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Monday, October 15, 2012

Re: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--রামু, সাম্প্রদায়িকতা ও অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা ---Ramu, Communalism and Noncommunalism



Those who believe that God was very concerned with prehistoric small human communities that he sent messengers to solve their problems and he is somehow not worried about the problems of the present day global world must subscribe to the idea that 'God is dead'.  Arguing with such people is really a wastage of time.

On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 8:46 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

The father of Jamaat Islami Mowdudi was tried for instigating anti-Ahmadi riot in Pakistan. Several years ago there were troubles in Bangladesh too. The State of Pakistan declared the Ahmadies non-Muslims. I am sure Jamaat Islami and other so called Islam Pasand parties gave strong support to the move by the Pakistani govt. Denial of Jamaat Islami involvement on this will be big lie. I have Muslim friends belonging to the Ahmadi sect. I know how much proud they are to be identified as Muslims. Why should the State, Islamic clerics and Jamaat Islami decide their religious identity? Any way with the kind of ideological belief and mindset you have you guys will make life of these people unsafe. 
A secular and democratic country tries to allow maximum individual rights. It also includes all the great and universal teachings from all religions and cultures. A State does not need to be religious explicitly. A religious State I'd divisive which is not good for world peace and progress. 
I will be looking forward to hearing from you more on this issue. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 14, 2012, at 11:01 AM, "S A Hannan" <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com> wrote:

 

Ahmadies are non-Muslims whether they are declared to be so by the state or not..Jamaat Islami has nothing on Ahmadi issue in the manifesto of theirs.

I think basic Hindu code is what Bed has taught. As for Christians, it is the moral lessons preached by Jesus found in four gospels.

 

Shah Abdul Hannan

 


From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Subimal Chakrabarty


Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 7:41 PM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Cc: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--
রামু, সাম্প্রদায়িকতা অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা ---Ramu, Communalism and Noncommunalism

 

 

I have humble questions for Mr. Hannan. If Jamaat-i-Islam comes to power in Bangladesh, will they try to declare the Ahamadiyas non-Muslims? What is Indian constitution lacking now and how can these lackings be fixed by Hindu religious teachings? What Hindu religious teachings has he in his mind? Caste-ism or teachings of Manu? What are the Christian moral codes that the Christians in the West are not following? No abortion at all? 


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 13, 2012, at 10:06 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

Mr. Hannan,

I heard from many others before, but - you are consistent in your views; that's quite interesting.

Thanks.

Jiten Roy
--- On Fri, 10/12/12, S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com> wrote:


From: S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
Subject: FW: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--
রামু, সাম্প্রদায়িকতা অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা ---Ramu, Communalism and Noncommunalism
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, October 12, 2012, 11:46 PM

 

correcyed

 


From: S A Hannan [mailto:sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com]
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 11:52 AM
To: ' mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com '
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--
রামু, সাম্প্রদায়িকতা অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা ---Ramu, Communalism and Noncommunalism

 

Dear Mr.Jiten Roy,

I would love to see India ruled by Hindu religious teachings, only condition is fundamental rights of Non-Hindus should be guaranteed in the constitution. Similarly if the West rules by teaching and  moral code of Christianity, the world will be freed from much of immorality, selfishness, materialism etc.

In the state of Madina established by the Prophet, the state was based on Islam but all citizens including the Jews had similar rights.

Islamic states will not be theocracy; they would be ruled by elected people.

Shah Abdul HannanI

 


From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jiten Roy
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 6:00 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--
রামু, সাম্প্রদায়িকতা অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা ---Ramu, Communalism and Noncommunalism

 

 

Many Islamic leaders aspire for religious theocratic states, wherever they are majority. This is one of the Islamist doctrines and goals. When Muslim population gains near majority in any area, Islamists start to promote the idea that - Muslims aren't allowed to be governed by non-Muslims, and they initiate the process to control the power of that area. Islamists are Muslim-supremists, much like Nazis or skinheads (KKK). They are driven by the doctrine of Islamic Ummah.




__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: Pls Publish Dada!



I THINK THIS DEMONSTRATION AGAINST THE CULPRIT  NOT AGAINST THE PRESENT GOVERNMENT.
WHO ARE THEY ? YOU KNOW THE ANSWER.
1971 WHO DID THE ATROCITIES IN BANGLADESH IN THE NAME OF ISLAM.
THINK  PLEASE.
SYSTEMATIC WAY THEY DID IT . ACCORDING TO MEDIA NEWS.
  
