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Tuesday, June 25, 2013

Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth



There is no religion as such known as Hinduism.  The Persians called the brown skins Hindus. Buddhism was made important by the Saint Upagupta and his disciple Emperor Asoka the Great.  King Bimbisara was a disciple of Buddha.  He was dethroned by his son Ajathasathru.  Ajathasathru was less successful in eliminating Buddhism than Pushyamithra Sunga, a General in the army of Maurya Dynasty.  However, from the time of Buddha to the end of Maura Dynasty, the chief deity among the Hindus was Lord Shiva.  Even Buddha had been portrayed as Budo-Shiva.  I had been to the place where Kalinga war happened and Ashoka was anointed to Buddhism.  The Japanese Govt. had constructed a temple there to commemorate the conversion.  The temple has Shiva Lingam and a Bull among the icons which are clearly belong to Shiva.  The conversion of the Buddhists occurred mostly about a thousand years afterwards.  Some violence might have occurred during the rule of Ajathasathru or Pushyamithra Sunga, nothing compared to the Mohammedan atrocities.  I hope that Stupid Rahman would be able to appreciate the difference.  The Buddhists in India not only did not fight against the Muslim invaders, in many instances they acted as fifth columnists.


On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

There was a time when Indian Hindus let Buddhism to flourish in India. But the philosophical debate continued to show that these two religions are not qualitatively that different from each other. And that is why a Hindu would not have any problem accepting a Buddhist in his/her family and a Buddhist family would not mind to do the same. I am afraid, this can't be said about Muslims.

So, Buddhists being vanished is rather a myth that has been created by a vested group to cover up their own atrocities on many indigenous Indian people. Reference of Sikh massacre is readily available if Mr. Rahman wants to review that. Just ask me, I can add more. There was no doubt that there was a Hindu revival to fight back the foreign invaders when Buddhists were totally reluctant to fight due to their non violence principle. With more people becoming Buddhists and their total non-violence attitude towards invaders and plunderers would have made India virtually an inviting country to invade and enslave. Not that it did not happen later. Buddhists just did not want to fight the invaders from the west and they sought safe haven in the east. Who can blame them? But eventually, they figured out that they could not just chant, they had to fight back to survive. Thank God, they saw the fighting light of Buddha!


The two bottom paragraphs by Jain tell it all. However, the Buddhist passivity is not discussed at all. A critical factor why Buddhists got reabsorbed in Hinduism again.
-SD

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/pankaj-jain-phd/buddhism-origin-spread-decline_b_939679.html

Buddhism: Origin, Spread and Decline

Pankaj Jain, Ph.D.
  • "Inclusivist nature of Hinduism
    In the course of 1700 years of co-existence the Hindus had taken over a great deal from the Buddhists and vice versa, e.g., Buddhists started building temples of the Buddha and Bodhisattva. They started worshipping the Buddha as the ultimate creator and preserver of the universe. Carl Jung mentions in "The Tibetan Book of the Great Liberation" that in Buddhism, the different gods are symbolic representations. This may be an influence of Hinduism on Buddhism. In consequence, the division between Buddhism and Hinduism had increasingly diminished and it was no surprise for a Buddhist to be absorbed into the largely Buddhified Hindu fold. The philosophy of Nagarjuna had been absorbed into the Vedanta by Gaudapada, Sankara's teacher; just as the Vaishnavas of later times were greatly indebted to the Buddhists (Bhagavat Purana incorporated the Buddha as the ninth Avatar of Vishnu). The Buddhists Tantras had provoked their Hindu counterparts, which abound with references to Mahayana deities. Eventually, separate existence of Buddhism did not serve any useful purpose. Its disappearance thus was no loss to anyone.
  • Islamic invasions
    By the time of the Muslim conquest, the separate identity of Buddhism resided primarily in its great monasteries and universities. The distinctively dressed monks, all concentrated at these places were an easily identifiable target for Muslim zealotry. Hinduism, by contrast, had no identifiable heart at which to strike. It had succeeded in pervading Indian society while Buddhism had become increasingly isolated in monasteries and universities. Buddhist monks offered no resistance to the invasions, partly in obedience to their vows, and partly because they believed that astrological calculations have shown that Muslims would in any case conquer Hindustan. The destruction of Nalanda in 1197 AD and of Vikramashila in 1203 AD by Muhammad Ghori marks the end of Buddhism in India."

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 7:39 AM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
you had no idea how data was compiled.

>>>>>>>>> I have shared the sources of that survey with the whole forum. Even that data was audited and problems were fixed BEFORE it was published by people who are experts in preparing such data. I do not know why do you keep asking the SAME question over and over?

You brought it for the forum, it is your burden to prove your position. I only question the validity of your point.

