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Saturday, January 10, 2015

Re: [mukto-mona] [মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ] 'মডারেট, মহম্মদ এবং মার্ক জুকারবার্গ '



As you have called Salman Khan a film actress, he would probably undress and show his dick to you, if he knows what you have done to him. Dementia might have caught on to you. Proper medical advice may be needed. I have a few icons, from Marx to Shiva, at my residence. I don't adore any of them. Farhad Mazhar might have kept Saraswati to display it and nothing more.

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 11, 2015, at 2:27 AM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I still believe the government is not sincere or courageous enough to oblige the Muslims to embrace modern education. It is government's duty to reform madrassa system. It needs to stop appeasing the vested interest groups which include the mollahs many of them even vote for the communists. 

The claim that participation in cultural activities by Muslims is nonexistent is not well founded. I can mention many names to refute the claim. 

Being a religious minority and living in ghetto area may not have same effect. Many Muslims in india are very open minded and sometimes their openness surpasses that of Hindus. Film actress Salman Khan, I have heard, arranges Ganesh puja in his resident. Shahrukh Khan's Hindu wife enjoys full freedom at her home when it comes to celebrating religious festivals. This reminds us what emperor Akbar used to practice.!Even many intellectuals in Bangladesh keep Hindu deities in their house. I have seen in Facebook Farhad Mazhar with the deity of goddess Saraswati in his drawing room. 

I forgot to comment on Dr. Biplob Pal's guesstimates: 99% of Hindus are ready to embrace reforms in their religion while the percentage for Muslims is only 50%. I am not challenging his numbers but referring to above paragraph for my take on it. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 10, 2015, at 12:32 PM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Whether Prophet Muhammad was a moderate or not is not important, since Islam is not run by Prophet now. Islam is now run by millions of leaders, who do not agree with one another. Even an illiterate village Mullah can assume power to announce edicts of Islam. Although, the situation is same with Hindus, but the difference is Hindus are not as crazy about the religion, as Muslims are for theirs.

"…But the rulers have to be proactive by organizing progressive programs and activities and allocating sufficient funds so that they can implemented. Once the rulers become proactive, there will be no dearth of volunteers to support the same. "

There are no dearth of progressive cultural initiatives in West Bengal, but participation from the Muslim community is non-existent. This is because they are being brainwashed constantly by the religious leaders from the Mosque and Madrassas that Islam is under attack by Hindutave. So, they are constantly being advised to reject any other cultures, except to some Arabian cultures to keep their religious faith intact. All governments in West Bengal (WB) have given only what Muslims leaders asked for, which are more funding for Mosque, Madrassas, Hajj, Islamic cultures, etc. 

This has been the case with Muslims in countries, where they are religious minority, including USA. Primary attention is to perpetuate the presence of Islam in those countries; everything else comes next. 
 
On the contrary, most Muslims in Bangladesh never feel the threat of losing Islam to another religion/culture, so they can ignore warnings from the Mosques and Madrassas, and can adhere to the Bengali cultures without hesitation. Bengali culture is the glue that can bring Hindu and Muslims closer in WB, and, that can come only when Muslims there will have enough confidence in their own religiosity, and do not feel threatened by Bengali cultures.
In the end, Government's goal is to appease people, meaning government will try to give (if they can) what people want. So, no government programs can lift Muslims up in the progressive spectrum, if they do not embrace them.
Jiten Roy
 

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2015 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] [মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ] 'মডারেট, মহম্মদ এবং মার্ক জুকারবার্গ '

 
I have read Dr. Pal's article with particular interest. An atheist by strong conviction, Dr. Pal never hesitates to criticize religion based politics-- be it Hindutabad or fanatic and fundamentalist Islamism. 

As he is from Poschimbongo, he knows more about Hindu-Muslim relation in that state than those who are not from India. I will say his observation on the subject is near perfect. I, however, disagree on one point. 

Dr. Hossainur Rahman (I might have misspelled the name), an author from Poschimbongo, has criticized all the secular ruling parties for using the Muslims in the state as vote bank and caring the least about their socio-economic upliftment. The ruling parties' attitude is as follows: Stay in the same dark as you are in now. We will not bother you. But vote for us. Mamata has been following the same policy. If BJP comes to power, it will do the same thing. (Modi distributed borkha to Muslim women before election. That is symbolic). Sachar Commussion report is a shame for secular India. 