 

 
From: Sitangshu Guha <guhasb@gmail.com>
To: Khobor <khabor@yahoogroups.com>; mokto mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 11:01 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Fwd: Pls Publish Dada! [1 Attachment]
 


---------- Forwarded message ----------From: Taslima Moon
বাংলাদেশে বৌদ্ধ সমপ্রদায়ের উপর হামলায় সুইডেনের রাজধানীতে প্রতিবাদ সমাবেশ
সামগ্রিক নাগরিক সমাজের অংশগ্রহনে সুইডেনের রাজধানী স্টকহোমে কক্সবাজার এলাকার রামু, উখিয়া, পটিয়ায় বৌদ্ধ পল্লীতে সংঘটিত  সহিংসতার বিরুদ্ধে আজ ১৪ অক্টবর ২০১২ এক প্রতিবাদ মানব-বন্ধন সম্পন্ন হয়। 
বৌদ্ধ অধ্যুষিত গ্রামগুলোতে সন্ত্রাসীরা  গত ২৯ শে সেপ্টেম্বর  হামলা এবং অগ্নি সংযোগে বাড়ি ঘর জ্বালিয়ে দেওয়া সহ ৩০০ বছরের পুরনো দুটো মন্দিরসহ ১১ টি মন্দির জ্বালিয়ে দেয় এবং তাদের অমূল্য বৌদ্ধ মূর্তি গুলো ভাংচুর ও লুটপাট করে। গ্রামে গ্রামে বৌদ্ধদের ব্যবসা প্রতিষ্ঠানে হামলা চালিয়ে সব মালামাল দুষ্কৃতিকারীরা লুটপাট করে নিয়ে যাওয়া সহ এহেন ঘৃন্য নাশকতার বিরুদ্ধে প্রতিবাদ সমাবেশ সংঘটিত হয়।
সচেতন নাগরিক সমন্বয়ে এ সামবেশটির আয়োজক  শেখ তাসলিমা মুন আলাদা আলাদা ভাবে সকল শ্রেনী সংগঠনের প্রতিনিধিদের কাছে তাদের প্রতিক্রিয়া জানতে চাইলে সুইডেন আওয়ামলীগের প্রতিনিধি ড. ফরহাদ আলী খান এই ঘটনা বিষয়ে তার ব্যাক্তিগত এবং দলীয় অভিব্যাক্তি ব্যাক্ত করেন। তিনি এ ঘটনার তীব্র নিন্দা জানান। তিনি দ্ব্যার্থহীন ভাবে এই নৃশংস ঘটনার বিচার নিশ্চিত করার বিষয়ে তার এবং  তার দলের ভুমিকা বিষয়ে দৃঢ় প্রত্যয় ব্যাক্ত করেন। 
এছাড়া এ সমাবেশে বাংলাদেশ হিন্দু বৌদ্ধ ক্রিশ্চিয়ান ইউনিটি কাউন্লসিল এবং সেক্যুলার ফোরাম ফর বাংলাদেশের সাধারন সম্পাদক মিঃ তরুন কান্তি চৌধুরী বাংলাদেশের সংখ্যালঘুর উপর সকল আক্রমনের বিরুদ্ধে তীব্র প্রতিবাদ জানান। তিনি বাংলাদেশের সকল সংখ্যালঘুর ধর্ম এবং জীবন যাপনের নিরাপত্তা দাবী করেন।
বাংলাদেশ আদিবাসী কম্যুনিটির প্রতিনিধি হিসেবে উপস্থিত থাকেন মিঃ তপন চাকমা, শ্রিমতি সোনা তালুকদার এবং সিংগু চাকমা।
আদিবাসী প্রতিনিধি হিসবে মিসেস সোনা তালুকদার পার্বত্য এলাকায় তাদের উপর যে নির্যাতন চলছে তার ভয়াবহতা বিষয়ে আলোকপাত করেন। তিনি আদিবাসীদের সাংবিধানিক অধিকার নিশ্চিত করার জন্য সকল শ্রেনী সংগঠনের প্রতি আহবান জানান। তিনি তার বক্তব্যে বলেন বাংলাদেশের একটি এলাকায় তাদের নিজদেশে পরবাসী করে রাখা হয়েছে এবং আপন দেশেই তাদের সেনাবাহিনীদের কাছে নিজ পরিচয় পত্র পেশ করে দিন শুরু করতে হয়। সকল সাম্প্রদায়িক এবং সংখ্যাগরিষ্ঠ আগ্রাসনের বিরুদ্ধে তিনি তার আদিবাসী কম্যুনিটির পক্ষ থেকে জোরালো প্রতিবাদ জানান।
এছাড়া ইলেকট্রনিক মিডিয়া ব্যাক্তিত্ব তৃতীয়মাত্রা ডট কম এর বিশেষ প্রতিনিধি জনাব আরিফুল মাহবুব ১৯৭২ সালের সেক্যুলার সংবিধানের  মূল নীতি অসাম্প্রদায়িকতার মূল্যবোধ নিয়ে বিশেষ আলোকপাত করেন। তিনি তাঁর সংক্ষিপ্ত বক্তব্যে বাংলাদেশের হাজার বছরের সংস্কৃতি সম্প্রদায়িক সম্প্রীতির ইতিহাস তুলে ধরে সাম্প্রতিক রামু ঘটনার তীব্র প্রতিবাদ জানান।
সম্মিলিত এই নাগরিক সম্মেলন এই ঘৃন্য নাশকতার বিরুদ্ধে সোচ্চার হন। এবং ভবিষ্যতে এ ধরনের পুনরাবৃত্তি যাতে না হয় তার জন্য সংশ্লিষ্ট দায়িত্বশীল কতৃপক্ষের কাছে তাদের দায়িত্ব পালনের নিশ্চয়তা দাবী করেন। এ সমাবেশের একটি প্রোটকোল পরবর্তিতে গনপ্রজাত্ন্ত্রী বাংলাদেশ সরকারের রাষ্ট্রদূতের কাছে প্রেরন করা হয়। সমাবেশটি সুইডেনের স্থানীয় নাগরিকদের দৃষ্টি আকর্ষন করে। অনেকেই এ সময় এগিয়ে এসে তাদের সমমর্মিতা জানান। অনেককে এ সময় ছবি তুলতে দেখা যায়।
 


