Right Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty.
If anyone thinks we need more security and protection at schools not less, I am with him. But security in school does not have to be mutually exclusive idea of stricter gun laws for the country as a whole.
As I pointed out (in my article), the US homicide rates are 6.9 times higher than rates in similar countries. For example, Gun-homicide rate per capita in the US is almost 30 times that of Britain and Australia, 10 times that of India, and 4 times that of Switzerland. Nobody will say that the USA contains 30 times more crazy people compared to Britain. However, what the US actually has is easy access to guns.
Something is definitely fundamentally wrong in the USA when we see those statistics. I cited an example from Singapore where I lived for more than eight years and I have seen how the stricter gun-laws prohibited mass killings. I mentioned about an incident as well that just happened few hours ago when a 36-year-old man attacked 22 children at a primary school in China. None of the kids died from that incident since the man in China was only carrying a knife. Imagine what would have happened if he could get a semiautomatic rifle as easily as Adam Lanza could. I can give an example from Japan too --
A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths:
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/
Some points to ponder from the article :
âœwhat about the country at the other end of the spectrum? What is the role of guns in Japan, the developed worldâ™s least firearm-filled nation and perhaps its strictest controller? In 2008, the U.S. had over 12 thousand firearm-related homicides. All of Japan experienced only 11, fewer than were killed at the Aurora shooting aloneâ¦.
Almost no one in Japan owns a gun. Most kinds are illegal, with onerous restrictions on buying and maintaining the few that are allowed. Even the countryâ™s infamous, mafia-like Yakuza tend to forgo guns; the few exceptions tend to become big national news stories.â
I am not saying every crime will abruptly get resolved if you apply stricter gun control laws. But when you see fifteen of the worst twenty-five mass shootings in the past half century have occurred in the U.S., then you should think twice before defending existing laws. As Michael R. Bloomberg already pointed out something like 48,000 Americans will be killed with illegal guns in the next yearâ if you do not change the law which I think, definitely inspire gun violence.
Avijit
--- In mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@...> wrote:
>
> More security and protection in school will mean more gun sales. It is American Rifle Association's pet idea. Total ban will be unconstitutional and probably undesirable at this time, but restriction of kinds of fire arms a private individual should be allowed to possess legally is not. All loopholes in the licensing, registration, and trades have not inly to be removed, the processes have to be made stricter also. The government should at least achieve this much in the near future.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 1, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...> wrote:
>
> > Gun-culture in the USA is going to be hard for people, like me, to understand as I came to this country from a place, where civilians have no right to bear or own arms; only criminals in the society have arms. I do not understand why it is a sport to hunt animals or be a member of the shooting range. I do not understand why no one complains about violent video games and movies, which fill young impressionable minds with violent outbursts, and make them insensitive to violence and killing. I do not understand why people buy or own so many high power-firearms for personal protections. I do not understand why President cannot halt assault weapon sell to the public right away using his executive power, if he is so touched by the recent event in Connecticut. I do not understand why he is asking senators and congressmen, who are influenced by lobbyist, to do it. I do not understand the cowboy culture in America. So, it is easy for me to ask for the ban of these weapons.
> >
> > I know President said when he was first elected to the office that he wanted to see a strong civilian force as powerful as military, if not more. Do we know what did he mean? He wanted to arm civilians for what, except to fight ideological battle or for personal protection? I know - he did not do it, but - that was the intent. I smelt Pol Pot or Stalin or Mao Tse Tung in the intent of the President, and millions of Americans do so.
> >
> > I believe - banning firearm-ownership will only disarm civilians and empower culprits. Havenâ™t we banned drugs already? Why do we still see thousands of drug related deaths and violence on the street? Now we are begging for legalizing drug. Have we thought about it? I see civilians are ready to surrender their rights, but culprits are not. Have we thought about it?
> >
> > I know �" tragedy happened in Connecticut, but is gun control the solution? Donâ™t we have laws against access to firearms for mentally challenged people? That did not stop this psychopath to get access to the firearms. I think - we need more security and protection at schools, not less.
> >
> > Jiten Roy
> >
> > --- On Mon, 12/31/12, Avijit Roy <charbak_bd@...> wrote:
> >
> > From: Avijit Roy <charbak_bd@...>
> > Subject: [mukto-mona] Gun Control in the USA: Time to Make It Happen
> > To: "Mukto-mona YahooGroups" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Monday, December 31, 2012, 2:21 PM
> >
> >
> > I wrote a blog just after the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School on the necessity of Gun control in the USA:
> >
> > [Just after the Shikh Temple massacre in Wisconsin a few months ago, Time Magazine published an article titled 'The Case for Gun Control', where the author Fareed Zakaria made a strong case in favor of stricter gun control laws. Although he offered valuable insight concerning the topic, the masses paid him little attention after the media revealed that he had plagiarized a portion of the article.
