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Friday, February 10, 2012

[mukto-mona] Chittagong Nondir hat Incidence/Few points to evaluate



Good day.
The recent communal incidences/violences in Hathazari/Nondirhat are of sheer conspiracies from Jamaat-BNP jote with Shibbir/closeby fanatic Madrasas were involved to foil the War Criminal issues along with Minority Persecution during the period while Chittagong University students were on leave in the areas of Hindu dominated place other-wise the event can't underway without being challenged !!!!
Scenarios of Gujrat riots must be remembered and we talked much about MODI issues but in Bangladesh many Modis are actively involved disguisely to make violence with subsequent shifting of War criminal Issues.
FYG:
Whole the belt from North part , Rangamati with Raozan/Hathazari/Fathebad to South, used to have strong Hindu presence, SAKA like communal gongs could not make ZERO Hindu despite of his direct persecution since '71 ...Now the area which is closed to Chittagong city and becoming strategically important under local Geo-Politics for various reasons (Extension of Ctg City,strong hold of Jamaat-Shibbir, close by Ctg Cantonment/University, extension of residences fm heart of Ctg City) is under direct THREAT.
I appealed Government with Secular minded people  to intervene on this soft issues immediately other-wise we may see another GUJRAT. Very small issue turned into severe violence in the area of Hindu areas.
We have talked about Border issue recently..Trust the media should make quick/rush and visit the area.
Identify the criminals and sweep them out immediately, repair all the Mandirs  !!!
This shouldn't be taken lightly..In India we have seen Babri mosque demolition ..not long ago !!!!!
Very interestingly,Thursday minor Issue has broken out after JUMMA Prayer..This is ridiculous !!! 
 
Good luck !!!    
Capt Chowdhury
 


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[ALOCHONA] Anandabazar Patrika on Bangladesh politics, Teesta waters etc



Anandabazar Patrika on Bangladesh politics, Teesta waters etc



http://www.anandabazar.com/11desh1.html
http://www.barta24.net/index.php?view=details&data=Cricket&news_type_id=1&menu_id=64&news_id=30081



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[ALOCHONA] Bangladesh lands under India's possession



Bangladesh lands under India's possession



http://www.dailykalerkantho.com/?view=details&type=gold&data=University&pub_no=789&cat_id=1&menu_id=13&news_type_id=1&index=0



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Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly



 
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
 
We have so many tolerant people in our society does not prove that religious virtue created that condition. If you think so, you are either not thinking critically or you are naïve.
-----I agree with you.
 
If we think deeply at our own lives, most of our good virtues, we have, came from elsewhere (our education, family influences, human instinct, human properties, etc.), not from our religious influences. I believe so, because - most of us spend our lives out of the religious sphere of influence, yet we get all those qualities.
----I agree.
 I also believe that - an atheist possesses much more good qualities than a devout religious man. This is because - the mind of an atheist is free and unperturbed by religious prejudices and influences. Therefore, it will be totally wrong to credit religion for our good qualities.  Let's analyze further.
-----I don't think so. Think about all the atheist communists. Do (did) they really have all good human qualities?
 
If someone is inducted to a brand new religion, for the first time, pretty soon, he/she will start to develop some antagonistic feelings toward others in the competing faiths, which he/she did not have before the induction. This phenomenon is well visible in religious converts; they are not only antagonistic, but also hostile towards others in different faiths. In other words, neo-converts are much more radical than other followers. Why is that?
------Any statistical support? Or has your opinion been influenced by what you learnt in your childhood: a Hindu converted to Isalm consumes proportionately more beef? What do you think about Mohammad Ali, Steve Jobbs, and others. Do they really hate the religions they were born into?
 
Religion is an ideological institution (clan), just like a political institution. The battle is for its space, growth, and dominance.
---That's right. It is true for any movement---for instance, cultural and literary?
 
