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Monday, January 9, 2012

Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Pope Says Liberal family values threaten humanity: Corrective Steps Are Needed



The Pope is even more foolish than Mullah Hannan!!!

On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 7:04 AM, S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com> wrote:
 

 

 

 

Pope Says Liberal family values threaten humanity: Corrective Steps Are Needed

 

 

Afp has reported from , Vatican City that Pope Benedict XVI yesterday warned that liberal family values were threatening the future of humanity, in a veiled reference to homosexual marriage and adoptions by gay couples."Policies which undermine the family threaten human dignity and the future of humanity itself," the pontiff said in a speech at the Vatican."The family, based on the marriage of a man and a woman ... is not a simple social convention, but rather the fundamental cell of every society," added the 84-year-old pope.

 

We believe Pope has voiced the concern of all religions, not only Christianity. The humanity is suffering from direct or indirect destruction of family. Atheism and Marxism have laid the foundations of destruction of family. Marxism wanted to create communes where men and women will live together without marriage and children will be state or commonm property.Secularism which is a product of atheism and enlightenment value of naturalism ( that everything has happened naturally, there is no need of a Creator) has strengthened this desrtructive tendency. In these ideologies man is just like another animal. As other animals do not have family, so there is no need for family. They can have all types of relations.We know the result in the West and also East .This has to be reversed. The family has to be strengthened .Moral values have to be strengthened.Only religions can save humanity from all these evils.

 




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Re: [mukto-mona] Islam and Modern age



You have ocean deep ignorance. Mr. Rahman.  Read Al -Biruni on the subject, even 'A History of God' by Karen Armstrong would suffice.  Sufism is older than David, not to speak of your prophet.  A half baked mullah like you may refer to other half baked mullahs, that won't change the truth.

On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 12:13 AM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 

Member Das,

Your response is either comes from ignorance or comes from a sick place (Similar to those who feed beef to Hindus!). I do not know. Let me get some facts straight.

Sufism is very much part of Islam. Followers of Sufism are the one who brought Islam to south Asian and to Malaysia/Indonesia religion. It is a inward looking way of practicing faith. Click here to read about how to come to Sufism.


A great scholar name Shaykh Fadhlalla Haeri wrote a nice book for basic understanding about Sufism. I have it in my collection and none of them have anything to do with "Cult of Sophia". Also there is NOTHING in Islam which teaches us to say accept it or die!!

One of the best example of that is Muslims ruled the greater India (Well they defined the term "Greater India" as well) around 1000 years BUT majority of population remained Hindus (Around 84% of them) after it came to an end. If Islam taught us to force people to convert into Islam, I do not think you would have seen such a large Hindu population in India. ALSO do remember that, Hindus pushed Buddhist people to corners of India and far east. Albeit eastern India was the birth place of Buddhism. Also Christians ruled the south Indian state like Goa for much shorter time but they were able to convert majority to Christianity. Which shows they were not as open as Muslims when religious diversity is concern. It seems like your comments like " You either accept it's superiority or face the sword and other lethal weapons. " speaks more about myth about Islam (Among ignorant non-Muslims) than facts on hand. If some idiots tried to "Convert" someone by deceiving him/her, that is NOT accepted in the religion of Islam ( Source: Al Qur'an 2:256, 5:8,109,3:20).


Let me share some of the actual verses of the Qur'an on this topic.

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (2:256)
So if they dispute with thee, say: "I have submitted My whole self to Allah and so have those who follow me." And say to the People of the Book and to those who are unlearned: "Do ye (also) submit yourselves?" If they do, they are in right guidance, but if they turn back, Thy duty is to convey the Message; and in Allah's sight are (all) His servants. (3:20)
And an entire chapter devoted to religious freedom:
Say: O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (Surah 109)

Therefore, no people of knowledge about basics of Islam would ever go and kill people just to convert them. Christians did that for centuries all over the world but as per history and scriptures of Islam, such methods are NOT accepted to our Creator!!

If anyone have questions or concerns about this topic, feel free to ask.

Shalom!

-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jan 9, 2012 8:59 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Islam and Modern age

 
Sufism is often mistaken as Islam.  It existed long before the advent of Islam, and was derived from the cult of Sophia, the goddess of wisdom.  Islam is salafism(wahabism), pure and simple.  You either accept it's superiority or face the sword and other lethal weapons. 