>>>>>>>>> No you got mad at me for sharing a survey about India. guess you are very protective of India!!

Anyway, I'll share some information about Hindu persecution of Buddhist population in India. All of us know that, Buddhism was introduced in India but it vanished from India later on. However we can see even today Buddhism bloomed very well outside of India. Here are some info...


.....Historian S. R. Goyal has attributed the decline and disappearance of Buddhism from India to the hostility of the Brahmanas. An incident oft cited is the destruction of the Bo Tree and Buddhist images by Saivite King, Shashanka, persecution by Pusyamitra Sunga (185 BC to 151 BC) who detested the Law of the Buddha had set fire to the Sutras, destroyed Stupas, razed Samgharamas and massacred Bhikkus and even killed the deity of the Bodhi tree. There is also mention of the Huna onslaught on Taxila (in Pakistan), the persecution of Buddhist monks by Mihirkula.
Incidentally, though Moghuls are accused of destroying Hindu temples, most of these temples were actually built on Buddhist shrine sites. Results of Moghul invasions were many too - Somapura Mahavihara (now in Bangladesh) was set ablaze. Odantapuri Mahavihara close to Nalanda was razed to the ground in 1199 CE after killing all the monks and Bodhgaya was attacked as well. Though there is evidence that even a century beyond the Muslim conquest Buddhism remained in places like Gaya till the end of the 14th century which disproves the notion that Muslim conquest was not singularly responsible for the decline of Buddhism in India.

[ Source:  Why Buddhism prospered in Asia but died in India ]


How the Buddhists and Jains were Persecuted in Ancient India.



CONTRIBUTING FACTORS FOR THE DISAPPEARANCE OF BUDDHISM FROM INDIA




If you need more information about this topic, just ask. I'll add tons more on it.



Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2013 1:09 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
The way you discuss and present facts, anybody can guess the quality of such discussions that you had have in the past. You bring the same issue again from no where and yet, you can't produce a single historical reference. You brought it for the forum, it is your burden to prove your position. I only question the validity of your point. Last time, you talked about the most racist people in the world and you had no idea how data was compiled. You have no clue about their methodology and yet you take that as truth. Do you understand what I mean??  If you feel inadequate about these issues, do not get involved! Chant few verses and be happy!
-SD

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
Member SD,

As I said, we have discussed this subject in detail, just search and find it within Mukto-mona forum.

However if you are firm in denying that, Buddhists were not persecuted by Hindu? Let me know.

I am saying they were severely persecuted by Hindus (Sanatana Dharma). 


Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 7:42 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
It was an error that I corrected almost immediately with an additional post. You have finally proven yourself as a certified idiot!
So, where is reference? Produce it for the forum or confess that you do not have it!
-SD
 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
I do not think I need to answer this one

>>>>>>>> of course. That is the reason you wrote they were west bound!

Makes perfect sense.

They were persecuted by Hindus of India and were force to leave the country they used to rule. That is history. No argument needed.

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jun 19, 2013 12:02 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
I do not think I need to answer this one. It was obvious which direction they moved. And, that does not ring any bell to you?
It is you who started the Budhist persecution with the full knowledge that real culprits are well documented in my reference. Why can't you use frontal part of your brain? Bring your reference to make yourself credible! Can you? would you?
-SD
 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: QR <qrahman@aim.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 

Why not produce some intelligent references how Budhists were persecuted in India and how come they did migrate towards the West for sanctuary?

>>>>>>>>> BTW, the Buddhists went east. Not west. They went all over the orient.

This topic has been discussed with a load of references. Please move your rear end and find out from previous mukto-mona discussions. You will find a lot of interesting discussions as well.


Shalom!



-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 18, 2013 8:40 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
Why not produce some intelligent references how Budhists were persecuted in India and how come they did migrate towards the West for sanctuary? My fundamental problem is with your not providing references and facts that we need for an objective discussion. Do you understand?
-SD

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
Pot calling kettle black? The more BS from from QR with no historical reference or logic. It is rather the Muslim conquest of Indian subcontinent that put a death nail to the existence of  indigenous Hindus and Budhists. The choice was either to convert or die from the dagger.  No wonder why Dalailama feels safer in India than in Mecca. No wonder why these indigenous Indian people people did not  migrate towards the Mecca.

>>>>>>>> Why Mecca?

Maybe you were not here. We have discussed this episode in great detail here.

Dalailama is from Tibet and he took shelter in India because of his problem with Chinese communists. India still have many issues with China and gave refuge to the Dalai Lama. Not sure why the Lama will need to go to Mecca?  :-)

The problem with these organized religions is that they would love to invade other countries, concur them and establish their religious hegemony with virtually no respect to  the culture and religions of indigenous people

>>>>>>>> The fundamental problem is you do not what you are talking about. India was NEVER a single country UNTIL the Muslims reached India. The greater India concept was introduced by Muslim rulers and even the name "Hindustan" was given by Muslims!!

