only know how to be abusive to the people with different views calling them as the mulla and jamatis- as if India bought your head and heart. We are asking people to act like a bir (heroe)  with unnoto momosher. 
Mind you, in his latter years, Tagore hated people like you and himself abandoned his commitment to Bengali nationalism and showed his allegiance for Indian nationalism.

 

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 12:26 AM, Khoniker Othithee <khoniker.othithee@yahoo.com> wrote:
Transcript of agartala trial could be the best public source of any Bagladesh flag design before 1969.

Come to think of it, military person stationed in w Pak were not so shy about griping about the lack of investment in military and industries in then east Pak , right after the 65 war. And saw the remedy as nothing short of Independence; didn't think of flag. One of biggest rationale for independent BD was revenue from jute, which was believed to be biggest foreign exchange earners but beneficiaries was Panjub and Karachi, it was frequently discussed in Bengali military family gathering after the war. These guy were ready to risk their neck
didnt think of flag for the nation they wanted badly wanted.

I faintly remember , on my home from school learned that sergeant zahirul huq tortured to death for his contribution in the design of the flag, I also remember then Lt col Mustafiz, Lt col Naimul islam and captain khurshid of their vision of Bagladesh as another rising sunin the east like japan. Lt cmdr Moazem was killed onmarch 26th 71 at his elephant residence, and Naimul Islam killed few days later, he happened to be Gen Zia's maternal uncle. I strongly believe Agartala trial had significant role in building a significant role. If you means dig into history of Zahirul Huq hall of Dacca University and o the personnn it is named after. Of they didnt had press releases or conferences for obvious reason.

For all those skeptics, who are not convinced that Japan was not the aspiration for BD flag, tell any 2 natioal flags that differ only in background color.



--
Disclaimer: All content provided on this discussion forum is for informational purposes only. The owner of this forum makes no representations as to the accuracy or completeness of any information on this site or found by following any link on this site. The owner will not be liable for any errors or omissions in this information nor for the availability of this information. The owner will not be liable for any losses, injuries, or damages from the display or use of this information.
This policy is subject to change at anytime.

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bangladesh Progressives" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bangladesh-progressives+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.





__._,_.___

Posted by: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} RE: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Bdesh's National Anthem



I just checked my archives and confirmed the fact that this Jalal Uddin has nothing better to do other than attack the Bangladesh National Anthem every 2 or 3 years.  What I wrote then in response to his idiotic comments >>>


Farida Majid
Thu 1/26/2012 6:34 AM
          
            Whoever is this fool, one thing for sure he has no musical background. Bangladesh's National Anthem has been chosen as the 10 most beautiful national anthems in the world by a music expert and journalist, Alex Marshall, in the newspaper The Guardian in 2008 during the Summer Olympic in Beijing. [I will post a url link for the article in another post]

        One hundred years ago the renowned American poet Ezra Pound heard Rabindranath sing this song in 1912 in London. Obviously Rabindranath loved the baul tune to which he set the simple words. He could have sung any of his own compositions. But he chose to sing the Golden Bengal.  Ezra Pound thought the "Golden Bengal" was a great song with its "minor"(scale) or 'komal' tones appeal and still having enough power to arouse people.


             This moron has no feeling for our own Bangla village or folk culture, nor for our typical landscape. He does not know that he is spewing lies, or perhaps he is knowingly spreading untruths. He is exercising his power of prejudice, nothing more.

<< 1. The song is by no means an extraordinarily great one, whether aesthetically or spiritually. By no account, whether style or content, it is unique or distinguished. There is no underlying depth of meaning nor is it written in an exalted public voice, as is the case with many other national anthems around the world. Like many other Tagore poems, it is just a simple reflective nature poem in a conventional style of langurous inward bent. >>

          Baul songs are composed in the rhythm of walking or ambling.  Why must we, a peace-loving nation, have a marching band type of music as our anthem as if we are ready to attack and fight enemies? Didn't we just reject 'Pak shar jamin shad baad' sung with trombones, bagpipes and kettle drums (musical instruments foreign to our culture)? (Though harmoniums are foreign too, they have been domesticated in Bengal and plays comfortably with flutes, dotara and tabla).  Marching band-type national anthems are so stupid and boring that people from those countries who have that type of anthems are saying that they wish they had something in the walking rhythm type mode like the Golden Bengal as their own anthem.

