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Sunday, February 9, 2014

[mukto-mona] SORRY, Khaleda -Death figures blown out of proportion [JUGGLERY OF FIGURES] !



SORRY, Khaleda

Death figures blown out of proportion

Shakhawat Liton and Rashidul Hasan



In her latest press conference, BNP Chairperson Khaleda Zia gave figures on the killing of BNP-led alliance leaders and activists between December 26 and January 27 this year, which are not supported by facts on the ground.  
The Daily Star investigated the high death figures in nine districts presented by the BNP chief, and found them incorrect, exaggerated and false.  
Khaleda on February 4 claimed that law enforcers and Awami League men had killed 242 BNP-led alliance men in 34 districts across the country during the period. She, however, gave the names of only five of the victims (two cases of killing and three of forced disappearance).
The nine districts with high death figures are shown in the infographic.
Upon cross-checking with local BNP leaders in the nine districts, The Daily Star found that there had been only 17 deaths during the period as against 152 claimed by Khaleda.  
The Daily Star had earlier run reports on the 17 deaths in the nine districts.
Khaleda told the press conference that the death figures were based on information received by the BNP central office, and the "real picture was even worse."
According to BNP sources, a few staff of the central office collected the information on the deaths over the last one year by calling up party's district leaders.
Asked about this, some district BNP leaders said Khaleda had cited a year's death figure as a month's death toll. And most district BNP leaders don't accept her claim.
CROSS-CHECKING OF FACTS
According to Khaleda's claim, 27 people, including five activists of the BNP and Jubo Dal, were killed. And almost all of the remaining victims are local members of Jamaat-e-Islami and its student wing Islami Chhatra Shibir.
But according to journalists in Satkhira, seven people were killed in the district in the one-month period. Police have put the figure at six.
Rahmatullah Palash, president of Satkhira district BNP, said, "I am sure that 27 people were not killed in one month in my district."
Khaleda put the death figure at 23 in Chandpur. Of the victims, 21 belonged to the BNP, Chhatra Dal, Jubo Dal and Sramik Dal.  
But Chandpur district BNP President Mominul Haq said those 23 people were not killed in one month, they were killed in the last five or six months.
Mominul said he didn't have any record on deaths of opposition men during the one-month period.
The Daily Star carried a report on the death of a Juba Dal leader in the district in that period.
The BNP chairperson claimed that 20 people were killed in Laxmipur, and almost all of them were local leaders of her party and its front organisations.
Harun-ur Rashid, organising secretary of Laxmipur district BNP, however, said only two opposition men were killed during the period.
Khaleda also mentioned that 17 activists of the BNP, Chhatra Dal and Jubo Dal were killed in Cox's Bazar. But district BNP President Shajahan Chowdhury and its Office Secretary Yusuf Badri said no BNP man was killed during the period.  
According to the BNP chairperson's claim, 15 people, including eight local leaders of the party and its front organisations, were killed in Chittagong. Gazi Shajahan Jewel, general secretary of Chittagong district (North) BNP, said he had sent a list of the dead to the party's central office, but he refused to give it to The Daily Star.
During the period, The Daily Star ran reports on deaths of four opposition men, which were corroborated by Mohammad Ali, senior staff correspondent of the Dainik Purbokon, a Chittagong-based newspaper, and Mithun Chowdhury, local correspondent of a national news agency.
Khaleda put the death figure in Sirajganj at 14 that include seven members of the BNP, Chhatra Dal and Jubo Dal.
However, Harunur Rashid Hasan, office secretary of Sirajganj district BNP, said only one Jubo Dal leader was killed during that time.  
She claimed that 13 men of the BNP-led alliance were killed in Chapainawabganj. Of them, seven were BNP activists.
But in reality, it was an Awami League man, Enamul Haq, who was burnt to death by opposition activists during the period. Emran Faruk Masum, editor of the Daily Chapai Dristi, refuted Khaleda's claim, saying except for Enamul, none was killed in the district during that time.
Joypurhat district BNP leaders were unaware that 12 party activists were killed in the one-month period, as claimed by Khaleda.
Mozahar Ali Prodhan, president of Joypurhat district BNP, said 12 people were killed in police firing over the last one year.
The death figure mentioned by Mozahar was corroborated by the superintendent of police in Joypurhat, Hamidul Alam.
When his attention was drawn to Khaleda's claim, Mozahar refrained from making any comments.
The BNP chief also cited that 11 activists of the BNP-led alliance were killed in Noakhali.
But Harun-ur Rashid, general secretary of Noakhali district BNP, said 11 people were killed in the last three months. He, however, couldn't give any death figure for the said one month.
Other local sources said two opposition men were killed in the one-month period.
JUGGLERY OF FIGURES
The district-wise death figures given by Khaleda appeared more or less authentic only when the period was extended by more than a year from the one month she had specified.
At a press conference on January 22, acting BNP secretary general Mirza Fakhrul Islam Alamgir claimed 294 activists of the BNP-led alliance were killed in three months from November. But he couldn't give details to support his claim.
Party's Joint Secretary General Rizvi Ahmed on February 6 told reporters that his party couldn't prepare a complete list of the alliance leaders and activists killed in recent times, as they didn't have much time to do so because of the government's "relentless repression".
However, The Daily Star would like to note that even 17 deaths in a month are much higher and not acceptable. And the death of around 200 people in political violence in a year is a matter of grave concern. This should be investigated by the government and necessary measures should be taken to bring an end to the culture of political killings.

