[mukto-mona] Re: Is ZkaaT mandatory?

We read many verses in the Quran that ask Muslims to give zakat and establish their regular prayers. The word [zakat] appears with the word [prayer].

 

Are we supposed to believe that some time in Islam, prayer was mandatory, but the zakat was not?

 

Giving zakat was not mandated by Allah, but Abu Bakr made it mandatory!!.

 

[And who was saying Islam is very easy and simple religion?]

 

Agreed whole heartedly!!

 

Mohammad Asghar

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 9/16/2009 11:36:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, turkman@sbcglobal.net writes:

It was not but then the 1st Caliph Hzt. Abu Bakr had made it mandatory and since then most Mollaas believe its mandatory since they are the main Receivers of it or its better for them to keep it mandatory. In Pakistan Gen. Ziaul Haq had imposed ZkaaT on all Savings Accounts and it still is being collected. Government hands it over to Mollaas and they eat and distribute amongst their own people since nobody besides them and their people can be found to be Deserving Poor, ha, ha. Pakistanis are so pure Moslim that ... . *  ... tens of millions of Soonni Moslims had submitted Affedavits signed by two Shiyahs saying this person is a Shiyah to submit to the bank because according Pak ZkaaT Law, it can not be deducted from Savings Accounts of Shiyahs though none of those 'Fake Shiyah' Soonnis had converted to Shiyah Islam in practice. So, Pakistan is a strange country. Census Bureau says about 15% of population is Shiyah but Bank Records show 40% is Shiyah. Allaho Akbar ...! * ... a few Soonni Moslims leave money in a Bank in Pakistan on the dates that ZkaaT is supposed to be deducted. They deposit the money back after that date passes. Allaho Akbar ...!  Pakistan ZinDaabaaD ...! And who was saying Islam is very easy and simple religion?   ---------------- --- On Wed, 9/16/09, MSA40@aol.com <MSA40@aol.com> wrote: [ ... 'Zkaat' is not a Tax since its voluntary. Only Asher, 'Khoms' and Protection Money from Non Moslims are mandatory in Islamic Economical System?]   I thought Zakat, like saying prayer and performing hajj etc., was compulsory for all the eligible Muslims! Mohammad Asghar     In a message dated 9/16/2009 4:21:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jimmybug@rocketmail.com writes: Nopes, farting is quite permanent................... --- On Wed, 9/16/09, S Turkman <turkman@sbcglobal.net> wrote: My comments are inserted below. ------------------ --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Ahsan Siddiqui <ahsanglobal@yahoo.com> wrote: Sir Turkman.....I think you took it personally. Let me explain you the ingredients of Islamic Model Economic System. 1.  How can it be called Islamic Banking, when there's no evidence that Commercial Banking ever existed in the Days of Prophet of Islam or in any Islamic Empire before invention of Paper Money? Reply: Here is the point. You think commercial banking came into existence since the invention of paper money. On the other hand we are concern about the functions of commercially advancing loans on usury for the purpose of earning interest. That's the function that you can also find even in the time of Jesus Criest (Hazrat Essa A.S). Referring to the past, Jesus Criest (Hazrat Essa A.S) become violent only 2 times in his entire life. On both occasions, when he found the peoples are lending money for the purpose of earning extra, over and above amount in addition of principal amount. Be became violent, he drag them out from the place and called them DEN OF THIEVES. Let me know, is there any difference b/w the functions of present commercial banks and than individual who were engaged with same kind of activities. We are concerned with the functions of forwarding commercial loans that were present even even in Jesus Criest (Hazrat Essa A.S) time. We are not concerned what ever name you assigned them. Some time you called them CITI , some time you called them SCB. BUt the fact is commercial lending of loans were there. . TURKMAN: The Question is, why are you calling your modified Non Islamic Banking, Islamic Banking? ----------------  2.  How can you call it Islamic, when Islamic Banks are charging Interest in the name of Usury Fee and no Usury Fee is permitted in Islam? Reply: Correct yourself Sir. Usury charged on forwarded principal money. Islamic banks don't forward loans, they buy assets, like machinery and equipment and forward the same on rent. Here the ownership of that assets stay with the bank, not the lessee. In conventional banking ownership of the assets stay with the lessee. There are further differences also which can be explained if required. . TURKMAN: Its another way of lending money in a secure way to collect Interest and call it Profit as I see it. ----------------- 3. If Islamic Banking is based on real Value of Assets, how come it keeps raising the Value of those Assets every year? Reply: