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Saturday, January 31, 2015

RE: [mukto-mona] Saraswati Puja at Bangladesh Parliament



"Where are the Muslims.....? They are not ready for democracy"
Its not a communal comment? We should forgive the commentator for the sake of democracy, though who is longing for democracy without respecting others particularly the majorities in the country.
 
For some people understanding the grass root democracy is far fetched when he/she reduced him/herself to communal smallness.  

From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 03:34:34 +0000
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Saraswati Puja at Bangladesh Parliament

 
"Majority must be granted" is a bad motto when the majority does not understand/recognize the human/citizenship rights of individual citizens. For example, each citizen has a right to see that the parliament premise respects him as much as it respects any other citizen of the country. In other words, if one's religion is to be celebrated there, then each individual's religion has a right to be celebrated there.
 
To talk a bit harshly, where the Muslims are in the majority in the world, they are not ready for democracy; because they have not learned how to respect the non-Muslims.
 
SuBain
 
=============================================
 


On Thursday, January 29, 2015 6:23 PM, "Mohammad Mushrafi mushrafi@hotmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
With due respect to all religions,  the parliament is the temple of democracy.  The majority must be granted.  If have any doubt, then put to the litmus test of current or any issue.  do a survey, online, on TV or any kind. The democratic decision will come out.
 
The secularism, the spirituality, the religiosity , the mysticism the liberalism all are high sounding catch words indeed and all those exist in human society for long time.. But real life comes first, the day to day life practices comes first, the norms of lives in any society comes first. The ever evolving social changes comes on its own pace. A political decision in the parliament, a constitutional amendment does not change those norms over night.  
 

To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 03:23:10 +0000
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Saraswati Puja at Bangladesh Parliament

 
Secularism means equal treatment for all religions, which can be achieved - 1) by showing indifference to all religions, or 2) giving equal treatment to all religions. Bangladesh won't be able to meet condition 1 ever; so, the best we can expect is equal treatment of all religions.
Jiten Roy


From: "Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Saraswati Puja at Bangladesh Parliament

 
True, secularism is to discourage all religions; and I never suggested that by allowing Saraswati Puja at the parliament premises Bangladesh was promoting secularism. What I suggested was that by allowing that event there, Bangladesh would be showing respect for the Hindu citizens of that country, much like what it has been doing to an extent for the Christians and overwhelmingly for the Muslims. Of course, one can paraphrase Shah Deelder's words like "why do the Hindus need respect?"
 
In any case, Bangladesh is not secular. The way madrassas and mosques have been growing there, the country is going in the backward direction from secularism. One way to make some improvements wound be to encourage the Muslims to think that the non-Muslims are also part of Bangladesh.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
===================================================


On Wednesday, January 28, 2015 2:56 AM, "Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Secularism is not to encourage all religions. It is to discourage them all.

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 28, 2015, at 8:08 AM, "Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
This was an odd idea to begin with and as expected it failed to materialize for very obvious reasons. Look, anything that promotes Hindu,Budhist or Christian traditions would be unpalatable for many Bangladeshis.This is not new. I am not sure why Hindu members even bother to propose such event at the parliament? How that makes Bangladesh more secular and tolerant? Do these people live in the bubble?
-SD


On Tuesday, January 27, 2015 8:04 PM, "Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
 

{Postscript from the Author (January 27, 2015): It is a great disappointment that in spite of the initial consent by the Prime Minister and approval by the Speaker, there was actually no Saraswati Puja at the Bangladesh Parliament. I am not sure why the big leaders' approvals were not implemented. But there is no doubt that this reneging pleases and supports the Islamic/Muslim hate-mongers of Bangladesh.}













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Posted by: Mohammad Mushrafi <mushrafi@hotmail.com>


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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





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Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: মুক্তচিন্তা ; আমার ধর্মভাবনা



Mr. Chakraborty,

You amaze me all the time with your thoughts.

You said:" Religious preaching kind of stuff should not belong here."