          This is 21st century, and we would like to think that 20th century, the bloodiest century in the history of man, is behind us.

          Farida Majid
 


          "People know what a national anthem is supposed to sound like - a western military march - so they make sure theirs sounds the same", says Alex Marshall.  According to him, therefore, "there are a handful of anthems that do stand out - either because they use non-western instruments, scales and tunes, or because they take a western anthem and then toy with it, making it solemn or funny, and entirely their own".
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/aug/11/olympics2008

www.guardian.co.uk
Alex Marshall found the best of the 205 national anthems we could hear at the Olympics
 
 
Bangladesh: My Golden Bengal
 
A wonderful anthem that sounds like it was written for a stroll along the Seine. It really needs Jacques Brel*. Which is probably not what composer Rabindranath Tagore had in mind.
 
         By the most amazing coincidence, that is exactly what Rabindranath had in mind -- the melody of a song of a wondering ministrel  --ami kothay pabo tare, amar moner manush je re.  How uncanny of Alex Marshall to have had that gut feeling! 
 
          I wish the people of Bangladesh knew how lucky they are to have an extraordinarily beautiful National Anthem that is going be a more and more appropriate song for a peaceful and prosperous Bangladesh for the coming centuries.

FARIDA MAJID

       A note on Jacques Brel (1929-1978).  He was a Belgian born French singer-songwriter who began his early artistic life as a troubadour with his guitar. That image of him is not far from him being a "baul" in spirit.  His performances in cabarets and small theatres in Paris and other cities became hugely popular, and his thoughtful, literate songs were being translated and sung by famous artists in Europe and America. His records sold in millions and there was a successful Broadway revue of his work, Jacques Brel is Alive and Well and Living in Paris, that had a long run, and is currently getting ready for a re-run on Broadway. 
 




From: Shah DeEldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2016 10:24 PM
To: bangladesh-progressives googlegroups; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Razzak Syed; pfc-friends@googlegroups.com; zainul abedin; Jalal Uddin Khan; Zahidul Hassan; Zoglul Zoglul; mgani69@gmail.com; S Akhter; Muazzam Kazi; Rezaul Karim; Dr. Farida Hossain; bd mailer Isha Khan; Mina Farah; Javed Helali; Khalifa Malik; MBI Munshi; noa@agni.com; qamruddin chowdhury; Quazi Nuruzzaman; Mohammed Shoaib; Seraju Islam Sabuj; Hussain Suhrawardy; Mohammad Aleem; Farida Majid; Siddique Major; Nazda Alam; Mohamed Nazir; Azad Khan; Nazda; Rownak Shahriar; tanvirnowaz@yahoo.com; Muhammad Ahmed; Atiqur Rahman Salu; syed haque; Syeda Hasan; Syed Margoob; kazimsislam@yahoo.com; anis.ahmed; Tareque Ahmed; Farzana Ahmed; Dr. Jamir Chowdhury; Nurul Bachchu; Dr.Gholam Mostofa; Baman Das; Khondkar_Karim@uml.edu; Dr. Em Pannah; Golam Akhter; Iqbal Yousuf; Asiful Islam; Khondkar Saleque; Osman Gani; Osman Gani; quamrul hassan; Mahbubur Rahman; Md Uddin; Bazlul Wahab; la-discussion@googlegroups.com; Nuran Nabi; MuktoChinta@yahoogroups.com; Shah Deeldar
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: {PFC-Friends} RE: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Bdesh's National Anthem
 
Captain a-hole, not sure how much human excrement you got in your captain's head? Read Bahar's thread/post before you open your rear end. We are talking about sanctity of national anthem. Comprende? 

On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 10:17 AM, 'Razzak Syed' via Bangladesh Progressives <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Indian dalals are busy on diverting the attention of the forum. Billions dollars syphenned from reserve bank, bastards keeping quiet.