[Our correspondents in the nine districts contributed to this report] - Daily Star

http://www.thedailystar.net/sorry-khaleda-10642

Read  Bangla version  in 

http://amadershomoy.com/

m¨wi Lv‡j`v, Avcbvi wnmv‡ei mZ¨Zv †g‡jwb:

http://www.amadershomoyn.com/content/2014/02/10/middle0201.htm


Also Read:

মিথ্যাচার এবং গণতন্ত্র এক সঙ্গে চলতে পারে না


প্রকাশ : জনকণ্ঠ, শনিবার, ৮ ফেব্রুয়ারী ২০১৪, ২৬ মাঘ ১৪২

Also Read:





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Re: [mukto-mona] atrocities in PoK



Well, we are not really talking about truth or fact, we are giving our opinions. Mr. Deeldar finds validity in Dr. Das's opinion, and I do not. Here are some of my reasons.
 
The 13 colonies that grew into the USA did not have much similarity with the present Indian sub-continent in terms of demographics or socio-political-economic environments.
 
What Zulfikar Ali Bhutto wanted for the subcontinent does not impress me at all.
 
Have you heard much about SAARC activities lately?
 
Erecting a mosque in every sub-district by the government and thousands of madrasas in the country do not look like the religious djinni is going back into the bottle any time soon.
 
India regaining its former shape in a few decades! I think we need to ask Dr. Avijit Roy to book a place for mukto-mona in the cyberspace of hell, so that I could rub Dr. Kamal Das's nose there in a few decades!!
 
SuBain
 
===========================================
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com" <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 9, 2014 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] atrocities in PoK
 
There might be some truth in Dr. Das's prognosis. If we look at both Pakistan and Bangladesh's political culture and slow progress in wealth building since 1947, we can easily conclude that these two countries are still far away from the democracy and materializing their true potential. There will be a day when Islam itself would not be able provide any comfort to its blind subscribers and they might be totally envious of Indian progress and dynamism? With that they might take an about turn and may get on an Indian train or left behind in the darkness. Many Bangladeshis are already crossing Indian border for a better life. The question would be whether Indians would be ready for that challenge. If religious djinni is put back to the bottle, things may start looking different in the subcontinent? Who knows?-SD   

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss

On Sunday, February 9, 2014 1:22 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Read how thirteen colonies grew into the mammoth called U. S. A., and you would have a clue to what I mean.  Given that Hindu fanatics are no less dangerous than Muslim fanatics, a nation is not built of religious fanatics.  All it needs is a contiguous land and common business interest, with the growth of China as a world power, India is bound to regain its former shape even if it takes a few decades.  Probably you are not aware of the possibility of SARC nations being mould into a Federal state.  In such a state, Z. A. Bhutto wanted to be foreign minister about four decades ago, while Bhasani opposed it due to his pro-Chinese politics.
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 9, 2014, at 7:53 PM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
I find most of Dr. Das's points quite flawed.
 
Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan was a sensible man, and he wanted NWFP to be a part of the secular India, as opposed to the Islamic fanatic Pakistan. If his wish came to fruition in 1947, his people most likely would have been more civilized now, than what they are in reality now. However, looking at the reality on the ground, there is no reason to believe that the population of that land wants to be a part of India now.
 
