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Saturday, July 6, 2013

Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: blog



Boitarani is to be crossed holding the tail of an ox.  Styx and Ful-Serat is to be crossed by a hair thin bridge.  An atheist is, however, free from such punishments.  With death, he/she disintegrates into five basic elements.  Take your pick, and be an atheist to free yourself from punishment in the afterlife.


On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

There are many theological theories to tell us what would happen to butcher Tikka Khan. Mr. Rahman has presented one. It is all matter of faith and clearly devoid of science. 

Hindu religion has the concepts of rebirth, hell, and boitarani river. I remember having seen in my childhood the framed scary pictures hanging from the walls of the rooms of many Hindu families' houses. The boitarani river has to be crossed using a narrow bridge. Below lies water full of ferocious aquatic animals like crocodiles. Tikka Khan will fail to cross the river and will be swallowed by crocodiles. 

In another picture you will see Chitragupta sitting and measuring your sins and good works. As punishment you may have your hands or tongue or breasts chopped.

 This fear factor works for ordinary people. There is reward factor too. Religion treats humans as not being capable of thinking rationally. 

Any way it is all matter of faith. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 30, 2013, at 11:20 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

 

Where was the supernatural power when, for example, the butcher of East Bengal/Baluchistan, Tikka Khan, led the most heinous crimes on innocent humanity? Tikka actually led a life of royalty after the heinous crimes. There are plenty of other examples in the world where the supernatural power (God) has not punished serious criminals.


>>>>>>>>> There are few more "Set questions" pops up time to time trying to support atheist philosophy.

It is a good question and a question preceded by some thoughts.

Just wanted to share a point here that, Allah chose who He will punish and when He will punish. As per scriptures of Islam, punishment in afterlife is a guaranteed things for criminals in afterlife. Sometime Allah delivers some sort of preview in this world as well.

Also sometimes Allah punish some good people for minor sins to free him/her from all sins before they met their Maker.

So while this is a good question, Islam does NOT say punishment will be delivered in this life.

Again just a clarification to those who are not familier with the concept of next life or ever lasting life in Islam. 

I find it wonderful. He thought - Allah could not impose such an unfair rule on the poor people.


>>>>>>>> In the holy Qurán said, Allah does not put any burden on his creation that he/she cannot bear. If a rickshaw puller cannot fast because of some physical limitations but sincere in his faith, Allah may forgive him for it.

 (Asad) God does not burden any human being with more than he is well able to bear:

[ Source: Al Qurán 2:286 ]



But those who attain to faith and do righteous deeds - [and] We do not burden any human being with more than he is well able to bear - they are destined for paradise, therein to abide,

[ Source: Al Qurán
7:42 ]



(Asad) [In all these respects,] let him who has ample means spend in accordance with [15] his amplitude; and let him whose means of subsistence are scanty spend in accordance with what God has given him: God does not burden any human being with more than He has given him - [and it may well be that] God will grant, after hardship, ease. -

[ source: Al Qurán
65:7 ]


He was not a Namazi; he was breaking Roza in public.

>>>>>>> This part may not be forgiven from Islamic stand point, for Muslims it is mandatory to offer Namaz/salat. Again people are asked to pray in bed if they are not able to get up for physical limitation.

Just explaining where Islam stands on this.

The Rickshow-puller was not showing any obedience to the supernatural power, even after the death of his daughter. He did not change at all even after the death of his daughter.

>>>>>>> yes, it is not uncommon to see such people among us.

Shalom!



-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Jun 29, 2013 1:34 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: blog

 

The life of this Rickshaw-puller tells so many lessons, in many ways. He raised the question - how a poor day-laborer, who is pulling his cart in the scorching sun with all his might, can fast. How could Allah ask of a Rickshaw-puller to work without food and drinking water? He was asking all the right questions, and was making all the right decisions without going to a Mollah. I find it wonderful. He thought - Allah could not impose such an unfair rule on the poor people. He said – Allah will understand why he was not fasting, even though Mullahs will not. I find it fascinating.
 
He was not a Namazi; he was breaking Roza in public. I saw the death totally differently also. I thought – she must have eaten so much, for the first time in her life that her stomach could not tolerate.  But, the fact that even after such a loss, the Rickshaw-puller did not submit to supernatural power, and started to smoke in public again. He was thinking that - no one will rebuke him at least at that moment.  

