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Tuesday, December 30, 2014

RE: [mukto-mona] Re: Child marriage is halal said: Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia: Shaikh Abdul Aziz Al Shaikh.



Blasphemy should also include carrying non-Islamic surname like Chowdhury(originally Jewish).

 
Very interesting. I never knew that 'Chowdhury' is a Jewish name.
 
This means many Hindus and Muslims in the sub-continent have their ancestors who were Jewish
 
Am I correct?
Could you please elaborate further?
 
AK

 

From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 06:42:10 +0600
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Child marriage is halal said: Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia: Shaikh Abdul Aziz Al Shaikh.

 
Blasphemy should also include carrying non-Islamic surname like Chowdhury(originally Jewish).

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 30, 2014, at 1:41 PM, "Abul Kasem abul88@hotmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 


Hi FC;
 
Can you cite a few examples how SKM and others have demeaned Islam.
 
The truth is: You are demeaning Islam by comparing it with other religion like Hinduism.
 
Allah says His religion is Islam (3:19)
 
Allah says that the only religion acceptable to Him is Islam (3:85)
 
Therefore, comparing Islam with any other religion is pure blasphemy.
 
AK

 

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From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 14:28:34 -0500
Subject: [mukto-mona] Re: Child marriage is halal said: Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia: Shaikh Abdul Aziz Al Shaikh.

 
If you and your mostly Hindu cohorts can demeam Islam, humiliate Muslims and criticise Holy Qur'an, then why can't I point out with evidences the heinous, barbaric, inhuman and criminal activities committed by your Indian friends under the influence of Geeta or Bedh Bakka? If you or your friends can criticise the birth place of Islam, Mecca and Holy Prophet (SWS), then why can't I talk about India, the birth place of the Hindu religion and Priests? If you can write against Allah, then why can't I do the same against your god and goddesses?
I do not have any problem if you or your friends worship man made Deity or God, glamorous goddesses or thirty three crore gods/goddesses as long as you do that peacefully and with giving due respects to the worshipers of other faiths. I don't care whether you or your friends take live Kumari goddess or Devadasi girls (under the age of 13) to the bed as long as you do not criticize Prophets or leaders of Islam. Like every civilized people, I will respect you or your cohort's faith and Indians as long as you do not demean my religion including it's birth place, humiliate believers and/or criticize holy book.

Thanks,

FC

On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Syed Mirza <skmirza.mirza@gmail.com> wrote:
Mr. Faruk,

How one can compare or justify religious matter (Koran and hadiths) with earthly matters like what happens in Indian women etc? Do you agree or disagree what I gave you from the religion of peace? Do you disagree the dictums of Koran and hadiths? Tell us clearly, please!
Your arguments do not fit my posting from the core of religion of Islam. Just read what did I post from Islam and ask why Saudi Grand Mufti can support what I told about Koran and Islam???? Please don't waste our time by your gibberish. 

SKM


On Sun, Dec 28, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Farukh Chowdhury <farukhchowdhury@gmail.com> wrote:
Mr. Sen, Mirza, Shah Deeldar and your cohorts:

Why don't you say...all criminal and inhuman activities are done by the 15 million Muslims in the billion+ populated India? Why don't you cite all below mentioned heinous acts are written do in the Holy Qur'an (Astaghfirullah), Such as:

1.  Millions of virgin girls are made "Temple prostitutes" before their pubrties (mostly under the age of 13) for satisfactions of the "Brahmins "and "Priests" lusts in the name of "Devadasi "in India today. Muslims should be blamed for this, is this correct? "Hinduism devadasi' girls face wretched life in the name of religion In India !!!!"...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU-kim2Xixs

2.  Millions of unborn girls are killed/murdered inside their mothers' wombs before their born every year in India. Muslims parents should be blamed for such heinous acts, is it correct? India Has Killed 10 Million Girls in 20 Years - ABC News...https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=million+child+are+killed+before+birth+in+india

3. India is declared as The Number 1 (one) Rape Country of the World because hundreds of thousands women and girls are raped in India every year. Muslims are doing all these, is this correct too? Rape and India's "Untouchable" Caste..."But the reality may be far worse than the statistics show"...http://www.vocativ.com/world/india/rape-indias-untouchable-caste/

There are so many examples like above.
 
Pull out your turtle heads from covered skin, take a deep breath and look around your shallow backs without spitting on others and hiding yourself under fealthy water quickly.

FC

On Sun, Dec 28, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Msa40 <msa40@aol.com> wrote:
 
Is the Grand Mufti of Mecca wrong in his assertion? No. He is not.
 