Where did you find religious preaching here? It's all about anti-conventional religious beliefs. Did you read the article? I guess not.

What I wrote is - all Gods and Goddesses are fictional characters; did you miss that also? Fictional texts do not need scientific validity. 

I said before, and saying it again, religion needs God, but God does not need religion. Try to think what that means.

"God (again if one exists) has no time to think about silly things! Why not?"

Because he has to think about entire universe (if he exists). 

Let your grandma believe whatever she wants.

Jiten Roy
 

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: মুক্তচিন্তা ; আমার ধর্মভাবনা

 
This is muktomona. This probably does not imply that one should say freely whatever he or she has in his or her mind. One key element should be rationality and the other one is scientific outlook. Religious preaching kind of stuff should not belong here. 

Few questions. How do we know that all living beings are equal in the eyes of God (if one exists). 

Prayers alone cannot change fate! Do prayers have any positive effect at all however insignificant it may be on a human's fate? 

Religion is a business. But is believing in God not part of religion? 

Study of the history of religious thoughts and mythologies should be much more rational than being presented here. There is obviously no scientific relation between the belly button of Lord Brahma and a black hole. Trust me our ancient sages had no clue about the creation of the universe or the multiverse. One may however at best draw an analogy between a black hole and Brahma's belly button. Glorifying a religion by raising it to the status of science will not sell well among the muktomonas. I know you are not doing it, but one may have wrong impression by the words you have written down. 

God (again if one exists) has no time to think about silly things! Why not? It all depends on how you define your God. My grand mom's God is very sensitive (that's what she believes) to her needs. That's the only reason why she prays, she fasts, and she thinks that my grandpa deserves more rights than she does. 

Sent from my iPhone



On Jan 31, 2015, at 11:57 AM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Nice article!

Although human slowly separated themselves from the animal kingdom through evolutionary processes, but could not escape from some of the basic God-given  characteristics of the animal kingdom. For example, human needs to strive to survive, as animals do. In the eye of God, all living beings are equal.  
So, no matter how many times we pray to God, he cannot change things for us alone. If prayer could change anything, nobody will strive to do good things; they will pray instead, and no one could prosper without a prayer at all. It's that simple.
Religion is a business, which some smart people thought about thousands of years ago. They were surely smarter than billions of gullible people rooming around today, who are constantly striving to go back to the lives of thousands of years ago.
Hindu religious scriptures were written basically by assigning human characters, such as kings and queens, to some planets and stars, and they became Gods and Goddesses in the fictional stories, Hindus consider as religious texts. I sometimes watch a series, called Ma Durga, run by eTV, where it shows clearly the role of each kings and queens. Once King Indra was sick, due to a curse ( or virus), and there was no moon on the sky for many days; people were worried. Brahma is the supreme creator, who created everything through his navel (belly-button), which, I believe, was the representation of the black-hole. Please don't ask me how they had the knowledge of black-hole; may be just a coincidence. I am not claiming scientific validity of those texts, I called fictional tales. The point is - I can see these relationships, but millions of gullible Hindus can't. They can't because they are afraid to deviate from what they have been told by their forefathers.

You are right – God has no time to think about silly things, like how many marriages can human do or not, or what is the proper way to punish (stoning or imprisonment) a woman, who is engaged in an affair, deemed illegal by a society, or how to punish someone who is not following your own religion, etc.

I am glad you have proper religious uplifting, mainly through your own initiatives. Actually, you have the right religion, that is - being a right human being. I wonder – why others can't do so.  
Jiten Roy

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "hoque hoquekazishahidul@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona-noreply@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Cc: mukto-mona-owner@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 4:15 AM
Subject: মুক্তচিন্তা ; আমার ধর্মভাবনা




<u09AEu09C1u0995u09CDu09A4 u099Au09BFu09A8u09CDu09A4u09BE.doc;u0986u09AEu09BEu09B0 u09A7u09B0u09CDu09AE u09ADu09BEu09ACu09A8u09BE.doc>




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Posted by: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>


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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





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Re: [mukto-mona] [মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ] 'গায়েবানা জানাজা ও দোয়া মাহফিল- এ তামাশা বন্ধ করুন ?'



