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Thursday, August 8, 2013

Re: [mukto-mona] Should Hindu Nationalist Narendra Modi Be Allowed a U.S. Visa ?

Here are my two cents on this.
 
If Modi instructed his followers to commit atrocities against the Muslims, or if he incited the 2002 riots in Gujarat, the Indian legal system surely would have punished him already. Did his administration fail to stop the riots before much harm? Sure. Did some of the riot inciters and executors get punished when Modi was in power in Gujarat. Sure; hundreds of Hindu criminals were killed by police firing during the riots, and one MP was imprisoned for 28 years via the Indian legal system after the riots.
 
Now compare that with Khaleda and Hasina of Bangladesh. Did they instruct/incite Muslim criminals to commit one-sided atrocities against Hindus in 2001 and against Buddhists in 2012? Probably not. Did their administrations fail to stop the atrocities before much harm? Sure. Did any of the Muslim criminals get any punishment when they were/are in power? No.
 
Now make your honest judgment as to how good Modi, Khaleda and Hasina have been in terms of caring about the dignity, safety and rights of the religious minorities in their respective jurisdictions.
 
Bangladeshi Muslims should be too ashamed to criticize Modi, if they have any sense of honor and shame.
 
SuBain
 
=========================================

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Should Hindu Nationalist Narendra Modi Be Allowed a U.S. Visa ?
 
I always possess the opinion of freeing the political field from criminals.  Something that rarely happens.  Modi has been exonerated by Indian legal system.  Criminals of Calcutta riots had H. S. Suhrawardy at the top of the list and he did not even face the court.  Can a few Islamist from Bangladesh/Pakistan and a rotten opportunist from Cambridge, Mass. prevent Modi from being elected.  Apparently, he is so popular that even Rahul Gandhi refuses to campaign against him.
On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 10:54 AM, SyedAslam <Syed.Aslam3@gmail.com> wrote:
 

Please read following post by Great Freethinker Kamal Das: 

 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/message/34666

--- On Sat, 7/8/06, Kamal Das@yahoo.com <Kamal Das@yahoo.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Narendra Mody
WRT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/message/34612

Every political leader who adopts violence should be treated
as a criminal and put behind the bar, or hanged as justice metes out to
them.  Narendra Modi should be removed from power and tried in a civil court
for his inability to prevent riot, if even he hasn't participated in it.  Modi is no
hero.  He should be treated like those who initiated the Great Calcutta Killings 
in 1946.  Instead of being proud of Modi, Indians should consider him a liability 
and get rid of him.

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 8/7/13, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Should Hindu Nationalist Narendra Modi Be Allowed a U.S. Visa?
 Date: Wednesday, August 7, 2013, 9:09 PM
 
 Robert Spencer, a U.S. national and author of considerable reputation, is denied British visa for having doubted the historicity of Prophet Muhammad.  A documentary, "Death of a Princess" portraying life, love and death of a member of the Saudi royal family was initially banned by the PBS, and aired later after a lot of protests from free thinkers.  Such incidents prove  the power of Sunni Islam/petrodollars on the policy of the West.

Modi has better image than Yasir Arafat.  If he really gets elected as the Prime Minister of India, the U. S. Administration would love to reverse its policy towards him.


On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 4:50 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Let Indian Muslims and Hindus settle their problems of communality. India has enough of competent Muslims who are aware of their problems better than any of you, and are working for a resolution. They do not need solidarity from Bangladeshi people, who do not have clean history of communality of their own. So, Enough about Modi; we have thousands of Muslim-Modi's in Bangladesh, who also soaked their hands with the blood of thousands of innocent Hindus over the years.

Let's not forget so quickly - Major Zia, a Mukti-Joddhya, gave Presidency to Sah Aziz, a high ranking Pakistani collaborator within 3 years of independence, and, thereafter, his wife, Khaleda Zia, gave Ministry to many more Razakars in Bangladesh, who are top most communal elements in the society. When we have such an ugly communal history, shouldn't we look at our own image before we point out ugly images of others? Trust me - Indian Muslims are not such a vulnerable weak group of people, as you may think. Let's solve our own problems of communality. 

Please read this piece of news, if you don't mind:


Thanks.

