Thursday, March 26, 2009

[ALOCHONA] Abuse of religion: old tricks at play [Awami Ulema party ??]

Surely socialism & communism is at the heart of Bongobondhu Mujib's doctrine. Seikh Mujib had a dream to socialist leaning philosophy, in-line with India. After the independence, in Bangladesh, left-leaning thinkers rise in our shore-line like mushroom. Our very prestigious educational institutes, our national think-tanks all are mired with socialistic view. Most of our media personalities, newspaper editorials and progressive thinkers (whoever they could be) have a socialistic thinking lineage. And part of Awami failure in our politics can be attributed to their socialistic agenda & suspicion of India-lover. So, after '75, Awami League never really able to rule the country. Shrewed Hasina realized that, and she took the window of opportunity in '91 by pilgrimage to Mekka and covered her hair with bandana. Awami League also sabotaged religion to fit its purpose, but, only accuse others - feit-acompli!

Now we have Awami Ulema Party! I am very curious to see the menifesto of Awami Ulema party - how they could be in-line with Awami menifesto? How does socialism & secularism fit in the Awami Ulema Party? What are these Awami-Moulana want to establish in the land of Bangladesh?

So, now you are telling me, Awami League does not the play the trick of religion? Who is this dumba retelling fiction here?

For longest time, 38 years, Awami League skimmed juice of Liberation War, Hasina has the sole propritorship of the land of Bangladesh! Anyone has a a different or Islamist view, are all labelled as 'rajakar', why?

Just few days ago, one secreatry was fired writing a poem against Seikh Mujib. Why? Seikh Mujib is infalliable? No one can criticize him? In fact Mujib is the first "DICTATOR" on the fresh land of Bangladesh, can you imagine 'Heil Mujib'?

What Mujib presidency contributed to the progress of Bangladesh? Except independence of Bangladesh, Mujib had greatly damaged political democracy in Bangladesh! History will remember Mujib's presidency with tyranny, dictatorship, croynism & nephotism! BAKSAL & Rakhi Bahini is Mujib's last donation to Bangladesh. Should we not talk about them again? These are historical facts!

Anyone found guilty of war criminal whould be punished. Please be mindful, having a different political view or opposing war is not a 'war crime'. But thoe who engage in rape, murder or actively fought against Muktibahini should be punished. Communist Party also oppossed the Liberation war. Ex-Leader of Communist Party now part of Hasina's "grand alliance". Why unfailry label Jamaat Islami only to take politcal advantage and tourture their supporters from various universities? A kid who is only 17 years old, maybe a shibir supporter, what he has to do with 'rajakar' or 'war criminal'? What's rational killing 7 students in Rajshahi University recently? Are they not son of Bangladesh, and waht's their crime? Not all Jamaat supporters are rajakar? Neither all Awami supporters are saint?

Take this instance: We all know 'Inquilab' founder 'rajakar' Moulana Mannan. I remember, 'Inquilab' was acused by Awami as a 'rajakar' newspaper. After his death, Moulana Mannan's son, AKM Bahauddin who supports Awami League, Inquilab is their favorite newspaper! Inquilab is all sanitized, no one smelling 'rajakar' anymore! What a deception, beyond imagination!

What Awami League really want? A 'hindu-flavored' Islam?

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[ALOCHONA] War crimes_who freed_197 war criminals and 193000 Pak Soldiers

Dear friends,

It is heard that Sheikh Mujibur Rahaman with the help of Dr. Kamal Hossain and associates have done everything to free 195 proven war criminals including 1,93,000 Pakistani soldiers most of them directly had killed the freedom fighters and Bengalis.

Is it true? Please let us know more documents & information if you have any.

Thank you,

Shahid Sadik

Human Rights Activist

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Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: RAW Bird Farida Majid and Faruk khan

"If she ever uses the term "Jewish jongi" in USA then she would be kicked out or deported from United States of America." Hmmm, which country do you live in again? This is not communist China, and believe you me, I've dealt with the communist government of China. I live in the U.S. too Mr. Alam, and I know of many people, including orthodox Jews who hate the Jewish militants. Just recently, militant Jews were trying to establish new settlements in the West Bank, Muslims and Jews worked together and protested against them. No one got kicked out or deported from the U.S. So, why spread such falsehood?

Need another example? immediately after 9/11 when the whole country was on a edge, there was a rally in front of the 26 Federal Plaza (for my non-U.S. readers, that's the FBI building in New York). The rally was to protest unlawful incarceration, deportation and racial profiling of Muslims from Arab and South Asian countries. I was at that rally and to my amazement, there were jews and Muslims who were protesting against this infringement on civil rights. The same jews and muslims also made statements like U.S. is enacting the Patriot Act and profiling Muslims because the militant Jews from Israel is lobbying the Bush government. Whether that was true or not is not the point. But no one gets thrown out or deported from the U.S. for speaking against militancy of any kind!!

Cyrus

From: Firoz Alam <afirozny@yahoo.com>
To: alochona <alochona@yahoogroups.com>; ahumanb <ahumanb@yahoo.com>; khabor khabor <khabor@yahoogroups.com>; notun bangladesh <notun_bangladesh@yahoogroups.com>; uttorshuri <uttorshuri@yahoogroups.com>; Mukto Mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>; Amra-bangladesi <amra-bangladesi@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 5:59:23 AM
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: RAW Bird Farida Majid and Faruk khan

Dear members -

I want Farida Majid to define what makes a "jongi" and what makes a jongi a "Islamic jongi"? And what is the difference between the two?

She must be held in contempt for such behavior if she fails to explain the logic behind it.

In periods of turmoil and unrest such venomous fabrications[ Islamic jongi] may gain credence among the ignorant and may poison their minds but the Muslim-baiter-legends Farida Majid is bound to destroy herself, like anti-Muslim myths of old. A lie may shuns the sunlight. It may thrives in darkness but it cant survive analysis and the truth must prevail.

If she ever uses the term "Jewish jongi" in USA then she would be kicked out or deported from United States of America.