I do not see this story as emphasizing the supernatural power at all. The Rickshow-puller was not showing any obedience to the supernatural power, even after the death of his daughter. He did not change at all even after the death of his daughter.

Jiten Roy
 


From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: blog

 
What! Beautiful story! 'Sangraksan Karun' (archive/preserve it)! Really!!
 
No, this rubbish is not worth archiving in mukto-mona. A poor rickshaw-puller getting most severely punished by the supernatural power for a little deviation from morality! Where was the supernatural power when, for example, the butcher of East Bengal/Baluchistan, Tikka Khan, led the most heinous crimes on innocent humanity? Tikka actually led a life of royalty after the heinous crimes. There are plenty of other examples in the world where the supernatural power (God) has not punished serious criminals.
 
The thought of punishments/rewards by God, the supernatural power, is not rational. I would not encourage it. I would encourage punishments of crimes and shunning of immorality to be done by real human systems. I would encourage the human systems to do the right things.
 
SuBain
 
============================================

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 10:16 AM
Subject:




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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Subject: [Bangladesh-Zindabad] প্রথম আলো---ধীরে ধীরে নিভে গেল সব বাতি
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 15:00:44 -0700 (PDT)

 

Prothom Alo

ধীরে ধীরে নিভে গেল সব বাতি!

 
ঠিক বিকেল পাঁচটা। বিপুল নেতা-কর্মীর সমাগম। কেন্দ্রীয়, মহানগর ও স্থানীয়—কে নেই সেখানে। গমগম করছে আওয়ামী লীগ সভানেত্রীর ধানমন্ডির রাজনৈতিক কার্যালয়। তিল ধারণের ঠাঁই নেই। 
বিকেল সাড়ে পাঁচটা। আত্মবিশ্বাসের সঙ্গে সংবাদ সম্মেলনে প্রতিক্রিয়া ব্যক্ত করেন আওয়ামী লীগের যুগ্ম সাধারণ সম্পাদক মাহবুব উল আলম হানিফ। সাংবাদিকদের কাছ থেকে হাসিমুখে ভোটের খোঁজখবর নিলেন। বললেন, ‘আমরা খবর পেয়েছি, উত্সবমুখর পরিবেশে গাজীপুরে ভোট গ্রহণ সম্পন্ন হয়েছে। এখন গণনা চলছে। আজমতের অবস্থা ভালো।’ এ সময় তাঁর সঙ্গে দলের স্বাস্থ্য ও জনসংখ্যাবিষয়ক সম্পাদক বদিউজ্জামান ভূঁইয়া, উপদপ্তর সম্পাদক মৃণাল কান্তি দাসসহ দেড় শতাধিক নেতা-কর্মী উপস্থিত ছিলেন।
এ সময় তিনটি কেন্দ্রের ফলাফলে এগিয়ে যান গাজীপুরের এম এ মান্নান। তার পরও টিভি সেটের সামনে বসে থেকে ফল দেখতে থাকেন নেতা-কর্মীরা। সবার মুখে হাসি ছিল। হঠাত্ করে একটি বেসরকারি টেলিভিশন চ্যানেলে সংবাদ দেখে চমকে ওঠেন দলের নেতারা। 
তখন ঘড়িতে সময় ঠিক সন্ধ্যা সাড়ে সাতটা। এরপর একে একে কার্যালয় ছাড়তে থাকেন তাঁরা। নেতা-কর্মীদের বলতে শোনা যায়, ‘গাজীপুরের জন্য কী করেনি আওয়ামী লীগ। তার পরও কী করে একজন দুর্নীতিবাজ এগিয়ে থাকে!’ 
রাত আটটার দিকে সভানেত্রীর কার্যালয়ের বাইরের সব আলো নিভিয়ে দেওয়া হয়। দপ্তরে শুধু উপ-দপ্তর সম্পাদক মৃণাল কান্তি আর কার্যালয়ের কর্মচারী ছাড়া কেউ নেই। সবাই গম্ভীর। মুখে কোনো কথা নেই।
গাজীপুরের ফলাফলের বিষয়ে কথা বলতে মুঠোফোনে যোগাযোগ করা হয় দলের সভাপতিমণ্ডলী, উপদেষ্টা পরিষদ ও যুগ্ম সাধারণ সম্পাদক পর্যায়ের নেতাদের সঙ্গে। কিন্তু তাঁদের সবার মুঠোফোন বন্ধ।
যে কার্যালয় কখনো রাত ১২টার আগে বন্ধ হয় না, সেটা বন্ধ করে দেওয়া হয় রাত ১০টায়। নিভিয়ে দেওয়া হয় সব আলো। 
গাজীপুরে আওয়ামী লীগ-সমর্থিত প্রার্থীর জয়ের সম্ভাবনা তিরোহিত হতেই অন্ধকার নেমে আসে আওয়ামী লীগ সভানেত্রীর কার্যালয়ে।