 Antagonistic messages keep a religion vibrant, without which it may face the existential threat. The tolerance for others in the competing faiths is not a winning strategy for religious hegemony. Is it?
----That is the thinking of the fanatics and fundamentalists. They can befool the followers for some time. "Hegemony" is a word that does not fit well to relion!
 
 I believe, Vivekananda's new religion based on human compassion for all mankind, did not succeed as much for its all encompassing ideology; it's not strong enough message for continued growth and hegemony.
----- Vivekananda is very succesful. He reinterpreted the Upanishads to cover the duty towards the hungry, illiterate, neglected, superstitious, and chained people. If he has failed it is because he has been misunderstood. My opinion is in agreement with what Tapan Roychaudhury believes vide his recent article published in the fortnightly Desh.
 
Successful religions, therefore, teach their followers that - they are the right ones to go to haven; others are straight going to hell. This is the universal message of any religion. This message teaches how to demean and dehumanize the followers of other faiths.
---------But the practiced religion does not take into cognizance many fundamentalist views that a religion offers. Have you ever thought why the head of the government of a Muslim country visits the Durga Mandap to express his solidarity with the Hindus? If you have the fundamentalist view (very much like the fundamentalist view of a Muslim), you cannot explain the phenomenon. Why does a Hindu-majority country make a law discarding Hindu casteism?
 
What I am trying to say here is that - religion, for its survival, will always divide people and induce hatred and hostility within mankind, which would have been otherwise peaceful.
------Buddha, Ramksishna, Lalon do not do it. Why do you pick those who do it? 
 
Jiten Roy
--- On Thu, 2/9/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, February 9, 2012, 11:11 PM

 
Well, when I talk about "How to follow religions correctly", I certainly mean what should be the "practiced versions of religions." To practice religions like civilized human beings who care about harmonious coexistence of all innocent people, followers of most religions have to edit their religions and/or ignore some aspects of their religions to fit their common sense and what Dr. Roy called "human compassion."
 
I am sure Mr. Chakrabarty and I have seen innocent people who actually have very little knowledge of their religions. They realize that their God has also created people who do not have the same thoughts about God. They could see that it would be wrong for them to hate, discriminate against, or commit atrocities against other kinds of people. These people are good primarily because of their good common sense, not because of their religions.
 
I have no argument with Mr. Chakrabarty about good practiced versions of religions. However, "Every religion teaches tolerance about other religions" is a wrong statement if we go by what quite a few of the religions are by their books.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
 
  • Both Jiten Roy and Sukhamaya Bain need to read my message on the "practiced" version of a religion. Peaceful coexistence is not a myth (exampe, Hindus vs Muslims in Bengal). Peace has sometimes been broken by nasty politics. During communal riots the members of the two different religious communities give shelter to one another. We just need to reflect on the past and the present as well. 
  • Religion is not a unique thing. It has infinite versions. There are infinite levels of religious belief. If you want to program your GPS, make sure where you want to go, in other words, which version of religion is your destination.
  • Here you go Mr. Roy: "Whatever tolerance we see is due to societal laws, and out of human compassion." That is what I am talking about: this is the practiced religion. You have mentioned only two determinants. There are many more forces that tend to keep religions universally appealing. That helps build communal harmony. But there is always a risk.

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
 

Religion is like a GPS device, if you follow the turn-by-turn direction of it, you will end up in a predefined culture. This part is well tested and verified. Anything else is just guesswork or pipedream.
 
Religion, being a GPS system that can only take you to a predefined culture, cannot be used as a political system for a multicultural society. If you do, you will enforce a particular culture onto a multicultural society, and the outcome will be chaos and calamity in an otherwise peaceful society.
 
When we talk about religious tolerance, we should also remember that religion is a business also. Do you think any business like competitors? Whatever tolerance we see is due to societal laws, and out of human compassion. In my view, religion is a cultural hegemony, nothing more. As a result, the history of religious coexistence is written in blood.
 
