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Sunday, November 13, 2011

RE: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?



I for one, do NOT advocate banishing the followers of other religions. I advocate tolerance for ALL religions. But please do not single out Islam and criticize it without rhyme or reason.

Mustafizur Rahman


To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: qrahman@netscape.net
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:41:24 -0500
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 

Everyone is entitled to have an opinion. Everyone CANNOT have their own 'Facts". In order to establish your opinions, you NEED to supply credible sources to support them. So far you were UNABLE to do that and kept throwing more dirt about Islam.

Unlike member Mustafizur Rahman, I am fine with that. You are WELCOME to criticize Islam. HOWEVER if you want us to take your "Opinions" seriously, you have to do MORE than just sharing myths about Islam. You have to share credible sources to establish your "Theories". As I stated earlier, if you cannot do that, try to enjoy learning with sources. Because I try to do that as much as possible.

Peace.


-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 13, 2011 8:39 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 
It is not politically correct to criticize Islam, but it is o.k. to banish the followers of other religions.  Mr. Mustafizur Rahman may not tolerate any criticism against Islam, but can he hide the dirt under the carpet without producing any side effect?

On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 2:29 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Mr. Mustafizur Rahman,
 
I knew that this is coming. That's why - about a month back, I asked a particular member of this forum not to quote from his religious scripture. My argument was that – if you bring your religion for discussion, others will criticize it, and you have to have the stomach for that situation. Many of you were upset and said that - he has the right to bring any topic for discussion in this forum. After all it is the Mukto-mona forum. Some opined that - I have no power to stop anything in this forum. You were all right. I have no power to stop anything.
 
My intention for this particular discussion thread was to discuss 'religion' in general, not a particular one. Someone introduced Islam into the discussion to show that Islam has solution for everything, and the cascade followed. Snce, I did not bring Islam into the discussion, you cannot say that I have targeted Islam. My personal opinion is – all religions are the same, and none of them are any good. I also do not like politics-with-religion, be that Islam or Hiduism or Christianity or any other religions. I hope - I have explained myself clearly. If not, let me know.
 
Again, I reiterate, do not bring your religion for discussion here if you cannot handle criticism of it. I sometime bring Hinduism into the discussion, an I am mature enough to handle the criticism.
 
Thank you.
 
Jiten Roy


From: MUSTAFIZUR RAHMAN <mustafiz84@hotmail.com>
To: Mukto-mona Mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 5:47 AM

Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
Kamal Das, Jiten Roy etc,

Will you STOP taking advantage of this Forum and refrain from spreading your venom against Islam?

Mustafizur Rahman
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.comFrom: kamalctgu@gmail.comDate: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 08:07:31 +0600Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society? 
The core message was not convincing enough even to Abu Talib, the mentor and the protector of the prophet.  The mesage is to obtain 72 houries and 28 gillmans in the afterlife with an everlasting erection.  Even Ibn Sina wondered, how the prophet, being the intelligent man that he was, spread such rubbish.  Then he came up with his own intelligent solution!  Consider the intelligence of the average people of medieval times, and you have the answer.About the animal sacrifice, it is the practice in many cultures.  The poor animal dies to serve the religion.  In the primitive times, the first  child was to be sacrificed as an expiation to the cardinal sin from which every child is born.  Abraham himself was a butcher in the temple of Melech.  As he was not sure of his fatherhood of his children, given his age and inability to sire any during his life, he exiled Ismael and Hagar to Mecca, and took Isaac to sacrifice as burnt offering to Moloch.  But he changed his mind later and told the Canaanites that God intervened in the last moment.  Abraham was used to telling lies.  Earlier he passed Sarah as his sister to gain material advantages.  Animal sacrifice has been a common practice across the world. There was no cheaper way to feed people in feasts.  Cow sacrifice by Indian Muslims are intended only to anoy the local Hindus.  Such practice is not the Arabian norm.
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 4:48 PM, sentu tikadar <sentu92003@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
You are right these were acts of half educated idiots who do not understand the core message of Islam.
 