Why does Farida Majid carry on a Muslim name when she can't use it where she works at? does it indicate that she is also the clone of her hidden planet? Perhaps a RAW agent in disguise planting psychological operation on behalf of raw's/mossad' s causes?

As she suggests that she can critize the Govt. for certain actions then why does she not criticize the Govt. instead of she is tring to taking issue with the term "RAW bird" with Munshi when Mujumder who coined it? Why so such hypocracy on her part?

Give Munshi a break and if and when anything is chocking her throat then she must visit her primary care physician instead of acting it up.

Firoz Alam.

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Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Moin U Ahmed & PM responsible for the BDR HQ killings!!!

Interesting distinction Mr. Sadik. So, you hate the war criminals who wanted to extend Pakistani colonialism and turn Bangladesh into a Paki prostitute and an Islamic state, but you do not hate the party that shelters war criminals and want to establish a puritanical Islamic state and throw away our thousand year old secular traditions? Ideologically, aren't they the same? Perhaps you should read the history of Jamaat and its "mein kampf" published on its website. The rajakars who rallied against Bangladesh believed that if East Pakistan becomes independent, it would become secular and "Hindus" would rule over the Muslims.

You hate the dictator, the military junta that is responsible for killing and persecution of many Bangladeshis, but you don't hate the very same party ideologies that was used to hijack our government and oppress people? I am a bit flabbergasted.

Is it something like, "Don't hate the playa, but hate the game" kinda philosophy? I am curious.

Everyone hates the Bakshalis and the rakkhi bahini! Even many Awami League supporters detest Rakkhi bahini and Bakshal ideologies.

From: Shahid Sadik <shahid123sadik@yahoo.com>
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 6:25:58 AM
Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Moin U Ahmed & PM responsible for the BDR HQ killings!!!

I hate Rajakar of 71 not Jamat, hate Awami bakshali, rakkhi bahini more not Awami League, hate Shoirachar of 90 not Jatio Party.

Why without swoing any logic you are criticising other, only awami Bakshali, Jongi and Charampanthi leftist could make such comment.

Shahid Sadik

--- On Mon, 3/23/09, Shamim Chowdhury <veirsmill@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Shamim Chowdhury <veirsmill@yahoo. com>
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Moin U Ahmed & PM responsible for the BDR HQ killings!!!
To: alochona@yahoogroup s.com
Date: Monday, March 23, 2009, 5:03 AM

There are many self-proclaimed human rights activists are in production in recent days. It seems who ever do not want to disclose their political identity or affliction finds the human right shield as extremely valuable when flushing venom against our nations unity.

As their self-imposed titles are fascinating their hypothetical, imaginary conjectural analysis of BDR issue are mesmerizing but precarious. I will call then scientist rather then activist because their bi (or bio) product are one of a piece, which separates them from regular.

In an ordinary time I will read their theories or discard it as rubbish but when the nation passing through a somber but crucial juncture their write-up seems very cruel and designs to fuel for instigating a national crisis.

This reminds us of role played by Jamaat-e-Islami and other anti liberation forces during our liberation war. When we Bengalis were fighting for our existence, they called us Indian agents. Jamaat leaders filled print and electronic media with rhetoric and vengeance against our unity during the nine months war of liberation.

We were fighting against them then, we are fighting against them today, and our sons and daughter will continue the fight against them into future. We won then, we will win today and surely, our sons and daughters will be victorious as well.

Regards

Shamim Chowdhury

Maryland, USA

--- In alochona@yahoogroup s.com, Shahid Sadik <shahid123sadik@ ....> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear friends,
>
> Â
>
> Please hear
> the audio between PM and Army officers at Army HQ again. It is very clear that
> Maj. General Shakil had talked both Moin U Ahmed & Sheikh Hasina. They
> both assured that the army is coming soon. Almost 1 hour the officers inside BDR
> Dorbar Hall were alive. But army didnâ€™t come.
>
> Â
>
> The second thing is that why the BDR gate no. 5 was open to escape the killers.
>
> Â
>
> Those two things clearly proved that PM & Moin U Ahmed is responsible for the heinous killings at least
> indirectly!! !
>
> Â
>
> Thank you,Â Â
>
> Â
>
> Shahid Sadik
>
> Human Rights Activist
>

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Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: Mr. Cyrus and Ms. Farida Majid

Mr. Alam:

While your unhealthy fixation with me and Ms. Majid is amusing, if not flattering, this is going to be my last posting with the subject line "Mr. Cyrus and Ms. Farida Majid". I am open to discussing any subject matter with you without making it personal, about you and I. Somehow, I am not getting across the point that the discussion is not about you or me or even Mr. Munshi. You have turned this whole discussion about us, and I have had enough of your distortion of facts, misconstruction of my statements, and out of context ranting about triviality. If you want to discuss meaningful issues, let's talk about the issues and not you and me.

There is a fundamental difference between "loyal opposition" and "juvenile adamancy", and I am finding it increasingly difficult to put your postings in either category. While I admire your persistent and out-of-context opposition to anything and everything that I say or post, I am starting to think that you are simply being antagonistic because you either enjoy it, or trying to change the topic from Mr. Munshi aka Isha Khan's obsession with India and Pakistan. Your antagonism reminds me of that classic exchange: "What are you rebelling against, Johnny?" and Johnny (Marlon Brando) replies, "Whaddya got?" A rebel without a cause, or in your case, an antagonist without a cause, is only romantic on the silver screen, but unproductive in a meaningful discussion.

If you want to show outrage and protest against something or someone, at least make sure that you know the reasons and not fall into the same "red-herring fallacy" that you mention. Almost everything you had said so far is a diversion technique to move the focus away from Mr. Munshi's postings. It's a bit hypocritical to decry "red-herring fallacies" and use the same to change the topic. The day you callously decided to put my name and Ms. Majid's name in the subject line, the topic changed from Bangladesh's economy, politics and our prosperity to you and you alone.