--
Taslima Moon
 


__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
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Re: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--রামু, সাম্প্রদায়িকতা ও অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা ---Ramu, Communalism and Noncommunalism



The father of Jamaat Islami Mowdudi was tried for instigating anti-Ahmadi riot in Pakistan. Several years ago there were troubles in Bangladesh too. The State of Pakistan declared the Ahmadies non-Muslims. I am sure Jamaat Islami and other so called Islam Pasand parties gave strong support to the move by the Pakistani govt. Denial of Jamaat Islami involvement on this will be big lie. I have Muslim friends belonging to the Ahmadi sect. I know how much proud they are to be identified as Muslims. Why should the State, Islamic clerics and Jamaat Islami decide their religious identity? Any way with the kind of ideological belief and mindset you have you guys will make life of these people unsafe. 
A secular and democratic country tries to allow maximum individual rights. It also includes all the great and universal teachings from all religions and cultures. A State does not need to be religious explicitly. A religious State I'd divisive which is not good for world peace and progress. 
I will be looking forward to hearing from you more on this issue. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 14, 2012, at 11:01 AM, "S A Hannan" <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com> wrote:

 

Ahmadies are non-Muslims whether they are declared to be so by the state or not..Jamaat Islami has nothing on Ahmadi issue in the manifesto of theirs.

I think basic Hindu code is what Bed has taught. As for Christians, it is the moral lessons preached by Jesus found in four gospels.

 

Shah Abdul Hannan

 


From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Subimal Chakrabarty
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 7:41 PM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Cc: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--
রামু, সাম্প্রদায়িকতা অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা ---Ramu, Communalism and Noncommunalism

 

 

I have humble questions for Mr. Hannan. If Jamaat-i-Islam comes to power in Bangladesh, will they try to declare the Ahamadiyas non-Muslims? What is Indian constitution lacking now and how can these lackings be fixed by Hindu religious teachings? What Hindu religious teachings has he in his mind? Caste-ism or teachings of Manu? What are the Christian moral codes that the Christians in the West are not following? No abortion at all? 


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 13, 2012, at 10:06 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

Mr. Hannan,

I heard from many others before, but - you are consistent in your views; that's quite interesting.

Thanks.

Jiten Roy
--- On Fri, 10/12/12, S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com> wrote:


From: S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
Subject: FW: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--
রামু, সাম্প্রদায়িকতা অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা ---Ramu, Communalism and Noncommunalism
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, October 12, 2012, 11:46 PM

 

correcyed

 


From: S A Hannan [mailto:sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com]
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 11:52 AM
To: ' mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com '
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--
রামু, সাম্প্রদায়িকতা অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা ---Ramu, Communalism and Noncommunalism

 

Dear Mr.Jiten Roy,

I would love to see India ruled by Hindu religious teachings, only condition is fundamental rights of Non-Hindus should be guaranteed in the constitution. Similarly if the West rules by teaching and  moral code of Christianity, the world will be freed from much of immorality, selfishness, materialism etc.

In the state of Madina established by the Prophet, the state was based on Islam but all citizens including the Jews had similar rights.

Islamic states will not be theocracy; they would be ruled by elected people.

Shah Abdul HannanI

 


From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jiten Roy
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 6:00 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--
রামু, সাম্প্রদায়িকতা অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা ---Ramu, Communalism and Noncommunalism

 

 

Many Islamic leaders aspire for religious theocratic states, wherever they are majority. This is one of the Islamist doctrines and goals. When Muslim population gains near majority in any area, Islamists start to promote the idea that - Muslims aren't allowed to be governed by non-Muslims, and they initiate the process to control the power of that area. Islamists are Muslim-supremists, much like Nazis or skinheads (KKK). They are driven by the doctrine of Islamic Ummah.



__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Heaven is real, says neurosurgeon who claims to have visited the afterlife



This is more of an amusing news to me. I did not take it very seriously (Personal opinion!).

Having said that, I think the man is a neurosurgeon and far more qualified than member Das in health, death.

It seems like people are criticizing him simply to "Criticize" his ideas. Members here are FAR less qualified to speak about the topic of the discussion but they feel they had to say something. Which is a problem when we talk about other issues.

I know a living patient who "Almost died" at least four times in Dhaka and came back after prolong coma type situation. She did not discuss any after life issues but small "Miracles" do happen in hospitals all around the world.

As far as afterlife narrative is concern, I read it carefully and I do not have enough experience in this field to say anything against it or for it.


Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 15, 2012 8:46 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Heaven is real, says neurosurgeon who claims to have visited the afterlife

 
"He claims to have been escorted by an unknown female companion."- Doesn't he contradict the scriptures which say that angels are of  male or neuter gender.  Moreover if he had experienced a genuine afterlife experience, how could he return?  The temporary coma he underwent might have created some delusions that he is unable to explain making him believe that he really peeked into afterlife.

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 9:00 PM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
The Sideshow

Heaven is real, says neurosurgeon who claims to have visited the afterlife

By  Dr. Eben Alexander claims to have visited the afterlife (Twitter)Dr. Eben Alexander has taught at Harvard Medical School and has earned a strong reputation as a neurosurgeon. And while Alexander says he's long called himself a Christian, he never held deeply religious beliefs or a pronounced faith in the afterlife.
But after a week in a coma during the fall of 2008, during which his neocortex ceased to function, Alexander claims he experienced a life-changing visit to the afterlife, specifically heaven.
"According to current medical understanding of the brain and mind, there is absolutely no way that I could have experienced even a dim and limited consciousness during my time in the coma, much less the hyper-vivid and completely coherent odyssey I underwent," Alexander writes in the cover story of this week's edition of Newsweek.
So what exactly does heaven look like?
Alexander says he first found himself floating above clouds before witnessing, "transparent, shimmering beings arced across the sky, leaving long, streamer like lines behind them."
He claims to have been escorted by an unknown female companion and says he communicated with these beings through a method of correspondence that transcended language. Alexander says the messages he received from those beings loosely translated as:
"You are loved and cherished, dearly, forever."
"You have nothing to fear."
"There is nothing you can do wrong."
From there, Alexander claims to have traveled to "an immense void, completely dark, infinite in size, yet also infinitely comforting." He believes this void was the home of God.
After recovering from his meningitis-induced coma, Alexander says he was reluctant to share his experience with his colleagues but found comfort inside the walls of his church. He's chronicled his experience in a new book, "Proof of Heaven: A neurosurgeon's journey into the afterlife," which will be published in late October.
"I'm still a doctor, and still a man of science every bit as much as I was before I had my experience," Alexander writes. "But on a deep level I'm very different from the person I was before, because I've caught a glimpse of this emerging picture of reality. And you can believe me when I tell you that it will be worth every bit of the work it will take us, and those who come after us, to get it right."



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Re: FW: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--=?UTF-8?Q?=E0=A6=B0=E0=A6=BE=E0=A6=AE=E0=A7=81?=, সাম্প্র ---Ramu, Communalism and Noncommunalism--DEMOCRACY AND ISLAM: CLARIFICATION



This article makes clear that it is written by a person who is not a scholar on political science, but a disciple of Maulana Moududi.  Islam had it's root in Platonic philosophy.  Plato opposed democracy as does Islam today.  Bangladesh is said to be the most democratic country with Islamic population.  Leaving legislation to Allah means, in effect, leaving it to Mullahs who are by nature ignorant about most things including their own scripture.   If Hannan had any knowledge on the development of political philosophy, he could not have written such a theocratic nonsense as he had written here.

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 9:55 PM, S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com> wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from S A Hannan included below]

In response to caustic and uncivilized comment of Kamal Das below, please read the attachment and also text message below.

Shah Abdul Hannan

----------

DEMOCRACY AND ISLAM: CLARIFICATION

OF SOME MISGIVINGS

                                                                   

Shah Abdul Hannan

                                                                            Former Secretary, Govt. of Bangladesh

 

 

 

Democracy is a commonly known word all over the world. Most of the political movements in the world have made it their goal to establish this system in their respective countries. Democracy is the most popular and accepted political system in the modern world. Yet, there exists some difference of opinion among the Islamic groups on democracy. Democracy and human rights have occupied very important position in the political agenda of many of the Islamic parties. However, some of the parties and people do not accept it, since democracy speaks of sovereignty of the people.

 

In this context, we need a careful and deep analysis of this issue. We need to understand the issue avoiding the minor technicalities. As we see, Islamic parties and Islamic scholars of the modern world think of a political system wherein government will run the country through Parliament. They also want freedom of expression, voting right of the people, rule of law, independent & free judiciary, free press, fundamental human rights etc. These are also the pre-requisites of the democratic system. It is therefore, apparent on a deeper analysis that the concept of state and govt. of Islamic Parties are in conformity with the principles of democracy.

 

Theoretically speaking, Islam speaks of sovereignty of Allah, while western democracy advocates that sovereignty belongs to people. However, all political thinkers do not share the same view of sovereignty. Some political scientists even argue that there is no need of the concept sovereignty at all. Even the concept of sovereignty is not highlighted in the books which discuss democracy though sovereignty is discussed in great detail as a political concept in the books of political science.

