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Friday, March 2, 2012

[ALOCHONA] Mysterious killings on rise: Over 200 pol leaders killed in one year



Mysterious killings on rise: Over 200 pol leaders killed in one year



Incidents of political and mysterious killings have taken an alarming proportion in the country with the death ofover 200 leaders and activists of different parties in the last one year,police have said.Police said in most of the cases local leaders of both AL and BNP were killed by their rivals. 

Many social and political watchers viewed that since the nation did not witness any of the alleged killers get punished, so it has created a flattering ground for political-murders.

While some of these killings took place during clashes between supporters of ruling Awami League and opposition BNP, a significant number of incidents involved killing of one AL leader by-another of the same party.

According to sources, over 8,000accused have been released under political consideration during the tenure ofthe present government while a number of accused awarded death sentence,including 27 convicts in two cases of Natore and Laxmipur, were pardoned.

Meanwhile, the law enforcers didnot make any headway in almost all the cases related to political murder due topolitical interferences and blame games.

In some cases, law enforcers resorted to arresting innocent people belonging to the opposite political camp.

Political leaders killed in the year included Narsingdi Mayor Lokman Hossain, Haridas Kathi UP chairman Prakash Chandra, Tejgaon unit joint convener of Bangladesh Chhatra League Mizanur Rahman, Jhenidah BNP leader Shahjahan Seraj, general secretary of DCC ward-39unit BNP Kazi Abdur Rahman, general secretary of Awami League ward-41 unit ofthe capital's Agargaon Fazlul Huq and Raqibul Islam Rokib BNP  ward-95 unit president of the capital's Kafrul.

According to human rights body Odhikar, 157 people were killed and 8,882 others from AL, BNP and other partieswere injured in political violence from January last year to February this year. At least 23 persons were killed in February alone. They include journalist couple Sagar Sarowar and Meherun Runi. Another human rights body AinO Shalish Kendra in its report expressed concern over the rise in political violence.

However, home minister Sahara Khatun and inspector general of police Hassan Mahmood Khandaker on several occasions claim that the law and order is better than any time in the past.

http://thenewnationbd.com/newsdetails.aspx?newsid=32684

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[ALOCHONA] Re: India's water war





http://www.dailynayadiganta.com/details/32585


On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Isha Khan <bdmailer@gmail.com> wrote:
River-linking on priority, says Indian water minister

The Indian water resources minister yesterday said the issue of interlinking of rivers was high on the ministry's agenda but maintained it could not move ahead before taking states on board.

"As far as the question of interlinking is concerned, the government is seized of the matter and it is a priority for us. When it comes to the feasibility reports, these were prepared because the government is eager to do it," said Pawan Kumar Bansal, the minister.

But he stressed that water being a state matter, the central government cannot move further without taking the states on board.

His remarks came close on the heels of the Indian Supreme Court asking the government to constitute a committee for implementing the interlinking of rivers.

"It is a very, very difficult project. It is a difficult task to arrive at a consensus among states. They [states] are reluctant to get into an immediate agreement on sharing of water. Also, water is a state subject and we cannot impose anything on anyone.

"But we try to take the concerned states on board. Wherever there is a possibility on those linkages, we try to take them on board," he told reporters.

He said that out of 30 possible links identified, five projects were flagged as priority projects.

"Out of those five projects, the detailed project report [DPR] of Ken-Betwa has been prepared. On others, there are talks between states. In one case, the chief ministers of Maharashtra and Gujarat states signed the MoU for preparing the DPR in the presence of the prime minister recently.... The government considers this to be an important thing," Bansal added.

Of the 30 possible links that were identified, 16 are in the Himalayan component and 14 are in the peninsular component.

Explaining the benefits of interlinking, which Bansal prefers to term transfer of water from surplus basins to deficit basins, the minister said the ultimate irrigation potential which can be created in the country is 140 million hectares, of which 110 million hectares have been created.