I believe Islam would keep the Pakistani provinces together for a long time. Even as I agree that Pakistan is destined to fragment, I believe that it would take a very very long time; just guess how long it would take to wash off the religious fanaticism from the heads of the people there. There is no shortage of Islamic fanatics in any part of Pakistan now. I am convinced that if East Bengal were a contiguous state to what is Pakistan now, there would be no Bangladesh today. East Bengal had enough collaborators in 1971 to keep the province with Pakistan, if the Pakistani military had convenient arms supply for them and for themselves.
 
I do not believe India's leadership would be stupid enough to 'swallow fragmented parts' of what is Pakistan today. There is no vacant land to swallow; they would have to take in a lot of religious fanatics. No smart leadership would do that. And India has enough human right activists to stop anything like a mass expulsion of any kind of people from their homes, even if a crazy leadership (which is unlikely anyway) ever wanted to do that.
 
SuBain
 
=================================================
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2014 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] atrocities in PoK
 
All the rivers in Pakistan originate in Kashmir. Besides, Peswar led by Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan wanted to join India and Baluchistan wanted to remain Independent.  Islam can not glue together the provinces of Pakistan, even Jiye Sind movement is not dead yet.  Pakistan is destined to be fragmented, India has high hope to swallow fragmented parts of the strange land created by the British rulers in 1947.  
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 8, 2014, at 8:55 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
"the least important of which is religion" - I am also ignorant.
 
Could you educate us with some details, Dr. Das? Thank you in anticipation.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
==============================
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 7, 2014 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] atrocities in PoK
 
Apparently, Mr. Chakrabarty is ignorant of the reasons of dispute on Kashmir between India and Pakistan, the least important of which is religion.
Sent from my iPad
 
==========================================
On Feb 7, 2014, at 9:40 AM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Dear moderators
The following message has not yet been published. Is there any reason for not publishing it? Please make me aware of your policy. 
I really want to share my views with the most active members of the group. It can be an interesting debate. 
Thanks. 
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 5, 2014, at 7:55 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have an "impossible" proposition. It is impossible in the sense that neither India nor Pakistan will agree to it one of the reasons being that the the trust level between these two neighbors is minimal. Any way, my proposition is that India and Pakistan agree to a time frame to create an independent Kashmir. 
The other reasons that make the proposition are
1. Pakistan will not want to lose Azad Kashmir although India is kind of tired of spending money and other resources to keep J&K with her. 
2. Kashmir part of J&K may want to be free but Jammu may not. 
3. India may want to have Kashmir and Jammu as two separate independent states as an alternative political solution. 
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 3, 2014, at 8:52 PM, "Sankar Kumar Ray" <sankarray62@rediffmail.com> wrote:
 
Civil rights activists are legitimately opposed to unbridled atrocities by the Indian military and para-militarily forces in Kashmir ( India-occupied Kashmir, according to the Pakistanis) but mysteriously silent about atrocities in Azad Kashmir (we call it Pakistan-occupied  Kashmir). But the Friday Times of Lahore had the conscience unlike organisations such as APDR, PUCL and  PUDR, not to speak of Dodhichi 

For Ikram – Life in Pakistan occupied Kashmir – Azad Kashmir

From The Friday Times, Pakistan's First Independent Weekly Newspaper  -  17 Jan 13 (http://my.telegraph.co.uk/markulyseas/markulyseas/4145/for-ikram-life-in-pakistan-occupied-kashmir-azad-kashmir/)
The "Azad" in AJK smacks of oxymoronic rhetoric. Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK) is neither a free territory, nor a province of Pakistan. Muzaffarabad has always been under the control of Islamabad and the curtailment of the freedom of expression is constitutionally protected. Without meaning to refer to the new name just bestowed on an old province, let me ask, what's in a name?
Here is what.
There are a number of reports that describe the human rights violations in Indian Occupied Kashmir but it is hard to come by reports of violations on Pakistan's side. The Pakistani government often pretends that the only problems faced by Kashmiris are in India. The official position that there are no human rights violations in AJK is a naïve and disingenuous position that needs to be challenged. According to the Freedom House World Freedom Reports, in 2008 Pakistan-administered Kashmir was given the status "Not Free". This index awards a score of 1 to a "free country" based on ratings of political rights and civil liberties. These ratings are averaged, ranging from 1 to 7, i.e. countries or disputed territories with scores from 1 to 2.5 are considered Free, 3 to 5 are Partly Free, and 5.5 to 7 are Not Free. In 2008, this index gave AJK a Political Rights Score of 7 and a Civil Liberties score of 5. The scores for AJK have improved to a 6 and a 5 respectively in 2010. In comparison, Indian Occupied Kashmir has better scores of 5 for political rights and a 4 for civil liberties, and a status of 'partly free', which ironically is exactly equivalent to Pakistan's national score and status!
According to Brad Adams, Asia Director at Human Rights Watch , the "Pakistani authorities govern Azad Kashmir with strict controls on basic freedoms… The military shows no tolerance