Hindus and Budhists were lucky that English came at the right time and put a stop of that organized religious crime.

>>>>>>>> You are propagating myth that is popular among ignorant Muslims and Hindus.

Fact is even 100 years after the Palashi war, leaders of all religious communities came to Bahadur Shah Zafar to lead them to freedom against the colonial masters. Unfortunately Bahadur Shah was a moghul but did not have leadership skills necessary (he was a good poet but not a great leader) to do that. He unsuccessfully tried and defeated by the Brits.

With no English intervention, India would have become a totally different country.

>>>>>> Agree.

Muslim majority countries and minorities living in them peacefully have become the butt of the jokes. Just ask any random person!  Even Muslims fleeing from those countries, let alone non-Muslim minorities

>>>>>>>> Again I agree with you. Most Muslim majority countries have an issue with good governance. So both Muslims and non-Muslims suffer for lack of it.

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:36 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
Pot calling kettle black? The more BS from from QR with no historical reference or logic. It is rather the Muslim conquest of Indian subcontinent that put a death nail to the existence of  indigenous Hindus and Budhists. The choice was either to convert or die from the dagger.  No wonder why Dalailama feels safer in India than in Mecca. No wonder why these indigenous Indian people people did not  migrate towards the Mecca.
The problem with these organized religions is that they would love to invade other countries, concur them and establish their religious hegemony with virtually no respect to  the culture and religions of indigenous people. Hindus and Budhists were lucky that English came at the right time and put a stop of that organized religious crime. With no English intervention, India would have become a totally different country.

Muslim majority countries and minorities living in them peacefully have become the butt of the jokes. Just ask any random person!  Even Muslims fleeing from those countries, let alone non-Muslim minorities

I bet this man lives in a hole without any light and air. 

Here is the helpful impartial link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Buddhism_in_India

-SD
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss



From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
As I said, ancient India's hatred for non-Hindus is also goes back to ancient times. It has gotten a bit better from the time Buddhists were driven away from the very birthplace of Buddhism (India) but still anti-Muslim (Recently anti-Christian) feeling is pretty strong among middle and upper class Indians.

The Sangh has been steadily doing it since as far back as 1947, when the ICS officer Madhav Godbole seized a trunk full of RSS maps and plans for ethnic cleansing of Muslims.

>>>>>>>>>> because of that environment Bangabandhu chose to work for Muslim League and worked hard to create Pakistan. He was progressive and mostly took positions to reflect aspiration of people. Which lead him to take a different position during 71 and rightfully so.

We hope India will lead the region as a beacon of democracy and motivate other countries to empower democracy in their system and focus on protecting common people from religious Bigots.

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Totonji Al Hajj <ahmadtotonji@yahoo.com>
To: undisclosed recipients: ;
Sent: Sun, Jun 16, 2013 11:07 am
Subject: [mukto-mona] Fwd: IOS Current Affairs: Moment of Truth

 
---------- Forwarded message ----------
 
News Analysis
Moment of Truth
Dr. Mohammad Manzoor Alam asks countrymen and women to give a moment's thought to where the country is headed for as corporate media tomtoms Modi as next Prime Minister.

Narendra Modi of Gujarat 2002 infamy is on a roll. India's corporate media is acting as if the silent majority spread over villages, talukas, mofassils, district towns, state capitals and NCR does not exist, as if it is not the "Little Citizen" who will decide the future of India with his precious vote, but the corporate boss sitting in his air-conditioned cabin and the moneybag manipulating things from behind the screen. People are still important, and urban middle class Modi fans are not the only people India has: Modiwadis are just a small fraction of the sea of humanity called Bharat.

What is bothersome is the inspiration behind Moditva, and the methodologies and modalities it employs. The inspiration, as the RSS stalwart Guru Golwalker clearly explained in his We, or Our Nationhood Defined decades back, is Hitler and his Nazi party. Golwalker approvingly talks about Hitler's genocide of Jews to be replicated in India by a similar mass murder of Muslims. Since then the Sangh and its fronts like BJP, VHP, Bajrang Dal and others have been busy creating new opportunities for mass murder of Muslims through smaller "riots" (like 37 episodes under Akhilesh rule in UP) or bigger pogroms like Ayodhya 92 and Gujarat 2002.

The Sangh has been steadily doing it since as far back as 1947, when the ICS officer Madhav Godbole seized a trunk full of RSS maps and plans for ethnic cleansing of Muslims
. They have not always succeeded in polarising and dividing people because of the primarily secular and plural nature of India. For reaching 102 seats in Parliament from a mere two they staged the mass killing of Muslims in 1992-93. Mr Modi took up the Sangh torch of hatred from LK Advani, who had emerged as a "hero" in their voters' eyes just because of the anti-Muslim hysteria he had created.