"If we are able to transfer water from surplus basins to deficit basins, then another 25 million hectares can be directly created in addition to 140 million hectares," he said, adding another 10 million hectares will be the result of improvement in ground water level.

http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=224612

http://www.dailyjanakantha.com/news_view.php?nc=15&dd=2012-03-02&ni=88480

On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Isha Khan <bdmailer@gmail.com> wrote:

Issue bilateral, action unilateral

Delhi assures Dhaka of discussion, continues to construct around 700 dams, many in line with river-linking project

Over the years India has been assuring Bangladesh of not making any unilateral decisions on its National River Linking Project but it is building around 700 dams on its rivers and many of them are for facilitating the mega project.

Experts say despite what India has been saying, it never stopped the implementation of the project. It went on with the projects that facilitate the mega project even though the matter was pending with Indian courts. The draft of its National Water Policy 2012 also encourages inter-basin transfer of water through river-linking.

According to the final report of World Commission on Dams (WCD) in 2000, an estimated 1,700 large dams were being built in the world and India accounted for 40 percent of those dams.

The report said out of the 45,000 large and small dams in the world, India has about 4,000, which makes it the fourth, after the USA, China and Japan, country to have that many dams.

A follow up report in 2010 named "WCD 2000+10" focused more on the lasting impacts of the report. It said countries such as India and China (which combined accounts for over half of the dams in the world) continues to reject "the report for the fear that it could bring dam construction to a halt".

No newer data was available at the World Commission on Dams website.

Many of the dams are on rivers that flow into Bangladesh.

Khalequzzaman, assistant prof of Lock Haven University of Pennsylvania, in his publication titled "Dams in NE India Implications for Bangladesh" published in 2006, mentions that India has built dams on at least 30 common rivers.

The dams and barrages India has built are causing problems in Bangladesh as its agriculture and environment is largely dependent on those rivers especially the Ganges and the Brahmaputra, experts said. The two rivers are threatened by India's controversial project, they said.

"If they divert water from the Brahmaputra, even Dhaka would be affected by salinity," said Ainun Nishat, vice-chancellor of Brac University. "Now the most important thing is to think about what we should do if India really implements the project," he said.

According to Ainun Nishat, it would be disastrous if India made barrages on the Brahmaputra and diverted water of the river, which is known as Jamuna in Bangladesh.

Interestingly, India continues to build dams putting Bangladesh in difficulty but objects to China's dam-building on the Brahmaputra.

Experts said India has been building dams which it would have built anyway during implementation of its river-linking project. They said the river-linking project would not work if those dams were not in place and that the building of these dams was part of the mega project.

India has been constructing a barrage on the Mechi river in Bihar state for the last few years to divert the water of the Teesta towards the west to Fulhar through Mahananda-Mechi, which is visible with Google Earth.

Retired hydrologist M Inamul Haq, chairman of environment organisation Water and Environment, said, "India has been running a hydroelectric plant near Fanshideowa using diverted water of the Teesta."

He said the water used in the plant is diverted from the Teesta before it enters Bangladesh.

India plans to divert a large portion of water form the Brahmaputra and the Ganges rivers through 30 canals, depriving and ignoring outcries of Bangladesh and some of its own states.

The drafts of the proposed National Water Policy 2012 says that with the current strategy of India, it can only use about 1,123 billion cubic metres of water out of 1,869 billion cubic metres available, if large inter-basin transfers are not made. It emphasises India's need for inter-basin water transfer, which could put Bangladesh in serious trouble.

The river-linking project was commissioned in 1982. Bangladesh has been opposing the plan since 2002 when the then Indian prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee formed a taskforce to get the project going.

The Indian Supreme Court has recently cleared the path for the implementation of the mega project. The court in its order said the central Indian government and the states concerned should participate for its "effective" implementation "in a time-bound manner".

Prior to the assurance of Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh last year, an Indian delegation in 2010 assured Bangladesh of not making any unilateral decisions on the Tipaimukh Dam and river-linking project during the Joint River Commission talks on the Teesta water-sharing deal.

Also in 2006 and 2005 India assured Bangladesh that it would not implement the river-linking project without discussion with Bangladesh.

KERALA OPPOSES RIVER LINKING
The Congress-led coalition government and CPI-M led opposition in southern Indian state of Kerala yesterday came out against the Supreme Court directive to the Indian central government for implementing the river-linking project, our correspondent in New Delhi reports.

