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Monday, November 4, 2013

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Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism



Sankar Ray: "Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Mao, Pol Pot etc had indulged in misinterpretation of Marx. What they dished out as Maxism was a brazen distortion of Marx and Engels."

The exact Marxism will not be applied anywhere, only - some parts will be introduced.  American society has adopted some of those principles. European societies have much more of them, which may be already affecting their economic growth; it has been sluggish long before American economic recession started.
This is how I see the whole picture: Too much of good stuff is bad for you.

Jiten Roy




On Monday, November 4, 2013 6:46 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
"Multiculturalism hinders success for many new immigrants, and keeps them in the underclass longer than should be" - J. Roy

Instead of considering the financial status of new immigrants, look at the old immigrants who had been living in the west for centuries.  See what fraction of them are destitute and you would see the necessity of socialism.  By the way, what is the need of social security?  Ain't it socialism in another name?


On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 6:46 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Mr. Q. Rahman,

I hope you read Dr. A. Rahman's post to find the answer to your question -  how multiculturalism leads to food stamp.

Multiculturalism hinders success for many new immigrants, and keeps them in the underclass longer than should be. This underclass people use food stamps to survive. this group is growing. As I said before - white Americans used to consider accepting food stamps as personal failure, many still do. So, most of the food stamp recipients are new immigrants.  The story is the same in Canada, Europe, and elsewhere.

I also think - this could be a conspiracy to keep immigrants in the underclass as long as possible. Now a day, many schools provide alternate languages for primary education .  What a Spanish kid will do after receiving primary education in Spanish; he/she will fall back in the class.

My previous neighbor was a Chinese gentleman, who came to America as a young boy, spent ~60 years of his life  in America, but couldn't speak English.  He did not feel the need to learn English. I have hundreds of stories like this.

Jiten Roy





On Sunday, November 3, 2013 4:45 PM, ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com> wrote:
 
I had been reading comments from various members of the mukto-mona on the umbrella issue 'Leninism is no Marxism', which then narrowed down to 'how multiculturalism caused Americans to accept food stamps?'

I may add my two cents in the debate. 

I agree with Dr Jiten Roy when he showed the problem of clinging on to home culture too strongly while living in a foreign country. My experience in England over the last 43 years is about the same. If someone comes from a different background (Asian or African or Mexican or whatever; whether Muslim or Hindu or Buddhist or any other religious persuasion) and fails to adjust to or assimilate with the host community, then that individual is quite likely to be rejected by the community. Of course, some period for adjustment is always available, but when he rejects the adjustment to the host community, he is in trouble.

Dr Jiten Roy mentioned about a Hindu with a 'trilok' and 'jopomala' and his short stay in America. I knew a Muslim (a Pakistani) who was recruited as a graduate trainee in a high profile defence related nuclear organisation. Within a year he started growing beard and then he stopped talking to female members of the staff on grounds of religious prohibition. He even refused to be interviewed by his female boss (in a separate room) as his religion does not allow an unrelated woman with a man in a closed room! Needless to say he did not last very long after that. Where did he go? He is now in the scrap heap of unemployment with a number of his children and he now needs food voucher (as food stamp in America). A couple of years ago a distance relation of ours, who happened to live in the same city, came to see us. We were shocked to see that the lady and four of her daughters (all grossly overweight) wore hijab, the youngest daughter was only 7 years old! The family survives on social security. When I asked the lady why did they were hijab, her reply was that they must retain their culture! (I did not tell her that hijab was not Bengali or even Indian culture). 

Europe is much more tolerant than America. But even in France, Hijab is banned in government offices. There are innumerable instances when someone sticks to his or her culture or language or identity and rejects all other identities, he or she is voluntarily dissociating from the society and economic rejection is bound to follow. Muslims (Bangladeshi, Pakistani, Somalian and so forth) are in the lead of taking voluntary isolation, insisting on specific or concocted culture, and thereby become the underclass of the society and inevitably ending up in the social security. I wrote an article only a few days ago (the URL is given below) where I showed that there is a direct correlation between singular religious identity and economic poor performance.