Capt. Razzak A. Syed


Sent from my iPhone


On 13 Mar 2016, at 01:52, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:

I am sure, a petty Jamat cadre really understands the sanctity of Bangladeshi independence and its national anthem?? Are we talking about 'Pak sar zamin' or 'Sonar Bangla'?

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."


On Saturday, March 12, 2016 9:02 AM, "Abid Bahar abid.bahar@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Act like a bir (heroe)  with unnoto momosher.

It's not the "Hindu poet" thing stupid! It is the sanctity of the national anthem of a nation that we are dealing with. When on the Bangladesh flag the sun signifies the rising star, why not abandon the old, dying identity of Bengali nationalism for the emerging entity of a Bangladeshi nationalism? 
To the hardcore BKSALI confused people, you only know how to be abusive to the people with different views calling them as the mulla and jamatis- as if India bought your head and heart. We are asking people to act like a bir (heroe)  with unnoto momosher. 
Mind you, in his latter years, Tagore hated people like you and himself abandoned his commitment to Bengali nationalism and showed his allegiance for Indian nationalism.

 

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 12:26 AM, Khoniker Othithee <khoniker.othithee@yahoo.com> wrote:
Transcript of agartala trial could be the best public source of any Bagladesh flag design before 1969.

Come to think of it, military person stationed in w Pak were not so shy about griping about the lack of investment in military and industries in then east Pak , right after the 65 war. And saw the remedy as nothing short of Independence; didn't think of flag. One of biggest rationale for independent BD was revenue from jute, which was believed to be biggest foreign exchange earners but beneficiaries was Panjub and Karachi, it was frequently discussed in Bengali military family gathering after the war. These guy were ready to risk their neck
didnt think of flag for the nation they wanted badly wanted.

I faintly remember , on my home from school learned that sergeant zahirul huq tortured to death for his contribution in the design of the flag, I also remember then Lt col Mustafiz, Lt col Naimul islam and captain khurshid of their vision of Bagladesh as another rising sunin the east like japan. Lt cmdr Moazem was killed onmarch 26th 71 at his elephant residence, and Naimul Islam killed few days later, he happened to be Gen Zia's maternal uncle. I strongly believe Agartala trial had significant role in building a significant role. If you means dig into history of Zahirul Huq hall of Dacca University and o the personnn it is named after. Of they didnt had press releases or conferences for obvious reason.

For all those skeptics, who are not convinced that Japan was not the aspiration for BD flag, tell any 2 natioal flags that differ only in background color.


I am assuming, Quamrul was a great painter ( I am not great of judge of painting, but my teenage throb was small time trained painter) but nothing in the flag tells that it can only be the work of a great artist. often the national flag is simple and take inspiration from other; checkout the flag of South Korea, Japan USA, Malaysia, Australia , New Zealand, you will know what I am talking about. Some claim it for historical reason, but that doesnt explain malasia and US flag resemblance. Quamrul might had certify the flag but not the original flag, probably picked up the shades of green and red.

To those who are contemplating to compose a new national anthem, do something tangible improve the lives of people, not just feel good crap. There is old saying in our village, when men has has time to spare, they likely do something like weaving pouch for other man testicle to destroy the peace. Designated author shahadat may have all the time for weaving pouch for all katmullahs testicle and anthem. I hope he fares better then shamsur rahman, who was designated by then governor of E pakitan, to compose rabindrashangeet because he didn't want to hear hindu tagore's ranbindroshangget. To Ranu51, yes you are right, there is a subliminal message in the song amar sonar bangla, which is called bengali nationalism. Does Benglai nationalism offend you.


On Sunday, March 6, 2016 8:00 PM, Abid Bahar <abid.bahar@gmail.com> wrote:


BD INTERNATIONAL NATIONAL ANTHEM  REFORM MOVEMENT PARISHED

I would like to propose our respected professor Jalal Uddin Khan (PhD, English) to be the convenor/ Chairman of the Parished
I also like to propose A Akter to be the honorable secretary
Zoglul Hossain as the Senior vice president
Ranu Chowdhury as the vice president
Mohamed Gani as the vice President
Zainul Abedin as the organizing secretary
We have to have permission from all of them to confirm the comittee, followed by adding many more  names in the national and regional committees/ and in educational institutions.