Kerala Chief Minister Oommen Chandy said Kerala would not agree to the river-linking scheme as it was "harmful" for the state.

He, however, said the Indian apex court order was not applicable to Kerala and it was relevant only to those states that had agreed on the river-linking scheme.

http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=224514


Editorial

We are deeply concerned

India's river-linking project warrants detailed clarification

In the wake of a time-bound Supreme Court order, India will now actively consider implementing the controversial project to link 30 of its rivers and divert the waters of Brahmaputra and Ganges to irrigate its southern and western regions.

We are taken aback by the court order and the manner in which the project has proceeded so far, completely ignoring Bangladesh, a co-riparian country with a vital stake in common rivers.

Sadly, we are now watching alarming developments on a matter that vitally affects our interest. At no stage of the process has Bangladesh been consulted, which runs counter to fundamental norms of good neighbourly relations and international custom of engaging with affected neighbours when diverting water that flows through more than one countries.

We would, therefore, emphatically urge India to come out with a full disclosure of its plans and engage Bangladesh and other states who share the common river basins.

As we understand, if implemented, the river-linking project will spell unprecedented ecological disaster for Bangladesh. Many rivers including Teesta will be severely affected, Rising salinity level will destroy farmlands, ground and surface water systems, the flora and fauna on either side of Padma and Meghna rivers affecting the livelihoods of some 30 million people. Existence of the world's largest mangrove forest, the Sundarbans, will also be under a grave threat

Given the enormity of the river linking project, it is clear that it will have a colossal impact on the ecology of the region and affect the lower riparian country tremendously. India cannot keep Bangladesh in the dark while it starts implementing this project.

We demand that all related studies and plans regarding those rivers that flow between our two countries be made available to us immediately. Let our experts study them and suggest ways to move forward on this project without harming our interest.

The spirit of good neighbourliness that now marks our bilateral relations demands the above. Ignoring our interest may prove disastrous for the future of our relations, as we had seen from the Farakka experience.

http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=224418


On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Isha Khan <bdmailer@gmail.com> wrote:
India to Link Rivers: Contentious project gets court green light

Environmentalists in Bangladesh fear it would spell disaster



The Indian Supreme Court yesterday ordered the government to implement an ambitious project to link the major rivers of the region in a "time-bound manner".

The court also appointed a high-powered committee to plan and put into action the Rs 5,00,000 crore scheme.

The river-linking project was first devised in 1980 and has been under discussion ever since, reports BBC.

Bangladesh has been opposing the plan since 2002 as the then prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee formed a taskforce to get the project going against the backdrop of the acute drought that year.

Vajpayee then said the scheme would "free India from the curse of floods and droughts".

The project that aims to link 30 major rivers and divert the Ganges and the Brahmaputra rivers was also opposed by other neighbouring countries and environmentalists.

Bangladesh maintains that a diversion of water from these rivers will harm its interests while environmentalists say the project will cause an ecological disaster, BBC writes.

Ainun Nishat, a water expert, yesterday told The Daily Star the Bangladesh-India Joint Communiqué issued during Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina's New Delhi visit in 2010 called for mutual understanding in managing the common rivers.

But the river link project was initiated without any consent of Bangladesh.

The diversion of the Brahmaputra will have a serious impact on Bangladesh that gets about two-thirds of its dry season water from the river, he added.

The Bangladesh Paribesh Andolon, an environment organisation, handed over a memorandum to Hasina last September when Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh visited Dhaka.

It expressed concern that under the river link plan the flows of the Brahmaputra and the Ganges will be redirected towards the southern and western parts of India, depriving Bangladesh of water.

The project requires the construction of large dams in India, Nepal and Bhutan, besides requiring international agreements with these countries.

Environmentalists say large dams would flood forests and cultivated areas, and cause compulsory resettlement of people, according to a BBC report.

The biodiversity of Bangladesh greatly depends on rivers. The country is already bearing the brunt of a diversion of water of the Ganges and Teesta rivers by India.

The taskforce that Vajpayee formed in October 2002 recommended dividing the project into Peninsular and Himalayan components.

The Peninsular component that involved rivers in southern India envisaged developing a "Southern Water Grid" with 16 linkages.