Observing your rather vulgar and uncalled for outbursts where you swear at my mother and question the legitimacy of my birth, I am of the opinion that you are intentionally taking my posts out of context, diverting from the main issues, and making this whole discussion about you and only you. Why do I say that? Here is why:

1. From my first post where I differed with Mr. Munshi's analysis and conspiracy theories about an impending Indian rule and the "Hindufication" of the Muslims in our country, I had made it clear that I am opposed to his views and not him. I don't know him and I have nothing against him personally. I am opposed to his views, as he is entitled to oppose my views. I welcome a spirited discussion. But along came you from the left field, and decided to make this about you and me, and Ms. Farida Majid (as she is guilty by association). See the subject line that was started by you, and you will see my point.

2. Instead of reading the whole paragraph and understanding my texts, you conveniently picked out key words or phrases that would help you spill out your passive aggressive and meaningless rant. You were offended by the phrase "flying rat's anatomy", often used to describe triviality of a certain matter? Really? And you don't think calling someone Hitler, pest, dog, and what not is not at all offensive? You were offended by Ms. Majid's use of the word "hound"? I hope you know that "hound(ing)" is also a verb (check the Webster). You were also upset, at least seemingly, with my use of the phrase "bent over backwards". I believe that I had explained to you the meaning of the phrase in my previous posts. Where do you get this false outrage from? If you want to be genuinely angry at someone, at least make sure that you understand fully what you are angry about. If you are just angry because you think some words or the usage of some words are offensive to you, but decide to be completely vulgar in your response, people just might think that you are being hypocritical, don't you think? Those who are easily outraged by triviality are often silent towards anything consequential.

3. I carefully reviewed the three seemingly intelligent questions that you had posted. Would you kindly point out to me, as well as to all readers, when did I say that YOUR views are "identical" to that of Moududi's? Again, you have conveniently turned this about you and quite characteristically, you are not carefully reading my posts. Unless you are Mr. Munshi himself and "Firoz Alam" or "Isha Khan" are your pseudonyms, my comment was not targeted towards you. Furthermore, I had never said that Mr. Munshi's views are "identical" to Moududi's. I called him a "Moududi wanna-be" because just like Moududi, he is prescribing "doctrines" that have long term consequences in inter-religious and inter-nation relationships. I will get to Moududi's philosophy in a moment, but let's deal with the fact that as of right now, you ARE NOT Mr. Munshi nor have I ever called you a "Moududi wanna-be". I know it's going to be an existential crisis for you, but please try not to lie about what I had said or distort my posts to fuel your baseless rant.

4. I have never called ANYONE a rat or a pest or compared them with any other animal for that matter.. It was you who began to do it. So, would you please stop lying about me and my comments? It's simply stupid and sickening at this point.

5. My statement about Moududi tells you more about me than Mr. Moududi? That goes to show the level of intelligence from where you are operating. Then again, an intelligent discourse wasn't what I expected in the first place. What is "objective" is that Mr. Moududi's name was used as a reference, but he is not the topic of discussion here. That's why I didn't discuss Moududi. You are simply oblivious of the fact that this whole discussion was about Mr. Munshi's statements and analysis, and not Moududi. If you are having "conceptual problems" about the identity and philosophy of Moududi, I would be happy to send you a list of scholarly writings, both in his support and opposition, so that you are able to clear yourself out of the self-imposed "mystery" that I had allegedly created, by "not yielding to nor revealing". Otherwise, feel free to google search Moududi's name and do yourself the favor. I would be happy to discuss Moududi's teachings with you, but this is not the thread nor is it main topic of discussion.

6. Mentally challenged in an "Orwellian Sense"? I hope you know the meaning "Orwellian". I think you are more Machiavellian than Orwellian, but that's just me. I called you "mentally challenged" because you keep misinforming the readers about my statements, suppress the real meanings of what I had said and instead post your wrong interpretations as my comments. More precisely, you seem to show false fury over words and phrases that were neither offensive nor directed at you. Only a mentally challenged individual would show outrage over the word "hound" when Ms. Majid used as a verb and not a noun. But I am not in the business of psych evaluation. I leave that up to your health care providers.

7. Once again, you decide to distort my statements and misinform the readers of this forum about the context. I have never called myself an "intellectual" or "Pundit" in any sense. When you say that I am a "self-declared" pundit, you are essentially proving yourself to be a liar. I am a policy professional and I do that for a living. But I am not in the habit of calling myself an intellectual or a pundit. So, my advise, please look up the word "self-declared" and point out where I called myself an intellectual or a pundit in any of my postings.

Unfortunately, you don't understand the difference between science and your inconsequential questions about Moududi, and that these questions have nothing to do with my profession in public policies. It's like finding a logical linkage between spaghetti, the weather, and life after death. If you want to talk about science, let's keep that separate from our disagreements over Moududi.

Your inflated sense of self is telling you that you are a great examiner in this discourse who is quizzing the intellectual depth of an insignificant "pest" whom you oppose. Hate to break your maniacal bubble, but this ain't no Greek forum, nor are we discussing philosophy here. If you want to engage me or anyone in a philosophical discussion, please put forward your views, show us your depth of understanding, and not just write up drunken hyperbole and cryptic nonsense and hit the "send" button.

If you disagree with my comments about Mr. Munshi and his analysis, which you are absolutely entitled to, please tell us in what context do you disagree. Which part of my comments about his India/Pak obsession do you disagree with? If you are right in your analysis, I would be happy to acknowledge my misunderstandings and correct them. But if you are not right, and just arguing for the sake of argument or out of sheer loneliness in the cyberspace, you are wasting my time. I had a spirited disagreement with Mr. Zaglul Haq recently. While we both disagreed with each other's views, our disagreement was coherent, meaningful, and based on facts and analysis. Neither Mr. Zaglul nor I picked out auxiliary verbs and nouns from our statements and changed the discussion. At the end, we still disagree with each other. But at least I have respect for his coherent argument. Unfortunately, I cannot say the same for you.

My invitation to you remains open. If you can get back to the original discussion about the bogus-boo, fear mongering, anti-semite, anti-everything progressive doctrine of Mr. Munshi, I would be happy to engage in a spirited discussion. But if you want to engage in a pseudo-intellectual analysis of auxiliary verbs, metaphors, and analogies, you are going to have to fulfill your lonely fantasy in some other way, for your indulgence is not worth my time.