Jiten Roy

From: SyedAslam <http://us-mg5.mail.yahoo.com/compose?to=Syed.Aslam3@gmail.com>
To: http://us-mg5.mail.yahoo.com/compose?to=mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2013 11:10 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Should Hindu Nationalist Narendra Modi Be Allowed a U.S. Visa?
Should Hindu Nationalist Narendra Modi Be Allowed a U.S. Visa?
by Shikha Dalmia Jul 31, 2013 4:45 AM EDT

Narendra Modi is a powerful Indian politician who could one day lead the country. He's also stoutly anti-Muslim—and banned from receiving a U.S. visa. Shikha Dalmia on the raging debate.

The big debate right now in America is whether to hand more visas to Indian techies who want to study or live in the United States. But the issue that dominated the news cycle in India last week concerned the visa of one man: Narendra Modi, the chief minister of the state of Gujarat, who wants to do neither.
Narendra Modi is a controversial figure, both in the U.S. and India. (Virendra Singh Gosai/Hindustan Times, via Gety)
Sixty-five members of the Indian Parliament—some of whom have since backtracked—released a letter they wrote to President Barack Obama urging him to maintain America's eight-year-old visa ban on Modi. The U.S., along with England and other Western countries, imposed the ban after human-rights groups implicated Modi in the 2002 massacre of Muslims in his state. (The Indian Supreme Court exonerated Modi a decade later, but by then many witnesses had been tampered with or died or killed.)
That year, Hindu mobs—some led by figures from Modi's own party, one of whom was eventually convicted—went on a revenge spree against Muslims for burning a train with Hindu pilgrims. They razed Muslim homes, raped Muslim women, and killed Muslim men.
However, when asked by Reuters a few weeks ago if he felt any remorse over the grisly events that unfolded on his watch, his response was: If your driver runs over a "kutte ka baccha"—a crude term for a puppy—you would obviously feel regret; it was a statement that simultaneously dodged responsibility and dehumanized Muslims.
The latest scandal dogging Modi involves the killing of a young Muslim woman with alleged links to Pakistani terrorists in a staged encounter with the Gujarati police.
But none of this has fazed Modi's solid fan base in the majority Hindu population that has made him the opposition BJP's (Bharatiya Janata Party) standard-bearer in next year's elections for prime minister.
Part of Modi's attraction is that, in sharp contrast to the incompetence, corruption, and intellectual bankruptcy of the ruling Congress Party, he is a man of vision—an able administrator who has done wonders for his state's economy. This is an image he feeds constantly. A month ago, a story floated by his PR firm about how he orchestrated the rescue of 15,000 people stranded in a flood zone, even as the Indian army struggled, caused a sensation among his followers. When media investigations proved that Modi's Rambo-like rescue could not possibly be true, they blamed not him but his political opponents for planting the story to embarrass him.
The latest scandal dogging Modi involves the killing of a young Muslim woman with alleged links to Pakistani terrorists in a staged encounter with the Gujarati police. Some of the accused cops have alleged that Modi knew and gave the encounter his blessing.
But the main reason Modi attracts worshipful Hindu throngs is his open contempt for Congress' ideology of secularism that, in his view, has balkanized the country by extending special favors to Muslims and other minorities to win their votes. That is not a baseless accusation. But what is Modi's solution? More balkanization. He proudly calls himself not just a nationalist but a Hindu nationalist. His insult-of-choice for Congress is that it wears a "burqa of secularism"—a thinly veiled reminder to Hindus that Modi represents their—not Muslim—interests.
But the question is: why does Modi covet an American visa, given that unabashed love for the motherland is a central plank of his politics? It is not because Modi is desperate to visit Disneyland. It is because the Hindu nationalist project involves not just changing the perception of Hinduism as a weak religion at home but abroad as well. India's economic success has given Hindus—especially the urban nouveau riche—a resurgent pride in their religion after enduring decades of digs about India's "Hindu rate of growth." They want Hinduism to be seen as the solution to the centuries of mess created by Muslim and British "foreign" rule. They want the world to regard India's success as synonymous with Hinduism.
Modi, a fire-brand Hindu, is perfect for the job—except that he can't do it so long as he remains a pariah on the international stage. Obtaining a U.S. visa is an important step in rehabilitating himself in the West.
All of this puts the United States in a difficult predicament. Should Modi become the elected prime minister of India next year, it would be awkward for the head of the world's most populous democracy—and an American ally—not to be able to travel to America. At that point, an ongoing ban will become a slap in the face not just of Modi and his backers, but of India.
However, removing the ban right now will whitewash his sins and make him more electable. A U.S. visa is not a travel permit; it is an international seal of approval, which is why his backers have been fiercely petitioning the State Department to grant it. The letter that Indian M.P.s wrote was an effort to exert counter-pressure and neutralize that campaign.
There are no good options but, all things considered, America should err on the side of not enhancing Modi's appeal right now—hoping that the core decency of the Indian people keeps this polarizing, saffron-robed figure (who won't wear greenbecause it is the color of Islam) out of New Delhi next year.
Like The Daily Beast on Facebook and follow us on Twitter for updates all day long.
Shikha Dalmia, a native of India and a Hindu, is a Reason Foundation Senior Analyst and a Reason magazine columnist.
For inquiries, please contact The Daily Beast at http://us-mg5.mail.yahoo.com/compose?to=editorial@thedailybeast.com