I am sure some will argue: Don't the Muslims have any role? I am sure they have. But the rulers have to be proactive by organizing progressive programs and activities and allocating sufficient funds so that they can implemented. Once the rulers become proactive, there will be no dearth of volunteers to support the same. 

We have to remember that religious fundamentalism, fanaticism and militancy thrive on poverty and illiteracy. Data indicate how easy it is to recruit suicide bombers, for example, from among the socially and economically distressed people. And when you are in bad shape socially and economically, you do not feel like belonging to the mainstream and thus you suffer from identity crisis in a secular democratic country. And that feeling makes you tempted to resign or strike. 

Dr. Pal has opined that a new Muhammed in the new age is needed to bring about the reforms in Islam. Sisi has appealed to the Ulema to bring about a new Islamic revolution. What else could he do? Reject the Koran and Islam and get assassinated by one of his soldiers? Before we challenge him, we should remember that he ousted a legitimate government which was inclined heavily to Islamic fundamentalism. If you read unbiased authors like Karen Armstrong, you should agree that Muhammed was progressive with respect to his time and was also dynamic in thinking. But the fundamentalists and fanatics have hijacked the religion and extrapolation has been made almost impossible. 

Literally the proposition of welcoming a new Muhammed is a mission impossible; but what does not seem impossible is highlighting the good teachings in Islamic teachings and reinterpreting many teachings and keeping quiet about the rest and sending them to cold storage for blissful solitude. 


Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 9, 2015, at 4:05 AM, WordPress মুক্তমন@vps5925.inmotionhosting.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ has posted a new item,
'মডারেট, মহম্মদ এবং মার্ক
জুকারবার্গ '

আর ইসলামের বিরুদ্ধে এই লড়াইএর
অনুপ্রেরনা যদি কেও হতে
পারেন-তিনি হজরত মহম্মদ নিজে (
যদ�


__._,_.___

Posted by: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] [মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ] 'মডারেট, মহম্মদ এবং মার্ক জুকারবার্গ '



Biplab Pal has concocted a Marxist analysis on the rise of the Prophet and Islam. However his point of view has no historical basis. He could do better if he read leading scholars who wrote on the history of Islam. Beside the Cambridge history, he could read Guillaume, Montgomery Watt, Bernard Lewis, Hitti etc. 

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 11, 2015, at 12:32 AM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Whether Prophet Muhammad was a moderate or not is not important, since Islam is not run by Prophet now. Islam is now run by millions of leaders, who do not agree with one another. Even an illiterate village Mullah can assume power to announce edicts of Islam. Although, the situation is same with Hindus, but the difference is Hindus are not as crazy about the religion, as Muslims are for theirs.

“…But the rulers have to be proactive by organizing progressive programs and activities and allocating sufficient funds so that they can implemented. Once the rulers become proactive, there will be no dearth of volunteers to support the same. â€œ

There are no dearth of progressive cultural initiatives in West Bengal, but participation from the Muslim community is non-existent. This is because they are being brainwashed constantly by the religious leaders from the Mosque and Madrassas that Islam is under attack by Hindutave. So, they are constantly being advised to reject any other cultures, except to some Arabian cultures to keep their religious faith intact. All governments in West Bengal (WB) have given only what Muslims leaders asked for, which are more funding for Mosque, Madrassas, Hajj, Islamic cultures, etc. 

This has been the case with Muslims in countries, where they are religious minority, including USA. Primary attention is to perpetuate the presence of Islam in those countries; everything else comes next. 
 
On the contrary, most Muslims in Bangladesh never feel the threat of losing Islam to another religion/culture, so they can ignore warnings from the Mosques and Madrassas, and can adhere to the Bengali cultures without hesitation. Bengali culture is the glue that can bring Hindu and Muslims closer in WB, and, that can come only when Muslims there will have enough confidence in their own religiosity, and do not feel threatened by Bengali cultures.
In the end, Government’s goal is to appease people, meaning government will try to give (if they can) what people want. So, no government programs can lift Muslims up in the progressive spectrum, if they do not embrace them.
Jiten Roy
 

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2015 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] [মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ] 'মডারেট, মহম্মদ এবং মার্ক জুকারবার্গ '

 
I have read Dr. Pal's article with particular interest. An atheist by strong conviction, Dr. Pal never hesitates to criticize religion based politics-- be it Hindutabad or fanatic and fundamentalist Islamism. 