> >
> > Since then, two more major massacres have taken place. Of them, the recent one was the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School that occurred earlier this month in Newtown, Connecticut, where a man armed with two semiautomatic pistols killed 7 adults and 20 children, most of whom were only six years old. ] Read more from here:
> >
> > http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=1564
> >
> > I am glad to see that the modified version has also been appeared in NFB today:
> >
> > http://bangladesh-web.com/new/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5829:gun-control-in-the-usa-time-to-make-it-happen&catid=39:highlights&Itemid=438
> >
> > Regards
> > Avijit
> >
>
------------------------------------
****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration:
Call For Articles:
http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68
http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585
****************************************************
VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/
****************************************************
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
-Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/
<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional
<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/join
(Yahoo! ID required)
<*> To change settings via email:
mukto-mona-digest@yahoogroups.com
mukto-mona-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
mukto-mona-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Tuesday, January 1, 2013
[mukto-mona] Re: Gun Control in the USA: Time to Make It Happen
Re: [mukto-mona] Questions of God and Eternity
All right, what's the eternity? Eternity is the world where a living being goes after death. It's eternity, because they will remain there forever. George Washington died more than 200 years ago. Even though his physical being is perished, we know nothing about what happened to him after death. But, he is still with us, meaning he has entered in an eternal world from our frame of reference, where he will remain forever. Our loved ones also enter into that eternal world after death. Jiten Roy --- On Tue, 1/1/13, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
|
__._,_.___
****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration:
Call For Articles:
http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68
http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585
****************************************************
VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/
****************************************************
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
-Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
__,_._,___
Re: [mukto-mona] Questions of God and Eternity
One example of how faith influences science is the spectrum of sunlight as described by Sir Isaac Newton. Nobody with common sense would find a difference between Blue and Indigo, but Newton did. I suppose, he was deeply influenced by his heretic faith of Christian faith called Arian heresy. He believed in the existence of seven heavens in which seven archangels sang religious songs, and probably as the light emitted by them reached the surface of earth, it became white(or colorless). Religion is primitive science based mainly on cosmology and herbal therapy. Mesopotamian civilization, in spite of being an advanced one compared to that of the Egyptians, did not need an afterlife and God(s) who would behave like a tyrant king, but the Egyptians needed such a creation of the priest king named Menes.
I believe you misread my comments. What I said is - how scientific assumptions can cross over to faith. Let me give you an example, some scientists believe in the man-made global warming theory, and when data did not support their belief, they manipulated data to stick to their belief. That's how science crosses over to faith.
Now, what is eternity? It's a big unknown, isn't it? Anytime you face an unknown, you are apprehensive about it, that's what I call a fear of the unknown. As you board a plane, you are apprehensive about what's lying ahead. This is a natural psychological response. Eternity is one such unknown. It is quite natural to wonder about the eternity. As we approach it - we get apprehensive about it. It's a fact. Isn't it? What's unscientific about the fear of eternity? I don't get it. Why are you thinking about punishment or reward? I am not talking about it? I am talking about psychological response to the eternity, which is natural, if not scientific. Isn't it?
I think - you are trying to establish something that you already believe in, which I call faith-based discussion. Under this situation, you will not conceive alternative argument.
Jiten Roy
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Questions of God and Eternity
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, December 31, 2012, 7:54 AMIt may not be proper to use faith in the context of science. Science uses assumption, axiom, postulate, and hypothesis. But all of these are not wild guesses or imaginations. It is true that no formal proofs are offered, but they can be obvious and theories bases on these can have prediction capabilities. It follows the so called scientific method.Eternity of human life can be a philosophical proposition not a scientific one. So if you say that you have fear of eternity, then you are saying this on the basis of faith. Fear, right path, etc. cannot be scientific constructs, they can well fit into a religion--Godless or without God. Right path is a relative term and can be an important topic in ethics and moral philosophy.You have decided on your right path and as a matter of fact we all do. These are obviously important for an individual and the society he belongs to, but this is beyond the jurisdiction of science.
Sent from my iPhone
Assumption becomes faith when it is considered as truth, without any evidence. Scientists often assume (hypothesize) something, then investigate about its validity or truth. If they fail to validate, and yet believe in it, that becomes a faith.
There is another kind of assumption, in which a model is assumed which helps explain some unknown phenomena. If someone thinks that the model is the truth, and asks others to accept it - it becomes his faith. God and eternity are such phenomenological models to explain some unknowns. A scientist can assume these concepts if they help him understand those unknowns. Models can be physical structures or mathematical expressions. Therefore, if models have physical structures, they can be understood in a physical sense, as the concept of Gods and Goddesses in idols.
Fear of eternity/unknown is always with us. Such fears keep us in line. Some people can easily overcome fear of eternity or unknown, and can do certain things that most others can't imagine.