 



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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')



Mr. Azad, I beg to differ on a few minor points.  Fadak was a fertile oasis snatched from the Jews by the Prophet.  Abu Bakr deprived Fatima from its inheritance.  He quoted an edict from Muhammad heard by himself that the property of Prophets become the property of the communities which follow them.  She had stopped talking with Abu Bakr as a result of this deprivation.  As she and Ali would not declare allegiance to Abu Bakr, her house was burnt down along with her inside it, after Ali was forcefully removed.  She was in an advanced state of pregnancy and died a day later.  Twenty four years afterward, when Ali became Caliph, he had already married the widow of Abu Bakr.  He thus became the step father of his 'mother in law' Ayesha.  What an ideal community!! 

Egypt was first conquered during the caliphate of Umar bin Khattab.  One of the reasons that Uthman was killed had been the making of Muabia bin Abu Sufian its Governor.  After the assassination of Uthman, Ali rewarded Muhammad bin Abu Bakr with the Governorship of Egypt.  However, after the death of Ali, Muabia became the Caliph as Hasan bin Ali was incompetent and remained happy with wine and women along with the grant he received from Muabia.  Hasan was poisoned by one of his concubines, Muabia might not have any role in it.  Muhammad bin Abu Bakr was brought in from Egypt and was burnt alive in a bag of straw for his role in the death of Uthman, the third 'rightly guided' Caliph. 

The history of the Arabs is thus a history of uncivilized bunch of thugs.  However, they became somewhat civilized by the Persian influence during the Abbasid rule in Baghdad.



On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com> wrote:
 

"Muhammd won in the short run, but in the long run the Umayyads slaughtered his descendants---"

 >>> You are absolutely right!

Fatima died about 6months after the death of her father. He had lot of mental sufferings after  Muhammd's death,  inflicted by fellow Muslims. Within 10 days of the death of Muhammad, 'Fadak' was confiscated by 1st Caliph Abu Bakar from Fatima /Ali.  Though Mohammad himself gifted it to his daughter. Muhammad owned it as "BOOTY" from the Jews of Khayber.  Abu Bakr even did not give her chance to dry her "tears" after her father's death!

Ali did not get power till 656 CE, a long 24 yrs after the death of Muhammad!   As soon as he got in power, the 1st civil war (Fitna) between Muslims started. He had the 1st war with Ayesha (mother in law).   During his reign (656-661) he had the following wars:

  1. Battle of the Camel (between Ali and Ayesha)  - December, 656 CE
  2. Battle of Siffin  (between Ali and Muwabiya Ibne Abu Sufyan) – July, 657 C ( Kharijites break away from Ali)
  3.  Battle of Nahrawan (Kharijites defeated by Ali)  - 658 C
  4. Conquest of Egypt – 659 CE 

Ali was brutally murdered (by a poisonous dragger) by one of the Kharijii on Januarry 661 CE.  His elder son Hasan was brutally murdered by poison (conspiracy of Muawiya Ibne Abu Sufian) in 670 CE. His 2nd son Hussian Ibne Ali was brutally murdred by soldiers of Yazid bin Muawiya bin Abu Sufian in the battle of Karbala on October 680 CE.  

 Within 48 years of death of Prophet Muhammad, all of his able adult male immediate family members were brutally killed by fellow Muslims.

       



On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 

No in depth analysis is required to understand the events of the prophet hood of Muhammad.  Prior to the claim of meeting the archangel Gabriel, Muhammad was trained by a Nestorian Monk named Sergius/Bahira on religious stories.  After such claim, in course of over ten years, he got the loyalty of not more than seventy followers from a community of over five thousand.  Even that loyalty was bought out with wealth from different sources, e.g., those of Khadija and Uthman among others.  The verses revealed in Mecca were futile effort to earn recognition.  Then he migrated to Medina where he successfully used the Christians against the Jews, looted the caravans and Jewish enclaves, and collected enough wealth to hire mercenaries for his Mecca expedition.  After 'conquering' his dreamland Mecca, he was not sure of security to live in that place and preferred to live in Medina.  Ultimately he probably got killed by his wives, Ayesha and Hafsa, as the Shiite believe. 