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[mukto-mona] Fw: book Review of : 26/11 Probe: Why Judiciary also failed by S.M.Mushrif





On Monday, 10 February 2014 9:52 AM, ram puniyani <ram.puniyani@gmail.com> wrote:


http://www.tehelka.com/mumbais-black-book/

Mumbai's Black Book

A hard-hitting narrative questions the State's version of the 26/11 attacks, says Ram Puniyani
When Mumbai burnt The Taj Hotel on fire during the 26/11 attacks
When Mumbai burnt The Taj Hotel on fire during the 26/11 attacks. Photo: Shailendra Pandey
Mumbai has been a victim of terrorist attacks a number of times, especially in the aftermath of the ghastly post-Babri demolition violence. The most horrific terrorist attack that shook Mumbai, however, was undoubtedly the terrorist siege on 26 November 2008 in which 126 people died and 327 people got injured.
The attack was deadly and apart from other victims, Hindus and Muslims both, it took away the life of one particular police officer Hemant Karkare — the Maharashtra ATS chief, who was investigating the acts of terror in which the involvement of Hindutva groups was also coming to the surface steadily. The police version of the incident had lots of holes. The then minority affairs minister AR Antulay and many others started having serious doubts about the sequence of events presented by the police. Later, two more glaring things happened: the bulletproof jacket of Karkare went missing, and his postmortem report was not made public. An intense hue and cry was orchestrated to hang the lone terrorist survivor, Ajmal Kasab. He had the key to unravelling some of these vital queries and there were elements who wanted him hanged without a trial.
It is in this backdrop that SM Mushrif does a commendable job of collating all the available evidence and coming out with a revelatory book, Who Killed Karkare: The Real Face of Terrorism in India. In summary, Mushrif challenges the theory put forward by police and argues that apart from eight terrorists who landed from Pakistan, there were two more who were from the Hindutva groups, who had, in collaboration with the Intelligence Bureau (IB), taken advantage of the knowledge that Pakistani terrorists were coming to Mumbai. But instead of alerting the Navy and other authorities concerned, who could have averted the attack, the IB played a different game. Hindutva groups swung into action and planned to eliminate Karkare. When he was doing his job meticulously, the Hindutva political group Shiv Sena's mouthpieceSaamna wrote in the editorial that they'd spit on the face of Karkare. The present prime ministerial candidate from BJP, Narendra Modi, called Karkare anti-national.
Mushrif pieces together all the evidences and demolishes the theory presented by the police, and proves that "the CST-Cama Hospital-Rangbhavan lane operation was planned, scripted, directed, choreographed and executed jointly by Brahminists involved in a nationwide terror plot, as disclosed in the Malegaon blast investigation".
26/11 probe: Why Judiciary also failed SM Mushrif Pharos 218 pp; Rs 275
26/11 probe: Why Judiciary also Failed
SM Mushrif Pharos 218 pp; Rs 275
This book challenges the State version upfront. While several editions of the book came out, along with its multiple translations, the IB accused of masterminding the plot kept quiet about the whole thing. No challenging of the theory of the book, no banning of the book! The plan might have been to kill the book's theory by ignoring it. A phobia was created not to talk about the theory put forward in the book. The IB seemed to have made this phobia percolate to the judiciary, with the result that the courts ignored many crucial arguments raised in the book. Still, though the case ended with the conviction of Ajmal Kasab, a careful scrutiny of the 1,588-page judgment revealed that many findings of the judgment vindicated Mushrif's theory. Radhakant Yadav, a 77-year-old veteran socialist leader of Bihar and three-time member of the Bihar Assembly, picked up the threads of the arguments of Mushrif's book and the positive findings of the judgment; and then went on to file a criminal writ petition in the Bombay High Court. Important points of the petition are reproduced verbatim in the book under review.
The intervention of the Court is a major hope in the case, but the State and the authorities concerned are not responding in an adequate manner. The Ram Pradhan Committee report, which went into the role of the police and other authorities concerned in the terror attacks, is being kept under wraps. The DVD enclosed in the book also has valuable footage drawn from TV channels and other sources. One major point shown by the footage is about how Karkare, the prime target of the 'native conspirators', was trapped.
Surely, Mushrif's first book and this brilliant sequel, are crying out for answers. Populist notions about terrorism have influenced our investigations too far. If truth is to be unravelled, an honest examination of the arguments of this book is highly imperative. It is a powerful indictment of the IB and the Hindutva groups, and should compell the authorities to give an honest answer.




