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Tuesday, February 14, 2012

Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly



There is no point to argue with people like Q. A. Rahman, who does not even read Quran regarding the chapters they talk about.  All they do is to click on a website written by another ignorant mullah.  Nowhere in Quran is mentioned that Ismael was taken for sacrifice, though being the elder son, it was his due.  But being illegitimate(born in a woman not married to Abraham), according to their own scripture, he was banished along with his mother to a place far from where Abraham lived.  One cannot both banish and sacrifice a son, besides the contemporary God Moloch/Melech/Malik would not accept an illegitimate son as sacrifice.  Allah(swt) was not the God of Abraham; according to the Old Testament, it was El Elyon instead, even Isaac and Jacob had different Gods.  Modern scholars(e.g.,Prof. Albright) believe, however,  God of Abraham was named El Shaddai, literally, a God with breasts.

Read Bible and you would find out that sacrificing the first child was practiced by the Jews at least till they were conquered by Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon.  Child sacrifice might have happened in India too, they were mostly thrown into water, not roasted for the consumption of the priests.  The tantrics/kapaliks killed adults to meditate sitting on their corpse.

I find nothing wrong in slaughtering cows in Bangladesh.  The religious Muslims should ensure that they are consuming the cows bought properly, not stolen and/or smuggled from India.  I also fail to realize how an animal bought a few days ago from a cowshed becomes 'the most favorite item' to be sacrificed for Allah(swt).  Roasting a brand new car could be closer to serving the divine command.

On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 5:13 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 


This probably would be my last comments on Q. A. Rahman's posts, at least for a while. Let me go point by point.
 
QAR: "In theory everything is possible. BUT this also means you are "Proposing" to impose your values on others!!"
 
SB: I was not proposing to impose anything on anyone. I was just trying to put some sense into the heads of people who are too brainwashed to find any imperfection, let alone faults, in the religion that they inherited from their parents. I probably should admit, how foolish of me to get into trying an unattainable goal! I am not sure what Mr. Rahman means by "your values." But I would certainly claim to have a superior value system than the average ignorant religious person of any kind.
 
QAR: "There are places in India where Muslims are not "Allowed" to slaughter cow. Last time I checked Bangladesh is not part of India."
 
SB: Good point! Some people in the world do sensible things voluntarily, some people are sensible because they are not allowed to act on their insensibility.
 
QAR: "Still ALL religious sentiments have to be considered. NOT just for one community for long term peace here."
 
SB: How is killing cow a religious sentiment for the Muslims? Their religious books certainly did not ask them to slaughter cow. So, is the sentiment like, "To prove that I am a Muslim, I have to show that I kill, with a lot of fanfare, the animal that the Hindus treat like a god?"
 
QAR: "The fundamental DIFFERENCE in Muslim and Hindu narrative is unlike Hindu tradition God of Abraham (Allah-SWT) did NOT want human's to be sacrificed. While many Hindu gods (According to the tradition) do accept such "Sacrifices"."
 
SB: I do not think a thoroughly brainwashed religious Muslim is in a position to judge the differences between Islam and any other religion. There are differences. Some differences would make Islam better; some differences would make Islam worse. Seriously religious people are too biased to see the faults in their own religion. Unfortunately, I do not have much time to talk about what I call "the primitive wisdoms" in the religions.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 3:32 AM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
 
I'll become crazy if I keep getting such big doses of 'knowledge'.


>>>>  
;-)

< From member Bain>

Muslims could certainly give up the extra 15% similarity

> out of respect for their neighbors, and out of caring for a harmonious
> coexistence with the neighbors, while following their own religious
> tradition.


>>>>>>>>>> In theory everything is possible. BUT this also means you are "Proposing" to impose your values on others!!

I can understand if the request is to hide the animal from public eye as a good neighbor. But your are actually "Bold" enough the propose this on the whole country.
During my university days, I had a Roommate (Still very good friends) who came from Hindu tradition. I never cooked beef in front of him albeit he gave me permission. That is courtesy and I understand that. But your proposal is only good for mindless debate in this forum but not a "Practical" solution for a whole country.

There are places in India where Muslims are not "Allowed" to slaughter cow. Last time I checked Bangladesh is not part of India. So I think more "Practical" solution can be reached. Otherwise our people would think a minority values have been imposed on us. Also beef is cheaper in Bangladesh (Because Indian Hindus have no problem selling cows to Muslims who would make beef curry out of it!) and a good source of protein. It would deprive many poor people from getting their protein intake. Still ALL religious sentiments have to be considered. NOT just for one community for long term peace here.


As far as I know, the pre-Islamic prophet Ibrahim
> was ready to sacrifice his son Ishmail to express his true devotion to God.
> The Hindus used to sacrifice little children to please their God by offering
> the purest/most sinless thing. Of course, this kind of human sacrifices
> would be seriously prosecuted in today's world, because we are civilized
> enough to realize that the person that is to be offered/sacrificed has a
> right to this world, which even his/her father can not take away; devotion
> to God or not.