Modi was protected from being sacked in 2002 by then Deputy Prime Minister and Home Minister Advani. His sacking would have been justified because of his dereliction of duty (to some, collusion with rioters) in the anti-Muslim pogrom. The Sangh has consistently been undermining the Constitution's secular values. During NDA rule it even tried to change it.

What is happening today is ominously similar to what happened in the Germany of 1933 and the rise of Hitler with the help of German industry. Today, some of India's major industrialists and their corporate media are openly backing Mr Modi as the future prime minster who will increase their profits by demolishing all the democratic and secular institutions of the state of India and by ensuring maximum profit on investments. What happens to people who are not industrialists, the preponderant majority of this country?

Mahabharata, the account of the greatest fratricidal war ever, fascinates both Mr Modi and Mr Advani. A Mahabharata against Muslims of India is the dream of the Sangh stalwarts. The choice between Mr Modi and Mr Advani is that between a rock and a hard place.

By and large, the choice today is between constitutional rule and fascist thuggery; between the common good of the masses, the farmers, the working classes in villages, towns and cities, the peace-loving people of goodwill everywhere on one side and corporate money and Hitler's chelas on the other.

The choice is very clear, very unambiguous. It is a choice between the idea of India and chaos.
 
 















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[mukto-mona] Needs exemplary punishments !!!



শেখ হাসিনা সহ আওয়ামী লীগের প্রথম সারির নেতৃবৃন্দকে হত্যার পরিকল্পনা-- 
তালেবান নেতা মুফতি হান্নানের জবানবন্দিতে জানা যায় 
বর্তমান বিরোধী দলীয় নেত্রী খালেদা পুত্র চরম দুর্নীতিবাজ তারেকের সেই ভয়ংকর ষড়যন্ত্রের পরিকল্পনা !!

দেখুন এবং জানিয়ে দিন সবাইকে, কিভাবে গ্রেনেড হামলা করে 
...See More
শেখ হাসিনা কে হত্যার পরিকল্পনার জবানবন্দিতে মুফতি হান্নান!!Share!
দেখুন এবং জানিয়ে দিন সবাইকে, কিভাবে ততকালীন বিরোধী দলীয় নেত্রীকে হত্যার পরিকল্পনা করেছিলো জামায়াতের সেক্রেটারী জেনারেল আলী আহসান মুহাম্মদ মুজাহিদ এবং তারেক জিয়া.........
Length: 2:44


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[mukto-mona] Power of Indoctrination!



It took more than three and half centuries to get ride of geocentric ideas. We are "similarly" struggling to accept evolution as a scientific fact though every aspect of our life is dependent in the ocean of scientific discoveries. Isn't it amazing! 

How long it takes for us to get ride of "anthropocentric views"? 

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               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: Fwd: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video// Let us look at women in Secular country



Problems with Sharia Law are well known to all Muslims, except some people like Q. Rahman. Islam is hijacked by bunch of ill-educated Mullahs, like those in Pakistan who gave that legendary Sharia verdict.

Jiten Roy




From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video// Let us look at women in Secular country

 
That idiot Rahman forgets conveniently that in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, a woman was raped a few years ago, by the village leaders as a punishment to the 'crime' of her younger brother being friendly to a girl of higher class in the society.


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 12:39 AM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
"We have been discussing pros and cons of Sharia and Islam in Bangladesh."-----QR
Not really. I am absolutely against Sharia Law in Bangladesh. Introduction of Sharia Law in a multi-religious country will be immoral, unethical, undemocratic, and hence unconstitutional. Even if the religious minorities are kept outside of Sharia Law, a vast majority of the Muslims will resist it. As long as you will keep this system as an option, you will simply be acting as a divisive agent.    
 
"Let us take a look at secular democracies and how women are being treated. Here is a story from our neighbor."-----QR
Are you suggesting that West Bengal needs Sharia Law? Are you also suggesting that Taliban Afghanistan witnessed the best implementation of Sharia Law? If you are, I must say that out of frustration of the present law and order situation you are irrationally prescribing extreme solutions.  
 
Can a woman become a Sharia juror?
Still waiting for a response.
 
Is Sharia biased against woman rape victims?
Still waiting for a response.
 
Is Sharia not biased against women in general? What is your comment on "tin talak"?
 
My questions are motivated by my reading of novels and stories, and watching movies and documentaries on the poor and illiterate sections of the Muslim society in Bangladesh. Last time I watched a film in Toronto on Sharia. It was made by Hassan Mahmud and I had an opportunity to meet him there. Are these all myths or facts?
 