Thanks,

Cyrus

From: Firoz Alam <afirozny@yahoo.com>
To: alochona <alochona@yahoogroups.com>; Mukto Mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>; uttorshuri <uttorshuri@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 6:07:31 AM
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Mr. Cyrus and Ms. Farida Majid

Dear Members -

Identity of "Moududi" and "Moududi wanna-be" have become recently a popular word or theme for someone who takes it as a self-evident or self-explanatory concept, but conceptual problems, on my part, that I am having with such terms, are not being discussed by the proponent or not yielding to nor revealing as to what the definition of such identity can be constructed with, is, still a mystery to me.

If and when somebody is defined as rat-the-pest as was defined by Cyrus, it is not a human being any more: it [sic] has become a pest to be eliminated in gas chambers as was done by Hitler. And this distinction is need to be understood to reflect whether Mr. Cyrus' rat metaphor can be used in the context of Hitler's situation.

I don't intend to claim that my dialogue or discussion or debate whatever one may call it, is comprehensive as many areas require or deserve better description or inclusion or emphasis in feasible length but whether the "uses or meaning" of the phrase "moral" is static or dynamic is debatable but my "moral support" would always remain "static" in the context in which I have used it. And whether the "concept of freedom" or the "morality is a static concept" have no relevance, in my view, to those who seek freedom from oppression or tyranny and my "moral support" for their causes. It is a diversion technique or
red-herring fallacy.

I find the statement [perverted philosophy] of Cyrus about Mr.. Moududi, has no objective content. It tell us nothing about Mr. Moududi. Let me put it differently, Mr. Cyrus' opinion about Mr. Moududi tells more about Mr.Cyrus than about Mr. Moududi. Mr. Cyrus really spell it out with a clarity that is much needed. I am pretty much in agreement with his conclusions, grim as they are!

Factual accuracy is the foundation of any analysis so we can all get the proper idea of what makes "moududi-phenomenon " after a thorough review of the facts. Please find below those questions' answers would reveal the mystery of "Moududi-phenomenon ".

If and when without knowing these answers make me "mentally challenged" in Orwellian sense, I have no problem whatsoever but without these answers and calling someone "Moududi wanna-be" would make him "mentally dwarf." wouldn't it?

1. What is Moududi's Philosophy? (must provide credible evidences)
2. and what is Cyrus' philosophy (i.e, anti-thesis of Moududi or disagreement with the philosophy of Moududi) that makes Moududi's philosophy perverted?
3. And in what relation my views are identical with Mr. Moududi's that makes me "Moududi wanna-be"?

Answering those above questions by him would reveal whether a self-declared "trade-policy- international- affairs-pundit" can and coherently able to teach Science to the so called his version of "mentally challenged" people.

Firoz Alam.

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Re: [ALOCHONA] Dahuk/Alochona: Moderated by intolerant Wahabi fascist

I have heard few Majar Pujari Maolan and common people, obviously their roots in the India claiming the followers of Moinuddin Chisti (Rah.) like Mr. Shamim Chowdhry with the same voice. It is not new like Ms. Mina Farah, a fanatic Hindu living in USA in the name of Muslim continusly writing garvage against Bangladesh & Islam.

Shahid Sadik

--- On Tue, 3/24/09, Firoz Alam <afirozny@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Firoz Alam <afirozny@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Dahuk/Alochona: Moderated by intolerant Wahabi fascist
To: "alochona" <alochona@yahoogroups.com>, "notun bangladesh" <notun_bangladesh@yahoogroups.com>, "Mukto Mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>, "uttorshuri" <uttorshuri@yahoogroups.com>, "Amra-bangladesi" <amra-bangladesi@yahoogroups.com>, "khabor khabor" <khabor@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 10:06 AM

Mr. Shamim

Since Moderators of Alochona does not post any of my articles, why should I be calling them Islamic fascist or wahabi fascist? What Islam has to do with their reasonings not to publish my write-ups? Or What role does play on Alochona's moderators mind of the inpretation of Wahabi in deciding not to publish my articles? I just can't grasp it as to why should I be calling them as such terms that you are accustomed of.

As Islam does not have any compulsion whatsoever on the matters of opinions or any actions/deeds of others, so why should they be termed as Islamic fascist?

If they would understood Islam, then, I think, Alochona would have approved my messages as well as Dahuk. Wrongly labeling or name calling of others does reflect lack of knowledge of yours and that's should be rephrehensible. And it is a misdirection of your anger toward them.

We should protest against the craven attitude of our Bangladeshi forums' moderators with the dignified language that describe them the best.

Would you mind in explaining as to why do you use those terms to describe their actions/deeds? And I m waiting to hear from you soon of what sorts of logic that would best describe your anger to label them as Islamic fascists or Wahabi fascists?

Thank you.

Firoz Alam

--- In khabor@yahoogroups. com, Shamim Chowdhury <veirsmill@.. .> wrote:

Intolerant Wahabi Islamic fascist sect moderates Dahuk yahoo group. As a rule, they will not post any dissenting views-comments, if not certified by ultra orthodox wahabisam. When they do post dissenting view moderator himself/herself will twist it so much that originality of the posters views will be lost.

This attitude of not giving a chance to dissenting view is common among Washabist but without a doubt, this is very sad.

Thanks

Shamim Chowdhury
Maryland, USA

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[ALOCHONA] Re: Pakistan may collapse in six months

Mr. Salahuddin Ayubi, I would be agreeing with you if this was not Pakistan but in case of Pakistan rest of the world especially our sub continent cannot sit at leisure in the sideline and let Taliban and other Islamic militants take control of nuclear warhead.

A huge population of Pakistan converted into radical Islam in last 30 years where criminals like Mullah Omar or Osama becomes hero of a lifetime. Where mosque and other Islamic institution been randomly used as training ground for exporting militant Islam in not just in South Asia but to the rest of the world.

Pakistan predictably supposes to be domed anyway because of its creation on the basis of falls presumption of two-nation theory based on religion. There is no God but Allah but the merciful has no reason to mercy on Pakistan . If they are not going to be go astray for any other reason they must for killing millions of people of Bangladesh , raping thousands of women, looting and burning village after village in then East Pakistan . If there is one who is the supreme then he must do the justice and ruin Pakistan as he ruined Nomrud and other nation.