As he is from Poschimbongo, he knows more about Hindu-Muslim relation in that state than those who are not from India. I will say his observation on the subject is near perfect. I, however, disagree on one point. 

Dr. Hossainur Rahman (I might have misspelled the name), an author from Poschimbongo, has criticized all the secular ruling parties for using the Muslims in the state as vote bank and caring the least about their socio-economic upliftment. The ruling parties' attitude is as follows: Stay in the same dark as you are in now. We will not bother you. But vote for us. Mamata has been following the same policy. If BJP comes to power, it will do the same thing. (Modi distributed borkha to Muslim women before election. That is symbolic). Sachar Commussion report is a shame for secular India. 

I am sure some will argue: Don't the Muslims have any role? I am sure they have. But the rulers have to be proactive by organizing progressive programs and activities and allocating sufficient funds so that they can implemented. Once the rulers become proactive, there will be no dearth of volunteers to support the same. 

We have to remember that religious fundamentalism, fanaticism and militancy thrive on poverty and illiteracy. Data indicate how easy it is to recruit suicide bombers, for example, from among the socially and economically distressed people. And when you are in bad shape socially and economically, you do not feel like belonging to the mainstream and thus you suffer from identity crisis in a secular democratic country. And that feeling makes you tempted to resign or strike. 

Dr. Pal has opined that a new Muhammed in the new age is needed to bring about the reforms in Islam. Sisi has appealed to the Ulema to bring about a new Islamic revolution. What else could he do? Reject the Koran and Islam and get assassinated by one of his soldiers? Before we challenge him, we should remember that he ousted a legitimate government which was inclined heavily to Islamic fundamentalism. If you read unbiased authors like Karen Armstrong, you should agree that Muhammed was progressive with respect to his time and was also dynamic in thinking. But the fundamentalists and fanatics have hijacked the religion and extrapolation has been made almost impossible. 

Literally the proposition of welcoming a new Muhammed is a mission impossible; but what does not seem impossible is highlighting the good teachings in Islamic teachings and reinterpreting many teachings and keeping quiet about the rest and sending them to cold storage for blissful solitude. 


Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 9, 2015, at 4:05 AM, WordPress মুক্তমন@vps5925.inmotionhosting.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ has posted a new item,
'মডারেট, মহম্মদ এবং মার্ক
জুকারবার্গ '

আর ইসলামের বিরুদ্ধে এই লড়াইএর
অনুপ্রেরনা যদি কেà¦" হতে
পারেন-তিনি হজরত মহম্মদ নিজে (
যদিà¦" তার জীবনীর প্রায় সবটাই
কাল্পনিক) । à¦"ই সময় মক্কাতে
যারা শাসক দল ছিল, তারা ধর্মকে
কাজে লাগিয়ে মক্কা-সিরিয়া
ব্যবসার à¦"পর সম্পূর্ন কব্জা
রেখেছিল। ছোট ছোট ব্যবসায়ীদের
à¦"পর কর এবং সুদের হার বাড়িয়ে
যাচ্ছিল। যার প্রতিবাদে এক
আর্থসামাজিক আন্দোলন হিসাবে
ইসà=


__._,_.___

Posted by: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

[mukto-mona] Re: Egypt’s President Sisi: A Titan For Freedom in the Islamic World Calls for Reformation of Islam.



Western uprising and vigorous protests against Islamic terrorisms have already started in Germany and next will be in France.  Jut wait, things are coming soon which will make everything done by the Islamists for the last 15 plus years will be disclosed before the western world.  Islamic taqqiyya  and PC games of western politicians will face big problem in the near future. Muslim leaders like Sisi can save the Muslim world from the backlash of the west.  

SKM


On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 10:24 AM, Shah DeEldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, at least, Sisi has spoken while others are keeping their silence to stay out of trouble. It is only matter of time when the next terror attack will paralyze again another civil society, where people are busy in creating Arts, Science, Ideas and Music. The battle has started within the civil societies with their mortal enemies. The choice is very simple. Speak up and deal with the devils! Now or never!
-SD

On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 8:01 PM, Syed Mirza <skmirza.mirza@gmail.com> wrote:
Gentlemen:

Thank you all for your valuable comments. Although I am somewhat in full agreement with all of your's appropriate comments about the speech of Pres. Sisi of Egypt, I must say: President Sisi is very courageous to my judgement. Unfortunately, Sisi's great comment did not get appropriate medias attention, I don't know why! May be Medias did not understand his unusual speech at all. Let's hope that the recent Jihadis actions in France may jolt the appeasing mindsets of western enmedias and do act positively to save the western civilization. I think, these four al-qaeda jihadists in France made  some good job of killing most of the Taqqiya practices of western useful idiots. West must rise up from their PC nonsensical dream and taste the real coffee offered by those four Islamic jihadists in France.