- A Rahman


From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 3 November 2013, 13:58
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism

 
Member Roy,

Enjoyed reading your life experience in America and found myself in agreement with your point of view.

However I feel my question was left unanswered. How did multiculturalism "Caused" Americans to accept food stamps?

Also educate us about "American multiculturalism". 

Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 2, 2013 5:16 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism

 
My observation is from my own life experiences. I do not usually form opinion based on other peoples' opinions. I am not here to convince anyone, either. My observation of American Society for 30+ years leads me to conclude that one of the reasons, among many others, for the growth of economic underclass in America is multiculturalism.

In 1989, there was a vacancy for a junior level technician in our section at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. An Indian guy applied. When he saw me, he came up to me and asked me to pursue his case. I talk to him for a while, and looked at his CV. I was convinced that he will be a very good technician.  I know that - section head likes me, so I thought I will plead for him. I went to my boss and said - this guy has excellent experiences in the field. Can we hire him? He said - he will look at his CV, and let me know.

After a month, my boss called me. He said - "Jiten, I agree he has good experiences; but, I am not sure he will be a good match with other."  When the final decision was made - he was not selected. At that point something hit me. I realized that – no matter how good you are - first you have to get hired, and, to get hired, you need to be likeable to others in the section. That's a very important factor to be successful in whatever you do.

There was another Indian post-doc scientist, used to work in the Rockefeller University Lab. He used to live in the same building with us. Every morning I used to see him going to work. He would put on "Trilok" and used to recite God's name holding a small bag containing a bead-chain (Jopomala). I thought - he must have applied from India, and was hired based on his CV. Then I heard - he left for India at the end of his contract.
 
Being immigrant creates multitudes of obstacles in our ways. We often do not know how to relate and talk to other American colleagues, so we all can feel at home. This is important for being successful in here.
The bottom line is we need to be acceptable to others wherever we work. This means, we have to give up certain characteristics and adopt some new characteristics. This is how we become a part of the   melting-pot. This is valid only for the first generation of immigrants; second generation will learn on their own.

Jiten Roy



On Saturday, November 2, 2013 12:19 PM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 
I am living in the American multi-culturalism for 30 years, you are not.

>>>>>>>> Didn't you say that multi-culturism causing "Americans" to accept food stamp (..)? So what gives (If you do not understand the question,kindly ask your kids and they will translate it for you) ?

  So, don't you dare to teach me about American multi-culturalism

>>>>>>> OK. Please teach us about it. When did it start?

Shalom!

-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 1, 2013 9:37 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism

 


I know you hate America, but you should know -
it was not America's fault that you had to leave for a third world country. I am living in the American multi-culturalism for 30 years, you are not.  So, don't you dare to teach me about American multi-culturalism; I can learn from my life experiences, which you can't. Your arrogance knows no bound. I cannot get down to your level.








On Friday, November 1, 2013 9:52 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Having the dream of growing reach is not essentially American.  It is universal.  Those who initiated Boston Tea Party wanted their fare share in the British Parliament with a larger Government.  The Republican "Tea Party" men today are trying to fool the American people by pretending to be the defenders of independence.  You may be convinced about their ideology and join the losers.  That is your choice.

The cause of deterioration of American Society is wrongly diagnosed by you.  It is their dependence on the Military-Industrial complex or for that matter dependence on Big corporate culture.  May be you or your children would witness Marx's prediction come true in the great land called United States of America.

How dare you preach against multiculturalism?  How did U. S. A. come into present shape.  Read history and find out.  Return the Spanish territory to its rightful owners.  English was made the Official Language after it won in the Senate by one vote against the German.  What language do your family members speak?  Bangla or Banglish?