Jiten Roy --- On Wed, 2/8/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 8, 2012, 8:26 PM

 
I would like to comment on the following two comments:
 
S. Chakrabarty: "Every religion teaches tolerance about other religions."
 
J. Roy: "Most people believe in Allah in their own way."
 
S. Bain: Mr. Chakrabarty is very wrong here. I like Dr. Roy's statement. Please see below for some elaborations of these two comments.
 
None of the Abrahamic religions tolerate idolatry, which is a Hindu religious practice. People who identify themselves in terms of an Abrahamic religion, yet tolerate idolatry, do it in spite of their religion, not because of it. For example, many Christian communities in the USA allow Durga Puja in the churches because they have advanced enough to ignore some of the aspects of their religion, not because Christianity is not against idolatry. Enough reading and honest interpretations of the fundamentals of religions would show that many religions consider the following of other religions to be inappropriate, wrong, sinful and even punishable. I am personally reluctant to dig deeper into that. But I am sure Mr. Chakrabarty would find the example of idolatry that I noted here to be a valid one.
 
While almost all Muslims use the Arabic word Allah for the English word God, the word Allah was in use long before Islam came into being. Thus, Muslims really do not have a proprietary right on the word Allah. When a Christian or a Hindu prays to God, he is praying to Allah. In fact the Arab Christians do call God Allah. A Hindu should be able to use the Arabic word Allah as much as he uses the English word God to do his way of praying, including what would be clearly un-Islamic. A Bangalee Muslim should have no problem using the word "Ishwar" instead of the word "Allah." That should not cause anyone to lose his Islam.
 
Well, that's all for now.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
**************************************************
 
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".                -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190
.


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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: Hindu Deities demolished at Serajdi Khan Upazila of Munshigonj district of Bangladesh on 21.01.2012



Of course, nobody supports everything blindly.  But when somebody supports S. A. Hannan's observation that the war prisoners in primitive Islam were released(without ransom), I come to believe that this person might have cataract-ed vision.

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:36 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Why do you think so! I know you will never criticize Gholam Azam even though he is a war criminal. You will not Khaleda Zia either although during her time (2001) there a big time Hindu persecution. I am not that kind of political animal who supports every thing blindly. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 10, 2012, at 4:38 AM, "Mohiuddin Anwar" <mohiuddin@netzero.net> wrote:

Still you won't criticize Hasina regime for failing to protect Hindu Deity's Murthi..
If you can't criticize it,  others will.
 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: Hindu Deities demolished at Serajdi Khan Upazila  of Munshigonj district of Bangladesh on 21.01.2012
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 20:13:03 -0800 (PST)

 

  • I will not be surprised if people belonging to AL are doing it. As a matter of fact, according to Dr. Barkat's research, AL and BNP almost equally share abandoned property of the Hindus.
  • As a political party AL is much more progressive than BNP. (Please let me know if you have any points against what I am saying.) That makes me guess that it is being done by BNP-Jamaat alliance or a small but rising Islamic fanatic organization.
  • Advocate Ghosh may want to tell us more about it.

From: Mohiuddin Anwar <mohiuddin@netzero.net>
To: manikcaptmukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; subimal@yahoo.com; jnrsr53@yahoo.com; farahmina@gmail.com; captchowdhury@yahoo.ca; manik195709@yahoo.com
Cc: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: Hindu Deities demolished at Serajdi Khan Upazila of Munshigonj district of Bangladesh on 21.01.2012

Mr. Subimol,
 
You guys don't believe the fact that ,Awami terrorists and golden boys of Hasina could of  be involved in the  destruction of Deities.
Still blaming BNP/Jamat for destruction of Hindu  Deities.
You always find so called 'sabotage' formula  to protect Awami terrorists well backed by the Hasina regime.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: Hindu Deities demolished at Serajdi Khan Upazila of Munshigonj district of Bangladesh on 21.01.2012
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 20:13:11 -0800 (PST)

 
  • Here you go. You have given three broad reasons: persecution of Hindus, political reasons, and religious hatred. In very rare cases will the perpetrator do it to go to paradise.
  • I remember in 1972 in the very Dhaka city, a couple of Durga pratimas were ransacked. It was probably a sabotage aimed at making AL unpopular. So the reason seemed to be political. Actually I do not clearly remember other explanations.
  • Advocate Rabindra Ghosh should be able to tell us actually what is happening in Chormordon. It is not unlikely that a fanatic Islamic group is doing it. Or it may be a political pressure on the local Hindus by BNP-Jamaat alliance for not supporting AL. 
 