>>>>>>>>> This is a good point. The fundamental DIFFERENCE in Muslim and Hindu narrative is unlike Hindu tradition God of Abraham (Allah-SWT) did NOT want human's to be sacrificed. While many Hindu gods (According to the tradition) do accept such "Sacrifices".

The Muslim story shows us Allah (SWT) want our love and devotion towards Him but NOT our sons!!



Again NOT here to criticize other views here BUT need to point out this FUNDAMENTAL difference in narratives.

Hope this will be some help those who seek to understand different point of views.

Shalom!

.




__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly



Animals are killed. They are killed in the name of religion, nutrition, and vanity (omuk mia this time bought a cow at Tk. 5 lac, or omuk babu scrificed ten pathas.) They are mostly done publicly in our subcontinent. You are not allowed to do it publicly in an advanced country. If you do it, you will be accused of committing cruelty to animals. Even you cannot show slaughter/sacrifice in images. This is civilized behavior. I have heard complaints about the way cows are slaughtered in the public areas. The mess made is unhygeinic. Meat eaters will slaughter animals. That should be O.K. Let us do it in a civilized manner. 

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly

 

This probably would be my last comments on Q. A. Rahman's posts, at least for a while. Let me go point by point.
 
QAR: "In theory everything is possible. BUT this also means you are "Proposing" to impose your values on others!!"
 
SB: I was not proposing to impose anything on anyone. I was just trying to put some sense into the heads of people who are too brainwashed to find any imperfection, let alone faults, in the religion that they inherited from their parents. I probably should admit, how foolish of me to get into trying an unattainable goal! I am not sure what Mr. Rahman means by "your values." But I would certainly claim to have a superior value system than the average ignorant religious person of any kind.
 
QAR: "There are places in India where Muslims are not "Allowed" to slaughter cow. Last time I checked Bangladesh is not part of India."
 
SB: Good point! Some people in the world do sensible things voluntarily, some people are sensible because they are not allowed to act on their insensibility.
 
QAR: "Still ALL religious sentiments have to be considered. NOT just for one community for long term peace here."
 
SB: How is killing cow a religious sentiment for the Muslims? Their religious books certainly did not ask them to slaughter cow. So, is the sentiment like, "To prove that I am a Muslim, I have to show that I kill, with a lot of fanfare, the animal that the Hindus treat like a god?"
 
QAR: "The fundamental DIFFERENCE in Muslim and Hindu narrative is unlike Hindu tradition God of Abraham (Allah-SWT) did NOT want human's to be sacrificed. While many Hindu gods (According to the tradition) do accept such "Sacrifices"."
 
SB: I do not think a thoroughly brainwashed religious Muslim is in a position to judge the differences between Islam and any other religion. There are differences. Some differences would make Islam better; some differences would make Islam worse. Seriously religious people are too biased to see the faults in their own religion. Unfortunately, I do not have much time to talk about what I call "the primitive wisdoms" in the religions.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 3:32 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
 
I'll become crazy if I keep getting such big doses of 'knowledge'.


>>>>  
;-)

< From member Bain>

Muslims could certainly give up the extra 15% similarity

> out of respect for their neighbors, and out of caring for a harmonious
> coexistence with the neighbors, while following their own religious
> tradition.


>>>>>>>>>> In theory everything is possible. BUT this also means you are "Proposing" to impose your values on others!!

I can understand if the request is to hide the animal from public eye as a good neighbor. But your are actually "Bold" enough the propose this on the whole country.
During my university days, I had a Roommate (Still very good friends) who came from Hindu tradition. I never cooked beef in front of him albeit he gave me permission. That is courtesy and I understand that. But your proposal is only good for mindless debate in this forum but not a "Practical" solution for a whole country.

There are places in India where Muslims are not "Allowed" to slaughter cow. Last time I checked Bangladesh is not part of India. So I think more "Practical" solution can be reached. Otherwise our people would think a minority values have been imposed on us. Also beef is cheaper in Bangladesh (Because Indian Hindus have no problem selling cows to Muslims who would make beef curry out of it!) and a good source of protein. It would deprive many poor people from getting their protein intake. Still ALL religious sentiments have to be considered. NOT just for one community for long term peace here.


As far as I know, the pre-Islamic prophet Ibrahim
> was ready to sacrifice his son Ishmail to express his true devotion to God.
> The Hindus used to sacrifice little children to please their God by offering
> the purest/most sinless thing. Of course, this kind of human sacrifices
> would be seriously prosecuted in today's world, because we are civilized
> enough to realize that the person that is to be offered/sacrificed has a
> right to this world, which even his/her father can not take away; devotion
> to God or not.