It included diversion of surplus water of Mahanadi and Godavari rivers to Pennar, Krishna, Vaigai and Cauvery rivers.

The taskforce also mooted a diversion of the rivers of Kerala and Karnataka to the east, and an interlinking of small rivers flowing along the west coast, south of Tapi and north of Mumbai and of the southern tributaries of Jamuna.

The Himalayan component envisaged building reservoirs on the Ganges and the Brahmaputra and their main tributaries in India and Nepal to conserve water during the monsoon for irrigation and hydro-power generation.

The taskforce had identified 14 links, including Kosi-Ghagra, Kosi-Mech, Ghagra-Jamuna, Gandak-Ganges, Jamuna-Rajasthan, Rajasthan-Sabarmati, Sarda-Jamuna, Farakka-Sundarbans, Brahmaputra-Ganges, Subernarekha-Mahanadi, and Ganges-Damodar-Subernarekha.

The taskforce said the linking of rivers in India would raise irrigation potential to 160 million hectares for all types of crops by 2050.

The project proposes linkages between the major rivers by the year 2016.

Yesterday, observing that the project had already been delayed, resulting in cost rise, a three-judge bench headed by Chief Justice SH Kapadia said the central Indian government and the states concerned should participate for its "effective" implementation "in a time-bound manner".

The bench appointed a high-powered committee comprising Indian water resources minister, its secretary, secretary of the Ministry of Environment and Forest (MoEF) and four experts appointed by water resources ministry, finance ministry, planning commission and MoEF.

Representatives from state governments, two social activists and senior lawyer Ranjit Kumar, who has been assisting the court in the case, will also be in the committee as members.

http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=224227






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[mukto-mona] Dr Puspita's blog on recent incident in Rajuk college involving girls with Hijab



http://www.sonarbangladesh.com/blog/post/96816

 

তাহলে কি ছাত্রীরা পরিমলদের সুবিধার জন্য খোলামেলা পোষাকে ক্লাসে যাবে?!

লিখেছেন পুস্পিতা ২৯ ফেব্রুয়ারী ২০১২, বিকেল ০৪:৪৪

<< আগের পোস্ট

পরের পোস্ট >>



ছবির বামে-বোরকা পরায় বের করে দেয়ার পর অশ্রুসজল ছাত্রীটি ফিরে যাচ্ছেন রাজউক কলেজ থেকে। সাথে তার বোন। ডানে- আরো কয়েকজনকে বোরকা পরার কারণে ঢুকতে না দিয়ে কলেজ গেইটে দাঁড় করিয়ে রাখা হয়েছে।

বোরকা পরে এসেছিল বলে এক ছাত্রীকে কলেজে ঢুকতে দেননি রাজউক উত্তরা মডেল কলেজের অধ্যক্ষ বিগ্রেডিয়ার গোলাম হোসেন সরকার। বোরকার কারণে আরো পাঁচ ছাত্রীকে কলেজের মেইন গেইটে দাঁড় করিয়ে রাখা হয়। তিনি বোরকাকে 'অড' বা দৃষ্টিকটু ড্রেস হিসাবে উল্লেখ করে বলেন, 'একটা মেয়ে পায়ের নখ পর্যন্ত বোরকা পরে এসেছে। এটা দৃষ্টিকটু। তার বোন এসেছিল সাথে-খুব গোঁড়া। সে বলছে, তার বোন বোরকাই পরে আসবে। আমরা এটা এলাউ করতে পারি না। তাই তাকে ক্লাশে ঢুকতে দেয়া হয়নি।'

বোরকা পরলে অধ্যক্ষের সমস্যা কি? যে ছাত্রী বোরকা পরে তার তো কোন সমস্যা হচ্ছেনা। তাকে কেউ জোর করে বোরকা পরতেও বলেনি। কিন্তু অধ্যক্ষ তাতে বাঁধা দেয়ার কে? বোরকা অপছন্দ হওয়ার কথা পরিমল নামের লম্পটদের। কারণ বোরকা তাদের লালসা পূরণে সহায়ক নয়। বোরকা ছাড়া ছাত্রীদের তারা ধর্ষন করার সুযোগ সবসময় না পেলেও চোখের চাহনি দিয়ে গিলতে পারে। সে ক্ষেত্রে বাঁধা হয় বলেই কি অধ্যক্ষ সাহেবের বোরকা অপছন্দ?