On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 2:06 PM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
  • First part of Engineer's article reminds me of the Sufi or Baul philosophy and Rabindranath's "religion of man" as well. The nature of religion discussed in this part is purely spiritualistic and hence innocent. Strong emphasis by the author on the positive role of a happy marriage between reason and faith can also be a welcome proposition by many. Analysis of the use of religion as a tool of exploitation by the religious leaders and establishments is also commendable. But by equally emphasizing on the potential role of a religion and its followers in establishing an exploitation free society, the author has indirectly and unconsciously preached a jihadi mantra. This mantra will encourage political religions. Although positive role of religion as a change agent is not very rare in the history of changes of societies, negative roles will far exceed the positive roles. In this sense Dr. Engineer's proposition is a dangerous one. In Engineer's model of socio-political change, secular forces will have minimum role. Eventually the widely abandoned principle of the separation of "church and state" will be revived.
  • Distinction between "faith" and "blind faith" is volatile. For a believer, concepts of God, gods, angels, and revelations are matters of faith; they are also matters of "blind faith" as it will be treated as irreligious to challenge these concepts with reason. Here comes the question of various levels of faith, highest level being a religious person's one-to-one communication or connection with God. This person will not mix religion with politics.
  • The use of the phrase "faith in a religion" along with "faith in an ism or a science" has been improper. Faith in a religion is in general blind although the faith can be pushed higher and higher by using reason. On the other hand one can have trust or confidence in a science or an ism. This trust or confidence is based on reason, theories, experiments, logic, etc. I hope this misplacement has not been an intellectual dishonesty on the part of Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer.     
  • Although Dr. Roy claims that his religious ideology is not biased by any religious ideology, he easily invokes the concepts of God and Karma. Dr. Roy has also used the word "faith" loosely.           


From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 7, 2012 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Islam and Modern age

 

It's a nicely written article. Everything author has said coincides with my belief. In fact, I have been preaching these messages for a while. By saying this, I am not trying to diminish author's intellectual prowess.  He is a superb secular religious scholar.  I am not. My religious ideology is based on my own observations and reasoning, not biased by any religious ideology. Unfortunately, author fell short in this regard. But, it's an mind-opening piece, nonetheless.
I believe - faith is the foundation of every step we take. Very first attempt of our every action begins with faith. So, no one can denounce his/her faith. In fact, the "Proton-Crusher" experiment at CERN to find the origin of the Universe is based on faith also. Trillions of dollars are invested on this faith. Faith is our integral part of our life. We can't denounce it even if we want to.
Now, blind-faith is a different story. It's the most dangerous practice of the most intelligent species on earth. We should be ashamed of it. It's the mother of all problems with religion. Where did it come from? It came from religious books, like Quran, Gita, Bible, Torah, etc. All religious books preach total surrender, without judgment or criticism. That's called "blind-faith." I know all preachers took advantage of it. Why not, if it works? Therefore, unlike the author, I blame religious books for this. These books are full of contradictions, and all criticisms of these books are forbidden by divine injunctions. If you believe in the absoluteness of these messages, we are not going anywhere. That's where I differ from the author.
Yes, religion has been reduced to an identifier of who we are. The truth is - we all fall into one of the religious cults, whether we actively follow or not.
However, Martin Luther's ideology is the best among the bunch, which advocates one to one relationship with God, without going through an agent. To achieve this goal, one does not need a religious identifier or a preacher. We are humans, and this is the only identifier we need.  You could say, how do we know – what to do to establish that relationship with God? I would answer that question with another question – how did scientists know what to do to achieve their objectives? They start with a hypothesis (faith), and then do experimentations with it. If it fails to bring intended result, they reject it, and try another one. That's the only way to find out the truth.
Good and bad Karmas are pretty well known and established through millions of years of experimentations with nature and reality. All we have to do now is to practice them. We don't need to read religious books to find them out. In fact, it is best not to read them at all, if you want to avoid confusion and misunderstanding. I know many will quote verses from here and there to disprove me. But, if you read the entire text you are bound to get confused at the end.
Jiten Roy
 
 

From: csss1 <csss2work@gmail.com>
To: muhammadkhalidmasud@hotmail.com; jih@vsnl.com; muhammed.behram@gmail.com; muhsin@jaffer.org; mujdeb@superonline.com; ideamumbai@yahoo.com; mujeeburrahmankinalur@hotmail.com; akmukadam@rediffmail.com; mukesh.khanna2@gmail.com; mukesheart@rediffmail.com; oxfamnag@nagpur.dot.net.in; mukta@riseup.net; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; mukul@hbfasia.org; mumbaipublicaffairs@state.gov; ifwukhan@bgl.vsnl.net.in; prof.dr.khan_kgn@vsnl.net; hgmat@vsnl.com; mumtu1@hotmail.com; baigmunawar@hotmail.com; humsab_india@hotmail.com; mkmuneer@niyamasabha.org; muneer.khalili@hotmail.com
Sent: Saturday, January 7, 2012 4:58 AM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Islam and Modern age

 
RELIGION AS FAITH AND RELIGION AS AN IDENTITY
 
Asghar Ali Engineer
 
(Islam and Modern Age, January 2012.)
 
What is religion? It is much misunderstood and complex. So many different factors are associated with it. Some people follow religions blindly, some reject it totally and some as a tool for their own interests and religion in history has often been used as most effective tool for grabbing power. Thus religion arouses very complex and contradictory sentiments. Theologians and religious leaders think it is most essential part of human life and condemn those who reject it.
 