What is the core message ?

 What is the core message of Islam?
 
Tolerance to other Faiths? 
 
Deny others' Faiths and indirectly condemn others' Faiths five times a day? And  brain washing five times per day (like advertisement) later the uncivilised indisciplined Beduin forget  Mohammad ?  So much endeavour to be remembered by ppeople just like a politician sex maniac.
 
What is the teaching? Killing people who would not accept his Faith and used the women of the defeated people. Told something good in Mecca and the same thing told in a reversed way in Medina.  He had written( actually by other) a Book copied from other Book (Bible) because he knew he could not write a completely new  Book out of nothing.So he had taken the easiest and ready- made way. Just Copy and relate him with taht Book's men. So intelligent he was. 
 
Just see the Qurbani in Idd? How people can cut throat the cow which he garlanded with flowers? Giving flowers garland means showing respect to it? After showing respect and / or love it is cut. Desert culture has ruined us. It had divided us. It had killed us. It had made us animals from human. That's why Saudi never allows other to follow their religions in open? In Kashmir, In Pakistan, in Bangladesh , even in India (Deganga of West Bengal) temples' deities demolition is a noble job.
 
They don't feel any pity to that cow? In Pakistan some children stay night with the cow or goat putting flower garlands around its neck. In the morning that animal is cut throat? Height of cruelty !!!  This is the culture mid east had given to us. We borrowed the hard religion from desert while we were not the desert people. 
Is this the teaching of real Allah? Giving pain to a living being Allah feels happy? Don't believe that Allah who is biased. Allah is not a democratic fellow? So the believers of that Allah can not be democratic. That's why most of the Allah believers democratic country are failed country. Who will accept Allah he must be ruled with iron hand otherwise he will loose faiths. So many trics Mahammad had understood and apllied. A real dictator of 1400 years ago. 











     
 
 
--- On Thu, 11/10/11, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 10, 2011, 5:47 AM
 
Killing of the Ahmediyas by the followers of Mowdoodi in Pakistan, killing and raping of freedom loving Bengalis in 1971, bombing of mosques to kill innocent Shiites in Pakistan and Iraq and somewhere else----are all these the acts by the secularists?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are right these were acts of half educated idiots who do not understand the core message of Islam. However atheist people have done more murdering of innocents than any religious people. Stalin, Mao (Of china) etc done their part in killing anyone who had a different point of view.
-----Original Message-----From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thu, Nov 10, 2011 6:37 amSubject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
Killing of the Ahmediyas by the followers of Mowdoodi in Pakistan, killing and raping of freedom loving Bengalis in 1971, bombing of mosques to kill innocent Shiites in Pakistan and Iraq and somewhere else----are all these the acts by the secularists?
From: S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2011 2:16 AM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
Respected all,
Atheists and secularists (who believe in naturalism and rationalism only and who deny role of religion in public life) are more menace to humanity, morality, civilization as history shows. Most of the wars including first and second great wars were waged by them.
Most of the people of religions are good people. Many of them are misguided by secular political leaders or some ignorant and aggressive religious bigots.
Religious people of all religions should fight these exploiters and stand for humanity, morality and social welfare.
 
Shah Abdul Hannan
 
From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jiten Roy
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 6:42 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
 
@Nihar Singh:
 
The true religious people - who are they? Whether they bother anybody or not - is not the issue. The issue is how much is their contribution towards the advancement of the modern society? Are people, who take part in the communal riots or blowup innocent people in the name of religion, any less religious? You may think so - but they don't.
 
@Kamal Das:
The New Testaments does not contain many of the violent verses of the Old Testament means these are not absolute truth. This is the point I am trying to make.
 
Thanks.
 