তাহলে কি তার খোলামেলা পোষাকই পছন্দ? তিনি কি চান খোলামেলা পোষাক পরে ছাত্রীরা ক্লাসে আসুক? টাইট জিন্স, টি-শার্ট পরা ছাত্রীকে তিনি কি কখনো বাঁধা দিয়েছিলেন? ওই সব পোষাকে অন্ততঃ চোখের সুখ লাভ করা যায়, তাই তিনি বা পরিমলরা সে সব পোষাককেই পছন্দ করেন? বোরকা পরতে বাধাঁ দিয়ে তিনি কি মেয়েদের কথিত সুশীলদের লালসার শিকারে পরিণত করার জন্য টাইট জিন্স-টি-শার্ট, এরপর হাফ প্যান্ট-হাফ গেঞ্জি, এরপর আরো ছোট পোষাক পরতে ৎসাহ দিতে চান?

বোরকা লম্পটদের লালসা পূরণে সমস্যা। ছাড়া তো আর কোন সমস্যা দেখা যায়না। কোন সাহসে তিনি বোরকা পরতে বাঁধা দিয়েছেন? ধর্মনিরপেক্ষতার বাস্তবায়নের প্রচেষ্ঠা হিসেবে কি তিনি এসব করছেন? ছাত্রীরা পরিমলদের হাতে ধর্ষিতা হলেই অধ্যক্ষ সাহেবের ভাল লাগবে?

রিলেটেড পোস্ট- জাফর ইকবালদের ভয় আসলে কোথায়?

 



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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from Hinduism



About graduate fellowship, I was joking.  I have read the ordinance by which it was established.  The teaching fellowship, in particular, was established to get the job of a full time teacher done by the subsistence allowance provided by the University.  By slavery, I pointed to the variety in the U.S. A., till it was outlawed, which  was done after it became economically unsustainable, according to Galbraith.  For a graduate student, both stick and carrot are used.  Comparison with slavery is often made by the students themselves.

Hindus call the Sun-God Lord Vishnu, and the celestial snake Ananta he sleeps on is the Zodiac circle.  The Anantanag is known as Ouraboros, a dragon that swallows itself.  In Christianity, Jesus is actually Sun God, praying to him is not yet untenable, remember the hymn, "Come, O Come, Immanuel"  Immanuel is the liberator who saves his subjects from the cold.

On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 4:02 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Graduate fellowship is not even remotely comparable with the service generation after generation of the so-called low-caste and no-caste Hindus have been providing to the so-called high-caste Hindus. Dr. Das probably was not in his better judgments when he made the comparison.
 
I remember working almost continuously from 8 AM to 2 AM the next day a few times on my Ph.D. research on gas-phase kinetics. Once the kinetic run got started, I had to generate enough data, so that I could make a reasonable judgment on the reaction kinetics. Research for a student is really not for a salary, it is for a degree. It can be compared with the rigorous trainings that an average young person must go through if he/she wants to become a disciplined soldier. It is a choice, not a divine order. Besides, it lasts for only a few years. In fact, probably most of the so-called slave-driver professors actually work harder than their graduate students and post-doctoral associates.
 
I actually see the point of Dr. Das stating that Sun is a God. Of course, this needs to be qualified with what one means by God. The power of Sun is obvious. When people did not know better, it was actually reasonable to pray to Sun. Praying to Sun was not as irrational as praying to the totally imaginary almighty that billions of people pray to even in today's world. Of course, as people began to comprehend the sources of its energy, the supernatural component of Sun, and the idea of praying to it, got untenable.
 
======================================
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:06 PM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from Hinduism
 
Slave labor can be obtained from religious addicts always.  In recent times, however, Graduate fellowship is a version of it.  'Shri' or 'Shree' is added to a name to indicate a male person's handsome appearance.  These words do not indicate divinity.  Sun is indeed a God, without it life would have been impossible on earth.  Other 'stars' in the solar system are Jupiter and Saturn.  Each of them radiate more energy than they receive.  According to Immanuel Velikovosky, the earth might have been the satellites of them in different periods.  After Venus was formed from one of these stars, the solar system was redistributed.
 