>>>>>>>>> This is a good point. The fundamental DIFFERENCE in Muslim and Hindu narrative is unlike Hindu tradition God of Abraham (Allah-SWT) did NOT want human's to be sacrificed. While many Hindu gods (According to the tradition) do accept such "Sacrifices".

The Muslim story shows us Allah (SWT) want our love and devotion towards Him but NOT our sons!!



Again NOT here to criticize other views here BUT need to point out this FUNDAMENTAL difference in narratives.

Hope this will be some help those who seek to understand different point of views.

Shalom!

.




__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
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Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly




This probably would be my last comments on Q. A. Rahman's posts, at least for a while. Let me go point by point.
 
QAR: "In theory everything is possible. BUT this also means you are "Proposing" to impose your values on others!!"
 
SB: I was not proposing to impose anything on anyone. I was just trying to put some sense into the heads of people who are too brainwashed to find any imperfection, let alone faults, in the religion that they inherited from their parents. I probably should admit, how foolish of me to get into trying an unattainable goal! I am not sure what Mr. Rahman means by "your values." But I would certainly claim to have a superior value system than the average ignorant religious person of any kind.
 
QAR: "There are places in India where Muslims are not "Allowed" to slaughter cow. Last time I checked Bangladesh is not part of India."
 
SB: Good point! Some people in the world do sensible things voluntarily, some people are sensible because they are not allowed to act on their insensibility.
 
QAR: "Still ALL religious sentiments have to be considered. NOT just for one community for long term peace here."
 
SB: How is killing cow a religious sentiment for the Muslims? Their religious books certainly did not ask them to slaughter cow. So, is the sentiment like, "To prove that I am a Muslim, I have to show that I kill, with a lot of fanfare, the animal that the Hindus treat like a god?"
 
QAR: "The fundamental DIFFERENCE in Muslim and Hindu narrative is unlike Hindu tradition God of Abraham (Allah-SWT) did NOT want human's to be sacrificed. While many Hindu gods (According to the tradition) do accept such "Sacrifices"."
 
SB: I do not think a thoroughly brainwashed religious Muslim is in a position to judge the differences between Islam and any other religion. There are differences. Some differences would make Islam better; some differences would make Islam worse. Seriously religious people are too biased to see the faults in their own religion. Unfortunately, I do not have much time to talk about what I call "the primitive wisdoms" in the religions.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 3:32 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
 
I'll become crazy if I keep getting such big doses of 'knowledge'.


>>>>  
;-)

< From member Bain>

Muslims could certainly give up the extra 15% similarity

> out of respect for their neighbors, and out of caring for a harmonious
> coexistence with the neighbors, while following their own religious
> tradition.


>>>>>>>>>> In theory everything is possible. BUT this also means you are "Proposing" to impose your values on others!!

I can understand if the request is to hide the animal from public eye as a good neighbor. But your are actually "Bold" enough the propose this on the whole country.
During my university days, I had a Roommate (Still very good friends) who came from Hindu tradition. I never cooked beef in front of him albeit he gave me permission. That is courtesy and I understand that. But your proposal is only good for mindless debate in this forum but not a "Practical" solution for a whole country.

There are places in India where Muslims are not "Allowed" to slaughter cow. Last time I checked Bangladesh is not part of India. So I think more "Practical" solution can be reached. Otherwise our people would think a minority values have been imposed on us. Also beef is cheaper in Bangladesh (Because Indian Hindus have no problem selling cows to Muslims who would make beef curry out of it!) and a good source of protein. It would deprive many poor people from getting their protein intake. Still ALL religious sentiments have to be considered. NOT just for one community for long term peace here.


As far as I know, the pre-Islamic prophet Ibrahim
> was ready to sacrifice his son Ishmail to express his true devotion to God.
> The Hindus used to sacrifice little children to please their God by offering
> the purest/most sinless thing. Of course, this kind of human sacrifices
> would be seriously prosecuted in today's world, because we are civilized
> enough to realize that the person that is to be offered/sacrificed has a
> right to this world, which even his/her father can not take away; devotion
> to God or not.



>>>>>>>>> This is a good point. The fundamental DIFFERENCE in Muslim and Hindu narrative is unlike Hindu tradition God of Abraham (Allah-SWT) did NOT want human's to be sacrificed. While many Hindu gods (According to the tradition) do accept such "Sacrifices".

The Muslim story shows us Allah (SWT) want our love and devotion towards Him but NOT our sons!!



Again NOT here to criticize other views here BUT need to point out this FUNDAMENTAL difference in narratives.

Hope this will be some help those who seek to understand different point of views.

Shalom!

.


__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
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__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2



Apparently, the wise qar is wiser than A. J. Arberry, and may be wiser than the messenger Gibreel!

On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 1:17 AM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 

Again coping from orientalist "Crap".