Also, theologians and religious leaders maintain what they think and say is true religion and divine commands and all others must obey them unquestioningly and anyone who raises question or criticizes them must be ex-communicated in this life and will be condemned to hell in coming life wherein they will burn eternally. Thus wrath of theologians becomes divine wrath.
 
Religion as such creates complex forces and problems and if it becomes powerful establishment, it assumes even graver forms and then begins the politics to control the religious establishment. The priests, theologians and religious leaders behave as if they are politicians and legitimize their power by invoking God and persecute those who challenge their authority or understanding of religion.
 
It was struggle between Church and independent thinkers which caused much conflict and ultimately many independent thinkers rejected religious doctrines and also the concept of God. There were two types of revolts against religion and against religious establishment. Some independent thinkers who were studying universe, its origin and development found the church doctrines unscientific and unacceptable and hence rejected them. Many of them became atheists though not all.
 
Then persons like Martin Luther revolted against the established church and maintained that we don't need an agent between God and human being. Every human being can establish direct relationship with God. Every human being can understand Bible if it is in his/her language. Thus he translated the Bible into German so that all Germans can understand the Bible. The Church was not allowing the Bible to be translated from Latin into other languages.
 
Similarly at one time The Muslim theologians were not allowing Qur'an to be translated from Arabic into other languages and when Shah Waliyullah in 18th century translated it into Persian, his hand was dislocated so that he could not write. Similarly Brahmins did not allow Hindu scriptures like Vedas and Gita etc. to be translated from Sanskrit into people's languages. If religious scriptures were allowed to be translated they will lose their mystique and priests would lose their importance and prestige. Their importance could be maintained only if they were the interpreters of these scriptures.
 
However, today things are changing fast with spread of knowledge through latest means of communications. People are no more ignorant like in medieval ages. Today knowledge is within reach of all human beings and no more available only to the elite. The printing technology also has undergone revolution and books can be made available easily, even in electronic form.
 
The other groups i.e. one who was studying origin of universe had much more serious problems with religious leadership or theologians. These theologians hardly knew anything about the universe and its origin and interpreted what was stated in Bible or Qur'an on the basis of their ignorance rather than knowledge of external universe. The scientists, on the other hand, were observing the universe and constantly improved their instruments of observations and drew drastically different conclusions.
 
The priesthood, on the other hand, had based their opinions on Greek scientists and others and thought their opinions were divine in nature. It was because of such approach that they punished Galileo when he said that it is earth which goes round the Sun and not sun around the earth. Thus an artificial conflict developed between scientists and theologians and it is theologians who had to accept defeat.
 
Because of such conflict many great thinkers, writers and scientists like Einstein, Bertrand Russell, Stephen Hawking and so on, became skeptical about validity of theological conclusion. It is not business of theologians to talk about science unless they have thorough knowledge about it. Still there is great controversy about what is called creationism and evolution and theologians reject the concept of evolution as Bible or Qur'an refer to God's injunction "Be and it Became" and maintain one cannot challenge this Divine injunction.
 
But the real question is how to understand these divine words and whether as Sir Syed put it there cannot be contradiction between word of God and work of God; while Bible, Qur'an etc. are words of God, universe and its laws are work of God. One has to reconcile the two and while we study work of God through observations, we should understand word of God through appropriate interpretation.
 
Until yesterday theologians maintained that the Universe was few thousand years old but today scientists have concluded that our universe is 20 billion years old. Now science has so well developed that no theologian in his senses will challenge these conclusions of expert physicists etc. If they do it would be sheer theological and human arrogance and nothing else. Only way is to suitably interpret word of God.
 
II
 
RELIGION AND FAITH
 
In view of all these complex questions the key question is what is faith? Is faith, as rationalists and atheists maintain, always blind? Can it be rational and whether wherever there faith, there is religion or religion is necessarily based on blind faith? These are important question and must be dispassionately answered rising above ideological considerations. Both believers in religion as well as believers in rationalism often take extreme position with the result that objectivity suffers on both sides.
 
What is needed is a balanced point of view.  Both religion and science or religion and reason are essential part of human life. Faith in human life is as essential as reason. But due to human weakness while faith tends to become blind reason begins to be worshipped by rationalists. Both do not understand the limitation of faith and reason. Neither faith nor reason can ever be absolute.
 
Blind faith is blind first and faith later and something which is blind cannot see, much less understand anything. Qur'an calls knowledge as light and ignorance as darkness and urges upon us to acquire knowledge and liberate ourselves from darkness. Thus blind faith is always based on ignorance and amounts to grope in darkness. It is curse for humanity and since whole of medieval ages we based our beliefs on blind faith we remained ignorant about what is there out there. We could not understand the creation of one whom we worshipped and pretended to admire. We can admire the Creator only when we understand the wonderful creation that our universe is.
 