Shikha Dalmia RSS

Shikha Dalmia
Senior Analyst
Senior AnalystReason Foundationhttp://us-mg5.mail.yahoo.com/compose?to=shikha.dalmia@reason.orgClick Here for a High-Resolution Photo

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Bio

Shikha Dalmia is a senior policy analyst at Reason Foundation, a nonprofit think tank advancing free minds and free markets.
Dalmia is a Bloomberg View contributor, a columnist at the Washington Examiner, and writes regularly for Reason magazine. She is also a frequent contributor to the op-ed pages of The Wall Street Journal and numerous other publications such as the Los Angeles TimesNew York PostThe Weekly StandardBusiness Week, San Francisco Chronicle, and  the Chicago Tribune. She previously served as a columnist for Forbes.
Dalmia was co-winner of the first 2009 Bastiat Prize for Online Journalism for her columns in Forbes and Reason.  
From 1996 to 2004, Dalmia was as an award-winning editorial writer at the Detroit News, covering a variety of policy issues, including the environment, immigration, Social Security, welfare reform, health care and foreign policy. She also worked as a reporter for the Patriot, a national daily newspaper based in New Delhi, India, where she grew up and earned her B.S. degree in chemistry and biology from the University of Delhi.
Dalmia frequenlty appears on Fox Business Network and other television and radio outlets.
Dalmia, who taught news writing courses at Michigan State University, earned a Master's degree in mass communication from Louisiana State University. She also holds a post graduate diploma in journalism from the Indian Institute of Mass Communications.
She lives in the Detroit area with her husband and son.

Re: [mukto-mona] BNP Vs. BJP



The Statement"...BJP, being equivalent to BNP in Bangladesh" is a result
of supeficial overview of the political affairs of India and Bangladesh,
both from the historical & contemporay perspectives.
BJP is an ideologically motivated party with Agressive Hinduva at it's 
core.Whereas, BNP is essentially a party of the opportunists ......
Please read about BJP's agressive Hindutva based on "Hindu Jagriti"
from it's official web site:
Also Read:

Related:
  1. www.hindustantimes.com/.../BJP...Hindutva-ideology...
    Jul 6, 2013
    Slamming the BJP leader Amit Shah's promise to construct a huge Ram temple and Ayodhya, CPI leader D ...

As per my understanding, Hindutva is a divisive & sectarian ideology !
It is extreemly virulent, malignant and poisionous!

Syed Aslam

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Thu, 8/8/13, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] BNP Vs. BJP
 Date: Thursday, August 8, 2013, 7:54 PM

Yes, you are right about BJP, being equivalent to BNP in Bangladesh. While BNP has a communal tail, known as Jamat, BJP has RSS.

But, there are some differences between RSS and Jamat.

RSS is a non-political party, Jamat is a political party; RSS is a nationalist party, Jamat is not; Jamat fought against Bangladesh. RSS cannot participate in the national election directly, Jamat can. Also, RSS is not a religious party, Jamat is; Jamat openly trades religion for politics.
Only similarity between RSS and Jamat is – they are both communalist parties. 

Therefore, if we criticize BJP, as being a communal party, we must also criticize BNP as a communal party. Similarly, if we criticize Modi, being a communal person, we must also criticize Major Zia, Begum Zia, and Ershad as communal persons; they all have shown complicity during communal violence in their reins. Even Sheikh Hashina has shown complicity recently during the communal violence in Hazarihat, Chittagong. She should be condemned as a communal person also. We need to be consistent; that's all.

Also we should recognize that – communalism is on the rise around the world. In my view, it is so in order to counter Islamist communality around the world. In other words, rising Islamist communality is breeding other forms of communalities everywhere, even in the Western secular nations, such as, USA, Canada, Europe, Australia, etc. India cannot be an exception to this. 