Islam was the result of a tribal feud between the Umayyad and the Hashemite community.  Muhammd won in the short run, but in the long run the Umayyads slaughtered his descendants.  Not even his beloved daughter, Fatima, was spared.  A few months after the death of Muhammad, Fatima was burnt down with the house she lived in by the thugs who were close associates of the Prophet.


On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com> wrote:
 

"---which in the eyes of non-believers like the Quraish community was nothing more than a bunch of "rantings of a deranged mind"

>>> One may look at chapter 17, 18 and 19 of this article.

http://www.dhormockery.com/2013/01/blog-post_2450.html

http://www.dhormockery.net/2013/01/blog-post_7880.html

 



On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 7:42 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 

This incorrigible fool, QR, does not know that the concept of nation/state grew after the French Revolution.  Earlier, a nation was properly described as kingdom. Supernatural power had to be invoked to ensure the legitimacy of the rulers.  The Prophet of Islam did not care much about his disciples forming a nation after his death.  It is well known that he did nothing to compile and preserve the holy revelations which in the eyes of non-believers like the Quraish community was nothing more than a bunch of "rantings of a deranged mind".  The quote was taken from the preface of "Muhammad and the Qur'an" - Rafiq Zakaria (p. x, l.12).


On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 8:09 PM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 

Member Abul,

Any credible scholar of Islam knows batter of badr was defensive. The expulsion of Banu Qaynuqa was not a conflict but a result of treason they committed. As per treaty they should have received death penalty but the prophet gave them a lighter punishment. Later on when Banu qurayza did the same thing again, he allowed them to pick up a judge of their choice and they were punishment as per written agreement. Which is well known as the Medina Charter.

Looks like you are making up stuff as you go. Anyone who have some basic understanding of history will tell you that, you are manufacturing fiction here.

Campaign/Treaty of Hudaybiya

>>>>>>> Bunch of Muslims were going for pilgrimage when Meccans stopped them. Muslims did not get into fight but settled for a compromise and returned to Medina. How is this an attack?


. It is the so-called moderates who (knowingly or unknowingly) deceive the faithful ignorant Muslims by their lies and hypocrisy.  We must understand the very fact the prophet Muhammad was a man of 7th century and we are in the 21st.  Anyone who believes that all the teaching of Islam is mandatory [example, sharia/fighting infidels (jihad) etc] is a "fundamentalist", NO EXCEPTION!

>>>>>>>>>>>> NO where in Islam it is prescribed to attack non-violent non-Muslims. Maybe you are stuck with few texts without any knowledge of the contexts.

Secondly the term "Fundamentalist" is a negative word in context of Christianity. As per scripture of Islam, the fundamentals of Islam are sound. I do not know how long you have been a member of this forum but we have discussed a lot about fundamentals of Islam. Please feel free to read up on them.


"prophet Muhammad (PBUH) chose to forgive EVERYONE who persecuted the prophet PERSONALLY".
 >>> Not true!
Prophet Muhammad ordered to kill ten individuals on the day of conquest of Mecca even if they were found inside the Kaba. Among these ten three were female.


>>>>>>>>>> This is the problem of knowing half truths.

Kindly RE-READ what I said. I said he forgave everyone who offended him personally.( I made it in large fonts to get your attention but you missed it). 

Among these ten individuals, there were people who were inciting people to kill prophet Muhammad (PBUH). At that time, he was the head of Islamic state and any conspiracy to kill him is considered an attack on the state. Prophet forgave everyone when they tried to kill him for 13 long years. He did not fight anyone. Rather left his beloved town peacefully in search of peaceful solution. He was given permission to defend Medina when the Meccan pagans started to attack Medina to wipe out the new Islamic state.

Do realize you could have a fist fight with lawyer Obama when he was a civil rights lawyer in south side Chicago. If you even verbally threat him (The same person), it will be considered as an attack on the United States of America and you will surely end up in jail for a long time. If you found conspiring to harm the state, you will find your rear end in some prison cell without any trial (Like Guantanamo bay).

Therefore, it is important to understand what is personal and what is a crime against a state. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was duty bound to punish anyone who were inspiring people to kill him or harm city of Medina. Otherwise he forgave thousands of people who attempted to kill him, who tortured him, mocked him, insulted him, persecuted him for many years.