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Re: [mukto-mona] atrocities in PoK



I would not give any value to any word or idea of people like Zulfikar Ali Bhutto.
 
===============================
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 9, 2014 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] atrocities in PoK
 
Intersecting. One pro-Chinese student leader (as far as I remember it was Jamal Haider) wrote an article in the weekly Bichitra on a river cruise that Bhutto had with some prominent student leaders. On Kashmir issue Bhutto opined that Kashmir issue could be solved only under a united socialist India. Was that a political stunt or he sincerely believed it? 
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 9, 2014, at 12:22 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Read how thirteen colonies grew into the mammoth called U. S. A., and you would have a clue to what I mean.  Given that Hindu fanatics are no less dangerous than Muslim fanatics, a nation is not built of religious fanatics.  All it needs is a contiguous land and common business interest, with the growth of China as a world power, India is bound to regain its former shape even if it takes a few decades.  Probably you are not aware of the possibility of SARC nations being mould into a Federal state.  In such a state, Z. A. Bhutto wanted to be foreign minister about four decades ago, while Bhasani opposed it due to his pro-Chinese politics.
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 9, 2014, at 7:53 PM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
I find most of Dr. Das's points quite flawed.
 
Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan was a sensible man, and he wanted NWFP to be a part of the secular India, as opposed to the Islamic fanatic Pakistan. If his wish came to fruition in 1947, his people most likely would have been more civilized now, than what they are in reality now. However, looking at the reality on the ground, there is no reason to believe that the population of that land wants to be a part of India now.
 
I believe Islam would keep the Pakistani provinces together for a long time. Even as I agree that Pakistan is destined to fragment, I believe that it would take a very very long time; just guess how long it would take to wash off the religious fanaticism from the heads of the people there. There is no shortage of Islamic fanatics in any part of Pakistan now. I am convinced that if East Bengal were a contiguous state to what is Pakistan now, there would be no Bangladesh today. East Bengal had enough collaborators in 1971 to keep the province with Pakistan, if the Pakistani military had convenient arms supply for them and for themselves.
 
I do not believe India's leadership would be stupid enough to 'swallow fragmented parts' of what is Pakistan today. There is no vacant land to swallow; they would have to take in a lot of religious fanatics. No smart leadership would do that. And India has enough human right activists to stop anything like a mass expulsion of any kind of people from their homes, even if a crazy leadership (which is unlikely anyway) ever wanted to do that.
 
SuBain
 
=================================================
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2014 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] atrocities in PoK
 
All the rivers in Pakistan originate in Kashmir. Besides, Peswar led by Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan wanted to join India and Baluchistan wanted to remain Independent.  Islam can not glue together the provinces of Pakistan, even Jiye Sind movement is not dead yet.  Pakistan is destined to be fragmented, India has high hope to swallow fragmented parts of the strange land created by the British rulers in 1947.  
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 8, 2014, at 8:55 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
"the least important of which is religion" - I am also ignorant.
 
Could you educate us with some details, Dr. Das? Thank you in anticipation.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
==============================
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 7, 2014 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] atrocities in PoK
 
Apparently, Mr. Chakrabarty is ignorant of the reasons of dispute on Kashmir between India and Pakistan, the least important of which is religion.
Sent from my iPad
 