Thus blind faith leads us nowhere except in the blind fold of blind theologians and religious leaders who exploit us. However that does not mean faith is always blind as our rationalist friends maintain. Faith plays profound role in human life. Faith and love are two important pillars of our life and both provide us with positive creative passions and these passions provide us with energy that drives us forward. If I do not have faith life will be full of doubts and negative passions which will be destructive.
 
Doubt or scepticism is important in intellectual world as by doubting earlier propositions we go further and evolve new propositions. But doubt is spiritual world can be very negative and destructive. And would rob us of inner peace. While it is scepticism which is creative in the intellectual world, it is faith which is highly necessary for inner peace and stability in the spiritual world. Thus it is creative collaboration between faith and reason which makes us highly productive and dynamic.
 
Human life consists of both external and internal world and one without the other is incomplete. Reason is very necessary to know what is out there and faith is very necessary to know what is in here. In west today whole emphasis is on what is out there, on science, reason and material world. It makes human beings, as Herbert Marcuse calls it 'one dimensional human being. We all the time engage ourselves with the world out there leaving our inner world totally barren. It leads to many psychological crises.
 
Some people, on the other hand, lay all the emphasis on the inner world leaving us totally ignorant about the world out there. Without knowledge of external world out there we cannot improve our material life which is also essential part of our life. We have to deal with life as a whole, not with one part alone. We need both external dynamism and inner stability, we need external improvement and inner richness, thus we need both faith as well as reason, doubt as well as belief.
 
A productive personality in psychological terms, is product of inner profundity and stability. Only doubting intellect will make human being more destructive than productive. That is why in Qur'an there is so much emphasis on what is called iman which is roughly translated as faith. Faith gives inner satisfaction but blind faith on one hand, and faith without freedom to inquire is a barren faith, a serious obstacle for change and progress. Faith with right to freedom of inquiry is real and productive faith.
 
Once we acquire faith after critical inquiry, it becomes a dynamo for action. One cannot act without faith. Even Marxists act out of faith in Marxism. No action is possible without faith and any ideology without action is mere theory on paper. Marx also insisted that what is important is to change the world and world can be changed only if you act. Thus those who reject faith is throwing baby along with bath water. Doubting minds can never change the world.
 
What we have to reject is not faith per se but various accretions which keep on occurring from superstitious belies, cultural practices and external traditions and restore genuine faith after critical inquiry and only such a faith will become impetus for action. In fact one should be firmly rooted in ones faith. Iman, Qur'an says, is a great source of inner conviction and certitude. While doubt is alright for critical inquiry but certitude is must for action.
 
            
                                                                    III
FAITH AS AN IDENTITY
 
Faith becomes a problem when it is reduced to an identity rather than inner certitude. Faith becomes religion and religion creates a community with which believers identify. Religious community is invariably led by some leaders through an establishment and establishment has its own identity and power politics for control. The leaders are more interested in controlling establishment rather than keeping the faith alive and agent of change. Faith thus becomes mere formality.
 
The believer also find his/her own benefits in religion as an instrument of identification. 'I am a Muslim' or 'I am a Hindu' no more remains a statement of faith and action or a powerful factor for change in keeping with its principles and values but as an instrument of material benefits or control over establishment. I as a Muslim must get so much share in power or I as a Sunni or Shi'ah must control this or that establishment.
 
Faith is thus no more dynamo for action according to inner certitude but an instrument of controlling establishments. Thus a truly religious person or a faithful has to be subversive, subversive of establishment. All the Prophets challenged establishments of their time. Hazrat Ibrahim challenged Nimrud and Hazrat Musa Pharoah. Except two Prophets i.e. Dawood and Suleiman, of all the Prophets mentioned in the Qur'an, were from weaker sections of society and fought for the rights of weaker sections.
 
A person of faith creates new world which is just and compassionate and does not accept the world he/she inherits which is unjust and cruel and exploits weaker sections of society. Faith and hope become powerful instruments or one who seeks to change this world. And one who seeks to change the world also needs knowledge which helps in bringing about change.
 
Thus one has to decide whether one acquires faith as a powerful instrument for change or equally powerful instrument for controlling a establishment. Religious leaders generally oppose change as stagnant faith is helpful in retaining their leadership. The Qur'anic prayer "Lord increase me in knowledge" is very meaningful. It is ever increasing knowledge which keeps our faith alive and dynamic and enables believers to understand new mechanisms of exploitation by those who control establishment.
 
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was a great subverter of his time and successfully challenged the powerful establishment of powerful Meccan traders who were busy accumulating wealth neglecting truth, justice, compassion for the suffering of others and voiceless of Mecca had become more voiceless. The Prophet (PBUH) gave them a powerful voice with knowledge and made them aware of their rights and dignity.
 
Equipped with this knowledge and awareness of human dignity and equality and values of new faith Muslims brought a great revolution and the two most powerful but feudal empires i.e. the Roman and Sassanid Empires were swept away. But unfortunately soon Islam itself became a powerful empire first controlled by Umayyads and then by Abbasids and subsequently other smaller and regional empires and totally lost its vigour and dynamism.
 