 

In this connection position taken in the constitution of Islamic Republic of Iran is very relevant. Heading of chapter 5 of the consititution is "Sovereignty of the Nation and the Powers emanating there from".  Article 56 reads as follows:

 

"The absolute sovereignty over the universe and man belongs to God who has bestowed upon man sovereignty over his social destiny.  None can deprive man of this sovereignty, nor can he place it in the interest of certain other person or group of persons.  The nation shall exercise this divine sovereignty through the ways referred to in the following articles of Law"

 

It is apparent that sovereignty has been divided between "absolute Soverignty" and "bestowed Soverignty" (like concepts of legal sovereignty and political sovereignty in the western concepts).  It is clear from above that all of us need not take same view on the concept and nature of sovereignty.

 

In this context, we feel it necessary to quote from the writings of Allama Yousuf Al Qardawi, an eminent Islamic scholar of the present time. He wrote on Political Freedom and Democracy as follows:

 

" The fear of some people here that democracy makes the people a source of power and even legislation (although legislation is Allah's alone) should not be heeded here, because we are supposed to be speaking of a people that in its majority has accepted Allah as its Lord, Mohammad as its Prophet and Islam as its Religion. Such a people would not be expected to pass a legislation that contradicts Islam and its incontestable principles and conclusive rules."

 

"Anyway, these fears can be overcome by one article stipulating that any legislation contradicting the incontestable provisions of Islam shall be null and void because Islam is the religion of the State and the source of legitimacy of all its institutions and therefore may no be contradicted, as a branch may not run against the main stream."

 

"It should be known that the acceptance of the principle that legislation or rule belong to Allah does not rob the Nation of its right to seek for itself the codes necessary to regulate its ever-changing life and earthly affairs."

 

"What we seek is that legislations and codes be within the limits of the flawless texts and the over all objectives of Sharia and the Islamic Message. The binding texts are very few, while the area of "permissibility" or legislative free space is quite wide and the texts themselves are so flexible and capacious as to accommodate more than one understanding and accept more than one interpretation, which leads to the existence of several schools and philosophies within the expansive framework of Islam." (Quoted from 'Priorities of the Islamic Movement in the Coming Phase', Chapter : The Movement and political Freedom and Democracy)

 

We find many Islamic scholars accepted the idea of democracy in Islam though under certain conditions. Dr. Abu Said Nuruddin has written in his book 'Mohakobi Iqbal', ( Iqbal the Great Poet) that Allama Iqbal, was not happy with the democratic system because of its secularist stance but he suggested in his writings that there was no alternative to democracy. In his 6th speech on 'Reconstruction of religious thought in Islam', Allama Iqbal stated that Islamic state is established on the principles of freedom, equality, and the absolute principles of stability. Therefore the principles of democratic rule is not only similar with the fundamental aspects of Islam rather the executing powers are enhanced in the Muslim world (Mohakabi Iqbal, Iqbal the Great Poet by Dr. Abu Said Nuruddin)

 

Iqbal observed, should the foundation of democracy rest upon spiritual and moral values, it would be the best political system. He wrote in the "The New Era" on its 28th July, 1917 issue: that democracy was born in Europe from  economic renaissance that took place in most of its societies…….But Islamic democracy is not developed from the idea of economic advancement rather it is a spiritual principle that comes from the principle that everybody is a source of power whose possibilities can be developed through virtue and character". [Mohakabi Iqbal ( Iqbal the Great Poet) by Dr. Abu Said Nuruddin, page -239)

 

That means according to Iqbal Islam prescribes democracy under the law of Allah.

 

We see Moulana Maududi, fifty years ago from now, in his book "Political theory of Islam" used the term "Theo-democracy" for Islamic state. He didn't deny the term 'democracy'. Rather he accepted democracy while this system will work under the sovereignty of Allah.

 

There is a misconception about Moulana Maududi's true position about democracy.  Moulana Maududi initially criticized western democracy because of its secularism and popular sovereignty (in the sense that Parliament can make any law even if it violates the Law of Allah).  However, his later writings and political  conduct proved that he believed in Democracy (Rule of the people) subject to the Law of Allah (Sovereignty of Allah). 

 

In an interview with Akhbar-e-Jahan Karachi which was published on 2 April 1969, Sayyid Maududi said,

 

"Islam and Democracy are not opposed to each other.  Democracy is a system where Govt. is formed run and changed on the basis of public opinion. Islamic political order also is of the same type.  However, our democratic values are different from western values. Western democracy has no limits…………………………………………… ……. …………………………...

On the other hand Islamic democracy is controlled by the Quran and the Sunnah ………… …"

 

(Interviews of Moulana Maududi, on Bangla translation) published by Adhunik Prokashani, Bangla Bazar, Dhaka, 1st edition. 1999, page 263).

 

In an interview with Mujallatun Guraba, an Arabic paper from London (published in February 1969 No.), he said, " to make people understand now it is essential to use modern terminology.  But care should be taken in their use.  Same terms should be avoided such as socialism.  Some terms are permitted with the condition that their Islamic and western connotation should be clearly spelled out.  Democracy, Constitutional system and parliamentary system are such terms …….". (ibid, page 255).

 

In an interview published in the Daily Mashriq of Lahore, Pakistan ( 1st February, 1970), in reply to a question he said that, "those are good people in his view who want to establish democracy in the country". (ibid, pages 339-345). 