Jiten Roy
--- On Sun, 12/30/12, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, December 30, 2012, 9:13 AM
Fear of Unknown eternity? My humble question: Can a scientist believe in eternity in the physical sense? What is this fear about? Is it about any punishment that you may have to face? If this is so, then what are the remedies? Good works? Don't all these boil down to a concept of faith?
Sent from my iPhone
I don't know if my belief in God is circumstantial or what; it could be due to the fear of unknown eternity also. But, one thing I know for sure – I have no fear of God, if you are asking about that. I try to do everything right; that's all. Some people believe in almighty God, yet always claim to be victims of aggression from others.
Anyway, I don't dwell on the existence of God or its form, because I find the concept as a very powerful psychological sanctuary. The existence of God is less important when it's a conceptual entity. So, I leave it alone, and do not feel the need to abandon the idea of God. Instead, I feel strongly that - we should abandon the concept of religion altogether, which is nothing but exploitation of the image of God to serve the petty interests of religion-peddlers on this earth.
It's also not about which scientist believes in what; they are as clueless about God as any one of us. It's really a matter of personal choice. Many people do not need the concept of God, that's fine - as long as they do the right things.
Jiten Roy
--- On Fri, 12/28/12, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, December 28, 2012, 11:06 AM
Thanks. Virtually I don't see any difference between your "prayer" and a non-believer's "wish" for some thing. Fear factor probably is absent in your belief, I suppose. You would know better.Any way, recently Higgs (predictor of the so called God particle/Goddam particle or technically called Higgs-Boson), despite he himself being a non-believer has called Richard Dawkins a fundamentalist. Dawkins himself has said that an evangelical and he himself can be matched, but the former would not revise his belief in theological theories in creationism while he will do so with the new scientific and experimental evidences.The other day we saw the results of a survey according to which many great scientists have admitted to be believers. It is hard if not impossible to overcome the belief that has been in our psyche for centuries. Are yourself not a victim of this?Interestingly the Nobel Laureate physicist who coined the term "God particle" preferred the name "Goddam particle" but the latter was not acceptable to the publisher of the book he wrote.Sent from my iPhone
" How do you use your God? Meditate on Him? If yes, how? Any rituals? And why do you need it any way? Do you pray? And if yes, what are your prayers? I mean what do you pray for?" I use God whenever I need it for psychological support. I do not pray without specific need, and there is no special language or verse for prayer.Someone was about to die of lung cancer. When the news spread, people arranged a mass-prayer session in the a temple. They asked me to join the prayer, and I did. About 200 people gathered in the temple. Everybody was praying for his recovery from this dreadful disease. I was hoping that at least someone in the crowd will be able to draw the attention of God through his/her prayer, and a miracle will occur. Two days later, I heard the news of his death.
In my view - prayer is for psychological help only. Those who attended prayer felt that they have done something for that person at the time of his need; that helped them console themselves after his death.
Jiten Roy
--- On Wed, 12/26/12, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 26, 2012, 9:04 AM
By the word "creed" Jung may have meant what is commonly known as "organized religion". Even those who belong to an organized religion may have quite different images or ideas of God. My father and mother, for example, had different constructs of God. While my father's connection to a God was mostly mystical and spiritual, my mother's one was a mixture of mysticism and prayers for some mundane benefits.May I ask you some personal questions? How do you use your God? Meditate on Him? If yes, how? Any rituals? And why do you need it any way? Do you pray? And if yes, what are your prayers? I mean what do you pray for?I know even atheists pray or wish for things.Sent from my iPhone
"But how do you distinguish this customized God from a God, for example, a specific religion? And why should one prefer a customized God to a God that he has acquired through social training?"Well, I said make your own God because - the image of God that comes through the social training comes with a baggage, called religion. And, religions are divisive phenomena, to all in our societies, but not God, at least to most people.Jiten Roy
--- On Tue, 12/25/12, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Ab
__._,_.___
****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration:
Call For Articles:
http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68
http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585
****************************************************
VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/
****************************************************
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
-Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190
Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
__,_._,___
Re: [mukto-mona] Questions of God and Eternity
Sent from my iPhone
I believe you misread my comments. What I said is - how scientific assumptions can cross over to faith. Let me give you an example, some scientists believe in the man-made global warming theory, and when data did not support their belief, they manipulated data to stick to their belief. That's how science crosses over to faith.
Now, what is eternity? It's a big unknown, isn't it? Anytime you face an unknown, you are apprehensive about it, that's what I call a fear of the unknown. As you board a plane, you are apprehensive about what's lying ahead. This is a natural psychological response. Eternity is one such unknown. It is quite natural to wonder about the eternity. As we approach it - we get apprehensive about it. It's a fact. Isn't it? What's unscientific about the fear of eternity? I don't get it. Why are you thinking about punishment or reward? I am not talking about it? I am talking about psychological response to the eternity, which is natural, if not scientific. Isn't it?