On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 4:44 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

"that society is now the envy of the rest of the world." - it was probably so about five decades ago.  Presently, in the quality of public life index, the Americans are not in the top ten list. – K. Das

Do you know how American society got deteriorated so such? Recent immigrants have rejected the American melting-pot idealism; they want to keep their own culture and identity. Many recent immigrants prefer to use their own language, and, therefore, mix with their own community only; many of them do not even bother to learn English. They are the new backward class.
 
Multiculturalism has changed the social psyche. Millions of people now believe they deserve government benefits; this was not the case a few decades ago. People used to feel ashamed to accept any government help. Very few would accept food stamps. Now, about 100 million people receive food stamp; people even hide their actual income to seek food stamp. It's not a taboo any longer. This explains the lower standard of living.
 
"And lastly, if you have no problem with tea party mentality, you are suffering from severe identity crisis.  You have come to that land hundreds of years after that incident. " – K. Das
 
I do not know what identity crisis has to do with Tea-Party mentality. Tea-Party mentality means smaller government mentality; I support that. That's all. What that has to do with identity crisis.
 
What is one's identity, anyway? Are you trying to say – someone coming from a poor country should not have American dreams? Have you heard the story of Steve Jobs, the founder of the Apple Empire? He was dirt poor in his early life; Bill Gates did not start from a rich background either. These people show how – anybody can think rich and be rich; it has nothing to do with identity. 
 
You must be suffering from the depressive Marxist mentality?
 
 
Jiten Roy


On Thursday, October 31, 2013 9:07 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
"If you think this change will install full-fledged Marxist Socialism in the Industrial Societies, you could be wrong." - I have never thought so, or preached it.  Marxist Socialism never was implemented in any country.  Some Orwellian pigs came to power preaching it and could not sustain in it lacking popular participation.

"that society is now the envy of the rest of the world." - it was probably so about five decades ago.  Presently, in the quality of public life index, the Americans are not in the top ten list.

And lastly, if you have no problem with tea party mentality, you are suffering from severe identity crisis.  You have come to that land hundreds of years after that incident.  Though that incident occurred to demand reservation in the British Parliament, the ultra right of the Republicans are antidemocratic in every bit of their action and, lacking foresight, actually digging their own grave.


On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 5:31 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Dr. Das,

Of course I can see some socialist principles are creeping into the Industrial Societies. As I told before - society needs to balance these two extreme systems. If you think this change will install full-fledged Marxist Socialism in the Industrial Societies, you could be wrong. Don't forget so quickly, Capitalism is also creeping into the Socialist Russian and Chinese societies.
 
Yes, thousands of lives were lost in the American Civil War to build a greater American Society, and that society is now the envy of the rest of the world. So, the lives lost in American Civil war is not in vein, unlike the lives lost for installing the Socialism around the world, which ultimately crumbled on it's own weight.

The Tea-Party mentality is needed to maintain the check & balance between the Capitalist and Marxist systems. So, I have no problem with it.


Thanks.


Jiten Roy




On Thursday, October 31, 2013 6:49 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
"Mr. Ray, Marx wrote - socialism will not come without revolution to the extent of destruction and dissolution of the society."- Citation please.

World has seen no more violent a change than the American Civil War.  What is your opinion about it Dr. Roy?  Besides, have you heard about Fabian Socialism?  Don't you think, it has already creeped in most of the Industrial Societies?  There is no turning back.  With your tea party mindset of Republican Party variety, your observation about socialism is totally wrong.


On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 4:55 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Mr. Ray said:
Marx wrote in a polemic in 1844, "Without revolution socialism cannot be viable. It needs this political act to the extent that it needs destruction and dissolution."
 
World has seen and known revolutions in Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, etc. causing destruction and dissolution of existing societies in the name of installing socialism around the world. In the process – at least hundred million lives were lost. After all these destruction and death, the socialist empire crumbled, without counter-revolution by the capitalist system; no life was lost; no destruction and dissolution of anything needed either; socialism crumbled on its own weight. That's how it's supposed to be. Yet, Mr. Ray still finds prospect of real Marxist socialism in this day and age.
 