People of Pakistan must do something if they want to save their nation from confirm ruination. They must do Taoba for all the wrongdoing they have done and start sensible comeback from making Pakistan further radical. Pakistan must beg for forgiveness going into its knees to Bangladesh , Poshtuns, Pathans and others whom they caused misery. They must do everything to destroy militancy by any means.

Pakistan has no right to exist as a nation if they continue to export terrorism around the world especially to our subcontinent. International community has rights and obligation to stop Pakistan being overtaken by Osama Bin Ladens radical un-Islamic Taliban militancy.

Regards

Shamim Chowdhury

Maryland, USA

======================================================
--- In Amra-Bangladesi@yahoogroups.com, Salahuddin Ayubi
<s_ayubi786@...> wrote:

Wishful bloody thinking. But how does that concern us? We are not
concerned with Pakistan anymore. Let them go to bloody hell.
Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Ayubi

________________________________
From: Syed Aslam Syed.Aslam3@...
To: Khobor khabor@yahoogroups.com; notun Bangladesh
notun_bangladesh@yahoogroups.com; reform-bd@yahoogroups.com;
chottala@yahoogroups.com; Amra Bangladesi
amra-bangladesi@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 8:29:08 PM
Subject: [Amra-Bangladesi] Pakistan may collapse in six months

________________________________
â€˜Pakistan may collapse in six monthsâ€™
United News of Bangladesh . Dhaka
The Pakistani state could collapse within six months if immediate steps
are not taken to remedy the situation, warned a top adviser to the US
Central Command in an interview with Washington Post.
Â Â Â David Kilcullen, who advises CENTCOM commander General David H
Petraeus on the war on terror, urged US policy makers to focus their
attention on Pakistan as a failure there could have devastating
consequences for the entire international community.
Â Â Â In the interview published in Washington Post on Sunday,
Kilcullen, who is credited with the success of the US troop surge
strategy in Iraq, warned that if Pakistan went out of control, it would
â€˜dwarfâ€™ all the crises in the world today.
â€˜Pakistanâ€¦hands down. No doubt,â€™ he said when asked
to name the central front in the war against terror.
Â Â Â Asked to explain why he thought Pakistan was so important,
Kilcullen said: â€˜Pakistan has 173 million people, 100 nuclear
weapons, an army bigger than the US Army, and al-Qaeda headquarters
sitting right there in the two-thirds of the country that the government
doesnâ€™t control.â€™
Â Â Â He claimed that the Pakistani military, police and intelligence
service did not follow the civilian government; they were essentially a
rogue state within a state. â€˜Were now reaching the point where
within one to six months we could see the collapse of the Pakistani
state, also because of the global financial crisis, which just
exacerbates all these problems,â€™ he said.
Â Â Â â€˜The collapse of Pakistan, al-Qaeda acquiring nuclear
weapons, an extremist takeover â€" that would dwarf everything
weâ€™ve seen in the war on terror today.â€™ Kilcullen, an
Australian anthropologist who advises governments on Muslim militancy
throughout the West, disagreed with the suggestion that it was important
to kill or capture Osama bin laden.
Â Â Â He discussed two possible scenarios for catching the al-Qaeda
leader. Scenario one is, American commandos shoot their way into some
valley in Pakistan and kill bin Laden. This, Kilcullen said, would not
end the war on terror and would make bin Laden a martyr. The second
scenario: a tribal raiding party captures bin Laden, puts him on
television and says, â€˜You are a traitor to Islam and you have
killed more Muslims than you have killed infidels, and weâ€™re now
going to deal with you.â€™
Â Â Â They could either then try and execute the guy in accordance
with their own laws or hand him over to the International Criminal
Court. â€˜If that happened, that would be the end of the al-Qaeda
myth,â€™ said Kilcullen.
Â Â Â He said that three lessons learned in Iraq could also apply to
Afghanistan. The first one is to protect the population. â€˜Unless
people feel safe, they wonâ€™t be willing to engage in unarmed
politics,â€™ he argued.
Â Â Â The second lesson is to focus on getting the population on
Americaâ€™s side and making them self-defending. And then a third
lesson is to make a long-term commitment.
Â Â Â Kilcullen said that the Obama administrationâ€™ s policy
of reaching out to moderate elements of the Taliban also had several
pitfalls. â€˜If the Taliban sees that weâ€™re negotiating for
a stay of execution or to stave off defeat, thatâ€™s going to
harden their resolve,â€™ he warns. â€˜Iâ€™m all for
negotiating, but I think the chances of achieving a mass wave of people
turning against the Taliban are somewhat lower in Afghanistan than they
were in Iraq.â€™
________________________________

http://www.newagebd .com/2009/ mar/24/front. html

Pakistan may collapse in six months: US General
The New Nation - Internet EditionPakistan may collapse in six months: US
General. UNB, Dhaka The Pakistani state could collapse within six months
if immediate steps are not taken to remedy ...
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A Conversation With David Kilcullen
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David Kilcullen, an Australian army reservist and top adviser to Gen.
David H. Petraeus during the troop surge in Iraq, has spent years
studying ...Â

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[ALOCHONA] East Pakistan?

Shadinothar Subeccha -- - Greetings of Indeendence to all of you

After 38 years of independence of Bangladesh a British institute of Pakistani origins called "London Institute of South Asia (LISA)" still calls Bangladesh as East Pakistan. See below:

Momen
Boston

You can access its website at:

http://www.lisauk.com/

The website lists the principals of LISA as:

Brigadier (Retd) Usman Khalid (Pakistan) London - Director
Sami Malik (Pakistan) London UK - Director
V.T. Rajshekar, Editor Dalit Voice, Bangalore, India
Dr. M.Abdul Mumin Chowdhury (East Pakistan) London
Dr Awatar Singh Sekhon (Punjab), Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Dr Syed M. Inayatullah Andrabi (Occupied Kashmir), London
Abidullah Jan (Pakistan), Toronto, Canada

Note entry number 4. In 2009, some 38 years after the declaration of independence, one of LISA's principal is a Dr. Chowdhury from East Pakistan!!