 
From: nihar singh <nihar_singh786@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 
Truely religious people dont disturb anyone. On the other hand atheists try to make everyone atheists. That is true menace. Look at darwin he made everyone think that they eveolved from apes. Many jokers believe this to be true.



--- On Mon, 11/7/11, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
To: "Mukto-mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, November 7, 2011, 7:12 PM
Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
I have been asking this question lately to myself. I tried to find the roles and contributions (I mean, real contributions) of religious people in the society that brought us here from the beginning of time. What I envisioned is that - religion played a very insignificant role towards our social, moral, and scientific developments in this world. Most of these developments are made by religiously indifferent people. The religious people mostly deal with and talk about things that are out of this world. As a result, many of these religious people are misfits and menaces in the society.
 
Many argue that religion builds our moral character, and we learn good and bad from religion, etc. etc. I, on the other hand, think – good and bad we learn from our ancestors, and from our own experiences; religion has nothing to do with it. You might ask where our ancestors learned them from, in the first place. They learned good and bad from their ancestors' experiences, so on, and so forth. Most Chinese do not have any religion. When I asked a Chinese man - how most people there learn about good and bad without religion, he told me - they learn them from their elders' wisdoms. That's right; our ancestors transferred their knowledge and wisdom to us. Therefore, I truly believe – this world would have been a much better place without religion. Religions have divided us into many sectarian hateful clans, which are constantly fighting with one another.
 
Many of us believe that religious doctrines and dogmas are heavenly absolute entities. They forget that - many of those doctrines, dogmas, and interpretations have already been modified from the original preaching during emancipation. For example, Old Testament has been replaced by the New Testament, many Quranic interpretations have been changed, and many Vedic/Puranic practices and interpretations have been changed, etc., etc. That means - religious teachings and practices are subject to change with the time, which means they are not so heavenly endowments as we believe them to be. This is a critical point to remember. Those who think otherwise are the menaces in the society.
 
Jiten Roy




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               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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RE: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?



Equal opportunity critic to all religions? Why? Why criticize all religions? Medieval period was not a bad period. In English literature this word is at times used in a negative sense. Human progress went through - as the West has categorized it - stages like iron period, bronze period, medieval period etc. Can you single out one period that was bad? If you disbelieve in the very existence of God, that is a different matter. But what will you do with the billions of people who do believe in the existence of a Creator and seek His assistance?

Mustafizur Rahman


To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: qrahman@netscape.net
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:36:52 -0500
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 

You have been sharing orientalist myths about Islam. Modern day scholars do not buy these any more. Such orientalists also spread lies against Hindus as well. Which prompted Swami Vivekananda to visit USA over hundred years ago. He went there to answer to those myths and explain his faith to the west.

Over and over I have asked you to share SOURCES of your info but only got unclear answers. Please clarify your positions or take this opportunity to learn something new.

Peace.


-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 13, 2011 8:39 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 
I do not spread venom against Islam.  I am an 'equal opportunity' critic to all religions, and every medieval tendency to invoke God as an answer to all problems.   I refer to historical facts when some 'religious' men use this forum to spread Islam.

2011/11/12 MUSTAFIZUR RAHMAN <mustafiz84@hotmail.com>
 
Kamal Das, Jiten Roy etc,

Will you STOP taking advantage of this Forum and refrain from spreading your venom against Islam?

Mustafizur Rahman


To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: kamalctgu@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 08:07:31 +0600

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 
The core message was not convincing enough even to Abu Talib, the mentor and the protector of the prophet.  The mesage is to obtain 72 houries and 28 gillmans in the afterlife with an everlasting erection.  Even Ibn Sina wondered, how the prophet, being the intelligent man that he was, spread such rubbish.  Then he came up with his own intelligent solution!  Consider the intelligence of the average people of medieval times, and you have the answer.