The Surah Taubah verse (Chapter 9:5) has NOTHING to do with killing everyone. Again READ the chapter and gain some knowledge before you want to critic it.


I am offering a link to the whole chapter. FEEL FREE to read it and judge it for yourself. We have NOTHING to hide and it is consistent with peaceful teaching of Islam.


And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not. How can there be a treaty with Allah and with His messenger for the idolaters save those with whom ye made a treaty at the Inviolable Place of Worship? So long as they are true to you, be true to them. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty. How (can there be any treaty for the others) when, if they have the upper hand of you, they regard not pact nor honour in respect of you? They satisfy you with their mouths the while their hearts refuse. And most of them are wrongdoers.


[ Source: Al Qur'an chapter 9:6-8]


Once again this was all about some idol worshipers of Mecca BREAKING a peace treaty with Muslims. The Qur'an specifically said to give protection to all those who honored their pledges.


Hope it helps.....


Shalom!!!

-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:47 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2

108. Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. Thus have We made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end will they return to their Lord, and We shall then tell them the truth of all that they did. This is a Meccan Verse, where Allah/Muhammad is hopeful of convincing the non-believers that 'we are on the right path'. This however is amply contradicted in the verses revealed in Medina, e.g., "Slay wherever you find them"; "Fight those who believe not in Allah and the last day and do not forbid what God and his messenger have forbidden....fight the unbelievers totally..." elsewhere in the same verse(Surah al-Tawba). Such examples are numerous, I just cited two of them. On 2/14/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote: > I will check the Sura, if Mr. Chakravarty wants me to do it. The problem > is that the 'Holy Quran' and 'Holy Hadith' are full of contradictions, or > contra-indications as Mr. Zakir Naik loves to call them. It is good, if > the religious persons abide by the appeasing Surahs rather than the > inciting ones. As evidenced by history, Jihad might bring about their own > destruction sooner than the doom's day. The almighty Allah may not always > serve the cause of Islam. > > On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:39 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty > <subimal@yahoo.com>wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Probably Kamal Das can verify if the Sura quoted below by Mr. Hannan is >> right. If it is really there, I have broadness of mind to praise it. >> Assuming it is there, does Mr. Hannan really believe in it? I am >> suspicious >> as their role was quite different in 1971. Also their attitude towards >> Ahmediyas is not consistent with what he is proudly quoting. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 13, 2012, at 8:34 AM, Robin Khundkar <rkhundkar@earthlink.net> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> *Calling off the attack dogs after the deed is done Eh Mr Ex >> Secretary.... with the mile long CV ! * >> >> *Oh how generous of you!! I recommend you be awarded the HUMANITARIAN of >> the year!!! * >> >> *You are the very essense of Human Kindness!!! * >> >> *Very Touching!!!!! * >> >> *NOT........* >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: S A Hannan ** >> Sent: Feb 12, 2012 7:59 PM >> To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com, 'Mohiuddin Anwar' **, >> ovimot@yahoogroups.com, faithcomilla@gmail.com, chottola@yahoogroups.com, >> dahuk@yahoogroups.com, nazrulic@gmail.com >> Cc: chottala@yahoogroups.com, chetona71@yahoogroups.com, >> jnrsr53@yahoo.com, >> guhasb@gmail.com, joybanglanews@gmail.com, captchowdhury@yahoo.ca, >> srbanunz@gmail.com, manik195709@yahoo.com, deshpremik197159@yahoo.com, >> rkhundkar@earthlink.net, farida_majid@hotmail.com >> Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2 >> >> ********** **************** ** ******************************** >> >> If any injustice is done any where on Hindus, this is Haram.Destroying >> their temples or deities is Haram.( See verse 108 of Sura Anam, one of >> the >> verses from which these rules have been derived by Muslim jurists).Any >> Hindu Bashing is prohibited in Islam.**** >> >> All criminals should be punished.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> No bashing of any religious community is acceptable.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Shah Abdul Hannan**** >> >> ** ** >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* **mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com** [mailto:** >> mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**] *On Behalf Of *Anis Ahmed >> *Sent:* Monday, February 13, 2012 12:02 AM >> *To:* Mohiuddin Anwar; ovimot@yahoogroups.com; faithcomilla@gmail.com; ** >> mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**; chottola@yahoogroups.com; >> dahuk@yahoogroups.com; **nazrul**ic@gmail.com >> *Cc:* chottala@yahoogroups.com; chetona71@yahoogroups.com; >> jnrsr53@yahoo.com; guhasb@gmail.com; joybanglanews@gmail.com; >> captchowdhury@yahoo.ca; srbanunz@gmail.com; manik195709@yahoo.com; >> deshpremik197159@yahoo.com; rkhundkar@earthlink.net; >> farida_majid@hotmail.com >> *Subject:* [mukto-mona] Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2**** >> >> ** ** >> >> **** >> **** >> >> Mr Anwar you have not been able to refute my arguments that a crime is a >> crime and it should not be identified by one's religious beliefs. I >> suspect >> , you haven't understood my point. If Sheikh Hasina or her party is doing >> anything mischievous , people will vote them out as did Khaleda Zia in >> 2008 following a chain of terorrist attacks and major killings. **** >> >> ** ** >> >> Moreover, if Hasina does not punish Pijush it may be for a number reasons >> , (a) Pijush perhaps did not kill the Shibir Cadres, (b) Hasina probably >> will protect Pijush from partisan point of view which is really bad >> although not new in the history of ****Bangladesh**** politics . We may >> not forget how Mrs Zia protected Bangla Bhai and their associates in her >> party calling it merely as media propaganda. So both of them have been >> subject to identical criticism . **** >> >> ** ** >> >> However , why do you have to bring in ****India**** here even if Hasina >> wrongfully protects Pijush. Pijush is a Bangladeshi citizen . He has got >> absolutely nothing to do with ****India**** . So you're still playing the >> role of a propagandist rather than being objectively critical of the >> mistakes which the government may have been making . Your deliberate >> attempt to bring in unconnected points for the sake of propaganda is >> subject to criticism . I have made my points absolutely clear but I wont >> support your fishing in the troubled water:).**** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Mohiuddin Anwar <mohiuddin@netzero.net> >> *To:* aanis06@yahoo.com; ovimot@yahoogroups.com; faithcomilla@gmail.com; >> * >> *mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**; chottola@yahoogroups.com; >> dahuk@yahoogroups.com; **nazrul**ic@gmail.com >> *Cc:* ovimot@yahoogroups.com; chottala@yahoogroups.com; >> chetona71@yahoogroups.com; chottola@yahoogroups.com; jnrsr53@yahoo.com; >> guhasb@gmail.com; **mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**; >> joybanglanews@gmail.com; >> captchowdhury@yahoo.ca; srbanunz@gmail.com; manik195709@yahoo.com; >> deshpremik197159@yahoo.com; rkhundkar@earthlink.net; >> farida_majid@hotmail.com >> *Sent:* Sunday, February 12, 2012 12:24 PM >> *Subject:* Re: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2 **** >> >> ** ** >> >> Mr. Anis,**** >> >> **** >> >> I can challenge to you that, current ****India**** friendly Hasina regime >> won't arrest or disturb or prosecute Criminal killer Chatro League's >> armed >> cadre Pijush.**** >> >> Do you accept my challenge pleaere say yes or no.**** >> >> Don't bring other killings of the past to compare recent killing of two >> Chatro League opponents in Chottogram by golden boy of Hasina Sri >> Pijush. >> **** >> >> When we see a ruling party cadre attacking their opponents in and >> photographed by news reporters and Piolice taking no action to arrest the >> killers,**** >> >> we can imagine that jungles rule is prevailing under India-friendly >> Hasina regime.**** >> >> Jungles rule must end in Bangladeshn sooner than later.**** >> >> Those who protectinmg the killers will pay heavy price in coming days, >> make no doubt about it. Nobody can protectr the killers forever..**** >> >> All Pijush's will be prosecuted Inshallah.**** >> >> Thanks for your time to read my comment.**** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> >> ---------- Original Message ---------- >> From: Anis Ahmed <aanis06@yahoo.com> >> To: Mohiuddin Anwar <mohiuddin@netzero.net>, "ovimot@yahoogroups.com" < >> ovimot@yahoogroups.com>, "chottala@yahoogroups.com" < >> chottala@yahoogroups.com>, "chetona71@yahoogroups.com" < >> chetona71@yahoogroups.com>, "chottola@yahoogroups.com" < >> chottola@yahoogroups.com> >> Cc: "jnrsr53@yahoo.com" <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>, "guhasb@gmail.com" < >> guhasb@gmail.com>, "**mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**" <** >> mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com**>, "joybanglanews@gmail.com" < >> joybanglanews@gmail.com>, "captchowdhury@yahoo.ca" < >> captchowdhury@yahoo.ca>, "srbanunz@gmail.com" <srbanunz@gmail.com>, " >> manik195709@yahoo.com" <manik195709@yahoo.com>, " >> deshpremik197159@yahoo.com" <deshpremik197159@yahoo.com>, " >> rkhundkar@earthlink.net" <rkhundkar@earthlink.net>, " >> farida_majid@hotmail.com" <farida_majid@hotmail.com
> >> Subject: STOP HINDU BASHING / PART 2 >> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 23:24:23 -0800 (PST)**** >> >> ** ** >> >> **** >> ******** >> >> >> > ------------------------------------ **************************************************** Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: Call For Articles:
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****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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[mukto-mona] Fw: [KHABOR] Media




----- Forwarded Message -----
From: modasser khosseine <bolonhome@hotmail.com>
To: Khabor News <khabor@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 4:52 PM
Subject: [KHABOR] Media [2 Attachments]

 
Dear All,
 
I have attached the news, please read it.
Thanks,









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****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
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[mukto-mona] রাজনীতি উত্তপ্ত, না ষড়যন্ত্র তুঙ্গে?