The Islamic Shari'ah also became stagnant over period of time and lost its thrust for justice and powerful instrument of change. Instead, whatever earlier jurists had formulated became 'divine law' and began to be defended as 'divine' and 'immutable and cannot be changed until the Day of Judgment. With such stagnant attitude Islam became mere identity and its sects and sub-sects powerful establishments to be controlled by its respective leaders.
 
No wonder than Muslims who had once led the world in knowledge and advancement of several branches of science from medicine to astronomy to physics to mathematics were left far behind and its religious leaders began to denounce new inventions of science like the Catholic Church had done earlier. For them faith became now a mere identity and each sect of Islam began to defend its own identity in order to benefit from these sectarian establishments.
 
The Qur'an was also reduced to sectarian polemics and proving the other sect wrong instead of guidance for change and inspiration for creating a new world on the basis of values enshrined in the Qur'an. Otherwise Islam would be nothing more than conglomeration of various sects, each sect being a powerful establishment and leaders of these sects proving others wrong and deserve only hell.
 
I do not think with such attitude Muslims are ever going to contribute anything to the contemporary world and its progress. Earlier we change our view of Islam and its universal values, our faith will remain only an identity.
------------------------------------------------                        
 Institute of Islamic Studies,
Mumbai.
 








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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Pope Says Liberal family values threaten humanity: Corrective Steps Are Needed



I don't understand why Mr. Hannan is blaming atheism and Marxism for homosexual marriage and adoptions by couples! Are all the atheists and Marxists supporting and sponsoring these? Did (does) any communist country have any plan to make children common property of the state? Can Mr. hannan elaborate a little bit more on how secularism "has strengthened this destructive tendency?" I think without delving into the matter Mr. Hannan is for nothing putting all the blames on secularism for new family values. Any way, Mr. Hannan has forgot to mention that religions discriminate against women. Women are being liberated gradually because of the modern thoughts and enlightenment.   

From: S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
To: 'dahuk' <dahuk@yahoogroups.com>; khabor@yahoogroups.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; mahdiunite@yahoogroups.com; 'sahannan' <sahannan@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 9, 2012 7:04 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] FW: Pope Says Liberal family values threaten humanity: Corrective Steps Are Needed

 
 
 

 

Pope Says Liberal family values threaten humanity: Corrective Steps Are Needed

 
 
Afp has reported from , Vatican City that Pope Benedict XVI yesterday warned that liberal family values were threatening the future of humanity, in a veiled reference to homosexual marriage and adoptions by gay couples."Policies which undermine the family threaten human dignity and the future of humanity itself," the pontiff said in a speech at the Vatican ."The family, based on the marriage of a man and a woman ... is not a simple social convention, but rather the fundamental cell of every society," added the 84-year-old pope.
 
We believe Pope has voiced the concern of all religions, not only Christianity. The humanity is suffering from direct or indirect destruction of family. Atheism and Marxism have laid the foundations of destruction of family. Marxism wanted to create communes where men and women will live together without marriage and children will be state or commonm property.Secularism which is a product of atheism and enlightenment value of naturalism ( that everything has happened naturally, there is no need of a Creator) has strengthened this desrtructive tendency. In these ideologies man is just like another animal. As other animals do not have family, so there is no need for family. They can have all types of relations.We know the result in the West and also East .This has to be reversed. The family has to be strengthened .Moral values have to be strengthened.Only religions can save humanity from all these evils.
 




__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
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Re: [mukto-mona] সনাতনধর্মাবলম্বীদেরগো-মাংস সরবরাহকারীদেরবিরুদ্ধেব্যবস্থা নিন




The question is not that some Hindus eat beef or some Muslims eat pork, it is about whether you should trick or force someone to eat something to he/she does not want to eat. If you eat forbidden fruit willingly, good for you. It's your buisiness. But, if Hindus are fed beef without their knowledge, it's a criminal act. Dr. K. Das has raised an interesting point. If you turn the table, you do the math about what could happen to you.
 
Jiten Roy

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 9, 2012 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] সনাতনধর্মাবলম্বীদেরগো-মাংস সরবরাহকারীদেরবিরুদ্ধেব্যবস্থা নিন

 
I am used to taking both beef and pork.  The basic point is that if I poured a bowl of pork soup on the plate of any of my Muslim friend, I would probably need the security afforded to Salman Rushdie earlier.  By the way, during my stay in U. S. A., the only Hindu I met who did not eat beef came from a remote village.  I, for one, don't see any ban in Hindu scripture against eating beef; yet I demand better manners from my Muslim friends than force feeding people something they detest.