Please read less and less acceptable. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 31, 2015, at 12:57 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Being stubborn may not help the current government. Rather it may not only deepen the crisis, it will potentially make AL less and less unacceptable to the people. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 31, 2015, at 10:54 AM, WordPress মুক্তমন@vps5925.inmotionhosting.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ has posted a new item,
'গায়েবানা জানাজা ও দোয়া
মাহফিল- এ তামাশা বন্ধ করুন ?'

দেশের মানুষ পুড়ছে আগুনে।
পেট্রোল বোমা ও ককটেল ছুড়ে মারা
হচ্ছে সাধারণ মানুষ কিংবা
মনুষ্যবাহী যানবাহনকে লক্ষ্য
করে। আগুনে দগ্ধ মানুষ-কেউ
অক্কা পাচ্ছে অকালে, আর কেউ
অসহ্য যন্ত্রণায় কাতরাচ্ছে
মেডিকেল হাসপাতালের বার্ণ
ইউনিটে-প্রহর গুণছে আসন্ন
মৃত্যুর।

আমাদের জনদরদী
নেতা-নেত্রীরা-যারা সুশোভিত
শীততাপ নিয়ন্ত্রিত বাসায়
কিংবা অফিস কক্ষে বসে এসব
লোমহর্ষক দৃশ্য উপভোগ করছেন
নিরুদ্বেগে-এসব গণহত্যার [...]

You may view the latest post at
http://mukto-mona.com/bangla_blog/?p=44303

You received this e-mail because you asked to be notified when new updates are
posted.

Best regards,
মুক্তমনা বাংলা ব্লগ ।



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Posted by: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





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Re: [mukto-mona] DDD 228. শিষ্টাচ : বাচ্চাল



All party conference to ban JI? You must be joking!
 



On Saturday, January 31, 2015 1:06 PM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Government must stop Jamati propaganda. Sure. The great question is how it can be done democratically. JI has been playing actively in the democratic field of Bangladesh ever since it was given license to do politics in BD by Ziaur Rahman(?). All the major parties used JI as and when needed. It is a shame for the nation that BNP made them ministers with important portfolio. Many people are suggesting that JI be banned. No decision has yet been taken in the parliament. Rather it looks like AL is playing the politics of appeasement when it comes to trial of war criminals and implementation of the verdicts. 

I suggest that there be an all -party conference to discuss the issue of banning JI. A party which opposed the freedom of Bangladesh actively and criminally should not be allowed to operate in Bangladesh. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 31, 2015, at 8:00 AM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Bangladesh cannot prosper without strict ideals of secularism. It is difficult to sell secularism among illiterate people, but easy to sell Jamati-propaganda. If government allows Jamati-propaganda, in the name of democracy, it will pollute the mindset of the ordinary people very easily, and there will be no secularism in the country ever. So, Bangladesh government needs to be strict on its principle of secularism, otherwise country will go down the Pakistani route very soon.
The sign is already visible now. Just look at BNP/Jamat peaceful political movement. If this is called the peaceful movement, what is terrorism?
Jiten Roy

 

From: "ANISUR RAHMAN anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 4:35 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] DDD 228. শিষ্টাচ : বাচ্চাল

 
Naya Diganta is a Jamaati newspaper. So, what you will get there is Jamaati propaganda.

- AR 




From: "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, 30 January 2015, 23:24
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] DDD 228. শিষ্টাচ : বাচ্চাল

 
Is it a large tanker or a small tanker?