SKM 











On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 7:02 PM, Shah DeEldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com> wrote:
The situation is totally hopeless. President is a politician and he has to follow the script. This is not a world before the second world war. Every word is uttered, is scrutinized by our liberal pundits. They would find fault with the infidel societies. The societies are unjust and particularly xenophobic to only one religion? And, the show will go on until Kalasnikovs start ruling the towns and pundits would be on their knees.
-SD

On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Msa40 <msa40@aol.com> wrote:
 
Just a while ago, the French President told his nation that what has happened in his country just
two days ago was not an Islamic act. Islam is as pure as the milk in the cow's udder!!
 
 
Mohammad Asghar
 
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Fri, Jan 9, 2015 11:57 am
Subject: RE: Egypt's President Sisi: A Titan For Freedom in the Islamic World Calls for Reformation of Islam.

I think Sisi is a great pretender---an Islamic Taqiyya tactician per excellence.
 
The slight black spot on his forehead could be a done-up job just to please the 'moderates'. I do not recall seeing this black spot in other pictures that show him in military garb.
 
It is  easier to fight the islamist terrorists who are honest and cool--I mean cool murderes, because they enforce Quran in toto.
 
It is much difficult to fight a taqiyya tactician like Sisi. I think his pretensions are to be in the nek najar of the Western aid donors--now that there is a clear sign that the West, especially in Germany, Holland and France a grass root movement is slowly taking shape. This movement, though embryonic at this moment,  will soon spread to the other parts of Europe. Fed up with the 'moderate' Muslims, a large segment of these population will demand the deportation, those who are deportable,  of these 'moderates' and to impose complete ban on further Islamic immigration.
 
There is a large population of Egyptian in many European countries. Sisi is aware of the contribution of remittances from these Egyptians.
 
I think the next grass root movement against Islam will start in the US; the Americans are fed up with the ghan-ghan of another takiyya tactician per excellence--Hussein Barack Obama.
 
AK
 
 

 

To: poplu@hotmail.com; skmirza.mirza@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Egypt's President Sisi: A Titan For Freedom in the Islamic World Calls for Reformation of Islam.
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2015 13:45:23 -0500

 
I can see a slightly black mark on the forehead of Gen. Sisi. It is gracing his forehead due to the
daily five Salat he offers to Allah. On the Day of Judgment, if it occurs at all, this mark would
help Allah recognize him as a good and true Muslim and then send him to heaven so that he can
screw an unlimited number of ever-virgin Hurs and perpetually fresh and young boys!
 
Yes, Gen. Sisi is a Titan for those Muslims, who would want to enter heaven with him in their
next life!
 
 
 
Mohammad Asghar
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Jamal Hasan <poplu@hotmail.com>
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Sent: Fri, Jan 9, 2015 4:13 am
Subject: RE: Egypt's President Sisi: A Titan For Freedom in the Islamic World Calls for Reformation of Islam.

Egypt's Al-Sisi Wants An Islamic 'Revolution' – The Good Kind

OPINION
Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi delivers a statement following a meeting with French President Francois Hollande at the Elysee Palace in Paris, November 26, 2014. REUTERS/Philippe Wojazer   