I am sorry to say that, you do not even understand the situation but make comments that is inaccurate.



Another example of similar situation will be when Bangabandhu allpowed Pakistani officers to leave around 71. This was a settlement where Pakistanis were given exemptions. If any officer still wanted to kill Bengalis, what should we have done to that idiot? Obviously you have no choice but to kill them.

Similarly those ten people were still trying destabilize the peaceful amnesty given by prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Some people were killed for their own actions. Rest of them (Who submitted without any provocation or bloodshed)  were forgiven.

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 1, 2013 6:24 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')

 
"list more than sixty failed or successful battle (expedition /Raid),"- the number of Gazwas committed by the Prophet was more like 89 than like sixty.  Without religious bias, one would brand him as a successful bandit who used the name of almighty Allah to serve his own interest.







On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com> wrote:
 
"Make your point and we can share our views" 
 As I said, the subject is very vast and beyond the scope of discussion in this forum. However, because of your insistence I am answering youclaim on June 23rd according to the written testimony/texts of those earliest Muslim historians.
"Only punished those who wanted to destroy all Muslims from the face of the earth.—"
 >>> Not true! The truth is: In the Biography of  (SWS) by pious Muslims list more than sixty failed or successful battle (expedition /Raid), undertaken by him, in last 10 years of his life in Medina (622-632 CE).  Among those conflicts only two were defensive  (The battle of Wuhud and Trench).  The lists of those conflicts are:
 Ghazwa or Maghazi (where prophet Muhammad himself participated):
 623 CE:  1.  Al –Abwa, 2.  Buwat, 3.  Al-Ushayrah
624 CE : 4. Badr (first), 5. Badr, 6.  Expulsion of Banu Qaynuqa, 7.  Al- Sawiq,.  Ghatafan9.  Bahran
625 CE10.  Ohud, 11.   Humra Al- Asad 12.  Expulsion of Banu Nadir 13.  Dhat –Al- Riqa of Nakhl, 14.  Another Badr
626 CE:  15.  Dumat –Al- Jandal16.  Banu Mustaliq of  Khuzah
627 CE: 17.  Battle of Ditch (Trench /Khandaq) , 18.  Banu Qurayza massacre, 19.  Banu Lihyan of Hudhayl20. Dhu Qarad
628 CE21. Campaign/Treaty of Hudaybiya , 22.  Khaybar   23. Wadi Al-Qura
630 CE: 24.  Conquest of Mecca, 25.  Hunayun, 26.  Al Taif
631 CE: 27.  Tabuk
Sariyyyah  (where prophet  Muhammad did not take part physically):
Thanniyyat Al-Murah,   Al Is, Al Kharran, Nakhala,   Al – Qardah,  Al-Raji,  Bir- Munah, Dhu Al Qassah,  Turabah,  Yemen,  Al-Kadid,  Fadak,  Banu Salaym,  Al Ghamrah, Qatan,  Al-Qurata of Hawazin,  Banu Murrah in Fadak,  Yumn and Jinab,  Al Jamun, Judham,  Wadi Al Qura,  Assasination of Yusayr bin Rizam in Khaybar,  Another attack in Khaybar,  Assassination of Abu Rafi  in Khaybar ,  Assassination of Kaab bin Al-Ashraf,  Assassination of Asma binte Marwan,  Attack and killing of Khalid bin Sufiyan, Mutah,  Dhat Atlah, Banu Al Anbar, Banu Murrah, Dhat Al-Salasil, Valley of Idam,  Al- Ghabah, Al Khabat."
 [Ref: Al Tabari (839-923 CE), 'Tarikh Al Rasul Waal Muluk', Vol-9, Page 1756-1760]
 "Even when the whole arabia was under the feet of Muslim (After Mecca was under Muslims) they did not take revenge, -----,"
 >>> The whole credit goes to Al-Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib (prophet's uncle) and Abu Sufiyan bin Harb.  These two men saved obvious blood shade; to know more, one needs to know what happened in the tent of Muhammad on the night before the "attack and conquest of Mecca". It is the story of "negotiation" between Muhammad and Abu Sufiyan with the help of Al-Abbas. Abu Sufian risked his life to prevent serious blood shed in this conflict; he was about to be killed by Omar ibne khattab on that night.
"prophet Muhammad (PBUH) chose to forgive EVERYONE who persecuted the prophet PERSONALLY".
 >>> Not true!
Prophet Muhammad ordered to kill ten individuals on the day of conquest of Mecca even if they were found inside the Kaba. Among these ten three were female.
 "The important thing to understand that, fundamental values of Islam remained the same".
 >>> True!
The  "fundamentalist" talks and tries to establish the "fundamental values" of Islam. It is the so-called moderates who (knowingly or unknowingly) deceive the faithful ignorant Muslims by their lies and hypocrisy.  We must understand the very fact the prophet Muhammad was a man of 7th century and we are in the 21st.  Anyone who believes that all the teaching of Islam is mandatory [example, sharia/fighting infidels (jihad) etc] is a "fundamentalist", NO EXCEPTION!
Thanks a lot Mr. QR. Please don't be offended, nothing personal!