How can some thing revealed from God lead to many schools of jurisprudence? How do you know that human intervention has not distorted divine revelations?  
 
 
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 11:03 AM
Subject: Fwd: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video// Let us look at women in Secular country
 

We have been discussing pros and cons of Sharia and Islam in Bangladesh. Let us take a look at secular democracies and how women are being treated. Here is a story from our neighbor.
প্রসঙ্গ নারী-নির্যাতন
অস্বস্তি এড়াতে সমালোচনাই ঢাল মুখ্যমন্ত্রীর
নিজস্ব প্রতিবেদন

Source: http://anandabazar.com/24raj5.html


স্বস্তিটা রয়েই যাচ্ছে।
পার্ক স্ট্রিট, কাটোয়া থেকে কামদুনি, গেদে, কৈজুড়ি একের পর এক নারী নির্যাতনের ঘটনায় তোলপাড় রাজ্য-রাজনীতি। তা সামলাতে কখনও মুখ্যমন্ত্রী বলছেন সরকারের সক্রিয়তার কথা, কখনও সংবাদমাধ্যমের সমালোচনা করছেন, কখনও বিরোধীদের একহাত নিচ্ছেন, কখনও বা বিশিষ্টজনদের সাহায্য চাইছেন।
প্রশ্ন উঠেছে, কিন্তু অস্বস্তিটা কি এড়াতে পারছেন মুখ্যমন্ত্রী?
রবিবার আরও এক বার সেই প্রসঙ্গ উঠে এল উত্তর ২৪ পরগনার মিনাখাঁয় মমতা বন্দ্যোপাধ্যায়ের একটি জনসভার পরে। সেখানে কামদুনি-কাণ্ডের নাম না করে মুখ্যমন্ত্রী বলেন, "বারাসতে একটা ঘটনাকে নিয়ে মাতামাতি শুরু হয়েছে। টাকা নিয়ে স্নো-পাউডার মেখে অনেকে টিভির সামনে বসে এ নিয়ে কুৎসা করে যাচ্ছে। দু'একটা ছোট ঘটনাকেও বড় করে দেখানো হচ্ছে।" অনেকেই বলছেন, অস্বস্তি কাটাতেই সমালোচনাকে ঢাল করছেন মুখ্যমন্ত্রী।
নারী নির্যাতনের ঘটনাকে ছোট বা সাজানো ঘটনা তিনি এর আগেও বলেছেন। পার্ক স্ট্রিট-কাণ্ডের সময়ে মমতা বলেছিলেন, সাজানো ঘটনা। এর পরে কাটোয়ার ছোটরেলে ডাকাতির সময়ে মেয়ের মাথায় বন্দুক ঠেকিয়ে এক বিধবা মহিলাকে ট্রেন থেকে নামিয়ে নিয়ে গিয়ে ধর্ষণের অভিযোগ ওঠে দুষ্কতীদের বিরুদ্ধে। তখন মুখ্যমন্ত্রীর প্রতিক্রিয়া ছিল, "সাজানো ঘটনা। ওই মহিলার স্বামী সিপিএম করেন।" কিন্তু দেখা যায়, ওই মহিলার স্বামী দীর্ঘদিন আগেই মারা গিয়েছেন। এবং তিনি বাম-বিরোধী রাজনীতিই করতেন। 'ন্যাশনাল ক্রাইম রেকর্ডস ব্যুরো'-র সাম্প্রতিক রিপোর্ট অনুযায়ী, পশ্চিমবঙ্গ নারী নির্যাতনে প্রথম। ধর্ষণে সাজা দেওয়ার ক্ষেত্রেও এ রাজ্য ক্রমশ পিছিয়ে পড়ছে। গত বুধবার রাতে স্বরূপনগরের কৈজুড়িতে ধর্ষণে বাধা পেয়ে এক মহিলার যৌনাঙ্গে ভোজালি দিয়ে আঘাত করে দুষ্কৃতী। সেই ঘটনার পরে আতঙ্কে গ্রাম ছাড়তে শুরু করেছেন অনেকে।
এমন পরিস্থিতিতে সরকারের বিরুদ্ধে সরব হন বিরোধীরা। কামদুনি-কাণ্ডের পরে সরকারের সমালোচনায় পথে নামেন বিশিষ্টজনেরা এবং সাধারণ মানুষ। প্রশ্ন ওঠে কামদুনিতে গিয়ে মমতার আচরণ নিয়েও। জবাবে তিনি প্রশাসনের সক্রিয়তার দাবি তুলেছেন প্রতিটি সভায়। এ দিনও মিনাখাঁয় মমতা বলেন, "বামুনগোলায় ধর্ষণের ঘটনায় ২৭ দিনের মধ্যে চার্জশিট দেওয়া হয়েছে। দোষীর যাবজ্জীবন সাজা হয়েছে। বারাসতে ২৪ ঘণ্টার মধ্যে দুষ্কৃতীকে গ্রেফতার করা হয়েছে। এক মাসের মধ্যে চার্জশিট দিয়ে ফাঁসির দাবি করব আমরা।"
মুখ্যমন্ত্রী আরও দাবি করেছেন, রাজ্যের আইনশৃঙ্খলা পরিস্থিতি আগের থেকে ভাল হয়েছে। এ দিন তিনি বলেন, "বারুইপুর, রাজারহাট, কেশপুর, খানাকুল, ধানতলা এ সব জায়গায় যে একের পর এক ধর্ষণ হয়েছে, বিজন সেতুতে আনন্দমার্গীদের পুড়িয়ে মারা হয়েছে, কই তখন তো কাউকে দেখিনি? সিপিএমের সময়ে ধর্ষণের অভিযোগই থানায় করা যেত না। সব মহিলা কি ধর্ষিতা হচ্ছেন, না সব পুরুষ ধর্ষণের সঙ্গে যুক্ত? মিথ্যা, কুৎসা করার চেষ্টা হচ্ছে।" এর পরেই প্রশ্নটা উঠছে, তাঁর এ সব কথা অস্বস্তি ঢাকার ঢাল নয়তো?
And other news.....সত্যি বলছেন না মমতা, দাবি করল সিপিএম
=========================================================================================================================================Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
One of my humblest questions to Mr. Rahman was: Was Sharia code revealed to the prophet the same way as the Koranic verses were revealed to him?
>>>>>>>>>> Fundamentals of Shria are taken from the Qurán. There are verses in the Qurán about consuming halal food and prohibiting stealing etc. Some applications of the Sharia was demonstrated by prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Some application of laws are open for interpretations. Does this law vary from place to place and from time to time? Are there many versions of Sharia Law?  >>>>>>>> Fundamentals of Sharia is the same. However there are some differences in how they are applied. Those who follow imam Abu Hanifa (RA) follow Hanafi interpretations and others follow imam Malik (RA) etc. There are few different versions but fundamentals are the same. Every interpretation has to be true to the commands of the Qurán and authentic examples shown by prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Are beheading, stoning to death, chopping hands, etc. are all authentic and universal Sharia punishments?>>>>>>>>> You can say that. However the due process is important. Which means a court has to be sure of the crime before it is giving verdicts. Does Sharia Law treat differently the crimes of raping a minor girl, a minor boy, an unmarried woman, a married woman, and even raping one's own wife? If it does, how? The stories we hear indicate that Sharia is heavily biased against woman victims---is it true? >>>>>>>>> Law is not biased. However in less developed countries, the application can be less than perfect. Which is the reason I have reservation against applying Sharia in Bangladesh. Our checks and balances are not there. Our due process is corrupt and often laws are used to punish political or social opponent than real criminals. We cannot introduce Sharia in such an environment. We have to have  safeguards in place BEFORE we can even think of implementing Sharia. I do not say such things out of blind faith or blind obedience to any ideology.  Right now we live in a country which is pretty close to be called lawless. Therefore, Sharia certainly offer a great structure that has proven to be effective throughout history when it is applied with sincerity and honesty. Shalom!
-----Original Message-----From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2013 1:14 pmSubject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
 