==========================================
On Feb 7, 2014, at 9:40 AM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Dear moderators
The following message has not yet been published. Is there any reason for not publishing it? Please make me aware of your policy. 
I really want to share my views with the most active members of the group. It can be an interesting debate. 
Thanks. 
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 5, 2014, at 7:55 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have an "impossible" proposition. It is impossible in the sense that neither India nor Pakistan will agree to it one of the reasons being that the the trust level between these two neighbors is minimal. Any way, my proposition is that India and Pakistan agree to a time frame to create an independent Kashmir. 
The other reasons that make the proposition are
1. Pakistan will not want to lose Azad Kashmir although India is kind of tired of spending money and other resources to keep J&K with her. 
2. Kashmir part of J&K may want to be free but Jammu may not. 
3. India may want to have Kashmir and Jammu as two separate independent states as an alternative political solution. 
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 3, 2014, at 8:52 PM, "Sankar Kumar Ray" <sankarray62@rediffmail.com> wrote:
 
Civil rights activists are legitimately opposed to unbridled atrocities by the Indian military and para-militarily forces in Kashmir ( India-occupied Kashmir, according to the Pakistanis) but mysteriously silent about atrocities in Azad Kashmir (we call it Pakistan-occupied  Kashmir). But the Friday Times of Lahore had the conscience unlike organisations such as APDR, PUCL and  PUDR, not to speak of Dodhichi 

For Ikram – Life in Pakistan occupied Kashmir – Azad Kashmir

From The Friday Times, Pakistan's First Independent Weekly Newspaper  -  17 Jan 13 (http://my.telegraph.co.uk/markulyseas/markulyseas/4145/for-ikram-life-in-pakistan-occupied-kashmir-azad-kashmir/)
The "Azad" in AJK smacks of oxymoronic rhetoric. Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK) is neither a free territory, nor a province of Pakistan. Muzaffarabad has always been under the control of Islamabad and the curtailment of the freedom of expression is constitutionally protected. Without meaning to refer to the new name just bestowed on an old province, let me ask, what's in a name?
Here is what.
There are a number of reports that describe the human rights violations in Indian Occupied Kashmir but it is hard to come by reports of violations on Pakistan's side. The Pakistani government often pretends that the only problems faced by Kashmiris are in India. The official position that there are no human rights violations in AJK is a naïve and disingenuous position that needs to be challenged. According to the Freedom House World Freedom Reports, in 2008 Pakistan-administered Kashmir was given t


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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] atrocities in PoK



There might be some truth in Dr. Das's prognosis. If we look at both Pakistan and Bangladesh's political culture and slow progress in wealth building since 1947, we can easily conclude that these two countries are still far away from the democracy and materializing their true potential. There will be a day when Islam itself would not be able provide any comfort to its blind subscribers and they might be totally envious of Indian progress and dynamism? With that they might take an about turn and may get on an Indian train or left behind in the darkness. Many Bangladeshis are already crossing Indian border for a better life. The question would be whether Indians would be ready for that challenge. If religious djinni is put back to the bottle, things may start looking different in the subcontinent? Who knows?
-SD
   

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



On Sunday, February 9, 2014 1:22 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Read how thirteen colonies grew into the mammoth called U. S. A., and you would have a clue to what I mean.  Given that Hindu fanatics are no less dangerous than Muslim fanatics, a nation is not built of religious fanatics.  All it needs is a contiguous land and common business interest, with the growth of China as a world power, India is bound to regain its former shape even if it takes a few decades.  Probably you are not aware of the possibility of SARC nations being mould into a Federal state.  In such a state, Z. A. Bhutto wanted to be foreign minister about four decades ago, while Bhasani opposed it due to his pro-Chinese politics.

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On Feb 9, 2014, at 7:53 PM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

 
I find most of Dr. Das's points quite flawed.
 
Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan was a sensible man, and he wanted NWFP to be a part of the secular India, as opposed to the Islamic fanatic Pakistan. If his wish came to fruition in 1947, his people most likely would have been more civilized now, than what they are in reality now. However, looking at the reality on the ground, there is no reason to believe that the population of that land wants to be a part of India now.
 
I believe Islam would keep the Pakistani provinces together for a long time. Even as I agree that Pakistan is destined to fragment, I believe that it would take a very very long time; just guess how long it would take to wash off the religious fanaticism from the heads of the people there. There is no shortage of Islamic fanatics in any part of Pakistan now. I am convinced that if East Bengal were a contiguous state to what is Pakistan now, there would be no Bangladesh today. East Bengal had enough collaborators in 1971 to keep the province with Pakistan, if the Pakistani military had convenient arms supply for them and for themselves.
 