On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 2:23 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
  >> I am sure you did. That's why my inference about you was, " your understanding of Islam is very primitive---",


>>>>>>>>>> It will be more useful, if you leave the petty personal attacks and get to YOUR POINT (If you have one).

Make your point and we can share our views (That is the idea of this forum/blog).

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jun 26, 2013 5:43 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')

 
"I have been fortunate to spend time with many scholars of Islam (Both Muslims and non-Muslims)--"
 >> I am sure you did. That's why my inference about you was, " your understanding of Islam is very primitive---", and I advised you to learn Islam from the earliest Islamic sources to know  their "hypocrisy and biasses".  
Volume VI-IX of 'History Al-Tabari' covers the time of Prophet Muhammad. If you are too lazy for that then try to spend some time to 'blogs' where untold story of Islam  are often discussed and verify their references from the earliest Islamic sources. 
Learn by yourself, don't rely any one! 


On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 8:11 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
Mr. Rahman,
Let me correct you, "I have no blog and I am not the writer of the article of the link I provided". If you have any questions about those article, please make your "comment"  directly in the comment section of those articles. 

>>>>>>>> will do.

At the same time, the arguments made in those blogs and links provided are without logic but shows a visible discomfort and ignorance of Islam.

I only tried to point those out in my last post.

I have been fortunate to spend time with many scholars of Islam (Both Muslims and non-Muslims). I am aware of differences but I also knows fundamentally Islam is sound.

I agree that, subject is vast but if you study the life of the last prophet (PBUH), you will see Islam was very liberating and compassionate. prophet (PBUH) only punished people who fought against Muslim umma and forgave everyone who wanted to harm him personally. Which says a lot about this man and how Islam was established.

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2013 1:10 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')

 
Mr. Rahman,
Let me correct you, "I have no blog and I am not the writer of the article of the link I provided". If you have any questions about those article, please make your "comment"  directly in the comment section of those articles.  

Mr. Rahman, I have the chance to read many of your comments about Islam. It appears to me that your understanding of Islam is very primitive for the fact that the comment you make is very often argued by a stereotype sets of "words (that you mentioned)" in every mosques around the globe by al kinds of Clergies. If you really believe that "religion" is an essential part of your life, please try to learn it from the EARLIEST POSSIBLE SOURCES before it become contaminated by thousands of dedicated hands who tried to shape "Islam" according to their own way. Few of those earliest sources are:

A) The Life of Muhammad — A Translation of Ibn Ishaq's (704-768 CE) Sirat Rasul Allah – A. GUILLAUME, Oxford University Press, Karachi, 1955
B) The History of Al-Tabari (838-923 CE) – "Tarikh al-rasul wa'l –muluk", Translated and annoted by W. Montogomery Watt and M.V. McDonald (University of Edinburg), State University of New Yok press 1987.
C) Ketab al-Maghazi- by  Al-Waqidi (748-822 CE), Ed Marseden Jones, London 1966.

Obviously the subject is very vast and beyond the scope of discussion in this forum. You will be surprised knowing the "differences" what is said in those text and what we hear from our Clergies. 
 


On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 7:23 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
member Abul,

I read your blogs and links and I am not sure which parts of Islam you have problem with?

When a group of people establish a state, they have to bring down laws, punishments and processes. This is true for any country anywhere in the world.

In our beloved Bangladesh, we saw a lot of violence in post liberation Bangladesh. One member of Mukto-mona even said (In last few days) that, post liberation Bangladesh saw more minority property confiscated than Pakistan era. Regardless of your ideology, it is utter idiotic to expect once you have a functioning state, you will not have codified laws to protect innocent civilians and the state itself against attacking enemies.