Mr. Ray, Marx wrote - socialism will not come without revolution to the extent of destruction and dissolution of the society. Are you suggesting people will go for another revolution to install real Marxist society, much like the previous ones, and millions of people will sacrifice lives again? If not, what are we going to do with Marxism today?
 
Jiten Roy


On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 6:31 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
"The point is to remember Marx's motto, taken from Descartes: De omnibus dubitandum (doubt everything)." - Descartes might have got the idea from Buddhist dictum which says, "Doubt everything even if I told you."


On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 9:05 AM, Sankar Kumar Ray <sankarray62@rediffmail.com> wrote:
 
I thought I would refrain myself from the debate about whether Marxism is valid or not.Sadly enough, most of the participants to whom I am too very grateful assume that Marxism has failed. This is a grave misjudgement. From Plekhanov to Lenin-Trotsky, from Stalin to Mao, and from Gramsci-Lucas to Althusser one finds distortion of Marx. Marxism is yet to be applied , except partially in Paris Commune and Spanish Revolution (1930s).

I am giving a link to another piece of mine in Daily Times (must be read critically)

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2013\09\23\story_23-9-2013_pg3_5.

But I want to draw attention of Mukto-mona members to MEGA, the historic project of publishing Marx and Engels, insulated from 'partyocracy. I wrote an introductory on MEGA in kafila.org, but I would suggest all to read
Publishing  Marx and  Engels  after  1989: The fate of the MEGA

Lastly, my knowledge of Marx and Marxism (Leninism etc) is journalistic, not at all profound.
Sankar Ray

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[mukto-mona] Mission elimination of Bangalee intelligentsia



massacre

The body of Editor Selina Parvin of Shilalipi at the Rayerbazar killing field discovered right after the Liberation War was over. Photo: File

Mission elimination of Bangalee intelligentsia

Inam Ahmed


General Niazi's strategy of "stretched out fingers rolling back into an iron fist" to hammer the enemy was falling apart as the Indian army and Muktibahini were racing fast towards Dhaka in December, bypassing his army outposts. The Pakistan general was now looking at the horror of defeat as Indian MIGs and Hunters battered Dhaka airport to dysfunction. His much-awaited help from the north (China) and the west (America) did not materialise. So, the Pakistan commander was mostly sulking in his bunker.