I do not believe India's leadership would be stupid enough to 'swallow fragmented parts' of what is Pakistan today. There is no vacant land to swallow; they would have to take in a lot of religious fanatics. No smart leadership would do that. And India has enough human right activists to stop anything like a mass expulsion of any kind of people from their homes, even if a crazy leadership (which is unlikely anyway) ever wanted to do that.
 
SuBain
 
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From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2014 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] atrocities in PoK
 
All the rivers in Pakistan originate in Kashmir. Besides, Peswar led by Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan wanted to join India and Baluchistan wanted to remain Independent.  Islam can not glue together the provinces of Pakistan, even Jiye Sind movement is not dead yet.  Pakistan is destined to be fragmented, India has high hope to swallow fragmented parts of the strange land created by the British rulers in 1947.  
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On Feb 8, 2014, at 8:55 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
"the least important of which is religion" - I am also ignorant.
 
Could you educate us with some details, Dr. Das? Thank you in anticipation.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
==============================
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 7, 2014 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] atrocities in PoK
 
Apparently, Mr. Chakrabarty is ignorant of the reasons of dispute on Kashmir between India and Pakistan, the least important of which is religion.
Sent from my iPad
 
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On Feb 7, 2014, at 9:40 AM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Dear moderators
The following message has not yet been published. Is there any reason for not publishing it? Please make me aware of your policy. 
I really want to share my views with the most active members of the group. It can be an interesting debate. 
Thanks. 
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 5, 2014, at 7:55 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have an "impossible" proposition. It is impossible in the sense that neither India nor Pakistan will agree to it one of the reasons being that the the trust level between these two neighbors is minimal. Any way, my proposition is that India and Pakistan agree to a time frame to create an independent Kashmir. 
The other reasons that make the proposition are
1. Pakistan will not want to lose Azad Kashmir although India is kind of tired of spending money and other resources to keep J&K with her. 
2. Kashmir part of J&K may want to be free but Jammu may not. 
3. India may want to have Kashmir and Jammu as two separate independent states as an alternative political solution. 
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 3, 2014, at 8:52 PM, "Sankar Kumar Ray" <sankarray62@rediffmail.com> wrote:
 
Civil rights activists are legitimately opposed to unbridled atrocities by the Indian military and para-militarily forces in Kashmir ( India-occupied Kashmir, according to the Pakistanis) but mysteriously silent about atrocities in Azad Kashmir (we call it Pakistan-occupied  Kashmir). But the Friday Times of Lahore had the conscience unlike organisations such as APDR, PUCL and  PUDR, not to speak of Dodhichi 

For Ikram – Life in Pakistan occupied Kashmir – Azad Kashmir

From The Friday Times, Pakistan's First Independent Weekly Newspaper  -  17 Jan 13 (http://my.telegraph.co.uk/markulyseas/markulyseas/4145/for-ikram-life-in-pakistan-occupied-kashmir-azad-kashmir/)
The "Azad" in AJK smacks of oxymoronic rhetoric. Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK) is neither a free territory, nor a province of Pakistan. Muzaffarabad has always been under the control of Islamabad and the curtailment of the freedom of expression is constitutionally protected. Without meaning to refer to the new name just bestowed on an old province, let me ask, what's in a name?
Here is what.
There are a number of reports that describe the human rights violations in Indian Occupied Kashmir but it is hard to come by reports of violations on Pakistan's side. The Pakistani government often pretends that the only problems faced by Kashmiris are in India. The official position that there are no human rights violations in AJK is a naïve and disingenuous position that needs to be challenged. According to the Freedom House World Freedom Reports, in 2008 Pakistan-administered Kashmir was given the status "Not Free". This index awards a score of 1 to a "free country" based on ratings of political rights and civil liberties. These ratings are averaged, ranging from 1 to 7, i.e. countries or disputed territories with scores from 1 to 2.5 are considered Free, 3 to 5 are Partly Free, and 5.5 to 7 are Not Free. In 2008, this index gave AJK a Political Rights Score of 7 and a Civil Liberties score of 5. The scores for AJK have improved to a 6 and a 5 respectively in 2010. In comparison, Indian Occupied Kashmir has better scores of 5 for political rights and a 4 for civil liberties, and a status of 'partly free', which ironically is exactly equivalent to Pakistan's national score and status!
According to Brad Adams, Asia Director at Human Rights Watch , the "Pakistani authorities govern Azad Kashmir with strict controls on basic freedoms… The military shows no tolerance




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