From: "Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2015 3:47 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] DDD 228. শিষ্টাচ : বাচ্চাল

 
Think tanker?
On Jan 29, 2015 9:03 AM, "mk haque mk_haque@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from mk haque mk_haque@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] included below]
DDD 228. শিষ্টাচারের নসিহত : বাচ্চালোগ তালিয়া বাজাও
Dhaka Daily Dish, 228th Issue, 28th Jan '15
 
Dear All
Late Arafat Rahman was absolutely a non-political person.  But for
being from a political family– his death has also become a pawn in
power play of Bangladesh.  This issue, instead of bringing the two  
"Begums" nearer, as expected by some wishful thinkers, may take
them far apart on political platform.  That is what Mr Farhad Mazhar,
a prominent n respectable socio-political think tanker of Bangladesh,
apprehended in his feature placed in today's DDD.  As space was
there, his imm recent past feature is also added here, which was
printed in Naya Diganta also.  Both are thought generating. Thanks.
Haque, Lowell, MA, USA.
 
শিষ্টাচারের নসিহত : বাচ্চালোগ তালিয়া বাজাও
ফরহাদ মজহার, ২৭ জানুয়ারি ২০১৫, Naya Diganta, Post Editorial                        
আরাফাত রহমান কোকোর অকালমৃত্যুর পর এখন দেখছি এই শহুরে শিক্ষ তি এলিটরা
হঠাৎ দুই ব্যাটলিং বেগমকে মা জননী ডাকতে শুরু করেছে। এই এক বিচিত্র নাটক।
এক সন্তানের জননী নাকি শোকে কাতর আরেক মা জননীকে দেখতে ছুটে গিয়েছিলেন ,
কিন্তু সন্তানহারা শোকার্ত জননী গেটের দরজা খোলেননি , ফলে এলিটদের মহা অভিমান
হয়েছে। ক্ষ মতাবান মা কত মহানুভব সেই কাঁদুনি শুনতে শুনতে ইতোমধ্যে কান ঝালা
পালা হয়ে যাবার জোগাড়। আর মন্দ মা হলেন তিনি যিনি সবে সন্তান হারিয়েছেন।
শুধু তাঁর নিজের সন্তান নয় , হারিয়েছেন আরো সন্তান। হামলা মামলা তো আছেই , যৌথ
অভিযানে তার জোটের নেতাকর্মীদের গুম করা হচ্ছে , যাদের অনেকের লাশই খুঁজে পাওয়া
যাচ্ছে না। গুলি তো চলছেই , তার পরও যাদের দেখা মাত্রই গুলি করবে বলে ইতোমধ্যে
বিজিবি প্রধান ঘোষণা করেছেন। সমাজকল্যাণমন্ত্রী ঘোষণা দিচ্ছেন , সংসদ সদস্যরা
চিৎকার করে সরকার কঠোর হবার দাবি করছেন। আঙুল নাচিয়ে বলা হচ্ছে তাকে টেনে -
হিঁচড়ে ঘর থেকে বের করে গ্রেফতার করা হবে। তার পরও ডায়লগ চাই। ডায়লগ । …..
 
সরকারের পতন আসন্নফরহাদ মজহারের মত 
17 Jan, 2015,  BDNews24.com, NY, USA.
আওয়ামী লীগ সরকারের পতন 'আসন্ন' বলে মত প্রকাশ করেছেন বিশিষ্ট রাজনৈতিক
বিশ্লেষক ফরহাদ মজহার। তিনি লিখেছেনসাধারণ মানুষযারা সরকারের পক্ষে নন
কিন্তু সরাসরি আন্দোলন সংগ্রামেও নাইতারা কিছুটা বিভ্রান্ত বটে। সরকার ক্রমে সব
নিয়ন্ত্রণে নিয়ে আসছে এই প্রপাগান্ডায় অনেকের মনে একটি দ্বিধান্বিত প্রশ্ন আছে যেএই
সরকারের পতন ঘটবে কি ?  উত্তর : অবশ্যই। সেটা আসন্নই বলা যায়।'  ……..












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Posted by: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





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