About the animal sacrifice, it is the practice in many cultures.  The poor animal dies to serve the religion.  In the primitive times, the first  child was to be sacrificed as an expiation to the cardinal sin from which every child is born.  Abraham himself was a butcher in the temple of Melech.  As he was not sure of his fatherhood of his children, given his age and inability to sire any during his life, he exiled Ismael and Hagar to Mecca, and took Isaac to sacrifice as burnt offering to Moloch.  But he changed his mind later and told the Canaanites that God intervened in the last moment.  Abraham was used to telling lies.  Earlier he passed Sarah as his sister to gain material advantages. 

Animal sacrifice has been a common practice across the world. There was no cheaper way to feed people in feasts.  Cow sacrifice by Indian Muslims are intended only to anoy the local Hindus.  Such practice is not the Arabian norm.


On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 4:48 PM, sentu tikadar <sentu92003@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

You are right these were acts of half educated idiots who do not understand the core message of Islam.
 
What is the core message ?

 What is the core message of Islam?
 
Tolerance to other Faiths? 
 
Deny others' Faiths and indirectly condemn others' Faiths five times a day? And  brain washing five times per day (like advertisement) later the uncivilised indisciplined Beduin forget  Mohammad ?  So much endeavour to be remembered by ppeople just like a politician sex maniac.
 
What is the teaching? Killing people who would not accept his Faith and used the women of the defeated people. Told something good in Mecca and the same thing told in a reversed way in Medina.  He had written( actually by other) a Book copied from other Book (Bible) because he knew he could not write a completely new  Book out of nothing.So he had taken the easiest and ready- made way. Just Copy and relate him with taht Book's men. So intelligent he was. 
 
Just see the Qurbani in Idd? How people can cut throat the cow which he garlanded with flowers? Giving flowers garland means showing respect to it? After showing respect and / or love it is cut. Desert culture has ruined us. It had divided us. It had killed us. It had made us animals from human. That's why Saudi never allows other to follow their religions in open? In Kashmir, In Pakistan, in Bangladesh , even in India (Deganga of West Bengal) temples' deities demolition is a noble job.
 
They don't feel any pity to that cow? In Pakistan some children stay night with the cow or goat putting flower garlands around its neck. In the morning that animal is cut throat? Height of cruelty !!!  This is the culture mid east had given to us. We borrowed the hard religion from desert while we were not the desert people. 
Is this the teaching of real Allah? Giving pain to a living being Allah feels happy? Don't believe that Allah who is biased. Allah is not a democratic fellow? So the believers of that Allah can not be democratic. That's why most of the Allah believers democratic country are failed country. Who will accept Allah he must be ruled with iron hand otherwise he will loose faiths. So many trics Mahammad had understood and apllied. A real dictator of 1400 years ago. 











     
 
 
--- On Thu, 11/10/11, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 10, 2011, 5:47 AM


 
Killing of the Ahmediyas by the followers of Mowdoodi in Pakistan, killing and raping of freedom loving Bengalis in 1971, bombing of mosques to kill innocent Shiites in Pakistan and Iraq and somewhere else----are all these the acts by the secularists?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are right these were acts of half educated idiots who do not understand the core message of Islam.

However atheist people have done more murdering of innocents than any religious people. Stalin, Mao (Of china) etc done their part in killing anyone who had a different point of view.
-----Original Message-----
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 10, 2011 6:37 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 
Killing of the Ahmediyas by the followers of Mowdoodi in Pakistan, killing and raping of freedom loving Bengalis in 1971, bombing of mosques to kill innocent Shiites in Pakistan and Iraq and somewhere else----are all these the acts by the secularists?

From: S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2011 2:16 AM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
Respected all,
Atheists and secularists (who believe in naturalism and rationalism only and who deny role of religion in public life) are more menace to humanity, morality, civilization as history shows. Most of the wars including first and second great wars were waged by them.
Most of the people of religions are good people. Many of them are misguided by secular political leaders or some ignorant and aggressive religious bigots.
Religious people of all religions should fight these exploiters and stand for humanity, morality and social welfare.
 