By purchasing more real value assets. Simple..:-) . TURKMAN: What real value assets are you buying by collecting more rent from me every year according to Market Rent for House I financed through you in USA? ----------------- 4. If its not based on Paper Currency, in what Denomination an Islamic Bank accepts Deposits and lends money? Reply:Islamic banks don't lends money at all. You have to clear you thoughts. . TURKMAN: Buying my house to Rent me and making me think that I have bought is nothing but deception then. Why Islamic Banks in USA advertise to 'get financed your house through us' then? ------------------ What is Islamic System if not Capitalism since ... Reply: Islamic economic system never based on Capitalism. Never. Let me know, was there stock exchanges in the time of Rasool-e-Akram Sallallaho Aleheh Wasallam? Was there money market exists than? Was there any issuance of EURO bonds? Was there any money exchangers exists like modern time? So, in principal, the main pillars of Capitalism wasn't there. No paper money, no stock exchanges, no speculation, no future / forward buying of goods, etc etc. So, in principal, Capitalism was never part of Islamic Economic System. Capitalism ever exists in Democratic society...they both go together...in hand with hand. Capitalism represents the money system, where democracy presents the political model.They both travel together. Democracy is the most suitable form of politics that support conventional banking, in fact they both support each other. On the other hand, Islamic model system based on CONSULTING or more precisely, MUSHAWE'RAT where a ameer or leader is selected based on certain religious, political, military,administrative and spiritual power vested in him. . TURKMAN: You do not know, what Capitalism mean because your above statement means that there was no Capitalism in the world before or after Islam until Stock Exchanges etc were formed. Go look in Encyclopedia to learn, what Capitalism means ...! ---------------- . * ... 'Zkaat' is not a Tax since its voluntary. Only Asher, 'Khoms' and Protection Money from Non Moslims are mandatory in Islamic Economical System? Reply: These are the ingredients of Islamic Economic Model systen * ... there's no Property or Asset Tax? Reply: Only on acquired / purchased lands is applicable. . TURKMAN: Please quote, which book Shriyah says this since I have never read this all my life ...! ------------------ * ... there's no Progressive Income Tax and people above Poverty Level from just low class Rich to Multi Billionaires pay same percentage of Tax on Gold and as 'Khoms'? Reply: There is no progressive income tax in Islam. There is a tax on saving and that's the difference b/w Islamic economic model and capitalism. . TURKMAN: Where the hell it says in any Shiryah Book that there's Tax on Savings besides on above certain quantity of Gold or Silver? ----------------- * ... Slavery is permitted in Islam? Reply: Not at all, but it's allowed in Capitalism by forwarding huge loans to nations and making nations disable in for paying back the same. An absolute example of slavery. . TURKMAN: Could you please tell me in which Capitalist Country Slavery is legal? ---------------- * ... you can have as many Concubines as you want without getting married to them Your father can have sex with all of them without your permission and whoever you permit can have sex with your Concubines? Reply: Does it relates to Economic modeling? If correct me if I am wrong. * ... you can rape Slave Girl that one of your Wives had gotten from her father? Reply: Once again, is the above question relates to Islamic Economic system. I am afraid it's not. If you are running out of points, let me know,Inshallah I will provide you with some more points. . You are full of false Mollaa Propaganda again as usual instead of talking sense, Ahsan Reply: Thanks...Sir...Many many thanks for your kind words. I think you words are not proven so I am ignoring them. regards Ahsan . TURKMAN: Crude Capitalism does not exist in any advanced countries of the world because Progressive Incom Tax, Asset Tax, Tax on Savings Accounts above certain limits, Property Tax, Social Security, Welfare and in most of these countries, Socialized Medecine. Crudest form of Capitalism exists in Moslim Countries, where no Socialistic Reforms explained here have been implemented. Islamic System itself is partially Socialistic because Bounty used to be divided amongst the citizen equally and all Moslims were supposed to be equal. All this has nothing to do with Islamic Banking that we were discussing, though. From: S Turkman <turkman@sbcglobal.net> Banking had started in 8th Century? Could you give me names of just a couple of Banks of 8th Century, please? You are saying, Commercial Banking had started before Paper Currency, which is nothing but your ignorance.   