It is hard to argue with some one with blind faith.
One of my humblest questions to Mr. Rahman was: Was Sharia code revealed to the prophet the same way as the Koranic verses were revealed to him?
Does this law vary from place to place and from time to time? Are there many versions of Sharia Law?  
Are beheading, stoning to death, chopping hands, etc. are all authentic and universal Sharia punishments?
Does Sharia Law treat differently the crimes of raping a minor girl, a minor boy, an unmarried woman, a married woman, and even raping one's own wife? If it does, how? The stories we hear indicate that Sharia is heavily biased against woman victims---is it true? 
Can a woman be included as Sharia juror?
 
I know the questions are not simple. Mr. Rahman, take time.
 
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
 
QR: "Sharia gives us a good solution. It also requires that, we punish people only after we are 100% sure of the crimes."
OK, now you can bag your Sharia Law. If you are 99.9% sure, what will you do in your Sharia System of Justice? For your information, it is humanly impossible, in most cases, to be 100% sure of the committed crimes; that's why modern laws have "beyond the reasonable doubt" clause in them. 

Also, I believe - it is a part of the Sharia Law that a raped victim has to find 4 witnesses to prove her allegation. Can this be ever achieved? So, the poor woman has no chance of winning in the Islamic court ever; rather she will get flogged or stoned for the allegation.  Your logical thoughts are forever fogged by your faith; you need help, my friend. These logic and faith cannot live side by side.