Shah Abdul Hannan
 
From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jiten Roy
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 6:42 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
 
@Nihar Singh:
 
The true religious people - who are they? Whether they bother anybody or not - is not the issue. The issue is how much is their contribution towards the advancement of the modern society? Are people, who take part in the communal riots or blowup innocent people in the name of religion, any less religious? You may think so - but they don't.
 
@Kamal Das:
The New Testaments does not contain many of the violent verses of the Old Testament means these are not absolute truth. This is the point I am trying to make.
 
Thanks.
 
 
From: nihar singh <nihar_singh786@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 
Truely religious people dont disturb anyone. On the other hand atheists try to make everyone atheists. That is true menace. Look at darwin he made everyone think that they eveolved from apes. Many jokers believe this to be true.



--- On Mon, 11/7/11, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
To: "Mukto-mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, November 7, 2011, 7:12 PM
Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
I have been asking this question lately to myself. I tried to find the roles and contributions (I mean, real contributions) of religious people in the society that brought us here from the beginning of time. What I envisioned is that - religion played a very insignificant role towards our social, moral, and scientific developments in this world. Most of these developments are made by religiously indifferent people. The religious people mostly deal with and talk about things that are out of this world. As a result, many of these religious people are misfits and menaces in the society.
 
Many argue that religion builds our moral character, and we learn good and bad from religion, etc. etc. I, on the other hand, think – good and bad we learn from our ancestors, and from our own experiences; religion has nothing to do with it. You might ask where our ancestors learned them from, in the first place. They learned good and bad from their ancestors' experiences, so on, and so forth. Most Chinese do not have any religion. When I asked a Chinese man - how most people there learn about good and bad without religion, he told me - they learn them from their elders' wisdoms. That's right; our ancestors transferred their knowledge and wisdom to us. Therefore, I truly believe – this world would have been a much better place without religion. Religions have divided us into many sectarian hateful clans, which are constantly fighting with one another.
 
Many of us believe that religious doctrines and dogmas are heavenly absolute entities. They forget that - many of those doctrines, dogmas, and interpretations have already been modified from the original preaching during emancipation. For example, Old Testament has been replaced by the New Testament, many Quranic interpretations have been changed, and many Vedic/Puranic practices and interpretations have been changed, etc., etc. That means - religious teachings and practices are subject to change with the time, which means they are not so heavenly endowments as we believe them to be. This is a critical point to remember. Those who think otherwise are the menaces in the society.
 
Jiten Roy







__._,_.___


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
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RE: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?



Governments and corporations - man made systems -  also use the fear factor. Or the carrot and stick method, to keep general people on the track. So it is not so low level a purpose. It is universal. You have to have a prize and punishment system in any organisation. Doesn't it work for the educated section? I contest the notion that religion works well for mostly uneducated people. It works for any one who believes in one. His wealth does not matter. Rather it works even better for the wealthier section - or else why would they give away significant portions of their life time earnings for philanthropic causes near the end of their lives? I agree that some of these so called sole agents of religions cause problems. But challenging them have caused more unrests leading to deaths of innocents. And challenging them leads to mudslinging which is uncalled for. For example, in this Forum some who are educated, have attributed atrocious character traits to the Prophet of Islam, whom millions revere. Is this what you call 'challenge these sole agents

Mustafizur Rahman



To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: subimal@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 15:28:31 -0800
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 