He has relied on Quran's verse 65:4. See Maududi's Tafsir of this verse.
 
 
 
Mohammad Asghar
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Farukh Chowdhury <farukhchowdhury@gmail.com>
To: Syed Mirza <skmirza.mirza@gmail.com>; bangla-vision <bangla-vision@yahoogroups.com>; Bangladesh-Zindabad <Bangladesh-Zindabad@yahoogroups.com>; pfc-friends <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com>; reform-bd <reform-bd@yahoogroups.com>; notun Bangladesh <notun_bangladesh@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: Syeda Hasan <poplu@hotmail.com>; Faruque Alamgir <faruquealamgir@gmail.com>; mohiuddin <mohiuddin@netzero.net>; syed.aslam3 <syed.aslam3@gmail.com>; rezaul_khan <rezaul_k



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Posted by: Abul Kasem <abul88@hotmail.com>


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[mukto-mona] Resurgence of Godse worship ISP I Jan 2015



Resurgence of Godse Worship

 
Ram Puniyani
 
 
Times are a changing; and changing fast. During last many decades most Hindu nationalists have kept the appreciation of their hero, Nathuram Godse under wraps. The programs appreciating his politics did use to make small news here and there some time; but as such it was a muted act not much publicized and generally kept as a low key affair. During last few years Pradeep Dalvi's play in Marathi, Mee Nathuram Boltoy (I, Nathuram speaking), attacking Gandhi and upholding Godse, drew packed houses in various places in Maharashtra. Many people had also protested against staging of this play off and on.
 
With the new dispensation coming to power (Modi Sarkar, May, 2014) many a communal assertions, acts and intimidations are up in the air. It seems these acts are being silently appreciated by those in power. This inference is logical as none in the positions of power have either reprimanded or opposed these Godse acolytes. The main reason is that due to the compulsions of power they do not openly support the Godse appreciation clubs. They also do not condemn these voices as they too belong to the Godse ideology of Hindu nationalism. This Hindu nationalism in popular parlance is projected as 'Nationalism', keeping the Hindu prefix in the silent mode.
 
The latest in the series of acts-statements by this Godse appreciation clubs is the bhumi pujan (earth prayer-a ritual before beginning of new construction) by Hindu Mahasabha for Godse temple in Meerut (Dec 25 2014). The activists of Akhil Bharatiya Hindu Mahasabha are all set to build the country's first temple for murderer of Mahatma Gandhi in Meerut. There are several demands from the Hindu Mahasabha offices to install his statues. The Hindu Mahasabha has requested land from the Centre to erect a statue of Godse in the national capital. The paperback issue of Godse's book is already running into second reprint.

 

The BJP MP Sakhshi Maharaj recently called Godse as Nationalist; of course he retracted it soon; apparently to ensure that the ruling party, BJP, is not embarrassed on the issue. At the same time, BJP's parent organization RSS has come out with two books meant for internal circulation. These books claim to ensure that RSS viewpoint is reached to its Pracharaks, swayamsevaks. These books are RSS-Ek Parichay (RSS-an introduction) and RSS-Ek Saral Parichay (RSS-a simple introduction), the second of which is written by veteran RSS member MG Vaidya. Mr. Vaidya claims that "a narrative of accusation was built around RSS" so the book to dispel that. Essentially these books aim to dissociate RSS from Godse. While the Prime Minister Mr. Modi is maintaining maun (silence) on the subject the opposition leaders are strongly criticizing Hindu Mahasabha's and others' views on the murder of Mahatma Gandhi by Nathuram Godse.

What is the relationship between Godse and RSS? Was he part of RSS and later left it or was he part of it and also joined Hindu Mahasabha in mid 1930s? As for as official line is concerned RSS has tried to keep its slate clean by stating that it had nothing to do with Godse and he was not a member of RSS when he killed Mahatma Gandhi. Just to recall, in early 1998 Professor Rajendra Singh, the then RSS chief, had stated "Godse was motivated by akhand Bharat. His intention was good but he used the wrong method." (April 27 1998, Outlook)

 

How do we understand the whole issue? The major backdrop to understand the issue is to see the politics of Hindu nationalism as expressed through Hindu Mahasbah and RSS. These organizations remained aloof from freedom struggle. Hindu Mahasabha (HM), was more interested in the immediate participation in politics, as the flag bearers of Hindu communal politics, and the RSS wanted to concentrate on making a network of 'cadres' before forming organizations and infiltrating into different arena of education, culture, electoral politics and state apparatus. There was a lot of overlap in the agenda of these organizations as they were both working for the common goal of Hindu Nation. Nathuram Godse, 'uniquely' symbolized the fusion of both these two trends.
 