So, people lending-out money to each other charging or not charging Interest were really Banks and were doing Banking and they had their Banks all around the world transferring Money internationally and whole world's Financial System was run by these few individuals, right?   Is it not true that according to Shriyah any money received on the top of Principal is Interest and Islamic Banks can receive that extra money, Islamically calling it their Profit, right? Please show me in Qoraan or Hadith ....? You wrote, "Islamic banking model is based on real values assets, not on paper currency". . QUESTIONS: . 1.  How can it be called Islamic Banking, when there's no evidence that Commercial Banking ever existed in the Days of Prophet of Islam or in any Islamic Empire before invention of Paper Money? 2.  How can you call it Islamic, when Islamic Banks are charging Interest in the name of Usury Fee and no Usury Fee is permitted in Islam? 3. If Islamic Banking is based on real Value of Assets, how come it keeps raising the Value of those Assets every year? 4. If its not based on Paper Currency, in what Denomination an Islamic Bank accepts Deposits and lends money? . What is Islamic System if not Capitalism since ... . * ... 'Zkaat' is not a Tax since its voluntary. Only Asher, 'Khoms' and Protection Money from Non Moslims are mandatory in Islamic Economical System? * ... there's no Property or Asset Tax? * ... there's no Progressive Income Tax and people above Poverty Level from just low class Rich to Multi Billionaires pay same percentage of Tax on Gold and as 'Khoms'? * ... Slavery is permitted in Islam? * ... you can have as many Concubines as you want without getting married to them Your father can have sex with all of them without your permission and whoever you permit can have sex with your Concubines? * ... you can rape Slave Girl that one of your Wives had gotten from her father?  . You are full of false Mollaa Propaganda again as usual instead of talking sense, Ahsan. ----------------------   --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Ahsan Siddiqui <ahsanglobal@yahoo.com> wrote: not in agreement on some points... that's true that Banking wasn't not taken the INSTITUTIONALIZED form since the 8th century but the function of banking was there even before,in western society...i.e money and goods were forwarded / advanced as loans and taken back with increased amount (forwarded principal + increased amount). As far as Islamic Banking system is concerned, it has different qualities as compared to Conventional banking system. Islamic banking model is based on real values assets, not on paper currency. The question, why Islamic countries are not forwarding with the good banking model...? The answer is that the Islamic banking model is emerging as a good substitute of conventional banking. It's under developing stage and more research is going on with them. Hopefully,Inshallah, it would be able to fulfill all human wants, with out greed. One must to study 1st and deliver the verdict. regards Ahsan From: S Turkman turkman@sbcglobal.net   There were no Banks in the world until Paper Currency was invented and the world went in to present Inflationary System of Economics. There was no Paper Currency in 7th Century and until Paper Currency System, Gold was Money. Gold Standard was Deflationary System. Purchasing Power of Money used to increase and now it keeps decreasing according to ratio of new Paper Currency printed in a country and in general worldwide. . In Gold Standard Days, you didn't need Economists to figure-out anything since price of everything adjusted or reduced naturally because limited Supply of Money and constant increase in World Population. . Because there was no need of Banks, no Islamic Banking System was explained in Qoraan or Hadith. Present Islamic Banking is a copy of Western Banking System but it fools Moslims by charges a lot more Interest in the name of Usury Fee to them and this is why regular American Banks have started giving Islamic Loans also. Islamic Banking is fraud in name of Islam. ------------ --------  --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Trishool <lalhgehi@yahoo. com> wrote: Right, right. Islamic Banking is so perfect that wherever there are Moslims even Non Moslim Banks have started Islamic Mortgage Loan Business in USA. IF THIS ISLAMIC SYSTEM IS PRACTICAL, AND PERFECT, WHY ALL MUSLIM COUNTRIES, DO NOT IMPLEMENT THEIR OWN, SO CALLED PERFECT SYSTEM, AND LEAD THE WORLD, WITH THEIR INNOVATIVE, BETTER ISLAMIC BANKING SYSTEM, WHICH THEY ARE PROUD OF.?!! Trishool --- On Fri, 9/11/09, S Turkman <turkman@sbcglobal. net> wrote: Right, right. Islamic Banking is so perfect that wherever there are Moslims even Non Moslim Banks have started Islamic Mortgage Loan Business in USA. Non Moslims are just jealous of Islam and its Shriyah Law despite that they see, how much it has advanced Iran in last 30 years. Have not Iranians become .... * ... the Richest People on Earth? * ... the most Literate? * ... Scientifically and Technologically the most advanced of the world? * ... the top Inventors and Innovators with almost all the Patents in the world? ; Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Pakistan have also become like Iran and now Indonesia and Malaysia are about to become that advanced also. Human Rights and Civil Liberties situation of all Moslim Countries is far better than in the West. Allaho Akbar ...! Eat your hearts out Islam Haters, at war with Islam and Moslims ...! ------------ --------- --- --- On Fri, 9/11/09, MSA40@aol.com <MSA40@aol.com> wrote: According to Muslims, both capitalism and socialism are not good for the humans. The best system for all mankind is Islamic social and monetary systems, which can be practiced through Sharia.   