For Dr. Roy
  • We do not have to resort to the concept of a "higher power" to explain the diversity of religions. We see diversity in other areas also. Some examples are political ideologies, arts and literature, cultures, human race, language, and many more. Of all these, religions, arts and literature, political ideologies etc. were created by man----sometimes by the most gifted among them. If you want, you may ascribe the presence of a divine power behind these creativities.   
For Mr. Rahman
  • I fully agree that religions use fear factor in an attempt to keep one on the "right" track. I also agree that because of this many "would be" criminals have turned into angels. Without going into the debate of how effective this is, I must add that this is a low level purpose That a religion serves. It however and works well for mostly uneducated people. Religion has a higher purpose. On the one hand it satisfies the spiritual thirst of a person, and on the other it promises to bring peace and justice in this world. The problem is that the "sole agents" of a religion have extremely narrow vision of it or they use it as a tool to exploit people. And because of the latter purpose is not yet visible as much as we expected. The thing has become worse because because of inter-faith or inter-religious clashes as has been pointed out by Roy. That's why I reiterare that we should challenge these sole agents.       

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
Thanks for expressing your views also. I had no idea what you were telling in you last post. Now, I understand your views, and agree that – religions have saved many souls. My problem is not the idea of a divine religion, but - the existence of too many religions, which has divided human race into so many religious clans. I tend to believe in the existence of a higher power, just like you. What I have hard time to believe is that the same higher power will ever introduce so many religious views to divide us. Something does not add up, and there has to be something wrong in that picture. Everybody believes that theirs' is the right way. This sentiment will forever keep the interfaith competition and hatred alive. There is no way out.
 
You seem to be a peace loving man, who wants religious harmony in the society. We all want that. Most religious people in the society also want that. In spite of all good intentions, peace is eloping from us every day. If you analyze all recent conflicts in the world, the root cause is the existence of multiple religions, which leads me to conclude that there is an inherent fault in our belief systems. How else we can explain this fallacy. I think you will agree with me on this point. I don't think that without open discussions of this issue we will ever be able to get out of this vicious cycle.
 
I know religion is a sentimental issue for many, but - why? Why do we have so much touchy feelings about religion? Have we ever thought about that point? I cannot find a valid reason or justification for this, except to say that we are psychologically conditioned to feel that way. This is how I see – let's say someone criticizes my faith, and I believe that my faith is the right one, then - he is wrong in my view.  Why should I mind or be angry at someone when I know I am right, and he is wrong? It may be because of the fact that we are not so sure of our faith, and we want to protect it. Your participation in this regard will be highly appreciated.
 
Jiten Roy

From: MUSTAFIZUR RAHMAN <mustafiz84@hotmail.com>
To: Mukto-mona Mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 1:25 AM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
Mr Jiten Roy,

Thanks for your view points. Religion is a sensitive issue for those who believe in one. As such it should not be criticized in a manner that it makes the believer angry. So I agree with you that 'one should not throw stones at others if one is living in a glass house'. Let us not turn this Forum into a 'Hindu-Muslim Hate Forum'. We have seen the effects of stoking this hate (Hindus versus Muslims in the Indian sub continent) during 1940s. Now we should not start it again, albeit through this (internet) media. You have the right to stick to your opinion that 'all religions are the same, and none of them are any good'. I for one, believe that religion is essential when answers to many questions cannot be given with the help of science.  I hold the view that religions have turned many would be beasts into angels in our societies. When the fear of law, prisons, solitary confinements etc. does not deter, the fear of burning in hell for ever works. Thanks.

Mustafizur Rahman

To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com From: jnrsr53@yahoo.com Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 12:29:11 -0800 Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society? 
Mr. Mustafizur Rahman,
 
I knew that this is coming. That's why - about a month back, I asked a particular member of this forum not to quote from his religious scripture. My argument was that – if you bring your religion for discussion, others will criticize it, and you have to have the stomach for that situation. Many of you were upset and said that - he has the right to bring any topic for discussion in this forum. After all it is the Mukto-mona forum. Some opined that - I have no power to stop anything in this forum. You were all right. I have no power to stop anything.
 
My intention for this particular discussion thread was to discuss 'religion' in general, not a particular one. Someone introduced Islam into the discussion to show that Islam has solution for everything, and the cascade followed. Snce, I did not bring Islam into the discussion, you cannot say that I have targeted Islam. My personal opinion is – all religions are the same, and none of them are any good. I also do not like politics-with-religion, be that Islam or Hiduism or Christianity or any other religions. I hope - I have explained myself clearly. If not, let me know.
 