 

He has said in the same interview that "all our constitutional problems should be solved by the representative of the people".

 

In another interview in the Daily Hurriat in 1969 (published on 10th November), he again said that all constitutional amendments should be made in a democratic way by the representatives of the people". (ibid, P-313).

 

His party always supported democracy.  Pakistan constitution in 1956 and in 1973 was modeled structurally on democracy and his party Jamaat-e-Islami supported these.  His party fought against Martial Laws in Pakistan.  He supported Fatima Jinnah against Ayub Khan in Presidential election in 1965 because she promised to restore democracy.  His party was a component of DAC (Political combination of parties), where "D" stands for democracy.

 

So it is evident from his later writings and political conduct that he stood for democracy.

 

We also see that in the first Islamic constitution of the present world, the term democracy was accepted with the consent of Islamic scholars (ulema). In the preamble, the term democracy was accepted in the following manner :

 

"Wherein the principles of democracy freedom, equality, tolerance and social justice, as enunciated by Islam, should be fully observed". (from the preamble  of the constitution Pakistan of 1956)

 

In the 1973 constitution of Pakistan the same position was maintained.

 

 


From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kamal Das
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 8:20 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: FW: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--
রামু, সাম্প্রদায়িকতা অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা ---Ramu, Communalism and Noncommunalism

 

 

This katmullah Mr. S. A. Hannan has a brain full of sawdust. His needs a course in history and politics.  He does not know that Islam and democracy do not go together.  Majilish-i-sura is not a democratic council.  Different parts of the world have been ruled by people by those who had hotlines with God and yet all the vices were generated and propagated there in the name of the almighty God.  I wonder how such a man could even pass the Civil Service Examination.

On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 9:46 AM, S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com> wrote:

 

correcyed

 


From: S A Hannan [mailto:sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com]
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 11:52 AM
To: 'mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com'


Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--

রামু, সাম্প্রদায়িকতা অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা ---Ramu, Communalism and Noncommunalism

 

Dear Mr.Jiten Roy,

I would love to see India ruled by Hindu religious teachings, only condition is fundamental rights of Non-Hindus should be guaranteed in the constitution. Similarly if the West rules by teaching and  moral code of Christianity, the world will be freed from much of immorality, selfishness, materialism etc.

In the state of Madina established by the Prophet, the state was based on Islam but all citizens including the Jews had similar rights.

Islamic states will not be theocracy; they would be ruled by elected people.

Shah Abdul HannanI

 


From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jiten Roy
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 6:00 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com


Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--

রামু, সাম্প্রদায়িকতা অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা ---Ramu, Communalism and Noncommunalism

 

 

Many Islamic leaders aspire for religious theocratic states, wherever they are majority. This is one of the Islamist doctrines and goals. When Muslim population gains near majority in any area, Islamists start to promote the idea that - Muslims aren't allowed to be governed by non-Muslims, and they initiate the process to control the power of that area. Islamists are Muslim-supremists, much like Nazis or skinheads (KKK). They are driven by the doctrine of Islamic Ummah.

 

Obviously, Mr. Hannan supports the Islamist agenda, without much thought. He may not realize, if every religion follows similar doctrine, the world would be unlivable. I would like to ask him - if he wants to see India as a Hindu state, since 85% is Hindu there. Hindu-supremists will agree with him. In the same token, Western countries will be Christian states also.

 

In India, Muslim majority areas (Murshidabad, Nadia, Kashmir, Assam, etc.) are tremendously volatile because of this Islamist doctrine. Muslim majority areas in other parts of the world (e.g., Mayanmar, Thailand, Europe, etc.) are going through turmoil also. Bangladesh and Turkey are under tremendous pressure from the Islamists, but hanging onto the brink until now. God knows how long that will last. I have no solution, except to think that - proper education may heal this wound someday.

 

Jiten Roy

 


--- On Wed, 10/10/12, sentu tikadar <sentu92003@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: sentu tikadar <sentu92003@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--
রামু, সাম্প্রদায়িকতা অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা ---Ramu, Communalism and Noncommunalism
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>, "nirjhor019@yahoo.com" <nirjhor019@yahoo.com>, "eliasfaridpur@yahoo.com" <eliasfaridpur@yahoo.com>, "su_maiya1@yahoo.com" <su_maiya1@yahoo.com>, "azizbiit@gmail.com" <azizbiit@gmail.com>, "aftabbiit@gmail.com" <aftabbiit@gmail.com>, "humaira_parveen@yahoo.com" <humaira_parveen@yahoo.com>, "umaira@live.com" <umaira@live.com>
Cc: "mukto-mona-owner@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona-owner@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 10, 2012, 10:10 PM

তাই মুসলমানেরা যেখানে সংখ্যাগরিষ্ঠ, সেখানে তাদের ইসলামি সমাজ বা রাষ্ট্র গঠন করার সব ধরনের চেষ্টা করা তাদের অধিকার। এটাকে সাম্প্রদায়িক চেতনা বলে নিন্দা করা যায় না।

 

Thik koichen apni. Ekkebare hasa kotha koichen..... Sahi kotha, Qurane pary tai ache.   