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2012 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: Hindu Deities demolished at Serajdi Khan Upazila of Munshigonj district of Bangladesh on 21.01.2012

 
The destruction of deity is one the tools of persecution of Hindus. But, it has been used mostly out of religious hatred and political purposes. First time I saw such incident right after the independence in 1972, in which perpetrators entered into a temple during an ongoing religious festivity, and ransacked it, desecrated deities, and scattered beef throughout the temple right in front of devotees. I did not witness such incident during the Pakistani regime. At that time, I came to the conclusion that - it was due to religious hatred, arising from fanatical people out of their existential threats, which they never felt during the Pakistani regime. The religious fanatics are again facing such existential threats right now. Many more similar actions may ensue in the future….
 
Unfortunately, destruction of deity is sanctioned by religion, as Dr. Das has pointed out. Fortunately, 99% people in Bangladesh reject it, and they don't support religious fanaticism. As a result, military coup is the only avenue that is open to them to get the helm of Bangladesh. In order to create that ground, they need to destabilize country's law and order. They will try anything to do so. In the recent attempt, they failed. They need to wait for the next BNP rule. That will facilitate the golden opportunity, which will be the end of Bangladesh, as we know; Sharia Law will become the law of the land, and Bangla will become the Afghanistan, as they dream. The history will tell the rest …. 
 
 
Jiten Roy  

--- On Sun, 2/5/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: Hindu Deities demolished at Serajdi Khan Upazila of Munshigonj district of Bangladesh on 21.01.2012
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, February 5, 2012, 8:46 PM

 
Children of Abraham are assured of their place in heaven for such deeds.  Hence they ruin the icons of other religions.

On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 4:06 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from Jiten Roy included below]
 


--- On Sun, 2/5/12, Rabindra Ghose <ravin_3bd@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Rabindra Ghose <ravin_3bd@yahoo.com>
Subject: Hindu Deities demolished at Serajdi Khan Upazila of Munshigonj district of Bangladesh on 21.01.2012
To: "Media Monitor" <media_monitor5@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, February 5, 2012, 1:56 PM



Hi all,

Some unknown perpetrators on pof January,2012 unlawfully entered into Hindu temple and demolished "Kali Deity" at village-Chormordon within Serajdi Khan Upazila of Munshigonj District of Bangladesh.

When the devotees on last Saturday went to worship their Goddess "Kali Deity" they found that Hindu idols have been broken into pieces. They also informed police and police visited the spot.

As a result of repeated incidents of such desecration of Hindu dities Minority Hindus of those locality feeling unsafe as insecurity was prevailing.

Mr. Sheikh Mahabubur Rahman,the officer in Charge of Serajdi Khan police station said that a group of unidentified perpetrators are very much active in doing this sort of nefarious activities in the area. He hoped that he will identify those perpetrators and bring them to book.

In this connection a complain has been filed at Serajdi Khan police station. 

The matter has been published in the national daily "Jugantor" dated 22nd of January,2012.

BDMW and GHRD hurriedly communicated with the local administration over phone who informed us the situation is now under control. But till date no perpetrators has been identified by police.

Through

Adv.Rabindra Ghosh
Founder President-Bangladesh Minority Watch (BDMW)
12, K.M. Das Lane, Tikatully, Bholagiri Trust, Sutrapur P.s.,Dhaka, Bangladesh.
www.bdmw.org


 
 


 


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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] Rising Seas From Antarctica to Bangladesh



being ignorant, one may not know that 'h' remains mute in most pronunciations. Standard text books call the word 'Harb', and that doesn't definitely mean something herbal.