RSS could get away with dissociating with Godse or rather underplaying Godse's association with RSS as there was no official record of members of RSS, and so they could disown Godse at legal level. In 1930 Godse joined RSS and very soon rose to be the bauddhik pracharak(intellectual propagator). Like both HM & RSS he was ardent Hindu Nationalist.
 
As a strong Hindutvawadi he was extremely critical of Gandhi's ahimsa (non-violence) and the anti British movements led by him. Godse had very poor opinion of Gandhi's role in freedom movement. RSS-Hindu Mahasbha kept criticizing Gandhi for his involving all religious communities in the freedom movement. Gandhi kept religion as personal matter and projected overarching Indian identity for all. This was what annoyed the HM-RSS combine, as they wanted only Hindus to be recognized as Indians. Godse's assessment of nationalism of Gandhi is expressed in a way which identifies nationalism with Hindu kings. He used very peculiar parameters to assess Gandhi, "His (Gandhi's, added) followers cannot see what is clear even to the blind viz. that Gandhi was a mere pigmy before Shivaji, Rana Pratap and Guru Govind (ibid Pg. 40, Why I assassinated Gandhi?) and finally about the winning of swaraj and freedom I maintain the Mahatma's contribution was negligible." (Ibid. pg. 87)
 
He held Mahatma responsible for appeasing Muslims, and thereby the formation of Pakistan.  About his association with RSS and Hindu Mahasabha, he writes, "Having worked for the uplift of the Hindus I felt it necessary to take part in political activities of the country for the protection of just rights of Hindus. I therefore left the Sangh and joined Hindu Mahasabha  (Godse, 'Why I Assassinated Mahatma Gandhi' 1993, Pg.  102).
 
Hindu Mahasabha at that time the only political party of Hindutva, and he became general secretary of its Pune Branch.  In due course he started a newspaper, as founder editor, called Agrani or Hindu Rashtra.  As such Gandhi murder was not on the charges propagated by them (Partition and insistence on paying Pakistan's dues (55 crore) from the treasury), but due to the basic deep differences with the politics of Gandhi and that of the followers of the Hindu Rashtra.  These two reasons are proffered merely as a pretext for the same.
 
What does Godse mean when he says that he left RSS? Is it true? This truth behind Nathuram's leaving RSS, is clarified by his brother Gopal Godse. In an interview given to 'The Times of India' (25 Jan 98); Gopal Godse, who was also an accomplice in the murder when tells us the reality behind Nathuram's statement that 'he left RSS'. Gopal Godse says "The appeasement policy followed by him (Gandhi, added) and imposed on all Congress governments' encouraged the Muslim separatist tendencies that eventually created Pakistan…Technically and theoretically he (Nathuram) was a member (of RSS), but he stopped workings for it later. His statement in the court that he had left the RSS was to protect the RSS workers who would be imprisoned following the murder. On the understanding that they (RSS workers) would benefit from his dissociating himself from the RSS, he gladly did it."
 
So this is the logic of Godse saying that he 'left' RSS. The dual membership (RSS+Hindu Mahasabha) was not a problem. Thus the murder of Gandhi was steeped in both the streams of Hindutva politics, RSS and HM.  His editing the paper called, 'Hindu Rashtra was quite symbolic.  This murder had a broad sanction of the followers of HM and RSS, as they celebrated Mahatma's murder by distributing sweets, "All their (RSS) leaders' speeches were full of communal poison.  As a final result, the poisonous atmosphere was created in which such a ghastly tragedy (Gandhi's murder) became possible.  RSS men expressed their joy and distributed sweets after Gandhi's death."  (excerpt from Sardar Patel's letters to M S Golwalkar and S P Mookerjee.). Godse was no freak.  The way Hindu communalists were spewing poison against Gandhi, it was the logical outcome of their politics.  And Godse had the 'benefit' of the teachings of both RSS as well as HM. They used the word wadh for this murder. This word wadh stands for killing a demon who is harming the society. In a way Gandhi murder was the first major offensive of the Hindutva politics on Indian Nationalism; in a way it was to herald the onset of bigger strides which Hindutva politics has assumed during last few decades, and this is what we are witnessing today.
 