It was then that something most sinister was afoot, which actually defined Pakistan's war on Bangladesh in history in a very unique way. A white microbus smeared with mud and camouflaged with tree branches was moving around the deserted Dhaka streets. Curfew was clamped and so the roads were empty.
Masked young men appeared at the residences of selected intellectuals including teachers, litterateurs, journalists and professionals. Chowdhury Mueen Uddin and Ashrafuzzaman Khan were among the angels of death who whisked away the intel lectuals in the microbus between December 13 and 15. They were in a hurry because everybody knew Dhaka was going to fall anytime. Indian army were already at Amin Bazar, just beyond Mirpur. Paratroopers had landed in Tangail and were advancing. Dhaka was in a pincer grip.
These angels of death belonged to a most dreaded force called Al-Badr, an auxiliary force that the Pakistan army had created in the fashion of Hitler's most feared SS unit. Drawn from the Jamaat-e-Islami's student wing Islami Chhatra Sangha, which later turned into Islami Chhatra Shibir, the Al-Badr members were highly indoctrinated with the ideal of saving an Islamic Pakistan at any cost. They were the most ruthless force ever created by the Pakistanis.
The intellectuals were herded into the death camp at Physical Training Institute in Mohammadpur. On the night of December 15, the Al-Badr members came with iron rods, rifles and bayonets. The torture began. The intellectuals were beaten ruthlessly. Their skulls got bashed. Their eyes were gouged out. Their bodies perforated with bayonets.
Then they were dragged to Rayerbazar behind the training institute on the night of December 15 and were one by one finished off.
A day later, the killing field was discovered. The men and women with hands tied behind and blindfolded were lying dead in the bricks, mud and water.
This exposed to the world the most vicious face of Pakistan and its strategy to eliminate the Bangalees. They started the unjust war with genocide, killing innocent, unarmed people. And when they had realised their game was over, they adopted a scorched-earth policy — if we cannot win, we will cripple the Bangalee nation. And the best way to do it was by eliminating their intelligentsia.
The Pakistanis knew if the new nation in waiting could be made devoid of its best children, it would render the country rudderless. That would make the new nation weak and fledgling. The dream for which Bangladesh was created could never come true.
Nothing could be more sinister than some young men like Mueen Uddin and Ashrafuzzaman, both of them journalists at that time, sitting with the Pakistan high-ups and drawing up a hit list with that evil design.
The Times reported on December 23, 1971, that a group of senior Pakistan army officers and their civilian counterparts had met in the city's Presidential residence. They put together the names of 250 people to be arrested and killed, including the cream of Dhaka's professional circles not already liquidated.
A diary of Mueen Uddin was later seized that revealed the hit list.
The vengeance with which the Pakistanis executed this plan is unparalleled in history. Scorched-earth policy has been followed since the days war was invented. But even Hitler's atrocity in Ukraine as the Nazis retreated from Russian attack pales in comparison.
Mishuk Munier, who as a grade seven student last saw his litterateur father Munier Chowdhury being escorted out by the Badr group, remembered this last scene forever. From the balcony of their house, all he could do was to watch that dreadful, unbearable sight of separation and agony. Munier's body was never found.
Shumon Zahid, son of journalist Selina Parvin, will always hear her mother's last words: "Shumon, have your lunch. I will come back soon." Selina's body, mutilated, was found on December 17.
Today, the two main killers of that gang, Mueen and Ashraf, are sitting in the UK and the USA respectively. The UK could try Mueen under the Geneva Convention signed in 1957. But that did not happen.
But at least some solace could be found in yesterday's verdict.

Last Modified: 10 hours ago

http://www.thedailystar.net/beta2/news/mission-elimination-of-bangalee-intelligentsia/

http://www.bangladeshchronicle.net/index.php/2013/11/mission-elimination-of-bangalee-intelligentsia/

বুদ্ধিজীবী হত্যাকারী মুঈনকে দেশে আসার সুযোগ করে দেয়ায় 

জিয়া-এরশাদকে আদালতের ধিক্কার

http://bangla.bdnews24.com/bangladesh/article694249.bdnews


বুদ্ধিজীবী হত্যাকারী মুঈন ও আশরাফের ফাঁসির আদেশ

কুন্তল রায় ও মোছাব্বের হোসেন | আপডেট: ১৩:৩৯, নভেম্বর ০৩, ২০১৩

মুঈনুদ্দীন ও আশরাফুজ্জামান খানএকাত্তরে মুক্তিযুদ্ধকালে ঘর থেকে তুলে নিয়ে জাতির শ্রেষ্ঠ সন্তানখ্যাত ১৮ জন বুদ্ধিজীবীকে হত্যার দায়ে মানবতাবিরোধী অপরাধের মামলায় পলাতক আলবদর নেতা মুঈনুদ্দীন ও আশরাফুজ্জামান খানের ফাঁসির আদেশ হয়েছে। ..................

http://www.prothom-alo.com/bangladesh/article/64474/মুঈনুদ্দীন_ও_আশরাফুজ্জামানের_ফাঁসির_আদেশ

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শহীদ শিক্ষাবিদের (বিশ্ববিদ্যালয় ছাড়া) মোট সংখ্যা = ৯৬৮
শহীদ বিশ্ববিদ্যালয়ের শিক্ষক সংখ্যা = ২১
শহীদ শিক্ষাবিদের মোট সংখ্যা = ৯৮৯