This could be a similar movement we have going on in Canada and internationally about the model UN. The proposed reform movement can move step by step to make people aware of the anthem to bring the needed changes. 

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 2:34 PM, RANU CHOWDHURY <ranu51@hotmail.com> wrote:
"National Anthem Reform Movement" or 'Bangladesh National Anthem Porishod'
are good ideas.

> Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 18:10:29 +0000
> From: nabdc@googlegroups.com
> To: jukhan@gmail.com; abid.bahar@gmail.com
> CC: zahidhassan_2000@yahoo.com; rashedanam1971@gmail.com; zoglul@hotmail.co.uk; ranu51@hotmail.com; mgani69@gmail.com; sakhter1015@gmail.com; kazi4986@yahoo.com; rezaulkarim617@gmail.com; zainul321@yahoo.com; druhfarida@gmail.com; bdmailer@gmail.com; farahmina@gmail.com; jhelali2000@yahoo.com; kmamalik15@gmail.com; mbimunshi@gmail.com; noa@agni.com; qamruddinc@yahoo.com; quazinuru@yahoo.com; shoaib187@yahoo.com; serajul7@gmail.com; shahadathussaini@hotmail.com; aleem53@yahoo.com; farida_majid@hotmail.com; siddiquelondonuk@gmail.com; nazdakalam@gmail.com; nazir0101@gmail.com; azadcop@yahoo.com; alamnazdak@comcast.net; rms34@hotmail.com; tanvirnowaz@yahoo.com; msahmed21@yahoo.co.uk; mfariha123@aol.com; amsmel@aol.com; syedhaque@hotmail.com; poplu@hotmail.com; smargoob@yahoo.com; kazimsislam@yahoo.com; anis.ahmed@netzero.net; tareque7@gmail.com; nabdc@googlegroups.com; farzana.ahmed48@yahoo.com; americamyland@gmail.com; bachchuhaq13@yahoo.com; mostofadrgholam@gmail.com; bamandas_basu@yahoo.com; Khondkar_Karim@uml.edu; em.pannah@americatech.us; akhtergolam@gmail.com; iqbalyousuf1@yahoo.com; asifuli@gmail.com; khondkar.saleque@gmail.com; khoniker.othithee@yahoo.com; mo.gani@hotmail.com; osmangani@gmail.com; quamrul.hassan01@gmail.com; apurba01@gmail.com; md.uddin@comcast.net; bazlul@yahoo.com; pfc-friends@googlegroups.com; la-discussion@googlegroups.com; nurannabi@gmail.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; muktochinta@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Bdesh's National Anthem
>
> Salam,
>
> Yes, we need a "firmer" decision toward actions.
>
> Zainul
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 3/6/16, Abid Bahar <abid.bahar@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: {NA Bangladeshi Community} Bdesh's National Anthem
> To: "Jalal Uddin Khan" <jukhan@gmail.com>
> Cc: "Zahidul Hassan" <zahidhassan_2000@yahoo.com>, "rashed Anam" <rashedanam1971@gmail.com>, "Zoglul Zoglul" <zoglul@hotmail.co.uk>, "RANU CHOWDHURY" <ranu51@hotmail.com>, "mgani69@gmail.com" <mgani69@gmail.com>, "S Akhter" <sakhter1015@gmail.com>, "Muazzam Kazi" <kazi4986@yahoo.com>, "Rezaul Karim" <rezaulkarim617@gmail.com>, "zainul abedin" <zainul321@yahoo.com>, "Farida Hossain" <druhfarida@gmail.com>, "Isha Khan" <bdmailer@gmail.com>, "Mina Farah" <farahmina@gmail.com>, "Javed Helali" <jhelali2000@yahoo.com>, "Khalifa Malik" <kmamalik15@gmail.com>, "MBI Munshi" <mbimunshi@gmail.com>, "noa@agni.com" <noa@agni.com>, "qamruddin chowdhury" <qamruddinc@yahoo.com>, "Quazi Nuruzzaman" <quazinuru@yahoo.com>, "Mohammed Shoaib" <shoaib187@yahoo.com>, "Serajul Islam" <serajul7@gmail.com>, "Hussain Suhrawardy" <shahadathussaini@hotmail.com>, "Mohammad Aleem" <aleem53@yahoo.com>, "Farida Majid" <farida_majid@hotmail.com>, "Syed Siddique" <siddiquelondonuk@gmail.com>, "Nazda Alam" <nazdakalam@gmail.com>, "Mohamed Nazir" <nazir0101@gmail.com>, "Azad Khan" <azadcop@yahoo.com>, "Nazda" <alamnazdak@comcast.net>, "Rownak Shahriar" <rms34@hotmail.com>, "tanvirnowaz@yahoo.com" <tanvirnowaz@yahoo.com>, "Muhammad Ahmed" <msahmed21@yahoo.co.uk>, "Atiqur Rahman Salu" <mfariha123@aol.com>, "Sameer Syed" <amsmel@aol.com>, "syed haque" <syedhaque@hotmail.com>, "Syeda Hasan" <poplu@hotmail.com>, "Syed Margoob" <smargoob@yahoo.com>, "kazimsislam@yahoo.com" <kazimsislam@yahoo.com>, "anis.ahmed" <anis.ahmed@netzero.net>, "Tareque Ahmed" <tareque7@gmail.com>, "nabdc group" <nabdc@googlegroups.com>, "Farzana