======================================
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 6:14 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
To answer Dr. Roy's questions, I would say, "With due respect to our ancient forefathers, I would keep their primitive wisdom in my library collection, but not make much out of it about life and death, or anything else. After all they were ignorant of simple facts like Earth is round, air is a matter, and Sun is a star; none of them God/god."
 
However, I would reiterate that the concept of bad virtue and karma from previous lives making one do poor quality work to serve people who had good virtue and karma in previous lives is too dangerous; not just innocently dim-witted. It is a recipe for getting slave labor from brainwashed and willing victims. The civilized world should trash it without caring about the so-called religious sentiments of the criminals and idiots, no matter how many billion they could be in number.
 
By the way, I have a question for Dr. Roy: How does Krishna becomes 'Shree-Krishna' to someone who does not follow any religion?
 
So long for now,
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from Hinduism
 
Those who believe in heaven and hell can answer your questions. From scientific point of view, these questions are irrelevant.  
We don't have to go to ancient sages to understand life and death as physiological processes. Every day we are acquiring new knowledge about them. Life and death, however, have special meanings and implications for human beings and hence have philosophical dimensions too. Philosophers, poets, and creative geniuses from the fields of literature and arts have depicted them in various ways.   

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from Hinduism
 

How about if we take bits and pieces from all religions to find answers to our questions. As per contemporary religious belief good deeds take you to the Heaven, and bad deeds take you to the Hell. This part is clear. But, what happens to those who did some good and some bad deeds?
That's where re-incarnation theory comes. If you are not good enough for Heaven or bad enough for Hell, you come back to this world and restart your cycle. You are endowed with all qualities based on your credits from the previous life. This is what, I think, Shree-Krishna-logic means. It provides a complete solution to the mystery of our life and death.
The fact is – those ancient Rishis were the philosophers of those days. When they were meditating, they were mostly seeking answers to all those unknowns about life and death. Should we brush their knowledge away so callously, when we know science cannot go that far in our life time as they have gone? I know – some of their views are proven to be wrong. Does that mean all their views were wrong? The choice is ours; either we reject all those knowledge or use some of them to complement ours from science, until we find the total scientific answers in some unknown time horizon. Jiten Roy--- On Mon, 2/27/12, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from Hinduism
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, February 27, 2012, 9:34 PM

 
If I understood the question, then I will say that we sacrifice (money, leisure, close association with a dear one, etc.) in the hope of a greater return in this world. A religious man, however, hopes for the fruits of the after-life also. There are higher levels of sacrifice (mostly emotional but also done out of dutifulness)(examples, sacrifice own's life for the mother land, for saving the life of a dear one, etc.) Good deeds and bad deeds are relative. Even the Geeta says that the sin itself is relative.
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from Hinduism
 
Even if I wait until science finds answers to all those questions, I asked before, where the incentive for sacrifice in life will come from, if all deeds end here as we die? What's the difference between a good and a bad deed, if there is no Karma? The logic will soon turn into insanity. 
Jiten Roy 
--- On Mon, 2/27/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from Hinduism
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, February 27, 2012, 6:54 PM

 
Let me comment on the posts below by Dr. Jiten Roy and Mr. Q. A. Rahman.
 
First on Dr. Roy's comments:
 
Our knowledge is limited, lack thereof is unlimited. So, I would say, Dr. Roy has some thought provoking questions, for which I do not have definitive answers. However, that does not mean that God, re-birth and virtue/karma in various lives are the answers. Of course, when we can not comprehend, it is easy to give up, and explain it with the irrationality of the concept of supernatural powers. It is much more difficult to explore with patience to find out. If we look at the progress of human civilization, we can see that some of the old supernatural kinds of mysteries are no longer mysteries. Just imagine, for example, when people did not know that air was a matter, they used to consider it as a god and pray to it (or to God's expression in the form of air). For another example, even in today's world, some people pray for rain when there is a drought; of course, the technology-based irrigation works better than the prayers.
 