বুদ্ধিজীবী হত্যা; ২৫ মার্চ থেকে ১৪ ডিসেম্বর, ১৯৭১ - ঢাকা বিশ্ববিদ্যালয়


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আলবদর ১৯৭১  - ১        
রবিবার, ২৬ আগষ্ট ২০১২, ১১ ভাদ্র ১৪১৯ 
আলবদর ১৯৭১ - 
সোমবার, ২৭ আগষ্ট ২০১২, ১২ ভাদ্র ১৪১৯
আলবদর ১৯৭১ - 
মঙ্গলবার, ২৮ আগষ্ট ২০১২, ১৩ ভাদ্র ১৪১৯
আলবদর ১৯৭১ - ৪
বুধবার, ২৯ আগষ্ট ২০১২, ১৪ ভাদ্র ১৪১৯
আলবদর ১৯৭১ - ৫ 
বৃহস্পতিবার, ৩০ আগষ্ট ২০১২, ১৫ ভাদ্র ১৪১৯
আলবদর ১৯৭১ -    
শুক্রবার, ৩১ আগষ্ট ২০১২, ১৬ ভাদ্র ১৪১৯
আলবদর ১৯৭১  - 
শনিবার, ১ সেপ্টেম্বর ২০১২, ১৭ ভাদ্র ১৪১৯
  আলবদর ১৯৭১ 

http://www.dailyjanakantha.com/news_view.php?nc=16&dd=2012-09-02&ni=107855 
রবিবার, ২ সেপ্টেম্বর ২০১২, ১৮ ভাদ্র ১৪১৯
আলবদর ১৯৭১ - ৯

সোমবার, ৩ সেপ্টেম্বর ২০১২, ১৯ ভাদ্র ১৪১৯
আলবদর ১৯৭১ - ১০

মঙ্গলবার, ৪ সেপ্টেম্বর ২০১২, ২০ ভাদ্র ১৪১৯
আলবদর ১৯৭১ - ১১
বুধবার, ৫ সেপ্টেম্বর ২০১২, ২১ ভাদ্র ১৪১৯
আলবদর ১৯৭১ -১২
শুক্রবার, ৭ সেপ্টেম্বর ২০১২, ২৩ ভাদ্র ১৪১৯
আলবদর ১৯৭১ -১৩ : আলবদর ১৯৭১ ॥ বুদ্ধিজীবী হত্যা ... ..
শনিবার, ৮ সেপ্টেম্বর ২০১২, ২৪ ভাদ্র ১৪১৯
আলবদর ১৯৭১ -১৪



রবিবার, ৯ সেপ্টেম্বর ২০১২, ২৫ ভাদ্র ১৪১৯
আলবদর ১৯৭১ - ১৫ 


সোমবার, ১০ সেপ্টেম্বর ২০১২, ২৬ ভাদ্র ১৪১৯
আলবদর ১৯৭১ - ১৬ (শেষাংশ)
মঙ্গলবার, ১১ সেপ্টেম্বর ২০১২, ২৭ ভাদ্র ১৪১৯

Related:
বুদ্ধিজীবী হত্যা; ২৫ মার্চ থেকে ১৪ ডিসেম্বর, ১৯৭১ - ঢাকা বিশ্ববিদ্যালয়
http://www.somewhereinblog.net/blog/onujibblog/28882040



মহিলা মুক্তি গ্রুপ


৭১-এর যুদ্ধাপরাধ ও জামায়াতে ইসলামী

২৮ শে জানুয়ারি, ২০১১ সকাল ৯:৪৬

৭১ জামায়াতে ইসলামীর বর্বরতার আরেকটি নৃশংস উদ্যোগ হচ্ছে হিটলারের গেস্টাপো বাহিনীর কায়দায় আলবদর, আলশামস বাহিনী গঠন, বুদ্ধিজীবী হত্যার নীল নকশা প্রণয়ন এবং জামায়াতের ঘাতকদের দ্বারা সুপরিকল্পিতভাবে বিশিষ্ট বুদ্ধিজীবী ও পেশাজীবীদের হত্যা
 এই ভূখন্ডকে পাকিস্তানের অংশে পরিণত করার ষড়যন্ত্র করেন।



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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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