Ahmed" <farzana.ahmed48@yahoo.com>, "Dr. Jamir Chowdhury" <americamyland@gmail.com>, "Nurul Bachchu" <bachchuhaq13@yahoo.com>, "Dr.Gholam Mostofa" <mostofadrgholam@gmail.com>, "Baman Das" <bamandas_basu@yahoo.com>, "Khondkar_Karim@uml.edu" <Khondkar_Karim@uml.edu>, "Dr. Em Pannah" <em.pannah@americatech.us>, "Golam Akhter" <akhtergolam@gmail.com>, "Iqbal Yousuf" <iqbalyousuf1@yahoo.com>, "Asiful Islam" <asifuli@gmail.com>, "Khondkar Saleque" <khondkar.saleque@gmail.com>, "Khoniker Othithee" <khoniker.othithee@yahoo.com>, "Osman Gani" <mo.gani@hotmail.com>, "Osman Gani" <osmangani@gmail.com>, "quamrul hassan" <quamrul.hassan01@gmail.com>, "Mahbubur Rahman" <apurba01@gmail.com>, "Md Uddin" <md.uddin@comcast.net>, "Bazlul Wahab" <bazlul@yahoo.com>, "pfc-friends@googlegroups.com" <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com>, "la-discussion@googlegroups.com" <la-discussion@googlegroups.com>, "Nuran Nabi" <nurannabi@gmail.com>, "mukto-mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>, "MuktoChinta@yahoogroups.com" <muktochinta@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sunday, March 6, 2016, 9:53 AM
>
> NATINAL ANTHEM REFORM MOVEMENT
> As if like the  Bangla Vasha
> Songram.Porishad of the 50's was formed to implement
> Bangla as our language, we can also start a national anthem
> reform movement porished to implement the anthem of
> Bangladesh.  
> (1)
> The first step in this direction is to make people
> conscious of the anomalies with the present state of the
> anthem(2) Second step could be to ask for
> submission of songs or suggestion for the reform of
> Tagore's present song/ anthem.
> (3) Personally, I would say that
> instead of changing the present song completely, we can
> reform it by adding the word Bangladesh and injecting some
> spirit into it. Both USA and Canada made reforms in their
> original anthem to accommodate the country's state of
> existence.
> Surely, the
> Mujibbadi indian puppet dada and sinduri didis are going to
> vehemently oppose it. To them the plagiarism/ cheating by
> Tagore is forgivable because he was a god to them. To my
> knowledge, (most teachers would know) we expel students from
> educational institutions for this type of offensive. In the
> academic circle, this is considered as a criminal offence.
> Surely, Tagor's criminality in this composure
> shouldn't be carried as a burden by  the
> entire nation. True, we shouldn't be standing up to
> show respect to a an article of theft. 
> Finally, this issue has been in
> discussion for quite sometime but no nationwide initiative
> has been taken yet to reform the anthem. At this stage,
> forming a nationwide Anthem Reform Movement Parished should
> be the way to go. This should be organized by an ANTHAM
> REFORM MOMENT CENTRAL COMMITTEE to repeatedly raise the
> issue to both Awami and BNP led governments. Awamis as
> fascists generally are very stubborn people, but to succeed
> in bringing progressive changes, people have to be more
> stubborn then them.    
> On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 3:25
> AM, Jalal Uddin Khan <jukhan@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> No problem as we all agree that this Amar Sonar B
> should not have been chosen as the national anthem of Bdesh.
> The only difference is that while the issue of derivation in
> terms of tune and text is very serious to you, Dr. Rashed,
> it is not so to me, given the fact that Tagore was one of
> the greatest poets by his own merit and talent. However, I
> mentioned 6 reasons against Amar Sonar B in my writing. If
> the derivation or the borrowing or the imitation thing is
> included (which I would not include with prominence), the
> number would be 7. I cannot agree with Mr Zahidul H's
> suggestion because Chol Chol Chol Urdho Gogone Baje Matol is
> only a martial/military song covering only one side, one
> element. A national anthem should more importantly cover