So though officially RSS family kept dissociating from Gandhi's murder by Godse, in private many a members not only uphold the dastardly act, but also have even succeeded in undermining the importance of Mahatma and they do 'sympathize' with Godse. This complex trick kept going on so far. Now with Modi Sarkar there is no need to hide the true ideology and thinking of this combine and so the open efforts to glorify Godse!
 --
Response only to ram.puniyani@gmail.com



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Posted by: ram puniyani <jhang45@yahoo.com>


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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





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Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: যিনি এ ভাবে একাগ্রচিত্বে পবিত্র কোরান তেলওয়াত করেন !!!!!!



1. Knowing about the details of one's religion will not necessarily make him a religious fanatic or fundamentalist. I myself am an example. Compared to my close relatives I am sure I have studied Hinduism more thoroughly, but I am quite different from them. Analytical thinking coupled with courage may or should eventually make one open minded if not an atheist. 
2. Taking picture of Hasina while she was reading the Koran is nothing but a political stunt. Despite the fact she is a God fearing person, we have to recognize that she is also a political figure. The socio-political environment is such that she has to resort to the policy of appeasement. 
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 30, 2014, at 7:41 PM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Precisely, after knowing what the religions have, a human being who is worth his/her natural intelligence would stop believing in the religions. Unfortunately, too many human beings succumb to their fear of the unknown over living by their natural intelligence.
 
Taknig about the origin of this thread, I generally ignore cronies like Mohammad Ali Manik.


On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 5:59 PM, "Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Learning religion usually leads to atheism.
On Dec 30, 2014 8:13 AM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
A little religious learning is actually much better than a lot of religious learning. A lot of religious learning will transform an individual into a religious robot.
I am glad, Prime Minister does not know much about her religion.  
Jiten Roy   

 

From: "'mahfuzur@aol.com' mahfuzur@aol.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: যিনি এ ভাবে একাগ্রচিত্বে পবিত্র কোরান তেলওয়াত করেন !!!!!!

 
       I did not wish to come back to the subject and I do not wish to start a debate. But I am afraid some readers have missed the main point I was making in my original posting.
       Mr. Chakrabarty writes: " Dr. Manik has his own political agenda and I wish him all success in implementing the ideals of our liberation struggle." I really do not see that the mindset reflected in Dr. Manik's posting is the one that promotes those ideals.  Here is someone who thinks that the political and physical survival of Sheikh Hasina depends on divine intervention. Leaders of the Awami League, as well as those of almost all other parties, routinely say InshaAllah before they open their mouths on their intention to do something, even of minor importance. They visit mazars of saints before starting an election campaign. I always thought the force of our liberation struggle was generated very largely by an idea of secularism that does not ignore religion but sets it apart from politics. This is the very antithesis of Dr. Manki's mindset. This is not merely a matter of forgetting about the fate Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman met.
     Of the Prime Minister's Arabic literacy, the least said the better. Very few Bengali Muslims are really literate in Arabic, either Koranic or other. Some of her pronouncements show the shallowness of her ideas and concepts Islamic. She, for example, talked of ruling the country according to the so-called Medina Constitution. The flaunted document was not a constitution at all. She only mouthed what others told her. Similarly, she recently said that the Koran forbids hurting people's religious sentiment. (No prize for guessing in which context she said this). Actually, nowhere does the Koran say that. This is more than a case of little learning being a dangerous thing. She was making political use of religion.
 
Mahfuzur Rahman     
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: Mahfuzur Rahman <mahfuzur@aol.com>; Abul Kasem <abul88@hotmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 29, 2014 12:28 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: যিনি এ ভাবে একাগ্রচিত্বে পবিত্র কোরান তেলওয়াত করেন !!!!!!

Late poet and radical thinker Humayun Azad once called late poet Shamsur Rahman a grass root level worker of AL. It is quite understandable why I uncompromising and outspoken Humayun Azad did make such a humiliating comment. Comment on Hasina by staunch Awami Leaguer is also expected although his irrational praise of Hasina has blinded him to such an extent that he totally forgot about the incidence of cruel death of Mujib. 
Dr. Manik has his own political agenda and I wish him all success in implementing the ideals of our liberation struggle. 

Now let me write a few words on the general topic of reciting from holy books. We are given an impression that Sanskrit is the language of gods and goddesses. Naturally chanting mantras in Sanskrit and recitation from original Sanskrit holy books bring in more piety and blessings from God. It is also true that only a very negligible fraction of Hindus understand Sanskrit and hence the literal meanings of what they chant or recite. To understand, if they really care, what the same really mean, they will have to rely on some one else who will probably be very selective in picking the verses and interpreting them. 