About the other comment about discussing religion in this forum; that's mainly for two reasons - 1) religion is the hottest topic now a days, and 2) there are people, like you, who bring religion in most conversations, mainly for promotional purposes.
Jiten Roy
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
 

Yes, you got it right; Q. Rahman is waiting, like a Hawk, for an opportune moment to implement Sharia Law in Bangladesh,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, if I was, I would said so. Many times I explained this topic. I think highly of Sharia. I also think highly of US constitution and our own. However it is more important HOW these laws are being applied. As I said, Muslims of Bangladesh are NOT serious about it. Most of the people who speak about Sharia says out of emotions. I knew this man who worked at a top multi-national company in Bangladesh. He would come over and just wanted to poke me. So he started speaking highly about Shorbohara party (Communists). I did not say much and said it is fine as long he was convinced about it. He kept talking about it. So one day I told him that, if communism became a reality, this man has to share him house with the care taker of his huge land he had and treat them much better. He also have to submit all of his property (He is a rich man and a powerful man) to the state. Since that day, he NEVER mention his love for communists. Sharia gives us a good solution. It also requires that, we punish people only after we are 100% sure of the crimes. In Bangladesh we have some fundamental issues with our judicial process and we have to fix them first. Regardless we ever implement Sharia in this country. Hopefully all of us can agree that, our judicial process have to improve and it has many structural issues. He also has a version Islamic Rule (Caliphate) suitable for Bangladesh, but, I am sure, he has strong objection for the RamRajjya in India.  >>>>>>>>> I have NEVER said anything about Caliphate here or anywhere. Also the hard cold fact is you should NOT compare Hinduism with Islam. Hinduism does NOT have any set of laws all Hindus agree on. The laws of Manu will be rejected by majority Hindus even before anyone propose it. Since they are contradictory, incomplete and racist in nature. Sharia has some issue with it's application but the laws themselves are very solid and fair to all population. Again, I am not trying to implement Sharia or even said anything in favor or against it. Shalom!
-----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 4:04 pm Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
 
Yes, you got it right; Q. Rahman is waiting, like a Hawk, for an opportune moment to implement Sharia Law in Bangladesh, in which everybody lives happily ever after, including other religious communities. He also has a version Islamic Rule (Caliphate) suitable for Bangladesh, but, I am sure, he has strong objection for the RamRajjya in India.  
Jiten Roy
 
  
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
 
You do not want Sharia law today. So you want it tomorrow! 
Can you tell us why Sharia law is sacred? Was this code revealed from God to the prophet? 
You are talking about high moral values. Who, if there are any at all, in this society have high moral values? When will the society have people of high moral values to lead us with Sharia law? How would you know that the time has come for Sharia law? 
Looks like you have in your vision an Islamic rule in Bangladesh! Correct me if I am wrong. 
Among all the Islamic parties in Bangladesh which one, if there is any, is eventually going to rule Bangladesh using the true Islamic model? 
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 18, 2013, at 11:51 PM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
Almost in every issue you bring Islam. That is fine admittedly annoying and boring though given the topics we discuss here. But you seem to make Islam the complete code of life including political one. Here lies the potential danger
>>>>>>>>> I think you are a little paranoid. Several times I said, albeit I feel Sharia offers good solution, I am NOT for implementing that platform in our country today. Collectively our moral standard is very low and there is a great chance of abuse of these sacred codes (Holy to Muslims). Pakistan period (And current state) is well known for abusing Islam. Unless we have value driven leaders and leaders who are aware of Islamic standards, they cannot be custodians of such laws. In the Qurán, it says even if your enemy stands in front of you, you have to be JUST (Be fair) to that enemy ( Source: Al Qur'an 5:8) Again if you admire the US constitution, you will know it says "All men are created equal...." at start BUT a good part of Americans were not treated equally (By law) for centuries. Until recently (As late as 1962) that civil rights movement attempted to correct previous mistakes. Similarly American women were not allowed to vote until 1920. Therefore, I am absolutely sure  that Sharia offers good solution for humanity BUT I am not for forcing it to anyone. I am for educating people and lawmakers about it. Until people want such changes in laws. Firstly if someone want to reject Sharia, they have to know something about it. In our case most people do not have any idea what it is but they reject it because Fox news told you it is bad!! Before the last election of the president, the chief of Islamic Oikyo Jote (an ally of AL) clearly said that he did not approve nomination of a woman for president. >>>>>>>>>> Kindly do NOT learn about Islam from such spineless people. If you like to know what Islam says, ask a good scholar or imam in your area. There is no harm in learning new things. I enjoyed reading Mahabharata when I was a kid. It did not diminish anything from me. When I learnt few verses of the holy Veda, it only increased my respect for Sanatana Dharma. I invite you do learn about Islam (Since you talk about it all the time). Shalom!
-----Original Message----- From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Jun 18, 2013 7:50 pm Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
 