No wonder, the same Dr. M. Abdul Mumin Chowdhury of "East Pakistan" predicted BNP victory in 2008 election. See below:

http://nation.ittefaq.com/issues/2008/12/26/news0027.htm

Survey predicts BNP victory

Staff Reporter

A number of organisations and international academic bodies have predicted that the BNP-led alliance will win the general election to be held on December 29. The organisations include London Institute of South Asia (LISA), Weekly Probenews and Bangladesh Manabadhikar Samonnay Paris-had (Bamasap).

Probenews and Bamasap predict that the BNP-led alliance will win an absolute majority bagging 154 to 155 constituencies, while LISA says, the BNP led alliance have nearly 10 per cent lead over the Awami League (AL) lead alliance. LISA conducted the survey from December 12 to 22 under the supervision of a team of academics headed by Dr M Abdul Mumin Chowdhury.

The other members of the team include Dr Nurul Islam Manjur, Dr Akhteruzzaman and Dr Harunu-ur-Rashid. From the respondents expressed voting intention nearly 10 per cent are still to make up their minds, LISA says about its survey.

The other significant findings of the survey are that the overwhelming majority are against army's involvement in the political process.

They are also against the meddling of representatives of foreign governments and international agencies and want the incoming elected government to curb this.

The people are also against granting port and transit facilities to India, a press release attaching the survey report of LISA says.

"Our survey gives the BNP-led alliance 9.57 percent lead over its challenger, the Awami League-led alliance," says LISA.

"By forming a much larger alliance AL expected to increase its votes in this election. Our survey clearly shows this expectation has not materialised," it observes.

"It is possible that the AL's role in ushering in the emergency and the unpopular unelected government, the latter's sanguinity to undercut the BNP as well as the party's endearment of the arch secularist and perceived anti-national parties, together with its pledge to give port and transit facilities to the 'neighbours,' which in popular perception stands for India, seem to have cost it dearly," LISA says.

The survey shows the percentage of the supporters of the Awami League-led alliance is proportionately higher in towns and cities than in rural areas, whereas in case of the BNP led alliance the opposite is true.

"The BNP led alliance's position appears to be unassailable. On this basis we predict that the BNP led alliance will win the election," it concludes.

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[ALOCHONA] Why Aren't Indo-Bangla Ties Warmer?

Why Aren't Indo-Bangla Ties Warmer?

Vinod Joseph

Before I did the research that forms the basis of this article, I used to wonder why India and Bangladesh aren't the closest of friends. Consider this: India was responsible for the creation of Bangladesh. If Indian troops hadn't invaded East Pakistan in defence of the Mukti Bahini, it is very unlikely that Pakistan would have allowed its eastern wing to break free. India lost around 2500 soldiers in the course of the 1971 war. Around 2 million Bengalis were killed and a couple of hundred thousand Bengali women raped by Pakistani soldiers in the events leading to Bangladeshi independence. Despite all this, Bangladesh seems to be at least as much friendly with Pakistan as it is with India!

One of the reasons for this frosty state of affairs on India's eastern borders used to be the dispute over sharing of the waters of the Ganges. This dispute has now been resolved with the signing of a treaty in 1996. At present Sheikh Hasina's Awami League is in power in Bangladesh and traditionally, the Awami League has been much closer to India than the other major political party, Begum Khalida Zia's Bangladesh National Party. However, despite a friendly government being in power in Dhaka, there has been no change in popular perception in each country of the other. The average Bangladeshi on the street doesn't seem to like India all that much and the average Indian on the street doesn't give two hoots about Bangladesh. Why is this so?

In my opinion, there are various reasons for this state of affairs.

To start with, Indians tend to (wrongly) assume that because East Pakistan revolted against West Pakistani domination, it has given up its aspiration to be an Islamic country.

Bangladesh is doubtless proud of its Bengali culture, but it never gave up its Islamic character either. Consider these facts: Sheikh Mujib-ur Rahman, the father of the Bangladeshi nation, was a member of the All India Muslim Students Federation since 1940. Mujib-ur Rahman was very close to Huseyn Suhrawardy, a leading member of the Bengal Muslim League, who worked actively for the cause of Pakistan. Mujib-ur Rahman was based in Kolkata in 1946, working under Suhrawardy's guidance, when the Muslim League organised Direct Action Day, leading to large scale communal violence and deaths.

The East Pakistani fight against West Pakistani and especially Punjabi domination commenced soon after Pakistan's independence when Jinnah announced that Urdu would be the national language for the whole of Pakistan. Mujib-ur Rahman led the Muslim Students League as it launched an East Pakistan wide agitation. Ever since then, Mujib-ur Rahman and other East Pakistani politicians were at loggerheads with politicians from West Pakistan. Their quarrel over the language issue was accentuated manifold when West Pakistani politicians tried every ruse in the book to prevent Bengali leaders from holding positions of power at the national level, not an easy task since East Pakistan had a larger population than West Pakistan.

In order to offset East Pakistan's electoral strength, all four provinces in West Pakistan, namely Punjab, Sindh, Baluchistan and the North-West Frontier Province, were sought to be treated as a single political unit. When East Pakistani politicians such as Khawaja Nazimuddin, Muhammad Ali Bogra and Huseyn Suhrawardy become Prime Ministers of Pakistan, they did not stay in power for long before they were deposed by the President, backed by Pakistan's powerful Punjabi-Pakhtun dominated military.

In the 1970 elections, when Mujib-ur Rahman and his Awami League (originally founded by Huseyn Suhrawardy) won a majority of the parliamentary seats, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto proposed that Pakistan should have two Prime Ministers, one for each wing! When Mujib-ur Rahman refused, he was imprisoned and marital law was declared. The Pakistani army launched Operation Searchlight with the intention of teaching Bengalis a harsh lesson they wouldn't forget easily. Politicians don't like to lose power, especially just after they have legitimately won an election. Sheikh Mujib-ur Rahman's declaration of independence was smuggled out to Chittagong and read over the radio by Major Zia-ur Rahman. The rest is history. The day Mujib-ur Rahman made the declaration of independence (26 March 1971) is treated as Bangladesh's independence day, though it was not until 16 December 1971 that Bangladesh was actually liberated from Pakistani troops.