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রাজনীতি উত্তপ্ত, না ষড়যন্ত্র তুঙ্গে?
বেলাল বেগ
সাংবাদিক এবিএম মূসা সম্ভবত আমাদের সর্বোচ্চ বয়সী সাংবাদিক। তাঁর অভিজ্ঞতাসমৃদ্ধ সরস বুদ্ধিদীপ্ত আলোচনা ও লেখা জাতির জন্য প্রায়ই পথনির্দেশক হয়ে থাকে বলে অনেকে মনে করেন। তাঁর মতামত পক্ষে-বিপক্ষে যতই যাক না কেন, শ্রোতারা তা পুরোটাই শোনে। কোথাও তেমন প্রতিবাদ হয় না। প্রতিবাদ না হওয়াটার মানে এই নয় যে, মূসা ভাই যা বলেছেন তা সত্য এবং কেবলই সত্য। কিন্তু এ প্রতিবাদ না হবার একটা ক্ষতিকারক দিক আছে। কলামিস্ট এবং আলোচক এবিএম মূসা নিজেই ভেবে বসতে পারেন তিনি যা বলেছেন সেটা সত্য এবং একমাত্র সত্য। এমনও তো হতে পারে যে, ধীমান সাংবাদিকরা এ বয়সে মুরব্বির মনে কষ্ট দিতে চান না। তাঁর সাম্প্রতিক কিছু মন্তব্য বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা ও সার্বভৌমত্বের বিরুদ্ধে না গেলে এ লেখকও মুরব্বির মুখের ওপর কথা না বলার প্রাচ্য-ঐতিহ্য অনুসরণ করতেন। তিনি যেন এ ভুলটা না করেন, তা সবিনয়ে স্মরণ করিয়ে দেয়ার জন্যই এ লেখা।
চ্যানেল আইতে সাংবাদিক মতিয়ুর রহমানের সঙ্গে পুলিশের গুলিতে নাগরিকের মৃত্যুর সাম্প্রতিক ঘটনা নিয়ে আলোচনার সূত্রপাত হতে না হতেই মূসা ভাই বলে বসলেন, এ সরকার রাজনৈতিক সমস্যার সমাধান, আইনশৃক্সখলা রক্ষা, দুর্নীতি দমন, দ্রব্যমূল্য নিয়ন্ত্রণ ইত্যাদি সকল ক্ষেত্রে সর্বতোভাবে ব্যর্থ একটি সরকার। এখন গুলি করে মানুষ মারায় এ সরকার সম্বন্ধে কোন কথা বলতেই তাঁর ইচ্ছা করে না। তাই বলে অনুষ্ঠানের বাকি সময়টা যে চুপ করেছিলেন, তা নয়।
এ সরকারকে সম্পূর্ণ ব্যর্থ বলা মির্জা ফখরুল, জয়নাল ফারুকদেরই শোভা পায়। আওয়ামী লীগ যদি আল্লাহ আছে বলে, বিএনপি-জামায়াত আল্লাহ নেই বলবে, এমনটাই জনগণ বিশ্বাস করে। এখন তাদের সঙ্গে দেশের সর্বজ্যেষ্ঠ সাংবাদিক কণ্ঠ মেলালে জনগণ বিষম খাবে বৈকি। যে যে বিষয় নিয়ে জনগণ সরকারের ওপর অগ্নিশর্মা হয়, বাংলাদেশের ইতিহাসে এই প্রথমবার তারা ঐগুলোতেই মহাখুশি। সাংবাদিক মূসা বলুন, অতীতের কোন সরকার হাসিনা সরকারের মতো শি¶া, কৃষি ও খাদ্যের মতো জরুরী বিষয়ে এত সাফল্য অর্জন করেছে? শহরে বিদ্যুত সরবরাহ বন্ধ করে সেচের জন্য যেদিন বিদ্যুত সরবরাহ করা হলো, সেদিনই মোসাহেবী পেতে অভ্যস্ত শহুরে গণমাধ্যম নেতাদের জানা উচিত ছিল, বঙ্গবন্ধুর শনাক্ত করা 'সাফকাপুইড়্যাদের' গলাবাজি শোনার সময় এ সরকারের নেই। সংখ্যাগরিষ্ঠ জনগণের সমর্থনের নিশ্চিত ভ‚মিতে পা রয়েছে এ সরকারের। তা নয়ত চল্লিশ বছর ধরে যা সম্ভব হয়নি একাত্তরের সে ঘৃণিত ঘাতকদের বিচার এখন কিভাবে সম্ভব হচ্ছে?
দুর্নীতি দমন, দ্রব্যমূল্য নিয়ন্ত্রণ, ফটকাবাজির শেয়ারবাজার নিয়ন্ত্রণ ইত্যাদি নিয়ে জনগণ বেশি দুশ্চিন্তায় ভোগে না। কারণ তারা জানে ক্রসফায়ার নামক বিনাবিচারে মানুষ মারার ফন্দি করেও এ দেশে অপরাধ দমন করা যায় না। যে দেশ দুর্নীতিতে পরপর তিনবার চ্যাম্পিয়ন হয়, হাসিনার এক সরকার আমলেই তার চরিত্র ফুলের মতো পবিত্র হবে, এমন হাস্যাস্পদ কথা জনগণ বিশ্বাস করে না। দুর্ভাগ্যবশত দুূর্নীতিতে জনগণেরই সায় রয়েছে- তাদের যুক্তি- আগের সরকারের নেতাকর্মীরা ভোগ করতে পারলে এরা