2012/1/8 subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
 
Taking revenge, making fun, feat of communalism, sense of majority, sense of superiority, etc. can be explaining factors. Many of them may not be communal acts at all. A professor (a hindu from West Bengal) invited his Ph.D student (a hindu from Bangladesh) for dinner and served him and his family beef. He even did not disclose that it was beef. Bangladeshi hindus are probably less open to "forbidden" foods than the WB hindus. The professor did not care. My atheist muslim friend made his newly married wife eat pork without letting her know that she was eating pork. For the last ten years or so, they are still happily married. In a social gathering when one hindu friend opined (probably jokingly) that onion and beef are equivalent and hence are forbidden, one doctor (orginally from Bangladesh) practcing in America said with strong conviction, "There is no difference between beef and mutton, although ethically it may be wrong to eat either meat." Beef eating hindus sometimes are found to encourage their religious or prejudiced hindu friends to eat beef by saying jokingly, "Come on, you will not lose your hinduism just by eating a burger!"
None of the examples given above involves any kind of hatred (rather their aims were enlightenement), although the the perpetrators may want go to court.  
But the news item published in the Ittefaq is exceptional. It was a grave crime and the criminals must be brought to justice. Motives were probably hatred, communalism, and sense of majority.       

Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2012 8:14 PM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] সনাতনধর্মাবলম্বীদেরগো-মাংস সরবরাহকারীদেরবিরুদ্ধেব্যবস্থা নিন

 
I have faced similar situations many times.  Devout Muslim friends poured a bowl of beef curry on my plate, their eyes glared like incandescent torches.  Muslims of such manners are indeed to be pitied.  I would blame their religious leaders for such manners.

2012/1/6 Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
 
I am trying to understand the psychology behind such acts. I have seen people who eat meat, but not fish. I have seen people who eat fish, but no meat. Why would someone trick you to eat something that you don't want to eat? What do they gain from these ats?  
 
I have so many personal experiences of such actions. My first encounter was right after my marriage. My wife just came to Dhaka. One of my very close friends invited us during the Eid. We arrived on time. Food was served. Right before eating, my wife inquired about the meat-curry. They told us that - it was beef. Unfortunately, they had nothing else, except 'Dal (lentil soup).' So, we had to contend ourselves with the Dal-Bhat.  Now, the question is - how could they be so sure that we will eat beef? What if we started eating and then inquired about the meat. I have no answers till today.
 
Next, I went to another Muslim friend's house in the USA during another Eid. My entire family was with me. There was a beef-curry on the table. This time, the difference was that - they told us what it was. The problem was - now, we had to decide if we would take it or not; it's an undue pressure, knowing that they were watching us as we were picking items from the table. I understand they like beef, but shouldn't you cook something that your guests might enjoy? I keep wondering.
 
Another incident occurred in a function at a Hindu temple here in the USA. Host ordered goat meat from a restaurant, owned by a Muslim. Instead of goat-curry, they served mixed beef and goat curry. Later on, they revealed that beef was served in that Hindu temple on such and such occasion. They were so proud of their deed that they could not contain the secrecy.
 
I have too many experiences like these. Therefore, I cannot brush these incidents off as some rare incidents. I think they are much too common.
 
If I invite a Muslim family at my house, I will never dream of keeping a pork or tortoise dish in the menu. Such act is a sin in my book. Is that so in Islam? If it is – how could so many people still do it?
 
 I tend to believe that – Dr. Kamal Das may be right. This is driven by the religious belief that certain acts bring regious credits. It may be a corollary belief to that of getting credits for converting a non-Muslim. As you know -  it is believed in that part of the world that - a Hindu can get converted to Islam simply by eating beef. Therefore, if you can feed beef to a Hindu somehow, you have cracked his Hindu faith. You should get some credit for that. Is this the logic behind the incentive for these acts?
 
People who think food is something that could change one's religious belief are the stupidest people on the face of the earth. It is quite sad how religion has destroyed normal thinking process of billions of highly educated/uneducated people. Religion has seized their normal thought processes; it's insanity. If they had the power to think normally, they could easily find out how stupid their reasoning is. I feel pity for these people.
 
Jiten Roy


From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2012 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] সনাতনধর্মাবলম্বীদেরগো-মাংস সরবরাহকারীদেরবিরুদ্ধেব্যবস্থা নিন

 
Many Muslims feel a thousand steps nearer to paradise when they can feed beef to their Hindu friends, though the ancient Hindu seers regularly ate it.

2012/1/5 Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
 
 