Apni jemon temon koichen.

 

Make Bangladesh an Islamic Sariah country and cut throat the Hindus and other minorities in broad day light.  Or either foercefully convert their women and marry them.  If they are not agreed to marry your people then rape them.  This PRACTICE is not new in Islam.  It was a common practice in Nabiji's time. Nabiji himself had raped many Jews and nonbelievers women (on this context Mollahs are very defensive to shield Nabiji and admire Nabiji). Then mentally and also physically torture  them in any place, e.g. market, town, or when they walk  by your mosque side.  Drive them to India and grasp their properties.   

  

Where there are Muslim majority, Hindus and other minorities are at razor danger.  Examples are  Deganga of North 24 Parganas (90 % Muslims) , Kashmir (99% Muslims), Mollah Puram (60 % Muslims) of KeralaIndia.  So it can be easily understandable what will be the condition of Hindus and  Buddhists  in a Muslim majority geographical country.  Hundreds of thousands are like  you in Bangladesh.  So in coming future there will be mass murder of Hindus and Buddhists in Bangladesh or they have to convert to desert Bedouin religion / dictatorship. 

 

But Muslims in Hindu Majority areas are well protected by Indian Laws and society people and they are happy.

 

What the Talebans are doing in Pakistan and Afghanistan is also nayez as per Quran specially the part written during Nabiji's  stay in Medina.

 

\

 Sentu

 

From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>
To: nirjhor019@yahoo.com; "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>; eliasfaridpur@yahoo.com; su_maiya1@yahoo.com; azizbiit@gmail.com; aftabbiit@gmail.com; humaira_parveen@yahoo.com; umaira@live.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:08 PM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--
রামু, সাম্প্রদায়িকতা অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা ---Ramu, Communalism and Noncommunalism

 

         Example from Mr. Hannan' writing where there are, on average, 3-5 grand lies per sentence:মুসলমানেরা যেখানে সংখ্যাগরিষ্ঠ, সেখানে তাদের ইসলামি সমাজ বা রাষ্ট্র গঠন করার সব ধরনের চেষ্টা করা তাদের অধিকার। এটাকে সাম্প্রদায়িক চেতনা বলে নিন্দা করা যায় না। অসাম্প্রদায়িক অর্থ যার কোনো সম্প্রদায় নেই। তার মানে তার কোনো আদর্শ নীতিবোধ নেই। ধরনের নীতিহীনতা নীতিহীন লোক দিয়ে কোনো কল্যাণ হতে পারে না।
             The majority/minority of population count depends on what principle of classification? 
We REJECT the British-introduced system of pre-selected classification of people  by their religion.  The principle of categorizing of people by their religion is not followed by any official administrative procedure in Bangladesh.  Why should it be the basis of declaring the State to have a religious identity? You want another massacre of 1947?  The rest of Hannan's statements are too evil and too ridiculous to even find words to rebut!                     Shame on such lie-mongering munafiqui! This is truly veering closely on committing 'kufr' on a grand scale.

Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 07:57:44 -0700 From: nirjhor019@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--রামু, সাম্প্রদায়িকতা অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা ---Ramu, Communalism and Noncommunalism To: farida_majid@hotmail.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; eliasfaridpur@yahoo.com; su_maiya1@yahoo.com; azizbiit@gmail.com; aftabbiit@gmail.com; humaira_parveen@yahoo.com; umaira@live.com

I wonder, how,having few words exchanged, you gave me titles like "dark mind" "jahil" etc. I even didn't present any view, I just put the references and said its up-to the audience to decide. Who is to blame to be judgmental? Me who would love to call himself an Islamist or a self proclaimed 'secular muslim' like you? who is more open minded or liberal for instance?

I should say (if I not, I should be guilty of hiding the truth) that Sayyid Abul A'la Mawdudi never ever cooperated with the British and neither did he approved of it and everything that is said about his ideas to implement "fascism" is all lies. Again a claim should be verified with references, which seems a not-so-comfortable thing with you. And i gave part of your line because I was really shocked to see the word
perpetrators of communalism before S A Hannan. That was my point of interest. I was not trying to manipulate or anything. And again you don't wanna give references to "Jahils" like me, nothing to do in my part.

I am not the type of person who gives random fatwa about random people, I leave the matter of you with Allah subhanahu ta'la, the omnipotent the merciful.

And I pray to Him that may Allah(SWT) shower your life with joy, love and may his hands of mercy encompass you.

Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullah

 

 

From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>
To: nirjhor019@yahoo.com; "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>; eliasfaridpur@yahoo.com; su_maiya1@yahoo.com; azizbiit@gmail.com; aftabbiit@gmail.com; humaira_parveen@yahoo.com; umaira@live.com
Sent: Wednesday, 10 October 2012, 20:20
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--
রামু, সাম্প্রদায়িকতা অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা ---Ramu, Communalism and Noncommunalism

        Dear Mr. Nirjhor.                                 It is strange to read your response! Why have you quoted only HALF my sentence and left out the part that I emphasized with bold letters?  Here is my sentence again:Communalism is an artificially generated ethnic and religious hatred and though its perpetrators, like S. A. Hannan, would like it to be about 'religion' it is really about Politics of power.
      It is what has been termed as "identity politics" that was started by the British colonial Admin.  They are the ones who began counting people (in 1872 Census of Bengal) by their religious identities. It was the mainstay of their "divide and rule" policy.  Never before did any Muslim ruler of any part of India made any calculation of majority/minority of population division by religion. The history of Bengal (and the rest of Indian subcontinent) is marked by interactive, multi-religious characteristics. "Our religion is not our only identity, nor necessarily the identity to which we attach the greatest importance" (Amartya Sen in a lecture before Oxford University, 1999).       I have studied the British colonial writings and their policies to rule India.  So had Abul ala Moududi who had the added advantage of having lived under imperialism.  I hate almost every aspect of colonialism.  Moududi secretly admired British imperialism and wanted to replace the Western Empire with his own Islamic Empire. The Partition of India in 1947 was according to the British prescription of "identity" politics.  The War of Liberation in 1971 rejected this colonial legacy of "identity" politics.            Therein lies the difference between the Jamaat and the Mukti dreamers who fought for Bangladesh, FREE from colonial policy-induced religious identity.
                 We do not reject religion or even its cultural importance. We, secular Muslims, do not shun or quarrel with Islam. Some of us may even be namazee mussulmans. What we reject is this "identity politics". Is that CLEAR? We do not love EMPIRES. Therefore NO ISLAMIC EMPIRE FOR US.  Thank you.             Sorry, I am unable to "enlighten" your dark mind with "a single piece of writing of S A Hannan"  because neither you nor Hannan have let Allah's Noor enter your Jahil heart. " Wa Allahu bi killi 'sha'i 'alimun."               Farida Majid

Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 03:43:12 -0700 From: nirjhor019@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--রামু, সাম্প্রদায়িকতা অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা ---Ramu, Communalism and Noncommunalism To: farida_majid@hotmail.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; eliasfaridpur@yahoo.com; su_maiya1@yahoo.com; azizbiit@gmail.com; aftabbiit@gmail.com; humaira_parveen@yahoo.com; umaira@live.com

Dear Farida,

You wrote,

\\Communalism is an artificially generated ethnic and religious hatred and though its perpetrators, like S. A. Hannan//

 

Could you please enlighten us with just a single piece of writting of S A Hannan where he even slightly instigated or approved it? If you can't do so then we are sorry to buy this idea.

 

Shahriar Kabir has a very definite vested interest and is himself from a particular tent which is well known for its political witch haunting Jamaat-phobic attitude. His reference can't be acceptable. Why can't we rather try more academic one like

1. Vanguard of Islamic Revolution The JamaAt-I Islami of Pakistan 

by Seyyed Vali Reza Nasr Univ. of Cal. Press ( A phD dissertation and a prosecution document of Intl Crimes Tribunal Dhaka)
[http://www.amazon.com/Vanguard-Islamic-Revolution-Islami-Pakistan/dp/0756754577]

2.Pakistan-Failure in National Integration [Hardcover]

Rounaq Jahan
Studies of the East Asian Institute, Columbia University. University Press Ltd ,Bangladesh
[http://www.amazon.com/Pakistan-Failure-National-Integration-R-Jahan/dp/9840512676]

I hope A prosecution document of ICT and a book by Rounaq Jahan from UPL will be 'non-partisan' to all of us. Serious and sincere discussion will help us understand that What Jamaat e Islami and other global moderate Islamist trends think about communalism and minority rights.

 

From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>; eliasfaridpur@yahoo.com; su_maiya1@yahoo.com; azizbiit@gmail.com; aftabbiit@gmail.com; nirjhor019@yahoo.com; humaira_parveen@yahoo.com; umaira@live.com
Sent: Wednesday, 10 October 2012, 3:06
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--
রামু, সাম্প্রদায়িকতা অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা ---Ramu, Communalism and Noncommunalism

 

সাম্প্রদায়িকতা বলতে বাম সেকুলাররা ইসলাম, ইসলামি দল, ইসলামপ্রীতি ইসলামি রাষ্ট্র দাবির প্রতি ইঙ্গিত করে থাকেন। এরা ইসলামি দল নিষিদ্ধ করা চান, শিক্ষায় ইসলামের কোনো স্থান চান না।
    
The above is a horrible tangle of BIG lies and half-truths all knotted and twisted cleverly in a jilebi.
First, no one, not even a  moron, ever called Islam, the religion itself,
সাম্প্রদায়িকতা. Communalism is an artificially generated ethnic and religious hatred and though its perpetrators, like S. A. Hannan, would like it to be about 'religion' it is really about Politics of power.
       
          
From the inception of Jamaati Islami politics the party, in the mid-1940s, has been stamped with unmistakable signs of European fascism. Moulana Abul Kalam Azad took one look at the draft-manifesto presented by Abul ala Moududi and sternly told him to abandon the fascist idea.

 [People are requested hereby to view the documentary movie m




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               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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