I think - you are trying to establish something that you already believe in, which I call faith-based discussion. Under this situation, you will not conceive alternative argument.
Jiten Roy
--- On Mon, 12/31/12, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Questions of God and Eternity
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, December 31, 2012, 7:54 AMIt may not be proper to use faith in the context of science. Science uses assumption, axiom, postulate, and hypothesis. But all of these are not wild guesses or imaginations. It is true that no formal proofs are offered, but they can be obvious and theories bases on these can have prediction capabilities. It follows the so called scientific method.Eternity of human life can be a philosophical proposition not a scientific one. So if you say that you have fear of eternity, then you are saying this on the basis of faith. Fear, right path, etc. cannot be scientific constructs, they can well fit into a religion--Godless or without God. Right path is a relative term and can be an important topic in ethics and moral philosophy.You have decided on your right path and as a matter of fact we all do. These are obviously important for an individual and the society he belongs to, but this is beyond the jurisdiction of science.
Sent from my iPhone
Assumption becomes faith when it is considered as truth, without any evidence. Scientists often assume (hypothesize) something, then investigate about its validity or truth. If they fail to validate, and yet believe in it, that becomes a faith.
There is another kind of assumption, in which a model is assumed which helps explain some unknown phenomena. If someone thinks that the model is the truth, and asks others to accept it - it becomes his faith. God and eternity are such phenomenological models to explain some unknowns. A scientist can assume these concepts if they help him understand those unknowns. Models can be physical structures or mathematical expressions. Therefore, if models have physical structures, they can be understood in a physical sense, as the concept of Gods and Goddesses in idols.
Fear of eternity/unknown is always with us. Such fears keep us in line. Some people can easily overcome fear of eternity or unknown, and can do certain things that most others can't imagine.
Jiten Roy
--- On Sun, 12/30/12, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, December 30, 2012, 9:13 AM
Fear of Unknown eternity? My humble question: Can a scientist believe in eternity in the physical sense? What is this fear about? Is it about any punishment that you may have to face? If this is so, then what are the remedies? Good works? Don't all these boil down to a concept of faith?
Sent from my iPhone
I don't know if my belief in God is circumstantial or what; it could be due to the fear of unknown eternity also. But, one thing I know for sure – I have no fear of God, if you are asking about that. I try to do everything right; that's all. Some people believe in almighty God, yet always claim to be victims of aggression from others.
Anyway, I don't dwell on the existence of God or its form, because I find the concept as a very powerful psychological sanctuary. The existence of God is less important when it's a conceptual entity. So, I leave it alone, and do not feel the need to abandon the idea of God. Instead, I feel strongly that - we should abandon the concept of religion altogether, which is nothing but exploitation of the image of God to serve the petty interests of religion-peddlers on this earth.
It's also not about which scientist believes in what; they are as clueless about God as any one of us. It's really a matter of personal choice. Many people do not need the concept of God, that's fine - as long as they do the right things.
Jiten Roy
--- On Fri, 12/28/12, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, December 28, 2012, 11:06 AM
Thanks. Virtually I don't see any difference between your "prayer" and a non-believer's "wish" for some thing. Fear factor probably is absent in your belief, I suppose. You would know better.Any way, recently Higgs (predictor of the so called God particle/Goddam particle or technically called Higgs-Boson), despite he himself being a non-believer has called Richard Dawkins a fundamentalist. Dawkins himself has said that an evangelical and he himself can be matched, but the former would not revise his belief in theological theories in creationism while he will do so with the new scientific and experimental evidences.The other day we saw the results of a survey according to which many great scientists have admitted to be believers. It is hard if not impossible to overcome the belief that has been in our psyche for centuries. Are yourself not a victim of this?Interestingly the Nobel Laureate physicist who coined the term "God particle" preferred the name "Goddam particle" but the latter was not acceptable to the publisher of the book he wrote.Sent from my iPhone
" How do you use your God? Meditate on Him? If yes, how? Any rituals? And why do you need it any way? Do you pray? And if yes, what are your prayers? I mean what do you pray for?" I use God whenever I need it for psychological support. I do not pray without specific need, and there is no special language or verse for prayer.Someone was about to die of lung cancer. When the news spread, people arranged a mass-prayer session in the a temple. They asked me to join the prayer, and I did. About 200 people gathered in the temple. Everybody was praying for his recovery from this dreadful disease. I was hoping that at least someone in the crowd will be able to draw the attention of God through his/her prayer, and a miracle will occur. Two days later, I heard the news of his death.
In my view - prayer is for psychological help only. Those who a
__._,_.___
****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration:
Call For Articles:
http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68
http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585
****************************************************
VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/
****************************************************
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
-Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
__,_._,___