সনাতনধর্মাবলম্বীদেরগো-মাংস সরবরাহকারীদেরবিরুদ্ধেব্যবস্থা নিন

লেখক: ইত্তেফাক রিপোর্ট  |  বৃহস্পতি, ৫ জানুয়ারী ২০১২, ২২ পৌষ ১৪১৮
সিলেটের ডিসি ও এসপিকে হাইকোর্ট
সিলেটের একটি শিক্ষা প্রতিষ্ঠানের পুনর্মিলনী অনুষ্ঠানে খাদ্য হিসেবে সনাতন ধর্মাবলম্বীদের গরুর মাংস সরবরাহকারীদের বিরুদ্ধে ব্যবস্থা নিতে সেখানকার জেলা প্রশাসক, মেট্রোপলিটন পুলিশ কমিশনার, সদর থানার ভারপ্রাপ্ত কর্মকর্তাকে নির্দেশ দিয়েছে হাইকোর্ট। বিচারপতি এএইচএম শামসুদ্দিন চৌধুরী ও বিচারপতি জাহাঙ্গীর হোসেন সেলিমকে নিয়ে গঠিত হাইকোর্টের ডিভিশন বেঞ্চ গতকাল বুধবার এ নির্দেশ দেন। একই সঙ্গে ওই ঘটনায় নিজেদের ভূমিকা ব্যাখ্যা করতে অনুষ্ঠান উদযাপন কমিটির আহ্বায়ক ড. সায়েলা খাতুন, সদস্য সচিব নাজমা বেগম এবং সংশ্লিষ্ট শিক্ষা প্রতিষ্ঠানের প্রধানকে আগামী ১৬ জানুয়ারি আদালতে হাজির হওয়ার নির্দেশ দেয়া হয়েছে। সিলেট সিটি কর্পোরেশনের মেয়র, মেট্রোপলিটন পুলিশ কমিশনার, জেলা প্রশাসক ও সদর থানার ভারপ্রাপ্ত কর্মকর্তাকে একইদিন এ বিষয়ে একটি প্রতিবেদন দাখিল করতে বলা হয়েছে। হাইকোর্টের আদেশে বলা হয়, বাংলাদেশ একটি ধর্মনিরপেক্ষ দেশ। এ দেশের সংবিধানে সকল ধর্মাবলম্বীর সমান অধিকার নিশ্চিত করা হয়েছে। এখানে পুনর্মিলনীর মতো সার্বজনীন অনুষ্ঠানে গরুর মাংস খাওয়ানো হয়েছে। হিন্দু ধর্মাবলম্বীরা গরুর মাংস খান না। সেখানে এ ধরনের অনুষ্ঠানে মানুষকে বিভ্রান্ত করে গরুর মাংস খাওয়ানো মারাত্মক ধরনের অপরাধ। অনুষ্ঠানের আয়োজক ও খাবার পরিবেশনে দায়িত্ব পালনকারীরা এর দায় এড়াতে পারেন না।
দৈনিক মানবজমিন পত্রিকায় প্রকাশিত এক প্রতিবেদনে বলা হয়, গত ২৫ ডিসেম্বর সিলেটের অগ্রগামী বালিকা উচ্চ বিদ্যালয় ও কলেজের ১০৮ বছর পূর্তি অনুষ্ঠানে খাসি ও মুরগির কথা বলে সনাতন ধর্মাবলম্বীদের গরুর মাংস খাওয়ানোর ঘটনা ঘটে। এই প্রতিবেদনের ভিত্তিতে অমিত দাস গুপ্ত নামে এক আইনজীবী হাইকোর্টে রিট দায়ের করেন।
 













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[mukto-mona] FW: Pope Says Liberal family values threaten humanity: Corrective Steps Are Needed



 

 

 

Pope Says Liberal family values threaten humanity: Corrective Steps Are Needed

Pope Benedict XVI yesterday warned that liberal family values were threatening the future of humanity, in a veiled reference to homosexual marriage and adoptions by gay couples."Policies which undermine the family threaten human dignity and the future of humanity itself," the pontiff said in a speech at the Vatican."The family, based on the marriage of a man and a woman ... is not a simple social convention, but rather the fundamental cell of every society," added the 84-year-old pope.

 

We believe Pope has voiced the concern of all religions, not only Christianity. The humanity is suffering from direct or indirect destruction of family. Atheism and Marxism have laid the foundations of destruction of family. Marxism wanted to create communes where men and women will live together without marriage and children will be state or commonm property.Secularism which is a product of atheism and enlightenment value of naturalism ( that everything has happened naturally, there is no need of a Creator) has strengthened this desrtructive tendency. In these ideologies man is just like another animal. As other animals do not have family, so there is no need for family. They can have all types of relations.We know the result in the West and also East .This has to be reversed. The family has to be strengthened .Moral values have to be strengthened.Only religions can save humanity from all these evils.

 



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[mukto-mona] Sleepless Memory - an epic story



 
I am sure you have heard many turbulent and tumultuous stories of the liberation war of Bangladesh. This one is different from any of those stories, you may have heard before. I hope you will enjoy it. Your constructive comments or criticisms will be highly appreciated. Please have a look. 
 
Please click on the link below:
 
Regards'
Jiten Roy
 


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[ALOCHONA] Tributes to Bangabandhu !!!!!!!