Again, I reiterate, do not bring your religion for discussion here if you cannot handle criticism of it. I sometime bring Hinduism into the discussion, an I am mature enough to handle the criticism.
 
Thank you.
 
Jiten Roy


From: MUSTAFIZUR RAHMAN <mustafiz84@hotmail.com>
To: Mukto-mona Mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 5:47 AM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
Kamal Das, Jiten Roy etc,

Will you STOP taking advantage of this Forum and refrain from spreading your venom against Islam?

Mustafizur Rahman
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com From: kamalctgu@gmail.com Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 08:07:31 +0600 Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society? 
The core message was not convincing enough even to Abu Talib, the mentor and the protector of the prophet.  The mesage is to obtain 72 houries and 28 gillmans in the afterlife with an everlasting erection.  Even Ibn Sina wondered, how the prophet, being the intelligent man that he was, spread such rubbish.  Then he came up with his own intelligent solution!  Consider the intelligence of the average people of medieval times, and you have the answer. About the animal sacrifice, it is the practice in many cultures.  The poor animal dies to serve the religion.  In the primitive times, the first  child was to be sacrificed as an expiation to the cardinal sin from which every child is born.  Abraham himself was a butcher in the temple of Melech.  As he was not sure of his fatherhood of his children, given his age and inability to sire any during his life, he exiled Ismael and Hagar to Mecca, and took Isaac to sacrifice as burnt offering to Moloch.  But he changed his mind later and told the Canaanites that God intervened in the last moment.  Abraham was used to telling lies.  Earlier he passed Sarah as his sister to gain material advantages.  Animal sacrifice has been a common practice across the world. There was no cheaper way to feed people in feasts.  Cow sacrifice by Indian Muslims are intended only to anoy the local Hindus.  Such practice is not the Arabian norm.
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 4:48 PM, sentu tikadar <sentu92003@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
You are right these were acts of half educated idiots who do not understand the core message of Islam.
 
What is the core message ?

 What is the core message of Islam?
 
Tolerance to other Faiths? 
 
Deny others' Faiths and indirectly condemn others' Faiths five times a day? And  brain washing five times per day (like advertisement) later the uncivilised indisciplined Beduin forget  Mohammad ?  So much endeavour to be remembered by ppeople just like a politician sex maniac.
 
What is the teaching? Killing people who would not accept his Faith and used the women of the defeated people. Told something good in Mecca and the same thing told in a reversed way in Medina.  He had written( actually by other) a Book copied from other Book (Bible) because he knew he could not write a completely new  Book out of nothing.So he had taken the easiest and ready- made way. Just Copy and relate him with taht Book's men. So intelligent he was. 
 
Just see the Qurbani in Idd? How people can cut throat the cow which he garlanded with flowers? Giving flowers garland means showing respect to it? After showing respect and / or love it is cut. Desert culture has ruined us. It had divided us. It had killed us. It had made us animals from human. That's why Saudi never allows other to follow their religions in open? In Kashmir, In Pakistan, in Bangladesh , even in India (Deganga of West Bengal) temples' deities demolition is a noble job.
 
They don't feel any pity to that cow? In Pakistan some children stay night with the cow or goat putting flower garlands around its neck. In the morning that animal is cut throat? Height of cruelty !!!  This is the culture mid east had given to us. We borrowed the hard religion from desert while we were not the desert people. 
Is this the teaching of real Allah? Giving pain to a living being Allah feels happy? Don't believe that Allah who is biased. Allah is not a democratic fellow? So the believers of that Allah can not be democratic. That's why most of the Allah believers democratic country are failed country. Who will accept Allah he must be ruled with iron hand otherwise he will loose faiths. So many trics Mahammad had understood and apllied. A real dictator of 1400 years ago. 