We need to realize that it may take too many generations of human intelligence to unravel just one mystery; and some mysteries could remain unsolved even on the day when Earth is destroyed (by natural phenomena according to the rationalists).
 
Having said the above, let me make two generalizations. While some exceptionally remarkable discoveries may take place here and there by accidents, most of the unraveling of mysteries and solutions to problems are accomplished via systematic studies. While some remarkably brilliant individuals may come from poor environments, most of the talents do come from the environments of talents.
 
Now, on Mr. Rahman's comments:
 
Talking about the race factor, I have a CD of Shyama Sangeets, where I like the tunes of some of the songs. When I hear one particular song, I think, what kind of a deprave is this devotee? It goes like, "tui kali mekhe, jyoti dheke, parbi ne ma faki dite ……" (by covering your glow with black ink, mother, you can not deceive me). The idea is, "even when you disguise yourself as black, I still recognize you, and am fond of you." Now, Syama (Kali) is supposed to be actually black according to the Hindu belief. However, this devotee is praying to this god of his as if she is actually white, just disguising as black. In other words, he has to imagine the black god to be white while praying to her! Black can not be prayed to, even when she is the revered motherly god!!
 
Now, I am not suggesting that most devotees are like that when it comes to the goddess Kali. But, there is no doubt that for the religious and backward sections of the Hindus, white is clearly more desirable and revered than black.
 
As for Mr. Rahman liking the "wisdom of many Hindu scholars", I would say, that probably is because Hinduism, whether religion or philosophy, is not too prescriptive, and many of the so-called scholars are not up to following exactly what was written in the religious books in ancient times.
 
Well that's all for now,
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
=========================================
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from Hinduism

Yes, the so called upper caste Hindus has exploited Shree-Krishna-logic for Millennia, and they are still doing it today in some parts of the Indian subcontinent. It could mean totally different things. In one of my previous posts, I asked for an explanation as to why some children are born with silver-spoon in mouth - while others starts suffering right from the moment they are born. You may say it's a statistical probability, but that answer does not satisfy me. Here is another question – why some people are extraordinarily brilliant (or skilled) in something, while others cannot understand (or do) simple things. It can't be the gene, because we can find brilliant people coming from illiterate parents; it can't be the environment, because we can see this difference within the same environment; it can't be the opportunity, because we can find this difference within the same family. Then, what?
Jiten Roy
 
===========================================
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from Hinduism

(SBain) Talking about conversion to Hinduism, I have wondered, who gets converted to what caste? Who in the world would be interested in getting converted to a Shudra or Chandal? The way I see the attitudes of the powerful Hindus, they would not take the average Muslim or black African for anything better than a Shudra or Chandal. Of course the Hindu leaders have been keen on licking the boots of the Nawabs and the white Europeans. They would not dare converting them to anything less than Brahmin or Kshatitrya. But, why in the world would the average Nawab/British demote himself from kicking the butts of the Hindus to be equal to the Hindus?

>>>>>>>>>> I think beside the economic and power working as "Factors" to this issue, RACE is another factor as well. In most parts of India (Certainly all of Bengal) I have not seen any idol that had "Dark skinned" men or women (Like Durga, Saraswati, etc). They are all very "White" and ironically "Ashur" (Beaten by Durga) is often dark skinned.

I think unconsciously Brahmins had lesser problem in accepting fair skinned Muslims and British raj as their masters. Albeit "Muslim" rule was often an issue but did not become so important until the British wanted to divide us (TO rule our forefathers!!) by sewing hatred between these communities.

My guess is (Pardon me if I am crossing a line here) most Brahmins will have easier time accepting a Muslim like (Saif Ali Khan--white looking) as their masters than accepting Ravon looking lower caste Hindu as their master.

Gandhi (Despite his many limitations) tried very hard to break this racist cycle (Against lower caste Hindus and Muslims) but had to give his life for this mission.

Hinduism has many good teachings in it. Specially I like the wisdom of many Hindu scholars are uplifting. But thousands of years ago the Brahmins came from a different land TO India and put themselves as the "Top dog" of the social and religious ladder.

This is MY OPINIONS only based on observations. So if there are any mistakes, feel free to correct it.




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