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 12:20 AM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 

The difference between 'Arb' and 'Harb' is insignificant.

>>>>>> Yeah they sounds close. But the meanings are miles apart. It is significant and important, if someone is serious about saying something accurate and authentic.

But for the "Creative mind" it is no not a "Big deal". ;-)



-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Feb 10, 2012 5:44 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Rising Seas From Antarctica to Bangladesh

 
The difference between 'Arb' and 'Harb' is insignificant.  But when Wikipedia quotes Vulgate that Moses grew horns after he was chosen to represent Yahweh, because ancient Egyptian God Aten had horns too.  Some say, Aten became YHWH before transforming into Yahweh.  I prefer to spell that vengeful God as Yahoo.  I fear some 'Baiyakaran' would catch me for spelling another word wrongly.

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Mahbub Kamal <mahbubk2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
No, I did not know why Michaelangelo's Moses has horn :-) I looked up in Wikipedia as it was quick, there is some explanation there. There might be some evidence supporting this in some other source (which might be authentic). Did not find the need to do so.
 
But what is the point here?
 
I already confessed that I am semi-literate and always trying to learn. Like I did not know that there is a term 'Dar-ul-Arb' - first I thought someone mis-spelled Dar-ul-Harb.
 
Rabindranath Tagore made mockery of  madhykarshan tatta of 'tiki' by 'maha-pandit' neo-hindus (this term is mine), who knows those guys might have been right and Tagore wrong :-) Now we have so-called scientific explanation of Koran - not sure why most of those 'scholars' are non-muslims and do not embrace Islam even though Koran is proved  scientifically corrct? :-)
 
From my experience I have a point though - most of the people with narrow vision thinks themselves as know-all.
 
Anyway, thanks to Subimal Chakraborty, Q. A. Rahman, Farida Majid and Jiten Roy as they always substantiate or try to substantiate their position. BTW, I do not agree with them on all issues, sometimes due to contradictory evidence (in my opinion) and sometimes as my belief is opposite.
 
Thanks to everyone.


--- On Mon, 2/6/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Rising Seas From Antarctica to Bangladesh
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Received: Monday, February 6, 2012, 7:10 PM


 
History, being reconstructed from 'evidences' may sometimes be indeed different from facts.  Different authors would place the same things differently.  Different people would also have different opinions, worst are those who would not stand any criticism.  My question to Mahbub Kamal, "Do you have any clue to why Michelangelo's Moses has horns?  Was he a goat?"

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 2:33 AM, Mahbub Kamal <mahbubk2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
You haven't seen it because Maulana Azad never declared as Dar-ul-Harb (I have never heard the term 'Dar-ul-Arb' unless it is not a typo). As far as I know Abdul Aziz, son of Shaw Waliullah Deolawi, declared India as Dar-ul-Harb. His disciple, Syed Ahmed Barelvi of Rai Bareilly was the founder of Wahabi movement in India. He was known as Shahid-e-Balakot as he was killed in place called Balakot while fighting against Ranjit Singh's army. 
 
Some people present many 'facts' very forcefully (sometimes too forcefully) which a semi-literate like me find hard to digest, some examples are the English word whore having the same origin as Arabic hur, Ram and Ra-Amun (Amun-Ra?) being the same personality :-)
 
Anyway they may have authentic sources out of at least my reach :-)
 
BTW, one of my ex-colleauges had a strong belief that Nooh (Noah) and Manu were same personality. Another senior colleague told me poet Imrul Kayes embraced Islam after losing in poetry contest with the prophet (P.B.U.H) and that Surah Al-Kawser was a result of the contest. When I said that Imrul Kayes died before the prophet's birth he became extremely angry as he heard that 'history' from his father who was an 'Alim'.
 