Politics is not a child's game. Some people may feel good by blocking Modi from entering USA, but, they should also know - it has increased Modi's popularity among Hindutavadis in India. He has been using this situation in his favor; more and more Hindu nationalists are joining his camp every day. If Modi becomes PM of India, USA will not hesitate to embrace him as an ally in their fight against Islamists. Do you remember – USA used to support Taliban to fight communists? Politics make strange bed-fellows, isn't it?

Jiten Roy


From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2013 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona]

 
I see similarity between Congress and AL and also between BJP and BNP. I think Congress prefers AL to BNP and BJP prefers BNP to AL. Who knows BJP may be waiting for themselves and BNP to get back the power and then solve some unsettled issues after the elections in India and Bangladesh. Both BNP and BJP are rightist parties. Most of the prominent Hindu members have RSS connection while BNP is openly supportive of Jamaat and recently Hefazat.  

From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2013 2:59 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona]
 
BJP is a known hatemonger institution of India who enthusiastically take action against non-Hindu minorities inside India and non-Hindu neighbors. We have seen this trend for decades. It is sad to watch when a well known personality like Dr. Sen speaks up against such hateful organization, we see members here are blaming Dr. Sen instead of the culprit BJP. Historically it was back up by murderous organization like RSS (One of it's member murdered Ghandiji), so I am just calling spade a spade. This is not based on emotion but rock solid data!! Here is latest from their anti-Bangladesh hateful action (Remember BD is the most trusted neighbor of India) ...... Shalom! ========================================================================================================================================================
BJP has indicated it may not support the Constitution amendment bill the Indian government is placing in the Parliament to give effect to the 2011 Indo-Bangladesh land boundary agreement.
 
Indian Foreign Minister Salman Khurshid has been persuading all opposition parties including the BJP to support the bill in "national interests to take forward improving relations with Bangladesh".

Khurshid has tried to impress on the opposition lawmakers and leaders that Bangladesh is now India's most friendly and important neighbour — a country that Indians trust the most, as revealed in a recent survey commissioned by the Hindu newspaper and the CNN-IBN channel.

But BJP leader Yashwant Sinha, a former Finance Minister of the country, has told journalists that it was not possible for his party to support the bill because the "government has not taken all stakeholders into confidence".

"The government has ruined our relations with all neighbours," he said.

Sinha belongs to the hardline BJP faction led by Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi who is backed by the party's national president Rajnath Singh.

But BJP moderates like former Foreign Minister Jaswant Singh, leader in Upper House Arun Jaitley and Sushma Swaraj as well as former Deputy Prime Minister L K Advani seems to be in favour of the deal.

The bill will be placed by the government in the ongoing monsoon session of the Parliament.

"We are into last ditch efforts to convince the BJP to get this through," said an official of the ministry of external affairs.

But Delhi's political circles are less than optimistic.


-----Original Message----- From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Aug 6, 2013 12:07 pm Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মন্তব্য
 
Actually, I believe people who are really secular do make the fair judgments vis-a-vis BJP, BNP and Awami League. Of course, the Islamist hate-mongers and the pseudo-secular idiots and hateful minds of the sub-continent talk against BJP while BNP and Awami League are OK with them.

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2013 9:38 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মন্তব্য
 
It is highly probable that Modi may have been passive in response to the riot. If passivity on the part of Modi is unpardonable crime, then Khaleda Zia and Sheikh Hasina committed similar unpardonable crimes. They had been passive during all communal violence in Bangladesh during their tenures. In fact, Awami League government recently ordered stand down instructions to the local law and order administration during the communal violence on Buddhist community at Hazarihat, Chittagong. When religious minorities were begging for protection, Police officer-in-charge said his hands are tied. No one is asking for heads in these cases? 

Are you sure you are all making fair judgment here.

Jiten Roy

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2013 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মন্তব্যের জন্য ক্ষমা চাইবেন না অমর্ত্য [1 Attachment]
 
"How do we justify Modi's instruction to the police officer" - that looks like a fiction.  Debate has continued since the riot on the role of Modi in it and nobody has proven his involvement.  For details please read the attachment.
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 4:47 AM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
How do we justify Modi's instruction to the police officer: Let the people vent their anger (ref. a recent post in mukto-mona). How do we justify Vajpayee's annoyance with Modi: how long have I to watch the bloodshed? Forget about active imvolvement. Even all such passivity on the part of a seating CM is unpardonable crime. 

Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 4, 2013, at 1:02 AM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Involvement of Modi in Gujrat riots has never been proved.  One may look into the myth of Gujrat Riots in http://www.gujaratriots.com/.  In a land where H. S. Suhrawardy is adored as a prince of democracy(Ganatantrer Barputra), Modi should be treated as an angel, albeit of a Hindu variety.
On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 4:16 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
While I do not have a problem with Amartya Sen's comments regarding Chandam Mitra's demand for him to return the Bharat Ratna because he did not want Narendra Modi to be the Prime Minister of India, I probably would have handled the issue differently. If I were in Sen's shoes, I probably would have said something like, "my honorability has nothing to do with what Modi or BJP was, and I am ignoring Mitra's demand."

As for India's leaders influencing what goes on in Bangladesh, Modi could not be effective in secularizing Bangladesh; because he does not have a secular credential. However, talking theoretically, if India had no-nonsense secular people running the country, Bangladesh would have felt a lot more pressure to get its acts together; Bangladeshi Hindus would not have been going to India because of being victims of Muslim hatred and atrocities at their homeland of centuries.

SuBain

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মন্তব্যের জন্য ক্ষমা চাইবেন না অমর্ত্য

 
"Did Modi call that a "National Shame", Dr. Roy?"

My comment was not against Sen's remark about Modi, Dr. Bain. I said that - he has the right to do so.
My comment was, rather, on the subject of returning the Bharat Ratna medal and the tile to Vajpayee. This award has nothing to do with Modi.

Indian people know better who should be their Prime Minister. I am not in tune with their situations.
Whether Modi or someone else becomes the PM, things will not change much for Bangladesh. In fact, 2001 carnage on Hindus in Bangladesh happened during the BJP rule in India; India did not come forward to save the religious minorities in Bangladesh. So, what could be different if they come to power again? That's why - I don't care who becomes the PM.

As for our relatives in India, I am sure - nothing will change for them during another BJP tenure. They have been there before.

Thanks.

Jiten Roy


From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মন্তব্যের জন্য ক্ষমা চাইবেন না অমর্ত্য

 
Looks like Dr. Roy has missed the justification that I have provided in the last post below as to why "I also think that it was OK for Professor Sen to say that he would return it if Atal Bihari Vajpayee asked it back." Clearly, Dr. Roy has failed to think what he was talking about below about Narendra Modi. Professor Sen was not allergic to the award from Prime Minister Vajpayee, who was respectable enough to term the Gujarat Riots a "National Shame." Did Modi call that a "National Shame", Dr. Roy? Did Modi as the Chief Minister of Gujarat take the responsibility of the failure of his administration to stop the riots? Never mind who started it and how many were killed from what religious community, it was Modi's job to provide safety and security for all citizens of Gujarat.

As for the sorry state of affairs in Bangladesh, I agree with Dr. Roy.

As for India, while I am not a voter there, I do care about what kind of people leads that country. In spite of Dr. Roy's statement below, I have no doubt that he also cares about what kind of people leads India. Both he and I have too many friends and relatives in India, both of us know that the leaders of India can influence what happens in Bangladesh, our beloved motherland. Obviously, we probably have some differences in philosophies, and what the two of us want India to be might be somewhat different.

Sukhamaya Bain 

========================================
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মন্তব্যের জন্য ক্ষমা চাইবেন না অমর্ত্য

 
"I also think that it was OK for Professor Sen to say that he would return it if Atal Bihari Vajpayee asked it back."

May I know what the justification behind this comment is?
Let me ask you also - why didn't he decline to receive the medal and the title from Atal Bihari Vajpei if he was so allergic to this award?

As I said before, not supporting Modi is his legitimate right. But, being an academician and a Nobel Laureate, he should know better. The riot in Gujrat was the result of a statewide spontaneous mob outbreak from both sides, which resulted 31,000 arrests throughout the state, 80% were Hindus. Total 140 killed in Police firing, 80 of them were Hindus. In the first 3 days 100 were killed, 70 were Hindus. Let's remember, Indian communal riots are never one-sided. Prime Minister termed this disaster as a "National Shame." One BJP State Minister of Modi government has been hanged recently. Do you still think Modi and Indian government did not do enough? I believe - Modi is a victim of propaganda. Modi is banned from entry to USA as a result of propaganda campaign. Some people even compared him as Golam Azam of India. So on and so forth …

Educated people should not get carried away by prop



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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
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