Would East Pakistan have revolted against West Pakistan if Bengalis were allowed to hold office after wining elections? I don't think so. Mere imposition of Urdu as the national language would not have made East Pakistanis break off from their co-religionists in the West. Even in 1965 when India and Pakistan went to war, East Pakistan stood fast with West Pakistan though they complained that the Pakistani army was not present in strength in East Pakistan to defend it in case of an attack by India.

It must not be forgotten that even when the Pakistani army was systematically murdering hundreds of thousands of civilians, many thousands of Bengalis collaborated with the Pakistani army. Doubtless such people were fired by their Islamic zeal, which made them want Pakistan to remain unified as a single Islamic nation.

Bangladesh's Islamic nature started to reassert itself soon after independence. After a brief ban for suspected collaboration with Pakistani forces, the Islamic Academy was revived. Bangladesh sought membership of the Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC) and the Islamic Development Bank. In 1974, less than 3 years after independence, Mujib-ur Rahman made a trip to Lahore to attend an OIC conference and patch up ties with Pakistan. After Zia-ur Rahman came to power, Bangladesh moved much further into the Islamic camp.

Even now, Bangladesh has an Islamic fundamentalist base which fights for stronger ties with Pakistan and other Islamic states, rather than with India. In my opinion, it is wrong to assume that this core group of Islamic fundamentalists is something new. Bangladesh always had this hardcore chunk, for without them, East Bengal would not have voted to break off from West Bengal and the rest of India.

A fact which is easily forgotten when discussing the deaths of around 2 million Bengalis as a result of the Pakistani army pogrom is that a disproportionate number of the victims were Hindus. Most surviving family members of the victims fled to India as refugees. Currently Hindus account for around 10% of Bangladesh's population, as opposed to around 28% in 1941 and approximately 15% before the Pakistani army pogrom. I am not for a moment suggesting that Bengali Muslims did not suffer under the Pakistani army. They did and most of the rebels who formed the Mukti Bahini were Muslims. However the present day population of Bangladesh doesn't have among them as many victims and families of victims as such a large-scale genocide would otherwise have warranted. This is one reason why Bangladesh has been able to largely forgive Pakistan and not press for reparations or compensation.

Indians assume that Bangladeshis will be eternally grateful to India for its intervention in Bangladesh, which led to Bangladeshi independence. I feel that it ought to be the other way around. India ought to be grateful to Bangladesh for giving India a chance to split its arch rival Pakistan into two pieces! As a result of Indians assuming that Bangladesh has chosen to be just a Bengali nation that will intrinsically be friendly towards India, rather than an Islamic-Bengali state (which is what Bangladesh is), Indians expect a lot from Bangladesh without putting in the necessary effort. For example, Indians are disappointed when Bangladesh doesn't crackdown on insurgents from India's north-east sheltering there, even though India hasn't exactly been ladling out favours to Bangladesh after its creation.

I feel it is very important that Indians realise they should not take Bangladesh for granted. Instead for every favour India seeks from Bangladesh, India must be willing to pay back in double measure. India needs to fill Bangladeshi media with sound bytes about how deeply India cares for friendship with Bangladesh. India could provide scholarships for Bangladeshi students to study in India. It could be made easy for Bangladeshi commodities (like jute) and goods (like garments) to be sold in India. Leaders from Bangladesh, irrespective of the party they belong to, should be invited to India and treated with honour and respect.

Instead of treating all Bangladeshi leaders impartially and well, India has been taking sides in what's called the 'Battle of the Begums'. For those unfamiliar with the rivalry between Sheikh Hasina and Begum Khalida Zia, let me briefly summarise the reasons for the animosity between these two great leaders.

Sheikh Hasina is the daughter of Sheikh Mujib-ur Rahman, the founder of Bangladesh. Post independence, after a brief honeymoon period, Mujib-ur Rahman became more and more autocratic. In January 1975 he declared himself to be the absolute ruler of Bangladesh and President for Life. In August 1975, a few army officers staged a coup and took over power. They killed Mujib-ur Rahman and all his family members who were present in Bangladesh. Sheikh Hasina was in Germany at that time and escaped death. She stayed in exile for 6 years and returned to Bangladesh in 1981 as head of the Awami League, when Bangladesh was under General Ershad. Democracy was reinstated in Bangladesh only in 1991 and in 1996, Sheikh Hasina and the Awami League came to power.

Begun Khalida Zia (who heads the Bangladesh National Party) is the widow of Zia-ur Rahman, the army officer who had read Mujib-ur Rahman's call for independence over the radio. Though a Bengali, Zia-ur Rahman grew up in West Pakistan and joined the Pakistani army, winning various awards and decorations for gallantry during the 1965 war between India and Pakistan. The Pakistani army had very few Bengalis, especially in the non-administrative officer class, and Zia-ur Rahman was in a small minority. When Mujib-ur Rahman gave the call for Bengalis to rise up against oppression by West Pakistan, Zia-ur Rahman was one of the Bengali army officers who answered his call. Zia-ur Rahman distinguished himself during the Bangladeshi war of independence.

After Mujib-ur Rahman was deposed in a coup, there were a series of counter coups and Zia-ur Rahman became the Chief Martial Law administrator of Bangladesh and later its 6th President. Zia-ur Rahman founded the Bangladesh National Party. One of the things Zia-ur Rahman did after coming to power was to pardon many of those involved in the coup that overthrew and killed Mujib-ur Rahman. It has never been proved if Zia-ur Rahman himself was involved in that coup. Zia-ur Rahman reversed many of Mujib-ur Rahman's policies. Whilst Mujib-ur Rahman was a socialist, Zia-ur Rahman promoted the private sector. Zia-ur Rahman moved Bangladesh away from the Soviet Union and started to develop close ties with the USA and later China. Bangladeshi demands for reparations and compensation from Pakistan were dropped. Many individuals accused of collaborating with Pakistan during the war of independence were rehabilitated.