Let me say a few words on the issue of second class citizenship in a theocratic or semi theocratic state. The humanity had to pay huge price before it realized that "separation of church and the state" should be the basic principle of a modern state. A religious state discriminates against religious minorities and women. Islamic Republic of Pakistan is an example. I still remember from 10th grade Civics that no nonMuslim can become the president of the country. I believe it is still valid. Muslim Brotherhood will not let a woman to become the head of the state. Before the last election of the president, the chief of Islamic Oikyo Jote (an ally of AL) clearly said that he did not approve nomination of a woman for president. 
Almost in every issue you bring Islam. That is fine admittedly annoying and boring though given the topics we discuss here. But you seem to make Islam the complete code of life including political one. Here lies the potential danger. Islam teaches great values no doubt, but don't let it be a tool in the hands of the Islamists. Islam is absolutely in no danger under the original 1972 constitution. Also there is no reason to believe that AL is less religious than it's opponents. 
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 17, 2013, at 6:46 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
brother lately you are being driven more with emotion than logic. Which is unlike your general self.

I have made some suggestions with the best of intention. I intellectually disagree with current course. However I am well aware that, I am not the one who will chart the course to address the issue. It has to be leaders from minority communities with a long term perspective for well being of their community and Bangladesh as well.

The Unity council consistantly tries to project Bangladesh as a heaven for Islamists and I strongly disagree with that narrative. It is counter productive and hurting OUR country. In the long run the Muslims of Bangladesh have to get involved in local levels and that will be the best protection. As history proven that, our politicians are more concern with their election over security of any community. So we the people have to unite for such noble causes. However when Islam is vilified, it is difficult for most Muslims to take part.

We are NOT fanatic but we are religious people. Recent election shown us religion has a role to play in our lives (From all communities) and any attempt to divorce religion from our lives will not be successful.

I only shared my ideas, do not need to get upset over it. Like you I also like see end of any injustice on anyone in our land.


10. Your duty is to protect the minority population by giving them a second class citizen status. Isn't it?

>>>>>>> No. I only want to offer them more secured and peaceful lives.

Shalom!
-----Original Message----- From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 16, 2013 2:16 pm Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
 
1. I am not sure if Guha is linked to the government. Is he really acting as an agent of the government? Even if he is, why are you trying to shut his mouth?
2. By saying the need to protect people of all religious backgrounds, you are resorting to a dangerous generalization. Looks like to you human rights activities specific to children, women, Hindus, etc. are superfluous. This is called intellectual dishonesty.
3. Even living in America (?) you are trying to be over patriotic. Looks like it is OK for you to accept criticism of American policies and actions by Americans, but you are not ready to tolerate Bangladeshi policies and actions to be criticized and protested by Bangladeshis. This is called double standard. With a great passion you listen to the news on the persecution of the Rohingya, but never advised them to go to the Myanmar government for the solution as they must not do any thing that will tarnish the image of the country. This is another example of your double standard.
4. Are you sure that D.C. rallies criticize Islam? As I know they criticize fanatic and Jihadi Islamists.
5. Foreign agencies do not have police. True. But they have money and power. This is not unknown to you. Don't pretend that the third world countries to not yield to foreign influence. Outside pressure works well sometimes. You should be aware of lobbyists being hired by Jamat-BNP group. It should not be unknown to you that some foreign governments and agencies have been trying to intervene in the trial of the collaborators. Have you said any thing against them?  
6. You are pretending that you have enough trust in the Home ministry. Thanks for being a truly a democratic and patriotic citizen.
7. You should be more specific about who are trying to "kick" Islam. 
8. This is a problem with the dishonest intellectuals who believe that people like Dr. Mizanur Rahman have to be ignored as whatever they say is a part of a political game. 
9. I have been noticing that: you have been sharing "authentic" Islamic values. I hope you have been doing this in forums run by fanatic and fundamentalist Islamic groups aslo.
10. Your duty is to protect the minority population by giving them a second class citizen status. Isn't it?
  
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 3:29 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
 
We have our attitude problems also. When Mr. Guha tells us the stories on minority persecution in Bangladesh, we have our cold reaction: Why are you saying this here! Go and tell the government. Pretty nice way to shirk the responsibility!
>>>>>>>>>>>> With all due respect, it became a habit of you to assume the worst in others. Nope, I said it to member Guha because he is well linked with government. Unless there is pressure to protect weak and vulnerable people in our community (Of all religious background), we cannot get there. When they go for rally and demonstration in D.C, we criticize them.





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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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