Regards.
--- On Sun, 2/5/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Rising Seas From Antarctica to Bangladesh
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Received: Sunday, February 5, 2012, 9:39 AM


 

Looked up some stories on Maulana Azad but did not see anything about calling India "Dar-ul_harb"


-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Feb 5, 2012 10:02 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Rising Seas From Antarctica to Bangladesh

 
The exodus occurred in the twenties of last century.  The man you cited existed a century earlier.  Read the history of Indian Independence and Azad's contribution to it.

On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 8:00 AM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
The message remains the same whether it is Azad or Berelvi.  Ain't it?


On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 6:44 AM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
I am afraid you are confusing Moulana Abul Kalam Azad with Syed Ahmed Berelvi!

Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 10:56 AM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Rising Seas From Antarctica to Bangladesh

 
One should be a little more aware of history.  When Maulana Azad called India 'Darul-i-arb' or the land of war, hundreds of thousands of Moslems packed their bags and crossed the Khyber pass to walk their holy land and perished in Afghanistan.

"In my opinion "spiritual home" assumption is totally wrong. It will also be wrong to say that the spiritual home of a Bangladeshi Hindu is Goya, Kashi, Vrindaban, Mathura, etc. Similarly the spiritual home of Bangladeshi Christians is not Jerusalem."

Indeed, anyone is entitled to his opinion.  However that would cot change the facts.


On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 8:22 AM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
  • "Spiritual home" of 4 million Hindus is not "thousands of miles away." You are forgetting them!
  • Modern civilized world will never consider letting "him drown" as a good option.
  • In my opinion "spiritual home" assumption is totally wrong. It will also be wrong to say that the spiritual home of a Bangladeshi Hindu is Goya, Kashi, Vrindaban, Mathura, etc. Similarly the spiritual home of Bangladeshi Christians is not Jerusalem.

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 11:25 AM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Rising Seas From Antarctica to Bangladesh

 
I wish to sympathize with my brother.  The basic problem, though, is that his spiritual home is thousands of miles away.  If he does not relocate to the place where his mind is, I have little choice but to let him drown.  Abraham left his motherland after it was too saline to support cultivation.  Rest is history.  If my brother and I are invaded by the ocean, I would have less difficulty than these children of Abraham with a desire to conquer other civilizations by hook or crook.

On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 10:13 AM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
  • First we should express our concern about the potentially endangered 35 million. We should think about what should be done about them. We do not have even 40 years at our disposal.
  • Of these 35 million about 4 million will be non-Muslims.
  • If the crisis really arises and mass migration to India occurs, can India and the rest of the world really remain indifferent in the face of this humanitarian crisis?
  • Why do we assume that most of them "will probably be brain-washed anti-Indian or down-right communal cadres of BNP/Jamat?" Why can't we see them as the distressed humanity?
  • My brother is sinking and I am worried that he will share and pollute my cousin's home! This cannot be the line of thinking.

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Rising Seas From Antarctica to Bangladesh

 

"Then there is Bangladesh. A one-meter sea level rise - which could happen as soon as 2050 according to some Antarctic specialists - could result in between 22 and 35 million people in Bangladesh relocating from the areas in which they now live and work. Two-thirds of this nation is less than five meters above sea level."
If the above prediction of Al Gore really comes true, can you guess where those 35 million people will go? All of them will move in to India. The eastern belt of West Bengal and Assam is already saturated with Bangladeshi settlers and migrant workers. Colonies after colonies of Bangladeshi settlers are already present all around Delhi, Bombay, and Gujrat; can they take another 35 million Bangladeshi settlers? Most of them will probably be brain-washed anti-Indian or down-right communal cadres of BNP/Jamat. What can India do with such unwanted guests? I do not envision a happy ending. Do you?
Jiten Roy

From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 3:38 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Rising Seas From Antarctica to Bangladesh

 



Portrait, climate activist and former Vice President Al Gore, 11/03/09. (photo: Graeme Robertson)
Portrait, climate activist and former Vice President Al Gore, 11/03/09. (photo: Graeme Robertson)
go to original article