> other things in terms of noble and lofty patriotism and love
> and attachment to the soil, connected with its birth in a
> profoundly heightened and generalized manner. "As a suggestion, Talim Hussein's
> extremely cute
> and appropriately short and simple 8-line lyric, Shwadhin
> Bangladesh—concise
> yet powerful and forceful and resonant with the repetition
> of "Bangladesh" in a
> beautiful refrain—may very well come into the picture for
> consideration.
> Although Gazi Mazharul Anwar's Prothom Bangladesh Amar
> Shesh Bangladesh,
> distinguished for its superb lyrics, could be a great
> candidate, it will
> for sure be opposed by the Awami League for its long
> association with the BNP."  
> On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 4:15
> AM, Zahidul Hassan <zahidhassan_2000@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> I
> have said to many of friends  nation anthem should be
> something like " Chol, Chol, Chol" and not the
> bhalobashar gajakhori.
> WasSalam,Zahid
> - Opu
>
>
> On Saturday,
> March 5, 2016 4:26 PM, rashed Anam <rashedanam1971@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Dr. Khan,
> Having agreed all you've said, I
> think my posts are in congruent with central premise, as I
> too have mentioned that millions of people do these sort of
> plagiarism, influenced writing, singing etc.  My arguments
> vary in two distinct points: 
>
> 1) Knowing how deeply similar tune the
> 'Amar Sonar Bangla' is to the tune and style of
> 'Ami khothai Pabo Tare', the song can not be
> characterized as an original one.
>
> 2) Knowing national anthem being so
> sacred to the spirit of the nation, it should not be a 2nd
> rated/coped/plagiarized/influenced one. The national anthem
> should only   original in its spirit, in its tune and
> lyrical substance. Obviously the 'Amar Sonar Bangla'
> failed to uphold that lofty goal.
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 5,
> 2016 at 11:55 AM, Jalal Uddin Khan <jukhan@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> Thanks, Dr. Rashed. In my article I made six
> detailed and concrete arguments against Amar Sonar B not
> deserving the status of the national anthem of Bdesh. The
> first version of my article was published about 20 years
> ago, then slightly revised versions at different times.
> However, the matter of "plagiarism" was not one of
> the six points I made. It was only mentioned in passing. The
> reason is that it is a common practice that poets and
> writers, major or minor, big or small, from Shakespeare to T
> S Eliot, do sometimes imitate, emulate, borrow, re-do,
> refashion and recreate other poets' or writers'
> themes, ideas, form and style in their own works as they
> struggle to be themselves and to find their own voice. That
> is why there is the modern literary theory of the burden of
> the past or the anxiety of influence. Those borrowings or
> stealings, so long as they are given a creative treatment to
> be made their own, integrated in their own way, are not
> taken very seriously. I think that is what has happened in
> the case of Tagore. Thanks for all the other information.  
>  
> On Sat, Mar 5,
> 2016 at 8:18 PM, rashed Anam <rashedanam1971@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> Thank you Dr. Jalal Uddin Khan for
> your informative post.
>
> With regards to Tagore's plagiarizing
> of 'Amar Sonar Bangla'  from 'Ami khothai pabo
> tare',  does admittance of plagiarizing inoculate it
> from the offense itself? Does it make the plagiarizing
> vanish in the ether?  Or does it sanitize and water down
> the plagiarizing?  
>
> If you listen to the tune, it is almost 
> 1-1 match. The lyrics like 'Mori hai..." are carbon
> copies.  The evidence of the song 'Ami kothai pabo
> tare'  was too strong for Tagore to out right deny it.
> He had to admit it. But remember he admitted it after 5/6
> years.  The 'amar sonar bangla' was written around
> 1905 and Tagore admitted it in 1914, after about 9 years