If a state could functioned without laws and punishment, the US could have run the whole country with candy bars instead of trillions of dollars in defense, police, jails (The largest in the world) etc.

The important thing to understand that, fundamental values of Islam remained the same. That did not change with time. Even when the whole arabia was under the feet of Muslim (After Mecca was under Muslims) they did not take revenge, prophet Muhammad (PBUH) chose to forgive EVERYONE who persecuted the prophet PERSONALLY.

During the whole life of prophet Muhammad (PBUH), he forgave every personal offender. Only punished those who wanted to destroy all Muslims from the face of the earth.

I think it is a very compassionate and noble approach.

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Jun 22, 2013 9:07 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')

 
Mr. Roy,
You are welcome! I believe that the problem with these people is a "LESSER ONE"!  Not only because they are fewer in number but also we identify them easily by their speech and action. They have no hesitancy declaring clearly and truthfully from where do they get the inspiration (Quran/Sira and Hadit).  Is there any ambiguity of Dr. Firoz kamal's article about the message he tries to 'feed us'? Is there any doubt about his intention and root of his inspiration?
The greater problem is with "us", the so-called moderates.  Religious hypocrites always deceive us by their "PICK AND CHOOSE"  verses/hadits/sira (biography of the prophet) according to "THEIR" convenience.  These hypocrites continue keep the moderate Muslims in darkness mainly by two tactics (knowingly or unknowingly):
 1.  By  "NOT MENTIONING" that many of the tolerant/peaceful  "Meccan" verses are abrogated by more violent "Medina Verses".  In Islam, it is called 'nasikh' and 'mansukh. (http://www.sunnipath.com/library/books/B0040P0021.aspx).
2.  Whenever any of this  "jihadi" does any atrocities or killing innocent people, these hypocrites always "STAND UP" and declare:  "IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM".  
This is going on, and on, and on, and on --.  They sang this song again and again and again whenever any Terrorist incidence happens anywhere in this planet; and "we" the moderate dance with their songs. We forget the very fact that "We" can utter this song millions and billions of time and stay in a stage of "DENIAL" and continue blaming "THESE PEOPLE" forever!  It never solves the problem.  If we do not even acknowledge, identify and understand a "PROBLEM" how can we think of solving it?  We are always find reason to "blame others" and in no time label others as "Islam hater" if he/she criticize my "HOLY FAITH".   
When we continue believing that "FAITH IS A VIRTUE", where is the moral ground of prohibiting others to practice "ANY FAITH' one may hold?  If my "faith" is a virtue (according to "my" understanding of my holy scripture/text/ learning etc), why not yours?  Is it because you are not in agreement with that of mine?   Is it not Hypocrisy? 
Professor Richard Dawkins nicely argued in this video how these terrorists get their support from the moderates:

On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:

 
Thank you, Mr. Azad.

Amazing documentary portrait of Jihad, a must see documentary.

Jiten Roy 



From: Abul Azad <azad973@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2013 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')

 
That was Tareque Masud's "Run way"- (link below).  But, that was "ONLY" a movie! 
The real life events are in Shahriar Kabir's documentary: "Portrait of Jihad." 
PORTRAIT OF JIHAD - A documentary by Shahriar Kabir - 57mins
Tareque Masud's Run way- full movie -90 mins


On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 11:20 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Have you watched the movie by Tarek Masud which some one posted on this forum a couple of weeks ago? 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 21, 2013, at 7:58 PM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

 
It is a good one; quite funny too.

From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>
To:
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 2:57 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] FW: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN')
 
  This for that demented sinner, that fierce 'dhalim' from the age of Jahiliya == F. M. Kamal
Subject: :: :: One Page from My-Diary :: :: :)*BLOW UP DADDY !*:) A HILARIOUS Article~Smiles for U all-:) ('DAWN') 
*BLOW UP DADDY!*