Rising Seas From Antarctica to Bangladesh

Al Gore, Reader Supported News
01 February 12
 
fter crossing the legendary Drake Passage, we came in sight of the Antarctic continent. It is a majestic, otherworldly place. The Antarctic Peninsula, which juts northward toward South America, is lined with ice-covered mountains and surrounded by abundant wildlife in the sea. But even on this continent that looks and feels pristine, a troubling process is underway because of global warming.
The ice on land is melting at a faster rate and large ice sheets are moving toward the ocean more rapidly. As a result, sea levels are rising worldwide. Most of the world's ice is contained in Antarctica - more than 90 percent. The West Antarctic Ice Sheet, which lies south of the Peninsula, contains enough water to raise sea levels worldwide by more than 20 feet. Part of the ice sheet, the Pine Island Glacier ice shelf, is among the many in Antarctica that are shrinking at an accelerating rate. This has direct consequences for low-lying coastal and island communities all over the world - and for their inland neighbors.
In analyzing the relationship between melting ice and sea level rise, it is important to distinguish between two kinds of ice: the ice on land and the ice floating on top of the sea. When floating ice melts, sea level is not affected, because its weight has already pushed the sea level upward. But the melting of glaciers and ice sheets resting on land does increase sea level rise. So far, the melting of small mountain glaciers and portions of ice sheets in Antarctica and Greenland has been the main contributor to sea level rise from the loss of ice. (As the oceans warm up, their volume naturally expands, and this too has been a contributor to a small portion of the sea level rise that has occurred in the age of global warming).
Scientists aren't yet sure precisely how much sea levels will rise over the next century. What we do know is that sea level rise is occurring already, with real consequences for human beings who live near the coasts. In the world's largest port cities, 40 million people are now already at risk of severe coastal flooding. That number could well triple within the next half-century or so.
Even wealthier countries are not immune to the impacts. In the United States, for example, particularly vulnerable areas are: Miami Beach, the Chesapeake region, coastal Louisiana, and coastal Texas. In some of these areas, the land is sinking even as the oceans rise. This will have implications that extend right up to the steps of our nation's Capitol. A recent study found that sea level rise of only a tenth of a meter would lead to $2 billion in property damage and affect almost 68,000 people in Washington, D.C. In addition, the enhanced threat of storm surges was illustrated last year when tropical storm Irene led to warnings that the New York City subway system and tunnels into the city could be flooded.
But the most vulnerable regions lie in developing countries, where populations are still rising fast and there is little money to shore up infrastructure. The cities most threatened by sea level rise are places like Calcutta and Mumbai in India; Guangzhou, China; and Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam. And of course, there are more than a few low-lying island nations - like the Maldives - that are already in imminent danger.
Then there is Bangladesh. A one-meter sea level rise - which could happen as soon as 2050 according to some Antarctic specialists - could result in between 22 and 35 million people in Bangladesh relocating from the areas in which they now live and work. Two-thirds of this nation is less than five meters above sea level. For the nation's 142 million people packed into a small space, climate change poses a nearly unimaginable challenge. The threat of sea level rise is not simply flooding, but saltwater intrusion that hurts the production of rice, the country's staple crop. Increased damage to rice farmers could soon put 20 million farmers out of work and force them into crowded cities.
Here in Antarctica, it's easy to feel isolated from the rest of the world. But as I look at this exquisite continent buried deep under the ice, it's troubling to think about what will happen as this ice melts ever more rapidly.
Reader Supported News is the Publication of Origin for this work. Permission to republish is freely granted with credit and a link back to Reader Supported News.
 

















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Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly



The Indian subcontinent offers a glaring example of 'religious tolerance'.  In the last century, over a million killed and tens of millions displaced due to religious belief.  The number of forcible conversions are beyond count.  Mr. Chakravarty is not only an appeaser and an optimist who would see no evil, hear no evil, though speak evil sometimes.