কেন পারবে না? বস্তুত ধনবাদী শাসনব্যবস্থার বুনিয়াদই হচ্ছে চুরি- জোচ্চুরি, সংবিধানে 'সমাজতন্ত্র' থাকলেও আওয়ামী লীগ ঐ পথে হাঁটেনি। তার ওপর আরও কথা, টাকা-পয়সা খরচ করে যারা নির্বাচন করে, তাদের প্রথম লক্ষ্যই তো খরচটা উঠিয়ে পরবর্তী নির্বাচনের খরচ সংগ্রহ করা। আমাদের নির্বাচন প্রথাই তো দুর্নীতির ধারক ও বাহক। মাছ যেমন জলে বাস করে, বাংলাদেশের মানুষ তেমন দুর্নীতিতে বাস করে। শেয়ারবাজারের ওঠানামা, দ্রব্যমূল্য বৃদ্ধি দুর্নীতির একই সুরে বাঁধা দুটি গান। আসল কথা, বাংলাদেশের জনগণ দুর্নীতিবাজদের সমর্থন দেয় বলেই তো বাংলাদেশ আজও দুর্নীতিতে সমীহ জাগানো দেশ। তাই বগলের গন্ধের জন্য আওয়ামী লীগকে একা দোষ দিয়ে মূসা সাহেব ¯^াধীনতা ও সার্বভৌমত্ববিরোধীদের প্রচারাভিযানকেই জোরদার করার অপচেষ্টা করেছেন!
সাংবাদিক এবিএম মূসা কর্তৃক রাজনৈতিক সমস্যা সমাধান করে গণতন্ত্র প্রতিষ্ঠায় আওয়ামী লীগের ব্যর্থতাকে দায়ী করাটা ছিল আমার জন্য সর্বাদিক বিস্ময়ের কারণ। গণতন্ত্র প্রতিষ্ঠা একজন নেতা, একটি বা দুটি রাজনৈতিক দলের জমিদারি ব্যবস্থাপনা নয়। এটি বিপুল সময় ধরে একটি জনগোষ্ঠীর অবিরাম সংগ্রামের ফসল। তবে এটা ঠিক, অবাধ নিরপেক্ষ নির্বাচনে নির্বাচিত রাজনৈতিক দলগুলো যদি এই পার্লামেন্টকে সার্থক করতে পারত, বাংলাদেশের গণতন্ত্রায়ন অনেকদূর এগিয়ে যেত। কিন্তু চারদলীয় জোটের পার্লামেন্ট বর্জনের কারণে তা অন্তত এবার আর হলো না। এ ব্যর্থতার জন্য আওয়ামী লীগকে দোষ দেয়ায় একটা জিনিস স্পষ্ট যে বরেণ্য, জ্যেষ্ঠ সাংবাদিক বাংলাদেশের রাজনীতির সমুদ্রতলের জীবন্ত আগ্নেয়গিরিটির কথা বেমালুম ভুলে গেছেন। বিএনপির জন্ম, জামায়াতের পুনর্বাসন যে বাংলাদেশের মুক্তিযুদ্ধ ও স্বাধীনতাকে কবর দেয়ার জন্যই হয়েছে, বঙ্গবন্ধুর হত্যাকারীদের অগ্রিম বার্তায় তা ধরা দিলেও সাংবাদিক মূসা তা আমলে নিলেন না। না কি কবি আল মাহমুদের মতো তিনিও সমাজ ও ইতিহাস দেখার চশমা বদল করেছেন। বঙ্গবন্ধুকে কেবল হত্যা নয়, সপরিবারে হত্যা করা হয়েছে, জেলখানায় বন্দী নিরস্ত্র দেশপ্রেমিক জাতীয় নেতাদের হত্যা করা হয়েছে কেবলমাত্র আজকের এ ধর্মধাপ্পাবাজ পাকিস্তানী জারজদের প্রতিষ্ঠার জন্য। হত্যার মধ্য দিয়ে চালু রাজনৈতিক দলে জিঘাংসা থাকে, গণতন্ত্র থাকতে পারে না। জামায়াতে ইসলামীর কাছে পার্লামেন্ট ও গণতন্ত্র শরিয়তবিরোধী কিন্তু তারপরেও ওরা নির্বাচন করে। কারণ গণতন্ত্রের কাঁটা দিয়ে গণতন্ত্র ধ্বংসই তাদের উদ্দেশ্য। বিএনপি যদি গণতন্ত্র চাইত তাহলে তো পার্লামেন্টেই যোগ দিত। এখন তারা পরিষ্কার ঘোষণা দিয়েছে তারা গণভ্যুত্থান করে এ সরকার উৎখাত করবে। অর্থাৎ রক্তপাতই তাদের ল¶্য। জামায়াতে ইসলামীর জন্য আওয়ামী লীগের ধ্বংস ব্যতীত বিকল্প নেই। যুদ্ধাপরাধীদের ফাঁসি মানে তাদের বিলুপ্তি। তাই ইসলামী বিপ্লবের নামে তারা খুনোখুনি করবেই।
এবিএম মূসা কর্তৃক ঘোষিত ব্যর্থ আওয়ামী সরকার বাংলাদেশের গণমাধ্যমসমূহকে অবারিত ¯^াধীনতা দিয়ে রেখেছে। দায়িত্ববোধের লাগাম না থাকলে, ¯^াধীনতা উচ্ছৃক্সখল ¯ে^চ্ছাচারিতা হয়ে যায়। জনগণের সার্বভৌমত্ব, ইতিহাস-ঐতিহ্য, তার সংবিধান, তার আশা-আকাক্সক্ষা যেন সমুন্নত থাকে সেদিকে মিডিয়াসমূহের সতর্ক থাকতে হবে।