I have a feeling that Hasina is not Arabic illiterate. Even if she is, she has her own values, judgment, views, and above all humanity not to be carried away with the literal meanings of many verses. She has the capability of interpreting (or rejecting or keeping quiet about) verses in the light of the new time and space she lives in. She knows to whom to go for clarification about particular verses. 
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 28, 2014, at 6:09 PM, Syed Mirza Skmirza.mirza@gmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Thanks for your good understanding Sir.


SKM


On Sun, Dec 28, 2014 at 7:02 PM, Msa40 <msa40@aol.com> wrote:
 
I add my only possession, two cents, to what you have said, Sir!
 
 
 
Mohammad Asghar
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Syed Mirza <skmirza.mirza@gmail.com>
To: Msa40 <msa40@aol.com>
Cc: Mahfuzur Rahman <mahfuzur@aol.com>; mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>; Abul Kasem <abul88@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 28, 2014 2:41 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: যিনি এ ভাবে একাগ্রচিত্বে পবিত্র কোরান তেলওয়াত করেন !!!!!!

Folks;

98% Muslims practice Islam in Arabic the language which they do not understand at all. They all recite Koran and everything of Islam in Arabic just like tontor-montor or abra ka dabra. With that they think they have earned lots of Swab to enter Islamic heaven. Shaik Hasina reads Koran for two main reasons: a) because she is a strong believer of religion and, b) as the PM of Bangladesh she must respect and practice religion to keep her Goddi (Throne) intact in that Islamized Bangladesh. Else, she will lose her throne very easily. 

Allah of Islam or any Allah never saved anybody from any danger. Yet, poor humans will always thank Allah or God for saving just one person (which is a delusion only) but will never question or blame Allah when tens of thousands of humans die helplessly. Humans never blame Allah for anything but very prone to be thankful to Allah almost for no reason at all. This is my two cents. 


SKM



On Sat, Dec 27, 2014 at 8:38 PM, Msa40 <msa40@aol.com> wrote:
 
I think Sk. Hasina is reading the Quran in Arabic. Does she know what she is reading?
 
And nothing happens without Allah's permission. Sk. Mujib was killed with Allah's permission.
Sk. Hasina has survived assassination attempts because Allah wants her to live long!
 
 
 
Mohammad Asghar
 
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: mahfuzur <mahfuzur@aol.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>; msa40 <msa40@aol.com>; skmirza.mirza <skmirza.mirza@gmail.com>; abul88 <abul88@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Dec 27, 2014 10:32 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: যিনি এ ভাবে একাগ্রচিত্বে পবিত্র কোরান তেলওয়াত করেন !!!!!!

   I, like Mr. Manik,wish the Prime Minister well. May she live long. Many in the country share his wish. However, in his enthusiasm he has overlooked an obvious implication of his statement.
   He says, the Prime Minister has survived repeated attempts on her life because Allah Almighty always keeps her fully bestowed with His rahmat. This should lead one to wonder about the fate of her father, Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman who was brutally murdered. Does it then not follow that Bangabandhu did not have Allah's rahmat on him?
   One should avoid saying things without thinking of their implications. An uncritical mind is a dangerous thing to possess. This also suggest that we must not use religion for purposes other than the purely spiritual and personal. In particular, religion should be off-limits to politics. Sadly, in Bangladesh there are all too many minds such as Mr. Manik's.    
 
Mahfuzur Rahman  
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Muhammad Ali man1k195709@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Dec 27, 2014 11:32 am
Subject: [mukto-mona] Fw: যিনি এ ভাবে একাগ্রচিত্বে পবিত্র কোরান তেলওয়াত করেন !!!!!!

 


On Saturday, December 27, 2014 9:13 AM, Muhammad Ali <manik195709@yahoo.com> wrote:


যিনি এ ভাবে একাগ্রচিত্বে পবিত্র কোরান তেলওয়াত করেন , তাহাজ্জুত সহ পাঁচ ওয়াক্ত নামাজ পরেন , তার হাতে দেশ নিরাপদ থাকবে না তো কার হাতে থাকবে ? জননেত্রী যথার্থই বলেছেন 'শকুনির দো'আয় গরু মরে না' ! আল্লাহ সুবহানু তা আলার অশেষ রহমত আপনার উপর আছে বলেই বার বার অপমৃত্যুর হাত থেকে রক্ষা পেয়েছেন। দেশের উন্নতির জন্য , দেশের মানুষের ভালোর জন্য 'আপনার সরকার বার বার দরকার' ! আপনি সুস্থ থাকুন , দীর্ঘ জীবন লাভ করুন।
জয় বাংলা , জয় বঙ্গবন্ধু।
 











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Posted by: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>


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http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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