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Well, when I talk about "How to follow religions correctly", I certainly mean what should be the "practiced versions of religions." To practice religions like civilized human beings who care about harmonious coexistence of all innocent people, followers of most religions have to edit their religions and/or ignore some aspects of their religions to fit their common sense and what Dr. Roy called "human compassion."
 
I am sure Mr. Chakrabarty and I have seen innocent people who actually have very little knowledge of their religions. They realize that their God has also created people who do not have the same thoughts about God. They could see that it would be wrong for them to hate, discriminate against, or commit atrocities against other kinds of people. These people are good primarily because of their good common sense, not because of their religions.
 
I have no argument with Mr. Chakrabarty about good practiced versions of religions. However, "Every religion teaches tolerance about other religions" is a wrong statement if we go by what quite a few of the religions are by their books.
 
Sukhamaya Bain

From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 11:36 PM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
 
  • Both Jiten Roy and Sukhamaya Bain need to read my message on the "practiced" version of a religion. Peaceful coexistence is not a myth (exampe, Hindus vs Muslims in Bengal). Peace has sometimes been broken by nasty politics. During communal riots the members of the two different religious communities give shelter to one another. We just need to reflect on the past and the present as well. 
  • Religion is not a unique thing. It has infinite versions. There are infinite levels of religious belief. If you want to program your GPS, make sure where you want to go, in other words, which version of religion is your destination.
  • Here you go Mr. Roy: "Whatever tolerance we see is due to societal laws, and out of human compassion." That is what I am talking about: this is the practiced religion. You have mentioned only two determinants. There are many more forces that tend to keep religions universally appealing. That helps build communal harmony. But there is always a risk.


From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
 

Religion is like a GPS device, if you follow the turn-by-turn direction of it, you will end up in a predefined culture. This part is well tested and verified. Anything else is just guesswork or pipedream.
 
Religion, being a GPS system that can only take you to a predefined culture, cannot be used as a political system for a multicultural society. If you do, you will enforce a particular culture onto a multicultural society, and the outcome will be chaos and calamity in an otherwise peaceful society.
 
When we talk about religious tolerance, we should also remember that religion is a business also. Do you think any business like competitors? Whatever tolerance we see is due to societal laws, and out of human compassion. In my view, religion is a cultural hegemony, nothing more. As a result, the history of religious coexistence is written in blood.
 
Jiten Roy--- On Wed, 2/8/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 8, 2012, 8:26 PM

 
I would like to comment on the following two comments:
 
S. Chakrabarty: "Every religion teaches tolerance about other religions."
 
J. Roy: "Most people believe in Allah in their own way."
 
S. Bain: Mr. Chakrabarty is very wrong here. I like Dr. Roy's statement. Please see below for some elaborations of these two comments.
 
None of the Abrahamic religions tolerate idolatry, which is a Hindu religious practice. People who identify themselves in terms of an Abrahamic religion, yet tolerate idolatry, do it in spite of their religion, not because of it. For example, many Christian communities in the USA allow Durga Puja in the churches because they have advanced enough to ignore some of the aspects of their religion, not because Christianity is not against idolatry. Enough reading and honest interpretations of the fundamentals of religions would show that many religions consider the following of other religions to be inappropriate, wrong, sinful and even punishable. I am personally reluctant to dig deeper into that. But I am sure Mr. Chakrabarty would find the example of idolatry that I noted here to be a valid one.
 
While almost all Muslims use the Arabic word Allah for the English word God, the word Allah was in use long before Islam came into being. Thus, Muslims really do not have a proprietary right on the word Allah. When a Christian or a Hindu prays to God, he is praying to Allah. In fact the Arab Christians do call God Allah. A Hindu should be able to use the Arabic word Allah as much as he uses the English word God to do his way of praying, including what would be clearly un-Islamic. A Bangalee Muslim should have no problem using the word "Ishwar" instead of the word "Allah." That should not cause anyone to lose his Islam.
 
Well, that's all for now.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".                -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190
.




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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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