Egypt's Al-Sisi Wants An Islamic 'Revolution' – The Good Kind

12:06 PM 01/08/2015
 
All the condolences and hand-wringing of world leaders about yesterday's attack on the French satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo will not put a dent in the problem of radical Islam.
A voice of moderation from a major Islamic leader, though, might make a difference. Yet the West almost entirely ignored one of the most remarkable speeches coming out of the Middle East in memory. On New Year's Day, Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi gave an address at Al-Azhar, the oldest and most prestigious religious school of the Sunni world. He said:
"It's inconceivable that the thinking that we hold most sacred should cause the entire umma (multinational community of Muslim believers) to be a source of anxiety, danger, killing and destruction for the rest of the world. Impossible! That thinking – I am not saying 'religion' but 'thinking' – that corpus of texts and ideas that we have sacralized over the years, to the point that departing from them has become almost impossible, is antagonizing the entire world. It's antagonizing the entire world!
"Is it possible that 1.6 billion [Muslims] should want to kill the rest of the world's inhabitants – that is 7 billion—so that they themselves may live? Impossible! … I say and repeat again that we are in need of a religious revolution. You, imams, are responsible before Allah. The entire world, I say it again, the entire world is waiting for your next move… because this umma is being torn, it is being destroyed, it is being lost – and it is being lost by our own hands."
Sisi realizes that the specter of Islamism will not be diminished by political action or suppression – including by Egypt's own forces. Ideology must be matched by ideology; a different Islam needs to be preached and taught in tens of thousands of mosques and madrassas – including the small ones, not just the large ones that welcome camera crews.
Sisi's speech was a rare inversion of truth-to-power. Sisi used his political power to coerce the imams (whose funding comes from the state) to change their rhetoric. More importantly, he appealed to their sense of truth about their own religious convictions. Have they not made a mockery of their faith? When billions of people around the globe think of Islam, do they think "the religion of peace," or do they think of attacks on chocolate shops in Sydney; beheaded Christian children in Iraq; and schoolgirls sold as sex slaves in Nigeria? Only a global chorus of Muslim voices saying, "Not in our names, and not in the Name of Allah!" will counter the gruesome images non-Muslims see.
Why did the West completely ignore what should have been a welcome call for a religious revolution? No doubt many have reservations – as they should – about someone whose rise to power was hardly an exercise in Jeffersonian democracy.
But they miss the point. More significant than the speaker's identity was what he understood about the receptivity of his audience. Sisi believed that the imams would "get it." He felt that enough citizens in the oldest and most populous state in the Muslim Middle East care about what the rest of the world thinks, and are unhappy that their faith is generally reviled and detested. Islam could change its image, but only after a reconstruction – a revolution, as Sisi called it – that would have to come from the clergy.

 http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/08/egypts-al-sisi-wants-an-islamic-revolution-the-good-kind/

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 20:53:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Egypt's President Sisi: A Titan For Freedom in the Islamic World Calls for Reformation of Islam.
From: skmirza.mirza@gmail.com
To: msa40@aol.com

Mr. Asghar,

Thanks for your highly correct and appropriate interpretation of President Sisi's speech about Tyrannical Islamic scriptures in the so called holy Koran. Most unfortunate things are: not even 5% muslims read koran to understand the scriptures; rather they read it only to get sawab to enter lustrous heaven. Muslims read Koran as tontor Montor, or abra ka dabra and say each other "how sweet and how holy Koran is...". Truly, Koran is full of hatreds and the word 'love' does not exists at all. That is why President Sisi asked muslim world to dump it for ever to bring real peace in the whole world. By the way, today's jihadi action in France has more justified for the fear and skepticism of President Sisi, and the world must identify Islam as the most dangerous ideology and must deal accordingly.


SKM


 
On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Msa40 <msa40@aol.com> wrote:
 
Interpretation of what Sisi has said:
 
What the Quran says is not applicable today and as such, it should be dumped forever!
 
 
 
Mohammad Asghar
 
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Syed Mirza <skmirza.mirza@gmail.com>
farukhchowdhury <farukhchowdhury@gmail.com>; naushad49 <naushad49@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Jan 6, 2015 5:25 pm
Subject: Egypt's President Sisi: A Titan For Freedom in the Islamic World Calls for Reformation of Islam.




Egypt's President Sisi: Islamic "Thinking' Is 'Antagonizing the Entire World"


At last, at least one brave and honest Muslim leader spoken the real truth about Islam which we have never heard before from any Muslim leader from the entire world. So far, we only heard some Islamic Taqqiyya and utter lies about Islamic deceptions.
President Sisi said: "Is it possible that 1.6 billion people [Muslims] should want to kill the rest of the world's inhabitants—that is 7 billion—so that they themselves may live? Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi gave an extraordinary, groundbreaking speech on Islam on New Year's day. Sisi said that the "corpus of [Islamic] texts and ideas that we have sacralized over the years" are  "antagonizing the entire world"; that it is not "possible that 1.6 billion people [reference to the world's Muslims] should want to kill the rest of the world's inhabitants…."
 


Thanks.


Syed K. Mirza


 

 
 







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