According to them, Sharia worked great when Muslims ruled over one-third of the earth for over 1200 years. During this period, all people, irrespective of their caste and creed, were happy and prospered under the patronage of Islam and its Caliphs. Science and other branches of education reached their zenith, the result of which, can be seen in the inventions and discoveries the non-Muslims have already made, or are making today. They could not have done what they have done so far had the Muslims of the past not laid down the foundation of Science and other sources of knowledge during their heydays.   So I suggest that the entire world should adopt Sharia Law to change their lives forever. I am glad that some non-Muslim countries have already started experimenting with this system and they are getting good result.   Islamic Banking is becoming very popular among the non-Muslims. That is why many Western Banks have already changed, or are changing, the mode of their operations, especially in the Muslim countries. Following their examples, Western Governments are also looking into the feasibility or possibility of introducing Islamic Banking System in their own countries.   I am hoping that the day is not far off when all the countries of the world would practice Sharia and Islamic Banking, thus alleviating the sufferings and the misfortunes of billions of humans on earth.   Mohammad Asghar   In a message dated 9/10/2009 9:32:55 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mdayyub@yahoo. co.uk writes: Marxism, as a theory and practicable task and goal for many states and its people, holding it in the hands in millions all over the world like a torch to quell the darkness of the poverty from their lives, marched years together with a hope for the liberation from all the problems they have in their lives for the socialism, now the majority of the people have been desisted it and do not like even to utter it in their daily lives in recent years after the failures in USSR, in CHINA. As a result the USA has emerged the single strongest state to rule the world in its own way what it thinks fit on the different names, world peace or war on terror. At the same time the USA itself is now under economic depression and striving to recover from recession and going to loose its legacy in coming years in the hands of new states in the same way of open market and global reforms. The same kind of the treatment what it has given to the other states in its past history after its independence, is going to receive in the same way. Now it has already started such wounds to its body to receive from others. The history has so many such instances of rise and decline of the dynasties in the world from the biblical period to the present conditions. So here one question is in the minds of millions of the people globally that the capitalism is the only stable state of condition of the world states irrespective of considering their development to the level of capitalist societies the present developing countries. And has it no further progress of the social states from capitalism to socialism? Is the socialism dead? Is capitalism permanent state of social condition of state? The capitalism may have three or four types in its execution and in its administration in the world. And some people are still waging the wars in their states in some specific pockets on the hope that they achieve the socialism and their people will get some relief from their problems through the philosophy of Marxism and its other extended philosophies of Leninism and Maoism. So are these philosophies still have the worth and validity as philosophies in these days to achieve the greatest task of socialism? Where have the mistakes in application of them to the present societies? Whether in practice or in its theory? So let us start the process of re-examination of Marxism so as to save it from the dying state and before it has been erased from the list of living philosophies of the world, without considering the criticisms from the same circles who would call it revisionism. Ayub mohammed Moderator Messages in this topic (2) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic   .

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