> when the controversy was  high and evidence was irrefutable
> about it. Tagore wrote an article title 'postman'
> (Harkara)  about it admitting about it and on Baul songs.
> Actually the famed Mr. Shottajir Roy made a movie called
> 'Postman' on the life of Gagan Harkara.
>
> Just as a alleged
> thief's admittance of his theft does not make the
> original offense of theft non-existent or go away, a
> plagiarizer's plagiarizing does not become non-existent
> upon his admittance or sugar coating or sanitizing of it.
> The tune is too similar to 'ami kothai pabo tare'
> for it to be considered an original song. There is nothing
> wrong to copy or heavily mimic other song. There are
> millions of such songs and by famous song writers. But the
> issue is about trying to sell it as epic, as original, or
> praise worthy.  To do so would be mis-characterizing it and
> also robbing the original song writer/singer Gagan Harkara
> of the credit .
>
>
> The
> question remains, how can a plagiarized or mimic song
> 'amar sonar bangla' be a national anthem of any
> country?? A national Anthem is very sacred. It has to be
> original at least for it to be considered sacred. It cannot
> be a coped version of someone else song.  
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaFetWNuaoE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> You received this message because you had subscribed to the
> Google Groups "North America Bangladeshi Community
> forum". Any posting to this group is solely the opinion
> of the author of the messages to nabdc@googlegroups.com
> who is responsible for the accuracy of his/her information
> and the conformance of his/her material with applicable
> copyright and other laws where applicable. The act of
> posting to the group indicates the subscriber's
> agreement to accept the adjudications of the moderator(s).
> To post to this group, send email to nabdc@googlegroups.com.
>
> ---
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google Groups "North America Bangladeshi
> Community" group.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
> from it, send an email to nabdc+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/nabdc.
>
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you had subscribed to the Google Groups "North America Bangladeshi Community forum". Any posting to this group is solely the opinion of the author of the messages to nabdc@googlegroups.com who is responsible for the accuracy of his/her information and the conformance of his/her material with applicable copyright and other laws where applicable. The act of posting to the group indicates the subscriber's agreement to accept the adjudications of the moderator(s). To post to this group, send email to nabdc@googlegroups.com.
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "North America Bangladeshi Community" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nabdc+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/nabdc.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PFC-Friends" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pfc-friends+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.






--
--
Disclaimer: All content provided on this discussion forum is for informational purposes only. The owner of this forum makes no representations as to the accuracy or completeness of any information on this site or found by following any link on this site. The owner will not be liable for any errors or omissions in this information nor for the availability of this information. The owner will not be liable for any losses, injuries, or damages from the display or use of this information.
This policy is subject to change at anytime.

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bangladesh Progressives" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bangladesh-progressives+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



__._,_.___

Posted by: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___