আজ ১০ জানুয়ারী , আমাদের জাতির ইতিহাসের একটি স্বরণীয় দিন
ভীষণ আনন্দের দিন , স্বাধীনতার পূর্ণতার দিন ৷ সর্বকালের সর্বশ্রেষ্ঠ
বাঙালি , জাতির জনক বঙ্গবন্ধু পাকিস্তানের বন্দীদশা থেকে মাথা উচু করে
এই দিনে ফিরে এসেছিলেন তার স্বপ্নের স্বাধীন মুক্ত  বাংলাদেশে ৷ ১৯৭১ এর
১৬ ডিসেম্বর স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশ পাক-হানাদারমুক্ত হলেও সবাই অধীর আগ্রহে
দিন গুনছিলেন কখন প্রানপ্রিয় নেতা , স্বাধীনতার পথিকৃত ,জাতির পিতা
বঙ্গবন্ধু সবার মাঝে ফিরে আসবেন ৷ মুক্তিযুদ্ধের সময় বঙ্গবন্ধু সশরীরে উপস্থিত
না থাকলেও তিনি ছিলেন জাগ্রত সবার অন্তরে , তার ৭ মার্চের সেই অবিশ্বরনীয়
ভাষণ , সেই বজ্রকন্ঠ ছিল মুক্তিযুদ্ধের দিক-নির্দেশনা , মুক্তিযোদ্ধাদের চালিকাশক্তি
জয় বাংলা , জয় বঙ্গবন্ধু বলে অকুতভয়  মুক্তিযোদ্ধারা ঝাপিয়ে পরেছিল হানাদার পাকবাহিনীর 
উপর , ছিন্ন-ভিন্ন করেছিল তাদের কঠিন প্রতিরোধ ৷ তাই আসুন এই অবিশ্বরনীয় দিনে স্বশ্রদ্ধচিত্তে 
স্বরণ করি জাতির জনক বঙ্গবন্ধুকে , প্রতিগ্গা করি রাজাকারমুক্ত সোনার বাংলা গড়ার 
জয় বাংলা , জয় বঙ্গবন্ধু ,
মুহাম্মদ আলী মানিক,এম .ডি
উপদেষ্টা , যুক্তরাষ্ট্র আওয়ামী লীগ 


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[mukto-mona] WAR CRIMES CHARGES ACCEPTED !!!!!!!



Good News ! Good News !! Good News !!!

Ghulam Azam, Nizami

War crimes charges accepted

Warrant if Azam does not appear in court tomorrow

The International Crimes Tribunal yesterday accepted formal charges against former Jamaat ameer Ghulam Azam and its present Chief Motiur Rahman Nizami for their alleged involvement in crimes against humanity during the Liberation War.
The tribunal directed Ghulam's chief counsel barrister Abdur Razzaq to produce the ex-Jamaat-e-Islami ameer before it by 10:30am tomorrow, or it will issue an arrest warrant against him. It also fixed February 12 for thehearing on charge framing against Nizami.
The two Jamaat leaders have been charged with involvement in genocide, rape and arson during the Liberation War, the prosecutors said.
The prosecution on January 5 submitted to the tribunal 62 charges of crimes against humanity against Ghulam Azam. On December 11 last year, the prosecution submitted at least 15 charges of crimes against humanity against Nizami.
The tribunal said it had examined the formal charges, probe reports and documents submitted by the prosecution, and primarily found proof that Ghulam and Nizami committed crimes against humanity in 1971.
It asked the prosecution to submit copies of formal charges against Ghulam to the registrar's office tomorrow for making the papers available to his lawyers.
The tribunal, headed by Justice Nizamul Huq, rejected a petition from Ghulam Azam who sought dismissal of the charges against him. It asked Abdur Razzaq whether he could produce Ghulam Azam before the court.
Razzaq told the court that he could produce Ghulam before the court after a day or two, as his elderly client needs time for preparation to appear before the tribunal.
On December 26 last year, the tribunal sent back to the prosecution formal charges against Ghulam Azam, since the charges brought against him were not classified and organised properly.
The court yesterday asked the prosecution to turn in copies of formal charges against Nizami to the registrar's office by January 12 so that the defence lawyers could collect those by January 15.
The orders came after the tribunal took into cognisance formal charges against Nizami, who is now in jail custody.
Following the court orders, prosecutor Zead Al Malum told reporters that Ghulam, the then ameer of East Pakistan Jamaat-e Islami, along with Kamaruzzaman, Mir Kashem Ali and others had formed Shanti Committee, and Razakar, Al-Badr and Al-Shams Bahinis that collaborated with the Pakistan occupation forces.
He had instigated killings of intellectuals, rape, torture, looting and other offences during the Liberation War. Nizami was also involved in similar offences, said the prosecutor.
The prosecutor said they had found that Ghulam and Nizami were involved in a number of crimes that were classified in five categories.
Abdur Razzaq said he was happy with the tribunal's order that gave him time to produce Ghulam before the court.
Nizami was present at the tribunal during the legal proceedings against him.
Meanwhile, Ghulam Azam told private TV Channel NTV, "If there is a case [against you], you have to be present at the court. I am happy that I got the opportunity to appear before the court without the hassle of arrest… I will go to the court."

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