Daddy?
Yes, son.
Are we going to have a war with India?
Perhaps.
Oh, goody. We will thrash them, right? Like we did in 1857!
It wasn't in 1857, son.
Oh, okay. But whom did we thrash in 1857?
The British, son…
And the Hindus too, right?
Well…
Did Quaid-i-Azam fight in that war along with Muhammad bin Qasim and Imran Khan?
No, son. The Quaid and Imran were born much later and Muhammad bin Qasim died many years before.
Then who ruled Pakistan in those days?
There was no Pakistan in those days, son.
But there was always a Pakistan! It has been there for 5,000 years!
Who have you been talking to, son?
No one. I've just been watching TV.
It figures.
Daddy, why are all these people against us Arabs?
Arabs? But we aren't Arabs, son.
Of course we are because our ancestors were Arabs!
No, son. Our ancestors were of the subcontinental stock.
Sub-what?
Never mind.You seem to like wars, son.
Yes. I like to watch them on TV.
But real wars are fought outside the TV, son.
Really? How is that possible? What sort of a war is that?
Never mind.
Daddy, you look worried.
Of course, I am, you little warmongering punk!
Daddy! Why are you scolding me?
Because TV is talking rot and so are you!
Daddy, are you supporting Hindus?
No!
Daddy, have you become a kafir?
Keep quiet! No more TV for you! Go watch a movie on DVD or listen to a CD.
Can't do that.
But we have so many DVDs and CDs, son.
Not any more.
What do you mean?
I burned them all.
What?!
I burned them all.
I heard that! But why?
They spread obscenity.
Oh, God. Son, go do your homework. What happened to that science project you were working on?
It's almost complete.
Good boy. What are you making?
A bomb.
What?!
A bomb.
I heard that! But why?
Because I am a true Muslim who hates America.
But only last week you wanted to go to Disney Land.
That's different.
How come?
Mickey Mouse is Muslim.
No, he isn't.
Is so. He converted when he heard azaan on the moon.
On the moon?
Yes. Because the earth is flat and…
What??
The earth is…
I heard that!
Daddy, do you want to see my science project, or not?
Gosh, that bomb? But your science teacher will fail you.
No, she wont.
Really?
Yes. I plan to blow her up as well.
God, what is wrong with you? Go call your mother!
She can't come.
Why not?
I've locked her in the kitchen.
But what for?
A woman's place is in the kitchen. I will not let her out until she covers herself up peoperly!
But she's your mother!
She's also a woman!
So?
So she should be hidden.
Hidden from whom?
The whole world and Tony.
Tony?
Yes, Tony.
But Tony's a cat.
Yes. But he's male.
Son, have you gone mad?
No. By the way, I've made sure Kitto starts covering up as well.
Kitto?
Yes, Kittto.
But Kitto's a cat!
Yes. But a female cat.
But she'll suffocate.
Oh, she's already dead.
What?
She's already dead.
I heard that! But how?
I buried her alive.
You what?
Yes. To avenge Tony's honour.
But now I will behead Tony.
But why?
To save mom's honour!
Oh, God!
Don't say that. Always say Allah.
What's the difference?
Daddy, do you want to be beheaded too?
No!
Do you want to be stoned to death?
No!
Do you want to be flogged?
No!
Do you want to get your arms chopped off?
No!
Then stop asking silly questions. By the way, I won't call you daddy anymore.
What will you call me then?
Whatever that is Arabic for daddy.
I don't know any Arabic, son.
That's because you are a kafir.
Who the heck are you to tell me who I am, you little fascist twit!
What's a fascist?
An irrational, violent, self-righteous mad man!
W... aaaaaaa...
Why are you crying?
You scolded me.
Okay, I'm sorry. You have to be tolerant and rational, son. Now be a good boy and go read a book instead of watching TV.
I have no books.
Of course, you do. I bought you so many books.
I burned them.
What?
I burned them.
But why?
They were all in English.
So?
It's a non-Muslim language!
But we are speaking English, aren't we?
W... aaaaaaa…
What now?
Zionists made me forget my Arabic.
But you never knew any Arabic, son.
W... aaaa… yes, I did until you and mommy gave me the polio drops… aaaaa…
Okay, tell me, can you do me a favour?
Sure, dad.
Can you blow up something for me?
Oh, goody! Of course, dad.
What should I blow? A CD shop, a hotel, a school...?
No, no, something a lot more sinister.
Mom?
No, no…
What then?
The TV set!
What?
Blow the TV set.
I heard that! But why?
Just do it!
I see. Dad?
Yes.
.....'You're so unconstitutional....'!
 
 
{ Source :-( A gut-wrenchingly hilarious article published by Pakistan's leading English Daily- DAWN)


~ My 'Salaams' to You All ~
 
~ Y a s m i n ~
 Say, 'Indeed, my Prayer, my Rites of Sacrifice,
my Living and my Dying are for ALLAH, Lord of the Worlds'.
{'Quran'~Surat Al-'An`am -# 6-162.}
{'In Shaa Allah'~'Aameen'}
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