Close ties were forged with Saudi Arabia and other Islamic states. The constitution was amended to give it an Islamic slant. Zia-ur Rahman talked of a Bangladeshi identity rather than a Bengali one, seeking to integrate various minorities such as the Chakmas and Urdu speaking Biharis. He ruthlessly crushed all political opposition and in 1981, he was murdered by a group of army officers.

Unlike Mujib-ur Rahman who was dogged by allegations of nepotism and corruption, Zia-ur Rahman was known as Mr. Clean, even among his enemies. All his actions seem to have been motivated by a love for Bangladesh and ideology, rather than any personal vested interest.

As it would be obvious to anyone, the Indian establishment considers Sheikh Hasina and the Awami League to be much more India friendly than Khaleda Zia and the Bangladesh National Party. Most Bangladeshis believe that India does its best to keep the Awami League in power. The net result is that even when the Awami League is in power, there is not much warmth towards India from the average Bangladeshi.

In my opinion, India should not take sides in the Battle of the Begums. Even though it is unlikely that Begum Khaleda Zia and the BNP will ever be as friendly towards India as Sheikh Hasina and the BNP, India ought to treat both the ladies and their respective parties the same. Even more importantly, the average Bangladeshi on the street should not get the impression that India is partial towards one party. Not only should India be impartial, India must also be seen to be impartial.

Currently, an Awami League victory in the elections is treated as a victory for India and a victory for the BNP is treated as a victory for Pakistan. Islamic fundamentalists inimical to India have an incentive in undermining the Awami League. It is even possible that the recent mutiny by soldiers of the Bangladesh Rifles was instigated by Islamic fundamentalists who feel that by making Bangladesh unstable when the Awami League is in power, they are sending a message to India.

Another reason for the average Bangladeshi on the street to hate India is India's treatment of Bangladeshi immigrants. As we all know, immigrant inflows and outflows are dictated largely by supply and demand. Poverty stricken Bangladesh has a large number of people willing to work very hard just to make enough to eat two square meals a day. India, despite its poverty and other problems, has many areas where an individual willing to work hard can make an honest living. And so a large number of Bangladeshis cross the border illegally to live and work in India.

India doesn't have a system of giving work permits to unskilled workers from anywhere in the world, except to people from Nepal (who don't need a work permit). However, India's borders, especially its eastern borders are porous and India doesn't have the sophisticated technology needed to prevent the inflow from Bangladesh. To be honest, not a single country in the world has been able to put a total stop to immigration.

Once the Bangladeshis are inside India, having the run the gauntlet of corrupt border security forces and cops, they are at risk of deportation at any time if they are caught. One assumes that these illegal immigrants develop no love for India during their stay in this country. In various parts of India's north-east, immigration from Bangladesh has taken place over many decades, even prior to independence. It is common for many landlords in Assam and Tripura to lease out their lands to hardworking Bangladeshi immigrants and take from them a part of the crop as rent. Many such immigrants have Indian ID cards and therefore have voting rights.

Since (as mentioned earlier) Bangladesh has always had a component of fundamentalist Muslims, it is only fair to assume that some of the illegal immigrants to India are fundamentalist Muslims. Not all fundamentalist Muslims are terrorists, or even supporters of terrorism, but some of the Bangladeshi immigrants in India are capable of causing trouble. I have no idea what percentage such people comprise. I assume it is not very large.

To be very honest, there is no clear-cut answer to the problem of illegal immigration from Bangladesh. In my opinion (and this is only an opinion), rather than having an outright ban on illegal immigrants, India should permit a fixed number of workers from Bangladesh to work in India on fixed-term, renewable, work permits. Work permits should be issued through employers or labour contractors who must shoulder some of the responsibility for the migrants once they are in India. Those given work permits will have their finger-prints and DNA on file and I assume it will be relatively easy to keep a tab on their whereabouts.

Legal immigrants have an incentive to be law abiding, irrespective of their personal ideology. Also, they will not be able to obtain fake Indian ID and vote in Indian elections. Regulating Bangladeshi immigration, rather than banning it outright, will also generate some goodwill towards India. It is very possible that some of those who come to India on work permits may indulge in acts that are harmful towards India. However, such individuals will not be stopped from entering India even if there is no work permit scheme in place.

As long as religion plays a major role in the life of the average Bangladeshi and the common Indian on the street, I don't think Indo-Bangla ties will get warmer beyond a point. One could say the same for Indo-Pakistani relations, but that's for another post.

inod Joseph is a professional who works long hours. When Vinod gets some free time, which is not very often, he likes to write. When he is not in the "write" frame of mind, he reads. Vinod�s first novel Hitchhiker was published by Books for Change in December 2005. Vinod blogs at www.winnowed.blogspot.com. The usual "employer caveat" applies and Vinod's employer has nothing to do with Vinod�s writings. All views expressed by Vinod are his personal views.

http://desicritics.org/2009/03/24/095016.php

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[mukto-mona] RE: In Retrospect: March 1971!

Excellent.

Keep it up.

As new elected President of Muslim Canadian Congress (that I have been the Director of Sharia Law for past 5 years) all my time goes to the struggle against the same devil in int'l arena including the Human Right Commission of the UN (Pakistan and Egypt already took it over on behalf of the Saudi-led OIC).

We have to keep it up.

Hasan Mahmud.

From: nightingale30@juno.com
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:17:32 +0000
To: rubelahsan@gmail.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; potheekaami@gmail.com; shuchinta@yahoogroups.com; Chetona71@yahoogroups.com; poplu@hotmail.com; uttorshuri@yahoo.com
CC: news@nybangla.com; fatemolla@hotmail.com; lopatasneem@yahoo.com
Subject: In Retrospect: March 1971!

Though truncated - moth eaten printing but wirthy to read and know the part of our history!
http://www.ittefaq.com/content/2009/03/26/news0477.htm
Be Well,

Saleem R. Noor
New York
USA

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Rock Solid Web Hosting. Click Here.

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Why Aren't Indo-Bangla Ties Warmer?

[mukto-mona] RE: In Retrospect: March 1971!

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