     
 
 
--- On Thu, 11/10/11, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 10, 2011, 5:47 AM
 
Killing of the Ahmediyas by the followers of Mowdoodi in Pakistan, killing and raping of freedom loving Bengalis in 1971, bombing of mosques to kill innocent Shiites in Pakistan and Iraq and somewhere else----are all these the acts by the secularists?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are right these were acts of half educated idiots who do not understand the core message of Islam. However atheist people have done more murdering of innocents than any religious people. Stalin, Mao (Of china) etc done their part in killing anyone who had a different point of view.
-----Original Message----- From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Nov 10, 2011 6:37 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
Killing of the Ahmediyas by the followers of Mowdoodi in Pakistan, killing and raping of freedom loving Bengalis in 1971, bombing of mosques to kill innocent Shiites in Pakistan and Iraq and somewhere else----are all these the acts by the secularists?
From: S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2011 2:16 AM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
Respected all,
Atheists and secularists (who believe in naturalism and rationalism only and who deny role of religion in public life) are more menace to humanity, morality, civilization as history shows. Most of the wars including first and second great wars were waged by them.
Most of the people of religions are good people. Many of them are misguided by secular political leaders or some ignorant and aggressive religious bigots.
Religious people of all religions should fight these exploiters and stand for humanity, morality and social welfare.
 
Shah Abdul Hannan
 
From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jiten Roy
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 6:42 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
 
@Nihar Singh:
 
The true religious people - who are they? Whether they bother anybody or not - is not the issue. The issue is how much is their contribution towards the advancement of the modern society? Are people, who take part in the communal riots or blowup innocent people in the name of religion, any less religious? You may think so - but they don't.
 
@Kamal Das:
The New Testaments does not contain many of the violent verses of the Old Testament means these are not absolute truth. This is the point I am trying to make.
 
Thanks.
 
 
From: nihar singh <nihar_singh786@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?

 
Truely religious people dont disturb anyone. On the other hand atheists try to make everyone atheists. That is true menace. Look at darwin he made everyone think that they eveolved from apes. Many jokers believe this to be true.



--- On Mon, 11/7/11, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Are some religious people menaces in the society?
To: "Mukto-mona" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, November 7, 2011, 7:12 PM
Are some religious people menaces in the society?
 
I have been asking this question lately to myself. I tried to find the roles and contributions (I mean, real contributions) of religious people in the society that brought us here from the beginning of time. What I envisioned is that - religion played a very insignificant role towards our social, moral, and scientific developments in this world. Most of these developments are made by religiously indifferent people. The religious people mostly deal with and talk about things that are out of this world. As a result, many of these religious people are misfits and menaces in the society.
 
Many argue that religion builds our moral character, and we learn good and bad from religion, etc. etc. I, on the other hand, think – good and bad we learn from our ancestors, and from our own experiences; religion has nothing to do with it. You might ask where our ancestors learned them from, in the first place. They learned good and bad from their ancestors' experiences, so on, and so forth. Most Chinese do not have any religion. When I asked a Chinese man - how most people there learn about good and bad without religion, he told me - they learn them from their elders' wisdoms. That's right; our ancestors transferred their knowledge and wisdom to us. Therefore, I truly believe – this world would have been a much better place without religion. Religions have divided us into many sectarian hateful clans, which are constantly fighting with one another.
 
Many of us believe that religious doctrines and dogmas are heavenly absolute entities. They forget that - many of those doctrines, dogmas, and interpretations have already been modified from the original preaching during emancipation. For example, Old Testament has been replaced by the New Testament, many Quranic interpretations have been changed, and many Vedic/Puranic practices and interpretations have been changed, etc., etc. That means - religious teachings and practices are subject to change with the time, which means they are not so heavenly endowments as we believe them to be. This is a critical point to remember. Those who think otherwise are the menaces in the society.
 
Jiten Roy



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