লেখক: কলামিস্ট ও যুক্তরাষ্ট্র প্রবাসী



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Re: [mukto-mona] Temple & Deity destrucion news from Chittagong



Islamic teachings and scriptures do not support attacking innocent people or destroy houses of worship. There are tons of incidents also where Muslims won battles but intentionally stayed away from destroying house of worship to honor teachings of Islam.

Let me share a letter prophet Muhammad (PBUH) wrote to Christian monks during his time. Please click here to read it.


Shalom!!


-----Original Message-----
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 14, 2012 8:49 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Temple & Deity destrucion news from Chittagong

 
The historical fact is that many muslim conquerers, rulers, fanatics, militants, and miscreants have destoyed houses of worship of other religious communities. Even Shiite mosques are being bombed by Sunnis. You may get a lot of examples from the past as well as from the present. But if you say those who have done this or are still doing this are not true muslims, then that's a different matter.

From: Mohammad Choudhury <msuc@hotmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 9:14 PM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Temple & Deity destrucion news from Chittagong
 
It's against Islam to destroy anything or hate any human being whatever religion he/she follows [even in Islamic state any one can freely practice any religion, as "No compulsion in the religion"]. A Muslim is the one who follows the True Guidance, the Qur'an, which have been revealed for guidance of all human beings and in absence of the Prophet (sas) each and every Muslim is a representative of the Prophet to give the messages of the Qur'an to others who are not Muslims. It naturally follows that a Muslim cannot hate, undermine or even dishonor a non-Muslim since that person is a potential Muslim. This is the main reason for which a Muslim should honor any non-Muslim as his/her brother/sister [since Adam was our father and all human beings are from him] and give da'wa with wisdom. So how can a Muslim destroy a Church, Synagogue,  Temple or any other place of worship of any other human being? The main purpose of a Muslim's life will be shattered.

Mohammad Shu'a Uddin Choudhury
To: jnrsr53@yahoo.com; aanis06@yahoo.com; anis.ahmed@netzero.net; ovimot@yahoogroups.com; muktomoncho@yahoo.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.comCC: captchowdhury@yahoo.ca; srbanunz@gmail.com; manik195709@yahoo.comFrom: mohiuddin@netzero.netDate: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 03:47:18 +0000Subject: Fw: [mukto-mona] Temple & Deity destrucion news from Chittagong  
Mr. Roy,
 
Please send this video to Bangladesh  Prime Ministers office and BHBCUC(Bangladesh Hindu Bouddho Christian Unity Council)as well as to HRW office.
Hasina's chatukars won't let her watch this video,I believe.
Thanks for posting this important video.
Sincere3ly,
---------- Forwarded Message ----------From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.comSubject: [mukto-mona] Temple & Deity destrucion news from ChittagongDate: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:18:24 -0800 (PST) 
Please click on the link below to see the Temple and Deity destruction in Chittagong. You can also play a video clip in the link by clicking on the arrow:
 
 
Jiten Roy
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****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
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